Sony just needs to have better ergonomics and better UX.

MILC
Compare Sony and Panasonic stabilisation for video.
Sonys are really bad, Panasonic cameras are useable without gimbals.

I use Sony, but the Canon should have been included. Perhaps it's not up to the competition yet, but it is what it is and Canon should be there. A clear omission i'm sure justified as a different class, but it was a mistake leaving it out.

That may be true if they knew they only had 1 more year to live. Sony used to be regarded as subpar prior to their MILC. It was all about Canon and Nikon. Things change, perhaps in 3 years time Sony will be at the bottom and Pentax on top. You never know. Luckily, with some creativity and basic knowledge of exposure, any system will get you what you desire.

@Niko Vita

I don't get your logic. Why is excellent usability a deal breaker for you?

@ pro photo 2011

With everything else (that matters to me) being similar, the usability is what makes the difference for me indeed. If I have a comfortable grip, the right camera size for me, sufficiently big and responsive buttons, responsive touch screen, quick start and easy and intuitive menus - what else would I need? And then get sharp pictures and pleasing natural colors. Apart from the continuous-AF, which I never use anyway, and the missing second card slot, which I do not care about because my laptop is always with me, the Z is equally good or better than Sony A7iii. I played in the shop with both A7iii and Z6 and I find the Sony too small, the buttons are small and do not respond as fast as Z6, and the same about the touch screen. The Sony menus are confusing (probably because I am still with D750). In addition, I do not like Sony's colors, as they show up on my screen - too artificial. I do not have time to fix every image in PP because I make my living with other things.

Thats why leaving Canon out of the conversation was a joke. The RF lens mount is the game changer here. The seamless transition between Canon's older lenses and the phenomenal new RF lenses puts Canon heads and shoulders above the three. All camera brands take great pictures. Canon's RF mount is what sets them ahead of the pack. As a professional airline pilot, I run into pilots often who know every technical detail there is but totally suck at flying. The lab rats at DPR is turning the site into something similar.

Such comparison doesn't make sense from a photography standpoint, but it does help trigger some purchase decisions that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Please keep in mind that a lot of the internet content is directly or indirectly aimed at developing sales, otherwise there wouldn't be any money to pay wages of content editors. In other words, almost everything online is business driven.

@Class A - "It makes more sense to target specific budget classes"

you must not be aware that dpr already does that with their detailed buyers guide, where there is a "cameras by budget" category, with several sub listings: https://www.dpreview.com/buying-guides

@MILC man

I'm aware of the buying guide.

Unfortunately, it is just another place where DPRreview, despite all assertions to the contray, display their let's call it "enthusiasm" for mirrorless cameras.

@Class A - i'm not seeing any bias towards milc there, only a bias towards the best performance for the money.

no doubt you are crying because no pentax gear made the cut, but the days of pentax being competitive on price vs. performance are long gone... I know that because I bought the k10d, it was cheap back then, so i'm familiar with the brand.

Nikon D3500 w/18-55 lens $397
Canon PowerShot G9 X II $399
Canon EOS M100 w/15-45mm lens $399
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 $448
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS100 $498
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 $498
Sony a5100 w/16-50mm lens $548
Sony a6000 w/16-50mm lens $648
Fujifilm X-E3 $699
Sony a7 II $1398
Nikon D750 $1296

"MILC man" says it all.

Best Seller: AbergBest 21 Mega Pixels 2.7", $40.99 L.O.L

Yeah, both statements have some truth in them.

no, your posts conflict with each other, and neither of 'em made sense to begin with.

Didnt make sense to you milc addict. Read the reviews of 2015, aren't those camera of 2015 not great purchases according to the reviews? Same goes for cameras of 2018. How will that trio A7III, Z6, S1 of cameras look like in 2022? You buy new cameras every year? good luck.

no, it doesn't make sense, because you claimed that you own a dslr that is "better", and you dissed 2019 milc as "obsolete", then made a post asking when do "we" get new tech with 8k video, on a milc body.

like you would ever buy a milc, much less a milc with 8k video.

why are you asking for 8k video, after claiming that your dslr is "better".

none of that makes sense, it's a direct contradiction, and your claims were wrong to begin with.

You have a good technique to dismiss other's comments. For me, DSLR is plenty good for the money spent. And mirrorless models of 2018 are early models. According to camera industry pros, there will be much better mirrorless camera models in the next couple of years compared to the models released in 2018. Which means, any of those models will be obsolete very quickly. In 2020/2021 no one will want a 2018 model, the next models will be much much better.

I know right, the other day I was trying to watch 4K video on my 8k screen and it wasn’t going so well, until I remembered one thing!

I don’t have an 8K screen and 99.9% of the world don’t either!

I guess our screens, like our cameras, are obsolete huh?

MILC Cameras are the future, no need to make ridiculous claims because you’re struggling internally with a desire to own one.

I have no problem to let other people spend their money on mirrorless camera while I can take the same quality of photographs with a DSLR without spending anything.

z6's and z7's, EOS-R's and S1's aren't selling much. This is why I said the "advanced consumer mirrorless market". Various reports show people aren't buying them. What keeps Canon number one overall is the low-end DSLR. They sell these like crazy in both Japan & US. Canon and Nikon still dominate the DSLR markets. Canon sells tons of M50 sub-$1k mirrorless cameras also. Panasonic has micro 4/3, Sony found a niche with full-frame mirrorless. People think of Canon or Nikon for DSLR they tend to think of Sony for full frame mirrorless. I just didn't think the article acknowledged this enough. I'm not saying Canon or Panasonic or Nikon aren't going to be around. But I am wondering how hard they will keep trying to catch up with Sony in FF mirrorless going forward. L Mount alliance seems generally too expensive. I hope they do more but it took the big guys so long to enter the FF mirrorless market and they didn't really make a sales dent so far.

"Aren't selling much." - how do you know?

"Various reports" - where?

The guy's screen name is "Alpha6". He's a Sony fan boy.

I get a chuckle out of you "gloom and doom" types of people. Especially, those who think Nikon is going to go down in a ball of flame. Nikon isn't going anywhere soon...if ever. They've been in business longer than Canon and Sony. Canon has been in business for 81 years and Sony for 73 years. Nikon for over 100 years. Enough said.

Well, OK. DPR’s conclusion is compatible with what I expressed... but you do say, “ As always, lens availability should play a major role in which camera you choose.” :-)

Don't agree. Use your old system as long as what's offered in the market isn't fully matching what you need. And wait until the right system including the camera features that you want and the set of lenses that you want are fully available, then buy the whole system (camera and lenses) as a bundle at a negotiated price.

NicoPPC - we actually updated two Nikon reviews before the Sony, are currently looking at the EOS R and have updated scores in response to firmware for several cameras over the years. It's not about brand.

I specifically called-out how promising the RF lens lineup is looking but I'm afraid we don't agree with your assessment of the EOS R. We liked the RP enough to give it a Gold award, but it's not really comparable with these models.

Historically it was fairly unusual for manufacturers to issue updates that fundamentally changed the behavior of their cameras. Fujifilm was among the first to do it and we updated the X100 review, for instance, when the firmware addressed a range of the concerns we'd expressed in our review.

Secondly, we're a small team. At any given time there will be cameras we're still working on, and it's hard to justify delaying the review of a new camera to re-assess an existing one.

However, the increasing prevalence of major updates, plus a relatively quiet summer period has given us this opportunity. So we're looking back at recent cameras (of any brand) to see which ones need to be re-assessed.

One of the fundamental aspects of being a 'pro reviewer' is, through testing and experience, being able to distinguish between cameras.

I looked carefully at these use-cases and couldn't find one in which we'd recommend the EOS R over these rivals. I didn't think adding a paragraph to every slide saying that the EOS R is a little off the pace was of benefit to anyone. This is not bias against a brand, this is the outcome of our assessment of that specific model: it's the consequence of us having reviewed it.

You don't have to agree with us, but that's our assessment. Solely based on our testing and experience of that specific model.

Thanks for your reply.

Nice everyone has different opinions. Otherwise the world would be boring.

Cheers

Yep and five years from now, they’ll be running articles asking how Sony got to its monopoly position and we will all be stuck in color correction hell, because they made bogus claims that boosted Sony to the top.

Th truth is, Nikon and Canon have plenty of lenses, even if they need to be adapted, they’re still very good and affordable lenses. Crud, my 200 f/2 has only one available option for a true Mirrorless lens and that’s twice the price that I paid for it while being designed only for use on a crop sensor body... I can’t even buy an equivalent lens in a Sony Mount (as far as I know anyway)!

Ken Rockwell unbiased?
Can we say oxymoron?

Sorry about that. I've corrected the text accordingly.

MILC
You are propagating false information. 12fps is faster than 10.
The Z6 has a faster frame rate and now with the firmware it is no longer locking exposure at 12 fps.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt when you first posted incorrect information by sending you a PM, pointing you to the recent firmware update.
You are now continuing to post fake information, so I can only conclude that you are purposely lying for no reason.
Sad, so sad.

@Richard Butler
Thanks for correcting and overall a great and fair article.

@NexLupus - the dpr link that I posted is credible, and the z6 af issues were replicated here:

"...although the system at times does hesitate and jump between eyes (we will provide an example video shortly)… Focus accuracy with Eye AF is very good, although if the subject moves too fast, the camera can occasionally focus on eyelashes instead of the eyes." https://photographylife.com/news/nikon-z6-and-z7-firmware-update-2-0-with-eye-af-released

your ongoing refusal to accept actual facts about z6 af accuracy issues is something that you need to work out, don't pm me for help with it.

MILC
Your deceitful and when your called on it you try to change the subject.
Even DPReview is correcting their site to CORRECTLY show the frame rate as is shown above by Richard Butler’s statement.
You on the other hand double down on your lies, very sad.
Every time I try and give you the benefit of the doubt you prove that it was wasted.

@NexLupus - no, you are having reading comprehension problems, because I stated "z6 12fps" in the post that you responded to here, and then pointed out that weak z6 af won't give you the benefits of 2fps more.

that's obvious to anyone who reads what was posted, so there isn't any point in you trying to lie about it.

you shot your mouth off when you shouldn't have, lol

I think it is not the DPR's fault, but Canon's.
Few years ago Magic Lantern and Canon's dual pixel were the best AF in hybrid cameras.
Now it lags behind Sony and Nikon in video, so much that Canon's latest cameras even lack 24fps or Dual Pixel in 4K. So whose fault it is?

I think across the web, the general consensus has been that Canon's FF mirrorless bodies have been rather weak. So does the entire internet now have an anti-Canon bias? Or is it that these opinions are simply based on the result of testing and use of these specific cameras, as Richard is saying? I'm guessing that it is simply the latter. As the saying goes, don't shoot the messengers-- all of them-- just because the message isn't to your liking.

Thank you captain obvious!

If you’re going to get 40+, might as well go medium format.

Many readers of this blog love brand shoot-outs and the editors know it. It gives readers an outlet to their photographic frustrations. Nothing wrong with that. There are other blogs with pretentions to more objective analysis.

@junk1 believe it or not, Japanese readers and buyers are quite partisan too. I remember reading an article about Sony A7, where below there were negative comments from Japanese readers who were claiming that the website *BCN Retail was favoring Sony.

I am happy enough with EF lenses adapted to the S1. Maybe I am too easy to please?

@Fred the Swede

DPReview have not commented on how annoying the repeated in and out of focus wobbling of Panasonic's DFD system is either. I tried the S1 and S1R and found it very irritating to see the viewfinder go in and out of focus repeatedly when trying to establish focus on a subject.

Not to mention the slight smearing of the viewfinder image during panning even when operating at the battery-hungry 120Hz mode.

Such shortcomings will only be mentioned in the future when better solutions become available, just like you wouldn't read about any EVF shortcomings unless it is in the form of a comment on older technology in a review about a camera that doesn't suffer (as much) from that specific problem anymore.

dprtv posted a video feed from the panasonic screen, it showed the misfocusing and the bad blackout with native L-mount glass.

need to see it again, after this latest firmware update.

As mainly landscape/interiors shooter on Sony I am always using MF.

As a result I won't hesitate to grab S1 with its 16-35/4 (as soon as available) and novoflex MF adapter for my A-mount lenses.

So as far as I am concerned, adaptability on S1 body is a 100% success, on the paper (=until I'm trying that myself)