Sony has released Sky HDR, a new PlayMemories app for capturing landscape scenes that have wide ranging levels of brightness. Sky HDR aims to replace a graduated ND filter, with various adjustment 'themes' along with control over exposure and white balance of sky and landscape areas separately.
Sky HDR works by capturing two different exposures of the same scene and combing them into a single image. The interface, demonstrated in the video above, is tailored to landscape photography, and resulting photos can be saved as JPEG or Raw files. The app is available for $10, and is compatible with the following cameras:
Sony NEX-5R
Sony NEX-6
Sony NEX-5T
Sony a7
Sony a7R
Sony a6000
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III
Sony a7S
Sony a5100
Sony a7 II
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 IV
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 II
Sony a7R II
Sony a7S II
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R II.
Sky HDR can be purchased from Sony's PlayMemories website.
How sensitive is this app to movement? I have only tried it ata couple of locations and found that I could not get a sharp image. Initially I put the problem down to movement of a small boat even if the water looked perfectly calm but there were no objects that could move on the second attempt. I did not have a remote release at the time but find it hard to believe that out of all the shots I took none of the images aligned properly. Is there an adjustment that needs to be made to ensure the mages are aligned. It is also a pity that the two original shots were not available afterwards to manually align if necessary. One other dissapointment was that the image created was not a raw file. I will retry again but if there are any adjustments or way to recover the original individual files I would love to hear of it.
Yes it costs money and i don't like the app system but it makes things actually much much easier. Why? There are multiple forms of creating this effect.
1. Physical Filters. Downside: You need multiple strengths and multiple feathering etc... so many things to carry around and a hassle to work with if you want to change things quickly
2. Single RAW pushing the dynamic Range. Works but its very limited. You can't achive very strong ND-Effects
3. Multiple bracketed images HDR: This is not the same effect as an graduated ND-Filter and will give you different results.
4. Multiple bracketed images: Combined by layers an masks etc... Gives you the same result but takes a lot of time. I often take images and never process them because i'm to lazy. So only a good way if you take your time to work with the files.
5. Sony Sky HDR: Does exactly the Same as Version 4 but allready in camera and is super fast and easy. For me the best way
OMG, not one comparison using the three methods talked about. Using the Sky app, one doing it in PP and one using physical filters, but a whole lot of BS. Come on guys/gals give some examples and let's settle this discussion once and for all.
It's the real deal! If you add up ND filters in 0.3, 0.6, 0.9, 1.2 strength, both hard and soft, including blue and sunset kits in various strengths, filter holders, adapters for assorted lenses (WA and Normal), this 10 dollar app replaces thousands of dollars worth of filters!
For another $5 you can get "Smooth Reflections" which gives the "big stopper" effect (long shutter speeds) of silky waterfalls and mirror like rivers and lakes. Since you're not putting anything in front of the lens, expect superior quality, and feel free to bring a lens shade!
In addition, a hidden benefit. If you start out with highly detailed images, post processing utilities like tiffen Dfx or Nik can be used very effectively to create pro quality, seriously revamped images. This is how I add stripes!
Are the two images taken concurrently or one after the other, i.e. what if there is moving action in the scene such as people walking, or boats moving down a river?
It takes two images. I don't know what it does, but it is like magic. I took a photo of a moving train at sunset yesterday evening and it kept the train in focus every time it merged the files....I will need to test more to figure out exactly how it is doing it.
It would definitely make consumers more satisfied, but no other camera on the market has this capability and the app is not just a simple touch and go. It is very robust and ha a lot of functionality. I only say this after purchasing it and testing it myself...but $10 is definitely a steal!
I actually installed the crapware on my computer, or at least it said I did. But when I went to pay my money for the app, it said I couldn't until I installed the crapware I had already installed.
Sony's history with PC software has been notorious, and for me this has turned out to be just one more chapter.
I did comment about the cost. But got the app and tried it. Its actually not bad. Consider those highlight and shadow slider in lightroom. Its almost like that but the DR is definitely better which one may get with brushes and layers.
A pretty good app if you know its limitations and know how to manage those borders between your top and bottom layer.
$10? That's one of the reasons I am not getting a camera from Sony. One would think they'd be interested in promoting their own products by expanding their capabilities and instead they charge premium prices for quite basic apps.
Sony is a weird company. When it comes to hardware - they're amazing, but their marketing and software departments are stuck in the previous century. They've killed a number of own great hardware products already and it seems they still have not learned anything from it.
Sony charges premium prices, for premium gear...and $10 for an app that will allow you to do something that no camera on the market can do...is a pretty darn good deal.
Smart phones aren't cameras, but if you still want to draw false analogies and compare different types of devices, then yes, first-party apps for smartphones are in fact free most of the time. And some of them offer way more, than Sony does with its 10$ app. Because smartphone manufacturers realize how important it is to support their audience and promote their own gear in a pretty saturated market full of competition.
Sony, on the other hand, learns nothing from their previous mistakes and treats its customers as cash-cows.
What a shame the only way to install this on your camera is by installing Sony's crapware on your computer. Nope. Not in million years. I'm old enough to remember the Sony Music CD rootkit scandal years ago. Since then, nothing even remotely Sony-related gets anywhere near my computer.
" I'm old enough to remember the Sony Music CD rootkit scandal years ago. " Me too...Sony paid for that mistake and moved on, as companies do. It's one of the ways we learn.
Could you explain how to install the app from the camera? I have the RX100 M3 and the link on this site took me to a page that indicated I couldn't download the app without installing their downloader.
Like Wick Smith, I followed the link in the article and was presented with the Sony Download Manager installation page. Nowhere on that page did it offer an alternative method to install the app on the camera. My mistake. We seem to have some highly strung people in DP Review forums these days. Chill out folks, there are more important things in this world...
There's an app store sort of thing built into the camera menu, look for it and open it up and follow directions from the app, it isn't rocket science people
I can't imagine how an app for a camera has generated so much discussion. Most of you use apps all the time in your phone - some good, some bad. How many of those have you installed, didn't like and uninstalled. Or it still sits in your phone unused. Now a camera can have an apps. One comes out and it creates a firestorm...???? Who knew?
Back in the day (yes there were days before today) one used to stand at their easel in the darkroom, moving a piece of cardboard vigorously to create a seamless transition between the land and the sky, blocking the light on the land and allowing more light to expose the sky on the photo paper. It took 5 or more tries to get it right. Then some technology came along that created a filter that could do the same during exposure in camera. Then Photoshop came along and you could do it, as someone wrote here "properly" Now there is an app. So what's the big deal??
I think a lot of photographers here are older and more conservative, or they are *getting* older and more conservative. I think if you asked your average 20-something-year-old, they'd probably say, "Cool!" Unfortunately, with the older, more conservative, curmudgeon crowd here, the response has been "No, no, no, you shouldn't do it that way. That's not the *proper* way to do it." I think it's a generational thing. Like when smartphones first started appearing without physical keyboards (gasp!).
I agree with you T3. And at 63, I've learned to use it if it works for you and don't if it doesn't. But don't disparage just for the sake of it...Cheers
I totally agree with T3 above, I am one of those have been dreaming about one day we can all leave our ND,, GND filter behind, we have some high DR sensor now, so we are half way there, but still plenty of time I have to use ND, GNDs, it's not even about the cost, it's a real pain to carry all those around, I have a dedicated filter system for my 14-24G, this damn thing is HUGE, and expensive, 165mm X 200, the whole package of the holder, adapter ring and 4 or 5 of those filter added up costing more than the lens itself, then I have a standard Lee system for everything else, so every time I go out just all the filter takes a small camera bag already. so I am always dreaming one day we can do this via some in camera software filter, and here we are, we are almost there. by the way, I am not even that young and started my photography life with Canon AE1 and Nikon FM. but I do work in the high tech industry dealing with wafer and stuffs like that.
It sounds good in principle but I don't know how the results compare to doing the same thing in post, not much point I'd it's noticeably worse.
Anything to avoid having to line those damn grad filters up with the horizon properly (especially with an evf) is a bonus but I get the feeling we won't be able to discard them entirely utility we have sensors that can control the exposure duration of individual pixels. Even with good post processing it can be difficult to match the quality of a good grad filter and pretty time consuming.
COOL! I had this exact idea several years ago; my thought was a built-in menu feature that would allow it to work via touch-screen LCD function. You would tap the bright area like the sun/sky, and it would simply prompt you to select the size and shape of the area where you wanted to change exposure, and then choose the brightness level.
Glad to see someone did it. Too bad I don't own a camera company or I could have been first... Great touch with the adjustable WB for each region. I shoot Nikon but Sony is really producing some incredible, innovative stuff.
One of the reasons why smartphones are so popular for photography is that smartphones have apps that allow people to access a whole range of tools for editing their images, all right there in a single device, without transferring the image to your computer. The whole "do it later in PS or LR" attitude is not helping the camera industry compete with smartphone cameras that are getting more and more powerful and convenient. That attitude is an old way of thinking, and doesn't quite fit with the immediacy of today's photography world. Cameras need these kinds of apps, and more of them, so that they can have the same abundant tools that smartphone users currently enjoy. When people take photos with their smartphones, they don't think "I'm going to edit it later in Photoshop." Nope, today's smartphone shooters immediately open up their favorite photo editing app and do it right then and there. That's the power of apps on your device. Immediacy and convenience.
@T3 - You're right, to a point. Smartphones are great for taking and modifying snaps that you want to send to your friends or upload to your Facebook account. These are very limited display environments that don't show smartphone camera image limitations. Try blowing one of those images up to a 36" by 48" wall print and you'll see what I mean.
Smartphones are very useful in some situations and for some applications. They are not an adequate replacement for a fully functional high quality camera.
Nobody is saying smartphones and large sensor DSLRs will give equivalent quality. The point it an increasingly higher number of people simply don't care.
As it is less and less people are printing their photos. They are mostly sharing on FB or Flickr and the differences in cameras are less apparent on such a medium.
Sales of cameras are dropping every year. If camera makers continue doing exactly what they are doing cameras will become a small niche segment in a decade or two like how medium format cameras are perceived today.
These apps are no real replacement for a dedicated image processing software like Adobe but less and less people want to bother with such large clunky softwares these days.
@Rbrt - I'm not saying that smartphones and DSLRs deliver the same IQ. I'm saying that smartphones deliver a level of convenience and a range of tools (in the form of apps) that makes the whole process of taking and finalizing an image so easy and effective. Most people don't care how a smartphone image or a DSLR image looks when blown up to 36" x 48". 99% of keeper images will never be printed that large (if at all). Most people don't care about that. What most people care about is that a good image can be taken, edited, and shown/uploaded-- conveniently. That's what smartphones do so much more effectively than stand-alone phones. Smartphones keep getting better and more powerful. If stand-alone cameras don't adapt and evolve, they are going to increasingly be niche devices that more and more people will ignore, which will probably mean higher camera prices, which will cause even more people to ignore them. Cameras need to evolve, or they'll be left behind.
You are right but I've been an enthusiastic amateur photographer for many decades and even back in the day there was the Instamatic crowd and there was the Nikon/Canon/Pentax... crowd. Not saying that smartphone images can't have a big impact - they can and do, but they are a different form of photographic art.
@Rbrt - back then, the main form of photo viewing was the print, and there was a big difference in quality when viewing prints from Instamatics vs Nikon/Canon/Pentax. These days, the main form of photo viewing is on digital screens, such as tablets, smartphones, and monitors. I see so many great images on my various device screens, and it's getting harder and harder to tell if the image was shot on a smartphone or a stand-alone camera. I think that's a good thing. Plus, we also now have smartphone images being displayed on billboards (thanks to Apple's "Shot on iPhone" campaign). You never had that with Instamatics. The point is that the gap between smartphone photography and stand-alone camera photography is a lot less than it was with Instamatics in the past. The other point is that stand-alone cameras need to adapt to the changes we are seeing in technology and user behavior, otherwise they will increasingly become niche devices for a niche "crowd".
You're right. A lot of people don't care. But then a lot of people never really did care.
Medium format cameras have always been a very specialized market. They've lost some ground because "35mm" digital imaging now supports much higher resolution images than was ever possible with film cameras. Also, medium format makers have been too slow to go digital and, when they did, they stumbled - most notably Hasselblad.
The differences in camera are indeed less apparent with flickr and facebook because you're looking at them with the same sort of device that was used to take them. I look at flickr photos on the large screen monitor I use for managing my DSLR photos and I can tell immediately without checking the informatino provided whether I'm looking at a smartphone snap or a DSLR image.
High quality digital imaging will always have a market.
The problem with smartphones, aside from image quality, is that they don't have anywhere near the depth of versatility you see in a dedicated camera. With a camera you have a huge number of permutations of ISO, shutter speed, lens focal length, lens aperture, lighting options and so on.
Yes you see some great smartphone images but go to any sports event and what do you see? Dozens of guys with cameras. You don't see many sports photographers holding up a smartphone. Ditto fashion photography, design applications (e.g. those big wall prints), architectural photography, news photography, advertising copy... In fact a smartphone is pretty much useless unless your subject is an arm's length away because they have very wide angle lenses. Great for holiday snaps, part-ay snaps and selfies. Quite limited otherwise.
I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.
Yeah, for a while I thought Sony was being tone-deaf by charging $0.99 or $5.00 for their camera apps but I believe their aim is to create an app store and by getting everyone to enter their payment details they can eventually attract 3rd party developers. It would be more difficult if every app they created was free.
Remember when everything on a car was add-on. But there is no going back in the marketplace as a whole: technology gives up the app and the subscription model easily sold and enforced-and the commercial allure is just so great.
probably kigathi is right.. however i really hate this business model, it can (hope not) end up to some "buy your camera for 1000$" but it has ony auto mode ... do you want custom ISO? ... pay 10$, do you want shutter control feature? ... 10$, do you want "face detect" AF? ... 10$ .
I know you don't want or use a lot of features in a camera... but trying and installing apps to use different features that a camera should have embedded in their firmware just seems too irritating for me.
@badi - You are missing the point. None of these apps are essential to shooting. A remote or most processing software can easily do the same thing.
NO other camera manufacturer even offers this right now.
The only app that Sony should have included as a feature is the intervalometer since thats a pretty expensive add on and there is no real workaround for that if you want to shoot something like star trails unless you are physically present there to keep pressing the shutter button for every photo.
This app for instance can possibly be done better in Photoshop or some other processing software. Its there only for a few people who don't want to be bothered with processing.
Brendon, same as viva, you didn't get my point.... maybe i wasn't clear enough, but what i said (or tried to) is: "IF this business model will be successful" (i do repeat, *IF*), then a lot of features of the camera will migrate through apps slowly, ending up in a big annoyance.
It's not the price of the app the problem (as i said - price of camera 1000$ price of several apps ... 20-30-50-100$), however this could change, and the camera could be half or less the price of the total of "must have" or "nice to have" apps for it. Also it depends on what you see as "essential for shooting" ... most advanced features or smart stuff are not (do you think face detect AF is "essential"?).
Sure, if you look from another POV you could also find positive arguments, like "having features on a camera that you would never get a firmware update for" ... but that's mostly marketing BS.
It is just that this "app" concept is invading, permeating commerce. Now, Apple makes you go through the App Store for basic software updates on many or most things. Wonder when Windows updates will go through the Windows store, also. I must get 8-10 emails a day-"download our app."
@badi - I think you are putting an negative spin on something that most people who actually use these apps as positive.
Plus these are apps that work independently rather than a feature like face detect.
If Sony does do what you say and withhold features then people will simply start switching systems.
Right now I see it as this. Other manufacturers aren't doing anything for existing customers while Sony has a nice app store that I can use the apps that I really find useful and its a one time purchase that lasts for a few camera upgrades.
For a Sony user like me I like the direction Sony is going. To be fair I don't find any of the apps useful to me except for the touches shutter which I use often which also happens to be a free app ! :)
I wonder if those who complain about $10 for an app from Sony have ever in their life bought an app for their smart phone from Apple or Google Play or whatever...???
People not familiar with Sony might not know that the cameras can upload directly to Sony's photo site, Facebook, and Flickr, over WiFi. With that it makes perfect sense for Sony to put more post processing features into the camera in an attempt to compete with the conveniences of smart phone photography.
The APS-C cameras are still pretty small packages, so it also isn't that hard to beleive that the market for these cameras would appreciate not having to carry a filter set to do the same as this app. The people commenting about using a filter set instead are likewise probably not part of the market for these cameras and haven't considered this in their posts.
@MikeFL Only the best selling APS-C MIRRORLESS--which is not very difficult, since the only competing brands in that segment currently are forget-low-end Fuji, nah-we-didn't-really-want-to-be-doing-cameras-anyway Samsung and not-trying-very-hard Canon.
If you look at the entire ILC category, the a6000 gets whupped by Nikon D3300 and Canon T5. (If I had to pick among these three models I'd probably prefer the a6000 myself, but we're talking about the choice of people, not ours.)
Every body knows that Canon is not only the #1 camera mfc in the world, but also the most profitable one.
Will SONY catch up Cankon in the sales volume finally? I do not see it is possible b/c relative low volume makes SONY hard to cut the price more especially lenses for price advantage which Cankon has.
Forget about Samsung, I tried NX1 when it was being just released, rough at best. NX1 has a good sensor, but sensor advantage is very temperate thing for users consider to committed to a system cam. 4K is just better than nothing. High MP has PROs and CONs as we all know.
NX1 may be much better now after multiple FW release, but seems only few care now.
Samsung never lean to do the right thing in the first place.
BTW, a6000 is the only sub-frame SONY with EVF currently available while there are a lot of CanKon in this price range while you consider total sales volume for one cam against army of CanKon.
Above is my answer to your "If you look at the entire ILC category.."
So basically this is an app that mimics gradient filters - by using different exposures just like HDR does. But without the benefit of actually using a filter and without the benefit of real HDR (which the cameras can already do btw). And it costs 10$.
Kudos to Sony if they can actually con anyone into buying this nonsense instead of using the already existing (and much better) features of their cameras - or doing it properly in PP.
Gradients do deliver a certain look that can be preferable over HDR, depending on the situation. And it beats having to actually carry around physical filters. First of all, you don't have to hassle with a ND Grad filter holder or the filters themselves. Secondly, with the app, you can adjust the ND amount as well as the gradation boundary size. With physical filters, that would entail carrying numerous square filters of different ND values, as well as different grad boundary transitions (hard or soft transition). Frankly, I can do without "the benefit of actually using a [physical] filter", because physical filters are a hassle, and generally can't be used with the hood in place. And I like the option of doing HDR, or using this grad method.
You also have to keep in mind that the resulting file can be a RAW file, which allows additional PP. As far as I know, there are no cameras that do in-camera HDR that results in a RAW file. I believe most cameras output in-camera HDR as a JPEG.
To : Christian Unger ... without any prejudice ... It seems like, that you have a little knowledge in the nowadays in the digital world of photography. But no worries with a little bit of will you will get there ...
good to hear. maybe then I'll understand why one would need a 10$ app to do something that you can easily do in post processing, with a lot more possibilities (and for free, if necessary).
but maybe you can explain what exactly is the benefit of this app, when compared to processing your files later on. or maybe on a mobile / tablet.
I'd rather have a proper, native WiFi tethered shooting possibility (from camera to tablet) than a dozen apps which do things you should be able to do in one single app on your smartphone.
@Christian Unger - there's more than one way to skin a cat. What do you have against giving people different options for achieving a desired result? If you want to do it one way, and another person wants to do it another way, what's the big deal? Why does it bother you so much? LOL.
"Ok, the app is convenient, and might be useful if you don't want to process separate RAWs and blend the result manually, but that's about it."
That's like saying, "Ok, a tripod keeps the camera steady, but that's about it!" Sometimes, "it" is enough. I have a lot of tools in my toolbox that only do one thing ("that's about it"). But I still find them worthwhile to have.
Sure, you're right - anyway, it would still be nice to see a more complete approach when it comes to in-camera processing. Right now it's more like a patchwork made of small 10$ apps.
"Benefits of using a filter" ? LOL Like having to fiddle with filters, any IQ degradation involved when adding extra glass to your lens unless you pay good $$$ for a very good quality filter which I doubt you will since you are complaining about a measly $9 lol Some people here seem to wake up with the only mission of finding something to whine about. Just because YOU may not find a use for it does not mean its stupid or useless. There are TONS of things in Photography I have no use for but I am not egocentric enough to think that nobody else will have a use for them either ;)
well Chris you can't put other people in the same box with you, there are gonna be a lot of people that have different level of expertise, or different need, or different chore, etc etc that will find this app is valuable.
I bought the app right away, why? Hmmmm, dunno yet but I'm sure I'll make good use of it. Mixing it with real grads maybe. I'm not rich, buy hey it's just 10 USD. :-)
This is ridiculous. My GNDs are gathering dust. They were a freaking pain to use in the field.
More and more people are ditching the DSLR and being happy with a smartphone because in todays complicated world less people are willing to take the effort to use a clunky software like Photoshop to process their photos.
I know a professional photographer who uses a D810 and an arsenal of lenses for interior work but takes along a Sony RX100 for family trips as he wants something that is easy to carry around and share photos quickly with friends.
This app is not a proper replacement for Photoshop but is something to allow a person to use it and immediately get a good photo on the camera itself which can then be shared via Wifi for uploading to FB.
As an amateur landscape photographer myself I will never use such an app but I know a lot of my friends who wouldn't mind something like. HDR is also an option but this gives you greater control to place the horizon line.
"I know a professional photographer who uses a D810 and an arsenal of lenses for interior work but takes along a Sony RX100 for family trips as he wants something that is easy to carry around and share photos quickly with friends. "
That pretty much says it all. When he cares about his shots, he's not using the Sony and some apps. Back to the real camera and "clunky" (read: powerful) Photoshop.
^^ And thats exactly why camera sales are declining every year. Professionals are but a small fraction of people who buy cameras. If camera manufacturers only target those small audience and ignore the overwhelmingly large other market then camera sales will continue to keep declining till bulky DSLRs go the way of medium format and remain a small very expensive niche market.
Apps like these are a small step in trying to make photography more fun for those who don't care for the ultimate IQ but want something better than a P&S.
I'm fine with that. I've known for years that people don't give a d#$% about quality anymore. You think apps are going to make them start caring again? Nah. They'll keep racing to the bottom while people who care keep the market afloat.
You seem to be confusing camera sales with DSLR sales. DSLRs are not declining, they're strong as ever. And Photoshop is a professional's tool. It shouldn't dumb itself down to try to appeal to these 5-second attention spanners.
I've bought Sony's timelapse app in the past and used it a couple of times, but what a torturous process it is. You can't make it run as part of a custom function, there are no shortcuts in Sony firmware.
Not to mention there is no touchscreen to easily change presets. Not to mention, if Sony's software developers had brains in the right place, apps could have been integrated into scenes menu where you just scroll to get to one of the installed apps, instead of going through deep menu structure.
Also how many tried registering the app store right on the camera? Sony is forcing you to enter your long passwords via scroll wheel in some clunky embedded browser that they are running, instead of say waiting in camera and authorizing it on the web on your phone via Sony's own app or web browser.
Sony can design fantastic hardware, but when it comes to software they are complete idiots. Did you try to upgrade camera firmware from Mac?...
why so many whingers. If u want it get it, dont get it. If u thk it should have been included in the cam fair enough, just dont buy into the system. looking forward to see how it compares to a grad filter. (or should they have included that with the camera)
Indeed. When they bought the camera they knew EXACTLY what came with it and if they bought it then it means they accepted the product for the money so whining now because we get this OPTIONAL , yes OPTIONAL features its just childish. I am with you guys.
Sure, and the comments section should be reserved exclusively for praises, joy and Sony worshiping. Anyone who disagrees is just a "whinger", obviously.
There is always some "arbiter" of the comments section that just has to tell everyone what they should and shouldn't do.
And that, kids, is what you can do for free by just making your own HDR in LR or any other software you probably already own. Plus, you have full control over it.
I personally like the fact that the app can output a RAW or JPEG file with this effect applied. It's also valuable if you're taking several shots of a particular scene. You just set up the in-camera grad filter, then take as many shots as you want, with the effect applied each time. Once you've set up the in-camera grad and exposure settings properly, you're basically able to output a finished product. People have to realize that the advice of "do it in Lightroom later" isn't necessarily the best option for everyone all the time. If I can get my images near to "finished" in-camera, that's a big convenience, especially if I'm shooting a lot of images. It's the old "get it right in camera" philosophy, which to me translates to being able to "shoot more and edit less." I don't think there's anything wrong with paying $10 for an app that allows me to get an image closer to a "get it right in camera" state. I see that as a big timesaver...easy to recoup that $10! Time is money!
"OMD-EM5.MK2 ( and EM5 that I own too) have more issues than other cams I own."
My experience of the Mk II is the exact opposite of yours, although I agree the original E-M5 it replaced certainly had more than its fair share of annoyances.
Can you give me a list of older Olympus models that will get this supposed firmware? One that goes from low to high-end and 2012 models like the NEX-5?
When I had my 5N, I hated it the Touch Screen (accidental touch), when I upgraded to the NEX-6 then A6000 I missed it, its a pain entering info without the touch screen....crazy right?
I have the a5100, the touch screen is off by default on my a5100, I only turn it on when I need it. Otherwise, you could have a disaster when you touch the display by accident.
If you're running Windows 10 and use Microsoft Edge, Chrome, Firefox or Opera DON'T bother you can't download the apps from Playmemories even if you are prepared to pay because the download software just goes through a constant loop of installing then telling you its not installed on your PC. Common problem on the Sony Network Community Forum apparently.
It should actually be cleaner than the Grad filter in ACR/LR, since you can adjust exposure parameters instead of pushing one file. For instance you could expose the sky at 1/50 and the ground at 1 sec, so you'll retain shadow detail and keep noise low.
Yes, if you take two shots it will give similar results with more control over the horizon. Original question was about using the grad filter in post though.
With other camera manufacturers you get these kind of updates for free in a firmware upgrade.
Oh no sorry....this is called an 'App', so they can charge you for the upgrade.
As basically this is nothing more then a single (paid) feature firmware upgrade as you still need to install this onto your camera and there is no open SDK for 3rd party developers available either.
Smart marketing move by Sony to call a paid single feature update that installs like a firmware an 'App'.
Great please let us know all the camera guys who offer this. And no please don't say HDR which gives you zero control over the output cause Sony has that for free. I mean something which gives you control over the horizon line.
You can save the 10$ and buy a Cokin or Lee Graduated ND filters set - a holder, 2~3 adapter rings for different lenses, 2~3 filter for as low as 150$...
@ZeevK - You can save yourself the 10 dollars and do it in post by not doing this within the camera. No need with fiddling on a tiny 3" screen on the back of your camera in full sunny conditions where its hard to read out what you exactly see on the LCD on the back of your camera.
Saves you on battery power as well. Which is already kind of problematic with any mirrorless system.
I can't understand any basis for criticism. If a company is going to continually develop new features for cameras I already own I am more than happy to pay $5- $10 to select the features I want. I really needed the time lapse feature and was happy to get it for $10. Yes one can buy a remote control cable with time lapse for other cameras for a lot more cost. And those cables have to bad carried with you, attached and they are harder to program and use.
BTW Sony added touchless shutter and other features for free. And a Sony a6000 with 16050 zoom is very inexpensive.
The reality is that most cameras don't get an "upgrade" at all, paid or free. I'm a lifelong Canon user, and I don't recall Canon ever offering such an "app" or "upgrade" for any of the numerous Canon DSLRs i've owned. Frankly, I'm glad Sony gives us this option. So to complain about a company offering such an option is really childish and petty.
As for your comment: "No need with fiddling on a tiny 3" screen on the back of your camera in full sunny conditions where its hard to read out what you exactly see on the LCD on the back of your camera"...uh, time to join the 21st century where everyone is using these devices called *smartphones* which are used everywhere, indoors and outdoors. Are you suggesting that we all also stop using smartphones because they, too, have screens that are sometimes hard to read in "full sunny conditions"?!? LOL! Sorry, pal, but that argument doesn't fly anymore. People are perfectly fine with using screens out wherever they are.
BS.. When I bought my A7ii I knew exactly what it had and decided it was a good fit to my needs for the money. I didnt buy with a wishlist for the future like hoping it will become a drone with a firmware..no, I read reviews, manual etc and when I was sure it had all I wanted, I bought it. To have options like this add more functionality without having to upgrade is just the icing on the cake for me.
if the screen is hard to read "in full sunny conditions", you can still just tilt it, or better yet you can just use the EVF for even more resolution and no sun problem.
I just downloaded the app to my a7II which had the new free 2.0 firmware with 14 bit uncompressed RAW capability which did require the right browser as Brian instructed and was free. The HDR app was ten bucks but easy to download directly to the camera over WiFi. I have Zeiss prime lenses and look forward to playing with this app for shooting outdoor and on the California coast to save time in post but I'll also see what can be done with the 14 bit uncompressed RAW files in lightroom for some shots. I have all the Sony apps and can load them for free on my DX100m3, etc so they are more like accessories. I skipped the a7rII and think my a7II with 2.0 is the sweet spot but I'm waiting for the next Sony sensor with true one shot HDR. There is never time enough for softwear development so unlike hardwear it must be continuously upgraded. I can't promise time to upload pictures but It will be big fun chick ng out this HDR in camera app.
I just downloaded the app to my a7II which had the new free 2.0 firmware with 14 bit uncompressed RAW capability which did require the right browser as Brian instructed and was free. The HDR app was ten bucks but easy to download directly to the camera over WiFi. I have Zeiss prime lenses and look forward to playing with this app for shooting outdoor and on the California coast to save time in post but I'll also see what can be done with the 14 bit uncompressed RAW files in lightroom for some shots. I have all the Sony apps and can load them for free on my DX100m3, etc so they are more like accessories. I skipped the a7rII and think my a7II with 2.0 is the sweet spot but I'm waiting for the next Sony sensor with true one shot HDR. There is never time enough for softwear development so unlike hardwear it must be continuously upgraded. I can't promise time to upload pictures but It will be big fun checking out this HDR in camera app.
These should be free for those who have bought the flagship models. Seems strange after spending $3200 you need to spend $10 for another app along with the essential time lapse app which is also another $10.
Seems strange that someone who has $3200 to spend on a camera is going to complain about $10. Plus, none of these apps are "essential". And, let's not forget that companies are in it to make money. Why do you think Canon charges $29 for their $110 50mm f/1.8 STM lens (which doesn't come with a hood)? The hood costs 1/3 the price of the lens! Companies do it to make money.
I of course would love it if the app was free but its not. However Sony does have a few free apps like the very useful touchess shutter which is very invaluable if you don't have access to your remote. Who knows Sony might come up with some fire sales and offer a bunch of apps for $10 or something
I will NEVER understand such attitudes but so its human behavior! Really, this is OPTIONAL you DONT Have to pay $9 if you dont want to...which if funny to complain about $9 when we spend so much on cameras and lenses so like someone said, maybe you need to change your hobby.
As I always say...when you bought the camera you knew EXACTLY what it came with since we have this awesome thing called internet so at the time of purchase you paid for what you knew you were getting and you accepted the deal by buying it so now to complain that this extra apps were not included is quite silly. Nobody forced you to buy the camera, you evaluated it and liked what it had at the time then bought it. Simple as that. If you thought it was missing things then why didnt you buy something else?
Good to see at least one camera company understands that we live in the smartphone age where apps are common and handy. One reason why so many people love taking photos on smartphones is because you can open up your favorite photo editing app and do all kinds of things to your photos without having to offload it to some other device first. I think more cameras should also be able to run apps.
TomFid: Android has been tried before, but the interesting note is that apparently Sony camera apps are actually running in an Android environment (it is an easy way to contain them when running Linux). Sony just hasn't made the API open. There is info at https://sony-pmca.appspot.com/
@TomFid - let's not bury the lead, here. The "breakthrough" is that the Sony cameras run apps at all. Do Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, or Fuji cameras run apps? As for this particular app being "underwhelming", that's just your opinion. I don't see any other camera having this capability, in camera, and producing a resulting RAW file.
T3: Actually, Sony is following... Minolta! Way back, the Minolta Creative Expansion Card System provided similar kinds of extra features (although not this particular one) for film cameras starting with the 7000i by using little plug-in memory cards. It's the obvious first instance of camera apps and Sony's model now is really the same... minus the physical card. Let's hope that Sony eventually realizes that having 3rd-party apps is now technically easy and good for everyone -- and opens their API.
I'm not convinced that apps _are_ the breakthrough. I already have devices that run apps and connect to my camera. The breakthrough would be openness supported by a good API, so that third parties could write apps. Then you might get more than a replica of GND filters, which are rather limiting.
I think Sony and Oly get this with their QX10 and Air experiments, but we haven't really seen the potential realized yet.
Well, I use CHDK (and sometimes ML) -- that allows me to put my own compiled native code in (unfortunately, only) Canon cameras. The Android interface is slower and more limited, but more secure.
@TomFid - why do I get the feeling that no matter what happens, you're just going to complain that it's "underwhelming". LOL. Whatever happens, you'll chime in, "It's not enough. It's underwhelming. It's limiting. The potential isn't realized." Knee-jerk, go-to responses for the perpetually displeased. People like you will always complain.
Why not break up Photoshop or Dreamweaver into 80 or 90 different apps. You buy up to what you think you need. This is where this is all heading. On the a la carte menu.
@T3 Why do I get the impression that a bunch of fans really really want a graduated neutral density filter to transform the photo industry? Did I miss the part where someone explained how messing around with an app that constrained density zones to a linear boundary was better than one-click HDR?
Anyway, your speculation just isn't true. If Sony opened up the app platform with a decent API to the camera, I'd be the first to say that it was revolutionary, and I'd be running out to buy an a7 (which I may do anyway).
Great app but.. why no NEX7 on the list and.. If say brie and groom waist up is in washed out sky area, does that mean it will be rendered underexposed with this app ? hmmm...
Cameras just like a PC or a Smartphone It has Processor, RAM, Graphic [card], I/O, monitor, storage, [Wifi, NFCl, GPS module], multiple sensors, etc., but all embedded.
Of course, it has OS/ software as we call it firmware b/c it typically stored in the flash ROM just like smartphone.
Camera Mfc can do what ever they want for its embedded system such as let users to add and run APPs like a smart phone, but it needs decent Processor power first as far as I can see. NEX7 may be not power enough, or no enough ROM... If I were DPR, I'll ask SONY.
From technical evolution point of view it is a logical step: non-portable analog, portable analog, analog with digital interface, digital registration, portable registration and image processing computer .....
nicely done Sony...For 10 bucks totally worth it..but when the camera is 3198 you should consider giving it for free for the new A7rII and A7sII buyers atleast.
@Eleson Way bigger than you think. I'm coughing up 4 whole salaries for my Sony. It's quite an investment for some of us, sir. So these $10 are 1 o 2 days worth of food, you know ;)
I think his point was if you can afford 3200 10 dollar should make it suddenly a bad move by Sony.
For me its about loading that camera with some of these soft touches that will make it special for some buyers. But its anyway special for those buyers.
Anything that makes the job easier is always welcome. Instead of carrying 2-3K worth of ND filters and what not if the app creates the neccessary effect, why not use that.
To each its own I guess, and no problems with that. I myself like and use scene modes alot. It just makes life simpler. I just think that for the normal customer of an A7RII it would be viable and even desirable to do it in any sw on the desktop instead.
How do they stitch the two sets of Bayer data from the two exposures together to a combined raw file? I would expect some artefacts after such a stitched raw is run through another raw converter when viewed at 100%.
I love their Smooth Reflections app which combines many into one raw too. I don't see a problem. Only luminance of the two exposures is combined (by using a weighted average using the mask as weight) and that is easily done prior to demosaicing. As the mask boundary isn't that sharp, I expect no artefacts.
I like that Sony makes these apps RAW aware. Many other manufacturers have a silly attitude to offer processing in JPG mode only.
Maybe I am simply too demanding when I think stitching must be done pixel-perfect. Take a flagpole which might easily cross the stitching boundary, you tilt the camera all so slightly between the two exposures and now you have a bent flagpole. And a slight tilt along the vertical axis and the relative position change between objects in different distances.
In a standard bitmap image, the two stitched images can be moved in one-pixel increments to make them match. Stitching Bayer data requires them to be moved in two-pixel increments. Doesn't this reduce the possible relative positioning accuracy between the two exposures?
"Only luminance of the two exposures is combined... prior to demosaicing"
There is no "luminance layer" in raw data - only [RGGB] pixels. When aligning Bayer frames (without de-Bayering) it is necessary to maintain the 4-pixel matrix position, which degrades potential resolution. Alternately they could de-Bayer -> process in 16 bit -> output a 16 bit color DNG/TIFF or re-Bayer. I doubt if there is sufficient documentation to know what is actually done.
Correct - but who needs an app for this? Olympus does HDR (in or out of camera) that looks just like it, and doesn't require a menu dive.
Plus, Sony's page on the app seems to indicate that it's limited to linear region boundaries, just like a real graduated filter, which makes it pretty lame compared to real HDR.
I do not want Olympus to have in camera Apps - I prefer getting 'features' and 'upgrades' instead. Clever of Sony to just call them 'apps' and then charge $10 for each feature, err, app.
HDR is not the same as this GND app - true, even though Sony calls this HDR. The GND app is much more limited due to the linear zone restriction, and it makes something software can handle pretty well into a manual process. Maybe they could also make a FilmApp that requires you to fumble to insert a virtual leader onto a sprocket?
I was thinking about an A7ii recently, but this certainly wasn't one of the attractions.
You guys know that Sony does have a regular GND filter app as well right ? This is an additional app that people may choose to buy or not. I prefer to bracket anyways when I shoot landscapes.
It's kind of a clever little app. It's going to be great for some mid-level shooters, and then there will be some that will just crap all over it as a concept because they hate anything with the name HDR in it or the mention of GNDs.
It's a bit of a misnomer of an app. I wish they called it Sky Layer Masking. That is closer to what it really is. It's not HDR, or is it a GND replacement. However the term 'Layer Masking' might also confuse some as well. Maybe Sky Blending? Either way, it's still a very valid tool to have, and for the price of a cheap lunch, it's worth checking it out. Layer masking is something that many professional landscapers have been using for a very long time, and I think good for Sony to make it an easy to use app vs the technical requirements of Photoshop.
I shoot with Canon and a Pentax 645z which has a Sony sensor and used to shoot with a D800E and D3x. Obviously then, I know these statements about Canon obsolescence to be complete lunacy.
Mike FL, would you mind proofreading your first response and recomposing as it is completely unreadable. The application appears to have great value but I was gigging those folks, usually rabid Nikon and Sony fanboys intent on disparaging Canon in any way possible, who have poo pooed using GNDs as a way to control DR.
These people that rave about their Sony sensors should be glad there is still competition. If there wasn't then Sony will end up like Canon. Resting their laurels and sitting back doing nothing for the community anymore.
Sony is the leading company in sensor design now, but there is no guarantee they will be so in two to three years from now.
It needs investments from R&D and competition to stay at the top.
I'm with you Rick Knepper. Its a bit absurd. Since I realised that in newer Canon 70D, 700D series, 7D Mark II, 5DRS, 5DS the sensor has improved since the old 7D original. The newer one no longer have horrible banding which is a drastic improvement. The only left improvement they need to do is to reduce the shadow noise in the next sensor generation in Canon. They are catching up. I like Canon colour over Sony for some reason!
We know; why would we expect it to? The original point was that Sony sensors have so much dynamic range that a GND isn't needed. You disagreed, saying GNDs 'don't clip the sky'. Your reply didn't make any sense.
The app itself looks useful, if you have time to set up shots like this but, buying these apps from the childishly named "PlayMemories" store can be a real PITA.
I bought the time-lapse app for my A7RII. It left a ridiculous paper trail on my credit card statement and I got a string of emails from "Sony Playstation Network" about "adding funds to my wallet". In fact, the first I knew about it was when I found my bank had cancelled my credit card because of suspected fraudulent activity. It took a 10 minute phone call to the bank before the operator and I worked out what/who (Sony) caused this weird mess on my transaction history, all over a US$10 app. I am in Australia so there were currency exchange fees involved, to complicate it further.
@Chris, you don't have to put up with this one time inconvenience, just keep strapping a ND filter holder on your lens, dusting off your GND filters, and sliding them up and down in that frame to get it just right. If you don't have a filter holder and the filters yet, just pony up the $300 to B&H and order them. Simple
I've been using the A7R, A7S & A7R II for astrophotography since they were released. The "star-eater" thing may exist BUT I've never encountered it. All GREAT low light cameras for astro-imaging!
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