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Leica T (Typ 701) First Impressions Review

April 2014 | By Andy Westlake


Preview based on a pre-production Leica T (Typ 701)

This year marks Leica's 100th birthday as a camera maker and, to celebrate, the venerable German manufacturer has launched an all-new camera system. Perhaps unexpectedly, though, Leica hasn't taken the obvious route and embraced the current fashion for 'retro' design with an interchangeable-lens version of its X Vario APS-C compact. Instead the Leica T is an innovative camera that combines photographer-friendly twin-dial control with a bang-up-to-date touchscreen interface.

Before we go any further, though, let's get the pricing out of the way. The Leica T is going to set you back £1350 for the body alone - a fraction more than the original X1. Two lenses will be available at launch; the 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 zoom (27-84mm equivalent) will cost £1250, and the 23mm f/2 prime (which offers a 35mm equivalent angle-of-view) will be £1350. This places it in the same price bracket as the 36MP full frame Sony A7R as one of the most expensive mirrorless camera systems on the market, and means that only well-heeled photographers are likely to get their hands on one. Leica exists in a particularly rarefied space and, while the T is designed to appeal to a different type of buyer than either the X compacts or the M system, it is not in any way intended as a mass-market product.

This is a pity, because the Leica T turns out to be a really attractive camera. Its body is hewn from a single block of aluminum, which makes it an extraordinarily tactile, and rather beautiful object. It has five controls on its top plate - shutter button, video record button, power switch and two dials - but absolutely everything else is controlled via the large 3.7", 16:9 touchscreen. This, you can't help but feel, is the kind of camera that Apple might make, if it were so inclined.

Leica T key features:

  • 16MP APS-C CMOS sensor
  • ISO 100-12500
  • 3.7" 1.3M dot 16:9 touchscreen LCD
  • Twin top-plate control dials
  • Approx 5 fps continuous shooting
  • 1920 x 1080 Full HD movie recording at 30 fps; built-in stereo microphones
  • Built-in Wi-Fi for easy image sharing, and remote control by smartphone or tablet
  • Optional 2.36M dot electronic viewfinder with built-in GPS unit
  • Built-in 16GB memory
  • Brand new Leica T mount
  • 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 and 23mm f/2 lenses
  • 11-23mm f/3.5-4.5 and 55-135mm f/3.5-4.5 coming later in the year (at photokina 2014)
  • Available in anodized black or natural aluminum finish

The back of the T is dominated by its large, 16:9 aspect ratio touchscreen, with no physical buttons whatsoever. The main exposure settings are controlled by a pair of top-plate dials, but almost everything else (settings and menus, playback and so on) is operated though a generally well-thought-out touch interface. The back of the camera also proudly proclaims 'Leica Camera Wetzlar Germany', celebrating the company's recent return to its spiritual home. The lenses, by the way, are made in Japan (apparently because Leica doesn't have sufficient capacity in Wetzlar), although contrary to pre-launch internet rumor, they're not made by Panasonic.

The T uses a 16MP APS-C CMOS sensor, with an ISO range from 100-12500. It offers 5fps continuous shooting, and Full HD movie recording with stereo sound. The camera uses an all-new, fully electronic 'T mount', but Leica will also be offering an adapter to allow use of M mount lenses. This has an optical sensor to read the 6-bit code used to identify modern lenses, and electronic contacts to pass this information to the camera.

Naturally the camera has built-in Wi-Fi; this allows both image transfer to a smartphone or tablet, and remote control of shooting (complete with live view feed). It has 16GB of built-in memory, meaning you don't even have to buy an SD card if you don't want to. The battery can be charged internally via the camera's micro USB port, but Leica includes an external charger in the box too, giving the best of both worlds.

'Unibody' design

Leica is very proud of the T's unique 'unibody' design. Most cameras are built around an internal chassis, with all of the electronics fixed to it and a body skin finally added over the top. Leica has done something completely different; instead the body is formed from a solid block of aluminum, with all of the electronics attached to it directly. The result is an extraordinarily tactile, solid-feeling object.

The Leica T's body is formed from a 1.2kg block of aluminum, which is machined down to 94g at Leica's factory in Wetzlar, then subjected 45 minutes of hand-polishing. The camera has no separate internal chassis; instead everything is attached to this shell. Now you know why it costs so much...

Lenses and accessories

The Leica T launches with two lenses, a zoom and a prime. The Vario-Elmar-T 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 is a compact zoom that offers a 27-84mm equivalent range, while the Summicron-T 23mm f/2 ASPH is a small prime that offers a classic 35mm equivalent moderate wide-angle view. Both use a thoroughly modern design approach, with a fully-electronic mount, near-silent internal focusing, and electronically-coupled manual focus.

The first two lenses for the T system are the Summicron-T 23mm f/2 ASPH (left) and Vario-Elmar-T 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6. The Vario-Elmar-T 55-135mm f/3.5-4.5 ASPH telezoom and Super-Vario-Elmar-T 11-23mm f/3.5-4.5 ASPH wide-angle zoom are both scheduled to appear in time to be shown in September at photokina 2014.

Not unexpectedly these lenses are seriously pricey, at around $1500 / £1300 each (or roughly half the price of the camera / lens kit). The zoom doesn't even have optical image stabilization - Leica says it imposes too large a compromise on the optical design - which means the T is about the only system on the market with no image stabilization at all.

There's also a new optional electronic viewfinder, the Visoflex (Typ 020), which slides onto the hotshoe. It uses a new interface on the hot shoe itself, meaning that that it's not cross-compatible with the unit used for the X2, X Vario and M (Typ 240). Leica will also be offering a range of straps and covers in two distinct styles; either traditional-looking leather, or brightly-colored silicone rubber. We'll look at these in more detail later.

Color options and pricing

The T will be available in either a natural aluminum finish, or anodized black. Prices are as follows:

  • Leica T body (Black or Silver) - £1350
  • Vario-Elmar-T 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 - £1250
  • Summicron-T 23mm f/2 ASPH - £1350
  • M-Adapter T mount adapter - £300
  • Visoflex (Typ 020) EVF - £400


If you're new to digital photography you may wish to read the Digital Photography Glossary before diving into this article (it may help you understand some of the terms used).

Conclusion / Recommendation / Ratings are based on the opinion of the reviewer, you should read the ENTIRE review before coming to your own conclusions.

We recommend to make the most of this review you should be able to see the difference (at least) between X,Y and Z and ideally A,B and C.

This article is Copyright 2014 and may NOT in part or in whole be reproduced in any electronic or printed medium without prior permission from the author.

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Comments

Total comments: 2298
12345
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (1 month ago)

Barney,

Since you have the cam for testing, could you drop it on concrete pavement to see if the premium price for " body carved from solid block" of T6061 Al alloy machined in Portugal is worth the expense?

R.

7 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (1 month ago)

It's expensive, sure, but you save $30 by not having to buy one of Richard's handgrips.

5 upvotes
NCB
By NCB (1 month ago)

OK, you go out and snap away with the T just as you might with say a Sony CSC, and it's not the same. DPReview didn't like the Nikon Df either, for much the same reasons. I have the Df. It's a dream of a camera and I wouldn't be parted from it.

Not all of us go around with our digicam glued to the eye and snapping at everything which moves. For a start, you miss a lot of good scenes that way. Some of us take our time. I see a scene which has got something and mentally frame the possibilities before ever I get the camera out. I turn it on and twiddle the odd setting, if necessary, before it gets to the eye. There's nothing in the operation of the T which you've run through which would put me off. In the slightest.

I want sharp pics with the right colour and exposure. The JPGs might be a tad flat; seeing what alternative settings could do would be useful. But the colours are superbly natural. The T has distinct attractions.

Expensive? Not for a Leica. Or other options for that matter.

3 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (1 month ago)

I don't see why you can't use any camera as slowly and methodically as you would want. But if the camera won't work as quickly as you need, you are out of luck.

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
TCMercury
By TCMercury (1 month ago)

Exactly. I also tend to take my time, even in street photography, but that doesn't mean I'd want to remove the option to speed up if a cycle race suddenly went thundering past.

1 upvote
NCB
By NCB (1 month ago)

If you need speed, fine, this camera probably isn't for you. The only time I need speed is when light is changing fast over a landscape. But if I miss the moment I just hang around until it changes back.

0 upvotes
PhotoKhan
By PhotoKhan (1 month ago)

The sample photos look excellent.

3 upvotes
whtchocla7e
By whtchocla7e (1 month ago)

As a proud owner of the Hassy Lunar, I find this Leica thing repulsive. It looks cheap and I wouldn't want to be seen carrying it out in public.

14 upvotes
b craw
By b craw (1 month ago)

Okay, I'm pretty clear about many thinking this model a status symbol (and perhaps Leica cameras on the whole). And performance criticisms - fair. Criticism of price and value - fair. But at the end of the day some will choose this camera. And that will be dependent on a range of justifications. So long as a modern camera can produce good image results (as I'm sure this one can), then handling, tactile qualities/build, interface are relavent in relation to the depth of one's pockets. And I know quite a few less than wealthy but pretty successful art photographers who simply preference feel, and feel it part of the photography experience to a degree that they are willing to pay a premium (even without trust funds). They are talented individuals - not dumb or misinformed in any way. And their accomplishments are evidence of this. Many comments paint all Leica users as something akin to surgeons, casual photographers, whom want to walking about with expensive, chic gear. That is naive.

0 upvotes
munro harrap
By munro harrap (1 month ago)

Years ago we all used Leicas, usually a pair to be able to have a wide and standard lens without having to change lenses. They were reliable, fast and everything could be prefocussed using the depth of field scales on the lenses- which were accurate. There was, as now with Ms, no autofocus.
You will be able to do this with primes on this thing. But they are again starting people on an unecessary expensive upgrade path as Leicas as such are now all full-frame.
In three years time they'll make this full-frame like they did the M8 with the M9, so unless you want to fork out for lenses and a full-frame body all over again just buy a Nex7.
Mind you this is at least without those dreadful wooden handles Hasselblad came up with, but then it has no decent grip and is a mere 16MP.
A name does not make it a Leica- there are dozens of Leicas that do not merit the cachet the name somehow has.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
b craw
By b craw (1 month ago)

I can see some merit in concern for the longevity of this system. But, ultimately, that is highly dependent on less than water tight speculation. Still, a fair point.

Grip is not an issue in my handling of the camera.

16MP is my preference, considering sensor size.

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (1 month ago)

munro harrap says it well. After Nikon and Canon got out of RF cameras, a Leica M was standard issue for low light, low noise and sharp wide angles. These cameras were never cheap but they offered things you really couldn't get with a Nikon F or similar.

At the same time there were cameras like the Leicaflex, SL, SL2, R3, R4, etc that while being perfectly good cameras did not offer anything you couldn't get from any other SLR and the fact that they were Leicas and priced accordingly didn't change that at all.

2 upvotes
munro harrap
By munro harrap (1 month ago)

Looks like a NEX 6 sensor in a NEX7 body robbed of a decent viewfinder to me.

2 upvotes
yonsarh
By yonsarh (1 month ago)

I don't understand why some of you have negative comments. Infact,Leica T is not that bad. picture quality seems nice and if I have money, I would buy this camera.

0 upvotes
nunatak
By nunatak (1 month ago)

put in perspective, the price/performance ratio of the Leica-T makes the criticisms of the Nikon V3 seem relatively trivial in comparison. i did not think that possible.

4 upvotes
coso dp
By coso dp (1 month ago)

Not considering price it's basically a Canon EOS M in an awesome metal chassis.

6 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (1 month ago)

It's faster at focusing and has a better sensor but I see your point.

7 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

Maybe a Sony a6000 with a M-lenses adapter is interesting too?

I thought about it, but not at ease with sony interface. Still seems to be a wise choice to do street photography, and probably much better than the Leica T (if you are not into fashion world. I am).

2 upvotes
67gtonr
By 67gtonr (1 month ago)

@Richard, utilizing which AF mode on the EOS M, did you ever try the Touch Shutter? Which lens on the M, as they take different times to focus. Have you tried the EF-M 11-22?

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (1 month ago)

@67gtonr - I've not used the 11-22mm (which I'm not sure has even been formally announced in the US) - I was comparing the 18-55 and 32mm to the 18-55 and 22mm.

1 upvote
67gtonr
By 67gtonr (1 month ago)

@Richard-Thank for your reply, I'll take your word for it then, as I can't see myself ever having the opportunity to try the Leica out myself, and the speed of the Canon M2 will also not come to play as it also is not sold through Canon USA.

0 upvotes
PhotoKhan
By PhotoKhan (1 month ago)

@Richard Butler,

Is the focusing faster than the M2?
...or is it the case that, besides not listing it in the 2013 list of Canon cameras, DPR has actually decided it does not exist?

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (1 month ago)

@PhotoKhan

I have no idea about the EOS M2 (and would love to know, since a faster-focusing EOS M would be a rather nice camera).

It's not so much that we've decided it doesn't exist, just that it's a little hard to get full images and info about it, since it's still Japan-only, so far as we know.

0 upvotes
PhotoKhan
By PhotoKhan (1 month ago)

Yes, I understand the limitations (almost impossibility) of reviewing a camera that only exists in some selected Far-East countries.

But I feel you could list it in the Product Database, if for anything else, for the sake of completeness.

If and when the M3 is launched the DB will look strange without an M2 in-between the M1 and M3, don't' you think?

More "significant cameras market fragmentation" cases like these could emerge and you must decide if you want to be a global reference site or just a "regional" (no matter how widely) one.

1 upvote
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (1 month ago)

If someone tried to give me this camera as a gift, I would take it.

Then I would put it on ebay, and sell it for $1,850, since it is currently out of stock at Amazon. Then, I would use the part of the money to buy an Olympus 75mm f/1.8 lens, and put the other thousand dollars in my pocket.

I would send a nice thank you note to the kind person who gave me that gift.

And Barney would take the camera too, if it wasn't for Simon's rule about accepting gifts from camera companies. In fact, I'd guess that Barney's own sense of integrity would prevent him from taking it without a rule forbidding it.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
11 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (1 month ago)

Yeah the 'gift' thing is hypothetical. And it's not Simon's rule, it's pretty much just common sense :)

4 upvotes
Just another Canon shooter

It would match my kitchen appliances.

4 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (1 month ago)

Evidence that Leica T is manufactured by Panasonic is piling up.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

ThePhilips:

Which part, the Sony sensor? The aluminum block?

And what does your claim have to do with the OP?

0 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (1 month ago)

Oh man, you need to relax. That was a humorous remark, since Panasonic also manufactures kitchen appliances.

0 upvotes
ARB1
By ARB1 (1 month ago)

I wonder if I can just purchase the little red Leica sticker and put it on my Olympus OMD.

4 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

Why not? Good PanaLeica lenses to use. But not the same sensor.

0 upvotes
qwertyasdf
By qwertyasdf (1 month ago)

Sure you can, be prepared to shell out $1,000 for it.

0 upvotes
Valentinian
By Valentinian (1 month ago)

Nah.... I wouldn't do that to my good old E-M5

Comment edited 52 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
whywefight
By whywefight (1 month ago)

"The pricing is bonkers by anyone's standards..." So please, what does this have to do with the shooting experience?

Start up time and selection of the autofocus point!? That's all!? No other complaints? This review would be a lot more convincing if it both mentioned pros and con's of the interface. But it is written with so much anger and so one sided that it cannot be taken serious. Someone appears to have chosen to dislike the camera because he cannot afford it. This is my clear impression.

I extensively tested the camera in a Leica store. Anyone who claims he cannot tell apart the two rear dials must be bonkers by anyone's standards. Please get real. Since the interface of this camera is completely new and vastly different from usual cameras, I expected a thorough discussion of the pros and con's. Instead you get to read this childish rant. I am very disappointed.

2 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (1 month ago)

This is not a review.

15 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

whywefight,

Check the date on the first impressions "review".

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (1 month ago)

Boy's at DPR can't win them all that's for sure. Keep up with the honest shooting experience articles crew, they are great reads.

4 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (1 month ago)

Thankye, kind sir.

0 upvotes
BJN
By BJN (1 month ago)

I can take intelligent observations about a poorly designed interface seriously. I don't think I can take your "extensive" in-store test seriously, but apparently you don't care to share your own pros and cons.

1 upvote
67gtonr
By 67gtonr (1 month ago)

DPR praises Leica for doing something that Canon did with the EOS M two years ago, except that everything the Leica does the Canon does better!

2 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (1 month ago)

Even focus speed? Ouch.

0 upvotes
67gtonr
By 67gtonr (1 month ago)

Absolutely.

0 upvotes
67gtonr
By 67gtonr (1 month ago)

With the year old firmware the auto focus speed is equal to that of the Nex cameras (prior to the A6000) according to those that use both.

0 upvotes
67gtonr
By 67gtonr (1 month ago)

The EOS M also has Touch Shutter, wherein you touch the where at on the screen you want focus and the camera focuses and instantly captures the scene, this make the focusing even faster and something totally lacking on the Leica.

0 upvotes
PhotoKhan
By PhotoKhan (1 month ago)

@quezra

Focus speed on the M2 is not a factor.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Flashback
By Flashback (1 month ago)

It's Leica glass stupid....

I remember, everybody rubbishing the earlier X1, but boy did it produce some beautiful images.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

While many Leica lenses are amazing, including m4/3s PanaLeicas and the X-Vario's lens, I'm not real impressed with the DNGs I shot with this T and the 23mm lens. They're good, not great.

For that price they should be great, perhaps something can be tweaked in the firmware to improve IQ, since other Leica X cams do excellent IQ.

2 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (1 month ago)

"For that price they should be great"

You know, that is a review in itself. Nuff said right there, done deal.

Carl

2 upvotes
caravan
By caravan (1 month ago)

Good luck and enjoy to all who will buy it.

2 upvotes
BJN
By BJN (1 month ago)

Good luck indeed.

0 upvotes
ThomasSwitzerland
By ThomasSwitzerland (1 month ago)

The beauty of this Leica is that it is so useless in functionality. But the bright body got timeless style. It is not designed to make interesting pictures but to show off. Hence, it got its market.

If we had a stand-up comedian show, this camera could provide plenty of stories on how one might take pictures alternatively.

Leica delivers a big attention item. It differentiates the buyer from the rest of those “cheap” black plastic camera users. And you need the matching small dog or hand bag for this. So it stays in high ticket environments.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

It's far from useless, and I've shot with it.

3 upvotes
Tapper123
By Tapper123 (1 month ago)

I wouldn't want one either. I don't even think it even looks particularly good.

I get the appeal of Leica rangefinders -- at least they offer something unusual compared to most cameras and the design is truly classic. But this T... strictly a fashion statement camera IMO. Much better off with a nice Fuji or Sony mirrorless.

3 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

And the look of the box is the deciding factor?

0 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (1 month ago)

How is making it so reliant on touchscreen in any way bold? Sony NEX-5N did it years ago. Samsung Galaxy NX did it the most recently. Even the upcoming Lytro camera is going to do it. I think DPR were desperate to say something nice about Leica, but honestly this isn't bold. It's a design choice that many have tried, and eventually rolled back in favor of more physical controls which a VF necessitates for tactile feedback.

0 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (1 month ago)

It's bold for Leica.

10 upvotes
quezra
By quezra (1 month ago)

That still doesn't make sense as a reason to praise it, since all previous attempts have been severely criticized (and this seems no different), then with products out long enough to see a successor, always rolled back (note the extra dials and Fn button on the NEX-5R). Minimalism might win design awards but it doesn't make for a functional camera. There's a litterbin of failed attempts that will demonstrate that, firmware update or not.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

q:

This is significantly different than most other touch screens like that on the Samsung NX300. (I pick the Samsung because I'm more familiar with that than the Nex 5n.)

It is very bold step.

0 upvotes
peterwr
By peterwr (1 month ago)

As Barney says, it's bold <i>for Leica</i>. It also fits with Leica's design philosophy of longevity, inasmuch as it can be easily upgraded via firmware without either Leica or the customer having to replace the hardware. As it's basically just a (high-quality) shell with software and a lens on the front, Leica can go on banging these things out for years to come like they did their film cameras, without having to make major hardware revisions the way other manufacturers do, and yet frequently refresh and improve both new <i>and existing</i> cameras, possibly via paid-for upgrades.

Cost-effective from both Leica's and the customer's point of view.

Good move, I reckon.

1 upvote
peterwr
By peterwr (1 month ago)

OK, I give up. How *do* you do text formatting hereabouts?

1 upvote
quezra
By quezra (1 month ago)

Nope, I'm still not seeing how it's a "bold" move, even for Leica. It says to me Leica are increasingly targeting the ultra-rich rather than camera-philes. That's not bold, that's retreating from their core operations and moving into the high-margin world of jewellery and luxury where it is only craftsmanship that matters. Hasselblad have also gone down this route and become a laughingstock by rebranding Sony. It's not bold.

Touchscreen-only operations have been tried many, many times, and never resulted in photographer-friendly tools, only giving the familiarity to keep point-and-shoot upgraders happy. And touchscreens don't necessarily have any better longevity than physical controls - indeed they are all processor-constrained, as the start-up times would suggest. Just because now Leica's doing something doesn't change any of that. This is not a serious camera, it's a rich man's toy.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Johannes Zander
By Johannes Zander (1 month ago)

Another articel about this aluminium block.
I hoped the battery was already exhausted!

0 upvotes
nathondetroit
By nathondetroit (1 month ago)

Was that a pun? If so, bravo!

1 upvote
mb65
By mb65 (1 month ago)

I saw the Leica T but did not use it. I found it beautiful but very big, being equipped with a APSC sensor and not having an integrated EVF. You can check yourself with CameraSize. Strangely the lenses and EVF are black. They do not match the alu body at all. A black version of the T is on the way but I could find any info about alu lenses. This is weird given the price tag.
As far as criticism about the specs and performance, I understand it has issues. But Leica does not need to sell so many, and it may still turn out to be a success.
Bye now, Mattia

0 upvotes
eliehbk
By eliehbk (1 month ago)

I bought the Sony Rx1r and love it, but when I read your comments about this camera being overpriced I wonder if there are many cameras that aren't! I wonder if the 2800 dollars price tag on the Sony is justified! Choose the camera that makes you happy and go out and shoot. I have changed many many cameras over the years, and in the end they are all the same, we (photographers) make the difference! Happy shooting...

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
sixtiesphotographer
By sixtiesphotographer (1 month ago)

This camera seems to be a disaster from an ergonomic perspective: identical non-dedicated dials, controls buried in menus, non-intuitive or counter-intuitive operation.

I love my M3's and M6's, but those were created by a different (and much better) design team.

My Fuji X-Pro1 is a far better camera than this Leica T in all respects and is closer to what a "true Leica" should be in the digital era.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

It's easy enough to use.

I disagree with some choices, but that's different.

0 upvotes
km25
By km25 (1 month ago)

Yep! If only Leica would have made the X100 or the X-Pro 1. Leica can hold on to the Ms, but better choose a path toward the future.

0 upvotes
G1Houston
By G1Houston (1 month ago)

"In 'Touch AF' mode, when you're shooting in live view you press the screen and the AF point jumps to the location of your fingertip, and focus is acquired immediately at that point. Weirdly, half-pressing the shutter button does nothing at all, but if you've used a smartphone camera you'll be familiar with the behavioral logic of the Leica (and yes, it does seem strange writing those words…)."

I don't find this to be illogical. Since you are already using the screen to position the AF point, why do you need to "re-AF" by half pressing or go to the EVF? Why don't you just press the shutter all the way to take the picture and be done with it?

A fair criticism would be that the touch-AF concept did not go far enough in the T. For example, in many m4/3 cameras, you can touch and shoot at the same time. Indeed, with Panasonic cameras, you can touch to select the AF point and then shoot using the EVF. I consider this an *additional* feature that is nice to have.

1 upvote
BJN
By BJN (1 month ago)

Not just nice to have. It's a brilliant integration of the touch surface with the EVF.

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (1 month ago)

They should just take the guts of the Sony A7 and shoehorn it into a machined aluminium chassis. Put an m mount in front, and they will all be set.

1 upvote
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

I know some crew of dpreview thought that I am a troll while criticizing some cameras (ie a mirorless full-frame camera that just works well with a BIG tripod and big lens for landscape photography, and seems to be a fail for any other usage, reading the full review! lol).

I think the Leica T is not a camera. Being a camera is a side-effect. It's a luxury statement, the one I will take with me, with a Summicron or Noctilux (and M adapter ring), if I where wealthy, really wealthy.

The same way that wealthy people wear interesting watches, they might give time, but it's a side-effect.

PS: I owned 2 Leica compact camera, a D-Lux3 and now a Leica C (type 122), that are Panasonic cameras, conceived (lens+sensor) by Leica, the second one being Audi-designed. And I like them.

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
mcshan
By mcshan (1 month ago)

I am not "..wealthy, really wealthy" and have owned several Leica camera and lenses over the years. It is all about choices. I don't care about expensive watches.

I know there is a worldwide slow economy but I really do believe it is about choices. A friend of mine asked me why I buy so many cameras. This same friend smokes a carton of butts a day (what does that cost?) and he drops about $40 a night drinking beer most nights with a group of guys. He has season tickets to the New Eng Patriots (American football). I don't smoke, drink or take in many sporting events. I DO like shooting with various cameras. Had I not purchased a Leica X Vario and a Sony RX1R I might have considered the T if it is a good performer. I love the images I get from the most recent Sony and the X Vario.

Anyway I believe it is about choices rather than being wealthy.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

So, you'd clearly stating that the Leica T is not a good camera, at least for taking pictures?

So maybe it's a good camera to be seen with? As with a luxury watch? It's a choice if you could afford it!

0 upvotes
mcshan
By mcshan (1 month ago)

Hi iAPX, I didn't clearly or unclearly state that. By "if it IS (new emphasis by me) a good performer" I'm leaving it open ended. The camera is new and the jury is still out. I personally don't know if the camera is or isn't any good. Leica can still surprise. The X Vario has exceeded my expectations. If the T's IQ matches or exceeds the X Vario that would make it appealing but I really don't need another system camera as the Fuji XE1/various lenses is my most recent combo setup. The RX1R is simply amazing when a fixed lens will do.

I simply can't agree or even relate to your "to be seen with" thing. I wasn't trendy 60 years ago so why start now if that is what you mean.

Take care. Thanks for the reply.

2 upvotes
Deardorff
By Deardorff (1 month ago)

How does the touch screen work with gloves or mittens and 20 below zero temperatures?

1 upvote
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (1 month ago)

Honestly I haven't tried it (will do so though) but it's capacitative not pressure-sensitive. As such it'll likely work sometimes, with some very thin gloves. There are plenty of gloves on the market which are designed to work with touchscreen devices though.

1 upvote
peterwr
By peterwr (1 month ago)

On the subject of the touchscreen focusing not working with the EVF: presumably that could be fixed by having the position of one's finger (or, more likely, thumb) on the screen tracked by a marker in the EVF. Pressing the shutter would lock the focus on the current thumb position.

The point being that the issue is surely fixable in firmware, at any rate, even if not by that particular method.

1 upvote
realmadeira
By realmadeira (1 month ago)

brave review. I guess no more Leica's for you to review any more

0 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (1 month ago)

A firmware update could make this camera so much more effective and enjoyable to use. We're optimistic. The IQ is great though, and we'll have some studio work done pretty soon.

1 upvote
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

As a fashion photographer, I could tell that studio work is easy for a pro, I even did some with my D300 this years (switching to full frame cautiously), and even a compact camera could do great work that is good enough for a full page printing after a good RAW processing.

Using available light, or shooting with a bright sun, as I did for a friend weeding 10 days ago is another story: you need to be able to go 12800ISO or more on the party, while having an incredible dynamic for outdoor pictures on the early afternoon!

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Joachim Gerstl
By Joachim Gerstl (1 month ago)

You don't have to be mad to buy this instead of a Sony A6000 plus Zeiss Zoom or the Fuji X-T1 kit but it helps.

12 upvotes
Infared
By Infared (1 month ago)

I am not going to say anything about this camera (tee hee), except...Olympus or Panasonic REALLY could have taken a design cue on the Optional VF. REALLY!
No design went into theirs and I think made a little function-follows-form exception...it would have made for a much sweeter looking appendage. Now I am not saying that the Leica VF is all-that...but it shows what a little effort can result in. :-)

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Bhima78
By Bhima78 (1 month ago)

??? EPL-5, EP-5, and E-PM2 all take Olympus' VF-4 viewfinder. And its only $200 instead of $600 for the Leica one.

0 upvotes
Tonio Loewald
By Tonio Loewald (1 month ago)

If nothing else, Leica has schooled all the other camera companies on how to do a modern camera with good controls (aside from setting AF points, but then Apple and numerous camera app makes have nailed that). So at least we might see some others imitate them.

1 upvote
zapatista
By zapatista (1 month ago)

This must be a new definition of "schooled". I guess you could make the same case for the EOS M.

12 upvotes
AngryCorgi
By AngryCorgi (1 month ago)

Well, I for one hope nobody else thinks a 3-second startup time, laggy image review, nonsensical AF point selection behavior, and astronomical price points are traits worth imitating.

12 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

Maybe you are too angry!

the 4 to 5.5 second starttup is to learn the zend of photography, and waiting for the perfect moment to stay while the software wake-up.
The laggy image review is for film photographer in the great Leica tradition: you don't have to look at your pictures, until you go back home or in the darkroom.
The nonsensical AF point is because you dont have to select AF points, just let the "magical" Leica select it for you!

The price point is for you to learn how expensive it is to be a Leica Photographer, an opportunity for a talented photographer

end of sarcasm ;)

2 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (1 month ago)

Considering how good public education is these days, your term "schooled" is accurate.

C

0 upvotes
Tonio Loewald
By Tonio Loewald (1 month ago)

The camera is clearly overpriced, slow, etc., but it's nicely designed. The problems you all mention — price, lag, AF behavior — are all problems of execution. If this camera were reasonably priced and did what it does quickly and well it would be fantastic. Heck if it were just one or the other it would be fantastic.

0 upvotes
Stephen787
By Stephen787 (1 month ago)

took so long for battery to arrived? that is german efficiency today?

3 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (1 month ago)

Thats because all of the electronics are made in China. The only thing Made in Germany is the body. I bet the firmware was outsourced to India.

1 upvote
Stephen787
By Stephen787 (1 month ago)

not all, some are built in japan, taiwan or singapore. firmware from india? i do not think so. they only do microsoft windows.

0 upvotes
Will Taylor73
By Will Taylor73 (1 month ago)

God Leica are tedious! They bring out these hyped-up 2nd rate cameras and the mindless Leica fan-bois come out in droves to clap their hands and congratulate a dying company on it's paltry efforts to make itself relevant. Leica are simply irrelevant to modern photography. When I see someone with a digital Leica I know (from experience and making an effort to chat to these folks) that they are cashed-up pretenders who care far more about the credence the brand 'lends' their photography than just about anything else. Let Leica dye I say.

8 upvotes
Model Mike
By Model Mike (1 month ago)

"Let Leica dye I say". I'm sure they'll paint you a red dot if you ask them nicely!

6 upvotes
lawamainn
By lawamainn (1 month ago)

I agree with you to a certain extent, but Leica is NOT a "soon-to-be-extinct"-company, in fact, they can hardly cope with the demand, and have excellent economic figures....! And the technical/mecanical quality is excellent, of course.
When that is said, I was seeing through a Leica Facebook Group, and it was a sad experience, rubbish from the first to the last picture, with some exceptions of course. And it seemed that the members thought that adding "summilux bla bla", "distagon bla bla" etc with the caption should elevate the the quality of their "work"....

7 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

Will Taylor73:

Then you've not talked to a lot of Leica digital shooters.

And yeah, it costs serious money to get a M 240 and M lenses.

And of the 15 comments I see you've made since late 2013, at least 3 of them are complaining about Leica.

Try focusing on a serious and positive interest of your own; instead of simply attacking a respected, if pricey, camera/lens company.

Or if you've had a bad experience with a Leica digital camera, and/or lens, explain why. Perhaps some one here can tell you how to avoid those problems in the future.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
lawamainn
By lawamainn (1 month ago)

Ehh... I have 6 comments in total, and one comment regarding Lerica Cameras...
I do not question the quality of Leica at all! If it`s worth the pricetag? Well, not for me, but I can understand why many are. A friend of mine has a M9, and it`s fantastic piece of engineering! But do I want it? No, because it doesn`t fit my type of photography-

1 upvote
Will Taylor73
By Will Taylor73 (1 month ago)

I haven't talked to a lot - I'd say about 20. In the cycling world we have a saying "$10 legs and $10,000 bike" - that describes the average Leica owner perfectly. It's not that I'm complaining about Leica; I just despise them. Everything they've done in the last ten years is a joke (and an expensive one at that).

I'll keep posting about just how rubbish I think Leica are ...

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

Will Taylor73:

You can post whatever rubbish you want, as long as it's not more than 1000 characters.

But you can't take away from excellent Leica M lenses, or S lenses.

Good Leica lenses aren't akin to a $10,000 bicycle--more like a $30,000 bike. However one doesn't need incredible fitness to get a lot out of those lenses.

You're correct Leica is expensive, but far from a joke, unlike say Hasselblad of the last 10 years.

Don't you think your efforts would be treated more seriously if you were commenting on cameras and lenses you'd used in some fashion?

0 upvotes
Will Taylor73
By Will Taylor73 (1 month ago)

Sigma can produce a 50mm lens for $1000 that outperforms any Leica in that range ever(and Leica's lenses cost up to $5000). I could point out 1000 other examples of Leica's rubbishness.

For me it's more about what Leica represents. I simply don't care how good a single one of their lenses are - it's irrelevant. My contempt for Leica stems from the fact that they release moronic cameras and people think that's a good thing. The awesome thing is that Sony's E-mount will murder off Leica for good. Can't wait for that.

Good bye Leica ....

You've spent all your time replying to any post in this thread contra leica!! How sad. You can't fight fate - most folks hate Leica and think they are a joke.

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

Will Taylor73:

I'm sure the Sigma lens is very good, but we really don't know if it out performs the best Leica lenses, I've not used the 50mm "Art", so really can't say. You may have, but it reads like you've not used Leica lenses. And DXO lens scoring isn't real helpful in distinguishing extraordinary lenses from just good.

It took Sigma years to get to that level of optical performance. And Canikon just aint there yet.

Even with Zeiss lenses, those Sony FE mount cameras mostly have disappointing colour--put a Zeiss on a Nikon Df and you get spectacularly better colour.

So as it stands now, those Sony A bodies have trouble--future versions could be fixed. You're right that those are good options for mounting Leica M lenses, but it doesn't kill off the M lenses; could force Leica to release a $3000 M body though.

Most folks think Leica expensive, but don't hate Leica nor think Leica a joke. The S and the M bodies are far from moronic.

NB: Leica M lenses can cost up to $11,000.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
webrunner5
By webrunner5 (1 month ago)

I have owned Leica film cameras in the past, and they where like jewels. Expensive jewels but none the less really nice film cameras. Now they seem to me to have become like 3,000 dollar a night Hookers in Las Vegas. Like really pretty good but "really"

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

webrunner5:

You know this how?

0 upvotes
webrunner5
By webrunner5 (1 month ago)

Did you read Andy Westlake's review? I am 67 years old. I have had Leica cameras and HAD 3,000 dollar hookers that is how I know. Some people have been around the block a few times and can afford to do it. Sorry.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

webrunner5:

DPReview (Westlake) has not reviewed the Leica T. Some variation of this preview-shooting experience has been up for weeks.

I'll just have to trust your non-camera claim.

0 upvotes
luke through the lens
By luke through the lens (1 month ago)

I find far too many of the Leica Digital owners have no idea what they have REALLY brought . they truly think budget Leica digitals are "Hand Assembled " ?

what...in a Panasonic etc factory !!!!! They are far more aimed at those that want some form of "Bragging rights"
Real Fans of Leica use film bodies . They know leica have along long way to go in the digital world before they can take on the likes of Sony and Canon etc

7 upvotes
Benedetto Photo
By Benedetto Photo (2 months ago)

The construction quality of this camera is impressive. However, the image quality is about the same as my Ricoh GR, which costs thousands less.

0 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (1 month ago)

Are there a decent number of lenses available for the GR? ;)

4 upvotes
lawamainn
By lawamainn (1 month ago)

You can`t change, it comes with a fixed 18,3 mm F/2,8.

1 upvote
welbil
By welbil (1 month ago)

How about a magnesium-finished Ricoh GR with a polish?

If they called it a Ricoch and put a a German-made button on it (made in Augsberg, say), It could have similar kudos and cost less than 50% of the Leica, with a lens thrown-in. Bargain!

Lens choice? Become a real photographer; use your feet!

1 upvote
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (1 month ago)

How about metallic green hammertone with a wood grip? :)
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8916320108/ricoh-announces-limited-edition-gr-with-wood-grip-and-extra-accessories

2 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

Is there "a decent numberof lenses available" for the Leica T?

As far as we know it, just a basic f/3.5-5.6 zoom, the 23mm seems to be underparts. And Leica M + adapter ring for some of them, juste totally overpriced!

0 upvotes
Valokuvaustukku Foka
By Valokuvaustukku Foka (2 months ago)

Nice Leica T blog in Finland, http://leica-t.com/

1 upvote
MarcMedios
By MarcMedios (2 months ago)

This camera is so underwhelming. Really, for $2,000 you have so many better choices and especially when it comes to lenses. 3.5 to 5.6's are kit lens territory, not serious photography tools

5 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Have you used the 23mm f/2.0 lens?

I have, it's not optically staggering or anything but it's very good. And I can think of tricks to improve it.

For example it's a better lens than the SonyZeiss Nex 24mm f/1.8. It's probably not better than the best PanaLeica lenses for the m4/3s system though.

Of course kind of expensive.

0 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (2 months ago)

I would guess that it is less expensive in the long run.
A casting would require machining to clean up surfaces and bring them into closer tolerance to assure precision fit for the components to be installed subsequently. So why not just design the body to be machined from a solid billet to begin with?

0 upvotes
Vlad S
By Vlad S (2 months ago)

I wonder if there is any advantage to machining the shell out of a solid block instead of casting it? Is it just for bragging rights, or is there something else to it?

0 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (2 months ago)

I am a happy user of a Fuji XPro-1 and an Olympus OM-D as well as Leica M's.

Leica is a hand manufactured, assembled and tested camera. Therefore, as compared to other excellent Japanese cameras like Fuji or Olympus which are mass produced, the price is going to be greater.

While I can't speak for these new Leica T lenses, Leica lenses typically have a certain character in the way they draw images. It can be seen in the contrast, the color, sharpness and bokeh that is best seen rather than objectively described. Does it result in a better image? There is a subject for discussion or argument.
Do the images justify the price? To some, yes. To most consumers, probably not. But then Leica has never been for most consumers who run out an buy the latest version offered by the mass market.

Leica directs their products to a nitch market of professionals and hard core photographers who appreciate the quality build and long-lived ruggedness and who will continue to support their market.

1 upvote
Sannaborjeson
By Sannaborjeson (2 months ago)

But can a digital camera be really long-lived nowadays? To me there is a bit of confusion here. Leica builds their cameras like if they supposed to last tens of years.

This approach could work for mechanical cameras but it does not make sense for digital. In 5 years Leica T will be just a piece of nicely crafted but outdated consumer electronics. In 10 years you are unlikely to find a spare battery for it and it will turn into a nice bookshelf decor.

So to me it is a sort of gimmick, imitation: camera exterior tells you that it is built to last while on the inside it is just a digital camera. Don't we know that digital cameras are now for only a few years like computers and phones?

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting
7 upvotes
SergioNevermind
By SergioNevermind (2 months ago)

As you mention. Leica lenses: contrast, color, sharpness and bokeh. Not a doubt about it.

Products directed to the ones that can appreciate these wonders and can AFFORD them.

For me it´s ok somebody takes care of doing the best they can, not considering price compromises.

The APSC aproach seems to put leica on their way again, a way they have missed for too many past years.

Welcome back.

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

It's not Leica Lens, made in germany, it's lenses designed by Leica, made in Japan, and "magically" corrected by internal algorithme.s

So it's irrelevant to talk about the best german-made M lenses, when talking about algorithmitly-corrected japan-made T lenses :)

1 upvote
John Driggers
By John Driggers (1 month ago)

You're right, but don't tell Steve Huff. He'll block you, start a new post and then bash you.

0 upvotes
jkokich
By jkokich (2 months ago)

Do the pictures justify the price? No.

0 upvotes
Model Mike
By Model Mike (1 month ago)

Yes the sample shots are awful. Looks like the photog about 5 minutes to spare and sandwiches in both hands.

1 upvote
Petak
By Petak (2 months ago)

Other than the sensor (unfortunately) this is clearly an optical tuning of Samsung NX2000 withe a messed-up firmware :-)))))

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
masticina
By masticina (2 months ago)

Geesh I am in late.. mmm a leica APS-C sensor 16Mpixel ILC. I can't hate it.
Yes it is expensive but materials are better yes. Yes the lenses for it will be unbelievable out of reach but again they are well build. So .. yeah I can't nor desire to hate it.

But do I want it? Not really.. for that money I could buy an ILC with faster focussing. Or a GH4 with a nice F1.4 lens. I am definitely not the target for the leica.

Looks are nice but to me performance matters more.

Still it looks good and I think it will attract a certain crowd. That and its build quality will be quite nice to say the least. Now don't bind me unto it but it might last longer then some other ILC's.. part wise.

It simply is not my brand. But I see why some people love it. good for them :)

8 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

I have many japan-made lenses that are greats on my Nikons gears.

I just would have a confirmation that japan-lenses are " are well build" on he Leica tradition?

Please confirm it, it's interesting :)

0 upvotes
shutterbud
By shutterbud (3 months ago)

Well well well. Leica charge you a fortune for their "Optical Excellence" and it turns out to be smoke and mirrors. I was never likely to buy this camera but a tiny part of me wanted to be able to justify saving for it if the results were spectacular.
Now it looks like even more of a chuffing con.

4 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

What DNGs have you looked at?

1 upvote
Scottelly
By Scottelly (2 months ago)

Over $1,000 for a 23mm f2 lens, made by Leica, and you think it's going to suck? Do the S2 system lenses suck? NO. Please explain yourself, because I surely do not understand where you're coming from with such a comment.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Scottelly:

I'd posit the OP is looking at jpegs, and also believed DPR when DPR claimed no software correction for the lenses.

It's fun for some to say, even if inaccurately, "look how over rated the star is".

No, not every Leica lenses is excellent (see the PanaLeica LF1/C), but the DNGs I've seen from this T zoom look very good to me. Far better than Sony Nex kitzooms and better than Fuji and most Samsung kitzooms.

0 upvotes
shutterbud
By shutterbud (2 months ago)

I'm looking at the barell distortion and vignetting which are corrected in JPG. Not good enough for an eye-wateringly expensive lens.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

shutter:

Try looking at raws, and doing your own corrections.

Name a small zoom for an APSC mirrorless system that doesn't have barrel distortion?

Name a lens without vignetting when open wide? (There may be one or two, but they aint cheap--some Leica S lenses would be on the potential list of no vignetting.)

Also I see you're not commenting on the 23mm f/2.0. Note that as a pretty good general rule, distortion will be less with fixed focal length lenses than with zooms, no matter who designed the lens.

Comment edited 57 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Miron09
By Miron09 (2 months ago)

It seems to me that Leica n tries to sell mediocre and cheaply produced products under the reputation gained with the few exceptional lenses they produce once in a while.
I myself heavily rely on the old Panaleica 25mm and the Nocticron
https://picasaweb.google.com/110955796927925538104/MonastereOrthodoxeDeLaTresSainteEtDivineTriniteDompierrePentecost2014
I`d buy normal and short telephoto lenses from Leica only, nothing else, no wide angle, no Macro, none of their technically outdated and often shoddily produced cameras. I have met a lot of people over the years who had the most incredible problems with Leica cameras. No wonder as they are made by third parties, with only some intermittent work done in Leica factories in Portugal and Germany. Germany is not really a factory, just a very few people doing finishing jobs.

0 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

The 23mm seems to be underpart. See the reviews :)

This is the most sad part for me, because elsewhere I will have considered the Leica T with a wide-open 23mm, as my everyday gear (it's expensive but still if pictures are greats, I could live with that).

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (1 month ago)

iAPX:
I have yet to read reviews of the 23mm lens, but my experience was it is good not great.

0 upvotes
Just Ed
By Just Ed (3 months ago)

Think it looks quite ugly with that huge black EVF.

4 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Would you buy it, save for the EVF?

0 upvotes
Infared
By Infared (2 months ago)

...but it is one of the coolest looking add-on EVF's ever!
...but I will keep my EPL6 and EP5 with V-4's thanks. I have incredible lens selection, WAAAAAY faster glass (some of it Leica branded), and better performance all the way around....for less money. :-). I am sure that the image quality will be comparable as well!

1 upvote
Just Ed
By Just Ed (2 months ago)

No, but it is still ugly.

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Just Ed,

To clarify: The antecedent of "it" is the EVF, right?

0 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (3 months ago)

The lenses still look like designed by Panasonic...

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

And even if that were true, the PanaLeica lenses for the m4/3s system are optically excellent.

Have you examined the lens on the X-Vario? Do you think it designed by Panasonic, how about the X2?

0 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (3 months ago)

I own Pana Leica lenses for m43 and the newer ones are good. I'm not too happy about the 45/2.8 but it's one of the first ones. Anyway, the design looks misplaced on the T. I'm just complaining about the cheap plastic look at this price point.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

ageha:

It looks a lot like the X-Vario.

1 upvote
Klipsen
By Klipsen (2 months ago)

Looking at the shape and the layout of the controls, it bears a striking ressemblance to the NEX-7.

0 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (2 months ago)

Minus all the buttons. Not really...

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

ageha:

Sorry I thought--well actually know for certain--your original comment was about the look of the lenses. And indeed the small zoom looks like the X-Vario's zoom lens.

So "it looks like the X-Vario" makes sense as short for "it looks like the X-Vario's lens."

Klipsen:

Pay attention to the fact that the original comment was about the lenses for the T system.

And no, the T's body doesn't look particularly like the body of the Nex 7. It does look a bit like the body of the Samsung NX300--a point numerous comments have already made.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Klipsen
By Klipsen (2 months ago)

The twin thumb wheels the position of the built-in flash (of which the Samsung has none), the general shape of the grip.
Here's a direct comparison with a Sony Alpha 6000, which is the spitting image of the NEX-7:
http://www.techgoondu.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/P_20140429_163655.jpg

I haven't been able to find a similar picture with the NX-300, but I still don't think it looks more like the Leica T than the NEX-7 does. Quite the contrary.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Klipsen:

Where's the built-in EVF on the Leica T? The A6000 and Nex 7 both have one.

May want to check the general shape of the Leica's and Samsung's grips.

0 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (2 months ago)

Seriously, just because the Leica has two dials next to each other? The cameras don't look alike at all on that posted photo. Yeah sure, both look like cameras.

The Leica's body looks more like a copy of Samsung's NV series: http://www.fotopolis.pl/media/obrazki/NV10bisPrzod.jpg

0 upvotes
Klipsen
By Klipsen (2 months ago)

Even more seriously, if you can't see it, it's because you don't want to see it. The front face on the grips of those Samsungs' are angled, the front face on the grips of the NEX-7's and the Leica T's are parallel to the backs of the cameras

How you can begin to think that the Leica T looks even remotely like the Samsung NV series is beyond me.

0 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (2 months ago)

Wow, you remember the whole NV series? I don't apparently.

Anyway, both grips' front faces are parallel? I think I never saw another camera body with a feature like that before the NEX appeared. It simply can't be, it's as unique as the rectangular display or the round dials.

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Klipsen:

Here are some more images of the Samsung NV 10:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-NV10-Digital-Optical-Reduction/dp/B000GHXWS4

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-NV10-Digital-Optical-Reduction/product-reviews/B000GHXWS4/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

Famous German lens maker name attached too.

0 upvotes
Klipsen
By Klipsen (2 months ago)

To both of you: Which part of "bears a striking ressemblance" do you interpret to mean "looks identical"?

You mention cameras that have slant-sided grips, a single selector wheel and no built-in flash - and then say they look like the Leica T, but the NEX-7 doesn't ressemble it.

Get real, girls.

P.S.: It was ageha who brought "the whole NV series" into this debate, and chose one camera to illustrate it. I take it from your remark that the model in question was a poor choice, but it wasn't mine, so don't blame me for not knowing my NV series.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 12 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Klipsen:

Get real, the Nex 7 has an obvious built-in EVF, which neither the Leica T nor the Samsung NX 300.

It's not like either ageha or I are the first to comment on the Leica T resembling the Samsung NX300.

0 upvotes
ukuleleguy
By ukuleleguy (3 months ago)

I use Leicas and I was quite excited when I saw the announcement for this camera. Yes there are a lot of cameras out there with more features and lower cost. Some of those cameras are quite nice but they are just a step away from the parts drawer. I used to use Canon film cameras and I loved them . When I switched to digital I bought a Canon and it died, SO I bought another and it too died, SO I bought another and it died. Each time the repairs exceeded the price of the latest model. After a while I decided to swicth and I bought a Leica. I have been happy ever since. If you like buying a new camera every couple of years than buying a cheaper camera will fit the bill, likewise if you do not have the $ to spend and still want decent performance. A Leica is not for everyone. BUT if you like quality, want to keep your camera for a long time, want to take a lot of photos and get amazing customer service then a Leica may be for you. Leica provides the tools I prefer. I want a T!

3 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Interesting track record with Canons. Can you go into more detail? Which Canons, how long did you have them, and how hard were they used? Same with the Leica. You joined yesterday and this is your only post.

4 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

ukuleleguy:

But with digital cameras the technology in them is vastly improved over 4 years or so.

Yes, my 2001 Canon G2 still works and takes excellent still images at base ISO.

But then comes CMOS sensors with better high ISOs. and on sensor phase detect auto focus, really good electronic view finders. Not so important though: more mega pixels.

In years to come there will things like much greater bit depth.

And lenses have improved a good bit over the last 12 years.

1 upvote
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

If you are getting at that this T will be outclassed by other models within a few years... that is patently obvious since other APS cameras already outclass it. The idea of spending a lot on the T due to longevity is ok if you will be happy with this level of performance and features for that period of time.

I don't see anything about the T or any other Leica that would indicate it could last longer than other brands. Other than the Aluminum body of the T, Leica uses generic components that they source from other parties. In the case of the M8, the LCDs are no longer available, so if that fails the camera is toast. Leica has been giving M8 owners with failed screens some credit towards the purchase of new cameras.

M series digital cams have had numerous well documented issues... sensor lines, rangefinder and lens cam calibration, coffee stained LCDs, sensor cover glass cracking, neck strap lugs detaching, base plate body connection failures, etc. Lengthy repairs are not uncommon.

4 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Other bodies may out perform this T body. Not at all clear that other lenses are better.

Perhaps you were addressing ukuleleguy.

And I've never been particularly drawn to Leica digital bodies. Though if I had the money I'd buy an M240 in second.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Agreeing with you regarding digital improvements and disputing his claim that Leica bodies hold up so well.

Ukeleleguy has only made one post so I don't take him seriously.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
ukuleleguy
By ukuleleguy (3 months ago)

I didn't realize that I needed to justify my existence before posting anything or that my opinion did not count if I just joined; so nice of you to engage in interesting conversation.

Personally, I like quality products. I don't spend my days constantly purchasing the latest camera/gadget/lens of the day. I don't fault people for this, after all the consumption helps drive the technology. There will always be a better/faster/higher-resoultion camera out there. I want a high-quality camera and I want to focus on taking high-quality, well composed photos.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting
1 upvote
ukuleleguy
By ukuleleguy (3 months ago)

Oh and the dead Canons: S3 IS , SX20IS and Rebel XT. Keep in mind these had heavy use and I realize these are not high end cameras but still I was disappointed with the performance. Nothing like taking your camera out on hiking trip at the Grand Canyon and seeing the words "Lens Error"! My film cameras easily outlasted these ( I still 12 AE-1s, F1, and even a Pellix). I just really like high quality, compact cameras - cameras that I can take places I normally couldn't easily bring an SLR.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

u:

Bet the Canon 7D, or heavier 5D, would have endured better. And neither is real expensive in Leica terms.

There's always the well made Olympus EM1, some excellent lenses, good image quality through ISO 3200. Many more lens options than this Leica.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Sorry Ukeleleguy but I asked for more info. regarding your sweeping statements, and you never responded.

Yes those are very inexpensive Canon models and why would you write off the entire brand for those failures among p&s cameras and a low end DSLR? In contrast I have owned a 1Ds, 1DII, 5D, 5DII, 5DIII as well as 7 and 12 year old Canon p&s cameras and none has failed other than that I physically broke the USB connector on the 5D and 5DII and I dropped some lenses.

Canon CPS (pro service) will turn around repairs for me within a week door to door. And their repairs were very reasonably priced. I know that many Leica repairs have to be performed in Germany.

Keep in mind that Canon makes weather sealed pro bodies and lenses. Leica does not. There are some weather sealed and ruggedized mirrorless cameras.

In any case I think it will be a while before there is any history on how well the T holds up compared to other mirrorless models.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Careful, the S2 body and lenses are weather sealed. Though right, I'd trust a Canon 1DX more in serious rain/snow etc.

But to say Leica does not make weather sealed bodies is a mistake, but yes it's a $22,000 body.

0 upvotes
ukuleleguy
By ukuleleguy (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Please keep in mind I loved my Canon film cameras and keep in mind that none of the film cameras (and I still have them) are high end except the F1 which I purchased used. I also have a beautiful suite of lenses including the 1.2 55mm and the 35-105 w/macro switch. I loved them so much that I never purchased a lens that was not a genuine Canon lens. When I switched to digital I purchased a P&S and fell in love with bringing my camera to places I normally would not bring my SLR and a bag of lenses. I will admit that the P&S Canons took great shots but alas they died too quickly and it left me rather bitter. The only true Leica I have is the Vario and the others are Panasonic stable mates - but they have yet to leave me flat. When I sent the Canons in for repairs I didn't even bother to have them send them back after I got the estimate.

I can tell you are a Canon lover; so I apologize - I understand your for them. Thanks for the reply!

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

ukuleleguy:

But none of the Canon digital examples you've cited are particularly tough. Those Rebels are a joke for durability.

Whereas bodies like the 5DIII or even a P&S like the G16 are solidly made.

Right, the film F1 is tough--but that's a 40 year old design, from an era when many SLR bodies were designed to last 20 years, or more.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
ukuleleguy
By ukuleleguy (3 months ago)

HowaboutRAW:
Yes, you are correct. As I said I like P&S for the portability. The old Canons lasted forever, and perhaps I was too optimistic to expect longevity from cameras that are all electronic and somewhat inexpensive <$500. I am not in love with the Rebels -they feel kind of cheap but they are also cheap to buy and take nice photos. The 5DIII is a really nice camera but not a P&S either. I am not disappointed with my Leica (even the Panasonic stable mates). But again I like the portability and I like quality - maybe I'm too fussy, maybe I just fall in love with something and then I am sad when it dies.

Maybe I still believe in the romance of having a cool old camera that has taken loads of photos and never let me down.
A lot of you are probably pros and I'm not - and I may never be able to a candle to your photos - but I get out there and take lots of photos with the tools that I have - and enjoy taking photos for the pure love of doing it.

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

I certainly am not a Canon lover and never felt emotional about any gear. Just using those cameras as examples. My Olympus, Konica/Minolta, and Sony digital cameras never failed. My expensive Rollei 6006 film cameras broke a fair amount.

I feel most cameras made today should hold up fairly well. Pro models are especially durable compared to what was available in the film era. (Fast frame rates with more durable shutters and weather sealing.) Owners are more likely to be hard on a cheap p&s than on a camera such as the T.

Leica makes no electronics, sensors, shutters or EVF in their digital cameras. The M's rangefinder is certainly rather fragile and can be knocked out of alignment. And in the case of the T they don't make the lenses. Other than the design, the aluminum chassis, knobs, buttons, lens mount, and the firmware, they are assembling relatively generic parts.

Why they would necessarily be more durable than another brand is hard for me to see. Time will tell.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting
1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Leica doesn't make the shutters in Leica digital cameras?

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

ukuleleguy:

I can't speak to extensive testing of either, but I did point out the Canon G16 and Olympus EM1 as solidly made cameras. And the Olympus is on the small side and definitely weather sealed. The G16 is a P&S.

And the best Olympus lenses are near the optical quality of Leica lenses, whereas with Canon lenses it's not even close.

There are also the very solidly made and sealed Pentax K5 and K3, small, light, quiet for SLRs. Lenses not up to the best from Panasonic or Olympus for the so called m4/3s bodies.

1 upvote
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

"Leica doesn't make the shutters in Leica digital cameras?"

The M models use Copal shutters and I presume that is the source for the T. Many cameras use Copal shutters.

I don't know about the leaf shutters in the X cameras but Leica never made leaf shutters in the past and it would be pretty odd for them to design their own shutters for such small quantities when shutters are readily available from Copal and others. Likewise, it is kind of hard to see them design and produce shutters for the S in those even smaller quantities.

http://www.nidec-copal.com/02/02.html

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Okay I thought say Canon made shutters for Canon DSLRs.

Copal isn't real specific about whom they supply, but it sure seems possible.

0 upvotes
Vikas M Gore
By Vikas M Gore (2 months ago)

I bought a T and both with native lenses as well as the smaller of the M lenses this is a remarkably easy and good camera to use. The size also means I'll be carrying it with me a lot more than I carry a larger camera. Very happy with it.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Vikas M Gore:

Just to be clear on some things, there are several smaller M lenses.

Also I didn't know that the 23mm Leica T lens had started to ship?

Glad you like your T.

Did you purchase the EVF?

0 upvotes
Vikas M Gore
By Vikas M Gore (2 months ago)

I took the plunge an bought both lenses, the M adapter and the EVF. Everything was available here in SIngapore for those who ordered early (in my case May 25th!).

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (2 months ago)

Vikas:

Do you like the EVF?

0 upvotes
Vikas M Gore
By Vikas M Gore (2 months ago)

Yes. Very sharp and clear. It does not have a lot of space around the visible screen so with glasses it feels a bit of a tight fit but I can see everything.

0 upvotes
jkokich
By jkokich (2 months ago)

I've owned many cameras over forty years. None of them have died. What in Heaven's name do you do to them?

1 upvote
ukuleleguy
By ukuleleguy (2 months ago)

jkokich:
I use my cameras a lot but I take excellent care of them. They look like brand-new. I would like to qualify that by stating that while I take good care of the cameras the evironment may be the problem and perhaps not the cameras. I live near the ocean in new england and have had corrosion problems with other electronics in my home. Perhaps my problem has been more with the design. Or maybe it was just bad luck. I love my old Canons - they are great but in reality they are 99% mechanical (F1, AE-1, etc). I do want a new SLR and have actually considering a Nikon 610. As for the Leicas - I like them as they are excellent P&S cameras.

0 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (3 months ago)

The Way To Get Exclusive In Photography
How to do it lesson

I highly doubt that too many 'young professionals' would bet on this thingie when there are so many much better alternatives on offer, for much lower price - and for higher price too, if that's needed.

You young professionals,

Just get a Hasselblad Lunar with elephant foreskin coverings. That's what it's all about, exclusivety in photography. And you'll be the king of the hill.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

The draw of this is the lenses. There aren't really lenses to draw anyone to the Sony Nex APSC system.

1 upvote
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (3 months ago)

You mean this beautiful LEICA LENS: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/leica-t-typ701/samples/corrections/18mm-rt-001.jpg

1 upvote
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (3 months ago)

Raw, wasn't it so that canikon makes lenses with a really poor "color subtlety"? Will you tell us that truth once more :)

:rJ

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Rage:

Why are you linking jpegs shot with this lens?

I already have DNG examples, they look excellent. No, they’re not up to the optics of a Noctilux.

I want to see more raws, but yeah they sure look to do colour subtly better than most lenses. Also you’re ignoring the fact that the samples available were shot with a small zoom. So not all of the lenses for this system.

The Leica X-Vario also does excellent image quality.

Fringing (which does exist with this Leica zoom) is not the only standard of high optical quality.

0 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (3 months ago)

This beautiful LEICA LENS: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/leica-t-typ701/samples/corrections/18mm-rt-001.jpg

That was how the lens behaved without the secretive software correction leica used to make it look little more decent. It's not my fault.

1 upvote
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

Underpart optics at that price! It's pornographic and you should not be able to offer it to view to people under 18 or 21 (depending on the region!).

1 upvote
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

All of those photos are of static objects and could have been made with any camera. How fast and responsive is the camera compared with the Sony A6000? Well according to David Pogue's comparison it is way slower in all kinds of ways. It also misses focus and exposure enough to disappoint him. If true, why is this kind of comparison between what you can get for $800 with what you get in the T for $4200 not clearly explained in this review?

My understanding is the T has no way to turn off the image review, thus forcing a delay between shots and the likelihood of losing track of action or missing expressions. This is completely opposite what Leica touts as an advantage of the M's optical viewfinder that never blacks out.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Some A6000 features not on T

1. Image stabilization on some lenses.
2. Sensor cleaner
3. Built in EVF
4. Focus peaking
5. Magnified focus anywhere in the frame
6. AE lock button
7. Tilting LCD
8. Ability to use external flash and EVF simultaneously
9. Electronic level
10. 11 fps
11. Electronic first curtain shutter
12. More compact IS kit lens that is wider with powered zoom
13. wired remote cord.
14. HDMI out.
15. Sweep panorama feature
16. PDAF on sensor - faster focus and focus tracking.
17. AF illuminator
18. Anti Motion Blur : 6-image layering
19. Better video modes.
20. Smaller and lighter with kit lens and EVF.
21. Smile shutter release.
22. Many more lenses available at this time including from third parties, even some AF adapters for other brands... E.g. Canon Speedbooster.
23. Alpha lens adapter with SLT PDAF system for faster focusing.
24. Wifi peer to peer connection with IOS and Android.
25. 8 million more pixels - newest Sony APS sensor. (Better at high ISO too?)

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Correction - electronic level is in Nex 6 but not in A6000. Most of these listed features are also in the Nex 6. (16MP not 24)

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Awful kit lens with the A6000.

Lots of other not great lenses for the Sony APSC mirrorless system.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Some people sure are carried away with wanting the "best" lens. Why not just buy an A7r or use a FF DSLR or M on a tripod if top image quality is so important. These cameras are about convenience and fast generally less precise handheld shooting for me.

I have the 16-50 on a Nex 6 and there is nothing awful about it for what it is meant to be - very compact and inexpensive. The only reason I bought a Nex 6 is because this lens makes the camera compact enough for me. There are trade-offs in all choices and the T is too large and too expensive for my needs for a small camera to supplement my pro gear. So maybe this is the "best' lens for me.

Not everybody cares if some grass in the corner of a frame is missing a tiny bit of detail. Maybe I am unusual but the corners of the frame is not usually where the primary subject is in my shots.

I will not risk a $4200 camera in some of the activities where I regularly carry the Nex 6... rock climbing, skiing, mountain biking.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting
1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Alan:

The Nex 6 is a fine camera for lower ISO work unfortunately Nex apsc lenses are not with the exception of the 24mm SonyZeiss.

If decent colour, general vivacity and basic sharpness aren't important to you then Nex lenses will do in a pinch.

The A7 has some good lenses, it's neither small nor quiet. The loud shutter is a huge drawback to the A7.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Your generalizations above do not resonate with what I actually know.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Sorry then you don't particularly care about decent lenses.

And the fact that the A7 is loud like a Nikon D3s is well remarked up.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

No need to put me down. I know the sound of the A7 and it certainly would not affect anything I would do with it. I don't own one. Who said an A7 is the only choice other than a T? So use an M or a 5DIII on quiet mode if the A7 is too loud, or some other camera like the A6000. I used a Hassy for years and its noise was never an issue.

As for lenses, if a lens is too large it may be no good to me for my intended purpose. I chose the Nex 6 and 16-50 to replace a small sensor compact not a DSLR. A lens only has to be as good optically as the use I will put it to. My architectural photography has different standards than what I do with the Nex.

I simply can't see spending $4200 for the little bit of potential image improvement that the T might give under some circumstances over my $150 lens. The features on an A6000 may give sharper images under some circumstances than the T will produce. So picking between the T and the A6000, I am certain the A6000 would be more useful to me.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

The problem with the Canon 5DIII, the optical quality of Canikon lenses just isn't very good. So that leaves the new 50mm Sigma Art or various Zeiss manual focus lenses. Same problem with the even quieter Nikon Df.

The A7 is very loud, and can't be used in many situations because of that.

$2000 Leica lenses generally offer significant optical improvement over any $150 lens. You'd need the 24mm Zeiss from Sony to get anything like this level of optical performance. (No, most of the Zeiss Touits aren't great.)

The Samsung NX lenses are a good bit better than the Sony Nex apsc lenses. But Samsung bodies have slow buffers--they're a lot quieter than Sony Nex bodies though.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Have you ever used Canon's 17 TSE or 24 TSE lenses? Some architectural photographers are using these on the A7r. Are A7s banned somewhere because they are too loud?

As I mentioned, expensive Leica lenses would be wasted on applications where I use an APS camera. And I suspect many Leica lenses and Canon lenses and Sony lenses and Nikon lenses are also wasted on how they are typically used by many.

The diminishing return concept seems to be lost in some enthusiasts' enthusiasm for chasing the holy grail of imaging quality... in this case with a camera that has a relatively small sensor that is lower res than the one in the A6000.

When I was in college, one instructor considered 35mm "miniature photography" and only let us use 4x5 and larger. Splitting hairs between the quality of various APS lenses is not significant in most ways photos with these cameras are taken or displayed.

But some people just really really want to own the best. That's ok too.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 15 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

I take it those are shift lenses from Canon, no I've not used them.

I had an OM shift lens for an OM4--didn't tilt.

I'd buy a Schneider shift/tilt lens if I needed/wanted to do that kind of architectural shooting.

I don't think good lenses are lost on people and the better lenses really show with APSC sensors of more than 10MP.

Do people not always shoot up to their equipment? Sure.

I don't know every function of PhotoShop. Nor SolidWorks, and CAD software is something I'm a lot more serious about that photo editing.

How many people who own a Ferrari F458 really have a clue about how to drive one, or even drive a BMW M3?

Yes, I would assume that the A7s are banned on film/TV sets or in small venue theatres-concert halls.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

So Canon lenses are no good but in reality you don't know anything about the lenses I mentioned which are big contributors in making it possible for numerous architectural shooters to work using the 35mm format.

Why would Schneider lenses just have to be better? Please show me where I can buy a 17mm or 24mm Schneider tilt shift lens.

And the fact that people buy fast cars and don't get the most out of them parallels what I said that people will chase high end lenses even if they may not typically get the most out of them either. Is that a wise thing for people to do?

Cars are bought for all kinds of emotional and status reasons. It is hard for me to see why there would be much emotion associated with owning a lens.

Assuming is not knowing. I assume if the A7r requires a blimp, so will numerous other cameras. I don't see the connection to the T. The T is not capable of doing all that the A7r can do... starting with getting the most out of those TSE lenses I mentioned.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Optically no, Canon and Nikon lenses are nothing special.

Because Schneider is a respected German lens manufacturer, almost akin to Leica and Zeiss.

Don't act like Canon tilt/shift lenses are the only lenses of that variety on the market for 35mm SLRs, it makes you look like you don't know much about camera gear.

Sony shoots itself in the foot by compressing the raws of the A7 cameras.

In addition to the A7 requiring a blimp so too the Nikon D4. (The A7 is probably louder than the D4) It's not like I ever claimed the A7 is the only loud body.

Okay I guess Canon makes wider tilt/shift lenses than Schneider.

I see that Samyang makes an 24mm tilt shift lens, given the excellent optical quality of other Samyangs, I'd likely try that before the Canon. A lot cheaper too.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Well your knowledge of and experience with lenses is just astounding. I guess there is nothing I could possibly say at this point. Buy German.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

No it's avoid Canikon if you care about really good optical performance.

Samyang is Korean as is Samsung.

Olympus is Japanese, as is Sigma.

Yes, I more than suspect that German manufactures, amongst others, know some things about color that Canikon doesn't.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

You suspect, you assume. Canon and Nikon lenses are to be avoided... do you expect to be taken seriously?

FWIW I have owned at least 50 Zeiss, Leica, Schneider and Rodenstock lenses. The Canon 17 & 24 TSE lenses are the best corrected w/a lenses I have ever used. I don't see any German company making a 24-70 2.8 zoom that is better than Canon's either. And only Canon makes a 17mm TSE, so maybe they know something others don't. These T lenses are made by a Japanese company and you can stick M lenses on a Fuji or Sony just as easily as using them on a T. So where is the relevance to your Canon and Nikon lens bashing?

In any case, this is just pointless since all kinds of cameras can take great photos and the evidence for that has been in existence for decades.

Comment edited 5 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

No, I don’t simply suspect and assume that Canikon can’t keep up optically. I’ve tried plenty of Nikon lenses (less Canon I’ll admit) and they’re no where near either the good Leica or Zeiss lenses I’ve owned or rented. (Now, not every Leica or Zeiss lens is excellent, but many are.)

Don’t put words into my mouth. It makes you look really foolish.

Your defense of the lenses on the Sony Nex system didn’t strengthen your case.

Your implication that somehow the loud shutter isn’t a broadly a problem also didn’t help your case.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

That's the awfully loud shutter on the A7 I'm referring to.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

OK, in this long digression you have established you think the shutter of the A7 is too loud and have a bias towards German lenses. Plenty of people are happy with numerous cameras that have loud shutters and countless great photos have been made with Canon and Nikon glass. Is there something that connects this to the subject and why do you keep repeating the same things?

Are you planning to buy a T because it has a more quiet shutter and are you planning to adapt German lenses to it, or are you just blowing a lot of smoke here?

I doubt if many are reading these posts but if so, who is planning to buy a T?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

Better image quality results are the draw of better lenses.

A repeat since you ignored this point: Samsung (really Optron) and Samyang/Rokinon are both Korean, both (all) make excellent lenses, and the best Optron lenses are the optical equals of very good Zeiss and Leica lenses–perhaps not the equal of the Leica Noctilux.

Panasonic and Olympus both make optically excellent lenses, and on a good day Olympus comes real close to Leica and Zeiss–same is true for Sigma. Those are Japanese lens makers.

Yes, the Germans, amongst others, likely know something more about light than Canikon, SonyMinolta.

The the metal shutter on the German made Leica M8 was way too loud, unlike the Konica HexarRF.

"Who is planning to buy a T?" Likely those drawn to much higher optical performance, that's much better colour and light in photos.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

I always wanted much better light in my photos. Everything you wrote above sounds like you just want to crazily argue about lenses. I hope you find someone.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Alan:

But if you want better light in the image, not better lighting in the environment at shooting time, you'll use better lenses, like those Leica produces. (Or Zeiss, or Samsung or Olympus and even Fuji or Panasonic.)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (1 month ago)

Clearly, the Sony a6000 with a M ring-lens adaptor is a great choice for photographer.

This is a great camera, with an awesome sensor, and with the best M-lenses, it's a wise choice to do street photography

0 upvotes
Skipper494
By Skipper494 (3 months ago)

Most of these shots are not even sharp (see the single flower) and have considerable purple fringing. Certainly not up to the standard of DP's own samples with the Fuji S2 Pro, so many years ago.

3 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Okay, but you're commenting on jpegs.

There be raws for download at PhotographyBlog.com--albeit not enough raws. I believe DPNow has some more raws.

Also there's more than one lens for this system and so far we've only seem shots done with the small zoom.

Fringing (or lack thereof) isn't the only way to judge lens optical quality.

1 upvote
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

The typical users of this camera will be buying it for the simplicity of operation and probably will only be shooting jpegs. The people wanting to get the most out of a camera via raw conversions and fine tuning, are likely to look elsewhere for a more capable camera... with some loyal Leica fans as exceptions.

How many keepers there are when the camera is used in fully automatic mode producing jpegs is the most important way to compare it with the competition. Otherwise, you may as well compare it with a Sony A7r and 24-70 which is $700 less expensive than the T, zoom and EVF. You can almost buy an RX100III for the difference in price and really be set.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (3 months ago)

Completely different cameras for different audiences. I have a NEX6 and the 6000 is very similar...I guarantee the T is nothing like a Sony. ;)
The firmware hasn't been finalized yet so I'm sure you'll be able to turn off image review. Image quality is certainly not lacking, I've viewed some DNGs that are promising indeed and thought the 100% crops in this review indicated that the T is more than capable:
http://www.reddotforum.com/content.php/343-Leica-T-%28Typ-701%29-Review

People's real problem is with the price. For what it is, I think the price isn't bad.

2 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (3 months ago)

Disregard the above, was replying to a different post. :D

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

No many users of this camera will shoot raw. Goes with the draw of the lenses, in fact any system offering decent lenses like the m4/3 or APSC Samsung and Fuji bodies draws raw shooters.

There's no problem drawing conclusions about the jpegs, but only the jpegs. From jpegs alone: You can't draw conclusions about the sensor and lens, if the camera shoots raw.

The shutter on the A7 is very very loud.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 12 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Features on the A6000 are lacking on the T in the "Less is More" hype. So the T is targeting less experienced users and sometimes those missing features will lead to lower quality images. (No IS, slower less accurate AF, etc.) If the concept is "minimalism" then requiring a user to have raw conversion skills is at conflict with that.

Also, how does wifi connectivity (and a poor version of that at this point) to a cell phone fit in with the concept of "minimalism?" Jpegs, not raws will be transmitted.

You can't have it both ways and say that a camera that has few direct controls and is meant to be simple in use requires one to have good skills in post.

I shoot raws with my Nex6, use DXO and am very pleased by the results. I have been taking photos for about 50 years. How will I benefit by using a T instead?

In reading David Pogue's comparison, I can't see how anyone would choose the T over the A6000 for any application. (I figure M lenses should even work better on the A6000.)

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 12 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Alan:

The only benefit would be the optical quality of the lenses.

You'll not find me saying the body must be the greatest thing since...

Right you can mount M lenses on all sorts of mirrorless bodies.

Pogue is a reasonably smart person, but because of my out of focus example above, I'd not pay too much attention to his comments on using a beta version of the Leica T. I believe he was reviewing the Fuji X100 at the NYTimes when he posted all those out of focus samples.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

Since there are only 2 lenses for the T, the optical quality is pretty irrelevant if the lenses don't do what you need. As I said, the 18-56 and clip on EVF makes the camera unacceptably bulky for me.

So are you buying the T or waiting to see if they fix these things? I am certain the T would be a few steps down for me and my needs.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

Alan:

If an external EVF doesn't work for your needs by all means don't buy the camera.

Right now, I don't have the money to buy the T, it's not a body that attracts me anyhow.

I'd be more inclined to purchase a M240.

1 upvote
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

"Right now, I don't have the money to buy the T, it's not a body that attracts me anyhow."

And that is from a staunch proponent. I hope Leica finds a niche for this.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

AlanG:

But the lenses attract. And I want to see more raws from both lenses.

I'm far from a staunch proponent of Leica bodies. Though I do like the M240. And I look forward to seeing a future S3 body.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

OK so the lenses will sell the camera for those who think these are great lenses that will somehow make a difference for their work. Or there is some kind of pride of ownership going on.

There is nothing wrong with any of this but I have been around long enough to know that this will system not make a significant difference in the work produced by most photographers. There are many excellent cameras and lenses being used already.

A T with 2 lenses and EVF costs $5200 more than an A6000 with kit lens. So that $5200 could buy quite a few lenses for the Sony. That might make a lot more difference in what the user can do with the camera. The fact that some of those lenses have OSS will also contribute to greater usability.

Again just my opinion. I am sure there are good arguments for the T but I just haven't heard any that convinced me that very many would agree and rush out and buy the T system. I assume that Leica will do ok without all that many T buyers anyway.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

With the limited lens selection, likely not enough physical buttons, and only contrast detect AF, the T system is not what I'd rush out and buy either.

But who buys the first variation of X line? Here I really like my Samsung NX100, which is nearly first in that system. And that excellent 30mm f/2.0 lens was very early in that system.

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (3 months ago)

There are DNGs for download and a full review over at Photographyblog.

All of the sample DNGs appear to have been shot with the zoom. Not enough high ISO DNGs--and zero high ISO DNGs shot outdoors.

But the examples give some idea of what the zoom and this sensor/body can do.

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting
1 upvote
AlanG
By AlanG (3 months ago)

The review by Mark Goldstein that you pointed us to at the Photographyblog didn't like the camera any more than Pogue did.

"Compared to its main mirrorless camera rivals, the Leica T doesn't offer enough features, performance or usability, even if you can afford to ignore the higher price-tag that it commands."

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/leica_t_review/conclusion/

Kind of odd to see that they say "Recommend" and give it 4 stars after reading the conclusion.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
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