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Sony unleashes Cyber-shot RX100 II with BSI CMOS sensor

By dpreview staff on Jun 27, 2013 at 04:00 GMT
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The other big announcement from Sony today is a 'Mark II' version of its popular Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 compact camera. The RX100 II - for which Sony has confusing given three different names) - features a new 1-inch, 20.2 megapixel back-illuminated Exmor R CMOS sensor, which Sony claims is 40% more sensitive in low light than its predecessor. The 3-inch WhiteMagic LCD now articulates (84 degrees up, 45 degrees down), allowing for easier composition.

Another major addition is a Multi Interface Shoe, which can not only accept an external flash, but also an electronic viewfinder or stereo microphone. The RX100 II also has Wi-Fi and NFC capability, which allows for one-touch photo transfer between camera and smart devices. Lastly, the camera now supports 1080/24p video recording. The RX100 II will be available next month for $750.

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Press Release:

Sony Adds Two New Premium Compact Cameras to Acclaimed Cyber-shot® RX Line

New RX100 II model adds Exmor R™ CMOS sensor and connectivity; New RX1R full frame camera with enhanced resolution and detail

NEW YORK, June 27, 2013 – Building on its lineup of acclaimed compact cameras, Sony is introducing two new additions to the Cyber-shot RX series– the RX100 II and RX1R models.  

Based on the same sleek, stylish design as the existing RX100 model, the new RX100 II features a new 1-inch back-illuminated CMOS sensor, enhanced system expandability and adds Wi-Fi® convenience with NFC One-Touch compatibility.  With an identical camera body and design as the existing RX1 camera, the new special edition RX1R model has had its optical low pass filter removed for increased resolution and detail. 

 “Sony continues to redefine the levels of performance for a pocket-sized, fixed lens camera,” said Patrick Huang, director of the Cyber-shot business at Sony Electronics.  “Now, with a total of four models in market in our Cyber-shot RX line - each with its own unique value proposition - consumers have more options than ever to experience the ultimate balance of size, imaging performance and imaging power.” 

New Cyber-shot RX100 II Camera

Designed to increase sensitivity in low-light conditions and reduce overall picture noise, the new Exmor R sensor in the RX100 II camera is the world’s first 1.0-type back illuminated sensor ever developed.  It is approximately 40% more sensitive in dimly lit situations compared to the existing RX100 model.
The powerful sensor is paired with an exceptional F1.8 Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* lens to deliver exceptionally sharp, natural still images and Full HD video in any shooting condition – from bright daytime scenes to night-time landscapes and everything in between. 

Additionally, the new RX100 II model is equipped with Wi-Fi capabilities and is also the first ever Sony camera to include NFC (Near Field Communication) technology, giving the extra convenience of instant, one-touch wireless transfer of content between devices.  Its Smart Remote Control functionality lets users preview images and control shutter release directly from their connected phones or tablets.  

A Multi Interface Shoe on the RX100 II model allows users to add optional accessories including an electronic viewfinder, powerful external flash and clip-on LCD monitor.  A Multi Terminal lets users add a shutter-release remote control. 

The camera features a bright, detail-packed 3.0-type White Magic™ LCD display that tilts upwards (up to 84 degrees) and downwards (down to 45 degrees), giving shooters greater freedom to compose shots from overhead and low angles. 

Additionally, the RX100 II model has expanded Full HD video capabilities with the addition of 24p shooting for cinematically styled movies. Other refinements include a step zoom function that lets users instantly choose any of five popular focal lengths for handy scene framing. Shooters can select 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 70mm or 100mm focal lengths using the camera’s control ring, giving them an intuitive and fast alternative to zooming in and out.

The new camera is also compatible with Sony’s TRILUMINOS Color technology, ensuring richer, more natural color reproduction when connected to the new BRAVIA televisions featuring TRILUMINOS Display.

New Special Edition Cyber-shot RX1R Camera

The new Cyber-shot RX1R full-frame compact camera is designed to satisfy even the most critical photographer’s desire for sharper, more detailed pictures and enhanced resolution.  The model’s ‘R’ suffix denotes a further improvement in the pocket-sized camera’s already spectacular resolution.
In common with many digital cameras, the original Cyber-shot RX1 camera features a multi-segment optical low-pass filter (OLPF) in front of the sensor to suppress unwanted moiré and color artifacts.  The enthusiast-oriented RX1R model removes this low-pass filter to realize the full resolution potential of the image sensor and bring new levels of realism to landscapes and other finely-detailed subjects. 

Additionally, to take advantage of  the OLPF removal, the camera’s processing functions have been optimized to maintain image sharpness without compromising lens/sensor performance.

While weight and dimensions remain the same as the ground-breaking DSC-RX1, the special edition RX1R is also now compatible with TRILUMINOS Color technology, allowing for the ultimate image playback experience on compatible BRAVIA televisions.
 
Pricing and Availability

The new Cyber-shot RX100 II and RX1R models will both be available next month for about $750 and $2800 respectively.   The cameras and a range of compatible accessories can be purchased at Sony retail stores (www.store.sony.com) and other authorized dealers nationwide.

Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 II Specifications

Price
MSRPUS: $750
Body type
Body typeLarge sensor compact
Body materialAluminum
Sensor
Max resolution5472 x 3648
Other resolutions5472 x 3080, 4864 x 3648, 3888 x 2592, 3648 X 3648, 3648 x 2736, 2736 x 1824, 2592 x 1944, 2592 x 1944
Image ratio w:h1:1, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9
Effective pixels20 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors21 megapixels
Sensor size1″ (13.2 x 8.8 mm)
Sensor typeCMOS
Color spacesRGB, AdobeRGB
Color filter arrayRGB Primary color
Image
ISOAuto (ISO 160 - 12800, selectable with upper / lower limit), 160 / 200 / 400 / 800 /1600 / 3200 / 6400 / 12800 (Expandable to ISO 100 / 125) Multi Frame NR: Auto (ISO 160 - 25600), 200 / 400 / 800 / 1600 / 3200 / 6400 / 12800 / 25600
White balance presets9
Custom white balanceYes (1)
Image stabilizationOptical
Uncompressed formatRAW
JPEG quality levelsStandard, Fine
File format
  • RAW (ARW2.3 Format)
  • RAW+JPEG
  • JPEG
Image parameters
  • Contrast: -3 to +3 steps
  • Saturation: -3 to +3 steps
  • Sharpness: -3 to +3 steps
Optics & Focus
Focal length (equiv.)28–100 mm
Optical zoom3.6×
Maximum apertureF1.8 - F4.9
Autofocus
  • Contrast Detect (sensor)
  • Multi-area
  • Center
  • Selective single-point
  • Tracking
  • Single
  • Continuous
  • Face Detection
Autofocus assist lampYes, built -in LED type
Digital zoomYes (14x)
Manual focusYes
Macro focus range5 cm (1.97)
Number of focus points25
Screen / viewfinder
Articulated LCDTilting
Screen size3
Screen dots1,229,000
Touch screenNo
Screen typeXtra Fine WhiteMagic TFT LCD
Live viewYes
Viewfinder typeElectronic (optional)
Photography features
Minimum shutter speed30 sec
Maximum shutter speed1/2000 sec
Exposure modes
  • Superior Auto
  • Intelligent Auto
  • Program Auto (Program shift available)
  • Shutter Priority
  • Aperture Priority
  • Manual
  • Scene Selection
  • Sweep Panorama
Scene modes
  • Anti Motion Blur
  • Fireworks
  • Gourmet
  • Handheld Twilight
  • High Sensitivity
  • Landscape
  • Macro
  • Night Portrait
  • Night Scene
  • Pet Mode
  • Portrait
  • Sports Action
  • Sunset
Built-in flashYes (Pop-up)
Flash range15.00 m (ISO Auto (W))
External flashYes (via Multi Interface Shoe)
Flash modesAuto, On, Off, Slow Sync
Continuous drive10 fps
Self-timerYes (10 sec. / 2 sec. / Self-portrait One-person/ Self-portrait Two-person/ Self timer Continuous (3 or 5 shots))
Metering modes
  • Multi
  • Center-weighted
  • Spot
Exposure compensation±3 (at 1/3 EV steps)
AE Bracketing (3 frames at 1/3 EV, 2/3 EV steps)
WB BracketingNo
Videography features
Resolutions1920 x 1080 (60 fps), 640 x 480 (30 fps)
FormatMPEG-4, AVCHD
MicrophoneStereo
SpeakerMono
Storage
Storage typesSD/SDHC/SDXC, Memory Stick Duo/Pro Duo/Pro-HG Duo
Connectivity
USB USB 2.0 (480 Mbit/sec)
HDMIYes (Type D Micro HDMI)
WirelessBuilt-In
Wireless notesWiFi and NFC (NFC Forum Type 3 Tag compatible, One-touch remote, One-touch sharing)
Remote controlYes (Yes via NFC)
Physical
Environmentally sealedNo
BatteryBattery Pack
Battery descriptionLithium-Ion NP-BX1 battery
Battery Life (CIPA)350
Weight (inc. batteries)281 g (0.62 lb / 9.91 oz)
Dimensions102 x 58 x 38 mm (4 x 2.29 x 1.51)
Other features
Orientation sensorYes
Timelapse recordingNo
GPSNone

Additional images

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91
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Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 II

Comments

Total comments: 174
Twenty3twenty2
By Twenty3twenty2 (8 months ago)

I really like the big sensor... but still no GPS? Will go for Nikon P330 and save some money.

0 upvotes
Steve58
By Steve58 (9 months ago)

using nex 5R before... just sold to 2nd hand market intended to buy a more handy camera... waiting and waiting for a 2nd generation of RX100... but today I get a RX100i back to home... 2nd generation is so disappointed to me... thicker in size... useless hotshoe and flip mon... (to me... RX100 line should be a handy one...) and also not much iso improvement but softer IQ than RX100i... and 2nd gen is made in China... but my brand new copy of RX100 get today still made in Japan.. :)

Comment edited 56 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Darren Lee
By Darren Lee (9 months ago)

i think i will get the rx100 instead...doesn't seem like from pics that the IQ is better.

0 upvotes
Fujifilm Finepix F30
By Fujifilm Finepix F30 (9 months ago)

If this RX100 only had an Android OS and equipped with smart phone capabilities (voice calls, text, internet, games, apps, etc.) like the Samsung Galaxy cameras, then it would have gained the interest of a wider market and possibly reverse the downhill trend in compact camera sales.

In an era of smartphone photography, phone equipped 'smart' ultracompacts have a strong fighting chance over traditional ultra slim 'smartphones' that have forgotten the importance of good handling, long battery life and and an optical zoom for photography, gaming, internet, and phone applications.

0 upvotes
joe6pack
By joe6pack (10 months ago)

I hope it means the original RX100 will come down in price. I am not too keen on making the smallest 1" camera bigger.

0 upvotes
mcshan
By mcshan (10 months ago)

I was hoping the RX100's new model got smaller. I will never understand how a great small camera is released and the DPR wishlists that follow include..handgrips, built in EVF, a tilt screen and the old standby 200 zoom. Please, it is a small camera and by the time the "wishers" are done dreaming it becomes another larger superzoom crapbox.

Keep the RX100 line small please!

2 upvotes
FreedomLover
By FreedomLover (10 months ago)

I will never understand how a great small camera is released and the DPR wishlists that follow include: "I was hoping the RX100's new model got smaller."

Tongue-in-cheek aside, why all the fear suddenly?
There will always be nice new cameras.
Just because some express their wishes doesn't mean Sony will ruin their next model. They don't listen to users anyway.

1 upvote
tolleknolle
By tolleknolle (10 months ago)

The claimed 1/2 stop seems to be in JPEG processing. RAW data puts the original RX100 well ahead of Mk2 at lower ISOs: http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/compact-cameras/sony-rx100-ii-1160503/review/5#articleContent

1 upvote
Yanko Kitanov
By Yanko Kitanov (10 months ago)

Unlike FSI with BSI there are problems associated with mounting the circuitry that increase crosstalk, whereby signals on different lines interfere with each other, this can cause pixels to bleed into each other. You can check also the Imagng-Resource Comparometer and see the differences between mkI and mkII in terms of pixel bleeding at low ISO. The color charts, the red patch, the high contrast regions and the regions with some CA all show stronger pixel bleeding with the mkII than the mkI and this is not the more conservative jpg engine, it is line interference as I see it.

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting
6 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (10 months ago)

Techradar comparisons have always been a joke. Non normalized and non controlled tests, resulting in spikes and misleading results all over the place. Hence why their results rarely make sense and are usually contradicted by more reputable hand repeatable tests (DXO et al.).

10 upvotes
Northgrove
By Northgrove (10 months ago)

Don't stare yourself blind at the charts and look at the ISO 3200 sample: http://mos.techradar.com/art/cameras/Sony/RX100_II/sample%20images/_DSC0177.JPG

Wow! I can even read the small text on the plaque. They wouldn't be able to even generate this JPEG if the source RAW was of poor quality. I'm sold. This is crazy good in such a small body. I'm thinking of combining this one with my Fuji X100, sell DSLR gear, and call it a day.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
Anepo
By Anepo (9 months ago)

Someone actually trusts techradar? What next? believe in arstechnica & cnet? oh lord people these days, so misinformed.

0 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (10 months ago)

750$, they are kiddin'. For that price i will step over to the GR from Ricoh, i certainly have the missing 40$ somewhere in a drawer.

5 upvotes
Haim Hadar
By Haim Hadar (10 months ago)

Good luck with the zoom...

13 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

... and stabilization. And WiFi. And tilting screen. And flash of decent power. And 10 fps. And 60 fps video with stereo sound. And sweeping panorama, handheld HDR and stuff like that.

4 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (9 months ago)

You get a lot of camera for that price though. It performs like a big sensor, with a fast wide end zoom lens, and you can stick it in your pocket comfortably. The fact that you can add a viewfinder if you wish, a small grip, and have a tilt screen with a very good 28-100mm zoom makes this a complete camera. The first RX100 was decent, but the additions are welcomed in this model- bonus better sensor and tilt screen hot shoe, etc...

0 upvotes
Anepo
By Anepo (9 months ago)

It is a bit to high for my taste as well I would of been happy with it as 600$ & I will not be purchasing it due to the price point, however I really like this camera but it is outside my price point.

I am sure it is one of the top 5 compact camera's out there but still it is to much for my taste.

0 upvotes
Cephalotus
By Cephalotus (10 months ago)

What does "40% more sensitive" translate to?

In my opnion 140% does mean 1/2 ISO step. Correct?

0 upvotes
michaelkaluzny
By michaelkaluzny (10 months ago)

After owning the RX100 for a bit, I understood the hype behind it. My only issue that eventually made me return it was its sluggishness in manual focusing. I kept hoping the next version would have a touchscreen for a quicker way to select the focus. I get that touchscreen cameras often get associated with gimmicky, desperate attempts to make cameras relevant to an iPhoneographer, but I feel it could be a major benefit for the people shooting with the RX100 wanting better assurance that they'll get the focus even with a close-up wide open. Maybe it's just me, though.

3 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

I'd love to know what conceivable drawback bsi could ever have. Oh, I suppose you could claim another surface (the sustrate) in front of the photosites, but that isn't necessarily a major problem. I'm surprised at Sony's 40% claim, because I doubt bsi alone would give that much improvement on a sensor this large, though it is rather packed with photosites. They likely made some other improvements, too. In any case, this looks like a killer camera that addressed most concerns about the original. Oh, a wider, faster lens would have been nice, but this will do.

1 upvote
BJL
By BJL (10 months ago)

Manufacturing difficulty is the only one I know of. Usually the back side of a sensor is a relatively thick, opaque slab of silicon. For BSI, this has to be thinned down until it is transparent, which probably makes the sensor more fragile. Bigger sensors still have to be equally thin, which probably makes them even more fragile. (Edit: fragility leading to more rejects and so higher overall prices.)

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Yanko Kitanov
By Yanko Kitanov (10 months ago)

There are problems associated with mounting the circuitry that increase crosstalk, whereby signals on different lines interfere with each other, this can cause pixels to bleed into each other. You can check the Imagng-Resource Comparometer and see the differences between mkI and mkII in terms of pixel bleeding at low ISO. The color charts, the red patch, the high contrast regions and the regions with some CA all show stronger pixel bleeding with the mkII than the mkI and this is not the more conservative jpg engine, it is line interference as I see it.
Also BSI sensors are mechanically much weaker due to the wafer thinning, and a large BSI sensor is even more prone to accidental shock-introduced breakage.

1 upvote
Yanko Kitanov
By Yanko Kitanov (10 months ago)

At higher ISO BIS is clearly better - but is high ISO what you buy a pocket cam for? What do you use more often - low ISO or high ISO? If you have your answers, please note that at low ISO the older non BIS sensor is BETTER, the BIS architecture has some clear drawbacks at low ISO, fact.

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
BJL
By BJL (10 months ago)

What are the low ISO disadvantages of BSI? (not BIS by the way).

8 upvotes
Cephalotus
By Cephalotus (10 months ago)

I need high ISO in a pocket camera much more often than in a systems camera, but this is just my opinion, of course.

I use systesm camera when I know that I want to make some photographs and usually I do so when there is (good) light. My pocket camera is mostly for keeping memories and so good light is not always available...

1 upvote
Yanko Kitanov
By Yanko Kitanov (10 months ago)

@ Cephalotus - Great than the mk II is the better camera for you
@ BJ - There are problems associated with mounting the circuitry that increase crosstalk, whereby signals on different lines interfere with each other, this can cause pixels to bleed into each other. You can check the Imagng-Resource Comparometer and see the differences between mkI and mkII in terms of pixel bleeding at low ISO. The color charts, the red patch, the high contrast regions and the regions with some CA all show stronger pixel bleeding with the mkII than the mkI and this is not the more conservative jpg engine, it is line interference as I see it.
Also BSI sensors are mechanically much weaker due to the wafer thinning, and a large BSI sensor is even more prone to accidental shock-introduced breakage.

3 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (10 months ago)

Facts without RAW comparisons are opinions or guesses.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
Yanko Kitanov
By Yanko Kitanov (10 months ago)

@TrojMacReady - Yes, lets wait and see the raw comparison of the two rx100 cams at DxO labs. In the mean time here are some facts based on RAW analysis and unfortunatelly I believe I was right: http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/compact-cameras/sony-rx100-ii-1160503/review/5#articleContent

2 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (10 months ago)

techradar? seriously? that's the site that claimed EM-5 has higher dynamic range than Nikon D800?

Shame on you for quoting techradar

1 upvote
Yanko Kitanov
By Yanko Kitanov (10 months ago)

RX100 was really, really good since it didn't use BIS. Now Sony made me sad with the new BIS, but the people selling their old RX100 to upgrade will make me happy - price drop is what I've anticipating :)

1 upvote
achim k
By achim k (10 months ago)

I did hope, sony would release a version with built-in EVF, not much bigger than the original RX100 (for my purposes, I do not need a built-in flash). For photographers like me they now offer an aditional finder, that makes the camera much bulkier when attached.
Sorry, not pocketable, I will again not buy the new model, although I'm very impressed by the image quality.

Achim

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (10 months ago)

keyhole peeping is not the way to go even for gun sights except some limited applications like sharp shooting.

keyhole-peeping-type viewfinder was more a result of technical limitation/incapability, that the image will become dimmed on a larger finder screen (like those for large/medium format cameras).

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

It wouldn't be impossible to implement a low end EVF tho, I think the Panasonic LF1 proves that to an extent... Whether it's worth it is another story, personally I think I'd take the tiltable display over a low end EVF as long as both end up in a similar sized body.

A low end EVF would only be something you use in a pinch when conditions are absolutely terrible (or if you've got vision issues, but it'd be a poor full time replacement); whereas the tilting display is more useful overall (tho I think ultimately it'd always come with a bit of a size penalty, in thickness).

0 upvotes
achim k
By achim k (10 months ago)

I'm sure, it would be possible to implement a high-end EVF like that of a NEX6 Camera! And look at the street price of a NEX6, the viewfinder cannot be that expensive!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
MikeStern
By MikeStern (10 months ago)

I am so happy it does not include evf.
For a small expensive camera, adding evf would kill it.

I own nex6. I like evf. But doesn't make sense if it came integrated on rx100. It's existing design already speaks for this truth.

4 upvotes
davids8560
By davids8560 (10 months ago)

The addition of an optional EVF is a welcome improvement, but the new model's articulated LCD may somewhat obviate the need for an EVF. And the optional EVF is going to be a hefty $450, from what I hear.

I sure wish they would mate the RX100's sensor with a bridge-type superzoom.

5 upvotes
nofumble
By nofumble (10 months ago)

A reading glass only cost 99 cents at dollar store, why bother with EVF.

0 upvotes
Digital Suicide
By Digital Suicide (10 months ago)

The only useful improvement over mk1 I see tiltable screen. I do lack one on my RX100. But what really bothers me about SONY, that they since launch of the first RX100 still no firmware update.

4 upvotes
Everlast66
By Everlast66 (10 months ago)

+1 Yes, we want the 24p Full HD video option from the new version plus any other improvements they might have added on the software side.

1 upvote
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

I guess a more sensitive sensor doesn't count for anything? I can see not caring about the WIfi. Sony hasn't done much with their WiFi implementations yet, but a better sensor is a decided improvement (if it really is better, but I trust Sony more than most on sensor claims).

3 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

"Designed to increase sensitivity in low-light conditions and reduce overall picture noise, the new Exmor R sensor in the RX100 II camera is the world’s first 1.0-type back illuminated sensor ever developed. It is approximately 40% more sensitive in dimly lit situations compared to the existing RX100 model."

Wow, the sensor was not bad to begin with, and now it should be better than the old 4/3 12mpix sensor. And in a pocketable size with a pretty bright zoom. Very impressive.

12 upvotes
jennyrae
By jennyrae (10 months ago)

another disappointment. better look for something else with better to offer. Sony don't have new to offer here.

0 upvotes
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

A 1" back-lit sensor isn't new? Old hat? What was on the wish list?

13 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (10 months ago)

high on the list is NO = Nikon 1, with BSI sensor.

0 upvotes
NowHearThis
By NowHearThis (10 months ago)

@jennyrae
Are you being ignorant on purpose?

New and improved BSI 1" sensor. Hot shoe, Articulated LCD and it still fits in your pocket.

Please enlighten us, what underwhelmed you?

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
WellyNZ
By WellyNZ (10 months ago)

@jennyrae

What were you hoping for? A full frame sensor with 36mp and a 18-200 f1.8 lens? That still fits in your pocket?

3 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (10 months ago)

Lots of knee jerk comments about the NEX-3N being a better value.

The NEX-3N is obviously less expensive (and cheaper build quality-wise). But it's an CSC so you can mount any lens on it. But I'm wondering if these people below have actually used the NEX-3N.

In spite of the versatile E-mount and larger sensor, the 3N has some issues that don't work in it's favor:

* no option to add an EVF (or flash)
* poor LCD. The 460 K LCD (the 3N's only VF) is grainy in low-light, hard to see in bright light
* Average at best AF performance
* video quality on NEX-3N is not what we expect from a Sony with heavy
moire/aliasing as extreme as any I've ever seen. The RX100's video is truly outstanding.
* the 16-50 kit lens is not wonderful (to put it mildly)

The NEX-5R or an old stock 5N could be considered good values vs the RX100, but with the 3N, all I can say is try before you buy.

5 upvotes
nathanleebush
By nathanleebush (10 months ago)

Not to mention size. Apples and oranges.

No surprise on video quality. Sony understands video as well as anyone, yet refuses to implement it properly on any of its stills cameras (in terms of image quality. Great bells and whistles features like peaking and 1080/60p). This would be its opportunity to outgun Canon, but it's letting it slip away.

4 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

The NEX-3N is a good entry-level mirrorless camera. Build quality is basic, features are appropriate for many shooters who would never have bought an add-on evf or flash, and the performance is typical entry level. I disagree about the 16-50mm power zoom kit lens. Sure, it's got terrible distortion, but the camera does a surprisingly good job of fixing it without too much ill effect. Sure, it's kind of soft off center, but so are plenty of other lenses. What's great about this lens is that it matches up with the NEX system so well. It's the right size, starts out at the right focal length, and has good zoom controls for video use.

But the RX100 II is clearly a more premium camera. Now that they've added the hot shoe/acessory port it can do more than a 3N. Image quality will be similar, with the faster lens helping make up for the smaller sensor. The old one didn't seem significantly better than the NEX-3N, but this is morning like a 5R in features.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
bzanchet
By bzanchet (10 months ago)

Too bad they didnt release a firmware update... I love my RX100, but it has a much less pleasant skin tones on jpeg than my old Canon S100 and my Olympus E-PM2. It is great for landscape, not so much for people pictures.
A 180º tilting lcd would have been so great for self pics, too bad!
I wonder if the zoom while video remains so much slow...
Except for this minor glitches, it is still the best pocket camera available, but for the amateur photographer, doesnt Worth the upgrade for the RX100 II IMO.

0 upvotes
FreedomLover
By FreedomLover (10 months ago)

bzanchet, thanks for the observation about skin tones, I would be interested to see examples for comparison.

0 upvotes
LordGriNz
By LordGriNz (10 months ago)

I want to like this camera, but it desperately needs 24mm wide, the main reason I keep looking elsewhere. I am willing to give up the long end, but not willing to live without 24mm wide, oh well.

10 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

It'd be nice, but not if it comes at the cost of a larger camera or slower lens... For group/social shots the difference between 24mm and 28mm isn't even a full step!

1 upvote
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

The LX-7 has 24mm equivalent, but is bigger and has a 1/1.8" sensor.

0 upvotes
Paul Guba
By Paul Guba (10 months ago)

OMG this site gets more ridiculous by the day "Sony Unleashes" LOL. It was chained to an engineers desk but now its free. Must be a summer intern writing headlines or they are striving to be more like yahoo. FYI
unleash
— vb
1. to release from or as if from a leash
2. to free from restraint or control

12 upvotes
Scorpius1
By Scorpius1 (10 months ago)

Don't be so pedantic dude... ;-)

18 upvotes
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

That humble intern has a more hopeful future than someone who picks dull language. Would a headline grab your attention if it says "Sony RX100 II: rewarmed RX100"? Or "Sony Drags Another Camera to Market"?

4 upvotes
mauritsvw
By mauritsvw (10 months ago)

Agree with Paul G. To 'unleash' a warmed up model is a bit over optimistic.

1 upvote
Jeff Keller
By Jeff Keller (10 months ago)

There are only so many ways you can say "announced" :)

9 upvotes
WellyNZ
By WellyNZ (10 months ago)

I think it's a very reasonable metaphor.

Sony has had this camera leashed up in its lab for some time and it's been champing at the bit to escape, desperately waiting to bound into your hands, letting you unleash photographic fury!

Don't listen to him, Jeff!

1 upvote
mcshan
By mcshan (10 months ago)

@Jeff.. then why not just say "announced"?

1 upvote
Luke Tapp
By Luke Tapp (10 months ago)

"announced" is reserved for non-owners of DPR.

0 upvotes
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (10 months ago)

I confused the announcements with the RX100 also losing the AA filter. Anyways, their pretty on top than anyone else with the RX100 II which I think many people can shell out money for despite as many people posted below that the NEX-3n has better value.

0 upvotes
Eigenmeat
By Eigenmeat (10 months ago)

Yay time to get a discounted RX100 Mark1!!

0 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (10 months ago)

Don´t expect big discounts, the price of RX100 dropped only marginally since introduction.

2 upvotes
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

Shouldn't the price fall to $536? That would be the $750 price of an RX100 II divided by the increased sensor performance factor. Or might it fall to <$400, if the RX cameras cater mainly to people who won't accept 2nd best?

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

If it fell anywhere under $500 it'd absolutely kill off the other five advanced compacts... (S110, P330, LF1, XZ-10, etc) It wouldn't even be a choice in most cases.

1 upvote
fotografer
By fotografer (10 months ago)

I have my RX100 for more than six months now and all I can say that it's a very very competent carry-everywhere camera which delivers excellent image quality for both the stills and the videos (shot every clip in 50p)! This is definitely a welcome upgrade with the same sensor. There are some complaints that the screens are not articulated and there is no viewfinder (not a problem for me personally) so I am sure more people are going to find this camera a very convincing carry-around compact or a second camera to their DSLR.

4 upvotes
photofan1986
By photofan1986 (10 months ago)

It's not the same sensor!

6 upvotes
Pix Man
By Pix Man (10 months ago)

True, but a 40% increase in sensitivity equals less than half a stop - better yes and a worthwhile change, but it won't produce significantly better IQ for 98% of the time. Personally I hardly ever go over 400 ISO and the old model is perfectly good for 1600 ISO anyway.

6 upvotes
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

Correction (?): a second camera to their phone, unless both the RX and DSLR stay at home, while the phone goes everywhere.

1 upvote
Jefftan
By Jefftan (10 months ago)

I would buy a GR or NEX-3N and anyone care about their money should

3 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

GR does not have ANYTHING on RX100Mk2. Anything. DR is the same as RX100Mk1, high ISO is compensated by faster lens. Now, in terms of features even RX100 smokes GR, RX100Mk2 is from another century (hell, GR does not even have image stabilization!).

0 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

With the wide angle fixed lens of the GR stabilization wasn't essential (though it wouldn't have hurt). It's a nice camera, but in a very different category. The Sony clearly offers more features, but the GR appears to be a very pleasant camera to use, with nice controls and menus and very nice iq. But I'd rather have the Sony for most uses.

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (10 months ago)

without explaining myself or the limitations of the NEX-3N,
I'd say...if you like NEX, increase your budget!

0 upvotes
ftpie
By ftpie (8 months ago)

GR has an infinitely superior control system. APS-C at 2.8 means more overall light capture than the RX100-II. Ricoh is more of a photographer's tool than the Sony, so, yes, it may lack some of the "bells and whistles" of the Sony because the in-camera feature set is targeted to the act of photography rather than connectivity, video, or a tilting screen.

By the way, they both have the White Magic Sony screen - greatest screen in this size category available today.

0 upvotes
Jefftan
By Jefftan (10 months ago)

$750 crazy price for 1 inch sensor
How much bigger is NEX-3N at $450

but IQ must be much better
can't understand Sony pricing

6 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (10 months ago)

Only partially true: NEX has bigger sensor, but worse lens: the kit-lens 16-50 is:
1. much slower: only f3,5-5,6 comapred to f1,8-4,9 (2 EV worse at wide end and 2/3 EV at tele end),
2. optically rather weak: terrible distortion, vignetting, not especially sharp.
However I agree that 750 USD is pretty much.

4 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (10 months ago)

Also, the 3N doesn't support 1080p60 video recording, only the substantially inferior 1080i60.

It doesn't have Wi-Fi / NFC either.

3 upvotes
stupidisanart
By stupidisanart (10 months ago)

The image quality will actually be better out the RX100 due to the lens quality. If you upgrade the lens quality to the same standard it would be more expensive and a lot larger.

Comment edited 14 seconds after posting
1 upvote
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

Unless a full-grown marsupial, how do you fit a NEX-3N in a pocket? If it entails buying a "pancake" lens, there goes the supposed price difference.

3 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Even with a pancake lens, any mirrorless model will still be closer to something like the LX7 than the RX100... e.g. it ain't going into any trouser pocket.

1 upvote
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

The collapsing 16-50mm lens is quite small. As is the 3N. Sure, it won't fit in a shirt pocket like an RX100 II, but it fits easily in a jacket pocket. The 16-50mm had to be optically compromised to be that small, but the cameras do a good job of fixing most of it. It would be nice to have better optics, but for this line the size was more important. I don't doubt the RX100 II is doing some digital correction at some focal lengths, too. As it should.

0 upvotes
thomas2279f
By thomas2279f (10 months ago)

Looks good... where's Canon and Nikon equivalents of RX-1 & RX-100 ?

3 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (10 months ago)

Canon could better improve the G1x, e.g. with an EVF, improve the AF speed and it will be a hit.
Nikon has the pocketable P330 and the 1 system, so there is no space for other larger-sensored compact.

0 upvotes
new boyz
By new boyz (10 months ago)

Canon S110? But only from the outside. Performance, this little buddy smokes it hands down.

10 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Why wouldn't there be space for something above the S110/P330? Those cameras come in at $350-400... There's plenty of space, the RX100 just proved it last year. Whether Canon/Nikon are willing to try something different and sacrifice sales of some of their other product lines is another story.

I certainly wouldn't expect it from Canon, these days they move at a glacial pace... Panasonic just introduced the LF1 which sits between those other two and the RX100, so probably not them either. Maybe Olympus or Samsung? /shrug Maybe Panasonic will take the LX line to a new level at some point, tho that's in a different size class.

1 upvote
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

Uh, Canon already sells the G15 and the G1X. The first is cheaper and simpler, with a smaller sensor, the second is bigger and has an even bigger sensor. It's a bit too slow and can't focus anywhere close, but the iq is very nice. Canon is the only make with a fairly complete line. Sony needs a line between this and their p&s models. Fuji also has a decent lineup with the XF1 and X20, though the latter is a big step behind the new Sony.

1 upvote
Treeshade
By Treeshade (10 months ago)

RX100 sits comfortably between more expansive pocketable APS-C and those cheaper large sensor compact. Wouldn't the price up mean direct competition with Ricoh GR? GR is slightly larger (worth for the grip) but with much larger sensor and more control. So, is the 28-100mm zoom enough to differentiate the products, or is Sony playing purely on reputation?

1 upvote
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

I don't think a ton of people are gonna be cross shopping those two, they're radically different cameras... Some enthusiasts might use them for the same purpose (portable 2nd camera for low light snapshots) but I doubt that's the main market Sony's aiming for.

You can't really blame them for hiking the price up and milking the uniqueness of it as long as there's no direct competitors... Could've been worse, could've been a larger bump or they could've decided to instantly discontinue the RX100 (apparently they're keeping it around for now?).

3 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (10 months ago)

The do not compete at all; people searching for a decent universal compact would not look at fixed-focal-length comapct with limited usability. And the DOF control is also not an argument in favour of the GR, since f2,8 at wide-angle (28mm eq). means big DOF (eq. f4,2), not really different from the RX100 (eq. f4,8).

5 upvotes
radissimo
By radissimo (10 months ago)

they compete both in my book. I am deciding between the two. reason?
I want pocketable high quality 28mm camera (as using this FL 80% of the time-as majority of the people),they have same price- I think they actually are competitors as second camera to my NEX-6. I sold RX100 and deciding between the two.
pluses of GR: better lens and overall IQ
pluses RX100II: zoom is handy, same Sony hot shoe,tilting screen, gadgety stuff (panorama, HDR, wifi,NFC)
HELP!

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

"much larger sensor"

with the advantages killed by much slower lens...

" and more control. "

Not really. Hint: this ring around the lens of RX100 - it's a second dial.

1 upvote
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

Not sure why you would want a GR or RX100 II to back up a NEX-6. It's not as if the NEX is all that big or that there are significant differences in features or iq. I suppose they are just slightly more pocketable, but the difference is very modest.

0 upvotes
ftpie
By ftpie (8 months ago)

peevee1 - APS-C+2.8 = more overall light capture capability than 1"+1.8.

The lens ring might be a second dial, but once you've experienced the Ricoh control system (Up/Down Dial, ADJ. Lever, Fn1/Fn2 flexibility) you'll never go back to a control ring. The Ricoh's may have not been discovered by the masses in the US yet, but I expect that will change in the near future.

0 upvotes
Zamac
By Zamac (10 months ago)

If it's a 2nd (or 3rd) camera, small size and low-light performance are probably THE important aspects. The smaller max. apertures at the telephoto end are unimportant to me as in hand-held low-light shooting I always go as wide as possible (and crop if necessary) while any tele low light shots would use a tripod or similar support.

1 upvote
eivissa1
By eivissa1 (10 months ago)

It is a pity that Dpreview did not make a critical remark about the price, compared with another compact like the great Ricoh GR V, that costs about the same.
No, I don't own the Ricoh...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

Yeah, GR costs about the same, does not give any better DR, has slower lens at 28mm exactly compensating for the difference in high ISO performance, does not have 29-100mm zoom, does not have articulated screen, does not have image stabilization, does not have WiFi etc... Pretty obvious which camera is a better value, BY FAR.

3 upvotes
ftpie
By ftpie (8 months ago)

I hope dpreview includes some comparisons between the RX100-II and Ricoh GR in the full review. People keep saying how different of a camera the two of them are, but the people who would be interested in buying one are most likely at least looking at the other because they are near in price range. Zoom may be the key for some, but once you zoom, you quickly lose light gathering. Keep the Sony wide, do the comparison with the GR, and see which comes out on top. Would be an interesting comparison, I think.

0 upvotes
sabad
By sabad (10 months ago)

Imaging-resource says that (and is said to be a full stop more sensitive). That is very impressive.

4 upvotes
eivissa1
By eivissa1 (10 months ago)

Yes, but if you view their test photos real closely, the details are less at high ISO.

0 upvotes
new boyz
By new boyz (10 months ago)

"Yes, but if you view their test photos real closely, the details are less at high ISO."

Well, that happens to every camera, right?

0 upvotes
eivissa1
By eivissa1 (10 months ago)

Yes, I meant that the details at high ISO were less compared with the older RX100. And that's too bad.

2 upvotes
CeleryBeats
By CeleryBeats (10 months ago)

WOW. Noise performance is I N S A N E. I am becoming a really big fan of sony concerning compact camera's. Sugoi desu ne!

I just got the RX100 about a month ago. I'm going to sit this generation out and wait for the RX200/mark 3. If i can hold my self that long :P But damn sony keep it up!

18 upvotes
fox-orian
By fox-orian (9 months ago)

I got the RX100 last fall. I've had it for a while and love it dearly. And as much as I'd love to upgrade to the Mk.II, I have to remind myself that my RX100 is by FAR no slouch even compared to these upgrades. I know I should save my money and sit a generation or two out or else I'll forever get stuck being envious of the latest and greatest release, and ritualistically upgrade at the end of every summer.

No! Our RX100's are still awesome and we must resist the temptation! Hahahah.

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Personally, I'd gladly give up the articulated display for a slightly longer zoom reach (a-la-S110/LF1) and/or a price drop rather than a bump... But I'm sure there's just as many people that will really dig it (just like the hotshoe, tho probably less so) and it didn't come at the cost of a larger body. I'm just surprised no one's stepped up and introduced a direct competitor, the market needs it.

2 upvotes
Marvol
By Marvol (10 months ago)

Maybe there are no direct competetitors for this and the RX1 because these cameras are more difficult to engineer than is generally assumed?

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Difficult? Sure... But it's not like Sony has cornered the market on brilliant engineers or something. More than likely it's a combination of them catching everyone off guard and a product like the RX100 taking more than a year to get off the ground from scratch, between engineering, marketing, the bean counters approving it to begin with, etc.

Plus a lot of other companies wouldn't be as willing to cannibalize some of their other product lines with something like the RX100 (which eats into your own CSC/ILC sales etc)... Sony probably deserves just as much credit for trying out different things just to see how the market receives them as for actually designing some of their innovations like the RX100, SLT, etc (I own neither btw).

1 upvote
CFynn
By CFynn (10 months ago)

Sony have always been good at making things small.

0 upvotes
SayCheesePlease
By SayCheesePlease (10 months ago)

Maybe not big improvements, but still improvements. The 1st gen RX100 is already a little gem of a camera. The street price of the new RX100 will likely drop too with a little time. Another plus- it might be a good time to pick up a 1st gen RX100 at a discount!

2 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

I could be wrong, but the street price of the RX100 never really dropped much... And Sony can be pretty swift about discontinuing their old models. Anyone looking for a bargain on the original shouldn't wait long to start looking!

3 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (10 months ago)

Exactly, the price of RX100 almost didn´t move, apparently Sony doesn´t need to discount it because of good sales.

3 upvotes
radissimo
By radissimo (10 months ago)

not on second hand market, example: I bought RX100 year ago for £490, sold week ago for £350 with magfilter and grip.(eBay)
I think rx100 is a great buy right now

0 upvotes
jon404
By jon404 (10 months ago)

I have an RX100. Love it. Am considering a Ricoh GR as my next pocket camera. Same price as the new Sony, close enough. At first glance, the Ricoh still looks good to me. Because about the only thing my RX100 lacks is a hotshoe, for an external OVF. And I can crazy-glue a hotshoe onto it.

As for the flip-up screen, and the wi-fi, and the somewhat better sensor... good new features, but not that important to me. RX100 image quality is already pretty good... and if I buy a pocket camera with a better sensor, it would be the Ricoh with the APS-C.

2 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

The GR will give you nothing compared to RX100 set at wide end. Same noise (RX100M2 might even be better if we believe the claim), same DR, same colors according to DxOMark and lens apertures vs ISO adjustment. Maybe slightly better sharpness in the corners, for the price of not ever having 29-100mm and lower sensor resolution.

0 upvotes
hip2
By hip2 (10 months ago)

They forgot the GPS again :(

4 upvotes
new boyz
By new boyz (10 months ago)

Maybe there isn't enough space for GPS.

1 upvote
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Or enough battery life, or both.

3 upvotes
hip2
By hip2 (10 months ago)

there was enough space for NFC and WIFIi chips though, i would have prefered a GPS instead.

5 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Wifi and NFC are probably a shared chip solution, and NFC takes less power than either of the other two (it's really just used to facilitate wifi pairing AFAIK)... It seems Wifi in general might be a more popular feature right now, I imagine some sorta market study lead to that thinking since everyone else seems to be following the same path with their compacts.

I can kind of see the logic, since having Wifi means you can use a smartphone to sync up GPS metadata so you can in essence sorta get both features... Also, Sony's past GPS implementations on the HX line were kinda poor as far as idle/sleep and battery use. Sure you can turn it off if you're not gonna use it for a few weeks but it's one more thing to remember.

My old Sony compact was always out of battery if I left it some too long because apparently the GPS never gives up and shuts off if it fails to acquire a lock or sees it hasn't been used in a while (unlike Panasonic's TZ line, from what I've read). Hopefully they address that by the time GPS makes it to the RX line.

2 upvotes
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

GPS takes too long to calibrate, or won't at all in some locations. You end up with erroneous readings and wear down the battery. Better to be sober and remember where you went on that vacation. A GPS reading won't make a picture any more memorable or offset other unworthiness.

1 upvote
Rooru S
By Rooru S (10 months ago)

NFC is a trend among all Sony products, probably to boost cross sales between TV, smartphones and cameras (and many other things they are now selling). Put very close your phone (with NFC) next to the camera and it should start remote viewfinder or transfer pics via-Wifi...

That's why NFC/Wifi > GPS. It's all about priorities for Sony.

0 upvotes
DVT80111
By DVT80111 (10 months ago)

EVF defeats the purpose of a pocketable camera. I would pick another camera such as NEX6, orCanon G1X.

1 upvote
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

It's still more portable than any of those tho, I doubt the EVF would be bully enough that you couldn't carry it I'm another pocket... Tho the value proposition certainly starts to become pretty poor.

But hey, it's just an option, not like the hotshoe came at the cost of a major size increase... I'm sure it'll make some people happy. We just need some other manufacturer to start take Sony on so the prices will come down...

0 upvotes
DVT80111
By DVT80111 (10 months ago)

40% more sensitive = barely 1/2 f-stop right?

3 upvotes
misolo
By misolo (10 months ago)

Just under half a stop.

1 upvote
Steve Balcombe
By Steve Balcombe (10 months ago)

log2(1.4) = 0.485 stops. Close enough I think :-)

We should expect improvements to a mature technology to be incremental. This isn't just half a stop, it's _another_ half a stop improvement over an already excellent sensor.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
12 upvotes
misolo
By misolo (10 months ago)

I'm skeptical that even half a stop will be confirmed by independent tests. Manufacturers almost invariably over-claim in these things, with the excuse that they're also taking into account better jpeg processing and are basing the claim on a subjective evaluation of final results. Sensors these days are so close to the theoretical limit for signal to noise ratio in low light that half a stop improvement would be very impressive.

1 upvote
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

A half-stop at twilight migh matter. A half-stop in pitch darkness won't matter.

0 upvotes
sabad
By sabad (10 months ago)

If the 40% sensitivity increase is proven to be correct, this camera will surely shine. I mean we are talking about it matching m43 image quality.

8 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

Not 2012 Sony-sensored m43 image quality, but close enough to 2010 Panasonic m43 sensor (used even in 2013 G6).

0 upvotes
Ben O Connor
By Ben O Connor (10 months ago)

Still not as good as olympus macro capabilities and no lens adapter for such improvments? And sony where is your original underwater housing for rx? ??

0 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (10 months ago)

I remain very pleased with my RX100. Technically I see no reason to renew. And the price of the RX100 was not very friendly, now the RX100 II became even less appealing in price. and keeping the same lens aperture at the end ...
But I think the RX100 still has no competitors.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Yeah, though at this price a lot of mirrorless models would stake a claim... But no ILC would fit in a pocket the way the RX100 can, not even with a pancake lens. I think the fact that they have no competition whatsoever is what allowed Sony to hike the price up...

Nikon's P330 was an S110 me-too, Canon's unlikely to drastically revamp the S110, and Panasonic's LF1 sits just slightly above those with better a better wifi implementation, battery life, an EVF, etc but it's certainly no match for the RX100. Clearly the first one sold well tho, dunno why nobody's committed to compete with it.

0 upvotes
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

The RX100 price is steep enough to persuade many to give near-competitors a serious look. The RX1 price is lofty enough to put buyers in serious trouble with the "significant other," without ponying up a sumptuous bribe or gift, or enduring drastic punishment.

0 upvotes
guamy
By guamy (10 months ago)

Hmmm.. not a good substitute for my canon small and cute pocketable 24-120mm canon s100 with ND filter built in.

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Well, they're certainly nowhere near each other in price... With this price hike the RX100 will probably be just about twice as expensive as the S110 follow up, but they're certainly direct competitors in that they're both advanced compacts that actually fit in a pocket... We still don't have a whole lot of those: RX100, S110, LF1, P330. Am I missing any? Only two of those compete directly on price and only one sports a huge sensor, two have an EVF, three sport wifi (two with NFC), etc etc.

0 upvotes
brendon1000
By brendon1000 (10 months ago)

Not a direct comparison. One has a large sensor while the other has much smaller sensor in comparison while keeping the same body size. The RX100 MK I is still available though for those who want to save a few bucks.

2 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

"We still don't have a whole lot of those: RX100, S110, LF1, P330."

Fuji XF1. Oly XZ-10. Sounds like a lot to me. :)

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

Ok, so six of them... It's still hardly an avalanche. Some of these manufacturers have six CSC models or six compact models by themselves (nevermind DSLRs), six advanced compacts in a market of thousands of models that's also struggling badly to push what used to be their money makers (the cheaper compacts) just shows how out of touch they are.

Never mind that half of those six models only vane out within the last year or two, maybe four of them even. If they had started pushing these models out five years ago we wouldn't be hearing this nonsense mantra about smartphones killing off the traditional compact camera, but they got very complacent.

0 upvotes
AngryCorgi
By AngryCorgi (10 months ago)

I'm a little disappointed by the base sensitivity @ ISO160 now. Will be interesting to see how this sensor fairs on dxomark testing.

0 upvotes
new boyz
By new boyz (10 months ago)

The new sensor is more sensitive, so maybe this camera's ISO160 is as good as ISO100 on other camera. Just maybe.

0 upvotes
Sam Carriere
By Sam Carriere (10 months ago)

Before people get too excited, let's remember that we are talking about Sony here -- where "available next month" actually means available to a small number of stores by the end of the year and in most other stores by next spring -- at the earliest.

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (10 months ago)

Nonsense. RX100 was in the store exactly one week after announcement.

In fact, RX100 was a week old rumor, it was announced next week after first rumors, and was in the store a week after that.

11 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (10 months ago)

Sam, I think you are thinking of Panasonic instead. Sony has it's quirks but have always been very good at getting product out shortly after announcement.

Carl

5 upvotes
Sam Carriere
By Sam Carriere (10 months ago)

Cgarrard I think I remember waiting more than a year to look at a NEX7.

0 upvotes
radissimo
By radissimo (10 months ago)

that was because of the floods

2 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (10 months ago)

Sam- You can't take a couple of cases and site that is a company's habit or personality. There were a couple of cameras at that time that took a while to get out, but there was good reason for it at the time. That was not the rule for Sony, nor is it today.

3 upvotes
Ben O Connor
By Ben O Connor (10 months ago)

God what specs! What a cam!

The most serious treathe to Olympus XZ-2. Come on olympus! Now give us the XZ-3 which has same sensor body & specs with ep-5, smilar amazing lens as XZ-2 which is 20mm on the wide, 120mm on tele end. And not above f2.8

Please :)

5 upvotes
Rachotilko
By Rachotilko (10 months ago)

Guys, you realize that you ask for impossible ?

Sony RX-100 is just on the border of the possible. It's small overall size was made possible on 1" format exactly by means of slow (f/4.9) lens @ tele.

Having 4/3 instead of 1" with f/2.8 would take you in a completely different territory size-wise. Look here:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#315.336,332,ha,t

9 upvotes
Ben O Connor
By Ben O Connor (10 months ago)

Yeah. But XZ-2 ´s body is so bulky that makes me believe "a M4/3 sensor could fit there !"

And I guess, it could happen, but would not fit pocket or at least can´t fit any lens blades. Should be lens cap.

0 upvotes
Impulses
By Impulses (10 months ago)

The sensor would fit... What wouldn't fit is any kind of lens appropriately sized for said sensor, they go hand in hand. There's a reason the RX100 has a short lens that's slow at the wide end, that's about the best you can hope for given the size/space limitations. If you bump the sensor size further then you either give up size or you get to the point where you end with a fixed prime lens and a niche camera (RX1, Coolpix A, etc).

Hell, I'm impressed they added as much as they did without increasing the size to XZ-2/LX7 proportions... But most of it was work done on the electronics I'd guess, and it did come with a price hike, so we probably won't even see significant discounts on the outgoing model. Had the price stayed the same I might be tempted but even $650 was kinda pushing it for a compact...

Hopefully somebody else starts building a 1" sensor compact or Sony's gonna keep charging whatever the heck they want for it for the foreseeable future... I think Panasonic already showed most of their hand for this year tho (LF1 is even safer now, slotted between this and the S110), and I doubt the S110 follow up will be any kind of revelation.

1 upvote
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (10 months ago)

I think Panasonic realized they couldn't compete directly with this, so they made the LF1 by pouring as much as they could into a small body at a reasonable price. Of course I'd rather have the Sony, but the LF1 would be a good travel camera.

0 upvotes
ogl
By ogl (10 months ago)

I'd like to see more faster lens.

8 upvotes
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (10 months ago)

You'd like to see a faster lens.

I completely agree. Even F4 on the long end would be great. 3.5 would be ideal, even if that meant it needed a lens cap.

8 upvotes
Rachotilko
By Rachotilko (10 months ago)

That implies increased size - and most likely a substantial one. Would you accept that ?

13 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (10 months ago)

I would. Call it the RX10. Put a grip on it and a built in evf... sell it tween the price of the RX100 and RX1.

:)

2 upvotes
Rachotilko
By Rachotilko (10 months ago)

Then go, buy Nikon V2 with bunch of excellent fast primes and you're all set !

11 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (10 months ago)

"Then go, buy Nikon V2 with bunch of excellent fast primes and you're all set !"

Exactly once you lose the size advantage, then you can always buy Nikon 1 or even better yet Nex-6

The point of RX100 is that it is a pocket camera. Put faster lens and it won't be a pocket camera anymore but instead it would be competing against G1X or Nex-6. And that was never the aim of Rx100. It was foremost a pocket camera.

This was the point that cgarrard never comprehended last year either and proclaimed RX100 to be a failure (famously wrong prediction)

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
10 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (10 months ago)

Just as kolega Rachotilko wrote, a 1" sensor camera with built-in EVF and a handgrip would make it ... a Nikon V2. ;-)
RX100 is a unique, one-of-a-kind camera, putting (quite) large sensor into a body of common point&shoot. Add some bulk to the body (because of faster lens) and it reaches the size of M4/3 or other CSCs, where it could not compete (just like the Nikon V2 cannot).

0 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (10 months ago)

@The V2 offer ...
Even better Buy the J1 with a 10-30 as a start!
" ... suggested retail price of $899.95 ..." and now you can get it for €200!
And most shops still have it in store!

Why would you ever hesitate ...?

2 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (10 months ago)

Or the V1 with EVF for 220 €! Add a fast 18,5mm f1,8 lens for 180€ and you have a nice two-lens combo for only 400€. However this does not change the abovesaid: the NX100 is much much smaller, size-wise in the league of Canon S110.

1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

"I would. Call it the RX10. Put a grip on it and a built in evf... sell it tween the price of the RX100 and RX1."

I am very surprised that a year passed since RX100 and they haven't made a bridge camera based on the tech. It would be epic and eliminate that nonsense of DSLRs with kit 18-55 zooms glued to them (and Panasonic G with 14-42 only).

Nikon V2 is not it, the 10-30 f/3.5-f/5.6 lens is not even close to f/1.8-4.9 lens of pocket RX100, let alone what could have been possible in bridge format (something like 22-220eq f/2-f/4).

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
jkoch2
By jkoch2 (10 months ago)

The LX7: F/1.2 at the wide end, F/2.8 at the long. Cheaper than the RX100. Extensive manual controls. ND filter. 120fps HD video. Time lapse too.

1 upvote
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (10 months ago)

Jkoch, its sensor isnt even a 1/1.7 sensor, more like a 1/1.95 sensor.

Look at the measurements.

LX7 10MP 6.7x5.1mm** MOS

Fuji 1/2" 6.4x 4.8 mm

G15 12MP 7.44x5.58mm CMOS

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (10 months ago)

*ET2* I think you have a serious case of the weirds.
"This was the point that cgarrard never comprehended last year either and proclaimed RX100 to be a failure (famously wrong prediction)"

Why don't you sack up and quote me instead of using your own words, and quote the entire point I made. Funny too that Sony addressed EVERY single criticism I had of the RX100 with the RX100 II. Yeah it endured more success than I thought it would however, that doesnt mean it was stll the ideal Cybershot that enthusiasts were looking for. Obviously they too had many of the same needs that I pointed out were cons on the RX100- or Sony wouldn't have addressed them ALL as they did with the II version. So I'm not famously wrong as you claim.

The fact that you go around spewing your own ideas of what people said years ago also is quite creepy to say the least.

http://photographic-central.blogspot.it/2012/06/sony-rx100-too-little-too-late.html

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (10 months ago)

Im disappointed.... I really feel they could have done more with it. Heck I could have improved it more then this(front dial, 1/4000 SS, Improved the lens)!

Well....Im sure its a good camera.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
LKJ
By LKJ (10 months ago)

But... it's been unleashed!

19 upvotes
burnin
By burnin (10 months ago)

Indeed. It's a bummer they didn't go to 1/4000 and include a ND filter as well.

Plus, it's getting pretty darn expensive for a camera with a pretty slow f/4.9.

Well, there's always the RX200 or whatever they may call the next version.

3 upvotes
brendon1000
By brendon1000 (10 months ago)

f4.9 is the long end. Its f1.8 at the small end.

Even the Canon G1X has a f2.8 - 5.8 lens albiet with a slightly larger sensor. However the G1X has a rather distinct size disadvantage over the R100.

4 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (10 months ago)

I suspect it has a leaf shutter - which would make 1/4000th difficult.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (10 months ago)

"I could have improved it more then this"

Are you an engineer? What is your experience designing cameras, Kodak perhaps? ;) I doubt even that, I though you are just a medic?

"(front dial,"

They do have one, it is around the lens.

1 upvote
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (10 months ago)

@Peevee, you dont have to be an engineer to improve upon something!
You look at something, hmmm, this could be better and you IMPROVE IT. Im sure you have done that.
I replaced the intake in my car, did it improve it....yes...am i an engineer...no...
I put a franic grip on my XZ-1, did that improve? Yes it did, am i an engineer? No...
I engineered my own wrist strip for my XZ-1....did it improve the camera? Yes it did, am i an engineer? no?
Just a Medic? I believe it says Combat Medic, Meaning ive done things in my life that you would have pi**ed your pants doing.
You could have just left the medic part out of it.....Just had to go there. Man!....Urgh!
Being a combat medic means i can take out your lacerated spleen, Engineer a stretcher, Take you to a broken down hmmwv, fix it, and take you home safe and while under fire.

Now say your sorry

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
dkirk7000
By dkirk7000 (10 months ago)

I like the compactness of this camera and it's added features but I have to say I would probably make better images with adding a small hip pack and inserting the Sony NEX-6 with better everything for only about $150 more w/kit lens.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 174