We had the chance recently to spend some time shooting with the Leica Q. The Q is a rangefinder-style camera that sports a 28mm F1.7 fixed lens and a 24MP full-frame CMOS sensor. The DPReview staff was quite enamored with the Q, both in a practical sense, as well as aesthetically. As such, we decided to share some of our first impressions, while also taking a closer look at what makes the Q so appealing.
The Q's 28mm F1.7 lens and full-frame 24MP sensor have been optimized for one another, resulting in incredibly sharp images, edge to edge. In general, the Q seems to be the perfect marriage of modern camera technology and classic camera styling. Features like touch-to-focus and face detect work quite well, but for the purest, the Leica Q is also quite easy to manually focus.
In the few days we had with the Leica Q, we attempted to shoot as much as we could with it. The majority of the images in the gallery below are Raw conversions, though we did include some out-of-camera JPEGs too.
Let us hope that the camera is capable of better raws (DNGs) than those posted for download over at PhotographyBlog.com.
Those are sharp, and surprisingly good at high ISOs, but they lack the good Leica colour and light.
So that means just a very good lens, not an optically amazing lens. Would be good if PhotographyBlog was shooting with an example of the Q that is in some way not complete.
Perhaps more raws will prove those examples outliers.
Interesting that many readers cannot figure out that the difference between a 35mm and 28mm lens can be managed by moving your feet
Also, if you want to see what the camera REALLY can do, go to Thorsten Overgaard's website - there are numerous reviews (in depth) with images that blow the mind, including a lot of low light work, as well as B&W images
I predict that this camera will become the stuff of legend for Leica
I see what you are saying, but moving your feet won't actually give the same perspective as using a longer lens. But, the good news is that Leica have already thought about this. The camera has a special mode which allows for 35mm frame lines to be projected in the viewfinder, much the same as in a traditional rangefinder. You can then frame your shot, and know that it will look good when cropped to match 35mm. This also gives the advantage of seeing outside of the frame during composition. Also an advantage of traditional rangefinders. And with the full frame sensor, you can crop from 28 to 35 and even to 50, and still get a perfectly acceptable image (for non pixel counters).
Dear UnitedNations- if I'm given the choice between blurring throughout the image due to handshake or camera shake, versus a bit of image degradation along the edges from using OIS, I'd easily choose to go with OIS!
UnitedNations- Lori Grunin , CNET's camera review editor, reported: "The 28mm f1.7 lens delivers beautiful bokeh, with smooth out-of-focus areas and round highlights. It displays excellent sharpness, across the entire aperture range and from edge to edge, with little fringing. Although Leica warned me that the optical image stabilization could degrade the corners somewhat, not an uncommon problem, but I didn't see any issues."
I think you're making much ado about nothing. It might show up on test charts, but in real world shooting, like the kind of street photography this camera will likely be used for, I think it's a total non-issue.
@UnitedNations- Uh...you're the one who has repeatedly stated that, "OIS in the Q is not for stills." Yes, those are your exact words. "...not for stills". You even accused someone of being "very confused" about the OIS. Are you now trying to backtrack your words?
As I said, I think you're blowing things out of proportion with your definitive and declarative statements. I would gladly accept a bit of corner degradation if it meant that the rest of the frame was sharp and steady. Besides, in most of the shooting situations for which this camera will be used, I doubt it would be noticed, if it appeared at all.
"You sound very confused. That OIS in the Q is not for stills. It causes image deterioration in the outer edges. Leica put that in for support for video mode."
Maybe you can post a link to what the Leica representatives have said, so that we can read for ourselves *exactly* what has been said, rather than having it filtered through you.
@maximme It is your right to have illusions as well to waste your money in products that say they are as good as Leica-dream on. Still you will not have a Leica except that you might eventually realise that you have spent your money in false statements.
I had the chance to try one out yesterday in the local shop. I must say, it's a beauty. I know a lot of people are not going to want or need this. That's fine, those who do - know why.
28 to me is the perfect balance. I call 24 wide, 35 is "normal" from what I'm used to. People get too pissy about focal length perspective distortion. In this era we're so used to wide angle pictures and the sensors offer so much detail to crop from that wider is better. 24 is pushing it for fixed lens but 28 is perfect.
I'm a bit hesitant to bandwagon on this camera so far. Although there is on doubt that for a Leica- it is a good deal, I wasn't satisfied with the high ISO banding that I saw on some of the sample images. That said, with it being wide angle, stabilized, there are less reasons to go to higher ISO's. However, if I'm going to drop $4,500.00 on a camera that has high ISO settings, I don't want to do so if those settings include banding.
So if I answer that question, and it doesn't coincide with what you define as high ISO, does that mean you'll attempt to invalidate my opinion on this matter?
Not to be rude, but my opinion is my opinion- I'm experienced enough to know exactly what I'm looking for in camera performance and stand by my opinion here. :)
No, but we can't form an opinion about this camera absent more raw examples.
If you want a better high ISO body, I'd recommend a Df or D750 with a 28mm f/2.0 Zeiss. But I'm sure you know about such options and clearly there's no AF going that route.
Every great thing in this world is not so great, if the price is not right. or said differently, Everything can be made to be great, if price is not an issue.
I suspect that multiple manufacturers can make a camera just as good, if they wished to charge the same money.
In technology, the art is in making great thing relatively affordable. This is primarily an item of luxury. One that happens to be a great camera.
Nope, not likely. That only happens when Leica is using re-badged Panasonic cameras. This is a Leica original, not a re-badged Panasonic. You don't see a Panasonic version of the Leica M or Leica T, do you?
I can only afford 20 year old Leica cameras. If the price was half of this. I can always stick a Red Dot on my RX-1 I suppose. This is the only digital Leica I have seen I have been interested in owning.
And the RX1 only has a very good lens, one with very slow AF.
While the Leica appears to have a better lens--awaiting more samples to come to a firm conclusion. Leica appears to have worked out a better manual focus system.
Come dpreview let's interview people who know what they are saying. In the UK the 28 summilux is £3979 and the Q is £2900 so the lens costs a third more
Why does this need a fixed mount? If one hacked it off and glued on a mount Id prefer it. Although presumably this camera bakes in the correction to make this lens look more awesome electronically?
You can bet the rear element near touches the sensor, thats why. Fixed lens cameras have an advantage over interchangable lens cameras because of that reason alone.
Another answer could be- if it were interchangeable, it would hurt sales of the interchangeable line :)
Yes, but if you did attack it with a dremel and removed the lens it wouldnt matter if it had nearly touched the sensor, whatever mount you glued on would be set farther away, with toilet roll tube extension. :-) I guess the shutter may be inside the lens.
yeah that could be cool. my thinking was people can get the latest updated sensor and processing keeping the most expensive piece of their cam (like its rangefinder and body) like it used to be with film cameras(it could make it timeless like those film leica M)
yeah Ricoh GXR had a good idea. To me the design was clunky. ie why i want the upgrade to be done by Leica service centers instead of users,so no plug and play like upgrade
Got mine, and I must say that Leica finally entered the 21st Century with this product. Quality is there, from the moment you open the box to the moment you look at the files. I won't write a review here, it's enough to say that this camera begs to be used, and it'a a joy to use.
If only they would have added a 35mm lens ;) Well I'm glad they didn't - otherwise I'd find myself tempted. Never been a big fan of 28mm in a fixed lens camera.... I've used some - and always found my X100 23mm (=35mm) lens far more useful on a fixed.
nice camera so... especially throwing in some modern... I'm not much a leica shooter (used to shoot some film Leicas years ago, but the price tag never was my range... ) but I can see why the Q is an interesting product.
If needed, the camera crops the image to a 35mm angle of view, and you can see the guide lines on the EVF for some rangefinder-style framing. Of course you have to accept a 16MP cropped file, and the perspective is not that of a real 35mm lens.
The perspective of the cropped 28mm pic is EXACTLY the same. You could not see any difference if you shoot on the exact same location with a 35mm (of course multiplying the aperture with the crop factor to get the same dof)!
"the perspective is not that of a real 35mm lens" ...the perspective will be the same - the DoF will be different from 35mm F1.7 lens on FF. PERSPECTIVE IS NOT DETERMINED BY PHYSICAL FOCAL LENGTH BUT BY AN EFFECTIVE ANGLE OF VIEW:-)
Then why is it, forgive my ignorance, that when I use a 28mm lens and get close enugh to a person to get some sort of "portrait".... the distortions caused by most 28mm will make it look slightly odd, but the same effect is FAR less pronounced at 35mm or 85mm or whatever. And cropping doesn't solve that.
I guess there's a bit more distortion with the 28mm than with a 35mm...
Perspective changes with working distance and you go much closer with wide angle:-) Another thing is optical distortion. A distortion is not a perspective thing, but an optical error - and tends to be more pronounced with wider angle lenses (and sometimes can be stlill visible after cropping).
If you shoot a person with 28mm and 85mm lenses from the SAME WORKING DISTANCE and then crop the 28mm lens to match the 85mm field of view, you will not see a difference in perspective. If you had a large format camera, where the 85mm lens will have the same FoV as 28mm on fullframe, you will again see the same perspective deformation you are used to see on your FF 28mm images.
@cameracist if I take a close up portrait, from 1 meter, with a 28mm lens, and then crop it to match the 35mm angle of view, does it look exactly the same as a portrait taken with a 35mm lens from 1 meter distance? Silly question perhaps, but I think it's not the same thing (I perhaps used the wrong word "perspective" though)
If the two lenses have a same optical distortion, it will look the same. If the distortion of one of them will be more pronounced (probably the 28mm) you could possibly see it even after cropping. But keep in mind that optical distortions can be corrected by software quite easily. Another thing - if you use the same aperture, the cropped image wil have more DoF than 'real' 35mm lens.
If you do a crop, you are at the same working disatnce, you only keep what is the angle of view of a 35mm at the same distance -> so same perspective. But If you want to have FF the same framing than the 35mm, you have to reduce this working distance with your 28mm, and that change perspective ;)
@cameracist and @le_alain that's what I wanted to write, but I used the wrong word, and it caused confusion, thank you. I should not look at photography websites while at work.. :)
There are several cameras with a 28mm fixed lense (and most phones have a wide angle ;) ) so there must be some people who like it. Does it have a crop mode that shows a 35mm-equivalent view like Ricoh's GR?
I'm surprised it doesn't have a threaded shutter button. No chance to add a soft-touch shutter release. Also surprised they don't offer a silver body in addition to the black one.
Just wait another year. There will undoubtedly be a silver chrome version, and likely an a la carte version where you get to choose the leather colour and texture.
@Rishi: I have a Coolpix A that I have to work to keep clean. First dust spots appeared within days. If it were only the Coolpix A I wouldn't worry, but owners of many other fixed lens cameras report dust problems too. I hate having to send it in for a cleaning.
I don't know how common it is, but I've had a dust problem with my Ricoh GRD IV for a while - I love the camera but that dust spot - extra prominent due to the small size of the sensor - is annoying. AFAIK not much you can do about it apart from sending it in.
It wouldn't stop me getting another fixed lens compact, though.
Those cameras have fully extending lens barrels. From the looks of it, the Q has an internally contained focusing design which would minimize the bellows effect of a barrel wheezing in and out, and thus, less chance/impetus for dust contamination.
My old Panasonic FZ50 has a non-extending barrel, but is now marred by a dust/condensation spot. How does one clean that?
Oh - and on topic - my reaction to the Q is that they've got it right at last. But I bought all my old Leica M3 & lenses second-hand, and got more than I paid when I sold them. Doubt if that will apply in this digital age.
@Archiver: It isn't just the cameras with extending lenses that are affected by dust. The RX1, for example, can have dust problems, as reported in the dpreview review of the RX1. I think every camera is susceptible, and with a fixed lens the camera must be disassembled to clean the sensor when dust does show up.
I think the grain is very uncommon for a digital camera, very organic... but that's just a spontaneous impression. It does remind me of my old Ricoh GR, which was awfully noisy but the quality of the noise was very organic, really different from other cams.
The clarity is kind of lacking. Not sure how good the lens is. $4200 is still a lot of money. The camera can only use one lens, that lens has to be extremely good.
After Phil sold this site to Amazon, he went out and bought a Leica...Barney may be following in his footsteps, just keep him away from those converted Hassys.
I went to the shop and had a hands on myself. My thoughts after this... After years of blaming Leica for departing from the photographer needs - I would say this is a great camera. The price is something to swallow and i guess many people who really want to have it can't get it (including me) . Anyway - after so many hype about some new cameras, this seems to be worth to buy and try to forget the price : ) but...The EVF still was not very convincing and I wonder why there is no improvement since everyone is calling this the future. ....I can imagine that this could be a camera to get and stop visiting dpreview for a couple of years.
What was your issue with the EVF? I have one Camera that has an EVF (the Olympus OM-D E-M1) and frankly I love that EVF - it's crisp, clear, very large (about the same as a Canon 1DS!), has great colours... it's fast... I just came back from three weeks on a motorcycle tour and the E-M1 was my only camera and honestly, there was not a single situation, neither with stills, moving or other subjects, neither at night or a mid-day full sunshine where the EVF did disappoint me. Quite to the contrary... it was excellent.
And the E-M1 isn't exactly the newest camera on the market - so I'd be surprised if Leica went for anything less than the one in the E-M1...
So what was it, that was off-putting for you about the EVF?
Over the years you've reviewed several real photography power houses, versatile offers from several brands, machines that have taken us into imaging levels never imagined but, more than 10-15 years after the advent of generalized digital photography Leica finally manages to come up with an interesting but application-limited and still quite expensive product that, for the very first time, departs from their almost-fraudulent performance-price ratio and seems to be a very valid, well specified proposition and THAT's when you decide to open your full-accolade, puerile enthusiasm box...?
Wow!...that little red dot REALLY has traction...
Should we expected the introduction of an all-new 120% Overall Score with a matching posh-neoteric Platinum Award?
"fraudulent performance-price ratio", the problem is that good Leica lenses are hard to beat so you really can't claim to know what is fraudulent.
With highend sports cars people pay half a million dollars more for not to much more performance, and that tiny bit is the kind of thing a Leica lens can deliver.
A Ferrari 458 is an amazing sports car, an F50 is something a good bit more.
There are other examples.
If you want to read a nice calm positive review of this Leica Q, there's Ming Thein.
Aside from the lack of the fuji hybrid viewfinder this is THE perfect large sensor compact.
Should I find myself more accepting toward EVF in a few years I might really replace my x100s with this beauty. I imagine that the price will reach 2 grand by then and that I could live with :)
Seems like you don't appreciate Leica? Fine, but spare us the exaggeration... Yes, Leica makes expensive products, we get it. It was always the case, no news there. Saying the Q is the really only interesting camera made by Leica in the last 10-15 years??? Have you been under a rock, isolated?
Which is more expensive: changing a 1000-3000 USD camera every year, or every 2 years, or buy a Leica and change every 5-6 years?
Let's not kid ourselves. Many ppl in switzerland pay 2'000$ for an iphone 6 with their contract (that's the "benefits of flatrates" included, compared to prepaid plans) but they would never be honest with themselves about that.
And yes, they switch phones yearly or every two years and pay for two iphones as much as this camera would cost..
C'mon, call me an "hater", you know you want it. After all, that's the "Net Hail Mary" to suppress any "dissident" opinion...
Leica would just be another brand, as far as I am concerned, if it was not for fact that they willfully and knowingly embrace, propagate and take commercial advantage of the one of the most nefarious concepts in photography: That it is the brand/type of camera that makes a good photographer.
I can taste the "salt in Sebastian" in EVERY single review that is made of a Leica camera. There is no other instance where reviewers send objectivity down the drain, than when they are making a "red dot appraisal". They suddenly start shooting in B&W and hitting the "Contrast" key like crazy in a ridiculous attempt to replicate something that they have seen but can't not really understand.
...the EXTREMELY funny thing is that even Salgado, himself does not use Leicas these days. He must have discovered (...or some pious soul must have told him...) how sub-standard digital photography tools Leica cameras have been up until now.
"Which is more expensive: changing a 1000-3000 USD camera every year, or every 2 years, or buy a Leica and change every 5-6 years?"
This is a trick question, right?...Because even Leica comes out with a new "M" about every 2 years.
...Even when they had nothing to advance and just "Edition" products for their very discerning customers.
"Leica would just be another brand, as far as I am concerned, if it was not for fact that they willfully and knowingly embrace, propagate and take commercial advantage of the one of the most nefarious concepts in photography: That it is the brand/type of camera that makes a good photographer."
This tells me you do not appreciate and understand the role of Leica in the last 100 years or so. Their cameras and lenses are expensive because they are still, to a large extent, assembled and quality controlled by hand in Europe. QC has a cost. You just have to hold a Leica camera or lens to notice the difference. Am I willing to rationally spend that money? No, I prefer to buy cheaper Sony A7 and used Leica lens:) But I also bought a Leica Typ 113, that has one of the best lenses I have ever used. And I could afford it. They must be doing something wright, as Leica are one of the few camera companies turning a profit...
Really? I at least offered a reason why Leica products are more expensive then other ones; I at least gave my experience about a rationale regarding Leica products and what I bought, and why. You, on the other hand, just keep fluffing away...
And finally, someone dissing Leica because they release too expensive photo gear, is intelligent? I was not patronizing, I was providing facts to the discussion. Apparently, you don't like to hear the truth on your high mountain seat, ok, go to the beach, it is pretty hot today:)
Lots of people do not have money to buy Leica, including me (well, at least M system). That does not prevent me to appreciate the quality, workmanship, and ethos, of their product line. The Q is a fantastic camera and lens, as are the M cameras, and many others. And no, it is not the red dot.
Yourself, why do you use L lenses with your Canons? You could get the same results with cheaper lenses, could you not? Or cheaper cameras. It is all relative, is it not?
All you say is factual and pertinent. I invite you to ponder on how relevant is what I wrote IN SPITE of those perspectives.
For the sake of future conversations, try not to jump to the conclusion and obnoxious claim that others fail to "appreciate" or "understand" whatever you believe in, or anything that you believe being the only one informed about.
That's usually an off-putting stance that, bar from the intention of having the other party "shut-up, shut-up, shut-up!" while childishly putting virtual hands over ones ears, serves no other purpose.
As for going to the beach, it won't happen today.
I will visit the "NOVO BANCO Photo 2015" exhibition to further consolidate my perception on how photography-as-an-art-form can be manipulated for pure commercial gain, a perspective that, believe it or not, is fully understood and played for dubious effect by Leica.
I shoot a 1Ds body out of pure lust for perfect craftmanship (and the control layout, battery life and AF-system) and can totally understand people wanting the same in a compact camera.
Additionally, I live in Europe and know that life here is more than ten times the cost of what it is in china. So, insisting on fair trade and local production and fighting outsourcing of jobs and stuff should go hand in hand with the readiness to pay these peoples salaries and help them exist in europe!
I, too, cannot justify the prize of an M, but that's because I got used to the cheap offers from Asia and because they can be had even cheaper used. And Leicas usually don't..
How much money do you people think German factory workers make? Fuji cameras are made in Japan. German GDPPC 46k USD, Japan GDPPC 39k USD.
Anybody who think the price of their Leica camera is justified by magical German labour, is extremely naive.
Leicas are expensive because that is Leica's business and strategy. Plain and simple. If you want to buy their marketing and have cash to spare, good for you. Justify your purchase however you want, that doesn't make it true.
German factory workers are paid better than Japanese workers.
Yes, Leica charges a premium, but one does get better lenses for that. And good Leica lenses weren't always made in Germany, there was a Canadian factory for years.
I'm a Canadian living in Shanghai. My cost of living here is significantly higher than my cost in Canada. I pay $1200 U.S. a month to rent a one bedroom apartment. In suburban Toronto you can rent a whole house for that much money, and in downtown, a two bedroom on a waterfront. If I had a family and required a larger space, the cost would be significantly higher still. Restaurants in Shanghai are more expensive than restaurants in Toronto.
Obviously this doesn't reflect all of China, but anyone who think living is China is "ten time" cheaper than living in Europe, has never been to China.
And a full frame fuji compact is how much again? The x100s was 1'500 something and given the cost of the larger sensor and better/faster lens that covers a larger sensor why shouldn't 4 grand be justified for the Leica?
After all, FX vs DX have always been roughly double to triple the prize when looking at body + lens
Indeed it is interesting that the whole combo costs less than the 28mm summilux, but the summilux will be screwed on to a newer M in 5 or 10 years, while this Q will probably be in a camera shop shelf as a relic.
@Wilight @EduardoKleinFichtner Did I ever say that its a bad lens, too slow or anything negative? I just explained the difference in cost. The more you have to correct the more expensive it gets.
The Q 28/1.7 lens is somewhere in the middle between the lux and cron.
Leica Summilux-M 28mm f/1.4 is $5950 Leica Summicron-M 28mm f/2.0 is $3780 Leica Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 is $1980
If you ask me they should have gone for a 28/2.8 elmarit to make it much smaller and 1-2 grand cheaper.
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