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Poll: What concerns you most about Adobe's move to subscriptions?

By dpreview staff on May 8, 2013 at 19:05 GMT

Adobe's decision to move to a subscription-based model for its professional creative software has prompted probably  the most impassioned response we've ever seen to a news story on dpreview.com. There's a risk that the sheer volume of comments might prevent a clear message being heard, so we've prepared a poll of the most common complaints, to help establish what your biggest concerns are.

While there's every chance you are uncomfortable with a number of aspects of Adobe's decision, we want to know what's most pressing. So please vote for the factor that is of greatest concern to you and we'll communicate the results to Adobe.

Comments

Total comments: 2478
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Jim Radcliffe
By Jim Radcliffe (11 months ago)

Voids do not exist in nature.. something always fills them. And so it will be with the void that Adobe has so "intelligently" created.

5 upvotes
Roman_93
By Roman_93 (11 months ago)

A Point is in nature no one can simply buy the competition fron the market. I already was worries when macromedia was swallowed and torn to pieces.

3 upvotes
Charlie boots
By Charlie boots (11 months ago)

Google recently bought NIK. They immediately gave everyone was a registered purchaser of a NIK product a free upgrade to the whole suite. In addition they reduced the price from several hundred dollars to $149 for the whole suite and they refunded the price difference to anyone who had paid more within a certain time period.

What a very positive way to do this. Everyone wins and is happy and Google comes out smelling of roses with tons of good will.

Now look at what Adobe has done and there is 99% negativity and animosity towards this company and rightly so. I am a fully paid user of lightroom and CS5 and have been for for many years. I feel totally cheated and abused by these people. Once bitten twice shy.

Here is a proposal, which these greedy people would never think of: Let everyone upgrade to CS 6 if they want to at a reasonable price (free for users of CS5.5) and keep ACR updated for CS 6 for say 10 years.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
7 upvotes
rmwpg
By rmwpg (11 months ago)

I purchase PS so I have it to use on those few occasions I need it. I don't need it terribly often and there are plenty of other options that do what I need to do. I will not subscribe to PS, or any software for that matter. I really like Revel, but I uploaded ALL my photos in the free month and will manage my uploads with the free version. I will not subscribe to that either.

3 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (11 months ago)

I guess if Adobe actually offered cheap ad-hock day/week access that would probably work well for light users, rather than just the minimum 1 year subscription it currently is.

0 upvotes
CEfan
By CEfan (11 months ago)

Photoshop is $29.99 for one month, no contract. Seems like a sweet deal for someone who needs it once or twice a year.

0 upvotes
Werner B
By Werner B (11 months ago)

I have used Photoshop for at least six years now. It is simply not that easy a program to master fully. I am not sure using it once or twice a year would allow you to build a sufficient knowledge base to really use it well. If all you are using are the basic functions, then there is really no need in the first place. But maybe a weekly fee of 10.00? You could save those shots that absolutely needed Photoshop instead of Lightroom and initialize it 6 or 7 times a year. The cost would be affordable ( at least on par with upgrading every second version)and still allow for editing with a program that goes beyond what you can do in Lightroom.
Personally this makes sense to me. But, I would probably not do it simply because I have had enough of being squeezed for every cent, to fill someone else's pocket.
There is a lot of talk of a new 'MODEL', maybe in the future when DP does reviews on new cameras it will consist of the included software as much as the IQ of the sensor.

0 upvotes
bestremera
By bestremera (11 months ago)

I have been using the Cloud subscription to PS for over a year. Due to the on-hand cost of the subscription, it works for me because I never seem to have the $600 or so to purchase outright. And having the latest version of PS gives me some great retouching tools like clone, patch, content aware (extremely useful) and some others. But Lightroom is powerful and inexpensive and I have a purchased version of that. But once Adobe makes you license that one too, then the monthly fees will be unreasonably high and I'll have to look at alternatives. This is why, even with Lightroom, I still use a hierarchy of folders for a day when I might lose all those keywords, collections, etc.

1 upvote
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

you also have no fiscal benefits with this construction that we have in our country. Therefore this construction may work for some, but is a big negative for others.

You must be kidding when you say Lightroom is powerfull. It has NOTHING more (editing wise) to offer then the ACR module that already exists in Photoshop.

So telling the world that LR is nearly as powerfull is a BIG lie!

3 upvotes
Paul Gath
By Paul Gath (11 months ago)

I've happily bought Photoshop and Lightroom and upgraded through the years. My most recent upgrade was to CS5. I then joined the CC subscription for a year on their half price special offer, mainly so I could learn the different products, but to be honest my good intentions didn't materialise and I have barely looked at anything other than PS and Lightroom.

Once my subscription runs out I will buy the upgrade to CS6 and then stop. It will be some time yet for other products to meet the niche with such high functionality, but CS6 will see me well for many years to come.

Now compare the Adobe route with that taken recently by Google when the bought the Nik plugin suite. I never thought I would say this about Google, but they have done their customers proud in this particular product, cutting the price and bringing it to many more users. Now if they could only get round to paying some tax in the countries they operate in....

4 upvotes
Nikonworks
By Nikonworks (11 months ago)

You are forgetting in the future ACR will not be upgradable to your CS6, just as Adobe has done in the past.

P.S. When any company pays a tax, it is you the consumer that is actually paying the tax. It is time to wake up!

3 upvotes
Charlie boots
By Charlie boots (11 months ago)

I tried yesterday to purchase the upgrade from CS5.5 to CS6, It is not available, the only option I have been able to find is at full price. Another money grab from Adobe.

Comment edited 13 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

@Nikonworks

The advantage of no upgrading is also that you may reconsider that LR is the 'best' RAW converter. Better drop Adobe as soon as you can. First and foreall you can start by buying Aperture or another RAW converter if ACR does not support your camera anymore.

The RAW conversion is the smallest of all the problems we are facing right now.

2 upvotes
CameraGuyTV
By CameraGuyTV (11 months ago)

To Charlie,

You can buy an upgrade to CS6. I did it last night. Cost me $375USD. Just click the full version word to display the upgrade version. Put in your previous platform version, and off you go.

It is the last money I will give Adobe. I will upgrade to Lightroom 5 if the feature set is worth it, but based on the beta I have been playing with for a few weeks, I don't see the point. If it's cheap enough, I guess I'll do it.

cameraguytv.com

0 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

WOLLT IHR DIE TOTALE CLOUD!!!

Seid Ihr von nun an bereit, Eure ganze Kraft einzusetzen, die Menschen und Software zur Verfügung zu stellen, um die Adobe Cloud zu besiegen?

Adobe behauptet, die Kunden wehren sich nicht gegen die totale CLOUD.
Sie wollen die totale Cloud, sagt Adobe.
Ich frage euch: Wollt ihr die totale Cloud?
Wollt ihr sie, wenn nötig, totaler und radikaler, als wir es uns heute überhaupt erst vorstellen können?

Glaubt ihr mit Adobe an den endgültigen, totalen Sieg der CLOUD?
Unter Aufnahme auch der schwersten persönlichen Belastungen?

Ich sage NEIN!!!! Wir wollen keine totale Cloud!!

WIR WOLLEN ENTSCHEIDUNGSFREIHEIT!!!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

well said!
i like how you say "NEIN!!!!", it is really convincing. and then you top it off with a well placed "ENTSCHEIDUNGSFREIHEIT!!!". this is really a masterpiece in protest discourse.

Comment edited 13 seconds after posting
10 upvotes
Nikonworks
By Nikonworks (11 months ago)

Shouting in any language violates the rules of this site.

0 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (11 months ago)

Had to do a google translate. Freedom is the word.

1 upvote
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (11 months ago)

haha .... good post! Important things should always be said in German and in capitals.

ICH SAGE NEIN!!!

6 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

i don't know about that. having Toshiro Mifune say it in japanese would probably make it equally good.

1 upvote
Schwaeble
By Schwaeble (11 months ago)

Could not help but smirk at reading that post, which without without reference of any kind to maybe the most infamous bad guy the world has ever seen infers him merely by asking the question if we want the "total coud" in the same way this horrid leader of the 30s/40s posed a different question, verbalized exactly the same way to "his" people. Then of course people who opposed had a difficult time surviving. Today we do have more freedom of choice. Thankfully so and hopefully it stays that way. Maybe some of us dare to use that choice.

To the poster complaining about the capitalization, the shouting:
Well the (German language) poster quite effectively makes his point by accurately referencing the "original speech" (which included a lot of staging / dramatization and shouting). Nobody was shouting at anyone in the forum. But it's an understandable complaint as of course as that "reference" would get lost in translation or without the original infamous speech in mind...

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

one little correction.. it was joseph goebbels sportpalast speech, not from A.H.

i meant it as a warning that nobody should fall for false advertising or propaganda.

there is nothing more important then the freedom of CHOICE.

1 upvote
RGSteele
By RGSteele (11 months ago)

This is like Toyota or GM saying you will always lease a car and never own it. You will always park it in their garage and always use their mechanics. It will always be an expense to you that is focused upon their budget and not yours. If you go out of town for a while or decide to do more walking or simply want to not use the car for a time to save money, don't leave anything of yours in the car because you'll have to pay to get it back. They can spin it however they like, it still boils down to taking ownership away from the user.

11 upvotes
CrusaderPilot
By CrusaderPilot (11 months ago)

Adobe made their name when a software application ALWAYS cost $500 and they were the only game in town. They established their customer base and continued to soak them for upgrades. This just makes the business model more favorable for Adobe ... if their customers will buy it. Have they gone a step too far or will their core constituency determine that whatever advantages Photoshop etc confer is still worth it?

3 upvotes
Frank Daly
By Frank Daly (11 months ago)

...and what about the 20% regional price differences?

Adobe will be charging 20 dollars per month in the USA and 20 Euros + 4.60 VAT (sales tax) = 24.60 Euro = 30 dollars per month in Europe for Photoshop CC.
In the past they said the extra cost in Europe for physical products was the cost of transportation. Well theres no difference when the products are delivered electronically, so why is there still a 20% (+ VAT) price difference for Photoshop CC in Europe??

9 upvotes
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

I'm smiling because you feel there is a need to ask.

http://youtu.be/juM46ny1WhM

This video shows the Adobe CEO refusing to answer that very question, posed by an Australian journalist. Look into the face of the Adobe CEO, and it should answer your question.

9 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (11 months ago)

Adobe have always been a rip off here in the UK. I've changed my mind about the "Cloud".
I hope they go with it. Then in a year or two's time when they realise they lost out big time. They might come back with a different attitude to their clients.

5 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

you don't understand, the creative cloud is a good value for the customers. and teams. and it's the way forward. because it's a good value for the customers. and it's the way forward.

1 upvote
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (11 months ago)

Yes, I got it. It is good value for the customers, and also the way forward. How could I miss that?

2 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

@Agentul,

You make us laugh - I own my OWN content, not ADOBE nor any other professional photographer or designer.

My OWN files, can perfectly reside on my PERSONAL CLOUD.

4 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (11 months ago)

trolls are fed by Adobe

1 upvote
dccdp
By dccdp (11 months ago)

@Just a Photographer: Agentul's comment is in fact sarcasm, as it reveals a logic flaw Adobe's statements seem to be full of. You see, he says that Adobe justifies its decision by restating the decision itself. (CC features are good because they are CC features).

Comment edited 37 seconds after posting
1 upvote
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

@dccdp: thanks, i forgot to enable the subtitles for that post.

0 upvotes
dccdp
By dccdp (11 months ago)

@agentul: It wouldn't have made any difference, they're probably used to dubbing instead of subtitles.

1 upvote
showmeyourpics
By showmeyourpics (11 months ago)

Hi, I am a part-time fine art photographer, restorer and retoucher on a tight budget. As a NAPP member, I have been upgrading Photoshop every other version for $160.00 every 3 years. A subscription would now cost me over $700 which is unacceptable. Yesterday I purchased the CS6 upgrade for its full price (I couldn't find it at Adobe, Amazon, B&H). I will stick with it and wait to see what Adobe's competition will do. I already use dxo optics pro with very good results so raw conversion is not a problem for me. I am also considering the Google NIK suite offer for $149. It would be the right time for Adobe to further develop Elements but I don't trust their sales and pricing policies anymore. I believe I will drop my NAPP membership too. I try to accept my gut feelings but act with my brain and both are telling me that the good times with Adobe are over.

5 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (11 months ago)

The competitive landscape will be different

0 upvotes
Robert Schambach
By Robert Schambach (11 months ago)

Hitler’s Reaction to Adobe’s New Creative Cloud Model
Read more at http://petapixel.com/2013/05/08/hitler-reacts-to-adobes-new-creative-cloud-model/#SbM6oxpTodZUkz4R.99

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=67Iw9q2X9cU

3 upvotes
Roman_93
By Roman_93 (11 months ago)

GREAT!

2 upvotes
SayCheesePlease
By SayCheesePlease (11 months ago)

FACTS

- PS is very expensive for most users.
- Outside USA- IP restrictions make PS very difficult to legally obtain.
- Most of the world population does not have credit cards or credit.
- Largest PS usage is outside US market
- Virus free pirate PS copies readily available.

Result 1) too expensive or 2) impossible to buy legal copy

So what does non-US world do? They use the easily download-able, update-able pirate copy of PS. From my world travels I believe at least 75% of PS users are using pirate copies.

If Adobe would offer broader access tobuy PS at a world price- US$100 - the whole world would jump on board. The pirate market would reduce greatly, profits increase.

There are so many other roads that would increase profit and market share. Adobe could become a "Google" of images. Instead they look for short sighted money gains.

Adobe has shot them selves in the foot. They will lose many paying customers and pirate usage will increase.

Stupid is as stupid does.

7 upvotes
Tkvisuals
By Tkvisuals (11 months ago)

The whole world would hump on board??? No it wouldnt, there will always be pirates, sorry. You could offer it for $1 and some people will never pay

0 upvotes
dccdp
By dccdp (11 months ago)

@Tkvisuals: Some, maybe, but definitely not all. The OP is right, outside the US buying Adobe products is a nightmare and frankly a ripoff. Moreover, most software/music/movie products are either significantly more expensive or not available at all. These stupid protectionist policies US companies seem so fond of don't just encourage piracy, they have actively helped create it.

Just let everybody buy the same downloadable products at the same US price and the drop in piracy will indeed be dramatic.

0 upvotes
AlexanderVC
By AlexanderVC (11 months ago)

I, too, agree with the OP. A more viable pricing schedule that does not abuse other regions would bring on more users and deflect some of the piracy. It would be done with some imagination.

0 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (11 months ago)

You gotta laugh. I've never seen so many shout with the same voice.
I would like to think their is a board room somewhere where all heads are looking at some guy and saying "I thought you said this would be a good business move for us".
I hope he slams the door on his way out.
Get real Adobe, you have always been a rip off company, lets hope you get the message this is a step to far.

9 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Iw9q2X9cU&feature=player_embedded

1 upvote
Nikonworks
By Nikonworks (11 months ago)

DXO & PhotoPerfect is all I need.

0 upvotes
colinwalks
By colinwalks (11 months ago)

Come one Adobe, cut some slack for photographers who need Photoshop and Lightroom but not the rest of the suite.

0 upvotes
riveredger
By riveredger (11 months ago)

Sony should take advantage of all of this uproar and bundle software with PS layer type functionality with its Alpha line. This would give them the push they need to capture more of the professional and enthusiast market. Just a thought, Sony :-)

2 upvotes
Danny
By Danny (11 months ago)

Vote with your money and say NO to greed.

10 upvotes
Alessi
By Alessi (11 months ago)

Exactly!

0 upvotes
Garry35
By Garry35 (11 months ago)

I have CS3 and recently decided I might upgrade to CS6 only to find that I needed CS5 to upgrade. As well as this new Cloud service Adobe also decided that you can only upgrade from the last to the next version. Even if I could purchase CS4 and CS5 to get the CS6 upgrade I wouldn’t. So good luck to anybody that thinks they will buy the latest CS version and stick with it.

0 upvotes
iaredatsun
By iaredatsun (11 months ago)

I'm not clear whether a user has to keep updating* their software.

If you dont want to update what happens to your subscription. Will I end up paying more for the software after X years of use than if I had paid for it outright at the start?

*I generally hate updates as they rarely add anything useful and sometimes make interfaces worse (CS6, adobe!).

I don't give a monkey's about clouds. Take 'em or leave 'em.

2 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (11 months ago)

If you want to use it - you pay - monthly. Its that simple. Regarding updates, you can probably avoid updates. Its probably a setting. But - it wont affect your payments.

2 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (11 months ago)

Agree. Having worked in the photo/studio industry now for nearly thirty years I know of many independent small businesses that cannot afford to update on every new version that comes out. This new bombshell will force many to keep with the current version they have indefinitely. Business now is tough in any industry and hiking up prices for long term use will just make it even tougher for the small business trying to keep their neck above the continuously growing water level. I can imagine versions of the current CS6 will be in very high demand.

3 upvotes
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

Let's say you take a lifetime of photos, and retire at 65. Then you live into your 80's and 90's but want to carry on photography as a hobby and work with your archive of photos. With the old system, you could just keep one version of software forever, whereas here you pay monthly till your dying day. Does that answer your question of which method is more costly? More costly to you, remember, means more profits to Adobe.

I get the impression that the vast majority of people on this site haven't twigged to that reality - i.e. the need to access your PSD files even into your later years.

5 upvotes
vin 13
By vin 13 (11 months ago)

As it stands, you only upgrade when you want to. Though not upgrading defeats the purpose of the subscription.

0 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (11 months ago)

So after having paid so many thousands of dollars over the many years of subscription. And cancelling for whatever reason, retirement, financial hardship or whatever the reason may be. You are basically left with a big fat Zero. I am absolutely astounded that any one would want to even think of subscribing to this virtual ransom.

4 upvotes
AlexanderVC
By AlexanderVC (11 months ago)

Roland Karlson keys in on a major issue here:
Even if you do not want to upgrade, or cannot up grade because you are using an older machine that will not run the latest upgraded version, in a subscription systme you still MUST pay for the outdated software.

In the older model, failure to upgrade meant you missed out on the latest and greatest advances, but your hardware/software combo continued as a function working system until the computer simply gave out. Over a long period of use, it was cost-effective for those who could not afford the continuous rounds of upgrades. (I am thinking of colleges and students here, in particular.) That will all disappear with this new system.

0 upvotes
David & Katherine Barto
By David & Katherine Barto (11 months ago)

I don't rent software. If I stop paying them I lose access to all my images saved in their format. Not going to happen.
Sadly Ps 6 will be my last purchase from Adobe, and I'm sure that they won't care. Annual updates (actually Bi-Annual for the past 10 years) works well for me as I don't need the latest feature and the cost of annual renewal was too much for my hobby. Looks like I get to save a bundle over the next few years.

4 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (11 months ago)

There are interpreter programs like GraphicConverter.

1 upvote
white shadow
By white shadow (11 months ago)

Paying a monthly fee for using a software is like renting a car perpetually without the chance to own it. It maybe OK if the fee is extremely cheap. It will be a stupid idea if one is an occassional user especially when the fee is on a monthly basis. I would definitely not go for it. If I need to pay for a product I want to own it eventhough it maybe out of date in a year's time. One must have the right not to change or upgrade if the existing version is adequate for one use.

It looks like Adobe is getting greedy.

0 upvotes
Marcin 3M
By Marcin 3M (11 months ago)

If they want lease a service, so I may lend them money.

2 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (11 months ago)

hehe - thats a good one.

1 upvote
jlehet
By jlehet (11 months ago)

While I don't mind paying (a reasonable amount) for adobe to continue to innovate and maintain their software, this has me completely bummed out.

As a publicly traded company, Adobe's allegiance is going to be to their stockholders, who demand as much profit for as little expense as possible.

This move means that if Adobe continues to innovate and do good work, they are doing it just for the fun of it. With us as a captive audience, we have to keep paying whether they do anything new and good or not. Also, they can raise the price in the future, as much as they want.

If they continue to innovate and keep the price steady, this isn't so bad. My biggest issue comes from the sense of insecurity as a captive-payer.

Right now I don't consider there is any alternative to Photoshop. But my workflow is suddenly changing to make sure I don't save anything in a proprietary format. Any image that is a PSD will also get saved as a flat .tif. And any PSD will no longer use Smart Objects etc.

0 upvotes
Wally Brooks
By Wally Brooks (11 months ago)

Tom Hogan had an interesting point that the commercial users would be happy with cloud pricing. It's the individual user who won't like it. I personally plan to get the latest boxd version of Photoshop - not the entire CS suite- and that will be my last Adobe purchase. If the functionality won't work in three years it would be time to move elsewhere Gimp or Apeture.

5 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (11 months ago)

Others here have noted that. A web design company, graphics studio may not mind, getting access to the full suite of programs, having the resources to constantly upgrade computing power, etc. There was a time when the elegance and smallest possible footprint of a program mattered. I use programs still in Apple's Classic mode that in many ways have never been bettered.

2 upvotes
Robert Schambach
By Robert Schambach (11 months ago)

Leave it to these overpaid CEOs to screw up a company, some years ago I worked for a small software company in Tucson that was growing and had a great product then of course the new CEO started hiring lot's of top managemt personel that where completly useless and cost an arm and a leg and of course the company floundered and had to be sold. CEOs should not be allowed to wield so much power there should be a way to put these guys in check.

6 upvotes
The Squire
By The Squire (11 months ago)

That would be the job of the overpaid company Board.

2 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

the boards are usually made up of CEOs of other companies, where this CEO is a board member. so why would they give trouble to someone they need to help them stay in power in another company? i think Forbes had a story on this not too long ago.

2 upvotes
AlexanderVC
By AlexanderVC (11 months ago)

So over minted, uninspired, MBA grads can be bane upon innovation? Sounds plausible to me. :-(

1 upvote
SemperAugustus
By SemperAugustus (11 months ago)

Tax implications: Some ADBE troll (Stu 5) has been spreading lies about the Tax implications. In Canada (Don't know in the US) SW purchases and Upgrades are treated as Capital Expenses of Class 12 (100% deductible) . A rent is an expense that will receive ONLY a non-refundable tax credit of 15% of the total.

3 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (11 months ago)

Except it's not a software puchase, it's a lease/licence. You've never been able to 'buy' Adobe software.

So all that changes is it goes from a 18 month lease payment to a monthly lease payment.

Comment edited 56 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (11 months ago)

Eh? I have never heard that my CS4 has expired?

0 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (11 months ago)

It's a perpetual licence, so I'm talking about upgrading it every 18 months.

I guess you do actually 'buy' a licence to use it, but Adobe still owns the actual software asset. So still, either way, paying for 'permission' to use something you don't own should be the same whether it's a lump sum or a monthly plan, no?

0 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (11 months ago)

trolol-lol-lol

one can sell the license
one can use a licensed software forever
on doesn't need a monthly net for a licensed software
etc...

1 upvote
Rasskot
By Rasskot (11 months ago)

No1, No2, No4

3 upvotes
vroger1
By vroger1 (11 months ago)

They have, unfortunately become too arrogant. This is such a ruinous idea, that Adobe, (Like Netflix- USA CD rental Co) will reverse its position. Remember- you heard it here first!! (or second if someone else has said it already) VRR

5 upvotes
Earthlight
By Earthlight (11 months ago)

Today's amateurs are tomorrow's professionals. Lose the beginners and amateurs today and you will lose the professional market tomorrow.

20 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (11 months ago)

Exactly!

5 upvotes
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

You must get this very clear: the Adobe CEO has zero interest in the future. He only wants short term profit. He's got a salary of $12.2 million per year. He only has to hang around for a few years, gouge the customers, then leave Adobe in a shambles for the next CEOs. Don't, for one second, believe that the present CEO cares a tuppence for how Adobe will be in a decade's time when today's beginners are the next decade's professionals. With this CEO and his henchmen, you're not dealing with people that care about the craft. These men are money makers hired in to boost profit to shareholders.

17 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

CEO != owner.

1 upvote
RichLI
By RichLI (11 months ago)

YOU are so right - its all about the next 4 to 8 qtrs; compensation is tied at "C" level primarily to stock valuation.
This was a response to 40daysago.
Next poster - sorry - but the problem is that these managers aren't owners. They are short/medium term execs for sw co's and then whatever job they're offered next to boost the stock price then on to another one....

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Toermalijn
By Toermalijn (11 months ago)

Adobe's shareholders should make clear they don't like this new path. As a matter a fact they did and Adobe is the only one loosing on shares.

Truth is, most shareholders don't give a darn about the company but just want pure profit!

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (11 months ago)

That was a difficult poll. I had two answers. No1 and No2, repeatedly have to pay and the price being to high. I assume many have the same dilemma, and then those two answers will get half the amount of polls they are "worth".

9 upvotes
R Vaquero
By R Vaquero (11 months ago)

I want to pay just once for every PS update, like I have done so far. I will never pay any fee every month to use any software. Otherwise, competitors will have a new customer :(

5 upvotes
matteov
By matteov (11 months ago)

What about future RAW files with CS6?

0 upvotes
King Vulture
By King Vulture (11 months ago)

I think I will continue to use CS5 and just go to a different raw converter like Bibble for processing my raw files when I get a new camera that CS5 doesn't support. CS5 has all the editing tools I need. For me, the future is not cloudy!

5 upvotes
shooter2
By shooter2 (11 months ago)

Bibble is now Corel Aftershot. They are very slow at adding new cameras. Still no support for D600. And, no date when it will be available. I use the program and it is fast at conversions, but slow at adding cameras

0 upvotes
Petruska
By Petruska (11 months ago)

FREE Nikon ViewNX converts RAW to TIF including the D600, no need for ACR to get the job done.

0 upvotes
Optimus47
By Optimus47 (11 months ago)

Adobe really stepped in it this time. Their response to the backlash to CC implies that they have a fundamental lack of knowledge in their customer base.

1) The average customer (especially the starving artist and/or photographer) will not be willing to pay a monthly recurring cost, which is higher than the sum of what they are currently paying for the boxed version.

It simply won't work. Customers do not budget that way. Imagine adding a $20 to $50 bill along with all the other monthly bills that have to be paid!

2) Customers are relatively happy with the existing boxed versions. What will the subscription substantively add of value that the customers would be willing to pay for?

Nothing. (The service better be top notch. Customers will leave in droves.)

3) What happens to beta testing?

4 upvotes
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

"Their response to the backlash to CC implies that they have a fundamental lack of knowledge in their customer base."

No, sir, you lack knowledge of how CEO's think. CEO's are smart. They predicted how the crowd would respond. Their job is to trample you in disdain. When they decide strategy, they discuss these things, how you are going to respond. Then they decide, we just have to screw them because it's about profits.

The 80/20 principle says that most profits come from a small core of buyers. You are part of Adobe's 80%. This CEO is gambling that they can screw the 20% and discard the 80%. The 20% are in a jam because the industry runs on Adobe software. And, as far as the hobby photographers, they can take a running jump.

These CEOs can sleep at night with such a decision because money is the sole criteria of their success. So many of, in fact, the vast majority of posters here think that their remonstrations will shock Adobe. No. Adobe doesn't care a stuff.

4 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

" CEO's are smart."

ORLY? like the CEO of YAHOO? HP? Microsoft? Kodak? Best Buy? Lehman Brothers? they're smart enough to run these companies into the ground and bail out on a golden parachute, sticking it to low level employees and customers.

i name MS here because of the total lack of vision regarding windows 8. Vista and ME were poorly implemented ideas, 8 is proof of not understanding what your company does to make money.

2 upvotes
Optimus47
By Optimus47 (11 months ago)

@40daystogo

I'm not too sure how much of your response was sarcastic...

If not sarcastic, I respectfully disagree. I would say that "some" CEO's are smart. Some CEO's make bad profit driven decisions.

I would also argue that the truly "smart" CEO's are the ones that publicly convince customers to switch business models on the basis that it is in the customer's best interest, while still profiting from it.

Adobe has lost this part of the public relations battle for both the 20% and 80%.

The good thing is that thanks to capitalism, at some point, a competitor will make an alternative for the 20%. Goodbye customers.

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (11 months ago)

I think that what will be left is at 1st year some 20%
after the price goes up maybe 5%
and then even the rest switches to another software
Adobe just hung itself...

2 upvotes
EssexAsh
By EssexAsh (11 months ago)

wow, dpreview are really milking this story, surely theres a camera phone somewhere that needs your attention now?

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

If this doesn't affect you, maybe a camera phone is all you need.

6 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

well, have there been any constant f1.4 14-300mm zoom lens with near perfect optical quality for m4/3 this week? that's about the only thing that would attract this kind of attention.

0 upvotes
hotdog321
By hotdog321 (11 months ago)

If the new CC is so great, why not give users a dual option: periodic standalone Photoshop upgrades like normal and/or the CC? A company the size of Adobe can easily do both.

The piracy issue is a non-issue. I personally know several people who got their hands on unlicensed copies, used it for awhile, then purchased Photoshop because they liked it. Others eventually erased it off their computers because the learning curve was too steep or they just didn't need it.

I can only infer that this is an arrogant money grab. I'll continue using my licensed CS6, but I won't be doing the CC thing.

9 upvotes
MPA1
By MPA1 (11 months ago)

None of the above. There are better products and I have been using them for years.

2 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (11 months ago)

Nice, but an uninteresting answer in this context :)

1 upvote
jorgedeepsea
By jorgedeepsea (11 months ago)

http://youtu.be/67Iw9q2X9cU

7 upvotes
BSweeney
By BSweeney (11 months ago)

Right now, my biggest concern is that Corel did not implement linear DNG mode in their photo processing software.

How about a poll of what Corel needs to add to their Photo processing suite?

3 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

You could have known beforehand that DNG was not so 'open' as Adobe told you.

Remember its an Adobe standard trying to suck you into a standard they own and want to milk themselves.

5 upvotes
SemperAugustus
By SemperAugustus (11 months ago)

Convert all DNGs to TIFF using a PS Script....Also, I hope that you did not deleted your original RAWs.

2 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (11 months ago)

Mac compatibility would be an obvious feature.

1 upvote
RobNZ
By RobNZ (11 months ago)

I don't see how this model would suit many commercial users either. If you're working to a deadline the last thing you'd want is the software being updated under you. Menu items moving around to accommodate new features, tools suddenly working subtly differently - quite apart from the potential for an unforseen problem with an update borking your work at a critical moment. That's why many big organisations are ultra conservative about updating their OS - some even still use XP because it's a known quantity.

They'll choose to update and if necessary retrain staff at a time that suits them. Having the vendor constantly fiddling with the program strikes me as a BOFHs (and users) total nightmare!

Madness.

11 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (11 months ago)

I've just subscribed to it and it doesn't install updates unless you go to the Adobe Manager and click 'install updates', just like updating apps in iTunes.

All it does otherwise is say there's an update available for whichever app, so you don't have to install any updates you don't want to.

0 upvotes
Andrei Nicoara
By Andrei Nicoara (11 months ago)

I can tell you from first-hand experience that professional users of Photoshop (and InDesign) did :
- upgrade rarely (I know agencies that are happy to use CS4) for monetary and compatibility reasons
- preferred to upgrade on periods of fewer projects
- upgrade case-by-case: for example we upgraded a colleague Creative Suite only when agencies and printers moved to CS6

so at least based on my experience the move to Creative Cloud is annoying, expensive and risky (for us, not Adobe)

4 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (11 months ago)

I think the 'Creative Cloud' connection is a bit misleading. That part of it appears to me at first glance to be all the online file storage and sharing and interaction stuff, while the actual software itself like Photoshop etc installed on your computer doesn't appear to be reliant at all on any cloud as it is still the same as before, ie you just download and install it or any subsequent update only when you want or need to.

0 upvotes
bobbarber
By bobbarber (11 months ago)

I feel the need to post that Gimp's current development version, 2.9, works in 16 and 32 bit color per channel. It will soon be released as 2.10, with 16 and 32 bit color in the stable version.

It seems that the Adobe paid posters have "Gimp is 8-bit color" in their talking points, which, by the way, is another useful way to spot them.

16 upvotes
Andrei Nicoara
By Andrei Nicoara (11 months ago)

GIMP is a very good and mature graphic editing tool.
However there are no alternatives to InDesign and/or Premiere.
At least not at such a mature state that agencies and clients routinely use them.

3 upvotes
Marcin 3M
By Marcin 3M (11 months ago)

Option for indesign is or may be the scribus.

0 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

@Andrei Nocoara

There is a very good alternative for Indesign, its called Quark Express. It was on top of the market until Adobe made a smart move back then - Now the opposite will happen and many will go back to Quark I am pretty sure about that.

3 upvotes
bobbarber
By bobbarber (11 months ago)

Yes, Scribus for desktop publishing and Cinelerra for video.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

"However there are no alternatives to InDesign and/or Premiere. " Dunno about InDesign, but I have to tell you you're wrong about Premiere. I like it and use it, but more pros use Avid or Final Cut. Avid for movies, and FCP in the smaller production houses and in TV environments like mine. Many consider Premiere a step above Vegas (which is also good in its own way) but Premiere is AT LEAST a poor third, or was until Apple, f***ed up FCP X.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (11 months ago)

Good to know about the near FUTURE Gimp for windows
I'm going give the Gimp 2.10 a try
Currently 2.8.4

1 upvote
MAC
By MAC (11 months ago)

This is a public relations nightmare on Adobe's part. Put the software back into a box sold at their Adobe Store. Secure it with a USB hardware dongle with encryption. Adobe knows how to do this, they did it with Adobe Capture version II scanning software. Problem solved.

6 upvotes
David & Katherine Barto
By David & Katherine Barto (11 months ago)

As long as the dongle doesn't have a expiration date associated with it!

1 upvote
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

No, the Adobe CEO does not see this as a PR nightmare. Read the DPR interview carefully. They predicted it, and assumed it would be worse. Actually, this is a cold-blooded decision to cut loose those customers that only upgrade once every 3-4 upgrade cycles, and gouge those who are literally locked into Adobe because of professional needs. You must understand this, otherwise you won't understand what Adobe are saying in their interviews. They knew people like us would hate this, but it is part of their plan to lighten the load. Force out the infrequent upgraders, and price gouge the regulars. In doing so, Adobe establishes a constant stream of income rather than ups and downs. Do you now understand why you don't matter to Adobe?

3 upvotes
BerendZ
By BerendZ (11 months ago)

It looks like Adobe wants to fund the development of their other applications by collecting subscription fees from photographers.
I guess that if they do a proper market analysis they will realize that the vast majority of Photoshop buyers are not professional photographers running a succesfull photography business. (And able to charge the monthly fee to their customers)
And this majority is not primarily interested in the other creative cloud applications and technologies that Adobe offers as a price justification.
If you divide the upgrade price of Adobe Photoshop by the number of months in-between versions you end up with lower monthly costs. And even much lower if you can skip a version.
Adobe certainly has lost my trust.

0 upvotes
robneil
By robneil (11 months ago)

Rot in hell, Adobe - and all who sail in her.

4 upvotes
epo001
By epo001 (11 months ago)

All this endless whining. Adobe don't want to sell me any upgrades? Fine, I'll continue to use CS3 until the competition improves. If you have CS it will continue to work, what's the problem?

Most non-commerical users don't NEED Photoshop, it is just a name they've heard or they are fetishising the most polished toy, rather like people who buy a sports car and just use it to drive to the shops.

3 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (11 months ago)

Yeah, existing installations of CSx (or even, as in my case, Photoshop 7) will work on ... UNTIL, of course, you need RAW support for your new camera ... or Windows 9 drops support for the 32-bit version you have been relying on ... or ...

3 upvotes
Spunjji
By Spunjji (11 months ago)

"All this endless whining"

Yes, it's almost like people have a genuine reason to be irritated by a change that doesn't benefit them in the slightest.

0 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

RAW support is the least thing you should be worried about. There are many applications that do a better job then Lightroom or ACR for RAW conversion.

0 upvotes
David & Katherine Barto
By David & Katherine Barto (11 months ago)

RAW can be converted to DNG for newer cameras that CSx doesn't support using the DNG converter which has always been a free download from Adobe in the past.
Not saying that this won't change though. You know because of piracy and stuff.

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (11 months ago)

It certainly WILL change !
The greediness demands it !
Upgrades to CC subscribers only - after one year
Maybe Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, etc
should join together to build a new software

1 upvote
Meiki67
By Meiki67 (11 months ago)

Although I'll never would buy software with this model I welcome the new approach of Adobe - simply because the offer and quality of the competitors will increase (I use Topaz and Nik with LR).
I'm only afraid that quickly Adobe will understand the mistake they made and will return to the previous model.

9 upvotes
jberk
By jberk (11 months ago)

You're not buying under this model. You are renting and if you stop paying rent you get evicted. That is the issue and there is no reason to welcome such an approach when they renege on their previous commitment to make the software available using to different approaches.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
goman100
By goman100 (11 months ago)

Going the way of Windows 8. Microsoft is now in the process of making Windows 8 desktop friendly. Adobe, it appears, will be going the same route. This is good for them but, not for us. If sales drop, and I hope they do, they will sing a different tune as is Microsoft.

0 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (11 months ago)

Yes, but Microsoft never RENTED the Windows 8 per monthly fee
AND the upgrade was extremely affordable
plus: press the Window Key on the keyboard
and you switch between Desktop and full Start Screen
I also bought StarDocks MixedMode for less than 5 USD
and now the new appllications appear as windows on my desktop

1 upvote
dougster1979
By dougster1979 (11 months ago)

This is very worrying. What if Apple, Dxo....do the same. The worlds economy is going down the pan, businesses can`t be sustained. Hence the introduction of compulsory subscriptions. This is a very bad president. It wouldn`t surprise me if Adobe is the first of many.

4 upvotes
Scorpius1
By Scorpius1 (11 months ago)

Apple is a hardware company...

0 upvotes
dougster1979
By dougster1979 (11 months ago)

Itunes,aperture...

1 upvote
TakenUserName
By TakenUserName (11 months ago)

Microsoft also started with that model with their Office subscription for up to 5 computers. While you can still buy the individual package, they did away with the 3 user family/student pack - now limited to 1 computer. While the regular Office retail boxes have historically been 1 computer, don't know if the eliminate the 1+ option where same user could install on PC and laptop. Just trying to force everybody with multiple computers to the web and send Microsoft $99/year.

2 upvotes
MPA1
By MPA1 (11 months ago)

I thought George Bush was a bad president?

3 upvotes
dougster1979
By dougster1979 (11 months ago)

Microsoft is a good example. In my opinion in 10 years time all data will be stored on the web, ie cloud.....which opens the door to compulsory charges/subscriptions. In the short term Adobe may suffer, people will move to alternatives. But eventually, the alternatives will do the same.

0 upvotes
jberk
By jberk (11 months ago)

Yes it is

0 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

@Dougster

I think you are totally wrong.
Yes everything will be in the cloud 'Your personal cloud' which is called a NAS.

My Synology is doing a great job as for my personal cloud. I don't see the need to pay up to 200 dollars yearly for just 100 Gig while I can have 4 Terrabytes for 300 dollars and NO annual fee.

Comment edited 57 seconds after posting
1 upvote
dougster1979
By dougster1979 (11 months ago)

Will you have access to hard drive storage in the future? Will you have the choice?... My point is if internet based storage becomes the only option, it would be quite easy to force the general populous to pay forced subscriptions. Another removal of freedoms. Just a theory, my opinion, i`m probably totally wrong.

0 upvotes
SemperAugustus
By SemperAugustus (11 months ago)

Most SW companies will offer the rent as an alternative and NOT as the ONLY way to have access to their products. Those who do will certainly suffer, because the reality is that people cannot add monthly bills one after the other. I know I can't, so under the current model when the times are good you splurge and get something that you know you can use for many years. The rent only you would get ONLY a couple of things....they industry would not survive is that simple.

0 upvotes
dougster1979
By dougster1979 (11 months ago)

"Most SW companies will offer the rent as an alternative and NOT as the ONLY way to have access to their products"
Well Adobe dont share your point of view. If other companies follow the same model, then software will only available to people who can afford it. Its a change from the free availability of software to all(ie photography, music, and the internet in general) to software only available to those who can afford it. Immoral yes, but do Adobe or any other company care about morals or do they care about profits.

1 upvote
Falconest174
By Falconest174 (11 months ago)

Then when the worldwide economy takes a dive in about 5-10 years, and nobody has anything on site, you are all shafted with nothing to show for it but a piece of hardware that can't do anything with all the 'live' licenses shut down because they can't validate.( Up DOS forever! <That's a joke son>)

0 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

"Then when the worldwide economy takes a dive in about 5-10 years"

where have you been since 2008? i agree with the rest of what you said, but you make it sound like it's all rosy and ever-growing profits right now.

0 upvotes
Falconest174
By Falconest174 (11 months ago)

Didn't think it was rosy, now I just lost my regular job 7 weeks ago due to economic pressures (loss of a major contract by my employer). If it wasn't for SS and a small pension I would be in a real hole.I would have to seriously consider cutting back on some luxcessities (coined word). Had I depended on PS for photographic editing and some side income, I could be in a world of hurt. As it is, I usually use ACDSee Pro 6 for almost all of my editing and rarely use my installed 'legal' copy of Elements 10. Were I to start shooting RAW it might be a different thing altogether.

0 upvotes
agentul
By agentul (11 months ago)

protip: cameras come with bundled raw converters.

0 upvotes
Scorpius1
By Scorpius1 (11 months ago)

A lot of people will switch to capture one pro now or DXO optics elite,Adobe have no respect for the customer's so the user's should take their custom somewhere else... PhotoNinja is another very good alternative..

3 upvotes
JEROME NOLAS
By JEROME NOLAS (11 months ago)

This will be a great service for Hasseblad Lunar owners...

8 upvotes
MPA1
By MPA1 (11 months ago)

Both of them...

5 upvotes
Total comments: 2478
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