BTW, you bring up a good point, which begs the old cliche: money talks, the rest just walks (kind of a sanitized version).

People expose their true feelings with what they buy and spend their own hard earned money on; the rest is just fluff and talk.

I saw a video recently by Hugh Brownstone where he gave his awards for the year. He gave the A7RIV his camera of the year award...but in the video, he highly praised the Leica SL2, which he bought...and while speaking about the Sony, noted it's mediocre ergonomics and build quality and frustrating menu system, and admitted he did not buy one. He basically just listed the spec sheet and I get the feeling he just gave it his award because he figured that was what he was supposed to do based on specs.

But in reality his own buying decision revealed all we need to know about his true opinion.

@thoughtsrus

Personal preference vs what is the best for most people are often two very different things.

I own the a7r4 and the Fuji X-T3 but I also have used the d850, a9, and most of the other flagship bodies from the various brands and as far as a full package max spec camera the a7riv is the best I’ve ever used in regards to a creative tool. Is it my favorite to use? No. I also really love shooting with Leica because for my personal photography it excel in very specific areas. But if I just could have one camera the song would be it because it can do it all and exceptionally well.

Fridge?????
Have you never heard of Uber eats?
Are you still living in the 1900s???
LOL!

You just listed a handful of minor differences. And your point is exactly what?

I for example don't give a damn about continuous autofocus. It's just not what I need for my type of photography. I don't give a damn about 100 MPix (yikes!); the 24 MPix that I have are already way more than I need.

The differences in today's cameras in the same league are so minor that it's really hard to explain them to an outsider. Simple test: Try explaining to your mother what exactly the differences that you just listed mean and why it makes perfect sense to spend more money on this camera than on a less expensive competitor. If she is anything like my mother, she will just give you a skeptical look that translates to "you are nuts". ;-)

Stefan is correct. To the vast majority of people all cameras are more than they need or ever could use. The differences shrink and the differentiating factors become less important.

That is why for most people I advocate choosing the camera they enjoy using the most; don't worry about the other stuff. Choose what you will use. The camera you enjoy using is the one you will use the most and hence develop more as a photographer, which counts far more than these esoteric tech points.

It's funny how too many just discount the human factors as if all people are kind of like the machines they use, and they can just plug into them and use them all equally well.

The tech has been so well taken care of, that we have the luxury of being at a stage when design, ergonomics, joy of use matter the most.

"To the vast majority of people all cameras are more than they need or ever could use." - what you say if you have never had a camera with IBIS and pushed it to its limits in low light.

I do not agree that "To the vast majority of people all cameras" constitutes a "careful state"ment.

And I'm still not sure you fully appreciate the benefits of image stabilisation in normal, everyday situations - consider dreary days with kit lenses, perhaps even indoors, and perhaps you'll see my point.

While the physical ergonomics of the A7R IV aren't quite as good as the Nikon Z or Canon R, they are still pretty good (IMO). The thing is, the menu mess and the touch functionality, I suspect could both be resolved with a firmware update. We shouldn't have to wait 3 yrs for the next body. Unfortunately, if history is an indicator, Sony has no interest in doing so.

dr jim - Sure, the cameras aren't *that* bad, but my experience with them is that I've found them uncomfortable to operate for long periods, and far more "fiddly" than Nikon, Canon or Panasonic MILCs. A great shame, as they are so advanced technically, and have class-leading performance.

I believe it's just something to do with pride getting in the way of common sense. Sony just don't want to accept that the a7/a9 series cameras are too cramped and have awful menus.

They are unwilling to change what they blindly consider to be a perfect design. After all, the whole original selling point of the camera was that it was tiny and lightweight, and they can't go back on that. Just a few minor tweaks to placate reviewers, but no substantial improvement.

I can't think of any other reason why Sony should so stubbornly stick to ergonomics and menus that everyone except the most hardened Sony fanpeople have been criticising for years.

@entoman

Have you handled the A7rIV yet? I think you should re-sleeve the ergonomics record until you do.

What RD is trying to say is "This is how MILC ergos are. They are the best. If you don't like it, stick with DSLRs."

How'd i do, RD? Did i nail it? 😜

RubberDials - No, not yet. To be brutally honest I'm scared to, as I might be tempted to buy it, and start switching to Sony glass!

But as you know I'm currently using Canon DSLRs and I've got a fairly sizeable collection of Canon L glass, not to mention tubes, converters and several Canon dedicated flashguns.

So it would not only be a very expensive switch, but it would take me some time to adapt from the "Canon way" to the "Sony way" of doing things. I don't adapt quickly, unfortunately.

So I'm sure you'd agree that I'd be wiser to wait until Canon launch (or at least announce) the mirrorless replacements for the 5DS and 5DMkiv, before I make a decision.

I'd feel pretty sick if I bought into Sony, and then a couple of months later Canon announced what (for me) would be the perfect camera. I think there's a very good chance indeed that will happen early next year, and so long as I don't fall for an a7Riv, that's probably what I'll buy....

All I'm asking is maybe 2-3 mm extra width, buttons like the mk IV, and a front dial. Is that so terrible? The x-t3 is 12mm wider, 26mm taller, and 36 gm heavier. Do you hear Fuji shooters complaining that it's too big? The Z50 is 6mm wider, 27mm taller.

@entoman

You should try it, I think you'll like it. It's a bigger camera - the grip's angled away from the body and is much larger, The front dial is angled upwards and is easier to turn. Several of the buttons depress with better tactility.

As for feeling sick when Canon announce your perfect camera - how can you still believe this will happen? Their programme of releasing halo f1.2 lenses in an era where a third of a stop light gathering power is irrelevant shows you that they have no technology to compete with Sony. And the R didn't come out of nowhere, Canon has been making mirrorless cameras for only two years less than Sony.

I've tried the A7RIV and though it's better than the other Sony Alpha bodies before it, it still has a ways to go. The EOS R, to me, is still the best designed mirrorless in terms of handling and feel overall. But YMMV.

The Sony menu's are still atrocious, and the lack of a touchscreen to navigate through them only makes them worse.

Sony should hire Jony Ive's new design firm and let him start from scratch and show them how to design a camera that's pleasing to use.

Sony lacks the photographic heritage of a firm like Canon or Nikon which has been figuring out how to design cameras for decades, and that shows.

@Thoughts R Us

//Sony lacks the photographic heritage of a firm like Canon or Nikon which has been figuring out how to design cameras for decades, and that shows.//

Sony invented the paradigm of the modern FF mirrorless camera. Not Nikon, not Canon. Decades of heritage has seen them scrabbling to catch up, not leading.

And actually Sony excels both in electronics and traditional photographic engineering - for example the shutter in the A7rIII/IV is tested to 500, 000 actuations - more than any Nikon or Canon camera ever made.

You know absolutely nothing about Sony's menus. I've asked you countless times to give three examples of why they are 'atrocious' and three examples of where other brands are better. You never reply because you're just repeating something you read.

And as for the R being 'best designed' - it doesn't have a joystick, a back dial or any custom buttons. It's very poorly specced in terms of direct controls.

RubberDials - The EOS-R doesn't appeal to me, as it is in several ways inferior to Canon's own DSLRs.

But I have to correct your statement that it doesn't have any custom buttons. It actually has several - the AEL, AF-ON and Mfn buttons for example can all be remapped to other functions, as they can on Canon DSLRs.

Also the EOS-R has a (admittedly awkward) function bar that can be remapped for multiple swipe or press functions.

I agree totally that the lack of AF joystick and back dial were a serious misjudgement by Canon, but will apparently be incorporated into future models, as will IBIS and twin card slots.

@RD: Camera design and history did not start with mirrorless FF. Canon and Nikon have decades more experience than Sony actually designing cameras for photographers. That experience doesn’t go out of the window for mirrorless.

Already Canon and Nikon have better designed mirrorless bodies than Sony. Sony is consistently rated poorly on design and usability.

@entoman

The R doesn't have any custom buttons. I'm not talking about remapping existing function buttons.

@Thoughts R Us

//Camera design and history did not start with mirrorless FF. Canon and Nikon have decades more experience than Sony actually designing cameras for photographers.//

So why aren't their cameras better then?

//Already Canon and Nikon have better designed mirrorless bodies than Sony.//

The M5 and Z50 are better designs than the various A6xxx bodies. The M5 is almost an exact copy of an A7 body.

//Sony is consistently rated poorly on design and usability.//

In your head perhaps, not in the real world.

@RD: Canon and Nikon cameras are better than Sony in terms of ergonomics and usability.

You claim the M5 is an almost exact copy of an A7 body: except the M5 is designed to work with smaller lenses, and so what works for an EOS M body doesn't necessarily translate into working for an A7 body with larger heavier lenses. Also the M5 has far better menus and fancy this, a touchscreen LCD, which no Sony alpha body has.

And I'm sorry but the overall consensus, even among many reviewers favorable to Sony, is that Sony usability is poor. Heck, I know a guy who uses Sony and even he admits he doesn't really like the experience of using it all that much.

I'm a bit like Entoman in that I am invested in Canon and have been for many years and I'm so familiar with them that I can operate them effortlessly, that makes a change to another brand for some minor features that I wont use very unlikely. To Rubberdials although I agree with TRU regarding the Sony ergonomics, partly because I'm so used to Canons layouts, there is no denying Sony cameras are technological marvels and their autofocus is class leading, the thing is they are not that much better that it would make any tangible difference to my photography. Thats where we are with cameras today, the quality is so good across all brands that theres not much need to upgrade let alone swap brands.

Miaow...

@Christian Unger , Christian C

You would think this site contained no reviews of the cameras it praised. Why don't you read the 11 page A7rIV review and then you'll have the answer to your questions?

In the 'Pros' section the A7rIV was described as having 'class leading detail' in the 4K video and on the video page they said this:

"As with the a7R Mark III, the new camera shoots more detailed footage in its cropped mode than from the sub-sampled full-width region. However, it appears this sampling method has changed, as the new camera appears less prone to aliasing than its predecessor. This puts it ahead of the full-frame output from the high res models from Nikon and Panasonic."

They also pointed out that the higher density sensor meant smaller noise at a pixel level and that it was a challenge to deliver good video from a high resolution, (so slower reading out) sensor.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-iv-review/9

So why exactly is it a better choice for video compared to 24 MP cameras then? I don't see that in the quoted text.
The wording in the summary implies that the A7rIV advantages compared to A7III include video, which is not the case (unless there is some benefit not mentioned in the review)
Getting good detail in crop mode is not really something to call home about when others can achieve the same or more in full 6k sensor readout with 4k down scaling.
No doubt the A7RIV is excellent or even leading in many areas, but I was not aware that was also the case in video - thus the question.

DPR has more than a few people on its staff. The video represented the opinions of Chris and Jordan, while this represents apparently the consensus of their entire staff.

Haha - marketing? For whom? The DPReview Awards is just our staff arguing among ourselves and deciding by vote which products in several major categories deserve recognition. The X-T30 is excellent (and recognised as such in several places on DPReview) we just picked the EOS M6 Mark II because in the end we prefer its ergonomics. @Ashley - you've already been warned for troll posting.

I don't mind the idea of the removable viewfinder but I use flash a lot so I need the hotshoe.
I think the target audience mostely uses the camera without the viewfinder. I'd assume that Canon has looked at the relative sales numbers of the M5 and M6 and decided no built-in viewfinder is what most people who are buying this want.

Canon M5 sales were probably really quite low. But I don't think it was due to few people wanting a built-in EVF, but rather pricing for M5 was too high. Especially compared to M50 which has better specs in a few areas and cost only 50%. Ever since I think M5 sales fell through the floor. Price differential not justified at all.

I also think M6 II is priced too high, especially when EVF is optional and 250 € on top. I think street price will come down soon. Also hpoping for both, an M5 II at a sensible MSRP as well as a very affordable M50 II. Both with a built-in EVF, ideally pop-up, - like what Canon did with G5X II.

KZ7 - Actually I don't think Canon fully understand who their target audience is for the M6 Mkii.

Previous M cameras have all really been aimed clearly at novices or "casual" photographers. But the specification and performance of the M6 Mkii are far more suitable for more "serious" photographers.

Which is why I really don't understand the silliness of having an EVF that prevents usage of hotshoe-mounted flash*. I wouldn't want a pop-up EVF, I prefer the M5 type.

I wish Canon had a M5 MKii up their sleeve, but I don't think they do, as it would cannibalise sales of M6 Mkii.

*It is of course possible to use the built-in flash to fire an off-camera slave flash, but that is slower and more difficult to setup than using a bounce flash in the hotshoe.

Canon 90D?

They needed to give an award to every major brand, and somehow force this one on Nikon.

"They needed to give an award to every major brand, and somehow force this one on Nikon."

Untrue. These awards are determined solely by our editorial team. Both lenses are excellent, but we gave the award to the Nikon because it is a more affordable, more practical lens for normal use.

Not only did the 135mm F1.8 GM make the shortlist, we selected it as runner-up in the category.

@Richard Butler
sorry my bad.....
Good to see that 2 of the lenses I bought this year are there :-)
(the 135GM and Sigma 35/1.2)
I understand that it is a specialized lens but I think that the 200-600G is quite the lens for the price point. That is my other purchase... ehehe

I've tried the Sony 135, is a beautiful lens, but I own the 85/1.8S which I've used quite a bit the past few weeks, and I can say really is a gem. I used to give all the credit to my 105/1.4E as my best lens for its beautiful rendering, but I now see the 85/1.8S as just as special, just different use. And here I'm not thinking at all about price...

@Barney Britton - To say we like 85mm more cause its more affordable then 135mm is a bit oxymoron for me. Damn sure it will be more affordable, its much cheaper to produce it. Compering oranges and apples...

The Samyang 85mm 1.4 FE lens was released this year as well. I think for the price and performance, it puts all the nominated lenses to shame. Too bad DPR doesn't consider alternative lenses due to mainstream brand bias.

@Thoughts R Us

You have been gushing about the 1DXIII and the D6 for a while. Can you tell us what you know about these cameras?

'Amazing' and 'innovative' are not strong adjectives, especially for DSLRs, a product that most people believe has reached the end of its developmental path.

He knows that they aren't milc, therefore deserving of his praise.

DSLRs will likely be around a long time still in wildlife and sports photography. The flagship Nikon and Canon DSLR cameras are the most robust and dependable made. These photographers know them, they work, and they like them. Many appreciate the engagement in the ambient scene that optical viewfinders offer. I doubt many of these photographers care very much about marginally smaller camera body size given the lenses they are often using. Cameras have been more than adequate for most uses for a long time now -- there are few, if any, must-have new features or specifications.

@ Rubberdials
Based on past models and the details given so far, its not to much of a stretch to say that the D6 and 1DXiii will be amazing cameras. Will they be innovative, thats another question entirely and one we'll only get the answer to when they are released.

I get that, but it doesn’t feel as expensive as it is. It’s like a Tesla, the underlying technology is great, but the construction is that of a $17k Corolla.

Anyone getting into photography isn't buying a $4K camera.

OK, that's not entirely true. I saw a guy at Best Buy this summer buy an A7R3 because he wanted to take family videos and "wouldn't settle for less than the best."

I should have taken down his number for a firesale camera later when he realized that good video was more effort than plunking down your credit card.

@Rob: I call bull. Can you link a video of a prominent content producer who recommends the A7RIV as a first time camera?

^^ what Keith said ^^

Well then why haven't one of the smaller sensor ILCs such as M4/3 format been selected? They have a lower price, larger lens range, are lighter and more portable.

@pete because IQ is super important and it's lacking on m43. The R4 manages to combine it all.

Gfx100?! Pfft...Phase one is superior.

@pollup I have to disagree there! There is plenty of good IQ on M4/3, it's not lacking at all. It's not as good as FF, but then FF is not as good as medium format. It's all relative, which is the point of the OP. If the selection by DPR is not solely on IQ but a combination of other factors such as light weight and price, then M4/3 would beat the Sony.

RF 50 1.2 came out last year and was the DPRTV choice for lens of the year.

Thank you for pointing that out.

@Joe Tam

The focus of the A7IV doesn't match A9? No s*it. Why do you think that is?

//I really want to like the a7riv but it has a very limited scope of usage.//

Sorry, but that's simply a ridiculous thing to say. The A7IV is perhaps the most versatile camera yet made.

It's not as fast as the A9 but then Usain Bolt didn't win too many 10,000 metre races either.

@RubberDials

Your sentences contradict each other: "The A7IV is perhaps the most versatile camera yet made. It's not as fast as the A9..."

Do you own both a9 and a7riv and use them on a daily basis?

I can't imagine how much of a lead the a9ii has on a7riv in af speed as the a9 already exceeds the a7riv in terms of af acquisition and retention of a subject.

For a company that lauds its AF this is key. I am getting weird AF acquisition and hunting that I have not seen since I used Panasonic m43. Hunting that I do not get on my a9.

"The focus of the A7IV doesn't match A9? No s*it. Why do you think that is?"

Regardless of why or why it doesn't match af on a9ii is not the point. The cameras does not deserve "product of the year" with subpar af.

When the shot is critical I grab the a9 and not the "product of the year"

A9ii on the a7riv award: "I wuz robbed".

Yeah, the Lumix full-frame lineup looks really nice with Sigma glass. Despite the S1 series bodies being a little more expensive, Sigma's lenses brings the costs in line quickly.

Plus, I'm still looking forward to Sigma's Foveon camera next year.

The Inovation is that it’s an inverted tardis. It’s bigger on the outside than the inside.

The handheld hi-res mode is really impressive. We want to see it on other Olympus cameras ASAP.

Read about the camera and you Will see

Reckoning choos-choos and others is actually nice and innovative, others are 7.5 stops image stabilization that truly helps holding ISO down, digital ND filter is handy, handheld hi-res is not unique but still rare and makes HDR comes to actual usage. So... I like it.

As Jordan said the handheld highres mode is the best in the business. Sony etc are useless compared to olympus

i like Paul coment best ......The Innovation is that it’s an inverted tardis. It’s bigger on the outside than the inside