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Canon's premium PowerShot G16 and S120 get minor updates

By dpreview staff on Aug 22, 2013 at 04:00 GMT

Canon's latest premium consumer cameras take on the smartphone by joining with it rather than continuing to fight, building in an easier Wi-Fi connection setup process as well as social media compatibility as their most outstanding new features. Though Wi-Fi is not new to the S series, Canon says the PowerShot S120 is easier to connect to cell phones and computers. Wi-Fi is new to the G16, though, which could be a welcome addition as smartphone users come around to wanting a little more from their pictures. Neither camera supports NFC (near-field communication), however, which would allow easy touch-to-connect functionality. Both iOS and Android are supported by Canon's CameraWindow app.

Jump to:

PowerShot G16

Canon's latest flagship enthusiast digital camera is mostly unchanged both outside and in, with the exception of its DIGIC 6 processor and Wi-Fi. Its fast F1.8 - 2.8 lens ranges from 28-140mm equivalents, allowing the retention of fast shutter speeds in low light, and its DIGIC 6 processor joins with the 12.1MP CMOS sensor, a combination Canon says will allow for better image quality in low light. Canon also says autofocus and shutter lag should be up to 50% faster with the G16.

Design-wise, the Canon G16 has a few new accents, with a more subtle curve to the grip and a harder edge around the top deck; otherwise, the look and feel is essentially the same. The G16 retains the front control dial, which is welcome for those shooting in Manual or semi-auto modes, as well as the increasingly rare optical viewfinder. Note that the lens ring on the G16 does not turn like the ring on the S120, but comes off to make room for accessory lenses.

The customizable shortcut button (marked with an S) moves from the left of the optical viewfinder to just under the movie record button on the right thumbgrip. A few buttons also change position on the back control cluster, with the metering mode button disappearing altogether. An EV compensation thumbdial juts out from the top deck of the camera just right of the optical viewfinder. The rear dial surrounding the control cluster complements the front dial, the pair allowing SLR-like control of aperture and shutter speed.

Other upgrades include a faster frame rate, which starts at 12.2 fps for the first six frames before dropping to 9.3 fps for up to 522 shots (when using a UHS-1 memory card, according to Canon). Full HD video is now available up to 1080 60p (up from 30p), with stereo audio mics and HDMI built in as before. Star Nightscape and Star Trails modes now allow capture of a field of stars in a landscape night scene, or star trails, using a longer exposure.

The Canon G16 is expected to ship in October 2013 for $550.

PowerShot S120

The main change to the PowerShot S120 is the slight increase to the maximum aperture, which now ranges from F1.8-5.7 instead of F2.0-5.9. This change addresses the fact that most other cameras in this category start at F1.8. Faster autofocus is listed as another feature worth noting, Canon claiming up to 50% improvement in shutter lag and AF speed.

The S120 still has the ring around the lens for a more mechanical feel when making adjustments. Rather than using an electronic motor as past S-series cameras did, the pop-up flash is now deployed via a sliding switch on the left side of the camera. A small Wi-Fi symbol sits below that, denoting its built-in Wi-Fi support.

Controls on the rear of the S120 are unchanged, and the LCD remains a capacitive touchscreen. The Canon S120 is also slightly larger than its predecessor, measuring 100 x 59 x 29mm rather than 99 x 59 x 27mm. Its frame rate has also improved to 12.1 fps for the first six frames and 9.4 fps for the remaining 635 shots with a UHS-1 SDHC/SDXC card. The Canon S120 now supports 1080 60p Full HD as well, with stereo mics and HDMI out.

The PowerShot S120 will ship in October 2013 for $450.


Press Release:

FOUR NEW CANON POWERSHOT MODELS PROVIDE IMPRESSIVE IMAGE QUALITY, POWERFUL OPTICS, AND FAST AUTOFOCUSING

MELVILLE, N.Y., August 22, 2013 - Adding to its trademark line of esteemed digital cameras, Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced the release of four new feature-packed PowerShot digital cameras: the PowerShot G16, PowerShot S120, PowerShot SX510 HS and PowerShot SX170 IS.  Designed to help photo enthusiasts create high-quality images and videos, these cameras feature advanced DIGIC imaging technology to deliver superb image quality in portable, compact digital camera bodies. In addition, all four models have the ability to achieve faster autofocusing speeds than was possible with previous PowerShot models. The PowerShot G16 and S120 also feature the new Star mode to help users capture the brilliance of a starry night sky, while the new Background Defocus mode allows users to soften the background of their images for a portraiture look.

For the connected photographer, the PowerShot G16, S120 and SX510 HS digital cameras come with built-in Wi-Fi® technology that allows for outstanding quality images and video files to be wirelessly transferred from the camera to social networking sites through CANON iMAGE GATEWAY#, to a PC, or users can upload images to virtually anywhere on their compatible iOS® or Android™ device* with the download of the free Canon CameraWindow app**.  The Wi-Fi® setup process has been improved by Canon, making it easier than ever for users to initially setup these cameras. Software no longer needs to be installed onto a user’s computer, so all initial setup can be accomplished from the user’s smart device or computer, allowing for easy photo sharing on-the-go. Images can also be printed wirelessly using Wireless PictBridgei on select printers, including the Canon PIXMA MG7120 or PIXMA MG5520 Wireless Photo All-In-One printers, so special moments can be preserved and cherished for years to come.   

“At Canon we are continually inspired to introduce the latest technological advancements to the PowerShot line of digital cameras,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, executive vice president and general manager, Imaging Technologies & Communications Group, Canon U.S.A. “Although smartphone camera popularity is continually increasing, the PowerShot line of cameras offers features such as advanced image sensors, high-quality optics, low-light capabilities and extremely fast autofocusing speeds that, when combined, are unrivaled by smartphone technology.”

PowerShot G16 Digital Camera

The PowerShot G16 digital camera builds upon the success of the PowerShot G15 by utilizing some of Canon’s most innovative technologies. The first PowerShot in the G-series to come equipped with built-in Wi-Fi® technology, the G16 has the ability to share images and video to social networking sites such as Facebook®, Twitter®, YouTube®, and Flickr® or via email through the use of CANON iMAGE GATEWAY. Users can also upload images from almost anywhere via their compatible iOS® or Android™ device with the download of the free Canon CameraWindow app.

The PowerShot G16 features a 28-140mm wide-angle lens with an aperture range of f/1.8 – f/2.8, which helps while shooting in low-light conditions or for users who want to create a dramatic shallow depth-of-field with soft backgrounds. The G16 is equipped with Canon’s HS System, which combines a DIGIC 6 image processor and a 12.1-megapixel High-Sensitivity CMOS image sensor, allowing for enhanced low-light image quality.

With improved AF times and reduced shooting lag over previous G-series models, the advancements to Canon’s AF system help ensure users never miss a shot. Continuous shooting speeds of up to 9.3 frames-per-second are possible with the PowerShot G16, allowing users to capture images in full resolution as they happen***. The G16 also captures 1080p/60p Full HD video, and includes a built-in stereo microphone and an HDMI output so users have the ability to view videos on their HDTV.

The PowerShot G16 also features new shooting modes to capture breathtaking images day or night. The new Star mode gives users the ability to capture the brilliance and wonder of the night sky through the use of three scene modes. “Star Nightscape” lets users shoot the radiance of stars in a landscape image, while the “Star Trails” mode captures trails of stars to turn them into a luminous still image. “Star Time Lapse Movie” captures continuous still images of the stars and then combines each to create a stunning video replicating the motion of the stars in the night sky.

In addition, the camera’s creative handheld HDR Scene mode automatically combines multiple shots of a scene to help create an image with a greater dynamic range without the necessity for a tripod. HDR Scene mode includes Natural, Art Bold, Art Embossed, Art Standard and Art Vivid options.

For photographers who want the convenience and ease-of-use of a compact camera with the feel of a DSLR, the PowerShot G16 features dials and controls similar to those on Canon’s EOS Digital SLR cameras.  It is also compatible with Canon Speedlite flashes and select accessories.

The PowerShot G16 is scheduled to be available in October 2013 for an estimated retail price of $549.99.

PowerShot S120 Digital Camera

Succeeding the PowerShot S110, the pocket-sized PowerShot S120 digital camera continues the tradition of built-in Wi-Fi® technology that allows for images and video to be shared to social networking sites or via email through the CANON iMAGE GATEWAY.  Users can also download the free Canon CameraWindow app to their compatible iOS® or Android™ device and upload images from virtually anywhere.

The PowerShot S120 features a sharp 24-120mm extra-wide angle lens with an aperture range of f/1.8-f/5.7. It is equipped with Canon’s HS System, which combines a DIGIC 6 image processor and a 12.1-megapixel High-Sensitivity CMOS image sensor allowing for enhanced low-light image quality. The advancements to Canon’s AF system allow users to achieve significantly faster autofocusing speeds. The S120 allows for continuous capture of up to 12.1 frames per secondii at 12.1-megapixels. The camera also records 1080p/60p Full HD video and includes a built-in stereo microphone and convenient playback via HDMI output.

Multiple creative shot modes such as the new Star mode, Background Defocus mode, and handheld HDR Scene mode give users the ability to create images they will be proud to share.  Smart AUTO technology selects 58 different pre-defined scenes without the need to switch modes, making it possible to take beautiful images in a variety of situations.

The PowerShot S120 is scheduled be available in October 2013 for an estimated retail price of $449.99.

For more information about the PowerShot G16, S120, SX510 HS, and SX170 IS digital camera models please visit: www.usa.canon.com/powershot.

#One-time registration is required on CANON iMAGE GATEWAY online photo album.
*Compatible with iOS version 6.0/6.1 or later and Android devices version 2.3/4.0/4.1/4.2 or later. Data charges may apply.

**This software enables you to upload images to social networking sites. Before uploading images, please be aware that image files may contain privacy related information such as people and places. If necessary, please delete such information. Canon does not obtain, collect or use such images or any information included in such images.
***The first six shots are shot at a rate of up to 12.2 fps. From the sixth shot onward, it becomes approximately 9.3 fps. The PowerShot G16 can continuously shoot up to 522 shots at approximately 9.3 fps when using an SDHC/SDXC UHS-I memory card based on Canon’s standard test method.
i PictBridge (Wireless LAN) certified printer is required.
ii The first six shots are at a rate of up to 12.1 fps. From the sixth shot onward, it becomes approximately 9.4 fps. The PowerShot S120 can continuously shoot up to 635 shots at approximately 9.4 fps when using SDHC/SDXC UHS-I memory card based on Canon’s standard test method.

Canon PowerShot G16 additional images

Canon PowerShot S120 additional images

Canon PowerShot G16 & S120 specifications

 Canon PowerShot G16Canon PowerShot S120
Price
MSRP$549.99$449.99
Body type
Body typeCompact
Sensor
Max resolution4000 x 3000
Other resolutions4000 x 2248, 4000 x 2664, 2992 x 2992, 2816 x 2112, 2816 x 1880, 2816 x 1584, 2112 x 2112, 1920 x 1080, 1600 x 1200, 1600 x 1064, 1200 x 1200, 640 x 480, 640 x 424, 640 x 360, 480 x 4804000 x 3000, 4000 x 2248, 4000 x 2664, 2992 x 2992, 2816 x 2112, 2816 x 1880, 2816 x 1584, 2112 x 2112, 1920 x 1080, 1600 x 1200, 1600 x 1064, 1200 x 1200, 640 x 480, 640 x 424, 640 x 360, 480 x 480
Image ratio w:h1:1, 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9
Effective pixels12 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors13 megapixels
Sensor size1/1.7" (7.44 x 5.58 mm)
Sensor typeBSI-CMOS
ProcessorDigic 6
Color spacesRGB
Color filter arrayPrimary Color Filter
Image
ISOAuto, 80 - 12800
White balance presets7
Custom white balanceYes (2)
Image stabilizationOptical
Uncompressed formatRAW
JPEG quality levelsSuperfine, Fine
Optics & Focus
Focal length (equiv.)28–140 mm24–120 mm
Optical zoom5×
Maximum apertureF1.8 - F2.8F1.8 - F5.7
Autofocus
  • Contrast Detect (sensor)
  • Multi-area
  • Center
  • Selective single-point
  • Tracking
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Face Detection
  • Live View
  • Contrast Detect (sensor)
  • Multi-area
  • Center
  • Selective single-point
  • Tracking
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Touch
  • Face Detection
  • Live View
Autofocus assist lampYes
Digital zoomYes (4x)
Manual focusYes
Macro focus range1 cm (0.39)3 cm (1.18)
Number of focus points9
Screen / viewfinder
Articulated LCDFixed
Screen size3
Screen dots922,000
Touch screenNoYes
Screen typeTFT PureColor II G LCDTFT PureColor II G Touch screen LCD
Live viewYes
Viewfinder typeOptical (tunnel)None
Viewfinder coverage80%
Photography features
Minimum shutter speed15 sec
Maximum shutter speed1/4000 sec1/2000 sec
Exposure modes
  • Auto
  • Hybrid Auto
  • Program AE
  • Shutter priority AE
  • Aperture priority AE
  • Manual
  • Custom
  • Movie
  • Creative Filters
  • Scene
Scene modes
  • Portrait
  • Smart Shutter (Smile, Wink Self-Timer, Face Self- Timer)
  • Star
  • Handheld Night Scene
  • Underwater
  • Snow
  • Fireworks
  • Portrait
  • Smart Shutter (Smile, Wink Self-Timer, Face Self-timer)
  • Star (star nightscape, star trails, star time-lapse movie)
  • Handheld Night Scene
  • Underwater
  • Snow
  • Fireworks
Built-in flashYes
Flash range7.00 m
External flashYes (Hot-shoe)No
Flash modesAuto, On, Off, Red-Eye, Slow Sync, Second CurtainAuto, on, slow synchro, off
Drive modes
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Continuous with AF
  • Self-Timer
Continuous drive12 fps
Self-timerYes (2 or 10 sec, Custom)
Metering modes
  • Multi
  • Center-weighted
  • Spot
Exposure compensation±3 (at 1/3 EV steps)
AE Bracketing (3 frames at 1/3 EV steps)
Videography features
Resolutions1920 x 1080 (60 or 30 fps), 1280 x 720 (30 fps), 640 x 480 (30 fps)
FormatMPEG-4, H.264
Videography notesMiniature Effect (720p, 480p): 6fps, 3fps, 1.5 fps; Super Slow Motion Movie (480p, 240p): 120, 240 fps; Star Time-Lapse Movie (1080p): 15 fpsMiniature Effect (720p, 480p) 6fps, 3fps, 1.5 fps; Super Slow Motion Movie (480p, 240p): 120, 240 fps; Star time-lapse movie (1080p): 15 fps
MicrophoneStereo
SpeakerMono
Storage
Storage typesSD/SDHC/SDXC
Storage includedNone
Connectivity
USB USB 2.0 (480 Mbit/sec)
HDMIYes (Mini)
WirelessBuilt-In
Wireless notesWireless LAN (IEEE802.11 b/g/n)
Remote controlYes (Optional wired remote or via smartphone)No
Physical
Environmentally sealedNo
BatteryBattery Pack
Battery descriptionLithium-Ion NB-10L rechargeable battery & chargerLithium-Ion NB-6LH rechargeable battery & charger
Battery Life (CIPA)360230
Weight (inc. batteries)356 g (0.78 lb / 12.56 oz)217 g (0.48 lb / 7.65 oz)
Dimensions109 x 76 x 40 mm (4.29 x 2.99 x 1.57)100 x 59 x 29 mm (3.94 x 2.32 x 1.14)
Other features
Orientation sensorYes
Timelapse recordingYes (Star time-lapse movie)
GPSOptional
GPS notesvia mobile (linked to compatible smartphone)
76
I own it
45
I want it
25
I had it
Discuss in the forums
97
I own it
38
I want it
18
I had it
Discuss in the forums
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Comments

Total comments: 384
123
jose vu
By jose vu (8 months ago)

"Multiple creative shot modes such as the new Star mode, Background Defocus mode, and handheld HDR Scene" --> wow, copy too much from Sony???
Anyway, it is welcome, however I wish they update my S100 to have handheld HDR too ...

0 upvotes
cordellwillis
By cordellwillis (8 months ago)

Is this something Sony invented? No one in the world saw such a feature prior to Sony?

0 upvotes
Tan68
By Tan68 (8 months ago)

I don't think Sony was the first with HDR mode...

Don't help Sony be the new Apple.. owning everything before it was invented. :^)

0 upvotes
jose vu
By jose vu (8 months ago)

I only mean the "background defocus" feature from Sony, not the HDR :D

0 upvotes
vroger1
By vroger1 (8 months ago)

I was just about to write a friend about the fact that here we were at the tail end of August and Canon had not introduced its usual August upgrades -then I looked and here they were. Regrettably not including the one I had hoped for- an upgrade- lens wise to the G1X. The G1X is excellent except the lens is too slow. I recently took advantage of the reduced price on the EOS 6-but because of no EVF I use an OVF and only the 22mm prime (35mm EFL) and the images are excellent. With the G1X I use the v/f which follows the lens. Still I was hoping for an upgrade.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (8 months ago)

And we wonder why the camera industry is struggling. At these prices, I'd buy an entry-level DSLR, time-travel to the future, apply a particle reducer and have a great compact.

Comment edited 29 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
Tan68
By Tan68 (8 months ago)

Ehh. The scaled down, particle reducted SLR is a Pentax Q.

How about buy a compact, time-travel to the future, TARDIS it up a bit and have a great SLR.

1 upvote
whtchocla7e
By whtchocla7e (8 months ago)

As a prospective buyer of a compact camera, I'm not impressed with these offerings. The small sensor just doesn't appeal to me.

0 upvotes
dwl017
By dwl017 (8 months ago)

Buy the Canon EOS M or any of the many affordable M 4/3 cameras out now.

0 upvotes
vroger1
By vroger1 (8 months ago)

G!X sensor is fine.

0 upvotes
Len_Gee
By Len_Gee (8 months ago)

G2X is going to be announced soon.

0 upvotes
white shadow
By white shadow (8 months ago)

Forget the zoom. Just get the Ricoh GR and you will get excellent image quality in a pocket.

1 upvote
p ward
By p ward (8 months ago)

It might not impress on specs, but I wouldn't rule out the G16. I've had many compact cameras from Canon, Nikon and Olympus, including the large sensor G1x. Out of all of them, the Canon G15 is my current favorite. When I do serious work I lug my Nikon DSLRs, but when I want to travel light I grab the G15.

1 upvote
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Oh Canon, why isn't every announcement geared to entertain and excite gearheads on sites like this? You are such a useless company making products that sell to customers who only show up to DPReview the day before they actually buy the camera....or not at all and then go online later to write a review that goes something like "I didn't read any reviews or specs so when this camera didn't do what I thought it should do I was shocked and returned it." This is just another sign that Canon is falling behind the times, as long as "the times" refers to keeping 12 people happy with crazy new technologies that really make very little difference in taking a real picture and that normal consumers don't really notice anyway. Since when was "incremental" a four letter word? This could be "the day" back in which you just bought some crappy film camera that really wasn't updated every ten years much less one or two years.

7 upvotes
dwl017
By dwl017 (8 months ago)

Buy the Canon EOS M for $299 these new 1/1.7" sensor cameras are a joke and the price points are crazy to say the least.

8 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

is the sensor Canon or Casio?

0 upvotes
Heliconius
By Heliconius (8 months ago)

Apparently Canon profits more from selling Eos lenses to point and shooters.

0 upvotes
Photato
By Photato (8 months ago)

Nokia has a 41MP sensor. Canon decides 12MP is best for enthusiast Cameras.
Wonder who is right in regards to pixel density?

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

A few years ago Canon mercifully stopped the megapixel wars on its end and decided to concentrate on the quality of the pixels rather than the numbers. Maybe there was enough talk on camera sites like this about wanting decent high ISO images. The Nokia 41MP sensor has to bin those pixels in order to make an image that isn't garbage....along with all sorts of smoothing and noise reduction. The tiny lens and tiny sensor is not the same as making a 41MP full frame sensor then putting it behind a good lens.

0 upvotes
Photato
By Photato (8 months ago)

But Nokia doesn't have a full frame sensor nor the G16 lens is trash as you seem to imply. Also, nothing stop Canon to go the oversampling route in sensor design if they think that produces better image quality.

0 upvotes
Revenant
By Revenant (8 months ago)

For me, "enthusiast" means more physical controls, better build quality, a fast and sharp lens, manual exposure modes, the option to shoot raw and use accessories like flashes, filters and converters. I'd rather see an improvement of lens sharpness than more megapixels.

5 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Canon is doing what it thinks is best for image quality, and in terms of balancing noise, detail reproduction, color fidelity, etc. they are right. I didn't say the G16 lens was trash, I said the Nokia lens is tiny and the sensor is tiny. The G16 lens and sensor are enormous by comparison. Their full well capacity is much, much greater than the Nokia sensor pixels, which means a better S/N ratio no matter how good quantum efficiency happens to be. There is no reason to cram all those pixels in there because they would still have to combine them to end up with an image that isn't noisy garbage.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

> The Nokia 41MP sensor has to bin those pixels in order to make an image that isn't garbage....

you bin garbage into art, that's great. but
whatever in the art has to be in the garbage already.

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Cogent as always, yab.

Comment edited 12 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

maybe an over simplified claim but
lower the pixel quality, higher the image quality.

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Yes, we all know that's what you believe. You have plenty of tiny sensors with tiny pixels and giant MP counts to keep you busy until rapture.

0 upvotes
papillon_65
By papillon_65 (8 months ago)

"maybe an over simplified claim but
lower the pixel quality, higher the image quality."

Not only oversimplified but also incorrect, I don't suppose you noticed the release of the D800? My Nokia 808 takes better images downsampled to 8mp than many DSLR's.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

you don't have to downsample any image to make it better. downsampling always means lower image quality.

I know that many people have problem to tell the difference between pixel quality and image quality. even at DPReview they don't have a definition of image quality yet.

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
papillon_65
By papillon_65 (8 months ago)

You don't have to downsample but if you do it can make the image quality better, and in the case of the Nokia 808 it does, I take it you've used one? I'm guessing not otherwise you wouldn't have said
"downsampling always means lower image quality." which is a completely incorrect statement.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

Ah yabokkie, changing what you believe again to suit whatever thread you're trolling? Let me remind you what you've said:

(15/08) "I'm interested in image quality." "so you are talking about pixel quality. then, how you convert pixel quality to image quality? or you are not interested in image quality at all?"

But here you are talking only of 1:1 pixel quality and not of overall (like for like resolution) image quality? So which is it?

Comment edited 52 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

@papillon_65, as I said pixel is not image.

image is about subject and should be measured against a subject (that occupies a certain portion) in the frame, like the face of your kid which we call image but never pixel.

should be careful with pixel that you effectively increase pixel area when do downsampling, that you won't have a level ground to compare pixel qualities unless you define it first, like absolute size in sqmm (which tells sensor technology) or relative size in % or ppm sensor area (which translates straight into image quality).

a simple image quality comparison for pixel peepers may be pixel qualities of different sensors at a certain pixel count, like DxOMark SNR 18%-print figure (8 MPix).

Comment edited 6 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

> should be careful with pixel that you effectively increase pixel area when do downsampling, that you won't have a level ground to compare pixel qualities unless you define it first (like absolute size in sqmm or relative size in ppm sensor area (which translates straight into image quality).

What are you on about? You compare the image quality of different resolution images by downsizing both images to the same size, obviously.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

since the sensor area of 2/3" (Nokia Lumia 1020) is about 6.7% of D800, you may get about the same pixel quality at about 6.7% of pixel count or downsampling to 2.4 MP (to get the same pixel area of 23.8um2).

> by downsizing both images to the same size, obviously.

to the same pixel count.
I think that's one simple method most people can understand easily.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

The quickest way to have a neverending argument is to argue with a fool.

1 upvote
papillon_65
By papillon_65 (8 months ago)

Nokia spent 2 years and millions of pounds developing the Nokia 808, believing that downsampling is the way forward to improve image quality on a small sensor. Having seen the output at both 38mp and then 8/5/3 mp from the same sensor I happen to believe it was money well spent.
Now if you're talking about quality images as opposed to image quality then thats a different argument altogether.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

I don't mind fools nor hostility, but
would like to make DPReview a nice place for everyone.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

> who is right in regards to pixel density?

well Nokia "high" pixel count was mostly designed for tele reach using a fixed (aperture) lens, which is not the priority at Canon at the moment.

I expect most cameras will be somewhere between 40 and 160 MPs with possibly much more photo diodes or whatever on the sensor.

Comment edited 54 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

> since the sensor area of 2/3" (Nokia Lumia 1020) is about 6.7% of D800, you may get about the same pixel quality at about 6.7% of pixel count or downsampling to 2.4 MP (to get the same pixel area of 23.8um2).

But you're just pulling meaningless numbers out of thin air again. Look at the Canon 5D I at 12mp vs one of the new FF cameras at much higher resolution. By your logic the 5D I /must/ be better because it has a larger pixel area.

> to the same pixel count. I think that's one simple method most people can understand easily.

But just before that you said "downsampling always means lower image quality", which provably isn't true because if you take a modern FF camera and downsampled the image to 12mp it would be a lot better than the old 5D's image.

Either you genuinely believe that a ruler is the best way to determine image quality, or you are a tiresome troll who changes his views based on whatever makes an argument in a thread.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

@Andy Crowe

it's great that you think Canon make good progress over the years while many are complaining they cannot find it.

0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

@yabokkie so what you're saying is that a sensor with smaller pixel area but the same total light can produce better image quality? Because that's the opposite of "lower the pixel quantity, higher the image quality"...

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

what's the lowest pixel quality that you can think?

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Andy, yab believes that the smaller the pixel the greater the pixel quality. He believes that quantum efficiency trumps s/n ratio. He honestly believes that if you had a full frame sensor with 160MP you'd have the ultimate image....actually, he'd prefer every atom on the surface of the sensor be a pixel. Wavelength of light, full well capacity, and any other concern is meaningless. Smaller pixels are better, the end. I'd suggest you stop now before his perspective makes your brain melt and you end up drooling in a mental institution. Ever argue with a brick? Prepare yourself.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (8 months ago)

"said the Nokia lens is tiny and the sensor is tiny"

The sensor is actually bigger than the 1/1.7" in G16, if we are talking about Nokia 1020 (2/3"), and sensor in 808 is even bigger. f/2.2 optics is not too bad either.

0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

yabokkie what does "lowest pixel quality" actually mean? do you mean pixel quantity? because that actually makes more sense for what you said before.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

@Andy Crowe
say how about a full well depth of 1?
that would make a perfect sensor right?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Told ya. He don't get that you'd just as likely have one e of noise as one e of signal.

Comment edited 13 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

@yabokkie I'm not quite sure what you're arguing about because you're the one who said "lower the pixel quality, higher the image quality". Did you mean pixel quantity (less mp)? Do you just say random things?

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

basically image SNR should have nothing to do with pixel count but technically we have benefits and costs, that we are likely to make profit in both image quality and potentially manufacturing cost going more pixels (photodiodes).

that's why we need the "MP race."

it's not random. the current sensor technology favors more pixels, the more the better, but things may change (the way we make sensors may change dramatically before we can go beyond hundreds of MPs).

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

Ah, right, ok but you do realise saying "lower pixel quality, higher image quality" makes no sense and is pretty much still the opposite of that. Higher pixel count can lead to better image quality, but it also need to be coupled with higher pixel quality to avoid being too noisy or too narrow DR.

0 upvotes
justmeMN
By justmeMN (8 months ago)

A nice incremental upgrade of models that still sell well. That's what most companies do.

Perhaps they will do a G 2X or S1 X in the future, although the EOS M series may have pushed the G X sensor out of the lineup.

0 upvotes
photoguy622
By photoguy622 (8 months ago)

I still miss the GPS from the S100, but the f/1.8 is a nice upgrade.

The rest of these "upgrades" seem minimal at best.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

faster frame rate at 9-12 fps is good.

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (8 months ago)

Just goes to show the engineering marvel that is the RX100/M2 if other manufacturers are still putting smaller sensors in larger bodies, without flipscreens or hotshoes.

7 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

That's a joke, right?

4 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

> still putting smaller sensors in larger bodies

at least,
G16 and S120 don't get smaller sensors in larger bodies than
G15 and S110, so things are not getting worse.

GH3 and G6 are.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (8 months ago)

S120 is actually a little bigger compared to S110.

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

The RX100Mk2 is larger than the original which itself was larger than any of the Canon S models... The difference isn't monumental but the RX100Mk2 is now thick enough so as not to fit into some of the pockets that the S line can fit into... I imagine it's got more to do with the swivel display and the hotshoe than the sensor size tho.

The RX100s also pack shorter lenses...

There's definitely room for improvement on the S110/120 form factor even if you ignore sensor size though. Panasonic's LF1 is just about the same size and it packs in an EVF plus a longer 200mm lens that still starts at f/2. Maybe Sony will get really gutsy and release a slimmed down RX90 or something at one point...

It sure doesn't look like any of the other manufacturers wanna compete with the RX100 tho.

0 upvotes
Alex Riley
By Alex Riley (8 months ago)

The rest of you might want to disparage the G16 but I am delighted with what I have read about it. I had intended to upgrade my (still excellent) G9 to a G15, but the one thing holding me back was its use of Digic 5. I have an S100 which I use underwater and that has Digic 5, but its AF seriously struggles in low light. Digic 6 is apparently much better.
The fact that this is a minhor upgrade gives me confidence that there will be minimal teething problems.
The RX100 is a fine camera but does not match my requirements. Bang on about snsor size if you must, but I get results which satisfy me with my G9. And flip-out screens aren't much use under water!

2 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (8 months ago)

They claim Digic 6 is 43% better. If G15 is struggling, then G16 will be struggling, just a little less.

0 upvotes
p ward
By p ward (8 months ago)

I'm fan of the G15 but agree that the new processor will a big benefit. Even better low-light performance, quicker response and finally 1080 HD at frame rates faster than 24fps.

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Potemkin_Photo
By Potemkin_Photo (8 months ago)

$550 for a G16 when you can get the, EOS-M with wide lense, flash, and a much bigger sensor for $350?! Are you freaking kidding me? Whatcha be smokin Canon?

2 upvotes
SHood
By SHood (8 months ago)

The G1X in was selling for $479 on this past weekend in Canada. I would take that over the G15.

2 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (8 months ago)

It is an interesting comparison. If you don't mind slow focusing, you can get much higher image quality and much closer focusing for much less money.

Comment edited 21 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
David Hurt
By David Hurt (8 months ago)

Heck, I just bought a G15 the end of December - sure NOT going to upgrade to the G16 - & I could care less about Wi-Fi. I now use my G15 more than I do my 50D. However, I will note that the G15 does a Great job with Hi-Def video.
And, I kept my G7 - as it is still working good & who knows when I or someone in my family might need a camera?

0 upvotes
Jeff Peterman
By Jeff Peterman (8 months ago)

The change to a manual flash mechanism is a big improvement on the S camera. With my S110, there have been too many times that I've turned the camera on with my finger near the top of the flash, and this caused an error as the flash tried to pop up at startup.

1 upvote
beavertown
By beavertown (8 months ago)

Get the V1.

G16 is pointless and expensive.

0 upvotes
_sem_
By _sem_ (8 months ago)

I was considering a V1 as a P&S replacement. But it is too big (with lens) and has no built-in flash.
Erhm, what was the starting price of the V1?

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (8 months ago)

LOL a V1, wouldn't be caught dead with that ugly thing.

1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (8 months ago)

Fight - Canon G16 vs Panasonic LF1.

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

They're not really the same class of camera... S120 vs LF1 (no contest IMO, get the older S if you're pinching pennies tho) or LX7 vs G16 would be more appropriate.

0 upvotes
Joe Talks Photo Gear
By Joe Talks Photo Gear (8 months ago)

great cameras in their time! Even a 1" sensor would make these both SO MUCH BETTER!

6 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (8 months ago)

And that lens would have made this camera bigger and more expensive.

2 upvotes
Jeff Peterman
By Jeff Peterman (8 months ago)

I chose the S110 over the Sony equivalent NOT just because of price: the large sensor in the Sony made it bigger AND meant that the lens couldn't go as wide.

0 upvotes
Northgrove
By Northgrove (8 months ago)

The RX100's compact form despite the sensor took a serious toll on its brightness. f/1,8 sounds great, but it rapidly slows down to an awkward f/4,9. The RX100 doesn't just have good high ISO performance as a bonus, it has it as a requirement. I love the form factor and the RX100 performance in general, but I can't help but feel a bit uncomfortable with its zoomed-in performance.

How does this relate to your comment? I'm just saying that a 1" sensor with a f/1.8-2.8 lens would be... not pocketable at all.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
mosc
By mosc (8 months ago)

I don't get this. It's a 28mm f1.8 prime. You love it? Me too! Now, they added some standard and short tele range to it! For free! Wasn't that nice of em? You say it doesn't have that fast an F-stop and that's a negative? I mean, adjusted for sensor size it's pretty comprable at 100mm to anything else in it's size range. Seems decent enough. But none of those shoot 1" 28mm f1.8, now do they?

0 upvotes
DELETED88781
By DELETED88781 (8 months ago)

History

1 upvote
Marvol
By Marvol (8 months ago)

So Sony announced the RX100 in June 2012 (MRSP $650). It got rave reviews (except here on DPR) and cornered (created?) the market for high-end compacts.
Only 1 year later, Sony followed this up with the mkII (MRSP $750), with a redesigned sensor, flipout screen, hotshoe, WiFi and NFC. I call that innovation and improvement.

Canon's G15 was announced in Sept 2012 (MRSP never mentioned by DPR, but $499). It dropped the flipout screen that its predecessor had.
It got a Gold award here on DPR and kept a top-2 spot in the 'manual control' compact market (although I think Nikon gained a lot on Canon with their Coolpix... whatever the number).
Just under 1 year later, Canon follows this up with the G16 (MRSP $550), with the same sensor, same screen, same no NFC. Only WiFi was added.

I draw my conclusions from this, and it's not looking good for Canon. you can only stand still for so long before people stop buying your products just for the badge.

19 upvotes
Marvol
By Marvol (8 months ago)

What I find especially interesting is that Sony added all these features for only $100 price increase, where Canon charges $50 for the mere inclusion of WiFi.

13 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (8 months ago)

The big thing you are missing- Canon sells a hell of a lot more cameras than Sony does, still does, and will continue too. Bang on about Sony all you want, but the G series have dominated for over a decade. I've got a G15 and RX100M2 and I find that even with the larger sensor of the Sony the G15 with its MUCH faster lens still makes it the better all rounder for a camera of its size and weight.

Apparently the better sales of Canon cameras show that I'm not alone in that thinking. The Sony is nice, has very nice sensor image quality but its lens isn't as good and it's price is some 50% higher.

5 upvotes
Marvol
By Marvol (8 months ago)

Is that true for the G15 against the RX100 though?

Given that the price of the RX100 has hardly dropped in over a year (only now dropping to under $550 via one specialist deal retailer) makes me think Sony are selling plenty, even if they might be selling fewer units than the G15.

In the end these two cameras are not really head-to-head though, but my point was to illustrate the different approaches - which I really believe sooner rather than later will start to hurt Canon.

0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (8 months ago)

All this talk about sales numbers and nothing substantial to back it up. Before you mention Amazon as a source, the US as a whole account for less than 13% of all camera sales (thus rather non information) but if you must, Amazon.com currently shows the RX100 II outselling the G15.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

So Canon announced the G1 X in January 2012 (MRSP $800). It got rave reviews (from almost every actual owner) and created the market for high-end compacts.
Only 1.5 years later, Canon still had the only compact fixed lens camera with a near APS-C sensor (1.9X) now at $599, with the same killer sensor, flipout screen, hotshoe, lens. I call that getting it right the first time.

People still think the G15 was the main RX100 competitor in order to feel better about their Sony. The G15 still led the pack for consumer cameras in its class.

Just under 1 year later, Canon follows this up with the G16 (MRSP $550), with the same sensor, same screen, same no NFC. Only WiFi was added. NFC being the most useless feature one could possibly put on a camera, we're all glad they left that off.

I draw my conclusions from this, and it's looking awesome for Canon. You can alter your reality to make things appear to stand still for so long before people stop listening to a word you have to say.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
wlad
By wlad (8 months ago)

@howardroark ever heard of the Fujifilm X100 that came out one year before the G1X ? ..oh, and it's AF actually worked, unlike G1X's

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

You mean that camera that came out a year before the G1 X that cost $1,200? A full $400 more than the G1 X MSRP? No, what's that? Does it look like a blast from the 1960's? Does it also have a fixed lens with an equivalent focal length of 35mm? If that's the one I can't understand why it didn't take over the world and rule from Mount Olympus. Goofball.

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (8 months ago)

1/1.7" (7.44 x 5.58 mm)

Lets see how long Canon will keep squeezzing and wringing this sensor on the GXX series...

Elvis has left the building a long time ago...

.

11 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

it's easy to know that a 1/1.7" sensor's capacity (kinda full well depth for the sensor) at ISO80 is about the same as ISO1600 on 35mm format.

we also know that largest aperture air-glass lens that can be made for it is about the same as f/2.3 on 35mm format (equivalent photographic effect, which is comfortably faster than f/1.4 on 4/3").

in real we may have f/0.7 lens for 1/1.7" sensor which is f/3.2 equiv. or faster than most 4/3" primes.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

yabokkie you complain about m4/3 glass being too slow compared to full frame lenses, and now you're complaining that m4/3 glass is too slow compared to a f0.7 1/1.7" lens that will never ever exist? You really are obsessed aren't you.

3 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

But what about APS? That f4-5.6 lens is actually (according to your logic) only f6.2-8.7, what a rip-off!. And this camera? f8-13. That means it should be worth about 50 pence right?

Or is the whole idea behind your comments to troll with made-up lenses?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

all APS-C DSLRs should die before m4/3" does,
but I won't mind if m4/3" (and Samsung NX) die earlier
to make way for a better mount.

some APS-C mirrorless mounts are okay especially
Sony NEX and Canon EF-M. think they will have future.

EF-S 55-250/4-5.6 ~= 88-400/6.4-9 equiv.
M.ZD 40-150/4-5.6 ~= 78-294/7.8-11 equiv.

EF-S lenses are near 0.6 stops faster at the same f-number.

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

Wow f6.4-f9 is pretty bad, I bet a FF lens 100-400mm f6.4-9 would only cost around $150, you'd better hurry along to the comments section of the new Canon lens to tell everyone! Except you wont because your intention is to troll, not make useful comments.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

> a FF lens 100-400mm f6.4-9 would only cost around $150

could you explain how you got it?

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Because lenses that slow are cheap junk.

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

> lenses that slow are cheap junk

good point though bad answer.
cheap junk that makers can use to cheat customers.

0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

> could you explain how you got it?

The same way you come up your lens prices yabokkie. The Canon FF 75-300mm costs $200, add a third for the extra reach and it comes to $270, then half that because APS has half the total light and you get $135.

You see how silly you're being when you do that yabokkie?

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

then how would you calc the worth of mZD40-150?

Comment edited 21 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Andy....no, when he does it there is logic behind it. When you do the same thing and he doesn't like it, you must be dumb. Headline I read on The Onion yesterday: "Seemingly Mentally Ill Internet Commenter Presumably Functions In Outside World." Seemed relevant.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

btw,
> add a third for the extra reach
for telephoto lenses of similar design, aperture area is good enough to make an estimation since at a certain f-number (like f/5.6 for zooms) longer the lens larger the aperture area (it's not linear but square, but we can talk about "value" later).

also for different focal length and f-number, the price ratio of 400/2.8 and 600/4 equals to the ratio of their aperture area.

@howardroark, would you do me a favor please. I wouldn't want to see people go mad.

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (8 months ago)

You see, here's the thing yabokkie. If it's a brand you like then the only thing that matters is "image quality" but if it's a brand you don't like then what matters is "pixel size" or "total light". If it's a lens brand you don't like then what matters is that it's "too slow" compared to FF and you calculate a value by quartering the price of a cheap FF lens, if it's a brand you do like then you either forgive its slowness, complain you can't simply calculate the value based on other lenses and even create an impossible f0.7 version of a lens so that somehow it can still be faster than m4/3.

You're clearly trolling yabokkie, seriously cut it out.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

I don't think he's trolling, Andy. I think he really is just that stupid.

0 upvotes
_Federico_
By _Federico_ (8 months ago)

Boring, pointless products.

20 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

They may be boring, but I'm pretty sure the point is to take pictures not give you a techno-erection.

6 upvotes
utomo99
By utomo99 (8 months ago)

Now instead of buying the Canon S120. I might consider to buy panasonic LF1.
Especially when the price going down.

I wish Canon releasing better products.

Comment edited 20 seconds after posting
9 upvotes
digitri
By digitri (8 months ago)

My thought exactly. LF1 might be much more of an upgrade to S110 than the S120 is.

3 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

To me it's a no brainer, either get the LF1 over the S120 or get the S110 if you wanna save yourself $100+... I went with the former, rather glad I didn't wait around for the S120 announcement. The S110 is still a solid buy for $350 or less tho.

0 upvotes
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (8 months ago)

And they expect people to buy these at prices near RX100.....now that they're easier to connect to social networking sites.

Annoyingly, Canon is really taking their time.

12 upvotes
_sem_
By _sem_ (8 months ago)

Well, people are free to buy whatever they fancy. As for the RX100, some lack the viewfinder, the closeup ability, and a brighter lens towards the long end. Canon's got the G1X too if you want a large sensor.

1 upvote
_Federico_
By _Federico_ (8 months ago)

Oh yeah! The fantastic G1X.... A real pleausure to shoot with. Canon should take a little time to study the last Sony's cameras....

3 upvotes
Babya
By Babya (8 months ago)

Did you forget to mention focus peaking for MF for the S120 and G16.

Canon EU lists it but not Canon US:
http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_Camera/PowerShot/PowerShot_G16/index.aspx

1 upvote
P@l
By P@l (8 months ago)

Hmm ... something is missing from your news about Canon press release

notably POWERSHOT S200 - little brother to PS120 ... but with 10 megapixel CCD instead and older Digic 5 processor. It drops also RAW but retains most other stuff ... more

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20130822_612049.html

Someone below already mentioned it is supposedly Japan only product ... but still it warrants being listed as new Canon product ...

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
mjdundee
By mjdundee (8 months ago)

Hmm... this sounds very promissing.
A S95 with 24 -120 zoom and jpg only - was an instant buy for me.
What exactly does the dc.watch japaese site say?

0 upvotes
P@l
By P@l (8 months ago)

Basic specs for PowerShot S-200

* same 10.1M CCD sensor (or similar) as S-95
* 5 x zoom starting at 24-120mm f2.0-5.9
* Digic-5 processor (S95- has already Digic-4)
* AF speed as fast as 0.2sec
* same body style as S-120 (incl. manual flash release button)
* built-in Wi-Fi
* lower LCD screen resolution at 460.000 dots (and no touch screen if I am correct)
* battery life 200 shots
* body color variation - black or white

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
NIK11
By NIK11 (8 months ago)

Other Review sites are reporting the G16/S120 as having a new BSI sensor with claimed improvements to DR/low light.

If correct, could it be the Sony sensor and why haven't DPRE mentioned this?

0 upvotes
_sem_
By _sem_ (8 months ago)

Doesn't the G15 already use a sensor made by Sony, also found in some cameras of other makers?
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Canon-PowerShot-G15-review-Have-Canon-got-the-balance-right/Comparisons

1 upvote
NIK11
By NIK11 (8 months ago)

No. According to DXO (and others), G15 uses a Canon homespun CMOS. Same for S100/110. No mention of BSI or Sony.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Dougbm_2
By Dougbm_2 (8 months ago)

Well Canon decided with the G15 to ditch the swivel screen just as Nikon took up the idea. Anyway I think this look good. Bright lens and with decent reach. Can't overrule the laws of physics. If only they could make the OVF 95% or have a decent Evf. I had wonderful images out of my G11 but it was poor in low light. This should be much better.

0 upvotes
Babya
By Babya (8 months ago)

Like the finish on the S120-reminds of old film cameras grips.

0 upvotes
Mikhail Tal
By Mikhail Tal (8 months ago)

Typical Canon - use the same sensor over and over and over and over...

13 upvotes
Rick Knepper
By Rick Knepper (8 months ago)

People keep buying them. Why not?

0 upvotes
KW Phua
By KW Phua (8 months ago)

Sony also use RX100 sensor for the new model.

1 upvote
cgarrard
By cgarrard (8 months ago)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The sensor and lens combination in the G15/16 are what are important, if you haven't used one- zip it.

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Yeah, because back in the film days nobody ever bought the same Kodak Gold 400 from Wal-Mart for ten years in a row. You're a spoiled brat.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
M Jesper
By M Jesper (8 months ago)

S120 controls unchanged? The buttons are huge ! That, or the camera is smaller, and/or the screen is bigger. The screen border that is, which makes sense for a touchscreen.

Just checked, the S110 is actually 99 x 59 x 27 mm (3.9 x 2.32 x 1.06″). Actual LCD image area still 3″.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

Going by the specs, the display size is the same and the S110 already had a touchscreen so nothing should have changed on that end... They did make the S120 slightly larger, but it's a very slight increase...

The buttons do look bigger on it tho, I think it's a combination of a slightly larger circumference (look like there's barely no space between them) and the fact that they're now bulbous/raised, they used to be very flat and almost sunk like a millimeter into the body.

They should be easier to press, dunno that it'll make much of a difference since you'd usually be looking at those buttons when pressing them anyway... I guess it helps those with fat fingers.

0 upvotes
Rbrt
By Rbrt (8 months ago)

.. and the hinged LCD is gone from the G series once again.

1 upvote
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

The G7, G9, and G10 didn't have the articulating LCD either. Canon apparently goes through these phases. With 12 G cameras, that makes 5/12ths of the line missing that feature.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Rbrt
By Rbrt (8 months ago)

Too bad. It's a great feature. Think about how these cameras are used. Parades, crowd events in general, where you can hold the thing up over the heads in front of you and get yourself a great shot. Don't know why they keep playing peek-a-boo with it.

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

So you'll buy the G1 X. You should buy the G1 X anyway. I guess these do focus faster, but still.

0 upvotes
Hachu21
By Hachu21 (8 months ago)

Are those locked to iso100 when manual exposure time is set >1s (like g15 and s110)???

0 upvotes
springsnow
By springsnow (8 months ago)

I have mixed feelings about these Canon. I like Canon cameras in general. Love my S100. I was hoping that the S120 would be priced more aggressively, although I guess Canon can still get away with charging $450 simply because Sony is charging $650 for the RX100.

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

I don't know, Panasonic's DMC-LF1 is the same size but it has a longer 200mm lens that starts at f/2, and it has a sweep pano mode, and an EVF, and better battery life, etc... LF1's $50 more if you go by MSRP, I thought it was slightly overpriced compared to a $350+ S110 and the RX100, so that would make the mildly refreshed S120 very overpriced.

2 upvotes
JEROME NOLAS
By JEROME NOLAS (8 months ago)

But they love it in Japan! Who will say this first?

0 upvotes
M Jesper
By M Jesper (8 months ago)

They love a lot of things there, it can be very inappropriate.

1 upvote
Babya
By Babya (8 months ago)

G16 also has peaking in MF mode, it seems :
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/dcam/lineup/powershot/g16/feature-mode.html

No mention of a peaking function on Canon USA's site.

0 upvotes
Hannu108
By Hannu108 (8 months ago)

techradar preview says:

"Manual Focus Peaking has been introduced for the first time in a Canon compact camera. It's a technology that has existed in Canon's range of video cameras before, and we have seen it from other manufacturers fairly recently. The sensitivity of focus peaking can also be set depending on how strong you want it to be. Different colours can also be set, which can be useful depending on the subject you're shooting."

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/compact-cameras/canon-g16-1174629/review

0 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (8 months ago)

Leaving behing the (potential) 1200 negative comments about these new compact cameras releases I still wonder about Canon's Marketing tactics. So: G16, small sensor, NO weather sealing, NO L glass. Is this a possible "niche", dear Canon MKT? NOBODY has a "PRO" (and people, please don't give me the Sony RX100 crap argument, under heavy rain/dust it will be worthless), relatively light weight compact that can be taken to a short mountain trip. And please don't tell me that this "will eat the DSLRs lunch" because it will NOT - you will never do the same thing with the 7D and the G16, you know... Even so, having a "PRO" (weather sealed, body AND lens) compact with a high performance sensor as a second body can be a compelling solution for photographers that don't want to carry a ton of photo equipment, in addition to the specific mountain (or jungle, swamp etc) gear. Why not? Can you do this for, let's say, 800 USD/EUR? Cheers! :) P.S.: please don't forget about the 7D II in the process...

1 upvote
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

No fixed lens camera will have L glass because it has to be weather sealed and Canon wouldn't waste their money weather sealing a consumer camera like this unless it was one of their watertight models. If you want a waterproof G16 you'll have to buy the housing. You want a "pro" sensor buy the G1 X. And as for the G16 sensor size, compared to most other consumer p&s cameras on the market, it is freaking enormous.

0 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (8 months ago)

Well, you will have to look in the past: there WAS such a compact... produced by Canon. Cheers! :)

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

Ah yes, the second coming of Christ known as the Pro1. Call it what you will, it wasn't weather sealed and neither was the body. It's like calling the close focusing distance on a point and shoot "macro". No doubt it did have many features common to L lenses and it was probably the greatest thing since sliced bread on a fixed lens camera. The G series, especially the G1 X, is the closest you're going to get to the old Pro days.

0 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (8 months ago)

Unfortunately, yes. But, that's my point: why not? Why not to take the G1 X, for instance, and make a true "pocket battleship" (to quote Michael Reichman)? Cheers! :)

0 upvotes
Babya
By Babya (8 months ago)

Also announced is the PowerShot S200-using a CCD sensor:
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/dcam/lineup/powershot/s200/spec.html

Not covered here yet as it's only a Japan-only release for now.

0 upvotes
springsnow
By springsnow (8 months ago)

I saw that. It's very weird. Did Canon just have too many of the S95 sensors leftover or something? Plus the model numbering, S200, kinda makes it sounds like it's an upper end model compared to the S120, yet it has only Digic 5. Really weird. It's like a time paradox happening.

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

probably they got clearance sale from Pana at a good price,
and Digic 5 from somewhere I don't know.

should be good if at a low price (USD 200 something?)
if you think this is the sensor used in LX7.

0 upvotes
P@l
By P@l (8 months ago)

Actually the price is listed as $ 350 (¥ 34.980) for PS200 while the PS 120 is set by Canon at $ 500 (¥49.980). They will be both slightly cheaper at retail.

1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (8 months ago)

yabokkie, LX7 uses Sony 12 mpix CMOS sensor, not the old CCD in S200.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (8 months ago)

@peevee1, sorry my bad.

0 upvotes
Rod McD
By Rod McD (8 months ago)

I'm still using my G12 and G1X. The G15 & 16 offer a brighter lens than the G12, but I'm not yet persuaded to part with it. There's no news here re any developments to their larger-sensor compact cameras like the G1X and EOS M. I'll be interested to see what emerges later in the year.......

2 upvotes
tutek
By tutek (8 months ago)

I have the G11, I will replace it just because of poor video 640x480, but certainly not with the Canon because it has no swivel screen. Is Canon has not seen the new sony rx 100 ii? Unreasonable ...

0 upvotes
vladimir314
By vladimir314 (8 months ago)

I have also G11 and use swivel display permanently. On G16 it can be replaced by smartphone remote control features, I hope?? E.g. for macros of flowers near ground etc.

0 upvotes
straylightrun
By straylightrun (8 months ago)

Thank you for not including an articulating screen! Bravo, Canon.

10 upvotes
Murphster
By Murphster (8 months ago)

Good to see that they finally have handheld HDR.

1 upvote
_sem_
By _sem_ (8 months ago)

The G15 does have HDR. Not much use though, all auto.

0 upvotes
Murphster
By Murphster (8 months ago)

The G15 did not have Handheld HDR like the G16 does.

0 upvotes
SRT3lkt
By SRT3lkt (8 months ago)

this thing should be called "G15.1".

14 upvotes
tutek
By tutek (8 months ago)

Looks more like a G9 mk ii, Canon is so far behind the competition

6 upvotes
Babya
By Babya (8 months ago)

Canon Japan page says the S120 has a peaking function in MF focus mode:
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fcweb.canon.jp%2Fcamera%2Fdcam%2Flineup%2Fpowershot%2Fs120%2Ffeature-mode.html

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

Interesting, who would really bother with MF often enough on an S120 as to make it relevant tho? It does have touchscreen tho so I imagine focus pulling with it can be pretty easy.

0 upvotes
Vinc T
By Vinc T (8 months ago)

Obviously, Canon made a mistake here!

G16 should have a fully articulating screen, but not G17.

Waiting for the G2X...

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
photo nuts
By photo nuts (8 months ago)

Seriously, why will anyone buy these cameras when the Sony RX100 is out there?

22 upvotes
Northgrove
By Northgrove (8 months ago)

I think it may see some popularity for the same reason that the Panasonic Lumix LX7 gained such positive criticism, despite often being compared to the RX100 as well. Photography is a lot about light. And this camera is 1,5 f-stops faster than the RX100/II in the long end, which in turn is even longer than the one of the RX100.

IF they have a good sensor to present here, good optics, this one could be interesting. BUT there is of course a lot of added pressure on that performance when they're using a smaller sensor.

However, I think it would be foolish to deny the positive effects from f/2,8 at 140mm. The smaller sensor will no doubt present worse results than that of the RX100, but at this focal length, it's on the other hand making its ISO 800 compete with the RX100's ISO 2000, or ISO 1600 with RX100 @ ISO 4000.

Yes, it won't be any bokeh master, but for those where that matters, this could work as a pretty interesting secondary camera.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
parubok
By parubok (8 months ago)

Price?
Camera size?

3 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (8 months ago)

It must be a virus. There's no way that the G15/16 could have benefits over a Sony camera. They all must have the zombie virus or something.

This is a question you could have answered yourself if you weren't trying to drum up sales for Sony.

4 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (8 months ago)

cg, I disagree. I believe that once the RX100 came out all other camera makers should have quit since the existence of the perfect camera makes all others obsolete. It is empirically better than all other cameras in existence. Sony should rule the world with their divine guidance proven by the existence of the RX100. All hail Sony.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
onlooker
By onlooker (8 months ago)

Parubok wrote: "Camera size"?

You mean you would rather buy a much larger camera with poorer IQ?

http://camerasize.com/compare/#474,467

1 upvote
cgarrard
By cgarrard (8 months ago)

hr- lol ;)

0 upvotes
jbwong
By jbwong (8 months ago)

terrible line up against RX100 series

13 upvotes
Mark B.
By Mark B. (8 months ago)

The RX100 is in a different league with the 1" sensor.

2 upvotes
wlad
By wlad (8 months ago)

@Mark B.
Different league, but same price.
This new model will cost the same as the original RX100.
And it's obvious which of these two cameras provides better image quality and features.

4 upvotes
Mark B.
By Mark B. (8 months ago)

Of course the original RX100 price dropped, it's been replaced - the II retails for $750. The G16 is retailing for $450 at B&H. BTW, the original RX100 is retailing for $600 at B&H - that's not the same to me.

1 upvote
keeponkeepingon
By keeponkeepingon (8 months ago)

I was one of the canon faithful (Y2K S100, SD780, S95, 300HS, S100 owner) but I think I'll be moving on now.

It may be silly for the purist here but I'm pretty upset that there is still no auto/sweep panorama mode. I've played with the competition and it's really really nice to be able to make a pano on the fly.

Gosh even my iphone can make a nice panoramic image and because of that I would often use my iphone even though I'm carrying my S100.

Like everyone else, I'm a bit disappointed in the lack any innovation here, especially in regards to the sensor. I can stomach that on a P&S for FB/email snaps but I can't stomach having to spend time in PP just to get a little bit wider.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
5 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

Yeah I dunno why Canon seems to steadfastly refuse to copy that feature... Everyone else has, so it can't be a patent issue.

0 upvotes
Arn
By Arn (8 months ago)

Yes, these are unbelievably boring releases from Canon. Not even a tilt LCD for the G16. There's a company in decline, I have to say (as a Canon user myself)

9 upvotes
Nipan_51
By Nipan_51 (8 months ago)

It looks like image quality has reached its ceiling

1 upvote
Total comments: 384
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