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Sony Alpha 7 Review

January 2014 | By Jeff Keller, Richard Butler
Buy on GearShop$1,498.00


Review based on a production Sony a7 running firmware v1.0

If there's one thing that you can say about Sony's digital camera business, it's that they've experimented with many different concepts. From SLRs with dual autofocus systems and Translucent Mirror Technology to its NEX mirrorless line-up, Sony has gone down virtually every avenue in digital imaging. Its latest products - the Alpha 7 and Alpha 7R - may be the most exciting products to come out of the Sony labs in some time. The company has managed to create full-frame cameras which are about the same size as the Olympus OM-D E-M1. In other words, the Alpha 7s are much smaller than their full-frame interchangeable lens peers (such as Nikon's D610 and the Canon EOS 6D), an achievement made possible primarily because they're not SLRs.

In addition, Sony is also unifying the Alpha and NEX brands, so all future interchangeable lens cameras will now fall under the Alpha umbrella. Being mirrorless, the a7 would have otherwise likely been prefixed with the letters NEX.

The a7 and a7R are identical in terms of physical design, with the main differences being the sensor and autofocus system. The a7 features a full-frame 24 megapixel CMOS, while the a7R has a 36 megapixel CMOS sensor with no optical low-pass filter. The a7 uses a Hybrid AF system (with on-chip phase detection) similar to the one found on the NEX-6, while the a7R has traditional contrast detection. The a7 is also capable of electronic first curtain mode, which allows for a quieter shutter, and reduces the potential for 'shutter shock' vibration; this is absent from the A7R. Both cameras use Sony's latest Bionz X processor and also have XGA electronic viewfinders, tilting LCDs, Wi-Fi, and weatherproof bodies that resemble that of the Olympus E-M1.

As you'd expect, Sony had to come up with new lenses to take advantage of the full-frame sensors, and they'll be known as 'FE-series'. Five lenses were announced to start with (listed below), with ten more promised by 2015. Existing E-mount lenses will work, though the image will (necessarily) be cropped. If you have A-mount lenses laying around, those too will work, as long as you pick up either of Sony's full-frame-ready adapters (the LA-EA3 or LA-EA4).

Sony a7 key features

  • 24.3 megapixel full-frame CMOS sensor with OLPF
  • E-mount with support for FE, E, and A-mount lenses (with adapter)
  • Bionz X image processor
  • Hybrid AF system with 25 contrast-detect and 117 phase-detect points
  • Sealed alloy and composite body
  • Multi-Interface Shoe
  • 3-inch tilting LCD with 1.23 million dots (640x480, RGBW)
  • XGA (1024x768) electronic viewfinder
  • Diffraction correction technology
  • Full HD video recording at 1080/60p and 24p; uncompressed HDMI output
  • Wi-Fi with NFC capability and downloadable apps

The a7 uses a 24.3 megapixel CMOS sensor with a low-pass filter and on-chip phase detection. This 'Hybrid AF' is supposed to result in speedier AF, supporting the camera's ability to shoot at 5 fps with continuous autofocus. The more expensive a7R, on the other hand, has a 36 megapixel sensor with no optical low-pass filter and a more conventional contrast-detect AF system.

Both the a7 and a7R can record video at 1080/60p and 24p, with manual exposure control, headphone and mic ports, an audio meter, zebra pattern, XLR support (via adapter), and live, uncompressed HDMI output.

Bionz X Processor

The company's latest processor, dubbed Bionz X for reasons that presumably made sense to someone, is considerably more powerful than the previous generation, allowing what the company says is more sophisticated processing.

Sony is being a little vague on specifics but is touting the new processor as offering 'Detail Reproduction Technology' which appears to be a more subtle and sophisticated sharpening system. The company promises less apparent emphasis on edges, giving a more convincing representation of fine detail'.

Another function promised by the Bionz X processor is 'Diffraction Reduction', in which the camera's processing attempts to correct for the softness caused by diffraction as you stop a lens' aperture down. This processing is presumably aperture-dependent and sounds similar to an element of Fujifilm's Lens Modulation Optimization system (introduced on the X100S), suggesting it's something we should expect to see become more common across brands in the coming months.

Finally, Sony says the Bionz X chip offers a more advanced version of its context-sensitive, 'area-specific noise reduction', which attempts to identify whether each area of an image represents smooth tone, textured detail or subject edges and apply different amounts of noise reduction accordingly. Later in the review, we'll show you just how well this system works, and also the problems it can create.

Lenses

While the a7 has an E-mount, you'll need to use Sony's new FE-series lenses to take advantage of its full-frame sensor. Existing E-mount lenses will still physically fit, but as they're only designed for use with APS-C sensors, their image circles won't cover the entire frame properly (just like using Sony's DT lenses on full-frame Alpha mount cameras). While five FE lenses were announced at launch, they were not all available at 'press time', and the 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS will only be sold as a kit lens for the a7. All of the lenses are weather-sealed, but while the zooms include optical stabilization, the primes do not.

Here are the five FE lenses that have been officially announced:

Model MSRP Availability
24-70mm F4 Carl Zeiss OSS $1199/£1049 February 2014
28-70mm F3.5-5.6 Sony OSS Kit only Now
70-200mm F4 Sony G OSS TBD TBD
35mm F2.8 Carl Zeiss $799/£699 Now
55mm F1.8 Carl Zeiss $999/£849 Now

Sony plans to have a total of fifteen FE lenses by 2015, including macro and ultra-wide models.

The first five Sony FE lenses include two standard zooms, two primes, and a tele zoom

We're slightly surprised by Sony's strategy here: it seems a bit odd to be making two different standard zooms to start with, rather than adding a wide-angle zoom. And while it's great to see a couple of primes, both look somewhat slow given their prices. The 55mm F1.8 is a bit long for a 'normal' lens too. We'd have loved to see a fast 'portrait' lens in the 85-135mm range early on, but hopefully Sony will offer one soon.

The two cameras are perfectly capable of using existing E-mount and A-mount lenses, and you have the choice as to whether the image is cropped. If you choose to crop, the resolution will drop to 10 megapixels on the a7, and the equivalent focal length will increase by 1.5X. Sony also gives you the option to not crop and use the entire sensor, though this is likely to lead to strong vignetting.

Image 1
24mm full-frame lens - APS-C Crop Off
Image 2
24mm APS-C lens - APS-C Crop Off
Image 3
24mm APS-C lens - APS-C Crop On

The camera offers three options for its APS-C crop mode - Off, Auto and On. With it switched Off, you'll see Image 1 with a full-frame lens and Image 2 if you're using an APS-C lens. With it switched to Auto mode, you'll get Image 1 or Image 3, depending on whether you're using a full-frame or an APS-C lens. And finally, with it On, you'll see Image 3, regardless of which lens type you put on the camera.

The a7R with LA-E4 A-mount adapter and 50mm F1.4 Zeiss lens

Sony's A-Mount lenses will require the use of an A- to E-mount adapter. Somewhat confusingly Sony now offers no fewer than four such adapters, which differ in their autofocus capabilities and format coverage. The LA-E1 and LA-EA3 offer contrast detect autofocus for lenses that have built-in focus motors (i.e. SAM and SSM), but only manual focus with other lenses, while the LA-EA2 and the new LA-EA4 use Sony's Translucent Mirror Technology to offer autofocus with all lenses. The LA-EA1 and LA-EA2, however, were designed for APS-C NEX cameras and will vignette strongly when used on the a7(R); the LA-EA3 and LA-EA4 are needed to give complete sensor coverage with full-frame lenses.

Adapter Full autofocus? Full-frame ready?
LA-EA1
No
No
LA-EA2
Yes
No
LA-EA3
No
Yes
LA-EA4
Yes
Yes

It's well worth noting that the a7 and a7R are able to accept a huge range of other lenses via readily-available third-party adapters, including old manual focus lenses from long-dead systems such as Minolta MD, Olympus OM, and Canon FD, as well as those from current systems such as Nikon F, Pentax K and Leica M. What's more, in principle these lenses should offer the angle of view they were originally designed to give - so a 24mm will be a true wide-angle again, for example. So if you have a cherished collection of old manual focus primes sitting a closet, the a7 may be just the camera to bring them back to life. More on that later in the review.

Kit options and pricing

The 24 megapixel Alpha 7 sells for $1699/£1299 body only and $1999/£1549 with the 28-70 F3.5-5.6 OSS lens. For those who are curious, the 36 megapixel a7R is priced at $2299/£1699 body only.

The most notable accessory for both cameras is an optional battery grip (VG-C1EM) - a first for an E-mount camera. This grip adds controls for vertical shooting and holds an additional battery, and will set you back around $300/£259.

The a7 does NOT come with an external battery charger, instead relying on internal charging over USB. USB charging is quite slow (and it makes having a spare battery on hand more difficult), so picking up the BC-VW1 or BC-TRW external chargers is probably a smart move.

Other accessories include camera cases, an off-shoe flash adapter, wired and wireless remotes, and screen protectors.



If you're new to digital photography you may wish to read the Digital Photography Glossary before diving into this article (it may help you understand some of the terms used).

Conclusion / Recommendation / Ratings are based on the opinion of the reviewer, you should read the ENTIRE review before coming to your own conclusions.

Images which can be viewed at a larger size have a small magnifying glass icon in the bottom right corner of the image, clicking on the image will display a larger (typically VGA) image in a new window.

To navigate the review simply use the next / previous page buttons, to jump to a particular section either pick the section from the drop down or select it from the navigation bar at the top.

DPReview calibrate their monitors using Color Vision OptiCal at the (fairly well accepted) PC normal gamma 2.2, this means that on our monitors we can make out the difference between all of the (computer generated) grayscale blocks below. We recommend to make the most of this review you should be able to see the difference (at least) between X,Y and Z and ideally A,B and C.

This article is Copyright 2014 and may NOT in part or in whole be reproduced in any electronic or printed medium without prior permission from the author.

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Comments

Total comments: 1606
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Sannaborjeson
By Sannaborjeson (7 months ago)

Dpreview forgot to mention it's shutter sound.
I own a7r and the shutter sound is just horrible. Can't believe Sony engineers managed to make it that loud without using gunpowder.

0 upvotes
Viramati
By Viramati (7 months ago)

The A7 has a different shutter and is a lot quieter as it has an electronic first shutter

2 upvotes
dynaxx
By dynaxx (7 months ago)

nothing whatever to do with poor design @Sonnaborjeson - a bigger sensor requires a bigger shutter - more noise is inevitable when it flips. A year ago I switched from medium format ( 6 X 4.5 ) to Full Frame ( 3.6 X 2.4 ) a reduction of around 68% in area and the shutter noise reduced proportionally.

2 upvotes
Rob Sims
By Rob Sims (7 months ago)

@dynaxx

...Sony's own RX1 has a FF sensor and shutter is practically silent.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
blue_skies
By blue_skies (7 months ago)

The Sony RX1 has a fixed lens and uses a leaf shutter design - actually a shutter that is built into the lens.

The ILC cameras use a focal-plane shutter, and the noise level is proportional to the mass that has to move. The bigger the sensor, the louder the noise. It is mechanical.

Making it quieter means making it slower - how about 1/1,000th, rather than 1/8,000th?

The EFC means that the first curtain does not get activated - only the second curtain has to move and this reduces the sound to half (one, rather than two, shutter movements).

Other than a shutter, there is no instantaneous way yet to stop the exposure and begin the readout of the pixels.

Perhaps an inverse sound can be created to mitigate the sound of the shutter? Or advanced dampening techniques may be discovered at some point?

Bigger body cameras have the same internal sound, but baffling and the sensor sitting deeper lower the sound perception.

Personally, I don't find the sound THAT loud, just louder ... :)

8 upvotes
PaulDavis
By PaulDavis (7 months ago)

Yeah I am perfectly happy with the sound the a7 makes. I have already used it at our daughters Christmas plays and other events where where the moment was quiet and it was fine. This is an personal opinion but I find the shutter sound on the a7 to have a sound of quality. This may not be the case but it feels that way when using it.

2 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

Sana, don't mind the shutter noise, just read my post above you and you'll forget about the shutter noise!

0 upvotes
luis caramujo
By luis caramujo (7 months ago)

For those who never heard the sound, and might be thinking people will hit the ground when ear it. don´t worry
All i can say is that ´s the sound of a quality tool, exposing one of the best sensors smaller than medium format.

0 upvotes
ipecaca
By ipecaca (7 months ago)

Remember the much, much quieter 5D mk I? And mind you it has also a flipping mirror...

0 upvotes
tennjed
By tennjed (7 months ago)

I have had the A7 for about two weeks. I guess ignorance is bliss as I have not been bothered with any of the problems mentioned. The thing takes great photos and is fun to use.

The shutter is a bit loud; the fact that the A7r is louder yet, keeps me from considering moving up to that model. Is the electronic front shutter something that can be addressed through firmware?

6 upvotes
digimaan1
By digimaan1 (7 months ago)

Same old problem with Sony, they can't seem to get the idea into their heads that whatever size the sensor is too many pixels = too much noise.
12mp is more than enough. No need then for aggressive noise reduction and jpeg artefacts.
My "old" Olympus EPL-1 doesn't suffer from this as much, it takes the sharpest pictures I've taken with anything lately, and no way could I ever afford the prices of these cameras that are supposed to be so much better.
Phil

2 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

Aw bless

7 upvotes
dynaxx
By dynaxx (7 months ago)

@digimaan1and many other posters here make the false assumption we all want the same things from a camera. Lovers of detailed photo's that can be printed on a big scale want high pixel counts regardless of noise, lovers of subtle and realistic colours go for the Sigma Merrill or Fuji S5 Pro, street shooters value portability plus anonymity and noise haters go for medium format etc.etc. Some people even want their camera to be a public statement of what they think is good design and who can say they are misguided ?

4 upvotes
Dan_168
By Dan_168 (7 months ago)

Yeah, for some 12MP may be even "too much" and for some 36MP is not enough, being a landscape shooter and current D800E owner and many many Canon DSLR owner including 1DS2 and 1DS3 currently, I for one will definitely not care for anything that offers less resolution and DR at base ISO than what I already have. I don't shoot any high ISO so I personally careless if my landscape camera even have ISO 800 or 1600 setting at all. and when I actually need the high ISO capabilities, there is a D4 and 1Dx out there.

1 upvote
Marksphoto
By Marksphoto (7 months ago)

you can't move any smaller than a $400 Rebel anymore, still the lens factor overwhelms any small design rendering the idea pointless.

I would rather see improvements in image quality personally. Or perhaps the biggest one of all is manual control knobs.

We need wheels to be able to access things on the fly such as: apperture settings, ISO settings, shutter settings, white balance settings. Nikon and even Canon has done a rediculous job with their complicated menu settings.

I remember when photography was fun.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
ipecaca
By ipecaca (7 months ago)

Take a look at fuji x series, they see it that way. Sony just takes a different approach.

0 upvotes
Noham
By Noham (7 months ago)

For me and it is personal - the main idea is to move to smaller gear (from normal DSLR so comparing with D800 is irrelevant). Then there are quite a few choices and these are the ones i am to choose among. If you compare with the om-1 - just go on the image test page (in jpeg or raw - you can try both) and compare the picture - you will see in high ISO that the difference is striking - (even for JPEG !) - this is the real benefit of a larger sensor. Now clearly the lenses will be bigger (i do care as much about the size as for the weight). Last one - open question, will there be a kit A7 + 24 -70 F4 as look like a great combination?

1 upvote
hip2
By hip2 (7 months ago)

you might want to check out the size and weight of the two primes.
though the zooms are really huge :)

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (7 months ago)

I think DPR is right not to give the highest score on A7. There are quirks and issues to be addressed. I personally have complained about some of these. This does not detract from the fact that A7/R are groundbreaking products (save the repulsive logo at the front of the camera).

1 upvote
bibogue
By bibogue (7 months ago)

I'm very impress with A7's sharpness on studio shoot.
I guess dpreview avoid to present A7 biggest capability and choose to mark out it's weakness.
That's why many sony lovers yell..

11 upvotes
SDF
By SDF (7 months ago)

Are we still going to get an A7R review or this is it?

2 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

"If you're waiting for a review of the a7R, it's on the way - but in the meantime, this review is equally relevant to many of the features of that camera. You can also see how its image quality compares to the a7 and other cameras here. Our full review of the a7R will be posted soon." I don't get it, many relevant features but why is it taking forever to publish it?

3 upvotes
Simon Joinson
By Simon Joinson (7 months ago)

i don't think 'forever' means what you think it does

3 upvotes
Niklas Ramstedt
By Niklas Ramstedt (7 months ago)

When it comes to the Nikon D4 review it means exactly what we think it means. ;)

7 upvotes
Simon Joinson
By Simon Joinson (7 months ago)

touche... though i don't remember ever promising to post a D4 review at any time, soon or not.

0 upvotes
Niklas Ramstedt
By Niklas Ramstedt (7 months ago)

Just seems odd that every other pro Nikon body has a review on this site but the D4.

2 upvotes
hip2
By hip2 (7 months ago)

I think the Df review is as close as a D4 review we will ever get from DPR. :D

0 upvotes
Shape
By Shape (7 months ago)

Background: I use Nikon D4, Nikon D800 + several pro lenses for my usual shooting.

Got my A7R couple of days ago, and I cannot be more excited. The A7R is what I've been waiting for during the last years... Finally top quality IQ on a extremely compact and non intrusive package.

I really like your reviews, as they are really detailed and I can really get an idea about how a camera body would behave... But giving to one of the most revolutionary cameras of last years just a Silver Award? Well doesn't seem quite fair...

I don't remember feeling this excited since Nikon released D3... So, I hope it's because you are keeping the gold award for the A7R :)

16 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

Not quite the Df killer that everyone was expecting it to be, now is it?

1 upvote
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

Ah, are you forgetting DF did not get an award at all?

4 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (7 months ago)

Who's this everyone you speak of?

Seem to be completely different types of cameras to me, operating in completely different price regions too (the DF costs 62% more to begin with).

7 upvotes
Shape
By Shape (7 months ago)

Df it's just about how it looks... A7R it's revolutionary!

(But obviusly an A7 with D4's sensor and frame rate would be ever better)

5 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

@Heaveb is for real: An award? What does an arbitrary from a website mean? Nada.

@TrojMacReady: I know they're different types of cameras at different price points, but go back to the announcements and look in the forums and you will see just about everyone comparing them and declaring the A7 better because it's "smaller and cheaper".

@Shape: Just about how it looks? That's foolish. What about the amazing IQ at ALL ISO settings? Isn't the final result what matters in the end?
Can you tell what a camera looks like when you see the final image? Nope.
Revolutionary? How so? They jammed a full frame sensor into a tiny body that takes huge lenses that are expensive and there exists only THREE lenses. Two fast primes and a slow kit lens. Third party lenses are terrible on the Sony because they don't have a microlens array that can deal with the lenses. The battery is charged by USB for crying out loud! Yeah, it's revolutionary alright. Revolutionarily in the bad design department.

3 upvotes
Rocky Mtn Old Boy
By Rocky Mtn Old Boy (7 months ago)

Granted, the Df is beautiful... I mean it truly rocks the retro thing. That said, if I wanted that, I suppose I'd still be shooting my FM.
I have the A7 and a kit lens... which is average at best and appropriately priced at $300. But I also have Sigma 85mm 1.4 on a metabones and it will *easily* match any Nikkor 85 on any body I have seen. I am not sure where you've ascertained "Third party lenses are terrible on the Sony because they don't have a microlens array that can deal with the lenses" comment, but from the results I've seen, it's simply not true. Maybe I got lucky... maybe you're privy to information not available to rest of us... whatever the cause, you seem... upset.

8 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

Have you seen what the Sony does to Leica lenses? Takes the best lenses in the world and turns them to mush in the corners. Same with just about any M mount lens shorter than 50mm.

And why would you put a giant SLR lenses on a camera that's meant to be small? I bet that handles real great. The Sigma 85 is unwieldily on the D600 and you buy a compact camera to put oversize lenses on it? Seems counterintuitive to me.

I'm not upset, I'm just laughing at the ridiculousness of this camera system. I bet with you 85mm mounted to it, it looks like a Chihuahua humping a Great Dane. And probably as elegant.

1 upvote
BaroneRosso
By BaroneRosso (7 months ago)

There are problems with SOME wide angle Leica lenses, others, and many compatible, are very good (WATE for instance, many CVs too). Results with any rf lens longer than 50 mm are terrific.
Nikon DF is not devoid of ridiculous design bugs: just an example, you can use old manual Nikon lenses, but you can't change focusing screen. Judgement about the look is completely subjective (I don't like it all).

Comment edited 20 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Everlast66
By Everlast66 (7 months ago)

@JDThomas
For someone who owned EVERY camera that Nikon released for the last 10+ years you are as impartial in comparing A7 vs Df as you can be...
With regard to the Leica lenses on the A7 have you actualy tried them on an A7/r or just bitching. From what I read from many A7/r reviews is all lenses longer than 30mm are absolutely fine. Some wider designs also do well but older wide lenses designed for film have problems. The A7 does not have the microlenses the A7r has, but the reason is that the pixel size of the A7r is much smaller and requires them, not that Sony decided to cut corners on the cheaper A7 model.

2 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

@JDThomas, we can tell you DON'T KNOW what you are talking about. You haven't tried A7/r at all! Just because you read something on the web you think you know everything about these ground breaking cameras. I bet you are having a buyer's remorse buying the "No Award" Nikon DF now.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

@BaroneRosso: The focusing screen CAN be changed. Screens are available from focusingscreen.com

@Everlast66: Where did I draw a comparison between the two? I was commenting on what many others proclaimed the A7 to be. Yes I've tried Leica lenses on the A7. I happened to have my Leica kit at the camera shop when the A7 came in. I've used it a few times with the kit lens.

@Heaven is for real: See above ^. I have used the A7 a number of times. Just because YOU get your information from the web doesn't mean everyone does. And your constant referencing the DPReview "Reward" system tells me that you are foolish and believe whatever the internet tells you.
As far as "buyers remorse", that's just laughable. I don't get buyer's remorse. I write the camera's off as a business expense. I get PAID to play with cameras. So how I could I have remorse about buying a camera which has done nothing but give me great images and make me money? I give the camera a "Green Award" for filling my wallet.

0 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

and yet you are on this thread very active trying to make fun of A7. You get "paid" to play with cameras so it is quite laughable to be defending and bragging your DF on the A7 review. You even created a website about DF - now that is laughable and that is what I called a "fanboy"!

2 upvotes
BaroneRosso
By BaroneRosso (7 months ago)

@JDThomas: Correct, I should have specified that original focusing screens aren't available, and obviously third parties jumped to fill the gap.

Comment edited 11 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Everlast66
By Everlast66 (7 months ago)

JDThomas quote "Where did I draw a comparison between the two? I was commenting on what many others proclaimed the A7 to be. Yes I've tried Leica lenses on the A7. I happened to have my Leica kit at the camera shop when the A7 came in. I've used it a few times with the kit lens. "
Quote from your first post "Not quite the Df killer that everyone was expecting it to be, now is it?" Isn't this a comparison between the A7 and the Df?
In addition the A7/r was not expected to be a Df killer as it was both announced and released BEFORE the Nikon Df! More likely Nikon announced the Df earlier than planned worried by the Sony announcement.
With regard to A7 and wide Leica glass could you provide proof for incompatability of lenses between 35mm and 50mm?

3 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

@Everlast66: Why don't you go back and look at the forums where everyone is comparing the A7 and saying how awesome it was going to be and how it was going to blow away the Df.

That's NOT drawing a comparison to the respective cameras. THAT is a response to all of the inane comments that were made about which camera was going to be more successful than the other.

Is English your first language? Because your reading comprehension skills are somewhat lacking.

Provide proof? Look it up on the internet. What am I your errand boy?

0 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

It is an awesome camera as you can see from thousands of owners and comments on this thread. All the reviews that were published out there rated A7/r "exceptional images", 'best images", "excellent images" etc., even won 2013 Camera of the year from multiple sources.

2 upvotes
Everlast66
By Everlast66 (7 months ago)

English is my third out of four languages that I (am trying to) use.
And yes your first post "Not quite the Df killer that everyone was expecting it to be, now is it?" has an implicit comparison in it. How did you decide A7 is not a Df killer if you are not comparing them?!?
The reason why I asked you to provide proof that Leica glass between 35mm and 50mm results in mushy corners is because every review I read on the internet said exactly the opposite - 35mm lenses (including) and longer have no issues. For example Steve Huff's review:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/11/29/the-sony-a7-and-a7r-camera-review-by-steve-huff/

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

For JD's consumption:
From the link above...
"Most Leica M mount lenses are full frame lenses and they are gorgeous in size, build and feel. The good news is that 85-90% of them work amazingly well on the A7 and A7r. I found some of the best performing lenses on the A7 and A7r came from Zeiss with the Zeiss ZM line. Lenses like the 50 Zm f/2 Planar and the 50 Sonnar 1.5 are wonderful. They also come in at a much lower cost than the Leica counterparts. Also, one of the most magical lenses I have tried on these cameras has been the 75 Summilux. Gorgeous."
DF killer indeed!

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

@Heavan is for real: My website is NikonDFG.com DFG for Digital Field Guide. I started the site about 7 years ago. That was long before there was a Df. Really, you should pay closer attention before you start trying call people out. My site is a compendium to the books I write.

Check out how Huff heaps praise all over the Df.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/12/20/the-nikon-df-camera-review-by-steve-huff/

@Everlast66: Quoting Steve Huff as a reliable source of information? That dude is the successor to the Rockwell throne. He's passionate about his cameras and it shows in his reviews. I'm sure he's a nice fella, but his reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.

I did stumble upon a very well thought out unbiased review here:
http://aboutphotography-tomgrill.blogspot.com/2014/01/sony-a7r-with-leica-m-lenses-hands-on.html
It's got a nice comparison that shows the awful color shifts as well.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

JD, if you believe Steve Huff then this review of A7/r should change your opinion of the cameras

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/11/29/the-sony-a7-and-a7r-camera-review-by-steve-huff/

And Steve's replaced his Leica M with Sony A7r...

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/12/12/why-i-quit-the-leica-m-for-the-sony-a7r-by-didier-godme/

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

@Heaven: I wrote above that Steve's reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. He falls in love with every new camera on the market and then he replaces whatever his favorite camera of the week was before that.

Oftentimes he'll replace a camera, rave about the new camera, then after awhile he'll go back and buy the old camera again. He's all over the place.

In any case if you look closely at the title of the article it wasn't written by Steve. It was written by some guy named Didier Godme. So on this occasion Steve has NOT given up his M for an A7.

Steve doesn't write all of the articles on his website anymore. Read the titles carefully because a high percentage of the "reviews" on his site are opinion pieces by Steve's fans.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

For what it's worth, and to clear the air, I don't particularly think the A7/r is an the worst camera in the world. My comment was simply aimed at the people who commented early on about how this camera was going to be much better than the Df.

Both cameras are capable user. Each has some bad points about them. In my personal opinion the Sony has many more quirks than the Df. The Df is no dream camera, but for me it's more usable than the A7.

0 upvotes
Everlast66
By Everlast66 (7 months ago)

@JDThomas
Man, you need to take some rest, you are starting to see things...
The link that I posted is for a three part review by Steve writing about his 5 day tour with the A7, the A7r and as many lenses as he could carry and he was reporting first person for his experience with the two cameras. I don't know where did you see that other name, probably the link above for prev/next article.
Perhaps you dislike the A7/r so much because it threatens your fav Leica. The Df on the other hand is hugely overpriced and I would by a D800/e instead any day.
By the way did you try using your Leica glass on your Df - probably not.

2 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (6 months ago)

@Everlast66: Like I said, I don't care about Steve's reviews. He's a hack. Sorry, but it's true.

I don't "dislike" the A7/r, it's a camera, I don't have feelings about it. Just observations. And how exactly is the A7 "threatening" my Leica? My Leica isn't going stop working. Leica isn't going to go out of business. I'll be using my Leicas just like always and I'll continue to buy them since I have a huge Leica lens collection. I'll never buy a Sony. Don't want or need it.

I already owned a D800E. It was nothing special. I sold it less than a month after i got it. I had no need for a slow camera with huge files and marginal high ISO performance.

Didn't need to try my Leica glass on my Df. I have three M-mount cameras and a full set of pro Nikon glass. Unlike the A7, my camera systems already have a line of lenses for just about anything you need.

What are you arguing over my own personal observations? Did I hurt your feelings? Is the A7 your baby or something?

0 upvotes
munro harrap
By munro harrap (7 months ago)

An interesting review, but one that is unfortunately predictable in the sense that with Sony, this tends to be all you get. The extremely slow prefocussed shutter lag has been left out, but the analysis of the jpeg situation speaks volumes. Sony as others also need to write files as fast as they shoot them: nobody now should be waiting these times for the buffer to clear. My gut reaction based on 7100 use is its horrid not to be able to reverse that huge screen, facing into and flush with the body when not in use. It will get scratched to bits quickly. This is not made for us, its made to be quickly replaced. The cost of the lenses too are a joke in bad taste, and the f5.6 standard zoom is good, -it is a good lens, but it is too slow, and despite this too big. The lenses destroy the bodies size advantage (they could be Leica M size primes), and the body itself isn't exactly comfortable to hold and to use, and with water dripping everywhere in the rain?? Nah, I'll pass on this one

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
guyfawkes
By guyfawkes (7 months ago)

Regrettably, it isn't possible for a modern AF/IS/Auto diaphragm lens to equal a Leica M prime in size, however much I'd wish for smaller lenses.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (7 months ago)

"Camera 'locks up' while buffer is clearing after continuous shooting"

Really? This is SO lame in 2013, even for a $170 camera, let alone $1,700 one.

Comment edited 24 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Shape
By Shape (7 months ago)

Well, I can tell you A7R with Sandisk fast card doesn't look up at all... So maybe using a quality SD would really make sense...

10 upvotes
anagram4wander2
By anagram4wander2 (7 months ago)

@Shape - That's my experience with the A7r as well... the only time I have got such as message is when playing with the HDR function.

0 upvotes
Stephen Hennessey
By Stephen Hennessey (7 months ago)

"Locks up" is an overstatement, but the a7 does lock you out of changing some settings while the buffer clears, which is a change from the NEX-6 that I also have. For instance, you can't change the shutter speed/ISO/aperture or the drive mode, but you can shoot more.

This is probably my biggest complaint about the a7, and I am hoping that a firmware update will fix this.

Comment edited 12 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
DH2000
By DH2000 (7 months ago)

One prediction: In the upcoming A7r review, A7r would get a score of 80+/- 2, and a silver award.

The DPReview is very predictable when it comes to Sony products lately: R100, R100II, and now A7. Are of them are game changing cameras that the reviewers could not bond.

Suggest to change the word "Award" to "Degree that I can bond with the camera." A high, medium, and low will do.

4 upvotes
luis caramujo
By luis caramujo (7 months ago)

Based on their studio comparison scene, i would expect some gold

6 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (7 months ago)

Dpreview should publish the reviewer's name.

1 upvote
Simon Joinson
By Simon Joinson (7 months ago)

up at the top, where it says 'by' ?

5 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (7 months ago)

OK, I could see them now. (edited)

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (7 months ago)

@plasnu, they were always there. You can also click on the names to see the articles/reviews posted by the DPR team member.

0 upvotes
dynaxx
By dynaxx (7 months ago)

could be a bug because when I look above these comments I see "By dpreview staff on Jan 22, 2014 at 20:40:00 GMT" ( the URL is "http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/22/sony-alpha-7-review-full-frame-mirrorless-is-here?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0_21"

... in my other browser window I see "January 2014 | By Jeff Keller, Shawn Barnett, R Butler" at URL "http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7". Both sessions about 15 minutes old.

I assumed you had given in to the clamour of death threats and made it anonymous.

0 upvotes
SOFTWARETESTER
By SOFTWARETESTER (7 months ago)

I can't find a Rawconversion -standard function.
So this camera should be used with computers to get best results.

Sounds good looks a bit like a nexbody.

0 upvotes
ianimal
By ianimal (7 months ago)

Sony could look at the JPG engine used in Sony NEX-5N, one of the best
I have seen. Why change a winning team?
For the NEX-5N dpreview.com had this as first positive point:
- Very good JPEG output quality

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

I have both A7 and 5N. A7 trounces the 5N at low NR setting (5N's is still way too strong, leaves artifacts from ISO 3200), AWB is much more accurate (5N's is always quite warm, 'incandescent' is not strong enough for example).

10 upvotes
UnitedNations
By UnitedNations (7 months ago)

A7 = Unacceptable jpeg & other issues that you just cannot overlook at this price point.

People are not going to buy this A7(r) as a backup camera. So these shortcomings revealed in this review are unacceptable.

Waiting to see what dpreview thinks about the A7R's shutter vibration issue & some other problems already spreading across the internet photography forums.

Sony's first attempt with compact mirrorless FF is commendable... but it is turning out to be a messy first attempt.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

From your comment history: "There goes my plans of getting any of the future Fuji X APS-C sensor Xtrans cameras. The Sony A7r & A7 here totally blows away even the RX1r & Fuji X-Pro1 on JPEG image processing & dynamic range(not only resolution)... This just shows how expensive the Fujis really are. Now that the A7 is out, Fuji will not be able to price their X-Pro1 or X-E2 & their future X lineup as high as they are doing now. Competition sure is a good thing for the consumers." Troll much?

10 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (7 months ago)

Just curious... does this example put even more cameras on your "do-not-buy" list?
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/5639653565/photos/2819517/
Let's even push it a bit, which cameras handles that specific crop better in jpeg at that iso?

I'm sure that most can find crops that prove something completely different, no problems with that. But crappy is a strong word.

2 upvotes
UnitedNations
By UnitedNations (7 months ago)

@quezra
I am sorry the 'recent' reviews including this one has disappointed you very much & that you are HURT by my unfavourable 'recent' comment about the A7.
Unfortunately, many 'recent' body of reviews reveals problems that were not mentioned in the small body of 'early' reviews.
'Early' reviews reported of superior & improved JPEG engine so it was natural for me to write the comment which you have quoted.

Seeing that you have to stalk me(looking into all of my past comments) & make an exaggerated issue with an 'OLD' & now 'irrelevant' comment that was made in a different sea of information seems that you are the ugly troll here & is very HURT by all the bad reports coming up about the A7. Cheer up my boy!

And grow up.

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Max Savin
By Max Savin (7 months ago)

Works perfectly for me, only the slow startup is a bother. Added an A7r today (from FM buy/sell). The shutter is almost as loud as my 1DsMK3. But for landscape work who cares?

0 upvotes
Shape
By Shape (7 months ago)

Don't worry man... we will travel happy and light with our A7 cameras while you stick to whatever heavy camera you use ... because wait... if you want the same IQ you should carry a D800... and the last time I checked my D800 + 24-70 2.8 were almost 2Kg! ;)

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting
1 upvote
showmeyourpics
By showmeyourpics (7 months ago)

After having read the review and the readers' comments (thank you all), it looks to me that this situation is similar to most introductions of revolutionary gear. I believe that every one here is at least partially right. The A7 is a 1st generation, ground-breaking camera and Sony should be recognized for it. It shows that MILC's are maturing quickly and approaching state-of-the-art performance all the way to FF format. On the other hand, as a 1st generation, the camera tends to be somewhat unbalanced offering cutting-edge features next to others that are not (yet). DPR conclusions mirror this reality. I would be very surprised if Sony did not take care of these shortcomings in the upcoming reiterations, and beef up the choice of (pro grade) lenses. With the often tough outdoor photography I do, this is the first camera model that would make FF approachable to me.

2 upvotes
Craig from Nevada
By Craig from Nevada (7 months ago)

Critical recognition is one thing, opening your wallet and dropping cash is another matter altogether.

1 upvote
HFLM
By HFLM (7 months ago)

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept, was tempted to buy one, but I still cannot see why it's so groundbreaking. It's not the first DSLR, not the first mirror less, not the first FF mirrorless (Leica M9, M240). For me it's an evolution, like the first mirror less m43, first mirror less APS-C ...
It works great with small primes, but fast zoom lenses will inevitable be big and expensive. And although the body is cheap, the lenses and accessories are not (however very good quality). The A7r is a better package especially for landscape photography, with incredible image quality, resolution and speed being no issue. But what about the future. Today Moody's rated Sony's credit rating junk, jobs are at stake. Would like to hear your opinion.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Aramiss
By Aramiss (7 months ago)

http://www.colorfoto.de/bestenliste/?catId=50102
interesting :)

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

"Functionality and features
+ highest image quality
+ high-quality compact housing
+ very good EVF
- no built-in flash
- slow autofocus in low light" Aside from thousands of owners disagree with Dp's review, another review got it right!

1 upvote
HFLM
By HFLM (7 months ago)

That means every one agreeing got it right, everyone else doesn't know what he is talking about? Colorfoto tests are very brief and DPreview didn't say the image quality is bad, to the contrary, it's great, especially raw. If JPG is not important, ignore it.

2 upvotes
Shape
By Shape (7 months ago)

Well, I would just add a "Non min shutter speed for auto-iso" ... Also my tests suggest that if you find proper edges and microcontrast to focus, it focuses quite well in low light.

0 upvotes
hip2
By hip2 (7 months ago)

@Shape,
if you want "min shutter speed for auto iso", just use S mode, or M mode if you want to control aperture too. :)
so the feature is there, it's just that no one sees it or knows how to use it correctly :p.

1 upvote
Viramati
By Viramati (7 months ago)

The A7 along with the FE55 and 35 lenses is an awesome package for it's money and size. You really need to take some time to set the camera up and even after a couple of months I am still tweaking the settings and I can understand that a reviewer won't spend the time doing this. Yes the jpegs are not good at high iso but I only shoot RAW and am very happy with the high iso output. autofocus on the 55 can be a little sluggish in low light but that is really the only downside I can think of. I do miss not being able to see aperture and shutter speeds in an analogue way as I can on my leica M and fuji Xpro-1 but I can live with that (leica is mainly used for street work precisely for this reason). battery life is not good but hey it is a small camera and I just have to carry a couple of spares so no real problem. I do believe that most of the issues I have with the camera could be sorted with firmware updates
Anyway the A7 is a definite keeper for me and is now part of my working setup

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Average User
By Average User (7 months ago)

I am one who has owned and loved my Sony Alpha Nex 7 for close to two years now; also own the Nikon D7000 and D-600. All of these purchase decisions were heavily influenced by DP Review.
I appreciate the viewpoint of DP review on this camera and will appreciate the review of the new A7r as well. I do think the other lower end full frames are the comparable market. What I don't like about the D600 is how big it is...for me, for most trips it's still the Nex7. So I do want to know how these two new cameras compare to the Nikon and Canon.
But it seems to me beyond some of the smaller items is availability of quality lenses. Frankly, having to buy a whole new bunch of full frame lenses to get this camera up to speed but not ahead of my D 600 is not very appealing. A fully functional adapter would help, but this is too big of an investment to make on the promise of future lenses.

3 upvotes
luigibozi
By luigibozi (7 months ago)

DPR, which camera had ~40% clicks before Sony A7? Just curious.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
9 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

Suddenly, the ads all over this website are showing "
2013 Camera of The Year" - A7r - so I guess the DP ads are driven by the "Most Popular Camera" section!

1 upvote
Thorgrem
By Thorgrem (7 months ago)

On DPR the A7(r) isn't camera of the year. Even in its own category it did not win. But it's funny to see all these Sony users complain about this review in te comments.

2 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

I would just like to thank all the usual Sony bashers for helping to generate 1.3k comments in under a week and taking the viewing stats of the A7 through the roof. Generating buzz for Sony must surely be exactly what you guys want!
Edit: now 41.1% at time of this post :D

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
10 upvotes
Simon Joinson
By Simon Joinson (7 months ago)

I've not counted but I've read em all and would say the A7 defenders are in the vast majority in these comments. Not much sony bashing here. .

5 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

I'm not saying if there were more or less, I'm saying if we didn't have dedicated dissenters to argue with the (predictable) response of the Sony crowd, we wouldn't have kept coming back to the review!

4 upvotes
Lucas_
By Lucas_ (7 months ago)

"Sony A7/7R - camera of the year" - That's stated by most ( if not the majority ) of web reviewers and photo magazines. Anyway, looks like DPR is right, all others are wrong...!

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
Simon Joinson
By Simon Joinson (7 months ago)

we don't declare a camera of the year unless we've fully tested it. Not wanting to slight PopPhoto, but it is my understanding that they declared the A7r the camera of the year when they'd had it for a few days, and had not performed a full review. We will consider it for 2014. I find it hard to believe that you have any evidence to back up your suggestion that the majority of the hundreds of magazine and thousands of web reviewers declared the A7/A7R 'camera of the year' (not least because that's two cameras).

1 upvote
bluevellet
By bluevellet (6 months ago)

Short-lived, quezra. Not enough Sony defenders to keep the noise level up. Dropping like a brick now. X-T1 stealing limelight.

Back to obscurity. Back to reality.

0 upvotes
Wachanga
By Wachanga (7 months ago)

The first picture displayed in the review (showing the aps-c cropping features) is unbalanced to the right, not leveled.

0 upvotes
Thoughts
By Thoughts (7 months ago)

A review of a camera serves to provide an important guide to potential buyers whether to consider to make the purchase.

Obviously the reviewer's user experience will determine the final verdict.

It appears to me though, this time the reviewers only tested the camera, not used it as a photographer.

In my view, you might get a quite balanced review by asking the forum users (those brave early adopters) before Dpreview publishes a review, if ever.

13 upvotes
Lucas_
By Lucas_ (7 months ago)

The reviewer inexperience with manual focus is evident, therefore IMHO his comments on that matter are in the least to be taken with a ton of salt. As for the jpg files, that's a quite subjective thing and also require more time with the camera to learn its best settings, mainly when such a vast array of features is available!

3 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (7 months ago)

"[...] not used it as a photographer."

Enlightenment, finally.

DPR was *always* reviewing the cams like that.

That is also why they review bodies only and disregard the impact of the lens system. (But, oh joy, they have posted the A7+legacy lenses article before.)

2 upvotes
luis caramujo
By luis caramujo (7 months ago)

I´ve replaced my nex7 with a A7r with FE35 2.8.(plus charger and extra battery).
I liked the Nex very much, but this one is far superior.
the only thing i miss is the flash, for indoor portraits (i like to shoot at low ISO, at least until someone creates a sensor that can crop at 12800 like today´s sensor crop at 100).
A small pocket size flash would be welcome, or better, a wireless trigger with a small flash ( selectable)

9 upvotes
UnChatNoir
By UnChatNoir (7 months ago)

I didn't had my hands on an A7 or A7r, but I can imagine DPReview tells a few things that the fan crowd doesn't necessarily likes. The same happened for a long time with the Fuji X-series. Owning both a pro-DSLR and a X-Pro1, I can say, well, I like the MLIC lightweight and even IQ, but regarding reliability, speed and flexibility, nothing still beats a pro-line DSLR. However, having spend the money to MLIC, quite some people have problems to admit this, even more: they start believing the opposite. A DSLR is crap, outdated, for those 'not seeing the light'. Well, I'm one of those that returned from a MLIC to a full blown DSLR. And I must admit, everything falls back into its place. 55 years of Lens experience, 10 years of new models & firmware development have ironed out all the possible glitches while with a MLIC, every mission is a new challenge. And from what I read about the A7 and A7r, it's pretty much the same as with all the other MLIC: first gen stuff for the adventurers.

8 upvotes
blue_skies
By blue_skies (7 months ago)

I believe that you are 100% correct, and also that your comment is also completely besides the main issue here, imho.

MILC cameras have (lots of) quirks, all of them. And Gen.1 cameras suffer from (designer’s) quirks – usually some decent customer feedback improves on things.

I see the main reason for the backlash of comments being that the vast majority of A7 (now experienced) users simply do not notice, experience or agree with DPreview's findings.

Either DPreview make a mountain out of a molehill, or they did not appreciate the camera in its own context, i.e. the way that users are actually using the camera. Either way, it makes you question the reviewer, for being prejudiced, inexperienced, biased, ignorant, new at this, or inconsistent.

If the review had been very much in line with other reviews, people would not react as strongly. But as written, the review does not align very well with past reviews, other than for the spec/details sections.

And that is noticeable.

24 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

@UnChatNoir. Sadly, your "10 years of new models & firmware development have ironed out all the possible glitches" comment on the DSLR will seem wishful thinking to those of us who use DSLR's as part of our professional lives. I have been happy to update Canon and Nikon firmware over the years to patch problems.

Each new model brings new technology that needs programming in the firmware. The name may stay the same, but believe me, the technology (hardware/software) is in constant change.

"55 years of lens experience" didn't prevent one of my professional grade lenses from recently needing replacement straight out of the box either.

I've invested in various systems as needed, Phase One medium format, DSLR, mirrorless and compact. Which I use depends on what situation I am faced with. Type or brand isn't important. If Starbucks brought out a kick ass camera system tomorrow, I'd be looking at the possibilities it offered too. :-)

4 upvotes
Northgrove
By Northgrove (7 months ago)

Yes, MILC's are definitely not "one shoe fits all" cameras, but there's also a reason for people looking for them, turning from DSLR's. And I've found that with a MILC, you need more time than usual to accustom yourself to the camera quirks in terms of auto focusing (the contrast-based AF seems like the by far most common issue people have with them).

I've used one of the horror examples here; the Fujifilm X100. Even with Firmware 2.0, it's not as fast and has as reliable focus as my Nikon D90, but since getting used to where it succeeds and fails, I can avoid these problems for the most part, and I never really have trouble with static subjects.

So I'd say that a DSLR is most useful to maximize speed and realibility, but you often simply can't lug around a "pro-line DSLR" (this often implies full-frame) conveniently in all circumstances.

I think the MILC format presents a new tool for the job. It's not perfect for all circumstances, but a big DSLR isn't really either.

2 upvotes
Rocky Mtn Old Boy
By Rocky Mtn Old Boy (7 months ago)

@ DaveE1... Bravo, sir... bravo.

Finally, a true professional speaks. Cameras are merely tools of the trade. The fanboys notwithstanding, no one camera is all things to all shooters. If you compare an A7r to a D800, you've actually missed the mark. It's complementary as hell to all the Sony folks out there... but you've really missed the point.

0 upvotes
Dan_168
By Dan_168 (7 months ago)

So true "@UnchatNoir", me too a long time owner of 1DS and D3 series pro camera and owner of Sony A7 and GF and "soon to be" A7R owner, I for one not going to replace any of my pro DSLR with any of the new mirrorlss as yet no matter what sensor they put in there, just can't stand the form factor and ergonomics of these little cameras as a everyday tools, for the case of D800E and A7R, I will definitely keep on using the D800E for any serious work over the a7R, actually I even have to put a vertical grip to my D800E to make it more comfortable to use it everyday, talking about size and weight, I wish they put that same sensor in the D4 body and I will be the first one to pre-order it. with that being said, the A7R will just be nice addition to what I have but definitely not replacement for my DSLRs.

One real benefit I saw in the a7R though, I can now use my TSE-17 and TSE 24 on a D800E quality sensor, that's something I can't do currently with my SLRs.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 13 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
blue_skies
By blue_skies (7 months ago)

It is funny how DPreview's own interpretation of the Studio Comparison tool does not line up with the conclusion in the review:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52988853

14 upvotes
pacnwhobbyist
By pacnwhobbyist (7 months ago)

Would a firmware update be able to address some of the issues with the JPEGs, I wonder?

0 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (7 months ago)

Sure, but releasing a new firmware version to change the default settings for High ISO NR & sharpening seems a bit over the top.

IF Sony would actually do this, what should the relase notes say?
"New firmware to plase review sites how cannot adjust settings to their own liking."
I don't think it will happen.

17 upvotes
boardsy
By boardsy (7 months ago)

A firmware update to this review is what's needed, so people don't actually believe that the JPG output is terrible - it's not, but - shock! - artefacts start showing up at very high ISOs and if NR is at it's highest settings. These are non-issues given silly amount of importance by a reviewer searching for negatives. Bad for DPR's credibility mainly, and maybe to comfirm bias by religious anti-Sony/MILC types.

6 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (7 months ago)

Dpreview re-review the first NEX cameras after firmware update and the did get much higher score.

1 upvote
pcblade
By pcblade (7 months ago)

I've only one complaint with my A7 : why not proposing a 1:1 format ? I sadly regret the opportunity offered by m43 to use the square format

3 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

Besides the fact that a square likely wouldn't be a real draw for consumers, the sensor price would be a good bit higher:

A limited number of sensors can be manufactured from each blank, which only come in one size I believe. Increasing the size of the sensor means there's more opportunity for a sensor to have a fault in it, so this all means that a sensor 50% bigger does not simply cost 50% more to make.

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

good or not landscape 16:9 is going to be most popular format that people view photos.

1 upvote
HFLM
By HFLM (7 months ago)

Another thread discussing it:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3599612#forum-post-52809694
Forget the conspiracy against Sony. Even if it were a minor issue (and probably it is) it was s.th. the reviewers didn't find in the D610, for example, for similar testing conditions. Together with the minor quibbles and lack of system behind it a silver award is great. If you enjoy it continue to enjoy it.

4 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

If I'm not wrong "EdnaBambrick" got banned for being a reincarnation of a certain infamous troll.

Banding is present in all camera JPEGs, the only question is degree of tolerance. You can see it in the DPR side-by-side sample with the Nikon in this review - Nikon shows it too, just less. The question is whether it is significant or not.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

The E-M5 had peculiar banding with certain lenses. DPR missed it (I think), but they set things right by testing the E-M1 for same banding issues.

3 upvotes
HFLM
By HFLM (7 months ago)

With high-end cameras being so close, you can't give gold awards to all of them, so you need to look at 100% to see significant differences.
Comparing A4 prints, what would happen?

3 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

You can see in the other discussion thread about banding: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3613339?page=2#forum-post-52987749

D800 vs A7. Which one bands worse?

1 upvote
HFLM
By HFLM (7 months ago)

quezra: In my opinion Sony processors are leading the pack currently, this is why I chose the D610 (Sony processor, too, worked better for me too than A7, but maybe if more lenses are available) and OMD-Em1 as a complement. I had the D7100 before (Toshiba, significant banding) and tried the Canon 6D (best budget low light camera right now, but he D610 keeps track until ISO6400, before Canon clearly pulls away). As 90% of my pictures are below ISO3200 the D610 is the better package. The biggest anointment for me was the Sony battery life and shutter button along with the long blackout time when switching from LCD to VF. I like the grip on a DSLR better, too, but that's personal preference. I observed differences in image quality at 100% only, so overall it's a great camera.
Nevertheless it's shocking, how close m43 is if you don't print large and use good glass. There probably will be a point soon, when format differences are not that important anymore, but other things (networking)?

1 upvote
blue_skies
By blue_skies (7 months ago)

@HFLM: "Nevertheless it's shocking, how close m43 is if you don't print large and use good glass. ... ?"

I partially disagree - in the Studio Comparison tool you can clearly see m43 (EM1), APS-C (Nex-6) - both at 16Mp - and the A7, all showing different results, especially at higher ISOs.

But I agree that, if you don’t print large, a smaller sensor camera may suffice. Why stop at m43? If your only output is HD (tablets, monitors, TV), even a much smaller sensor cameras will do just fine, at low ISO. They have the resolution and can produce impressive images. Consider the RX100-II? Or the RX10?

Not very shocking to me :)

Still, I believe in sensor size when it comes to low light (high ISO), cropping (resolution), lens choices (FF is much easier on older lenses), (shallow) DOF control, creative photography (shift, fisheye, wide angle), DR and color rendering. This where the A7 and your D610, as full FF cameras, deliver, and where smaller sensors cameras simply cannot keep up.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
HFLM
By HFLM (7 months ago)

In fact, cropping and DOF are the two issues why I added a FF camera to my m43. Using flash and available light I usually don't get above ISO1600. But I like shallow DOF and here lens choices are scarce (Voigtländer is nice but manual focusing and expensive compared to the other lenses). The new 42.5/1.2 is 1500 Euros. For that money I bought the D610 and the 50/1.8.
Otherwise, the difference in image quality is not large when printing small and staying below certain ISO values.

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

HFLM:

Just so you know, the Olympus EM1 uses a Sony sensor, as does the D800.

0 upvotes
Kiril Karaatanasov
By Kiril Karaatanasov (7 months ago)

Weird even the long time anti-Sony protagnist Ken Rockwell likes A7 but DPR does not?

http://www.kenrockwell.com/sony/a7.htm

How much do DPR stand to gain from the smear campaign?

4 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Because he likes other Sony cameras like the A99, the A55 or the A33?

Kinda like DPR had high praise for the NEX7, NEX5N or the A99. I thought they had a smear campaign going?

In the end, Rockwell is just one guy who happens to have a difference of opinion over one camera with the bunch of guys running DPR.

Edit: six days after Rockwell bought his A7

"The Sony is a toy from one of the world's leaders in video and audio gear. It's fun to put different lenses on it, but it can't compete with real cameras from Nikon and Canon."

lol I guess he's part of the conspiracy/smear campaign.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
9 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (7 months ago)

Love jpegs :)
The D610 isn't reviewed yet, but from the text I've seen it considered as 'better' - So what does better mean:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/5639653565/photos/2819517/

I'm guessing that removing 100% of the details in the door, whilst still being able to keep all the noise in the darker areas is 'better'.
Canon is as a result worse, it can also remove the details, but it fails to keep the noise.

I'm surprised to no disturbing posterization neither in the top of the image nor on the 'hat' on the lower head.
Shouldn't it have been visible there?

And here I thought that detail was good and noise was bad. I stand humbly corrected, and look forward to the review of D610.

As Troj states below, pick your poison, everyone can find a jpeg comparison that support their thesis. Both me and dpr.

8 upvotes
AlpCns2
By AlpCns2 (7 months ago)

All (camera) manufacturers make some good and some less successful products. That includes Sony.

Yet, I see the s**tstorm still continues. Why DPR accepts such comments -or sees any value in it- is beyond me. It seems that after thousands of years of technical development and evolution we are back at square one:

Kill the messenger. Off with his head!

Even in the face of irrefutable evidence people defend their pet brand/camera/lens as if it was something precious, sacred, and completely irreplaceable. Many cameras, lenses, filters, heck even simple accessories such as neck straps have flaws. Sometimes real big ones, sometimes small niggles.

It is the DUTY of any capable and honest reviewer to find, test, quantify, verify and report about all design success and flaws alike. Get over it, or simply ignore it. But don't kill the messenger.

That's sooo primitive and, frankly, disgusting.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
11 upvotes
UnitedNations
By UnitedNations (7 months ago)

There are more important things in life than getting emotional over dpreview comments.

Go take a nap.

1 upvote
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

Lol looks like you didn't actually read the review either! Here is my response,quoting DPR themselves at every turn: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3612932

7 upvotes
AlpCns2
By AlpCns2 (7 months ago)

@quezra: Your analysis of the analysis is extensive - but again focuses on the (only one) messenger, DPR. There are more users who have reported the same issues - and not only at extreme ISO's.

Nevertheless, a firmware update might solve it so there's no need (for many) to get all worked up about it. After all, the same review points out that its a good camera. Like I said before: the review is simply pointing out legitimate issues, like like DPR does with any other camera or accessory. Completely fair.

The fact remains that JPEG's are important for quite a few photographers.

5 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

No, it concentrates on the message (not the messenger, I'm sure they're swell guys). Because the message is unrepresentative of the quality actually there. Check out the comparison widgets for yourself. In their 'test' scenes none of the things they talk about are present, while in many parts of the scene the results are superior to other FF cameras. Check out Imatest results (http://www.imatest.com/2013/11/sharpness-texture-log-f-contrast-imaging-resource/), which firmly put Sony's engine ahead of everyone else for sharpening.

So to end by saying there are disappointing JPEGs is a huge stretch - and of course I say that as a JPEG shooter who does want JPEG performance to be important.

9 upvotes
AlpCns2
By AlpCns2 (7 months ago)

@quezra: There are more users who have reported the same issues - and not only at extreme ISO's. I doubt these users make it all up or misinterpret what they are seeing.

I don't doubt it's a great camera capable of fantastic results. Sony makes some very impressive and innovative products, ignoring some of their lenses for a moment.

It seems that under certain circumstances (combinations of many variables, such as NR settings) the engine does have hiccups. So be it - most people won't even notice.

The point is that it's there, under certain circumstances, and it shouldn't be. I've heard multiple reports of that, from actual users. Again, in my humble opinion DPR does an excellent job of finding these such issues (with ANY brand) and truthfully report on it. I simply cannot have any problem with that. I would have major problems with them ignoring flaws - intermittent or not.

A spade is a spade. The truth is incontrovertible. A firmware update might solve it, and all is well.

4 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

Heh I'll take your retreat from the wild accusations of your initial post as the best I can expect from someone popping in just to diss the camera and comments :)

3 upvotes
AlpCns2
By AlpCns2 (7 months ago)

@quezra: A very disappointing reply, my friend, besides ignoring all facts mentioned. Which unfortunately validates all the more what I wrote earlier - no honest discussion seems possible. You are completely free to ignore facts, of course, but you will be kind enough to acknowledge that in such case you're only deluding yourself.

Since you're now resorting to "heh" and "lol" and such remarks, this then is the end of this most enlightening conversation. Have a nice day.

2 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

Actually it is you that ignored all my "facts" mentioned - with links to scientific tests. You on the other hand just repeated a claim that other people reported issues with no evidence. The one complaint I see in the Sony forums (that appeared after this exchange) shows clearly that his resizing of the image was the biggest culprit in the banding - i.e. it was his Photoshop not the camera. JPEG is lossy, that is fact. But how lossy is all about degrees, and in this review the degrees spotted by DPR are extremely marginal.

2 upvotes
MikeF4Black
By MikeF4Black (7 months ago)

@Quezra: get a life.

3 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

Maybe the one in need of a life is the Nikon fanboy hanging around in comments of a camera he has no interest in?

3 upvotes
MikeF4Black
By MikeF4Black (7 months ago)

@Quezra: "fanboy": someone defending the product or brand of his choice to an irrational level, whilst criticizing other products and brands.

Did I defend Nikon anywhere? Why should I? As I said, get a life, find something useful to do, community service or something.

Oh, I've got a Contax as well; what does that make me?

Comment edited 40 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
blue_skies
By blue_skies (7 months ago)

Sony made a bold move with their SLT cameras by dropping the OVF for an EVF.

This now matured into a system which is unique in comparison to DSLRs, and the benefits that the EVF delivers with focus peaking, zoom magnification, live preview and DOF and lighting effects is unparalleled for DSLR shooters.

And yet, the A7 is no A99, nor does it pretend to be. For all the things that it lost, it also puts up a new list of benefits that are significant. Losing the OVF is a winner, just read up on the Fuji users with the hybrid viewfinder - many are turning to the EVF, rather than using the OVF.

Should the A7 match Canikon's DSLR capabilities or be punished if it does not? I think that the A7 should be considered in what it does deliver - for it moved the goal-poast. I see Canikon struggling to keep up with innovation.

I don't think that the A7 is a do-all camera of sorts, but it will carve out a very nice niche for itself, and that niche will grow rapidly, as benefits become known.

14 upvotes
sillen
By sillen (7 months ago)

couldn't agree more!

2 upvotes
sillen
By sillen (7 months ago)

The review unfortunately misses the point that A7 creates a new camera segment – “FF Systems that can be brought anywhere”. Instead the review compares the A7 with the legacy DSLR camera segment (represented in the review by 6D and D610).

The review also miss the point that the A7 not only address existing mirrorless and DSLR users, but also creates new user groups who will do new types of FF photography were it wasn’t possible earlier due to DSLR bulk and size, and due to traditional DSLRs intimidation of photo objects, etc.

So instead of comparing the A7 with old DSLR segments, it should be stated that the A7 is the first camera in the new segment, and we will see which camera manufacturer will be second into this segment. Because there will be followers!

4 upvotes
jonikon
By jonikon (7 months ago)

Based on the DPR review of the A7, it is obvious that Sony has overreached with their new line of full frame mirrorless FE cameras. which can not even match the capabilities of Nikon and Canon DSLRs introduced over a year ago.
If Sony still has any ambitions of taking FF market share away from Nikon and Canon after this fiasco , they will have to do a lot better than this feeble attempt of mediocre bodies and FE lens selection. Maybe Sony should instead stick with what they do best, whatever that may be.

5 upvotes
glarry
By glarry (7 months ago)

"which can not even match the capabilities of Nikon and Canon" What are u speaking here? This is about a mirrorless camera where Canon and Nikon are nonexistent, zero , nada. DPR is wrong comparing Sony A7 with canikon slr camera. And Sony is making the best sensors , you enjoy your Nikon coz it got a Sony heart inside, therefore is good Sony is sticking with digital photography.

14 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

It has a FF sensor, is generally in the same price bracket as entry-level FF DSLR's and ultimately aims at replacing same DSLR's (Sony hopes for that anyway). But we shouldn't compare it?

These cameras don't exist in a vacuum, you need a frame of reference (other cameras) in a review, to show how good, or bad, they really are.

So what do you suggest we compare the A7 to? Crop-sensored mirrorless cameras? You could probably show an edge in IQ here, but then many mirrorless brands would run circles around the A7 in general operation and performance and someone just like you would then complain because the comparison is not flattering to the Sony. Typical.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (7 months ago)

You could compare to the cameras allowing video shooting using viewfinder. :-)
Oh, and for the A7r , you could compare it to all other 36MP options out there for owners of pristine Canon glass.
The fact that you se no use for it doesn't mean that no one else doesn't.

3 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (7 months ago)

Funny how many seem so forced to compare it to DSLR's, comfortably overlooking the A99 which is much more designed to operate in that market (even if it differentiates itself too).

And practically none of those seem inclined to make the A7 vs A99 comparison, possibly because their comparisons are often more led by angst than reason to begin with. The A7 is no A99 replacement or competitor, so why compare it to DSLR's and more specifically, why only based on DSLR strengths rather than the mirrorless benefits?

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Compare it to the A99 then.

I have no objection. It's a low seller and usually not on everyone's top of the list, but it's a better camera still.

2 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (7 months ago)

Yes and a sportscar is better than a SUV.
*shrug*

2 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (7 months ago)

As our A7-haters point out regularly, Sony is in second place (after Canon) in terms of gold awards at DPR. This camera is so bad it got a silver yet outscored gold-awardees like SL1, GM1, RX1, etc. So maybe Sony is doing something right overall?

1 upvote
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Maybe, so what was the fuss all about then? Why the need to prove they're wrong? Why the need to write your own review of the A7 as a clear knee-jerk reaction to DPR's opinion?

In any case, nice of you come around. Now to rally your peers to the same realization...

1 upvote
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (7 months ago)

Mirror.. mirror, it's all about mirrors these days. Here's one for you too. ;-)

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Charrick
By Charrick (7 months ago)

How this revolutionary camera can get an 80% to the D600's 87%, I have no idea. Somehow, I think that oil splashes show up on RAW files, too. Sure, maybe it was reviewed before that debacle, but then why not change the score? OK, let's instead compare the A7 to the D610. The D610 has more buttons and JPEG might be better. But the A7 is the smallest full-frame digital camera in the world, and is (along with the A7r) the only true full-frame digital "mirrorless" camera. Shouldn't that count for something? It's like if someone invents a hoverboard that only gets 1 kilometer or 1 mile per charge...so you give a much higher score to a regular skateboard. It doesn't make sense to me.

9 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Think of it this way, the D600 comes from a long line of Nikon DSLRs which the company tinkered with and perfected through the generations, not "revolutionary", but the thing works and that's what really matters for a camera. The D600 (D610) is a better camera.

4 upvotes
Deliverator
By Deliverator (7 months ago)

The oil on sensor problem was overblown.
I think Leica would like to show you their full-frame mirrorless camera line. The line has a complete set of lenses, by the way.
Canikon have refined their lenses, ergonomics and image processing for decades. You think Sony can catch up in a few years?

3 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (7 months ago)

The oil issue was so overblown that they faster than ever issued an update of their FF model... in the shape of a successor. Rather than fixing existing cameras, which apparently they figured would be more costly (also in terms of marketing/brand image damage).

Roger C. from Lensrentals has the most reliable overview of the issue, also due to his access to a large amount of D600's.

1 upvote
Northgrove
By Northgrove (7 months ago)

> How this revolutionary camera can get an 80% to the D600's 87%, I have no idea.

The format and size is revolutionary especially for the price, but the actual use isn't and is even actually a bit quirky at times. This is not just reflected in this review, but also in an awesome review by Ming Thein, a pro photographer that I respect.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
robber98
By robber98 (7 months ago)

Those who think dpreview BS on jpeg engine need to watch this http://youtu.be/96nbKAsu42M.

0 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (7 months ago)

I don't think anyone claims that the images that dpr shows are fakes.
I think most question how much space that should take in a review when there are plenty of settings available to tweak the output.
The images could have looked alot better if they wanted to.
And that raises the question as to why.

4 upvotes
hc44
By hc44 (7 months ago)

Not sure if already posted. There are areas where detail is mashed up into something quite different to the original.

See Queen of Spades top right, the hair fringe (compare with Sony Alpha7 R). Also the Jack of Hearts, the bird shape at the rear of the head. In both cases contiguous lines become a mess of squiggles.

EOS 6D is doing something similar, though not as bad.

0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (7 months ago)

The 6D hides artifacts with other artifacts: strong and thick sharpening halos around almost every contrasty edge. Dark and light extra lines. Plus it smears greens already at low ISO to oblivion.

Pick your poison.

2 upvotes
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (7 months ago)

Whats a JPEG?

3 upvotes
chrisnewtimes
By chrisnewtimes (7 months ago)

I do not spend nearly $2000 bucks, plus lens adapter monies, plus lenses to shoot casual every day JPG images, I use my NEX 7 on auto for that. Or my cell phone.
I own the A7, and "IT IS A GREAT CAMERA", obviously Sony is on DPI hit list for some reason, probably because Sony just is not a company that takes criticism very well, oh wait eh maybe Canon that brings out boring cameras every 11 months, or Nikon don't listen very well either..............

6 upvotes
Abhiru
By Abhiru (7 months ago)

I used to value dpreview information a lot, but this review struck me as strongly biased; there must be a VERY GOOD REASON for dpreview to risc their reputation in such a blatant way.

14 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (7 months ago)

You mean 'risk' and it's not biased.

4 upvotes
Kiril Karaatanasov
By Kiril Karaatanasov (7 months ago)

Barney did you read the M1 review and the A7 review?

Same defects praised in one and in the other damned...Sorry but the DPR is no more than cheap advertisement site at this point for me.

10 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Why would DPR torpedo their Sony sales? By your logic, every camera at DPR should be praised to high heaven in reviews to maximize sale potential in the gear shop..

And you have to stay on script yourself, Kiril. I mean which is it? Is DPR a cheap advertisement site? Is it part of an anti-Sony consiparicy? Or was DPR's only sin not applying the same level of wonderful scrutiny on other cameras as it did so dutifully on the A7? You've argued all three positions.

It sounds like you're desperately throwing everything at the wall, hoping something, anything, will stick.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Abhiru
By Abhiru (7 months ago)

@Barney: Sorry Barn, English is not my native tongue, and in german we call your humble correction 'korinthenkacker'. (You will not find it on Google Tränslate)
I was at this point not talking about the A7 at all: I was talking about the attitude of the testers. It is not a professional attitude to be ironic or cynical in a review.

3 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

Oh give it a rest bluevellet.

Find a product you like. Find a good feature you would like to share thoughts on. Get out of that hole and take some photos.

2 upvotes
jonikon
By jonikon (7 months ago)

If anything DPR was too kind to the A7 in their review. In no way does this camera deserve even the Silver Award based on IQ, handling, AF, and performance, not to mention the pitiful FE lens offerings. Sony may someday produce an improved version of the A7 with some pro FE lenses to mount on it, but until they do, the FE line of cameras is merely a plaything for those fascinated with expensive mirrorless cameras, rather than a serious and competent photographer's tool.

2 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

I'll post as I please. If there's an issue on topic you want to argue with, fine, go right ahead.

But don't tell me or anyone else for that matter to leave just because you happen to disagree with them. Not everyone likes the A7 as much as you do. Deal with it.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
1 upvote
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

Another poop from bluevellet. lol Watch your step - there's quite a few!

No one wants you to leave... you're too much of a laugh. Just try to think of something positive to say about something you like. As was recommended to you earlier, get some fresh air. Take some photos.

As it happens, I don't use Sony for my main work. I won't be buying the A7, but I do recognize advances in technology when I see them.

2 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Follow your advice and lead by example. Maybe it will inspire me and others. I'll take my photos at my own leisure in the meantime.

I'm staying here as long as the topic is hot and nonsense is spewed. So let me ask you, Dave, is DPR just an advertisement site and nothing else? Is DPR orchestrating a smear campaign against Sony? If not then why is it wrong for me to call BS when such comments are made so carelessly?

0 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

To engage with you on your questions...

DPReview has been owned by a large and well known online retailer since 2007. Some will see certain decisions in that context. Personally, i don't believe it is merely an advertisement site and nothing else. So, I agree with you there, but I couldn't be bothered to argue with people who make the opposing point; it's pointless.

DPReview, while showing certain leanings in editorial (possibly understandable given the natural affinity to personal cameras and possible indifference to new technology), hardly embarked on a Sony smear campaign. Again, I'd be broadly in agreement with you, but I don't bother to argue against conspiracies. You'll find the same conspiracy argument with fans of other brands too - not so sure if you are as upset by those.

Why is it wrong to "call BS", as you put it, on anyone posting something positive about Sony? I could tell you, but you'd be offended.

0 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Maybe it's just me, but I think there's a difference between calling people running this site sell-outs and arguing over details like JPEG quality in a camera. One is about an inanimate object, the other about the reputation of actual people. Unless you want to argue that downplaying a Sony camera is dishonoring Kaz Hirai?

And yes, some hardcore Pentax fans can be quite vocal about their nonsense and I do cross path with them, mostly in the several gear of the year articles/features lately.

And you call BS on anything relating to inaminate objects like cameras, I think it can qualify as a discussion on topic here albeit not necessarily in the most constructive manner. Just be sure to back it up and not resort to the "go out and take photos" routine.

0 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

Go out and take photos never fails to be good advice for any or us.

I'd ignore the looney stuff, but stand up for people who like to post positive comments on gear they enjoy or like. In the real world, complainers get very little of my time.

I could easily go to articles on stuff I don't care about and foul up the discussion. I don't. I won't.

0 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

And yet, in both cases where you called BS on me, it was actually in defense of the guy saying looney (and negative) stuff. Nothing to do with a guy just enjoying his gear though he is obviously a Sony fan and owner.

You pretend to be above the fray, but you are quite partisan yourself.

0 upvotes
UnitedNations
By UnitedNations (7 months ago)

Unacceptable JPEG performance.

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

UN, didn't you write this? "There goes my plans of getting any of the future Fuji X APS-C sensor Xtrans cameras. The Sony A7r & A7 here totally blows away even the RX1r & Fuji X-Pro1 on JPEG image processing & dynamic range(not only resolution)... This just shows how expensive the Fujis really are. Now that the A7 is out, Fuji will not be able to price their X-Pro1 or X-E2 & their future X lineup as high as they are doing now. Competition sure is a good thing for the consumers"

8 upvotes
luis caramujo
By luis caramujo (7 months ago)

"Some of the best JPEG processing we've seen yet"
In:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/camera-reviews/sony/a7r/

13 upvotes
fz750
By fz750 (7 months ago)

That is interesting, it has to be said and the image quality at different ISOs (on imaging resource) seems very well done. I wonder why such different results..

Comment edited 51 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
MikeF4Black
By MikeF4Black (7 months ago)

I'm not sure, but I think noone has mentioned the LA adapters yet. Don't they negate the whe "Oh so light, oh so small" concept, and look slightly rodiculois as well? They must serve a very important purpose (VIP).

1 upvote
MikeF4Black
By MikeF4Black (7 months ago)

Apologize for the typo's, hope the message gets across.

0 upvotes
Kiril Karaatanasov
By Kiril Karaatanasov (7 months ago)

If you own Alpha lenses these adapters work well. Note that alpha us DSLR line and the lenses are quite big so adapter size is often negligable. I use a 35-105 and 70-210/4 lenses and they are much bigger than a7 plus adapter. There are also bigger lenses still 135/1.8, 70-400 , 24-70/2.8 etc.

It is not a walkabout combo for sure. It is a working setup that yields quality results.

1 upvote
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Yes it does negate the body size reduction. But like legacy glass, it's a stopgap measure because native lens selection is very limited. It makes little sense to buy Alpha DSLR lenses for your A7, but if you already own them, then I guess it's ok.

1 upvote
MikeF4Black
By MikeF4Black (7 months ago)

So assuming you want to switch over to a compact ff camera, not being a Leica, you get the A7 and are limited to a slow but good 35 and a 55. If you want a decent lens selection (24, 35, 50, 85), you're forced to use that wartlike thing? Laughable.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Mike99999
By Mike99999 (7 months ago)

@MikeF4Black, if you want a decent lens selection you should just wait until March until Zeiss announces its 5 native primes + the 2 additional primes Sony will announce soon.

If you can't wait that long, just get an M-mount adapter and buy all the Zeiss, Leica and Voigtländer lenses your heart desires.

1 upvote
MikeF4Black
By MikeF4Black (7 months ago)

I can wait for a long time; no hurry to get rid of the D800 and 5 top primes, no money and no GAS. Just taking pictures and commenting on comments...

0 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

JPEG review should be tested this way http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3612932

11 upvotes
Overmars
By Overmars (7 months ago)

Much appreciated. Thank you.

2 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (7 months ago)

Yes, this is the professional review.

0 upvotes
SeeRoy
By SeeRoy (7 months ago)

As always the reviews tend to assign enormous importance to the jpeg engine. But it's incomprehensible (to me, anyway) why anyone would be buying a camera of this capability and shooting jpegs. It's not likely to be the choice of journalists who need to be able to zap pix back to the news desk without any delay. I guess some people just can't find the time to process their 24 MP snaps of domestic animals and kids.

5 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Some want lots of MPs with FF. others just want the FF look (bokeh, thin DOF). For the latter group, JPEG would be enough in most non-professional applications since it's about the whole pic, the general look, and not extreme cropping, large prints and pixel-peeping.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
9 upvotes
PaulDavis
By PaulDavis (7 months ago)

This is me to an extent. I got tired of processing raw photos of my friends kids just to email them a photo they are only going to share on Facebook or something. So I decided to shoot jpg for everyday stuff and use raw for images I will want to post process. Now with the nfc I can share pics I take with people right on the spot. It makes the camera more versatile for me. I can use it like smart phone and share pics easily or take amazing raw pics like high end slr.

5 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

JPEG could be overkill for high resolution images, say greater than 300 MPix, for bits per pixel will drop down and resolution at pixel level will become less important.

0 upvotes
kadardr
By kadardr (7 months ago)

One thing is sure: Sony Alpha 7 series (A7/R) initiated new momentum and growth on the FF camera market.

In one year there will be several new full frame cameras launched, there can be other mirrorless ones, and not only from Sony.

Competition and volume will make prices go down.

Great times.

11 upvotes
Stu 5
By Stu 5 (7 months ago)

initiated new momentum... it has hardly made a blip on the radar compared to sales of different FF DSLR's models. At the rate Sony is moving at it will take them two years at least to establish a lens range and a new generation of the camera 'before' and more importantly 'if' it generates more interest. Yes mirrorless FF is the future but if that future is with Sony is another thing. The danger is if Canon or Nikon bring something out and get it right from day one with a lens range whilst Sony are still trying to get their act together. Sony bringing this system out prematurely before it was ready might backfire on them. At the moment it is not creating the volume of sales required to concern Canon or Nikon.

4 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

Do you have the numbers Stu? I haven't seen so many Nikon and Canon shooters sold their dinosaur bulky DSLRs after purchasing A7/r or added A7/r to their collections. How do I know? just look at the number of new users on the DP Sony forum talking highly of their new camera and this is only one forum. And lastly, it is really affecting you that Sony has created these amazing cameras that you are non stop spreading made up negative posts about the cameras.

6 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Other mirrorless systems also get their regular DSLR defactors. NEX did too before the A7's. It doesn't mean it's finally the turning point, where the world goes mirrorless. It's always been a trickle of defectors so far.

The big numbers show mirrorless has struggled to grow passed a plateau (particularly in the Western world), it remains a minority market with interchangeable lens systems, this hasn't changed, and the actual modest sales of the A7's serve as final confirmation.

Maybe mirrorless will break through eventually, maybe it will even be the successors to the A7's, but that's just wishful thinking.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

A7/r are the FIRST FF mirrorless cameras so it is groundbreaking that could change the make up of the professional camera sales in the months or years to come.

5 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

I thought it was common knowledge that the big camera companies are looking at falling sales figures for high-end DSLR's and entry level compacts.

Please note that those figures do not mean that no one will be buying a DSLR in the near future; that's simply not the way to read the trend. A large part of the market for DSLR's has recently been prosumer, or those who are taking advantage of higher spec at lower price points.

Why were Nikon, Canon, etc, not first to market with these new Sony specs in mirrorless cameras? Simply put... market segmentation and strategy. But they are having to quickly rethink everything in the light of recent consumer trends.

2 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

...to continue my point, cut off due to character limit...

The iPhone/smartphone has had a huge effect on the consumer end of the market, requiring manufacturers to justify the need for a "second camera" to many (regardless of what you might think about using a phone as a camera).

If a company produced a very high end medium format camera at a lower price point, you would have another big adjustment in the types of cameras produced in the prosumer arrea. Nikon, Canon, Sony and all would be scrambling to produce medium format products too. Look at what RED did for video cameras... something that once cost 250,000 dollars now costs tens of thousands! Little wonder that it is now standard kit on the top grossing film sets.

"kadardr" has a point in the original post. Even if some wish he/she didn't.

1 upvote
HFLM
By HFLM (7 months ago)

What about Sony Rx1, Leica? They have been there before.
Sony A7(r) are not groundbreaking, its an evolution (albeit a great one). Is it so difficult to put a FF sensor in a mirrorless body, if the knowledge to do so with APS-C or RX1 or Leica has been there already? It's a great management decision to risk it.
DSLRs are about 80% of the interchangeable lens camera sales worldwide (http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/bcns-final-japanese-market.html). Situation for mirror less is best in Japan (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/). I don't understand why people take this review so personal, the A7 is not your child.

2 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

@HFLM: You will find that many people have issues with recent reviews. I think you have misunderstood most comments if you think people are taking it personally.

A lot of people love DPReview (or did in the past). They can be forgiven for complaining when they feel that standards are slipping. DPReview should be flattered that people care about the integrity of the site enough to take time to voice their opinions.

I don't understand why you take comments so personal, DPReview is not your child.

2 upvotes
Heaven is for real
By Heaven is for real (7 months ago)

I think the reason for the delay of the A7r DP review is they are reviewing or rewritting their report after witnessing the backlash and disagreement by the majority of the A7 review!

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
Stu 5
By Stu 5 (7 months ago)

Or maybe it is because of the simple reason the camera was released later than the A7 and they have not yet finished writing it.

4 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

Or they write them one at a time?

Anyway, they should stick to their guns and report things as they see them. Yielding to (fanboy) mob rule would set a bad precedent.

5 upvotes
Stu 5
By Stu 5 (7 months ago)

They were not available to purchase at the same time. The A7r came out weeks later. It is that simple. That is why the review did not come out at the same time. It took 3 people to do the A7 review. You need to give them time to finish the review off.

3 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

@Stu 5, do you really think that the reviewers buy all of this equipment in their local camera stores?

Both cameras were available at the same time. I had both in my hands prior to sale. So had many others who posted reviews online.

Your Sony bashing is getting tiresome. I wonder if many people read beyond the "By Stu 5" bit a the top anymore ;-)

4 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (7 months ago)

Dave I think instead of bashing Stu, you should provide proof that DPR had both at the exact same time.

1 upvote
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

Hi cgarrard. Pleased to meet you. Sorry for not noticing you there. ;-)

If DPReview didn't get their hands on both sooner, they need to get quick tips from some of the YouTube part time reviewers and students who do their own little reviews. lol But seriously, I would be surprised if they didn't have access to such a noteworthy camera. The staggering of the reviews is more likely down to scheduling on their part.

1 upvote
bluevellet
By bluevellet (7 months ago)

But then they'd be accused of reviewing the cameras too quickly with superficial, Youtube-type commentary.

They've already mentionned getting the camera from Sony and requesting another one to make sure their findings were correct. Who knows how long the delay was for getting both cameras.

0 upvotes
JoeWall
By JoeWall (7 months ago)

Given the dxomark scores, I think the A7 should be compared to D800 and 5D mark II, not 6D or D610. And the A7R should be compared to D800E and canon 1DX

3 upvotes
manis404
By manis404 (7 months ago)

Unbelievable! This camera deserves way more than 80%!

7 upvotes
DaveE1
By DaveE1 (7 months ago)

And it has more than 80% from those who use it.

How DPReview wants to present a camera should have no bearing on your decision whether to buy or not buy it. They have their own reasons for awarding scores the way they do.

Enjoy the banter here though.

2 upvotes
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