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Just posted: Our Canon EOS 70D hands-on preview

By dpreview staff on Jul 2, 2013 at 04:00 GMT
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Just posted: Our hands-on preview of Canon's latest mid-range SLR, the EOS 70D. From the outside it looks very similar to the EOS 60D, but on the inside it sports a brand-new 'Dual Pixel CMOS AF' sensor that promises much-improved focusing in live view and movie mode. It also borrows most of the best bits of Canon's existing SLRs, including the AF module from the EOS 7D, the articulated touchscreen from the EOS 700D, and built-in Wi-Fi from the EOS 6D. In our detailed preview we take a closer look, and try to get to grips with its innovative sensor technology.

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Comments

Total comments: 359
12
oselimg
By oselimg (9 months ago)

If this camera doesn't bring my slippers, make me breakfast in the morning it's boring, yawn. What was Canon thinking for god's sake!!! I want 42 inch EVF which will work in absolute darkness. Puh!!! optical viewfinder. Boooriiinnnng. I don't want anything that will potentially leave me in a compromising position to justify myself amongst my gear head, techno-junkie local photography society friends. Why, why!!!

9 upvotes
TheDman
By TheDman (9 months ago)

+100. I need a sensor that defies the laws of physics and produces 20 stops of dynamic range so I can shoot my below average crap!

6 upvotes
carrigman
By carrigman (9 months ago)

My sentiments exactly. It's actually quite funny reading some of the nit-picking going on here. I strongly suspect that were we to see a sample of the work of those photographers we would be very underwhelmed indeed. When I was young and impressionable I recall being awestruck by a man who was an expert on everything Nikon. He could tell the year of manufacture from the serial number of a lens. He could explain the detailed workings of the Nikon F Photomic head. He was a gear expert to his fingertips. Then I saw a sample of his work. Oh boy, what a disappointment. He totally lacked a photographic eye. Ever since I have been suspicious of photographers who appear to be experts on the finer details of the technology. My view, until proved otherwise (and it rarely is), is that they are compensating for lack of an artistic sense.

3 upvotes
Michael Pardee
By Michael Pardee (9 months ago)

Amateurs need all the technological help they can get. I struggle with clipped highlights on my 60D while trying to minimize noise. I struggle taking pictures of animals at dusk that don't look like noisy crap. Sometimes the autofocus misses on the one shot where my kid was smiling nicely.

Lots of amateurs have more money than they do time to perfect the art of photography, and are willing to shell out big bucks for a camera that will improve their pictures. If you don't need every advantage you can get, great, be happy with 5 year old cameras that are "more than good enough for any pro" and hope that Canon's DSLR division still turns a profit.

1 upvote
Keith Reeder
By Keith Reeder (9 months ago)

"Lots of amateurs have more money than they do time to perfect the art of photography, and are willing to shell out big bucks for a camera that will improve their pictures."

So buy a 1DX and stop bitching.

3 upvotes
SlickBK
By SlickBK (9 months ago)

Man, I just bought a 7D which I got a huge discount on($959). Do you folks think it is worth returning it and purchasing the 70D? I guess we might need to see how the image quality is with this new technology.

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (9 months ago)

Depends on what things you want in a camera. Frankly, I'd much rather have the touch screen, built-in WiFi, and dual pixel AF sensor of the 70D. Conservative-minded (ie, close-minded) photographers may look upon these features as pointless gimmicks, but I think these features are going to be in-demand standard equipment on all DSLRs moving forward. We now live in a touchscreen, WiFi-connected, Live View focusing world, and we should expect nothing less from our DSLRs.

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

I'd like to have 70D.
the image quality is much bettery.

1 upvote
carrigman
By carrigman (9 months ago)

SlickBK: why on earth would you want to change your just purchased 7D? It is an outstanding camera and the IQ is superb. Do you seriously think you'd see an improvement in IQ in the 70D? You won't.

1 upvote
Juck
By Juck (9 months ago)

My 7D was a complete dog,,, AF tracking was useless,,, sensor was just blah,,, was so bad I ended up going back to an old 1DIII, the camera I sold to buy the 7D in the first place. Get the 70D,, better video,, better sensor ,,, lightweight,, articulated touchscreen,, wifi,,, better hi ISO performance (could hardly be any worse than 7D). No brainer.

1 upvote
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

Definitely depends on what you want to shoot. Do you like CF or SD? Do you like the separate AF joystick, and more functional but complicated 7D buttons? Do you mind the heavier weight? Do you need the extra fps? Do you shoot a lot with LiveView or Video? Do you shoot odd angles where a tilt screen is useful? Are you really going to use WiFi?

0 upvotes
Keith Reeder
By Keith Reeder (9 months ago)

"I'd like to have 70D.
the image quality is much bettery."

Bollocks. There's no indication that this is true.

And if you can't get OUTSTANDING results from the 7D at any ISO (Juck), it's not the camera...

0 upvotes
Juck
By Juck (9 months ago)

Poor Keith,, I have 150k+ shots through 7D bodies,,, you got nothing. 7D is a polished turd.

1 upvote
Jefftan
By Jefftan (9 months ago)

"The big unknown right now is image quality - the 70D uses a 20.2MP sensor but the image is formed from 40.3M photodiodes, which is a lot to fit onto an APS-C chip."

not just noise, what about diffraction

0 upvotes
Jefftan
By Jefftan (9 months ago)

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography-2.htm

diffraction start at F5.7

stupid idea from Canon

0 upvotes
Lee Jay
By Lee Jay (9 months ago)

Diffraction is not affected by pixel size. Why can't people get that obvious fact through their heads?

11 upvotes
irmo
By irmo (9 months ago)

point of view ...

If you have 100Mpixel senzor you are awayting that all 100Mpixels will be sharp. Why else to have 100Mpixel senzor?

So yes the more Mpixel you have than more difraction will be visible at full size view, becouse you zoom it more.

Ofcorse that a picture from 100Mpixel senzor and 10Mpixel senzor will have same difraction at same size view. ;). So ofcorse that 70D will have same difraction as any other 20Mpixel APS-C camera ;).

0 upvotes
Lee Jay
By Lee Jay (9 months ago)

So, you always print or display according to the pixel count in the frame? Odd....you're the only person I know of that does that.

2 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

There are more reasons than resolution for more MP.

However, if you can get sharper images below f/6 and just as good above, would you trade in your sensor that gets lower resolution images at all apertures?

1 upvote
lightsculpture
By lightsculpture (9 months ago)

The dual photodiodes collect light from a pixel which is the same size as a pixel in a 20mpx sensor. The diffraction characteristics should be the the same or better than any 20mpx APS-C sensor.

2 upvotes
cheddargav
By cheddargav (9 months ago)

Videographers continue to be spoilt by Canon...

No dual card slots is disappointing

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (9 months ago)

For videographers, it's not the dual card slots that's disappointing, it's the fact that SD cards are not fast enough for Magic Lantern to hack this body to give it 1080p30 RAW. Unlike the RAW video that ML has added to the 5D Mk 3, the most this camera will output is 720p RAW.

The big question is: will this new sensor solve the moire/aliasing issues that plague all Canon HDSLR cameras except the 5D Mk III?

But the new PDAF in video mode is most welcome. A headphone jack was a feature that Canon seems to have left for the 7D Mk II.

0 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (9 months ago)

It'a aimed at the bottom end, the 7D replacement might have dual slots

0 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

Hopefully the 7D Mark II will have dual CF slots. And keep the joystick, etc.

Maybe they have another sensor improvement focused on still imaging?

0 upvotes
Sabaki
By Sabaki (9 months ago)

Question: is the AF performance exclusively linked to Live View or is there improvement for those (birders/wild life/action) who shoot through the View Finder?
Also, if one shoots macro using Live View, will the new AF lock more successfully on say a bug?

Thanks guys and apologies if the questions seem idiotic

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

dual-pixel cmos AF won't work while the mirror is down.
for macros, a rail is much easier than AF/MF.

1 upvote
Franz Kerschbaum
By Franz Kerschbaum (9 months ago)

... for frozen bugs, yabokkie! Sabaki, I mostly use AF or sometimes fix the focus and select the focal plane in liveview. Rails dont work for me out in the field with living insects and wind.

2 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

a rail is especially good for moving subjects,
as long as your rail is long enough.

0 upvotes
ecm
By ecm (9 months ago)

Interesting changes. Its the first update from Canon that actually makes me think about upgrading my T3i.....

5 upvotes
marleni
By marleni (9 months ago)

It is exciting to see that Canon has not given up the struggle to win customers back. One should not forget that millions of people have Canon lenses and that is also an argument where people turn to when they search a new camera body.
Lately there was a lot of critizing of Canon's decisions and maybe that worked ... a very interesting point because Canon has the reputation to not listen much to the wishes and suggestions of its customers - many said they don't have to because of their market position - but maybe now they DO have to?!

1 upvote
howardroark
By howardroark (9 months ago)

Seriously? Return? Because everyone who is in the know left? Canon listens to the market, but they don't do things simply to satisfy a small group and they don't compromise their designs or their market segments because people think a feature is easy to impliment or that it is basically free to write new firmware. Every dollar counts, and if they know that a slight increase in cost will butcher sales in a certain segment they might choose to put that feature on a higher model. If a feature is going to compromise the experience of a majority of the users the minority will have to suck it up and deal with it.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (9 months ago)

"It is exciting to see that Canon has not given up the struggle to win customers back."

Yeah, because people switch camera systems *all the time*! Not. Canon probably adds customers at a much, much greater rate than they lose customers to system switching. System switching is expensive, and most people won't bother to do it.

As for being supposedly unresponsive or criticisms of Canon's decisions, there are people who criticize Canon with *every* model they've ever produced, in spite of the constant and consistent improvements, enhancements, and changes they regularly bring. One also has to remember that developments in technology do take time. It's not as if Canon's new "dual pixel" AF sensor just fell out of the sky. It's probably been in development for some time, and it took a while for Canon to finally get it to the point where they could release it. But to the uninformed consumer, it only seems like Canon is realizing that "now they DO have to" implement improvement!

1 upvote
howardroark
By howardroark (9 months ago)

I wonder if the dual pixel technology will allow for improved edge detection and demosaicing. It seems like treating this like a 40.3MP sensor would at least sharpen edges and eliminate moire. Not sure if there is enough processing power to do something like that.

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (9 months ago)

Now that I've read some more, that's not a good interpretation of the technology or its abilities/limitations.

0 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

It might be possible to do some things like that with different firmware, but with only a horizontal doubling of resolution I think it may be less than optimal compared to just a much higher resolution sensor.

0 upvotes
Keith Reeder
By Keith Reeder (9 months ago)

"Canon has not given up the struggle to win customers back"

Is that the Canonthat still continues to sell more DSLRs than any other manufacturer worldwide?

Jeez...

0 upvotes
HenryKyla
By HenryKyla (9 months ago)

1. In-camera High Dynamic Range and Multiple Exposure modes (JPEG-only) – why not raw?
2. Single-axis electronic level. Why not dual-axis level?
3. Why I don’t see GPS built-in?
4. Body construction is mainly plastic. Why not magnesium alloy body?

1 upvote
Michael Engelen
By Michael Engelen (9 months ago)

it's all about money, I guess. This body is rather reasonable priced for what the customer gets. The new 7D Mk II or however it will be named will probably have all of what you have mentioned and will come at a significant price premium over the 70D

1 upvote
DanCee
By DanCee (9 months ago)

in Canon website it's mentioned as dual axis level

0 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

If you are shooting RAW you don't need or want modes combining your exposures for you, you want to shoot individual frames (e.g. with AEB) and combine them yourself in post.

4 upvotes
T3
By T3 (9 months ago)

1) These are in-camera JPEG processing functions. RAW is obviously just the "raw" unprocessed image. It'd be like wondering why in-camera filters couldn't be applied to the RAW images!

2) possibly a cost-cutting measure, or maybe just a typo. Regardless, I'd hardly say it's a deal killer.

3) GPS costs money. Obviously another cost consideration.

4) Again, another cost consideration. But frankly, I actually prefer the 60D/70D plastic construction better than magnesium alloy. My previous Canon magnesium bodies have suffered dents and paint chipping from being dropped, but that's not an issue with my 60D body. The plastic dissipates shock energy better, is more temperature stable, there's no paint to chip or scratch off...and there are plenty of examples of magnesium DSLR bodies cracking when dropped. Just do a Google image search of "cracked magnesium DSLR", and you'll see what I mean. Magnesium is very stiff, but it's also brittle and its stiffness means less resilience.

3 upvotes
TheDman
By TheDman (9 months ago)

Why doesn't this $1000 camera exceed the specs of the $3000 camera? I just don't understand.

10 upvotes
mehran langari
By mehran langari (9 months ago)

iwish ihad that

0 upvotes
vester vesto
By vester vesto (9 months ago)

niceeee... love it... specially wifi built in the body... capture moment then upload to instagram :D:D:D

0 upvotes
sunnycal
By sunnycal (9 months ago)

On sensor AF is good, but I have my fingers crossed for real improvement in IQ.

3 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

dual pixel CMOS means there are actually 40MP on the sensor and there should be a leap forward in image quality even all others perform the same as the old 18MP sensor.

more pixels, higher the image quality.

2 upvotes
Adrian Joseph Roy
By Adrian Joseph Roy (9 months ago)

"more pixels, higher the image quality."

You're joking, right?

18 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

it may sound like a joke for those who have little knowledge of image sensor technology.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
11 upvotes
oselimg
By oselimg (9 months ago)

@yabokkie...if a car has 16 wheels would you call it a better car?

3 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

That makes no sense.

If a TV has 4K pixels, would you call it a better TV?

4 upvotes
T3
By T3 (9 months ago)

@yabokkie - it's still a 20mp sensor. No need for "those who have little knowledge of image sensor technology" to jump to the irrational conclusion that it'll actually deliver 40mp of resolution. I'm sure that if the new sensor actually delivered abundantly more resolution, Canon would have gladly bragged about it. But clearly, it just means that two photodiodes are used to make a *single* pixel, and that the *dual pixel* phrase only refers to the two photodiodes being used for phase detection. In reality, a more apt phrase would have been "dual diode", rather than "dual pixel", but for marketing I'm sure "dual pixel" just sounded better because people are more familiar with the word "pixel" than "diode". And of course, people will naturally (and falsely) associate more "pixels" (dual pixels, after all!) with more image quality-- at least for those who "who have little knowledge of image sensor technology."

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
ksgant
By ksgant (9 months ago)

@T3 - thanks for the clarification.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
onlooker
By onlooker (9 months ago)

@ksgant: "That's only logical. It's science. Yes? Is this what you're saying?"

No, it isn't, that's not what he's saying, and you know it. You know very well that it depends on the overall sensor size.

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

@T3, did I ever say it got better resolution? (I may say something later but not yet).

more pixels mean SNR can be improved by having lower readout noise, measured at sensor level, per mill, per million, or "SNR print" in DxOMark's test. isn't that most people expect for "image quality"?

hope you will see the DxOMark's test soon.

0 upvotes
onlooker
By onlooker (9 months ago)

I have a feeling we are witnessing a birth of the next EOS M sensor. The whole spec seems tailor made for that camera.

16 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (9 months ago)

Or a mirror-less version of the SL1

2 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

Mirrorless SL1? Why? If you can fit a mirror in there why would you not put a mirror in it?

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (9 months ago)

@tkbslc - I think Josh152 means taking an SL1, removing the reflex mirror and prism, giving it an EVF, giving it the lens registration distance of an EOS M, and essentially making it an EOS M that looks like an SL1...in essense, a "mirrorless version of the SL1"-- or SL1-M -- rather than an SL1 with just the mirror removed.

0 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

Well that's a big assumption based on what was typed, but if so I can agree that would be a good addition to the EOS M lineup.

0 upvotes
IKnowin
By IKnowin (9 months ago)

Another NEW Canon from the dark ages. no 50p / 60p and no electronic viewfinder - pointless - however good the focus you'll be shooting blind in bright sunlight without an electronic viewfinder. Sony are so advanced on Canon it is becoming stupid. With a legacy of expensive Canon lens I keep hoping their next new camera will enter the modern world but they don't seem in any hurry.

1 upvote
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

What camera are you referring to?

The SL1 and the 70D will work fine in sunlight like cameras for a hundred years.

If you mean the EOS M, supposedly a viewfinder version is coming this year. I agree that the EOS M is a camera that seems to have no market.

0 upvotes
DenWil
By DenWil (9 months ago)

I will be interested to see if a FF sensor with the same pixel density is forthcoming.

0 upvotes
wildbild
By wildbild (9 months ago)

such a sensor would be really stupid.
imagine a 40+ MPixel sensor no landscape photographer could use because of defraction is starting at f6.3

1 upvote
Lee Jay
By Lee Jay (9 months ago)

Diffraction is NOT affected by pixel size! Sheesh!

7 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

Two the main inputs for diffraction is sensor resolution and sensor size, which means pixel density is a major factor for diffraction.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (9 months ago)

Where's all this misinformation about diffraction come from? a 10 mp sensor has exactly the same diffraction resolution limit as a 100 mp sensor - the difference is that the 100 mp sensor creates a much bigger image so when you look at it 1:1 you can see diffraction more easily.

Think about it like this; if you took a photo at f/32 on a 10mp sensor, then took an f/32 photo on a 100mp sensor and resized the image to 10mp which has more diffraction? They're both the same...

2 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

If you are trying to make use of the extra pixels, then diffraction affects higher density sensors differently. If all you want is 6MP of detail out of a 20MP sensor, then no pixel density doesn't matter.

If you are trying to calculate diffraction limited apertures for your sensor size, you need to know the resolution and sensor size, which is the same thing as pixel size.

1 upvote
Lee Jay
By Lee Jay (9 months ago)

And the diffraction cutoff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_cutoff_frequency

for this sensor is, wait for it.....

22.5mm/5472 pixels = 0.00411 mm/pixel

Needing 3 pixels per cycle (because of the Bayer pattern and the AA filter), that gives:

1/(3*0.00411) = 81.1 lp/mm for the sensor

1/(0.000550um*81.1 lp/mm)

f/22.4!

Even if you use the Rayleigh limit instead of the cutoff, you still get around f/20. Yeah...I'm really scared of that. My highest resolution lens is sharpest at f/6.3 which means this sensor is way, way undersampling my lens.

2 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

You don't count the bayer pattern, sorry. You ended up with 1/3 the real world limit. We already can observe diffraction leveling off resolution on 18MP cameras at f8.

0 upvotes
Lee Jay
By Lee Jay (9 months ago)

You do count the Bayer pattern, and you do count the AA filter. You need 2 pixels to get one line pair even at the Nyquist, somewhere between 2 and 3 if you have an AA filter and a Bayer pattern. I used 3. You can never use 1, as you claim.

0 upvotes
hjulenissen
By hjulenissen (9 months ago)

I am positive.

0 upvotes
rodney in brisbane
By rodney in brisbane (9 months ago)

Let's wait until we see the reviews. For many stills photographers, the 70D will only be interesting if its high ISO performance and dynamic range is significantly better than those of the 60D and 7D.

4 upvotes
SHood
By SHood (9 months ago)

I'd be concerned about pixel level detail with the dual pixel structure. Curious to see how the RAW converters handle the 70D files.

1 upvote
Andy Westlake
By Andy Westlake (9 months ago)

As far as raw converters are concerned it's an entirely conventional 20.2 MP Bayer sensor.

9 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

Magic Lantern may be able to find that 40MP image somewhere and get it out. but I'm not sure if we can generate a better quality image that worth the effort.

1 upvote
Barbu
By Barbu (9 months ago)

I found the samples: http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos70d/index.html
I'm shocked by the ISO3200 pic... It's as cleaner than ISO320 (less than ISO400!) coming from my 40D, and that is PER PIXEL.
I hated the 50D, and while I enjoy 7D (and using from time to time 600D), I still struggle with high ISO from the 18MP sensor.
5DmkII was clean enough at ISO3200, but you still had to fight per-pixel noise; from what I can see in the few sample images, this looks to be the first really nice sensor in the last 5 years. I wouldn't be amazed if it beats the legacy reputation of Nikon D3S, sensor-wise; but it's a big IF, and only if those samples really represent the actual quality.

7 upvotes
Guidenet
By Guidenet (9 months ago)

@yabokkie If you're serious, that is a ludicrous idea. How is Magic Lantern going to pull 40 MP out of a conventional 20.2 mp sensor? Could that be done, they'd have long since done it for the 18 mp sensor in the 60D. The Double Diode part is part and parcel of the focusing system for Liveview and Movie modes. It is not part of the Bayer Array of red, green and blue photosites. It's not a magic type thing. They won't be able to convert the battery or LCD into photosites either, or the grip into a larger viewfinder. They are unrelated. ;-)

3 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

Read more closely, it's not a conventional 20MP sensor at all - it's a 40MP sensor with each of 20MP pixels divided into two sensors. Obviously the hardware provides some access to the 40MP so the AF can work, the question is what limitations are there in that access, and does dividing same color filter pixels into halves produce any usable advantage for imaging - obviously Canon thinks no.

3 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (9 months ago)

the readout should be 40.4MP, which is merged into a 20.2MP image and output to the RAW file, thus the 20.2MP image can have the same high quality of image (SNR, DR) as the 40.4MP one.

Comment edited 50 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
E.J.
By E.J. (9 months ago)

As is already stated in a different way, no new RAW conversion techniques need be invented because the internal image processor combines the two photo diodes into a single pixel before it ever writes the RAW file. So to a RAW converter it is a conventional Bayer Array sensor with 20MP.

2 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

Maybe the next EOS M won't suck as bad.

12 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (9 months ago)

Maybe all cameras currently available on the consumer market won't suck as bad in the future. Why not say "thanks for making a better camera, Canon" and be on your way?

7 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

I think I did say that, just in a different way. I am hopeful this tech makes it in to the EOS M because it's primary weakness is AF.

Why didn't you just thank Canon and move on?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Richard Murdey
By Richard Murdey (9 months ago)

In principle, an "M" camera using this sensor could be as good or better than the Nikon 1 cameras in the autofocus department, limited only by how fast the lens elements can be physically moved into position.

1 upvote
Dames01
By Dames01 (9 months ago)

The new firmware has radically improved the AF performance of the EOS M. At the current price, there is little to beat it in terms of versatility and IQ.

1 upvote
howardroark
By howardroark (9 months ago)

I've heard the new firmware has greatly improved the M's AF speed. Either way, if the image quality and AF from this sensor are between good and stellar, they've got a winner. I'd say that the way you say something indicates much more than you would think and implies more than the simple meaning of the words. In other words, if that was a compliment to the new sensor it was a backhanded one.

0 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (9 months ago)

Howard, you of all people should not be giving advice on message delivery. Read some of your own posts and then go listen to Michael Jackson's, "Man in the Mirror" ten times.

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (9 months ago)

Here's the difference in my message delivery: if I intend an insult I simply insult, and if I intend a compliment I come right out and compliment. Your statement implied that you thought the new sensor was good by saying its inclusion in the M would make it go from sucking to not. When I want to compliment someone I don't tell them that they no longer suck and pretend I just paid them a complimnet.
It doesn't matter either way. We all get your point. The M of all cameras needs the Dual Pixel AF technology. I'll go look in the mirror and appreciate the fact that when I say something positive it is honestly positive and when I say something negative it is equally honest. I'll also rest easy knowing that occasionally people need blunt honesty whether they like it or not, whether they like me or not. Just because some people are fooled by a thinly veiled insult doesn't mean I am, and I for one would rather be paid the respect of a blunt insult than one whitewashed with condescension.

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
E.J.
By E.J. (9 months ago)

Canon should scrap the existing EOS-M today and immediately announce this sensor in an EOS -M2 and deliver it within three months.

0 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

I would love to see a more advanced EOS-M camera with an EVF (base it on the A-1 body!) and full controls using this sensor.

Even more, I would like to see a Panasonic FZ200 with this sensor tech embedded in it, though I wouldn't be surprised if there is a pixel size / sensor size limit on how practical it is - may not work for compact camera/superzoom camera sensor sizes. If it does, it could make for some wonderfully quick fixed lens cameras.

0 upvotes
neo_nights
By neo_nights (9 months ago)

One simple question about on-sensor PDAF: does it suffer from back/front focus as well, as if it was a normal AF module?
Or on-PDAF gives us the best of both worlds: speed of a PDAF and accuracy of a CDAF (since both are going to be sensor-based)

0 upvotes
Andy Westlake
By Andy Westlake (9 months ago)

In principle it shouldn't be prone to front or back focus, as it's not using a separate light path.

5 upvotes
neo_nights
By neo_nights (9 months ago)

Thanks for the reply, Andy!

That was my biggest concern on on-sensor PDAF.

Another question, though: the sensor is rated as a 20.2mp sensor, but it's said in the preview that the image formed with double photodiodes.... so is it actually a 40mp sensor?

0 upvotes
Pritzl
By Pritzl (9 months ago)

Interesting question. Depends on whether you consider a photodiode to be the equivalent of a pixel or not. Canon apparently doesn't.

0 upvotes
Guidenet
By Guidenet (9 months ago)

The answer, IMO, is a definite no. This double diode is only part of the on sensor focusing system. If you read more closely, it discusses this in the preview, or so I read it.

0 upvotes
Andy Westlake
By Andy Westlake (9 months ago)

Technically, it's a 20.2MP sensor with 40.3M photodiodes. The two photodiodes under each microlens and colour filter have their output combined when you shoot an image, so count as a single pixel.

3 upvotes
E.J.
By E.J. (9 months ago)

If your company name is Sigma then it's a 40MP sensor - see Foveon specs ;) , everybody else, rightly calls it a 20MP sensor with two photo diodes per pixel.

0 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (9 months ago)

Depends on your definition of pixel and how you weight the components of that definition: Foveon consists of three (~RGB) color photo diodes with one spatial location and if the 70D gave you access to all photo diodes, this would be two spatially separated photo diodes with one color filter.

Since Canon doesn't give you access to the photo diodes, it is just a 20MP sensor at the moment. If the hardware allows separate full 40MP reads that would be an interesting test - since the diodes are only doubled horizontally, in some ways it would be like a Foveon/Bayer comparison where certain angles (or colors + angles) show improved resolution.

RGB + CYM resolution tests would highlight Foveon versus Bayer differences more clearly, and different angled K tests would highlight this sensor's 20MP versus 40MP capability, if they only existed.

0 upvotes
Richard Murdey
By Richard Murdey (9 months ago)

Could the liveview AF actually be more capable than the regular 19 point sensor now?

That would certainly upend things...

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (9 months ago)

7D midget with articulated touchscreen and STM boosters.

Heaps cheaper than grandphawe 7D too.

Nice.

.

3 upvotes
Paul B Jones
By Paul B Jones (9 months ago)

Looks like a great camera and bodes well for the 7D update, but hey, I'm sure the grumpy folks can still find something to be upset about.

Comment edited 37 seconds after posting
10 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (9 months ago)

When is Canon going to offer their cameras in a rainbow of colors?! They can't innovate! <dripping with sarcasm>

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting
1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (9 months ago)

It's not made by Nikon so it better not be any good. That's my gripe.

1 upvote
Shamael
By Shamael (9 months ago)

They could make one in mixed rainbow colors, that wood look a bit more gay, hahahaha.

2 upvotes
johnbachel
By johnbachel (9 months ago)

I'm somewhat surprised that the new focusing system didn't come out first on a mirrorless camera, like the EOS-M, since many DSLR owners won't use it much, given the presence of the optical viewfinder.

From my perspective, however, the 70D is a very attractive camera, that includes some things, like micro AF adjust, that should have been included on the 60D.

With regard to the images posted on the Japanese website that are mentioned above, the photo of the sax player taken at ISO 3200 shows very nice noise control The image taken at 1600 of butterflies against a blue sky is also quite good at relatively small image sizes, though on close inspection at full magnification, the blue tone of the sky shows quite a bit of pattern noise.

Still having left Canon several years ago, after having been disappointed by the high ISO performance of my 50D, the 70D doesn't really give me a reason to get rid of my Pentax K-5, given the way I use my camera.

0 upvotes
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