DPReview Readers&#39; Choice Awards 2020: Product of the Year

XT-4 second? And I thought APS-C was dead?

Jan 17, 2021permalink

cameron2

It's getting seriously hard to find any new + bad cameras and lenses these days.

Jan 14, 2021permalink

CJAM

@howaboutRAW: I never mentioned cameras; 2020 was for me, and many others, a terrible year. Unfortunately for me, 2021 is no better so far, maybe worse. I can't wait for 2022

Jan 9, 2021permalink

aerorail

it won't fit in my pocket....pass

as for overheating.. makes a nice hand-warmer this time of year eh?

Jan 9, 2021*permalink

@aerorail
It’s not designed to fit in your pocket - it’s designed for photography. How is the 8K video from your RX100.....?

Jan 9, 2021permalink

Andy Reyna

Canon R5 uses a 48 million pixel full frame sensor. It is high pixel model for landscape photography and commercial portrait photography. The 8 level anti-shake is a single body anti-shake. It is in the second generation of full pixel dual-core focus with coverage area 100%*100%. And the focusing has no dead Angle. Canon R5 supports 8K video shooting, 12-bit RAW video format, and eye focus under video shooting. video shooting also supports all formats of auto focus, 4K 120P support. It can shoot 4K 60P without cutting mechanical shutter 12 photos/s, electronic shutter 20 photos/s continuous shooting speed.Overall the Canon R5 has a very good picture quality, good performance, good speed and good standby.

Jan 8, 2021permalink

User7146803616

Am I committing heresy - but at a slightly eye watering price the R5 should be a bloody good camera. Yet in the end is it splitting hairs, and coming down to cult over content? I use Nikon and the 810 as a stills camera by any standards is stunning. Recently, by client demand, I've backed it up with a D780 - rock solid for routine video work and doesn't get red hot and stop after 30m minutes, which for my work - a lot of studio 'how to stuff' - would be disastrous.

Then there is Leica's SL2-S, and Leica is no longer unaffordable. Being lucky enough to have a go with one, this is a beautifully proportioned and accessible camera, even without an articulated back, that allows continuous video shooting. And the 'L' lenses coming from Panasonic and Sigma means creativity is no longer stumped by Leica prices.

In all honesty I'm at a bit of a loss that the readers choice is a camera where one of its most publicised and praised features is crippled by such a basic problem as overheating.

Jan 7, 2021*permalink

User7146803616:

But the R5 is mirrorless and the D780 is a "passe" SLR body.

And DPR didn't allow voting for the SL2-S, not that it would have won since it's not mass market, even if the R5 is pretty close to the same price. However, since the SL2-S released very late in the year, perhaps next year DPR will count it as a 2021 release for polling purposes.

Right, the R5 needs some work. The R6 is largely a better Canon FF M-ILC body.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

@user76466799.....
Well - the undoubted winner overheats after a generous period of doing something none of the other products mentioned (Nikon 810 - seriously.....) will do - so hardly a legitimate whinge.....it is quite pricey though.....

Jan 7, 2021permalink

User7146803616

Hello Kandid

Not a whinge, a personal observation from personal experience.

D810 - bought mine used, well hardly used, as a stills camera and the quality is still hard to beat. Can't see the Canon bettering it.

D780 - that was bought for video. I'm not shooting for the big screen - but which dpreview states 'On the video side, the D780 is also quite compelling. The quality of its 4K footage is excellent and nearly class-leading.'. Add to that the use of nearly any Nikon lens ever mad, battery life and price..... !

The Leica - well that's something just to have a affair with without upsetting my other half.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

@user77655677
I somehow doubt that you have had personal experience with the R5 yet you feel able to compare it to the cameras you do have and mention overheating twice.................ummmmmmm🤨

Jan 7, 2021permalink

User7146803616

.............ummmmmmm🤨. Sure the R5 is a nice camera, but I'm not sure clients are too concerned, my wallet would be and, yes, overheating could be a problem.

Jan 7, 2021*permalink

Ebrahim Saadawi

So is 8K that overheats in prolonged shooting worse than having the feature in the camera for those who can still make significant use of it in controlled shootings and b-roll? It doesn't make sense to criticize it for not excelling in something no other competitor does, doesn't it? The D780 while a good camera for video, the R5 is in a whole different league with the HDMI output, timecode, 8K, 8k-4K oversampling, perfect UI/peaking/zebras, gorgeous EVF for video, an in camera powerful IS for all manual video glass and a mount that can take them all, not to mention the size and weight and the Dual Pixel AF and the beloved C-LOG. Just a whole different class of video camera. You can shoot Hollywood films on both cameras an no one will complain about the image just as you can shoot a gallery masterpiece of a 24mp excellent D3500 yet that doesn't mean photographers and especially us, camera geeks should,'t buy and enjoy the higher performing/more featured photography cameras like the d810

Jan 7, 2021permalink

@User76886432
You claim you speak reasonably after personal experience. You have admitted now that that was palpable nonsense. It’s OK to love your 8 year old Nikon - it’s not necessary to attack newer better products of which you have no experience....

Jan 7, 2021permalink

> You can shoot Hollywood films on both cameras

Sorry, no. As someone who has worked on professional film and video shoots I can tell you that no Hollywood professional would want to use a camera that can overheat and shut down in the middle of production.

Jan 8, 2021permalink

@mikegt
Hhheeeeeellllloooooooooow......
I think when people talk about ‘working on professional film...’ they don’t mean in charge of the cloakrooms....🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣😂😂🤣😂

Jan 8, 2021permalink

"the D780 is a "passe" SLR body"

Of course if you shoot professionally this is going to be of much concern to the client.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

mxx:

Setting aside live music were the utterly silent shutter option of a mirrorless body might matter to a client: Why would a client care if you used a DSLR or mirrorless body as long as the results were good? And of course, the D780 has a silent shutter option, but the photographer using that option would have to shoot from the rear screen not the OVF.

As yet untested by DPR, but Leica released a new DSLR in 2020, the S3. The admittedly low ISO samples I saw look excellent.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

Ebrahim Saadawi

Mikegt: Sorry, no. As someone who has worked on professional film and video shoots I can tell you that no Hollywood professional would want to use a camera that can overheat and shut down in the middle of production

That's just for the 8K mode that doesn't exist on the D870, nor on Arri Alexas. A camera that shoots great looking 4K is definitely enough to shoot a hollywood film on, including a tiny 500$ camera like an a6300/XT30, it's all about the cine glass, the gaffers with amazing lighting, the story writer, the actors performance, etc. That's theoritical of course as a hollywood film has budget to just rent a cinema camera. When we say 'can' it's different from 'do'

Feb 2, 2021permalink

Ebrahim: The R5 also overheats in 4K mode.

A director on a car commercial insisted on using a Canon R5 instead of a professional Red camera for drone shots. Significant production time was subsequently lost due to the Canon overheating. I'm guessing the client paying for the commercial will probably never hire that director again. Clients hate it when you make them lose money.

Feb 2, 2021*permalink

@mikegt
You have a lovely new (rather expensive) camera to slobber over. No need any more to panic about the R5 and make stuff up - just leave it to keep selling out. You go shoot with the (strangely time limited on 8K also) A1 - if you can afford one....(btw the mythical ‘director’ on the car commercial could have probably splashed out on an external recorder and shot happily away...)

Feb 2, 2021permalink

Kandid: You are the one who is lying here. The R5 is not suitable for robust commercial video use; professionals cannot afford to lose time due to overheating cameras and the R5 will still overheat with an external recorder plus the R5's fragile toy micro HDMI connector that you have to use to connect a recorder WILL break after a few uses.

My honest opinion is that the R5 is a fine stills camera although it's missing the high-rez pixel-shift mode other cameras in its class have.

It's even a good video camera for AMATEUR use. What you refuse to understand is that professionals cannot afford to use something that overheats and uses fragile non-pro connectors. It would of cost Canon around $1 to use a full-size HDMI connector - MY CHEAP $199 CANON CAMCORDER COMES WITH A BIGGER MORE ROBUST HDMI CONNECTOR THAN THE $3,500 R5 !!! It is screaming obvious that Canon deliberately crippled the cooling and HDMI connector on the R5 to protect their pricey Cinema Line.

Feb 5, 2021*permalink

On last note here Mr. Kandid: I'm happy to criticize Sony as well when they do something disappointing. Sony has stuck with 8-bit video on many of their cameras for too long, and their image stabilization and color science is not quite as good as Canon's, although both brands get beat in the stabilization department by cameras like my GoPro Hero 8.

The new Sony A1 is simply too expensive for most people. What Sony really needs to do is come out with a less expensive version that maybe doesn't do 8K but does high quality downsampled 4K with 4:2:2 10-bit color at a decent bit-rate. At around the same price point as the current A7 III that would be a hot seller IMHO.

Feb 5, 2021*permalink

Ebrahim Saadawi

Mikegt: I believe your story it isn't illogical, if your director did make the mistake of shooting a prolonged shoot on the R5 using the supersampled 4K (HQ) mode (basically the 8K PLUS oversampling in the camera) the camera will stop the production. That's why a director should have a deep knowledge and a deep test with any new camera he or she tries, if he had done so, he would have shot 8K for the small beauty shots and the rest on the normal 4K mode (which produces beautiful 4K footage suitable for a car commercial (Same quality as all high resolution stills 4K cameras like the z7 and A7RIV, which can't take a 50mp data and oversample it perfectly to 8mp data on the fly, so they resort to pixel binning or simply cropping the sensor to s35) etc, just not as tack tack sharp as the 8K supersampled mode) but no overheating whatsoever. Testing is a vital component of video production, I've learned that the hard way!

Feb 21, 2021*permalink

sneakyracer

I got the R5 for mostly still use and wow it is fantastic. Hard to ask much more. Only wants I have are a tad larger body thats about it. Silent shutter is WORLDS better than the R. MUCH less rolling shutter and banding. The in body IS is the smoothest I have seen, fantastic in video mode as well. Wow.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

Steppenw0lf

The Leica SL2 is better than the R5, the SL2-S is better than the R6. But of course they are not popular and are not part of this selection.
But do you really think you present here the best products of the year ?
It was obviously a terrible year.

Jan 6, 2021*permalink

Steppenw0lf:

The Canon R5 and R6 have better AF. And the SL2 is a 2019 released camera, so it wasn't included on the list. Then the SL2-S released very late in the year 2020 so is really a 2021 camera.

Now, the Leica ILC that is a 2020 camera, the unmentioned S3. It's released.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

@steppen
Better, but not popular - surely a contradiction...?
Launched in 2019 anyway - clue is in the name of the award......😐

Jan 7, 2021permalink

CJAM

Yes, it was a terrible year

Jan 7, 2021permalink

CJAM:

Why do you think 2020 a terrible camera year? The R5, R6, XT4, and A7S III are very good cameras.

And there are excellent cameras like the D780, EM1 III, Z6 II, Z7II, Q2 Monochrome, the M10-R, and the SL2-S. Then I suspect the S3 is also excellent.

Perhaps there haven't been as many excellent lenses as in years past. DPR notes one in this award, though didn't allow voting for the optically best AF full framed 50mm lens ever released--the Leica SL 50mm f/2.0.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

zxaar

List was designed to push canons to top. No real choices were given.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

@zxaar
😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😂😂😂🤣😂 ridiculous...
List was chosen by readers.....

Jan 7, 2021permalink

Steppenw0lf

The 5DS is still the best Canon photo camera.
It is now 5 years old. The R5 is more expensive and “modern”, presented with a lot of marketing BS, but for stills not really exciting compared to the 5DS. (Simply too expensive, it will not replace the 5DS for me).
When comes the successor to the 5DS/R ? Will it finally be a true “camera of the year“ ?
The R5 is rather a toy of the year, with a lot of unnecessary “features” like overheating.

Jan 6, 2021*permalink

thx1138

I think coloured pencils are more your style, all the features you would ever need.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

thx1138:

That's not an argument for the R5.

For example you didn't say, "the R5 has better AF", or, "the RF is one stop better for higher ISOs", or, "the R5 has optically better native lenses", or, "the R5, within limits, is a better video camera".

Steppenw0lf has a valid point about how good the 5DSR is. Pretending the 5DSR is analogous to using coloured pencils says more about you than Steppenw0lf.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

Steppenw0lf

@1138
You are right, it is not possible to give you a reply. You are so off topic and on such a low intellectual level. It is amazing that this is allowed on this forum, and some even like that nonsense. That shows me something about you and them.
When will you grow up and learn how to discuss like a grown up ?

Jan 16, 2021*permalink

Naming the Canon R5 the best camera of the year is perhaps the worst mistake true Canon fans could make. Canon cynically makes a crippled camera with poor cooling and a fragile mini HDMI connector to protect it's Cinema Line, and its declared camera of the year ? This will just encourage Canon to continue these kinds of shady tactics for years to come. There are a lot of Canon executives in Tokyo laughing right now at how gullible Americans are.

Until we are willing to stand-up and not let the Japanese camera makers make chumps of us, they will just keep doing it.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

kristian1

They couldn’t care less :)

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Kristain1:

You are right, I'm sure the camera makers who deliberately cripple their products in the name of "market segmentation" don't care about our objections to their practices, and they will continue to not care until we as consumers stop rewarding them by buying said crippled products.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

@mikegt
It’s Camera of the year because it deserves to be 😁
How even a bitter die hard anti Canon poster (such as you repeatedly seem to be) can call this ‘crippled’ when it can do more than any competitor is difficult to understand - and makes me concerned as to your grip on reality.....😳

Jan 7, 2021permalink

MGradyC

So cameras designed primarily as stills cameras should be judged solely on things that only apply to video? Is that about right? How about we also judge dedicated video cameras solely on how well they do taking stills?

Those who use the Canon R5 for its intended purpose, shooting stills, couldn't care less about the mini-HDMI connector or heating issues when doing something no other hybrid camera on the market even attempts to do.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

MGradyC: Most folks here like to shoot both stills and videos and don't want to carry around two cameras to do so! Plus Canon made a huge deal about the video capabilities of this camera; so you are mistaken in your belief that the R5 was not designed and intended for both uses. Lastly, if you don't care about video why do you want to spend $5,000 on an R5 when for stills there are much better and cheaper alternatives? Like the 51 megapixel Canon 5DSR, which these days sells used for only around $1,200 ? If you really want to spend five grand on a stills camera, then get a medium format model like the Fujifilm GFX 50R; this would be a much better choice for someone who only cares about stills.

Kandid: You are well-known as a Canon fanatic and troll. Your words are never worth reading, and in fact I stopped reading your post as soon as I saw your name! Didn't you get banned for a while for being a super troll ? It's a shame they didn't make the ban permanent.

Jan 8, 2021*permalink

@mikegt
Nice to see you well up to form. Insults and disinformation rather than deal with reality
1. R5 is $3899 NOT ‘$5000’ - DISINFORMATION......!!!
2. 5DSR was $3899 at launch (and for a long period afterwards) so very similar
3. Of course I have never been banned - once told off for being rude to people like you - so I will report your abusive post...😊
4. ‘Canon fanatic’ 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣

Jan 8, 2021permalink

Kandid: No one is reading your crap. Give it up already.

Jan 8, 2021permalink

@mikegt
You did 🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣

Jan 8, 2021permalink

MGradyC

I usually carry around more than one body just for shooting stills. One for a "wide" or "wide to medium" lens and one for my "long" lens. The R5 is $3,899 where I am at, not $5K. The AF performance of the R5 waxes the 5Ds R. The handling speed of the R5 waxes both the Fuji "MF lite" cameras and the 5Ds R. Fuji GFX 50R is much too slow for sports/action, not to mention there are no lenses available for it that are long enough to shoot field sports with it.

Prior to the release of the R5, Canon always promoted the still features of the camera before the video features. It was the rumor mill press and other third party youTubers looking for clicks who went crazy and could talk of nothing except "8K video, Dude! 8K!!!!!" "I mean... 8-freaking-K video!!!"

Apr 19, 2021permalink

mdb1974

All I'm asking for is that we find 11,780 votes for the XT-4.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Been said before - got nuked....

Jan 6, 2021permalink

zxaar

Ask dominion and make as much as you want.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

JustSomeone

what a coincidence! Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji all represented.
I trust this as much as I trust any US election. haha

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Hoxton Bridge

Well, there really isn't that much else to choose from... or were you joking?

Jan 6, 2021permalink

JustSomeone

Yes but every year is the same, all brands get represented with one little award to make them happy. It's a bit tedious really.

Jan 18, 2021permalink

JustSomeone:

But all brands aren't represented in the awards.

Jan 18, 2021permalink

Well justified and signalling a real return to form for Canon. About time too however - and now is not the time to rest on laurels or go back to sleep.......😴

Jan 6, 2021permalink

zxaar

Overheating junk.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

By all accounts the R5 is a wonderful camera, hobbled by just one problem which many amateurs will probably be able to work around, as is the case with every camera that is not absolutely perfect.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

Jer81

DPR, why was the most popular post removed. The one that asked for another few thousands of Fuji voters?

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Handsome90

In the forums, politics isn’t allowed so I guess the same rule applies in the comment section

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Your answer came up trumps!

Jan 17, 2021*permalink

il_alexk

Nobody picked Pentax or Olympus? Dammit, what's wrong with you, people?😂

Jan 6, 2021permalink

So Pentax must be really dead then? 🙃
Olympus: probably not yet, I think it took JIP at least a year to destroy Sony VAIO, as well? So let's give them one more year to go...

Jan 6, 2021*permalink

il_alexk

@dpthoughts Pentax is not dead.

They have found their niche, a single announcement of a new product every decade is all it takes to give Pentax shooters shivers of delight. The never ending anticipation of the pleasure of holding a new Pentax product is actually gives more meaning to our lives than shooting with that product when it is actually released.

I know better, I am a Pentaxian. Who shoots Sony and Fuji most of the time.

😂

Jan 6, 2021*permalink

thx1138

Well kudos to Canon for finally finding a pulse again and despite the hate now over heat, the R5 is clearly a stand-out device this year. I think Nikon's 14-24 f/2.8 S should have gotten third place rather than the 50 f/1.2, it's right up their with the Sony in IQ and much cheaper.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

I agree the 50mm is a very boring choice. The 14-24 probably would have been better. Just referencing your comment about the price, the 12mm capability of the Sony in a zoom especially at 2.8 is kinda special and makes the design much more challenging.

If 14-24 is good enough and f2.8 required Sigma makes a fantastic option for E mount. Specially designed for mirrorless. Substantially cheaper than the Nikon.

Jan 6, 2021*permalink

thx1138

Indeed the Sigma is a sensational lens. Once I decide which mirrorless brand I'm sticking with it will be one of my first choices. Nikon has the better glass overall than Canon IMO, but R5 is a way ahead of Z7II where it counts for me, AF, and tracking. If Z8/Z9 can match R5 at least I'm inclined to go with Nikon as I refuse to give up their PF lenses.

Jan 7, 2021permalink

piratejabez

Thanks for polling!

Jan 5, 2021permalink

Lexptr

Well deserved! May be the Nikon lens is somewhat dubious, but still expected.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

The Fat Fish

”For many of you, the R5 signified a return to form from Canon after a few years where the company had seemed rather cautious.”

Cautious? I thought they'd given up entirely.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

🙂

Jan 5, 2021permalink

Hard to argue with the Canon, Fuji, and Sony selections here. The Nikon one is a little puzzling. A $2000+ 50mm prime lens? I mean I get that it’s f1.2, but still. If that’s Nikon’s product of the year, that’s not a good sign. Perhaps the II series bodies were released too late to garner enough votes. Otherwise I guess it was a rather uninteresting year for Nikon.

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

They also have $500 prime lens which is pretty amazing, so i don't see your point.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

@Andy

$500.00 for a nothing spectacular prime lens is too much.

Tedolph

Jan 5, 2021permalink

Andy that wasn’t voted the #3 product of the year.
I’m not saying anything about the Z lens selection. I’m just saying a 50mm f1.2 lens that cost more than $2000 is the product of the year, then it was a boring year.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

@tedolf: Yes, it's pretty spectacular, one of the best 50mm primes on the market. Please check reviews.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

@ Andy,

Do you have a link?

Tedolph

Jan 5, 2021permalink

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z-50mm-f1point8-s-lens-review/3

@tedolf: There are plenty on the internet if you do a search. But there is a review right here on DPreview:

And the conclusion:

"The Nikon Z 50mm F1.8 S is a powerful standard lens for the Z system, offering outstanding sharpness and full-aperture performance. There are better 50mm lenses on the market for portraiture, but none that are sharper or so well-corrected for coma and longitudinal chromatic aberration when shot wide open."

Jan 5, 2021permalink

I thought we were talking about a $2100 50mm prime lens here that got the most votes among Nikon products for product of the year.

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

Mike: we were talking about the $500 1.8 lens too.

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

@Andy

That's what I thought. The 50mm f/1.8.

A $199.00 lens that is selling for $500.00.

Tedolph

Jan 6, 2021permalink

@tedolf: Damn man, get some logic. Just because a lens is 1.8 does not mean its comparable to a cheap nifty-fifty. Have you even bothered to check the review i linked? It's sharper and has less aberrations than the Sigma 50mm art.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

A slow 50mm standard lens is the easiest lens to make, and make well. It should be the cheapest lens in a manufacturer's inventory.

Tedolph

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Impulses

Maybe so, but prices have gone up in general, and so have the demands put on lenses by high MP bodies... Even third party f1.8 mirrorless lenses tend to go for more than $200 these days. You might be able to get a Samyang f1.8 for $300 or a Tamron f2.8 for $200 on sale (nothing against either btw, I've bought both kinds), but a first party mirrorless prime that's actually good (let alone an exceptional one) will likely never be $200 again... You can get a Sony 50/1.8 for that price, with more compromises than the third party options.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

My original point is still the same. Hard to be excited about Nikon’s 2020 when the readers choice product of the year is a 50mm lens.

Jan 6, 2021*permalink

Impulses

Oh I definitely wasn't defending the 50/1.2, although I do like Nikon's Z lineup overall and I don't think that one prime is necessarily telemarketing representative of where it is or where it's going.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

I agree. Just a meh year for Nikon. Really it was a year for Canon mainly. And somewhat for Sony too. We will see who wins 2021. Hopefully they don’t all lose.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

HibikiTaisuna

It’s a voting of popularity with limited choices. I personally would have voted for the Z5 as the cheapest entry-level full frame camera of the year. They also released the two last missing lenses of the holy trinity all of them with excellent quality. The 14-24 f2.8 is the smallest and lightest f2.8 UWA zoom on the mirrorless market. A stellar 50mm f1.2 might just be more interesting to all the bokeh craze people. On the other hand think about your comment. It’s not only Nikon’s product of the year. It’s also tied lens of the year of all manufacturers. So following your deduction it must have been a boring year for all manufacturers in terms of lenses.

@tedolf the 50mm f1.8 S competes in sharpness with the 3000 Euro Zeiss Otus and easily surpasses the more expensive Zeiss 55mm f1.8 for E-mount. This is not a low quality nifty fifty like the Canon RF version. I guess you call Leica Summicrons nifty fifties as well?

Jan 6, 2021*permalink

@Hibiki,

Yes. I always thought that the 50mm Summicron (I used to call it the Super Pooperon) was the biggest rip off in Leicas' lineup. Compare it to a Pentax SMC Super Takumar of the same era. It's the Leica 10x better?

And this is coming from a Leica owner. I bought the 40mm f/2 instead-an excellent lens and a much better deal.

Tedolph

Jan 6, 2021permalink

HibikiTaisuna

I owned the 40mm f2 as well and it’s garbage. Even compared to something like the 43mm Limited by Pentax. Excellent on film but barely acceptable on digital. And considering its current used price, which btw. is higher than the price of a new 50mm f1.8 S, not worth the money.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

The Canon R6 and Leica SL2-S are better ILCs than the R5, unless you wish to print massive posters from the files.

The Leica SL 50mm f/2.0 remains the best lens of the year 2020, no matter what some voting, which didn't even allow for the SL 50mm's existence, claims. No, this Leica lens did not release until 2020 even though Leica announced it in 2019.

And the most interesting camera of the year, though for a limited market: The Leica Q2 Monochrome. Then the second most interesting, but entirely ignored in 2020 by DPR, so unlike the Q2 Monochrome, is the Leica S3--yes the S3 is out.

(The Sony A9II is a 2019 camera, and the 1DX III and D6 are basic line extensions, albeit the Canon does have the new 20MP sensor, also in the R6, even if Canon is still playing catch up to Nikon.)

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

The R6 is not better in any aspect than the R5. Less resolution, slower sensor, less features, etc. Better value, maybe!

Jan 5, 2021permalink

Andyyy:

"The R6 is not better in any aspect than the R5."

The R6 a better higher ISO body. That was easy.

More resolution, beyond about 12 MP (assuming a 4/3 or larger sensor), is next to meaningless, unless, as I already wrote above, "you wish to print massive posters".

I highly doubt the sensor in the R6 is slower than the R5, since the 1DX III uses the same sensor that's in the R6. HOWEVER, the R6 uses SD cards exclusively while the R5 can use inherently faster CFExpress cards.

Thanks, your response was largely expected. Albeit, I'd not anticipated the "any aspect" assertion, since it's non-factual.

Oh, and the Z7II has a better EVF than the R6 and R5, and the Nikon is a better thought out body. But the Canon M-ILCs have better AF.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

The R6 sensor has slower readout speed and more rolling shutter. Would help if you would actually check the reviews.
The resolution is not meaningless either. Maybe is for you. Its very useful and not just for big prints.
Did you ever had to shoot wildlife and crop the center of the image? There are many situations where you cannot have the perfect composition.

The high ISO again, R5 compensates with more than double the resolution.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Andyyy:

"The high ISO again, R5 compensates with more than double the resolution."

It is simply not true that more pixels compensates for higher ISO weakness, in this instance weaker performance from the R5. This means you know little of shooting at higher ISOs.

"Did you ever had to shoot wildlife and crop the center of the image? There are many situations where you cannot have the perfect composition."

8 good MPs from the center of an image will readily allow an excellent 8 x 12 print of said wildlife. Optically good lenses are vastly more important than extra pixels.

Again, your post says you are unfamiliar with gear and the shooting situation you describe. That ISO error was stunning.

Please cite the sensor readout figures for the R5 and R6/1DX III. Given the 1DX III's full 14 bit raw FPS capacity I doubt your claim absent lab testing. Rolling shutter is really a different matter, and I'm not questioning the proposition that the R5 has less rolling shutter in video.

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Olgierd

Not quite. I have R6 and wish I bought R5 instead. When RF 600 or 800 lens is mounted on those cameras it offers limited AF area (due to the shallow aperture). Switching camera to crop mode widens the AF area but offers less pixels due to the crop factor. It translates roughly to 7-mpix on R5 and 17-mpix on R5.

I wonder if we will see EOS R with cropped sensor sometimes soon...

Jan 6, 2021permalink

Stig Nygaard

> Better value, maybe!

Price is definitely an important advantage for many. If not a requirement.

And the "not better in any aspect [than price]" claim? ....

1) Pixel depth at the max. 12fps mechanical shutterspeed. The R5 pixeldepth are lowered to 13bit when above 8 fps. The R6 keeps it at 14bit when doing the 12fps mechanical.
2) AF sensitivity of R5 is EV -6.0–20, and AF sensitivity of R6 is EV -6.5–20.

Those are the direct advantages of R6 I'm already aware of. But there's probably more...

Jan 8, 2021permalink

Stig:

"Those are the direct advantages of R6 I'm already aware of. But there's probably more..."

Try shooting the R5 at ISO 50K.

Much smaller files are also an advantage. For some reason, the R5, running FW 1.11, shoots massive 15 bit raws.

I don't expect that you'd know the file size thing, and Canon may lessen that issue with later FW, but you should have known the high ISO shooting advantage of the R6.

Now, I didn't know that the R6's AF is more sensitive than that in the R5.

Jan 8, 2021permalink

Olgierd:

Not sure what your point is, except to imply that more MPs are automatically better--they aren't. I didn't say anything about crop mode, or about wider distribution of AF points.

Just yesterday, handled the R6, so the same body on the outside as the R5, and yet again was reminded of how the bodies just don't fit well in my normal hands, even a Sony A7R IV is better. (No, that Sony has excellent AF, and a better sensor, in your terms, than the Canon R5. The A7R IV also has a better EVF.)

Jan 8, 2021permalink

FuhTeng

That was fun. I'm sure some will complain about something but I see no objections to any of the four winners.

Cicala loves the 12-24, the X-T4 is probably the best APS-C ever made, and the R5 still amazes me. I'd have an R5 or X-T4 if I shot Canon or Fuji.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

forest dream

Wait another awards: 'Worst Product of the Year"

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

NexUser

R5 Mark II will be boring then :)

Jan 5, 2021permalink

forest dream

May be R5 Mark II only upgrade firmware like M50 Mark II

Jan 5, 2021permalink

I do think most people buy a camera for its capabilities and not because it is "exciting" as such. I think that option is reserved for people with money to burn, and by the looks of it there're many of them on DPR.

Jan 17, 2021permalink

A beast of a camera and well deserved.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

entoman

Predictable, and well chosen in all cases. The R5 certainly deserves to take first place, despite the complaints about overheating with video. The XT-4 is also a superb camera and worthy of 2nd place.

Joint 3rd place for the Sony 12-24mm and the Nikon 50mm F1.2 is the only one I'd take mionor issue with. I'd give it to the Sony lens and relegate the Nikon to 4th. This proves that the awards are rigged, so I demand a recount and I'll challenge every vote in every state.

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

Indohydra

"I demand a recount and I'll challenge every vote in every state."

Sue everybody on the DPR staff and send death threats to the families.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

h2k

„Sue everybody on the DPR staff and send death threats to the families.“
—-
And bark at all your senators and gouvernors..

Jan 5, 2021permalink

Fabian60

A bit of humor;) it's boring! The Japanese win every year;)

Jan 5, 2021permalink

Handsome90

Congratulations Canon. You deserve this award!

Jan 5, 2021permalink

Jer81

So the R5 wins. How uprising after all the love and attention from the DPR crew.
Congratulations Canon.

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

Congratulations Canon! IIRC editors picked the R6 as the product of the year. But I agree more with the readers. The R5 is.

EDIT: Can someone talk to Amazon? I clicked on link for the R5 to see if it was in stock and how well it is selling.
Here are the top 3 mirrorless cameras. I don't think #1 is a mirrorless camera.
#1
Kodak FunSaver 35mm Single Use Camera
4.7 out of 5 stars 1,364
$15.49
#2
Canon EOS R5 Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera with 8K Video, 45 Megapixel Full-Frame
4.8 out of 5 stars 89
$3,899.00
#3
Canon EOS M50 Mirrorless Vlogging Camera Kit with EF-M 15-45mm Lens, Black
4.8 out of 5 stars 1,957

Jan 5, 2021*permalink

entoman

Kodak FunSaver doesn't have a mirror, so I'm afraid you're wrong, it *is* a mirrorless camera!

Jan 5, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Ouch.

Jan 5, 2021permalink

@Ric 360
Amazon ratings are useless garbage: https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/30/debunking-fake-news-again-amazons-sales-rankings-dont-mean-anything.aspx/

Jan 6, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

wjan, so you are saying the Kodak Funsaver is not most popular mirrorless camera? I am crushed. :)

(btw, completely agree)

Jan 6, 2021permalink

wjan, I think that the Nikonrumors post's opinion might be just an outburst of the bitterness of a Nikon fanb*y (the Nikonrumors admin), that Nikon products don't seem good enough to generate competitive sales figures these days.

Jan 9, 2021*permalink

@dpthoughts
I do not know about the outburst, but the facts from the post are straight. Stick to them.
Also a nice read on topic: https://qz.com/902504/how-to-become-a-best-selling-author-on-amazon-in-five-minutes-with-three-dollars/

Jan 9, 2021permalink

But this is the typical psychological argument pattern of disappointed fans 😅 Amazon is a very good indicator, but it is not the absolute perfection. This 5% deviance between a real "very good" indicator, and a theoretical "absolute perfect" indicator, is then misused to deny all 100% of the real indicator altogether 😉

Pentaxians are also good in doing that. I also have heard "Amazon is wrong, because I never buy my gear at Amazon" 😄

Jan 9, 2021*permalink

@dpthoughts
I again call for facts, I do not need your speculations. And the fact is, you can not rely on Amazon ranking at all. Here is the screenshot of a compact ILC section on Amazon Germany taken few minutes ago: https://g2.img-dpreview.com/10C86D6FFDC244F5990B33FCCFC917C7.jpg
Some IP camera tops the list! :) How can you take these bestsellers seriously after that?

Jan 10, 2021permalink

This is only due to some articles just being assigned in the wrong category. You can safely just ignore those. After you ignored these, then the 95% indicator quality rises up to 100% again. Easy 😉

Some Nikon fanboys are like climate change deniers. Also those say "climate change is wrong, because we don't have a 100% perfect indicator yet" 🙈

Jan 10, 2021*permalink

@dpthoughts
I'm sorry, but how can you believe a rating which regularly contains items from wrong categories? They can't even populate it properly. Moreover, and this is a much more important issue, the algorithm of ranking is NOT KNOWN. You can clearly see from the screenshot that not a single Canon ILC is in the top 20 list which is weird, as they are No. 1 for market share after all.
So, again it is you who are acting like climate change deniers, not me.
BTW, I am not a Nikon fanboy, I shoot with Canon too (see my gear list).

Jan 14, 2021permalink