Hands-on with the Canon EOS R5

David Ramos: Only someone being paid by Canon would tell folks to just blindly hand-over their money without waiting for the camera to be reviewed & tested.

You know the initial batch of the Canon 1DX III cameras had some nasty defects. Some of their other models also suffered from manufacturing problems. I don't understand how you can be so dishonest on this point.

> going to the get a great product.

Really? Canon has already acknowledged that the R5 has overheating problems. Canon representatives gave evasive answers to questions regarding how the R5 would handle the high heat generated by 8K recording up until very recently, when they finally were forced to publicly admit that there is a problem. The R5 may well turn out to be a good camera, but it doesn't sound like it will be a great one.

And yet , in about a year from now, you will be able to get a grey market R5 with a 30% discount.

They said the same thing about the R and lately the HK importers have been selling them cheap cheap cheap.

I know it's not impressive by today's standards with limited live view and no on sensor focusing but the 5Dm3 was the best autofocusing camera outside of the sports bodies at it's release. The D800 was only better in terms of resolution. I'd agree that later Nikon's had better "3D tracking" AF but that was not around back in the 5Dm3 days of 2012.

Maybe 2012 it was already stalling compared to things like HD video in DSLR's (2008), 1080P in a stills camera (2009), >20MP sensors (2007) but I feel like 2012 is a good line for the end of their heyday. Maybe the R5 brings a new one.

> At the moment and for the forseeable future I have no interest in 8k
> in fact I rarely use 4k.

Why spend $4,000 on an R5 if you are not interested in what makes it cost so much ? You can save a ton of money - heck, if you just want high-res stills then buy the Sony A7R II - it has close to the same resolution - 42 megapixels - also IBIS and even 4K video and is currently priced at only $1,398 ! You could almost buy three of these for the price of one R5 !

One could live with short runtime in 8k - if the bread and
butter format would perform good.

But Full HD only up to 60fps and no RAW - adds insult to injury.

Throw in 20 minute until self destruct, and say goodbye to this
camera for serious video work.

This is a great stills camera, hands down probably one of the best.

It is too expensive for being just a stills camera, and the real world
hard overheat limit makes it ridiculous as a video source.

Canceled my preorder. Same money buys me a Blackmagic URSA
that can do 300 fps in FULL HD and RAW in Full HD/4k.

@mikegt
I disagree on that the R5 cost is associated with 8K video. I think it is fairly well placed to where the camera belongs as still, if the AF is as good as hyped. This camera can easily best the 1DXiii in most regards and as such the price is imo right.

Not if you use one of the 4k settings with unlimited recording time.

Happy Dad. That is the question not an answer.

Happy Dad: There is no 4K mode on the R5 that has unlimited record time. The maximum according to Canon for ALL 4K record modes is 29 minutes and 30 seconds.

Also, why spend $4,000 on an R5 just to shoot 4K ? There are much cheaper solutions available.

The 4k 30p mode that isn't created from 8k does not over heat and can be shot in 30 minute segments all day.
The manual says "unlimited" record time, but in some regions there may be that 30 minute limit.

Happy Dad: I think you are missing the point here. All the video modes that make the R5 potentially worth $4,000, such as 8K, 4K from 8K, Raw, etc. are all heat limited. If you are going to shoot 4K 30p then it makes no sense to buy a R5; there are dramatically cheaper options such as for example the Sony A7R II which has close to the same number of megapixels (42), IBIS, 4K video and costs only $1,398 !

The A7R4 does not have 10 bit video.
It does not have 4:2:2 video
It does not have a 400-800Mb/s bit rate.
All without overheating like the R5

It cant shoot 20 fps
It doesn't have 8 stop IBIS

And obviously it cannot shoot 8k at all
It cant shoot 4k 120p for 15 minutes which equals 1 hour and 15 minutes of slow motion video.
It cant even shoot 4k 60p

Happy Dad you know what the a7r4 can do?

Record 4k video to TWO cards at max length, unlimited video time without overheating.

Doesn't matter if you can enter the race with your super fast race car, it matters if you can FINISH.

Happy Dad: You keep missing the point by a country mile.

First, I was referring to the older A7R II, not the much more expensive IV version. The A7R II does 4:2:0 4K at 100 Mbps internally; or 4:2:2 4K to an external recorder. IBIS is at 5 stops, continuous shooting at 5 fps. Video is 8-bit, not 10.

It can't do 8K or 4:2:2 internally like the R5, but here is the massive point you chose to miss: If you have to avoid using 8K and the other high data rate options to avoid over-heating the R5, then you might as well save a ton of money and get a cheaper camera. The old Sony A7R II does 4K 30p, the 42 megapixel sensor is widely considered to be very good and you can buy a new one right now for only one-third the price of an R5 ($1,398) !

Only the R5 and R6 can Record 4k 10 bit video to TWO cards at max length, unlimited video time without overheating.
No Sony can do that. None.

Happy Dad: Apparently you will be missing the point for the rest of your life.

So the R5 and R6 have unlimited 4k recording in modes that are better than any 4k mode found in any Sony camera. And most Sony cameras have documented over heating issues with mush lesser video modes.

And the R5 can record 8k raw continuously until a 512GB memory card until the card fills at around 20 minutes.
That's something no other ILC can do.
8k - no Sony can do to
Raw video- no Sony can do it.
Not even for 1 second.

Now add to this - no Sony ILC has 8 stop IBIS. No Sony with 25 or more MP can shoot 11 FPS let alone 20.

I could keep going but I doubt you'll ever get the point.

How much does it cost to record 10 seconds of raw video on a Sony. Not even 8k, how about 4k?

Sour grapes. It just burning you up inside and I am loving it.

@Happy Dad

"It's just burning you up inside'

Unfortunate turn of phrase.

@Denimage, rubber....., mikegt
‘And I rarely use that’
Kinda sums up the Sony faithful as represented here (rather than the millions of keen users out taking photos somewhere) - spec sheet warriors distraught that a rival has a (much) superior spec sheet........great to watch 😊

Name me one reasonable, logical or artistic, creative reason why anyone needs 8k.

Just one.

Also I am much more a stills shooter and intrigued by the thought of extracting decent stills from 8k video?? We will see.......

"Look I don't disagree - but it IS a great marketing message for all that....."

No. It isn't IMO. Only gear heads care about this.

There seems to be no correlation with the output of photographers I respect and the quality of their work, and their likely interest in this camera.

We are at "peak camera" in my opinion. Canon will sell this stuff ( and their overpriced lenses ) to people willing to drop $20,000 on an R5 and a suite of lenses. But there aren't many of them.

Give it a while and sales will collapse. Discounts will be huge. Canon just make too many cameras ( they always do ) and end up dumping them on the market.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will simply ignore this camera even exists.

I am bundle of laughs today aren't I ? But such is my indifference to this hyped camera. I fail to see how it can improve the work of any photographer.

People would be better off spending the money on an experience, or a tutorial. Now THAT would be an investment.

The same argument against 8K was made against 4K. The exact same.

It's been said many times here and DPR had an article on it, but what do you gain by going for more resolution in video, in this case 8K, even if one doesn't have an 8K TV:
1) More cropping options. This can actually save money and eliminate the need for additional cameras for different views like closeups.
2) More information means more latitude for other edits like color grading.
3) More information means a downsampled 8K video, let's say downsampled to 4K or HD, will look better than if originally taken in those 4K or HD.
4) Better for stills extraction. This 8K camera will yield about a 35MP still...plenty. 4K yields an 8MP still, HD yields a 2MP still. So 8K opens up some interesting possibilities about a convergence of video and stills. In the R5, in essence you have a camera that can take 35MP stills at 30fps. That's pretty amazing.

TRU: "The same argument against 8K was made against 4K. The exact same. "
It is sort of funny isn't it :-)
The same people will argue FOR 8k (or maybe 16k) as soon as Sony gets it :-)

@Daft Punk (good name)
Not sure exactly what your point is - this is (for better or worse) a gear head forum - don’t expect too much art appreciation here....! My question is - why are you here (meant in a nice way) and what are you looking for if you think this new camera is so much hot air?

@Vivid1

//It is sort of funny isn't it :-)
The same people will argue FOR 8k (or maybe 16k) as soon as Sony gets it :-)//

No, they won't. 8K is a cinema format, but even so most Hollywood movies are not shot on 8K, and it will never become a consumer format. It simply doesn't look much more detailed than 4K and the processing and storage overheads are enormous.

The general public has shown that it has no interest in hi-res formats - Sales of DVDs outstrip Blu Ray and DVD is half the resolution of HD! People will buy 8K TVs but they will watch DVDs on them like they do now on their 4K TVs. Streamed video will still mostly be HD, which is the sweet spot in terms of bandwidth, quality and data capping.

Saying 8K will become standard like 4K is like saying the 62MP sensor in the A7rIV will become standard instead of 24mp.

@EthanP99

No. The R5 only shoots C-Log, not C-Log2 and C-Log3, so the DR is artificially capped in video.

It’s amazing how expert all these Sony users (never Nikon users - respect) have become on the new CANON R5 - this demonstrates the seismic shift in their world view that this groundbreaking cam represents. Amusing...!

@blackcoffee17

Why offer internal 10bit 4:2:2 and then cap the DR with C-Log 1 only? That doesn't make any sense.

Ok good! I guess having c log 3 with that extra data will shorten the useful recording time to 10 mins then before overheat.

The state of this:

//@Rubber....
New news - firmware update coming (CanonWatch reports) that will allow C-Log 3. You must be very happy 😁 Please make sure you tell everyone now......👍//

I answer a question about YOUR brand and you mock me? How come YOU can't answer the question? You're the Canon user. Embarrassing.

we keep devising these terms, pixel peepers, fanboyz and now spec-warriors to mitigate the shortcomings. but let it be, whatever concerns you got about a camera let it be open and let other be.
I personally have two concerns with this new offering, even if my first ever digital camera was a canon ixus that I loved and my first dslr was 300d, both bought new with my very hard earned cash at that time.
now this is the first canon offering in last 15 years that interests me, but if i'm not happy with its limitation, let me express is openly... don't give me names

The card fills up before any overheating with 8k raw, so it's not an issue.
It seems to last longer than many Sony cameras before overheating so it seems overblown.

Sony owners found they can double and triple shooting times by moving the LCD away from the body, opening the battery door, etc.

I've never shot 1 scene longer than 10 minutes let alone 20. It makes for boring video.

I can't wait to watch 8k video on my 8k Sony TV.

Thats like saying the car runs out of gas before the big fireball.

Its going to happen.

Do you own a Sony?
You sound very experienced with overheating. 😀

It's fun to joke here, but if the camera wasn't the best today, you would not be posting.
It's your desperation that proves to everyone how great it is.
Again if you were not terrified and were no so worried you wouldn't post.

So long. Enjoy your new Canon.

Happy dad, now read your comment again but this time about Sony.

Sony been helpful all the Sony overheating with so many of their cameras made people creative. There are a lot of good solutions they've found that work on any camera.

The issue is overblown. Some Sonys overheat in half the time and it wasn't a big deal.

I'll be fine with 20 minutes of 8k raw. I shoot mostly 1 minute clips anyway.

"The issue is overblown. Some Sonys overheat in half the time and it wasn't a big deal."

We sony users always knew that. Now could you go and educate yourself, TRU, Arun-H and many more trolls who trolled sony users about it.

PS: BTW I heard on rumour mill that the next sony camera won't shut down recording until your memory card fills up. Thats like rubbing salt in wounds.

Guys guys - no need to worry about the remote chance of overheating in the 45MP 8K (🤗) R5 - you can wait for the 12MP Sony A7SIII with special super cooling that can shoot 4K for months - the eyepiece has got more MP than the sensor 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣😂😂(according to SAR...)

Recent years Sony cameras don't overheat!

That "dabble" will cost you several hundred dollars for a CFExpress card.

I am just super happy to have a worthy Canon mirrorless for my large L glass for sports since I got rid o my 1DX last summer before it was going to be unsellable (and sensor DR underwhelming). Adapting Sony was hit and miss.
However I am excited about the 8K raw and even more the 4K/120

Having stabilization on the 28-70 f2 would be amazing!!!! Hoping it could do it for the Zeiss 135mm adapted with AF confirmation. Not efficient, I know :/ If the 1DX3 is anything to go by, it will have class leading DR with close to ISO invariance from 400 and up - with 45MP. That would be very good for astro work - less blown stars with better colour. Get one of these beasts - I would get it converted to full spectrum straight up! Using the EF to RF adaptor with filter slot would make this cam unstoppable for me!!!

Its a PREVIEW

"Gagging orders" are a legal action - I doubt Canon had courts issue orders to all the reviewers... what they use is embargo of information either to a certain date or on certain topics (and in this case they used both). Considering there is no full production R5 available that's not unreasonable that they would preclude commentary on the aspects they know are not final. The R6 is production and they have established no such limits. I don't think there is a need to see evil in action here.

@Johans81 and FBoneOne, thanks for replying to me. I have no doubt dpreview are writing as fast as they can but I wanted clarification that they could report anything (like faults). If not then I wouldn't find it interesting to read the review. I see some of you have stated it's a pre-production camera. Canon will be selling the camera at the end of this month so my guess is that production has already started. That's why I am guessing the cameras given to reviewers were production cameras. If not then Canon should have given full production camera to reviewers. Has there ever been a case that reviewers were given a prototype camera that had faults but those faults were addressed during productions?

More information here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWDqKEh8SkM

About gagging orders my understanding is that the media refers to non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) as gagging to hush up faults with the company. I used a similar meaning here but maybe it doesn't exist in a dictionary.

As it is reviewers get reviews out way too fast in general anyway...it takes a while to really get to now a new piece of equipment, esp. one with all the new stuff in these models.

If you look at really good reviews of pro level equipment, they usually take several weeks or even months of heavy usage to complete.

But then it's very common that initial hands-on are down with pre production equipment. And given the current COVID-19 situation, remember that in past years these reviewers would have been taken on a press junket to some central location and given access to equipment, scenery to shoot, etc.

So no deep dark conspiracy. Just the normal way of doing stuff along with some limitations imposed by the virus.

Yeah change a few setting like going to 1080p 😂

No, just turn off oversampling. And they say shooting raw also doesn't have an issue (but does fill up a card)

To put it in perspective, the A7siii which is a very good and popular video camera, shoots 4k 8 bit 4:2:0 video with no oversampling. The R5 can shoot 10 bit 4:2:2 with a higher bit rate without overheating without 8k over sampling.
Rumors are the A7Siii also will not over sample. So who knows.

So you like line skipped 4k? 😁 Ok.

I've seen great videography with a 5dm3 even a 60d.. I'm sure this camera IQ will not be an issue...

Generally, Canon video doesn't have any problems with IQ, it was a golden standard few years ago for mirrorless and DSLR with its dual pixel. Then it was leapfrogged by Sony and Nikon in video AF, good to see Canon back.

"it was a golden standard few years"

Yes this is why GH5 was used all over for videos.

GH5 was used not because of its AF, but because it had more choices in video formats and was more flexible. Even then, Canon's AF was much better than GH5 DFD

Ha the gold standard that no one cared about. Funny. King with no kingdom.

Several academy award winning films were shot with Canon DSLRs. They are very popular.

It's not smart to argue over anything now. The testers who were able to shoot for 20-30 minutes were using pre production firmware. EOS HD never held an R5 and their document was for even older pre production firmware.

Wait for the final version. Discussion now is meanless.

I'll take 8K for up to 20 minutes vs no 8K at all.

Remember when the 5d Mark II came out, which revolutionized video, it too had upper limits due to overheating. But it still changed the world of video because it advanced the tech.

As for Andrew Reid of EOSHD: he's very thorough but he reminds me of Lloyd Chambers, only for video. He finds fault with just about everything and expresses himself in a very hyperbolic manner to attract views. If you go by them you buy almost nothing. It's funny because right now they both apparently have settled on the same camera, the Fuji GFX100 because it's the highest resolution with larger sensor and of course it's not too expensive for what it is. BTW the Fuji is a fantastic camera in its own right. Also I don't believe he has actually used the camera yet.

So I respect him, he knows his stuff, but he does have his own limitations, like all reviewers.

FYI, when not over sampling this camera does 2x2 pixel binning just like Sony's latest a7 camera's best 4k mode. The difference is this camera saves a 10 bit video file with a much higher bit rate with more color information and which is easier for editing.
This mode has an unlimited record time.

Unless you really (really) need the limited 8K, there are a few camera's that are great all rounders. There are probably more than 5 40MP plus camera's shooting 10FPS and 4K.

Don't get sucked into a hype vortex!

I don't know of any other camera that can do stills at 20 fps with full AF/AE at 45 MP, and include some cool AI in the AF as well, like animal eye AF.

No other higher megapixel stills camera can come close to this in the AF department. It's kind of a hybrid of the Sony a7RIV and the Sony a9II, combining the best of both but adding an even more intelligent AF system and better video capabilities, and of course the RF lens system.

@Thoughts R Us

Could you name a camera that had a 42 MP, 4K video, 12FPS, have IBIS and great AF back in 2016? Sony have done it before but I didn't see this over-hype back then.

And NO, it is not a hybrid of the A9II and A7RIV. There are no reviews yet on the performance of the camera at all. How did you assume that? spec sheets?

Until there are some unbiased real reviews your claims are fault. Otherwise you are just a clear biased who hates Sony (clearly from your trolling posts).

A99ii(2016) and D850(2017) were probably the camera's that started this party, High MP and decent frame rates with impressive autofocus. A7riii added to it (2017) and A7riV (2019) each camera had its strengths but its clear that the R6 is simply following along in this style.
Both the A99ii and D850 camera's were the last of the line and its interesting to see Canon starting out like this. It's desperation in a shrinking market and I expect at least 8 years before its successor will be named.

I'm all for competition in the market but if you think the rest of us are going to get excited for video features we don't want and a few extra FPS you are going to be sadly disappointed.

I'm certain R5 is the camera Canon needed to stop the bleed of customers to other brands after a lackluster decade of mediocre bodies. I'm sure it will sell well, but it'll be

A bit strange to specifically aim this criticism at this particular Canon camera, since practically every digital camera can record video.

Video capability is not something you can just remove from a camera. It's built into the sensor, the processor and the firmware, all of which would have to be redesigned. This would most likely make both cameras more expensive not cheaper. There's a reason why none of the other companies have gone down this route.

The R5 looks to be one amazing stills camera for landscape and action. Judging by the excellent DR and high ISO of the 1DX3, the R5 looks like it could be the best all round camera for stills photography out there. Can't wait to have this cam in my kit!

An R5 R with a scaled up high megapixel FF version of the M6ii apsc sensor without an AA filter, same body and DIGIC processor, average video specs and priced lower than the R5 would be a more attractive proposition for many stills-only photographers.

Yep, I high res - say 80 MP would be awesome! That would be my main landscape cam. Then convert an R5 to full spectrum for astro and infrared (which can be filtered to use in normal mode). I don't really care so much about video, but the 8K frame grabs could be interesting for niche applications like focus stacking and stacking applications.

@pentaust
so you are complaining for paying under $4000 for a FF camera which delivers 45MP at 12 fps with a deep buffer, IBIS and what seems to be industry leading AF in a strong weather sealed body?

The way to look at it is this:
The Canon R5 can record 8K RAW for about 20 minutes. That is the limitation.
All other mirrorless cameras can record 8K RAW for zero minutes. That is their limitation. BTW if rumors are true that will be the upcoming Sony will not have 8K either...so the same zero minute limitation.

As for what zxaar writes: well, if anyone is waiting for the "perfect" camera they will wait forever. No device is perfect. There are engineering tradeoffs and by definition expectations increase over time based on what is actually on the market. It's kind of like the very definition of perfect ends up being something that is not currently available...always the next thing.

Let's also face it: If someone is too perfectionistic they will accomplish nothing, esp. with the arts like photography/video.

OTOH, if one wants a great camera full of innovation, then the R5 will fit that requirement very nicely.

"As for what zxaar writes: well, if anyone is waiting for the "perfect" camera they will wait forever."

that would be you and your friends who have unreal standards when it comes to sony and no standards when it comes to canon.

I am only telling what i read 500 times about heating and tilt screen as to how it was not going 180 deg and how it was unacceptable.

Your standards.

Overheating is very different with Sony. When aSony overheated you were done. No pictures. No video. Nothing.
Google this and see for yourself.

In the review I saw on the Canon you still have most functionality. Still photos still available for example.

Apples to Oranges.

I don't find either to be a deal breaker honestly.

So after you record 20 mins of video you suddenly forced to yake stills only? What a weird way to do things if you only want video 😂

Well, if you want slow and small, you have a phone in your pocket.

Oh it works for bird in flights? Or are you making things up, like always...

Why not watch the videos?

Here's another video, showing more birds in flight...I've marked it to start at the appropriate point, but the entire video is worth watching:

https://youtu.be/wf9VqQW0zqI?t=77

Bottom line: this is a real advancement. Many users will love it.

whoa!!

Truly impressive AF-C performance! Approaching perfection... Very well done Canon.

Regards,

Tibor

TRU it will be interesting to see though given some of the commentary about the baked in NR in the RAWs on the 1DXIII review. Seems like canon has been tweaking their algorithms. Anyway most of the star eater discussion has subsided as I believe most realize it was overblown to begin with. It was more a complaint that Sony was cooking the RAWs and they weren’t really raw anymore. And pretty much everyone is doing that nowadays.

I always thought the discussion on "cooking the RAWs" to be a bit overblown.

By definition, there is no such thing as "pure data." All RAW files are still the result of choices that engineers have made in the imaging pipeline. No way to eliminate that.

Heck, even our eyes and brains do all sorts of neat tricks to create the image.

So there's no such thing as a "pure image." RAWs simply represent more data to work with, not some sort of unrealistic "perfect data."

There are always ways to mitigate build up of heat (heat sinks, fans, heat pipes etc,) problem is, they would make the camera more bulky and expensive.

Probably if Canon wanted to, they could have thermally and physically designed the camera to allow an add-on "heat dissipater" of some sort, but that would have pushed up the cost and likely bulk.

Hahaha...it's so funny hearing people talk about these recording limits due to natural physical limits on a small camera. But how many minutes can any other MILC do with 8K RAW? Yes, zero. Yes, the recording limit for all other cameras in this class in 8K is zero. That new Sony coming out...has a limit. It is zero.

There is no such thing as a "perfect" camera or perfect anything device, esp. as expecations change. There are always engineering trade offs.

There are however great cameras and this is a great camera, with enough good and little enough bad to make it eminently usable and enjoyable for many.

The upcoming Sony A7S3 has no recording limit for all video modes it supports. Do it properly or don't do it at all.

Yeah and it has also only 12mp, so it's almost useless as a general purpouse camera.
At this point a real videocamera is better.