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Now you 'C' it: the Leica C enthusiast compact with built-in EVF

By dpreview staff on Sep 9, 2013 at 14:03 GMT

Leica has announced an enthusiast compact with a 12MP 1/1.7" MOS sensor, 28-200mm equivalent F2.0-5.9 zoom, and built-in 200k dot EVF, which it's calling simply the Leica C (Typ 112). If the specs look familiar, that's because this is essentially Leica's reworking of the Panasonic DMC-LF1.  It offers such goodies as Full HD movie recording, optical image stabilisation, built-in Wi-Fi and NFC, and RAW format recording. It'll be available in October with a choice of two rather fetching finishes, 'Dark Red' and 'Light Gold'. 

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Press Release:

LEICA CAMERA ANNOUNCES “LEICA C”

A new line of Leica digital compact cameras that pairs elegance and style with high performance digital technology 

Solms, Germany, 8 September 2013: Leica Camera is proud to present the Leica C, the first model of a new line of Leica digital compact cameras that every stylish, fashion-forward consumer will want to own. A first in Leica’s impressive history of compact cameras, the Leica C camera offers Wi- Fi  and  Near Field Communication (NFC) which not only allows for remote access of images and videos from a smartphone or tablet but enables the user to view images and watch videos being captured by the Leica C in real-time from their smartphones.  Its technical features are  impressive, but the sultry beauty of the Leica C is in its slim, sophisticated form. The elegant body of the camera is the work of Audi Design, who were also commissioned to develop the unique range of camera accessories for the Leica C. The Leica C is available in two stunning finishes—champagne and bordeaux—and is complemented by a range of accessories in premium materials that highlight the distinctive, eye-catching looks of the new Leica compact camera line.

The perfect complement to the Leica C’s well-designed and stylish look, Leica is offering a range of specially designed, perfectly finished, premium matching accessories. The range currently features five different options of fashionable bags and cases: the Leica C-Clutch, Leica C-Twist, Leica C-Snap, Leica C-Pouch, and Leica C-Case. The Leica C-Clutch is a luxurious clutch handbag with a carrying strap. In light gold or dark red Alcantara with a sandblasted metal closer, it offers two separate compartments with ample space for the camera and other personal belongings. Also in Alcantara and offered in both colors, the Leica C-Twist wrap-around case is attached to the tripod thread on the base of the camera and then simply wrapped around the Leica C and elegantly closed with a magnetic clasp.

The Leica C-Snap is comprised of hard plastic and elastic silicone that provides optimum protection against scratches and inadvertent knocks. The Leica C-Pouch is a polished pouch with a fascinating wrap-around design in black lambskin nappa leather. The Leica C-Case, an elegant case in black leather with lighter contrast stitching, also offers excellent protection for the Leica C. Thanks to its magnetic clasp, the case can be opened and closed quickly and ensures that the camera is always ready for action within seconds. This case is supplied complete with a matching carrying strap in black leather with lighter contrast stitching. The C-Hand Straps in soft and supple Alcantara in a choice of light gold or dark red complement the collection of premium accessories for the Leica C and guarantee optimum carrying comfort.

The Leica C is the first Leica camera to feature an integrated Wi-Fi and NFC (Near Field Connection) module. This allows the wireless transfer of images and videos to smartphones and tablets  via a WiFi connection. To use this feature, all users have to do is download the Leica C Image Shuttle app and install it on their iOS or Android device. The photographer can then connect to a WiFi network and the image transfer can begin. Another highlight of this technology is that WiFi in combination with the app enables remote control of the Leica C from a smartphone or tablet—particularly practical for remote-release photography and shooting with the self-timer. The practical application of Wi-Fi and NFC technology goes beyond the instant transferring of files from the camera to a smartphone or tablet; users are granted the ability to watch images and videos simultaneously on a smartphone, share images instantaneously with a client, review important moments as they happen, upload images and video instantly onto social media, and even monitor different rooms in their homes i.e. where children might be sleeping, playing or (not) doing their homework.

The Leica C guarantees images that are particularly rich in detail and is extremely versatile and ideal for every kind of photography—from portraits to wide-coverage shots and capturing the beauty of landscapes. Featuring a high-performance zoom lens, with a range equivalent to 28 to 200 mm in 35 mm format, and an extraordinarily large sensor for its class with a resolution of 12.1 megapixels, the Leica C delivers outstanding image quality, even in unfavorable lighting conditions. Even more creative freedom is provided by a freely programmable ring on its lens. The combination of high-precision optics and a large sensor guarantees outstanding imaging performance and pin-sharp pictures with brilliant, natural colors, clarity and contrast. Thanks to its remarkably fast autofocus and a continuous-shooting mode with up to ten frames per second, the Leica C captures even the tiniest of details.  It also offers a wide range of camera functions, various settings, in-camera processing options and an intuitively simple handling concept for flexible and spontaneous photography. This, plus its particularly stylish and elegant compact design, makes the Leica C an ideal companion for all occasions where photos are paramount. 

The camera’s full-HD video function allows for even more creative opportunities. The 3" camera monitor offers photographers complete control during exposure and recording. The camera’s integrated viewfinder is an additional aid to composition and assessment of scenes in brightly lit situations. Videos and still pictures alike can be creatively processed either in the camera or with the Adobe® Photoshop® Lightroom® professional imaging software supplied with the camera.

The Leica C and most accessories will be available from  Leica dealers starting in October 2013. The Leica C-Pouch and C-Snap accessories will be available from December.

Leica C (Typ 112) specifications

Body type
Body typeCompact
Sensor
Max resolution4000 x 3000
Image ratio w:h1:1, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9
Effective pixels12 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors13 megapixels
Sensor size1/1.7" (7.44 x 5.58 mm)
Sensor typeCMOS
Image
ISOAuto, 80, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, (12800 with boost)
White balance presets4
Custom white balanceYes
Image stabilizationOptical
Uncompressed formatRAW
File format
  • JPEG (DCF/Exif2.3)
  • RAW
  • MPO
Optics & Focus
Focal length (equiv.)28–200 mm
Optical zoom7.1×
Maximum apertureF2.0 - F5.9
Autofocus
  • Contrast Detect (sensor)
  • Multi-area
  • Tracking
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Face Detection
  • Live View
Autofocus assist lampYes
Digital zoomYes (Max 4x)
Manual focusYes
Normal focus range50 cm (19.69)
Macro focus range3 cm (1.18)
Screen / viewfinder
Articulated LCDFixed
Screen size3
Screen dots920,000
Touch screenNo
Screen typeTFT Color LCD
Live viewYes
Viewfinder typeElectronic
Viewfinder resolution200,000
Photography features
Minimum shutter speed60 sec
Maximum shutter speed1/4000 sec
Exposure modes
  • Program
  • Aperture Priority
  • Shutter Priority
  • Manual
Built-in flashYes
Flash range7.00 m
Flash modesAuto, On, Off, Red-Eye, Slow Sync
Continuous drive10 fps
Self-timerYes (2 or 10 sec)
Metering modes
  • Multi
  • Center-weighted
  • Spot
Exposure compensation±2 (at 1/3 EV steps)
AE Bracketing±1 (3 frames at 1/3 EV, 1 EV steps)
WB BracketingNo
Videography features
Resolutions1920 x 1080 (60, 50, 30, 25 fps), 1280 x 720p (60, 50, 30, 25 fps), 640 x 480 (30, 25 fps)
FormatMPEG-4, AVCHD
Videography notes1920 x 1080 (60i FHD: 17Mbps, Sensor Output is 60fps; 30fps FHD: 20Mbps / MP4, Sensor Output is 30fps)
MicrophoneStereo
SpeakerMono
Storage
Storage typesSD/SDHC/SDXC, Internal
Storage included87 MB Internal
Connectivity
USB USB 2.0 (480 Mbit/sec)
HDMIYes (mini HDMI)
WirelessBuilt-In
Wireless notesWith NFC capabilities
Remote controlNo
Physical
Environmentally sealedNo
BatteryBattery Pack
Battery Life (CIPA)250
Weight (inc. batteries)195 g (0.43 lb / 6.88 oz)
Dimensions103 x 63 x 28 mm (4.06 x 2.48 x 1.1)
Other features
Timelapse recordingNo
GPSNone

Additional images

Accessories

C-Twist, dark red S-Snap, light gold
C-Clutch, light gold C-Clutch, dark red
C-Case C-Pouch

Comments

Total comments: 244
12
Flatfour356
By Flatfour356 (3 months ago)

Too many of these comments are not to do with photography. I would be surprised if many of the contributors take really worthwhile photos. Just take a prewar Leica and take good picture with that camera, as one can, then you can criticise the latest equipment. A Leica C is just a camera to a photographer. If it is anything else you are not a true photographer..

0 upvotes
panpen
By panpen (6 months ago)

Well, reading through all the posts I see lots of poor people that can barely afford a panasonic. Sad

0 upvotes
panpen
By panpen (6 months ago)

This is a camera for people that can afford to buy a Leica. Poor people can stick with a much cheaper Panasonic.
People that buy a Leica can afford to buy a Porche. For everybody else there is Hunday. Cheers

0 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (7 months ago)

Only a $200 surcharge up from the Panasonic version isn't bad considering it comes with Lightroom 5. The body looks much better than the LF1 as well. Looking for a replacement for my LX5 pocket cam...this could be it.

3 upvotes
Timmbits
By Timmbits (7 months ago)

"only a $200 surcharge"? these software programs cost about $10 a license, because the software company gets revenues from software maintenance, support, upgrades.

granted, it looks really nice... but paying a 50% premium for a Leica label on a Panasonic just sends out a message that superior quality isn't the reason for their high prices, but rather they're not an efficient organization... and this probably transposes to the value equation of the rest of their line too... extending to higher end products.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (7 months ago)

If you can get Lightroom 5 for ten bucks that's wonderful but it costs most of us about a hundred fifty. ;)
The remaining fifty bucks is less than the price of a meal in a nice restaurant and for that you get the Audi remodel and the Leica warranty.

I agree a lot of their Panny rebrands are way out of line but I honestly don't think this one is.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
4 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (7 months ago)

FWIW, I *do* have a couple full-frame shooters. This wouldn't be my only camera by any means, I'm just thinking this is a compelling upgrade (for me) from my little almost-pocketable LX5...especially seeing that my wife needs a copy of Lightroom at this point. ;)

2 upvotes
panpen
By panpen (6 months ago)

$10 for Lightroom? Cool. Can I give you $20 for your copy? Then you can go and buy two, one to resell and one free for you.
I can send Paypal right away
Please email me at
$10Lightroom@yahoo.com

Thank you, thank you so much

0 upvotes
johnparas11zenfoliodotcom
By johnparas11zenfoliodotcom (7 months ago)

The dark red upper plate/trim/lens ring.. I just wish it was just silver or black as well..

0 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (7 months ago)

Everyone who has commented here is pretty much a Leica hater. My question is if you hate Leicas so much and you would never buy a rebranded Panasonic Leica then why bother arguing about it?

My guess is as soon as you saw the headline you KNEW your were going to hate it, so why not just skip over it?

It doesn't matter WHAT Leica puts out about 98% of the active members on DPR fly into a mouth-foaming rage over the price.

You know what's really funny about this? If you go to the Leica camera forums this camera and others like it barely get a mention. Real Leica photographers don't care enough about these types of cameras to bother getting mad about it.

So here you have a bunch of people who don't own any Leica gear and have no intention on buying Leica gear arguing over a camera that most actual Leica users just ignore.

Seems kinda silly, huh?

5 upvotes
Timmbits
By Timmbits (7 months ago)

That is a rather myopic point of view...
some of us, such as I, came here out of interest. I think MANY, WANT a Leica, but are just baffled, over and over, about the insane prices they charge for a product, and this can't be more evident when you have the original Panasonic to compare with.
It is rather insulting for you to suggest that we all have nothing better to do with our time that we'd just do posts with ill intentions. We comment because we care, because we wish some things would change. That is part of what forums and comments are all about. (part, but not the only part, obviously)

1 upvote
panpen
By panpen (6 months ago)

I wouldn't say they are haters. They simply can't afford to even try it.

0 upvotes
Azurael
By Azurael (7 months ago)

So does this mean we can soon look forward to the Audi M, the first car where you have to drive whilst looking through the front passenger window? I guess it would have to be crank started to express the essence of automobiles in their purest form...

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (7 months ago)

I like the exterior much better than the Pana. Two issues that bug me by design, no AEL lock button and the EVF/LCD toggle button is so far away from the thumb that is going to be a serious annoyance. The lack of an automatic eye sensor had to be a cost cutting decision- and a bad one.

Maybe the LF2 and C (Type 113) will have an AEL button (or programmable button near where the thumb lies) and auto switching EVF next time. Till then, I wait :).

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

Except for the choice of plastic colours, this “Leica’s” exterior is no different than the Panasonic LF1.

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (7 months ago)

Um yes, its very different. No bulge for the viewfinder for one. Much better lines and design overall. Color scheme better, the eyepiece around the viewfinder, .... many different design upgrades.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

All right I give you that the VF bulge is a bit bigger (longer) on the Leica, so does more to protect the PASM dial for being turned inadvertently.

I guess the Panasonic has bit of a eye piece, but it's different.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

cgarrard:

I looked again, and the eye piece on the LF1 is NOT significantly different than that on the "Leica".

0 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (7 months ago)

AEL can be assigned to the Fn button on the rear.

1 upvote
schaki
By schaki (7 months ago)

That's an expensive Panny LF1..

3 upvotes
jaygeephoto
By jaygeephoto (7 months ago)

Does Neiman Marcus have a camera counter? I'm just sayin'.

0 upvotes
ezradja
By ezradja (7 months ago)

I wonder how much Panasonic get from Leica rebadge digicams?

0 upvotes
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (7 months ago)

My guess.... probably nothing. And they probably produce and sell these cameras to Leica at their own cost.

Remember... this is a two way partnership, where both parties get something. Panasonic gets to plaster the word "Leica" on many of their lenses in return. And this is worth a lot to them.

Of course, we are both guessing, since none of us has actually seen the contract between them. But I still think both have gained enormously from this partnership.

5 upvotes
Yxa
By Yxa (7 months ago)

I've worked with OEM Products.
In this case I am certain that Leica buys the camera from Panasonic at a price that gives Panasonic a healthy margin.
Usually this would mean that you have two products in the market that are similar
But one of the products is substantially more expensive because it must carry the manufacturers margin (OEM) plus the company that rebadged the product (Leica's) margin.
This kind of Products (rebadged) are often hard to sell but persons that buy Leica aren't that price sensitive are they?

0 upvotes
Max Fun
By Max Fun (7 months ago)

Yxa, it's not exactly OEM when Leica supplies the lens, or at least its name on the lens.

0 upvotes
Hugo808
By Hugo808 (7 months ago)

Matching handbag? Now that is effective target marketing!

4 upvotes
zeyno44
By zeyno44 (7 months ago)

If they commissioned Audi to design this camera, than they might as well commission Apple to market it....

0 upvotes
webrunner5
By webrunner5 (7 months ago)

Leica has just turned into a Whore as of late. They need to get a grip, no pun intended. What Goofball would pay for that.

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Hugo808
By Hugo808 (7 months ago)

What Goofball would pay for that? People who want a gold camera with matching hand bag I suppose. Probably not most of the users of this site.

I think it's an interesting way to approach an untapped market but can't help thinking they'd be better off with making a few more M240's which *still* aren't in the shops almost a year after announcement.

4 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

webrunner:

Leica has always marketed expensive over crafted version of its cameras, in this case a Panasonic. I'm sure you can find an alligator skin covered M6.

1 upvote
jaygeephoto
By jaygeephoto (7 months ago)

Well, yes. I too kind of lost interest when I scrolled through the different "dedicated" case options and didn't see a red alligator one.

0 upvotes
johnparas11zenfoliodotcom
By johnparas11zenfoliodotcom (7 months ago)

I do not have a lightroom software..if i am in need of a camera like the LF1-- I might buy the Leica version.. you have to admit.. it looks a lot better than the LF1 (and I am sure the IQ will be the same..).. so if the LR 5 is $150-- that is just like paying $50 for a better looking camera..not because it has a red dot..

although I wish the LF1 or this leica version.. had a hot shoe..

3 upvotes
tommy leong
By tommy leong (7 months ago)

i used to criticize them for this kind of things
THEN it dawned on me, that we need these 'customers' to keep Leica from one M model to the next.

Just cheer them on, "there is one born every day"

1 upvote
Duckysaurus
By Duckysaurus (7 months ago)

Well, did you see the Hassy branded Sony RX100? Same crap.

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (7 months ago)

Leica's fluff...

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

So?

1 upvote
RStyga
By RStyga (7 months ago)

So, nothing. I tend to forget sometimes that it's ultimately all about the profit, and announcements like this bring me back to reality. I get tempted, however, from time to time to subscribe to a more romantic view that historic manufacturers, like Leica, do it for the love of it; apparently, save the marketing dept.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

And so Leica is not new to marketing fluffy version of say the M6 or M9.

This is a perfectly nice Panasonic with a decent lens and a very nice case. (I'd bet the lens in the Olympus XZ10 is better though.)

Some how I don't think the new 50mm Leica M F2.0 which retails for $7,000 is fluff. I don't think the M9 or M240 are fluff either, though yes problematic for that price. The S2 is a staggeringly good camera at lower ISOs. Leica was smart to do specialized medium format lenses which can work with the flat sensor plane. The S2, body, is also smaller than a Nikon D4 body.

1 upvote
RStyga
By RStyga (7 months ago)

Problematic for their price; you can type that in upper case letters. I'd like to hear the arguments in favour of S2 vs 645D... that'd be entertaining..

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

The 645D is a Pentax camera that uses good Pentax lenses, the S2 uses astoundingly better Leica lenses, and can take the already extraordinary ContaxZeiss medium format lenses.

(I guess there's a possibility that the Pentax can take the Contax lenses too.)

So the S2 system has huge optical advantages over the Pentax.

The body of the S2 is also less bulky.

The S2 is really big deal, not limited to the studio.

1 upvote
RStyga
By RStyga (7 months ago)

I think 645D is not a "Pentax camera" but a superb full weather-sealed camera, made by Pentax, and Pentax lenses are superb lenses, all at a fraction of Leica gear's cost. Leica gear perform, indeed, really well but a great deal around Leica's performance is brand hype.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

RS-

In other words, either you’ve never used good Leica lenses or don’t have particularly good eyesight.

The Pentax is a perfectly good camera as are the lenses. However the lenses don’t come anywhere near the optical quality of good Zeiss and Leica lenses.

And it’s not as if the Leica S2 isn’t sealed against weather either.

Sure, if you’d like to save some money, but want to shoot medium format, the Pentax is a good choice–and the body could equal or better the Leica in some ways, but not the lenses.

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (7 months ago)

Both, I have never used an insanely expensive Leica lens and indeed do have poor eyesight but I'm not sure you really appreciate and realise the difference in cost between a Leica and a Pentax 645 lens. I insist that in the field the difference in IQ does not account for the price difference; at all.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

RStyga:

Well a week late: Right those who claim lenses from say Pentax or Nikon come even close to the performance of a good Leica lens aren't going to be treated seriously. And I realize that's not exactly what you're claiming here.

I've used and owned very good Leica 35mm lenses, and there a big difference between good, Pentax, and Leica.

It's up to you to decide if that difference matters enough to pay for it.

It's not like you can buy Pentax 645 lenses for $500.

0 upvotes
Lucas_
By Lucas_ (7 months ago)

I initially thought this Leica would be competing with the venerable Sonys RX100 / 100MII but it's far from that. The zoom range is maybe atractive, but the 1/1.7 sensor is no contender, and the price is Leica-style! At least it looks pretty.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

This Panasonic LF1 has a much much smaller body than the Sony RX100. And a built-in EVF.

Right now the Panasonic LF1 is selling for near the list price of $499--that will change, particularly when people realize that the Olympus XZ10 is a somewhat better camera, but without an EVF.

The Sony RX100 is all well and good, but it doesn't have the greatest optical quality in the zoom lens when fully zoomed and loses a good bit of lowlight performance at full zoom. (It's also a lot more expensive than either the Panasonic LF1 or the Olympus XZ10.)

0 upvotes
Lucas_
By Lucas_ (7 months ago)

The Sony RX100 is selling for $599.00 and with it's 20MP 1" sensor, Zeiss lens, aluminum body, etc, is a quite superior camera. All reviews attest to that. The top level RX100 MII adds a tilt LCD, backlit sensor and std hotshoe sells for $748.00 - still a lot less than this Leica. The Leica EVF is a nice feature, but its 200k points resolution is too low.
IMHO, the Sony approach is way better in every way.

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
1 upvote
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

Many good points, but I'm just not seeing how $748 is "a lot less" than $699. Way more camera for similar money, yes.

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

Lucas--

No one is disputing that wide open the Sony is better in lowlight. However: zoomed out it is not a fast or optically great lens.

Drop the more pixels=equals better IQ claims--this is not 2002.

And neither version of the Sony RX100 has a built-in EVF.

Nor is the Sony anywhere near as pocketable as the Panasonic LF1.

Now the Sony likely also has much better video.

However the Sony is not directed at the same market, and the newer RX100ii still sells very near suggested retail.

In many ways because of the fast lenses when fully zoomed out the Panasonic LX7 and Olympus XZ10 are more appealing than the Sony RX100ii, unless you know in advance that you'll only shoot wide with the Sony.

1 upvote
Gesture
By Gesture (7 months ago)

Nice styling but one sees so many of these "point and shoot" cameras and even this class of premium compact (Panasonic LX and now LF, Samsung EX, Olympus XZ) has its commonalties (buttons, control ring, etc.), one begins to wonder who really designs the modern digital camera and then fills individual OEM specifications and tweaks?

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

You forgot Canon, which introduced that control ring on these small digital cameras. And the Samsung has a flip screen.

0 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (7 months ago)

So, M-Type means "supports M mount".
X-Something means it has an APS-C, or cropped sensor camera.
Vario means it has a zoom, not a fixed focal length lens.
C-Type means a "compact camera"?

0 upvotes
Paul Farace
By Paul Farace (7 months ago)

Stylish and fashion-forward consumers? There is a line I don't want to see in a press release... I never saw a IIIg or M3 in the hands of anyone I'd call stylish and fashion-forward! In fact, most of the shooters with these cameras smelled of hypo, cigarettes and body odor!

How about marketing this to noobs with more money than brains?
Give me a Fuji any day!

2 upvotes
Andystack
By Andystack (7 months ago)

I had a lx3 once, very good camera, if I could of afforded it then would have bought the leica version just to be rid of the "lumix" badge, a most unfortunate product name.

1 upvote
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (7 months ago)

Leica has rebadged a Panasonic ILC before.... the Leica Digilux 3 was a rebadged (and very slightly modified) Panasonic L1.

The interesting part was that the L1 was actually a rebadged Olympus E330, or at least a camera based on it. Check the specs. These three cameras are virtually identical inside, with different styling on the outside.

Comment edited 49 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
ntsan
By ntsan (7 months ago)

Who want to see a rebadged GX7?

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (7 months ago)

Fine if the lenses measure up to Leica standards.

0 upvotes
TakenUserName
By TakenUserName (7 months ago)

Now when will Leica rebadge dome of the Panasonic 4/3 cameras. That is a gaping home in their lineup.

0 upvotes
Frank_BR
By Frank_BR (7 months ago)

Leica doesn't rebadge m43 Panasonic cameras because that would strongly hurt the sales of the M system.

4 upvotes
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (7 months ago)

Frank.... seriously... no one who wants a Leica M will buy a Panasonic G something instead. These are completely different cameras, designed for different purposes.

People who want a FF rangefinder camera will not substitute a MILC camera with a sensor 1/4th as large to save some money.

There would be absolutely no threat to Leica M sales if Leica rebadged the GX7 or even the GH3.

I really wonder why they haven't done this yet. It seems like a no brainer.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

Leica m43 might not cannibalize the M line, but it would make the X series a tough sell, no? Not that that's a bad thing. Surely there's more opportunity in pumping out more Leica-badged m43 lenses, never mind Leica-badged bodies, given the size of the ecosystem.

1 upvote
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (7 months ago)

Yes... but I bet a Leica branded GX7 would more than make up for any fixed lens X series camera sales lost.

They could bundle the Leica GX7 with a Leicasonic 25mm f/1.4 lens for $2,500, and bundle the Leica GH-3 with a Leicasonic 42.5mm f/1.7 lens for $3,500. Then create a bunch of stylish cases and straps for them.

Some Leica users might be happy to buy M4/3 cameras if they had a red dot on them....

0 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

Of course, Leica would have to backtrack on its position stated a couple of years ago that m43 was just not worthy of a Leica body because of the small sensor, and also if memory serves the software-based lens corrections found in the standard.

Stranger things have happened; all they'd have to say is "well, *now* it's good enough for us, and we still won't put our name on any software-corrected lenses." But they'd still have to support those dreaded corrections in "their" bodies.

Always struck me as a strange position given the willingness to rebadge and sell P&S and superzooms, with their tiny sensors and rampant use of software corrections...

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
panpen
By panpen (6 months ago)

"Leica doesn't rebadge m43 Panasonic cameras because that would strongly hurt the sales of the M system."

Now, that was the best joke ever. Like a junk m4/3 camera (I have one myself) can compete with a Leica M
It's like saying Ferrari can't stick their emblem on a Hunday to avoid competing with the formula 1 car. Hillarious. So much wisdom on dpreview

0 upvotes
Blake Willis
By Blake Willis (7 months ago)

So which Panasonic camera is this a rebrand of again? (for sale specifically in dutyfree shops in Dubai airport)

If it says Leica on the lens, does that mean that Leica designed the lens in the Panasonic equivalent too?

1 upvote
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

LF1, linked at the top of the page.

More likely it means it is a Panasonic lens that meets Leica technical criteria.

You can buy a $100 Panasonic P&S with a lens that says Leica on it... I doubt very much these are "designed by Leica", and I likewise doubt the lens on this camera was directly designed by Leica, though I suppose it's possible.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (7 months ago)

Exactly. Love my Panasonic LZ8 and its Leica lens! Exceptional camera BTW for its price.

0 upvotes
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (7 months ago)

There is a long tradition of Leica having C cameras made by someone else....

1973- Leica CL, film camera, Made by Minolta
1980- Leica CLE, film camera, Made by Minolta
1999- Leica C1, film camera, Made by Minolta
2002- Leica C2, film camera, Made by Panasonic
2002- Leica C3, film camera, Made by Panasonic
2006- Leica C-Lux-1, digital camera, Made by Panasonic
2007- Leica C-Lux-2, digital camera, Made by Panasonic
2008- Leica C-Lux-3, digital camera, Made by Panasonic
2013- Leica C Typ 112 - digital camera, Made by Panasonic

There were also two more C film cameras that were actually made by Leica in Germany...

2004- Leica CM
2004- Leica CM Zoom

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Jay Bell
By Jay Bell (6 months ago)

1973 Leica CL designed by Minolta made in a Leica factory in Portugal.
Leica CLE no such model that was a Minolta model only from Japan.
1999 Leica C1 made by Panasonic in Japan.
2002 Leica C2 designed by Panasonic, lens glass made in Germany camera made in China.

0 upvotes
Photoman
By Photoman (7 months ago)

When I saw the "C" word, I thought someone was being rude. Not the best choice Leica marketing.

2 upvotes
white shadow
By white shadow (7 months ago)

What were you thinking about the "C" word when you thought someone was being rude?

"C" can just mean "compact" or "cute".

What about "Fashion Connection United Kingdom" or "FCUK"?

Well, like fashion, it may just sell better.

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
1 upvote
ecm
By ecm (7 months ago)

Hey Hasselblad! See what they did there? You should take notes!

1 upvote
dccdp
By dccdp (7 months ago)

You know, the LF1 even has Leica written on it, too :)

0 upvotes
utomo99
By utomo99 (7 months ago)

Instead of just rebranding products, why Leica did not do some smarter way ?
1. Put Faster Lens.
2. Read the user comments about that cameras and improve it based on that.
and other improvements.
And I believe people will respect better

3 upvotes
guyfawkes
By guyfawkes (7 months ago)

I doubt it really matters what Leica do; those who have no respect for Leica as a company are unlikely to be swayed. Leica prices will always be high, and as a result they will always be out of reach of many who get a kick out of ranting both against Leica and Leica owners. It's jealousy or envy, take your pick, but it is seldom based on reasoned argument.

Do people hate Ferraris or Bentleys because they are expensive? No they don't, but in some small minds Leica is fair game. It never ever was so, so I do not understand the modern mind change. As for Leica prices, well, even Canon and Nikon have admitted that some of their lenses are in Leica territory, and have to be so because they are made in very limited numbers. I don't see anyone ranting about the prices of these specialist lenses.

4 upvotes
hydrospanner
By hydrospanner (7 months ago)

Jeez, guyfawkes, smug much?

So it's okay to charge double or more for the same guys for a different faceplate...and anyone that doesn't think so is just jealous?

Get over yourself.

4 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

Double or more? Where are you getting your info?

0 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

And a more serious response to your original post: change the lens and a bunch of other stuff, and you can no longer make both cameras on the same production line. You now have two different cameras, defeating the purpose of the exercise. Now they really would have to charge double or more. Possibly a lot more.

My guess is any camera that gets rebadged like this -- just like the dozen or so others that have been exactly the same except cosmetics -- is designed from the outset to be rebadged, and has at least a minimal Leica-supplied list of features.

If so, once the Panasonic version goes to manufacturing, so has the Leica version until you get to the end of the line and the guts are put inside a case.

3 upvotes
guyfawkes
By guyfawkes (7 months ago)

@ mattmtl.

I fully understand your point, well made, and not rude.

How much more should a Leica re-worked (I prefer this to badged, as there is more to it than this) Panasonic cost? Does Leica pitch it at cost +, or where it feels its target audience will accept? To some, it will come as no surprise that it is more likely to be the latter. To others, well they get upset because it is not what they personally think it should be.

There is undoubtedly a lot of commonality between the Leica and the Panasonic, but I can see that the top plate is completely different, so this bit does require separate tooling and machining, and on a low volume product just how much does this add to the price? Like millions more, I have no idea. Nor do I have any idea of how much extra attention Leica may be giving to QC, if indeed they are. But if they are, this is a highly labour intensive part of production and will have to be factored into their pricing.

0 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

The only difference I see is that the Leica version is slightly taller on the viewfinder side, to eliminate the small viewfinder "hump" (or rather extend it almost to the mode dial). Otherwise the controls are identical and positioned identically. Surely this involves few or no modifications to the camera's innards.

Giving the top plate a shoulder instead of a hump seems to me about the slightest possible difference. Compare the housings on L1 vs. Digilux 3 or any LX vs its corresponding D-Lux and this strikes me as just about as similar as Panasonic and Leica siblings have ever been.

So, I maintain that in all likelihood these two cameras go down the same production line until the very last step: encasing the guts in the external shell.

As for what Leica should charge, the price, about $200 more than the Panasonic version, seems reasonable given the software and warranty differences. It is not outrageous like the "Hasselblads-in-name-only" currently on the market.

0 upvotes
panpen
By panpen (6 months ago)

"So it's okay to charge double or more for the same guys for a different faceplate...and anyone that doesn't think so is just jealous?"
Nobody's forcing you to buy. Not that you can even afford it anyway.

0 upvotes
Ben O Connor
By Ben O Connor (7 months ago)

Forget about its optical-image etc. issues. It is the most beautifully crafted P & S Camera in past 10 years.

Very elegant very classy. Sure there is panasonic something inside, but can you say that clearly ? NO.

And its reasonably priced. Considering Swedish made wood jacket sony NEX and RX cameras .. called hazelwood...or whatever.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (7 months ago)

> It is the most beautifully crafted P & S Camera in past 10 years.

It is? Most people would say the Fujifilm X10 is. And I tend to agree with them.

I don't see what is so special about this compact. It looks similar to the RX100 - a great camera, but a no-grip, slippery bar of soap design is not something I'd characterize as "beautifully crafted".

4 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

" Sure there is panasonic something inside, but can you say that clearly ? NO."

Um, YES.

It's amazing that anyone in 2013 has any doubt that this is a Panasonic with cosmetics by Leica. And lens standards, but then the LF1 has the same lens, too.

There is nothing wrong with Leica and Panasonic working together this way. And if it helps Leica keep making its M cameras and others, more power to them. But it's silly to think it has any Leica secret sauce that the Panasonic version doesn't have.

3 upvotes
KonstantinosK
By KonstantinosK (7 months ago)

The camera itself is plain and usual P&S. I see nothing interesting there... The cases look wonderful, though!

2 upvotes
Ben O Connor
By Ben O Connor (7 months ago)

Well fujifilm X series are all influenced from older Leica models ;) we all know it. So They are more like a copy cat than an original beauty.

Konstatinos is right, caes looks wonderfull.

ps: still the most beautiull looking cam was Leica X1. ITs just so elegant and minimalistic at the same time. hidden hotshue, single focal lenght.... As long as we talk how it "looks" LEica X1 would be my choice.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (7 months ago)

Aaah, so much Leica HYPER-HYPE (trademark that Colbert-style) to choose from in this release.

My fave at the moment though is: "AN EXTRAORDINARILY LARGE SENSOR FOR ITS CLASS with a resolution of 12.1 megapixels".

And for what class, pray tell, would a 1/1.7" sensor be extraordinarily large ? There's only one size smaller in the dying compact market !!
Phones, perhaps ?? And even phones soon . . . hmm, maybe the new coming iwatches.

Comedy gold, Leica.

PS
A close second is: "the SULTRY BEAUTY of the Leica C". Uh oh, my zoom is extending !

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
mcshan
By mcshan (7 months ago)

Prediction: the question will be asked on the forum "what is the difference between the Pana and Leica versions?". The replies always include that the Leica version has a slightly different processing engine.

Please. They are the same cameras inside.

1 upvote
Richard Murdey
By Richard Murdey (7 months ago)

I've always understood it to mean that the default image parameters were adjusted to -1 contrast, -1 saturation, +1 sharpness vs. the Panasonic version.

And you get a copy of Lightroom with the Leica.

And it looks more refined.

And the kicker, when you go to sell it in three years it will be worth a much higher percentage of what you paid for it than the Panasonic, such is the cachet of the branding.

I've said it before, but Leica cameras are like macbooks. They retain such a high value on the used market that it more than makes up for the initial price premium.

2 upvotes
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (7 months ago)

I think many of you are being unfair to Leica, and to Leica users by extension.

While I personally wouldn't spend several hundred dollars more for a Leica version of a Panasonic camera, there are plenty of people who would. "A few hundred dollars more" is a relative term, based on how much disposable income you have. Some folks have the money for this, even if I don't.

And selling these rebadged Panasonic cameras might be one of the things that helped bring Leica back from the brink of bankruptcy around ten years ago. This might even be why Leica can sell full frame rangefinder cameras today, that many professional photographers swear by.

We as a group of photo enthusiasts are better off having Leica still in business, even if their products are out of our price range.

7 upvotes
hjr13
By hjr13 (7 months ago)

+1

0 upvotes
splendic
By splendic (7 months ago)

You're conflating people's reactions toward the buyers of these particular Leicas (Panasonics), with that of their reactions to the Leica brand.

A lot of people probably think it's genius what Leica does (rebranding a middling P&S) for bigger bucks. And some people think that they're watering down their brand (debatable).

But many agree that suffering the fools who buy these "Leicas" (and tout them to be in some way superior to their spec sheet because of some internal, unknowable Leica magic) is... frustrating.

Also, rich people who are photo enthusiasts don't buy these. They either buy the real thing, or some other giant/pricey rig to show of their true blue photo "enthusiasm".

And rich non-enthusiasts? They buy whatever camera over a $500 hundred bucks that the salesmen recommended.

0 upvotes
Lukino
By Lukino (7 months ago)

Based on people I know, splendic, you got this reversed. Rich people who are photo enthusisasts buys this kind of cameras, because it's a good camera, and also chic and good looking. Also, this looks to be positioned as healty girly camera, look at the pochette with enought space for an iphone and some rolls of money.
Then there are rich people who are not photo enthusiasts, and they always go around with a heavy Nikon or Canon kit, always with default lens and always in full auto.
Then there are rich people who are serious photoamateurs. They buy exactly the same stuff as non rich ones, just have to wait less before they can afford what they want.

0 upvotes
JackM
By JackM (7 months ago)

Might have been interesting if it had a 1" sensor.

5 upvotes
samhain
By samhain (7 months ago)

The EVF is terrible, atleast on the Panasonic model I played with.

3 upvotes
deep7
By deep7 (7 months ago)

At least it has one...

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

it has one to put on some weight.

1 upvote
PatMann
By PatMann (7 months ago)

At 200k dots, wouldn't expect much.

0 upvotes
James C. Murray
By James C. Murray (7 months ago)

Why not just wear the price tag around your neck.

11 upvotes
Lukino
By Lukino (7 months ago)

Because poor people would brag all the time about how smart they are in saving 200$ with the panny model.

0 upvotes
Damo83
By Damo83 (7 months ago)

Who cares what kind of images it produces. Nice looking camera, that's all that matters.

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

a Leica under someone's neck says "fool" or "new rich"

2 upvotes
ric63
By ric63 (7 months ago)

Too true!
We see it every day with people who purchase top end Canon cameras with L series lenses, then use them on auto with the lens hood on backwards!
Or people who buy a front wheel drive BMW or a quartz powerd Rolex, dont know what they bought except the badge.

1 upvote
quiquae
By quiquae (7 months ago)

There has never been a front wheel BMW, and a quartz Rolex is actually a rare collector's item. Just sayin'.

2 upvotes
ric63
By ric63 (7 months ago)

New BMW 1 series out soon is FWD
Saying that, I did mean to say FWD Mercedes Benz
Check out Rolex Oysterquartz and the Rolex Celini range.
I was simply making a point that people buy the badge without knowing it's engineering or capabilities.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

it looks nice from front (except the embarrassing Leica brand),
but not as good as Lumix LF1 from back.
http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/compact/lf1/mainparts.html

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (7 months ago)

"The Leica C is available in two stunning finishes—champagne and bordeaux—and is complemented by a range of accessories in premium materials that highlight the distinctive, eye-catching looks of the new Leica compact camera line.

The perfect complement to the Leica C’s well-designed and stylish look, Leica is offering a range of specially designed, perfectly finished, premium matching accessories."

What is it with photo industry press releases?

4 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (7 months ago)

Sadly, they just know the market for this camera: people with money to blow and more interested in their image than the ones they capture.

10 upvotes
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (7 months ago)

Rebadging is nothing unique to the camera industry.

Auto makers have been doing it for years. The Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe were exactly the same car. They were even made in the same factory.

Sometimes a manufacturer even rebadge their own products. Many Lexus cars are simply slightly different versions of Toyota vehicles. They add more options in the base price, provide a better warranty, and give you better customer service.

Which is pretty much the same thing that Leica is doing.

4 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

it could be Pana's marketing effort to show that Leica can still breath.

0 upvotes
nellydesign
By nellydesign (7 months ago)

The majority of the time auto manufacturers rebadge their own vehicles. It's not as it used to be where you could tell they were the same exact car with different taillamps or something. Today it's all about platform sharing where the chassis is largely the same but with completely different sheetmetal, interiors, and even powertrains. This looks like an old school rebadge. Change the name and keep the internals exactly the same while charging twice as much for it.

0 upvotes
attomole
By attomole (7 months ago)

Good for Leica. Always look on the Leica cabinet in Airport retailers and whatever camera its wrapped over. the re-branding makes great looking cameras, in terms of design no other camera maker comes close to the strength of their design identity which transcends the product.
None of which lends anything to its ability as a photographic tool and all of which will have many here foaming at the mouth. I don't care they have had to sell out a bit to survive. This will be a good camera because the Panasonic inside is a good camera.
I only wish Pana did a version of a Leica flagship. Would love an affordable Leica Monochrome.

5 upvotes
jon404
By jon404 (7 months ago)

I have a Sony RX100. Now, I don't know if I'm comparing apples with oranges, but why on earth would someone buy this Leica?

2 upvotes
T3
By T3 (7 months ago)

People who have money and care about style. Just open up the pages of Vogue, GQ, Marie Claire, or any other fashion magazine. Just walk into a Neiman Marcus or any other high end department store. I realize that these names may be unfamiliar to people here on this forum, and they represent a world apart from the existences of many people here, but there are fashionable people in the world who do have money to spend. Someone who spends hundreds of dollars on a single pair of sunglasses, or thousands of dollars on a handbag or watch, certainly would have no problem spending a couple hundred dollars more for a Leica-branded attractive camera like this. A product like this is as much a fashion accessory as it is a camera. I have female friends who buy purses that cost in the thousands of dollars. I know, crazy, right? But I'm a guy, and I could care less about purses. I could see any of them buying this Leica to put in their purse or handbag.

4 upvotes
deep7
By deep7 (7 months ago)

Better lens, built-in viewfinder, fewer pixels making smaller, more convenient files. Also, built-in viewfinder and built-in viewfinder.

1 upvote
Vlad S
By Vlad S (7 months ago)

plus extra reach (even considering lower pixel count)

0 upvotes
Raymond Cho
By Raymond Cho (7 months ago)

to an extent isn't this with all cameras even with the SLRs too? when you look at what most people use their cameras for. don't get me wrong SLRs is very versatile, some are built for studio strobes, sports, wildlife. but what do most users use them for and what do many crave for. and every few years bodies upraded and every couple of years lenses are upgraded. doesn't it come a point in time when i have enough or do we keep on upgrading just because .. some do spend few hundreds on sunnies, but i've been told by some why do I spend thousands on photo gear .. i don't make any money out of it, it's just a hobby.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
white shadow
By white shadow (7 months ago)

@T3.

You are right!

Fashion don't have to be logical. In most cases, they aren't. A product would have achieved its objective if it has the ability to create product / consumer satisfaction.

Exclusivity sells. Women especially do not like to be seen wearing the same dress in a public gathering. This version definitely will achieve that goal for those who are fashion conscious.

Oh..Oh! There is another girl in the corner with the same camera.

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (7 months ago)

This is a camera that many affluent men will buy their wives for their birthday, or whatever. It's a lovely camera with lovely packaging and lovely accessories. Geek men on equipment forums will hate it, but this camera isn't for geek men on equipment forums. A woman who takes the care to dress impeccably from head to toe would certainly appreciate a camera like this. Most men here probably find it a chore just to match their socks. So I can easily see how many people on this forum wouldn't like this camera; it's just not aimed at you. Nothing wrong with a savvy company aiming at focused segments of the market. Just think of the car industry: you have rugged pickup trucks that can hall hay and carry toolboxes, and then you have sexy sporty luxury coup convertibles. Two very different markets, even though they are both cars.

17 upvotes
Stollen1234
By Stollen1234 (7 months ago)

whats the point of all these negative and meaningless comments?
yes leica is expansive
yes you can get more features for your money with other brands..

no one if forcing you to buy a Leica..
no one is forcing you to buy a Porsche or a Jaguar..

Simply if you think its too expansive just buy another camera..

I assure you that Leica will still have a lot of fans arround the world despite all these negative comments.

how about you all go out and take few more shots with your cameras and having some fun

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
10 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (7 months ago)

The point is that it is a Panasonic. And it is fascinating to think about what drives people. Why buy a Leica that is a panasonic for Leica price?

It is you that interpret this fascination as negative. I don't.

5 upvotes
HMeYe
By HMeYe (7 months ago)

I have tried the Dlux 5 and LX5, the Dlux gives better , more true colors ... although I own now an LX7, but the processor of the Leica is different than that of the Pany .... this C will give more true colors than the LF1 for about the same price: LF1 ( $499 ) + LR5 ( $125) = $625 ... the C is priced for $699 .... so it's $75 more for the better design and Leica warranty .... it's a fair pricing !!!

2 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

" Why buy a Leica that is a panasonic for Leica price?"

Is it really a "Leica price"? Go check out some M lenses and accessories. You might be able to buy a genuine Leica lens hood, lens cap and camera strap for the price of this camera.

You can completely forget about any lens or camera made in Germany by Leica.

3 upvotes
xue24
By xue24 (7 months ago)

despite many people believe the leica version is exactly the same as pan, NO! it is not. the leica version does have a leica processor. the pan software can't open the leica raw file. if you shot jpeg, i agreed the difference may not hard to notice but you would see if they are side by side. and if you shot raw, there is difference. not saying which is better but there is difference. i tried both dlux 5 and lx5, it is not just the files, the af focus is not the same too. i try a macro shot and the pan can't focus at the exact same testing point. the dlux5 comes with LR3 and 2 yrs warranty. the lx5 actually cost more if i extended to 2 yrs warranty+ LR3. so if you are looking for LF1 and have no LR, you should consider the leica version. it is not about the red dot, not about cosmetic, not about better file, but it is not 100% the same cam and it is not overpriced.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

Although the software and warranty do add value, and maybe even enough value to justify the price difference (depends on the person), I have never seen convincing evidence of real photographic differences between equivalent LX and D-Lux models, or any other Pana/Leica pair.

Incompatible RAW files could be a small firmware adjustment. Differences in macro focusing could be sample variation (or worse, a faulty LX).

It would be interesting if DP Review would put this to rest and compare some Panasonic and Leica cameras side-by-side.

0 upvotes
xue24
By xue24 (7 months ago)

"small firmware adjustment, faulty LX (i wouldn't agree i tested a faulty unit but i should make it clear the macro focus capability is different)" one can have millions other reason trying to proof the D-luxs and LXs are exact same cam but even a little firmware adjustment, it is no longer the same cam, that's the point. firmware adjustment makes big difference in digital world. i have friend who believed his LX3 is no different than the D-lux4 until he took enough shots and finally agreed it is not the same when compare to my other friend's D-lux 4 files. the difference is more obvious in prints where the IQ is true quality of the file but not the monitor. after all, i am just saying it is not the same cam and it is not overpriced. whether it is better or fit your needs is another story.

2 upvotes
xue24
By xue24 (7 months ago)

also, whether the raw converter could release the file to its max. potential is a factor to consider. a recent test of fuji x trans and sigma dp files using iridient developer 2.2 shows very different results as compare to the LR or its default converter. again, not saying which is better or worst but it is difference. i believe a jpeg and a raw shooter may have very different experience. no doubt this leica is a rebranded pan, but neglecting software/ firmware difference which plays a key role in digital world and simply claiming two things are the same base on hardware spec only is not technically correct.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence that the Pana and Leica versions of any two cameras (D-Lux/LC, Digilux 3/L1, etc.) are different in any meaningful way?

Any documented difference in macro focusing capability?

It's not that I don't believe your observations, it's that "my experience" and "my friend" do not really prove anything, there is always the risk of sample variation, or that your informal tests were affected by some variable completely unrelated to the cameras.

I have seen my share of comparisons online and have never come across any that proved a significant difference.

And I do not consider a difference "significant" if you can change a couple of settings on one to make it identical to the other.

0 upvotes
xue24
By xue24 (7 months ago)

lots of DC have 1cm macro focus per spec but they certainly not the same, not documented. all files produce by same cam should be open by the same software, if it is not, then it could not be solved by changing a couple of setting on a cam and "for me" is significant.

i agree "my whatever" do not prove anything so does the other way around. no test can eliminate sample variations and variables, we can only minimize. side by side comparison are all over the web but none is being agreed at 100%, simply because the monitor variation will never be eliminated.

here we share "my experiences" for other's interest/ reference. me only sharing the overall cam package is not overpriced (cam+LR+2yrs warranty), the output files are not the same, the software/ firmware difference should be consider in digital world.
if these are not what you agreed, i respect that.

0 upvotes
xue24
By xue24 (7 months ago)

i am no leica fans and not here to defense it because i own one. i shot other cams also. just want to share a different angle on this "pan vs leica rebranded pan" topic. if one happens looking for a pan cam and the rebranded leica version in this case, should be on the consideration list as it does not cost more (provided you need the LR and value the 2 yrs warranty). why not try for your own experiences if no extra cost involved.

some would consider this as stupid act, but no matter how many reviews and comparison one have go through, it don't change the fact that you never try one and other's experiences will never have the best values as your own, correct?!

0 upvotes
mattmtl
By mattmtl (7 months ago)

If the Leica raw files can't be opened by Panasonic's default converter, that's irrelevant. It just means there is a difference at the file-system level that makes them formally incompatible, but this has nothing to do with the raw output itself.

What IS relevant is how the files compare when opened by some converter with which *both* are compatible, such as Lightroom. What happens then? I'd bet money there is no practical difference in the raw output beyond what can be accounted for by sample variation and/or testing error.

As far as JPEG output goes, "tweaked Leica firmware" has usually proven to be achievable on the equivalent Panasonic by small adjustments to the saturation, sharpness etc. settings.

Regarding the price, I don't know who you're debating, but it isn't me. I've said all along that the better bundled software and better warranty may well be enough value to justify the difference, depending on the person. I've never said that the Leica is overpriced.

Comment edited 41 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
joe6pack
By joe6pack (7 months ago)

This is the LF-1 for China.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (7 months ago)

Nice cameras. One of the great heritages in photography. I just wish Leica would say "co-developed with Panasonic" on these re-badged cameras. Don't pretend "it's a Leica."

2 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (7 months ago)

I think they can do this because not all people reads sites like DPReview. So, enough people do not know that it really is a renamed Panasonic, but think they actually buy a Leica.

And, then of course there are those that DO know it and still buy the Leica. For some reason, real or imagined.

1 upvote
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (7 months ago)

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1

1 upvote
dual12
By dual12 (7 months ago)

I'm not interested in a camera like this, but if I was interested, I'd buy the Panasonic. I don't see any good reasons to buy the Leica. I couldn't care less about the brand. Moreover, to me, the Leica brand stands for way, way overpriced. I consider it a sucker's brand.

1 upvote
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (7 months ago)

Me to. Both because I would save some money, but also because I don´t like to make a fool of myself.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
STIG PALM
By STIG PALM (7 months ago)

Who would consider you as a fool? The fan boys of pro cameras?
Other people don't care.

0 upvotes
jhinkey
By jhinkey (7 months ago)

ugh! Do they really make any money doing this?

0 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (7 months ago)

They probably do. They have done this many times now.

In a photo shop I have nearby they have lots of Leica cameras in the window, both the real thing and Panasonic rebadged ones. It looks quite neat really. It is probably tempting for someone with limited funds to step in an buy a Panasonic.

3 upvotes
T3
By T3 (7 months ago)

Of course they do. Probably a lot more than you think.

3 upvotes
Cailean Gallimore
By Cailean Gallimore (7 months ago)

Another one for the vanity market.

1 upvote
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (7 months ago)

They are quite good actually. And so are the Panasonic. More money for the same thing, but with another label. Hmmmm ... might be called vanity.

1 upvote
STIG PALM
By STIG PALM (7 months ago)

According to Steve Huff (well known?) Leica will charge USD200 more than for the equivalent Panasonic, however offer more software and warranties.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 244
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