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Sigma issues advisory on lens compatibility with Nikon D5300

By dpreview staff on Nov 19, 2013 at 11:50 GMT

Sigma has posted a statement on its website regarding incompatibilities between its lenses and the Nikon D5300. Lenses with built-in focus motors may not autofocus correctly in Live View mode, and Optical Stabilisation (OS) may not work correctly. The company says it will provide a free firmware update for affected lenses to fix the issue, but this may not be possible with discontinued models.

Sigma's statement:

Information Regarding the Nikon D5300 Cameras

Thank you very much for purchasing and using Sigma products.

We have found that the current firmware of our Nikon fitting interchangeable lenses may not work properly with the Nikon D5300’s OS and Live View Auto Focus functions.

For those customers who own Sigma lenses in Nikon mount, we are going to provide a free firmware update service.

Please note that all the products we dispatch from the factory will have the latest firmware.

Phenomenon

Without the latest firmware, the OS and Live View Auto Focus functions do not work properly when it is used with the Nikon D5300.

Concerned Products

Nikon fitting interchangeable lenses that incorporate an internal motor

  • Firmware upgrade cannot be applied to the lenses that do not have an internal motor.
  • For some discontinued products, we may not be able to offer the firmware update due to the discontinuation of related repair parts. Please contact your nearest authorized Sigma distributor for the further details.

Support

For those customers in need of the latest firmware, we are going to provide free firmware update from November 20th. For discontinued products, please contact your nearest authorized Sigma distributor for the further details.

For lenses that are compatible with the SIGMA USB DOCK, it is possible to update them via SIGMA Optimization Pro.

For detailed information on the SIGMA USB DOCK, please find it from the below link;
http://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/cas/product/usb.html

For the detailed information on the SIGMA Optimization Pro, please find it from the below link;
http://www.sigma-global.com/download/en/index.html

Local Service Center

You can contact your nearest authorized Sigma distributor for the firmware update.
From the link below, you can see where to contact in our world network.
http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/network/index.html

Compatibility Sticker

We are going to put the sticker to all Nikon fitting lenses that we will dispatch from the factory from now on.

Source: Sigma

Comments

Total comments: 88
rtogog
By rtogog (4 months ago)

SIGMA should offer new camera that accept any lens from major manufacturer with mount adapter.

0 upvotes
wakaba
By wakaba (5 months ago)

what exactly is the advantage of an USB port on a lens? None? Planned obsolence? Hell yea. Not buying.

Anyway, APS is on the way out. To small. Soon phones will do aswell for quickpics and quickflixs.

0 upvotes
dreis911
By dreis911 (5 months ago)

I don't know why Sigma announces this ONLY NOW, because Sigma's 17-70 (non OS) was already incompatible with my D5100 - It doesn't auto-focus in LiveView.
Now, the shame is that none of them will do anything... (not that they're obliged to it) :(

0 upvotes
Toshik
By Toshik (5 months ago)

Did you try to send it to your Local Service Center to update lens firmware?

0 upvotes
Fahd
By Fahd (5 months ago)

Does this affect the Sigma 10-20 f/4-5.6 DC HSM?

0 upvotes
inframan
By inframan (5 months ago)

I just spoke with a technician at Sigma HQ in NY. He said current releases of this lens are not backward compatible (i.e. will not work properly) but all new versions being shipped from Japan with the label "D5300 Compatible" will work.

Comment edited 42 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Toshik
By Toshik (5 months ago)

The question is will old versions work after firmware upgrade in sigma service center or not?

0 upvotes
inframan
By inframan (5 months ago)

Not "old" versions of the 10-20mm. There apparently isn't a "firmware" upgrade (i.e. not backward-compatible), according to the tech I spoke with at Sigma. Not sure there's any upgradable firmware in the lens itself. Probably just in the new dock. None of this has been very clear on DPR (especially in these fora) or in the releases, which is why I called them.

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (5 months ago)

Ha. Sounds very much like compatibility problems the FourThirds lenses had on MicroFourThirds bodies: AF was all over the place. That's CDAF vs. PDAF compatibility for you. Oly and Panny fixed it with the lens firmware updates. But even after the update, the lenses would AF slowly in the live view mode anyway. Their motors were not intended to work with CDAF.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (5 months ago)

Saying that Nikon is not under obligation to maintain compatibility with 3rd party products is beside the point. Yes, they are not. In the same way as Microsoft is not under obligation to maintain compatibility with 3rd-party applications when they release a new version of Windows. They are not "under obligation" (hell, they are not under obligation to even stay in business), but breaking compatibility hurts their customers and reduces value of their own product (D5300 in that case) - and hurting your own customers is not a great way to stay in business.

0 upvotes
rrccad
By rrccad (5 months ago)

do you realize how many apps broke with vista? or windows 7? or windows 8?

very poor analogy.

1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (5 months ago)

That is one piece of information for those who think that Nikon and Canon has large lens systems when talking about their APS-C lines. No they do not, native systems are pretty poor. And 3rd party is not much help because camera firmwares do not support them, do not autocorrect vignetting, situation, CA, and might not even focus right and break compatibility at any time.
Do they have good systems? Yes, for FF. Can you use the lenses on APS-C? Kind of - at the wrong angles (like superexpensive UWA zooms are not UWA anymore), at the wrong sharpness profile (most FF lenses are not sharp enough in the center for higher pixel density of APS-C), at the wrong size, weight and cost.
Compare to m43, which is a standard - nobody has to reverse-engineer it, everything just works, and the system is much bigger than Nikon DX or Canon EF-S already, and all the lenses are of right size and weight, although not all have right price. ;)

0 upvotes
samfan
By samfan (5 months ago)

Exactly! I'm not actually a fan of m43, but Canon and Nikon are slowly digging their own grave by boycotting 3rd party lenses when they don't provide their own.

DSLRs may still be the kings of sales right now in conservative markets, but so were FSLRs. All it needs is a good enough camera from Oly or Sony supported by good marketing to kick Canikon out of the ring.

0 upvotes
hydrospanner
By hydrospanner (5 months ago)

APS is not a standard but m43 is?

Okay buddy...whatever you say...

1 upvote
samfan
By samfan (5 months ago)

BTW I don't believe for a second that Tamron and Tokina are 'licensing' the Nikon mount. First, both these brands have had lenses with legendary compatibility/AF issues on Nikon mount (Tamron 17-50/2.8, Tokina 11-16/2.8 to name one from each). Second, when Nikon introduced D40 without its own AF motor, it were Tamron and Tokina caught empty handed with no compatible AF lenses, unlike Sigma which already had HSM lenses.

And that's THE Tamron, which used to (maybe still does) manufacture some lenses and license its designs to Nikon.

Besides we're talking about Nikon here - the company that encrypted their white balance values in their RAW files so competition couldn't read them, only their (terrible) software. Even if they did offer some licensing deals to 3rd party lens manufacturers, it would most likely be a contract with the devil.

Man I didn't even realize how much I'm fed up with the company I spent so much money on. Seriously go to hell Nikon.

3 upvotes
Vitruvius
By Vitruvius (5 months ago)

Same story from Sigma over and over. Must have replaced some of their software staff with optical designers because they sure are good optically for the price.

0 upvotes
Toshik
By Toshik (5 months ago)

UPDATE: They've partially fixed it for new lenses:

35mm F1.4 DG HSM A012 NIKON
17-70mm F2.8-4 DC MACRO OS HSM C013 NIKON
30mm F1.4 DC HSM A013 NIKON
18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM A013 NIKON
120-300mm F2.8 DG OS HSM S013 NIKON

via firmware update through usb dock.

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/new/new_topic.php?id=404

Still unknown how will they fix other lenses without sending them back to factory to upgrade firmware .
But i heard recent rumors that they're planning to make usb dock compatible with older lenses with HSM motor.

http://sigma-rumors.com/2013/11/older-sigma-lenses-compatible-usb-dock/

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Ben Ramsey
By Ben Ramsey (5 months ago)

Good news. There doubtlessly have been numerous sales sigma lost over the years due to potential compatibility issues. Sigma really seems to be sorting out those issues and producing some really excellent lenses lately. That's good for all uf us.

0 upvotes
Jeff Morris
By Jeff Morris (5 months ago)

Lets face it, you buy a third party lenses, You are always at risk, it has always been that way. Don't get mad at Nikon. People here act as though Nikon has a some kind of ethical responsibility to provide some kind of open architecture to other manufacturers, they don't.
I
As far as Sigma goes, they have has QC Issues for years. Now they up their game, people want their product and there are compatibility issues, well all I can say say is "Buyer Beware".

Now Fuji has been welcoming third party manufacturers with open arms. They even include Zeiss lenses in their own lens roadmap. Four thirds has promoted the format by advertising wide compatibility across manufacturers platforms with Four Thirds lenses as a way to attract more buyers.

This said, none of this surprises me in the least.

3 upvotes
unknown member
By (unknown member) (5 months ago)

I've always wondered: If any of the OEM manufacturers wanted to play hardball with the Tamrons and Sigmas, etc., why wouldn't they encode their cameras to just make it next to impossible to use anything except their own lenses on their cameras? I would think it would not be hard for Canon or Nikon to include code that would make life very difficult for aftermarket lenses (or flashes for that matter).

0 upvotes
ZorSy
By ZorSy (5 months ago)

Perhaps this (from Wiki): United States antitrust law is a collection of federal and state government laws, which regulates the conduct and organization of business corporations, generally to promote fair competition for the benefit of consumers. The main statutes are the Sherman Act 1890, the Clayton Act 1914 and the Federal Trade Commission Act 1914. These Acts, first, restrict the formation of cartels and prohibit other collusive practices regarded as being in restraint of trade. Second, they restrict the mergers and acquisitions of organizations which could substantially lessen competition. Third, they prohibit the creation of a monopoly and the abuse of monopoly power"
And other countries may have it the same way, so to feed the wolves and keep all the sheep... just throw the junior Sheppard in the story...

0 upvotes
fz750
By fz750 (5 months ago)

Doesn't seem to bother Apple, lightning connector with a chip inside etc..

0 upvotes
sglewis
By sglewis (5 months ago)

ZorSy - those don't apply. The same way Apple is allowed to have a closed ecosystem (only their app store is permitted, and accessories are supposed to be licensed), Nikon could CHOOSE to close their ecosystem. Nikon is permitted to have a monopoly on Nikon DSLR accessories, since the DSLR market itself is not monopolized.

0 upvotes
ZorSy
By ZorSy (5 months ago)

Are we supposed to be surprised about this? Some of us had been pointing "something going on" since D80, the first model that had issues with Sigma OS HSM lenses. Back then, the first lot of D80s had problem even with Nikon VR lenses - they update Firmware. D90 came, again FW update for power module. With D7K it was obvious that power module has been tweaked not to provide enough juice for Sigma OS HSM lenses in particular in LV, where the power consumption on camera itself gets higher. I own D7100 but no longer have any OS sigma, nor dare to get any. I would eventually consider 50-150 OS or perhaps 70-200 OS but I KNOW sooner or later there could be a problem. The way I see it that Sigma, with its improved quality and lens choice, poses as significant treat to Nikon own lens lineup. As long as Tamron keeps low profile, they are safe...but bet my last $5 Nikon would play them the same...For the sake of consumers I hope Sigma resolves this alone..

1 upvote
samfan
By samfan (5 months ago)

BTW one funny fact from not so distant history:

There was an issue with Nikon's AF-C and Sigma HSM lenses. Namely, when you're in AF-C and override the AF by turning the focus ring (on AF-S/HSM lenses), the camera should stop focusing. With Sigma's HSM, the camera would just continue focusing like nothing happens.

Of course, Nikon only blamed Sigma and recommended their own lenses.

Well guess what? When they introduced their 18-135mm, their first AF-S with micro-motor instead of SWM, it would act exactly the same way! You couldn't override AF in AF-C mode. Nikon blamed Sigma for something which they couldn't figure out for their own lenses.

And BTW Nikon's backward compatibility is actually nothing spectacular. Yes you can usually mount anything on anything, but if the camera and lens are far enough apart, something will not work. Look at Pentax and their massive compatibility with MF, LF, m42 and whatnot.

2 upvotes
samfan
By samfan (5 months ago)

When I was picking my DSLR brand in 2006, I chose Nikon over Canon. One of the reason was that Nikons always perfectly worked with 3rd party lenses, unlike Canon which used to have constant focusing problems with Sigma lenses.

And for years I've been using 3rd party lenses without problem, happy with picking Nikon.

Today? Screw Nikon. Most my favorite lenses are Sigmas. Honestly I'll rather switch to the Sigma SD1 than buy another Nikon DSLR and not be able to use lenses such as 50-150/2.8, 30/1.4 or 8-16mm. Especially since Nikon completely dumps on DX users and doesn't provide any alternative to these.

I also bought a V1 since there's nothing else like it but it's gonna be a cold day in hell when I buy a FT1 only for overpriced Nikon lenses.

2 upvotes
Karl Gnter Wnsch
By Karl Gnter Wnsch (5 months ago)

Well you chose the system for all the wrong reasons... It wasn't Canon who did something wrong, it was Sigmas fault back then and it again is Sigmas fault today because they chose not to license the respective specifications but rather reverse engineer them, which is going to be prone to omissions due to as of yet unused but well specified features within the internal standard of cameras and lenses of the OEM...

4 upvotes
samfan
By samfan (5 months ago)

More like I chose the wrong system altogether. Should've gone with Pentax. Only if they had some decent weather sealed kit zoom back in 2006.

But these days, if I'd be choosing my first DSLR system, I'd go with Sigma no contest.

0 upvotes
Paphios
By Paphios (5 months ago)

This is probably due to the D5300 being the first Nikon camera with the new EXPEED4 processor.

1 upvote
Maff maff
By Maff maff (5 months ago)

I own a Sony A33 with 3 Tamron lenses. 17-50/2,8; 18-270 and an older 18-200. All of them worked perfectly fine on the A. Than I added the Sony adapted LA-EA 2 to my two NEXes and can tell you that only the 18-270 was able to focus any more. The screw driven lenses gave up. This surprises me because Sony clamed for the adapter to use the same technology for focusing as the A33/55 including the use of an screw driving motor.

At the end of the day you alleays have to await surprises if you left the OEM business case.

I personaly by a system as a howl. A good third party selection is raising my interest. So I turned to MFT to be rid of this issue.

1 upvote
antares103
By antares103 (5 months ago)

Why the hate on Nikon? If anything, it is Sigma's responsibility, as they did not ask Nikon to use their mounts, but made the promise of lens compatibility. This is not the first time this has happened, nor the first brand.

I have seen Minolta Maxxum 7 compatibility stickers
I have seen Sony A33 and A55 compatibility stickers
I have seen Canon EOS something or other (film camera) compatibility stickers
And now Nikon. And there are probably others.

It happens, and Sigma is doing what it can to rectify the problem, and did a fine job on my Sony updates.

7 upvotes
marleni
By marleni (5 months ago)

The TIMING is interesting: just when Sigma got a lot of praise and appreciation for their recent lens 18-35 f 1,8 (the Nikon version is just out) and rumors have a list of up to 8 Sigma lenses of similar quality coming in 2014, the NEWEST camera of Nikon does not support the Sigma lenses...
Also interesting that Sigma has to update its firmware for its lenses and not Nikon for its one camera...
now the latter get a lot of negative publicity for free

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
7 upvotes
ceaiu
By ceaiu (5 months ago)

Why is everyone assuming only Sigma is affected? Maybe they're the only ones (or just the first) to have a fix.

3 upvotes
Spectro
By Spectro (5 months ago)

it been known that Sigma reverse engineer their mount compatibility (some lawsuit they won in the 70s or80s). For Tokina and Tamron it isn't an issues. They license their stuff with Nikon and other camera makers, so they are on the same protocal. If a Tamron lenses don't work (AF, meter) on a nikon then a nikkor won't work either. That is why sigma came out with the usb firmware update/micro adjustment dock when other don't need too.

So nikon updating their protocal on newer camera will inform license members. Since sigma isn't, they just have to keep up, reverse engineering.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Revenant
By Revenant (5 months ago)

Actually, Sigma, Tamron and Tokina all do reverse engineering. except for Sony E-mount (an open standard), and m4/3 (open to consortium members). The other mounts are reverse engineered. Canon and Nikon certainly don't license their lens protocols to anyone.
Why Tamron and Tokina lenses aren't as problematic as Sigma's, I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure they're all reverse engineered.

2 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (5 months ago)

When I worked in retail, the most compatibility issues (such as "FEE" error) where with Tamron. Happened with both Canon and Nikon mounts. The most quality problems overall were Sigma. Not one problem with Tokina but to be fair, there were fewer Tokinas available so we sold fewer.

0 upvotes
dholl
By dholl (5 months ago)

Spectro, can you provide a link which backs up your claim that Tamron/Tokina are part of Nikon's lens protocol? I took your word for it as the explanation makes sense, but Revenant seems to disagree.

Sigma's most well-known issue is how their analogue-era AF lenses can't stop down on all Canon DSLR's made after 2002. They've got history with issues like this. I hope they sort it out ASAP. And that includes discontinued lenses.

Otherwise, no matter how good their glass has been lately, they'll lose sales via lost consumer confidence (tho' this is something Nikon have been losing too thanks to poor QC in their camera bodies lately).

1 upvote
PicOne
By PicOne (5 months ago)

Spectro.. you do know that Nikon/Canon etc.. offer micro adjustment in their own bodies in order to work correctly with their own lenses?

0 upvotes
Peter A. Stavrakoglou
By Peter A. Stavrakoglou (5 months ago)

Spectro, the camera makers do not license their lens protocols to anyone, including Tamron and Tokina.

1 upvote
Spectro
By Spectro (5 months ago)

I heard argument of both. Never google anything that is worth enough to use as evident. I don't work for nikon or sigma so I won't ever know the insider business deal/ patient, just a hobbyist.
I was told by two difference local camera stores camera salemen the same story. Why they don't carry sigma, but tamron and tokina. They said sigma reverse engineer their stuff and they have more issues customer keep on returning it so they stop carrying sigma and the other store flat out won't carry sigma, but same RE story. Nikon has sued sigma over so many patients, but they really go after tamron or tokina. Tamron has their vc (VR) but they always go after sigma for some mysterious reason.

0 upvotes
Spectro
By Spectro (5 months ago)

I bought 2 sigma (1 stop working after a week so i returned it for something else) My other sigma have AF hunting issues quite a bit (still my best portrait lens, tad soft, but ok with that for portrait). My 2 tamrons work fine. My one tokina works fine. Never have issues with nikkor. until I see a definitive info I can't say what is true, but the wife tale is sigma RE, tamron and tokina license it.

Yes my 2 nikon have micro adjustment, so I thought it was odd why sigma came out with a usb firmware micro adjustment hub. I guess it is really for firmware update, again why don't tamron or sigma offer a usb hub..they don't need too?

0 upvotes
KentG
By KentG (5 months ago)

Sorry but both Tokina and Tamron pay licensing fees to just about all the camera makers that don't have an open standard mount. Camera makers, including Nikon, are willing to make a buck just like everyone else. Most don't know that the Big 4 (Canon, Nikon, Minolta, and Pentax) have had a cross licensing agreement on their patents for at least 4 decades.
Sigma on the otherhand, due to the lawsuit they won, can only reverse engineer everything (except open standard mounts). And occasionally when a new camera comes out the OEM may change some responses in the code table and may make Sigma lenses erratic. Whether intentional or not I don't know. At least until Sigma can figure out the changes and redo a firmware fix. As far as I know any Sigma DG lens should be fixable, but I know absolutely that any non-DG lens will not be fixable. I have an analog era Sigma 100-300/4 EX HSM IF in Canon that still works with bodies upto and including the 60D but have not tried it on anything later.

0 upvotes
Peter A. Stavrakoglou
By Peter A. Stavrakoglou (5 months ago)

Chuck Westfall of Canon has gone on the record stating that Canon has never licensed their EF lens protocol to anyone. No third party lens maker has any license agreement with Canon.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Marcos Villaroman
By Marcos Villaroman (5 months ago)

Nikon can do whatever it wants with its lens to camera interfaces. The incompatibility might be driven by something other than deliberate sabotage of 3rd party lens. There's plenty of reasons why the D5300 is slightly different from other bodies, starting with slight changes in components.

Point is, Nikon doesn't have to waste resources to confirm whatever they do to their firmware remains compatible with Sigma's products.

It is Sigma who has to make sure it maintains compatibility moving forward. Sigma seems to be doing that with reprogram-ability capabilities of their newer lens.

Both Nikon and Canon makes a lot of money selling old lens designs and providing certain levels of consistent service throughout the lifetime of their products. If we don't like to live with it, we could go to micro-4/3rds that have an open standards, Sony, etc. Personally, I don't Nikon or Canon sucks enough to force a system change --- yet.

15 upvotes
cordellwillis
By cordellwillis (5 months ago)

+1 Marcos.

It amazes me that people think Nikon (or any other company for that matter) should always look after the "competition" in regards to it's own products. If Nikon finds a way to advance it's technology and provide consumers with something positive should they not make it available because an outsider's product isn't compatible? If you believe they should do everything they can to meet compatibility for outsiders you might want to remember this when nothing new comes along....after all, everything can't be backwards compatible and we have to move on.

You still have a choice; only buy what is still compatible with Sigma lenses if that's what YOU want to use.

2 upvotes
Samuel Dilworth
By Samuel Dilworth (5 months ago)

Marcos said: “Point is, Nikon doesn't have to waste resources to confirm whatever they do to their firmware remains compatible with Sigma's products.”

We’re in agreement then. You want Nikon to stop testing because Nikon owes nothing to Sigma, and I want Nikon to stop testing because Nikon shouldn’t waste money (charged to customers, of course) breaking compatibility with third-party lenses – something that harms its own customers in several ways.

If the mount specification had changed for some genuinely useful reason, Nikon would be hyping it to the ceiling. It isn’t, of course. Let’s not encourage harmful behaviour by being wilfully naïve.

And while we’re at it, let’s not use “moving forward” in real conversation. [Shudder.]

1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (5 months ago)

"Nikon can do whatever it wants with its lens to camera interfaces"

True, and we can do whatever we want with our money.

1 upvote
Erik Magnuson
By Erik Magnuson (5 months ago)

Much of the discussion seems to be on Nikon's motive for the change. Did Nikon simply improve the D5300's liveview focus capability (i.e. speed or smoothness) in a way compatible with Nikon OEM lenses? Or did they make an arbitrary change primarily to break Sigma lenses? How much responsibility does Nikon have to support all features of non-Nikon lenses? Should they spend development money testing every feature with every 3rd party lens? Just some lenses? Should they hold back improvements until 3rd parties upgrade all their products?

2 upvotes
inframan
By inframan (5 months ago)

Why all the conspiracy theories? If this was a concerted effort on Nikon's part to sabotage Sigma lenses, why would they only implement it on the d5300? Makes no sense given its relatively small share of the market.

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting
7 upvotes
groucher
By groucher (5 months ago)

Nor would Nikon risk the introduction of compatibility problems with existing lenses. One of the many attractions of buying into the Nikon system is their commitment to backwards compatibility. Seems to be Sigma's problem to me.

0 upvotes
white shadow
By white shadow (5 months ago)

Its not Nikon's problem. They have no obligation to provide third party manufacturers with any data to make their lenses. This is one of the main consequences when using third party auto-focus lenses.

If one uses a manual focus lens like Zeiss, this problem does not arise.

Best to use original lenses (or even flash) for best result.

9 upvotes
Frank_BR
By Frank_BR (5 months ago)

Wake up Nikon! Now the threat is Sony, not Sigma.

Moreover, when Nikon acts that way, it is screwing up its own customers, not Sigma.

8 upvotes
cordellwillis
By cordellwillis (5 months ago)

"act" what way? You mean working on their own products for THEIR products?

Comment edited 10 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Frank_BR
By Frank_BR (5 months ago)

Try to explain that to anyone who has a nice collection of Sigma lenses that always worked beautifully with Nikons previous to the D5300.

2 upvotes
antares103
By antares103 (5 months ago)

Um...You realize Sony had cameras that were not compatible with sigma lenses right? While Sony may be (become) a challenger, it is not because of this

0 upvotes
HBowman
By HBowman (5 months ago)

Once again, NIKON fail us.

9 upvotes
Ben Ramsey
By Ben Ramsey (5 months ago)

It's actually Sigma who has failed...

3 upvotes
HBowman
By HBowman (5 months ago)

Sigma is a honourable and generous company. Nikon ... I don't know anymore.

6 upvotes
Rjansenbr2
By Rjansenbr2 (5 months ago)

I have the same issues with the D610.

3 upvotes
ryansholl
By ryansholl (5 months ago)

If you're serious, were there issues with the d600? If not, and with the extremely minor changes between the two, it would look like Nikon was effectively sabotaging Sigma.

1 upvote
Rjansenbr2
By Rjansenbr2 (5 months ago)

I read in the internet that there has been similar problems with several cameras... I hope I can solve it with a firmware upgrade, but maybe I´ve just got a defective camera or lens.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
ceaiu
By ceaiu (5 months ago)

I was thinking that Nikon (and Canon, Pentax, Sony...) should thank Sigma (and Tamron, Tokina) for making APS-C lenses, and selling bodies for them.
Other systems (m43, Fuji X) promote themselves showing all available lenses (3rd party included).
The Sigma 18-35/1.8 alone is a huge selling point for D7100 /70D and alike.
If Nikon don’t want their users to buy 3rd party lenses why they aren't making 16/2.8, 24/1.8, 16-50/2.8, 50-135/2.8, 16-85/4? Would 18-35/1.8 and 35-70/1.8 VR prove to be too much of a challenge for Nikon’s engineers? Thank you Nikon for still selling the 35/1.8 though!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
MJSfoto1956
By MJSfoto1956 (5 months ago)

while I understand why Nikon wants to protect their turf, this kind of thing actually makes me upset at Nikon, not Sigma. In my opinion, Nikon needs to embrace a more modern concept of photography: specifically, they need to open up their APIs and ENCOURAGE 3rd parties to build for their platform. The best example I can think of is how MSDOS (a totally open system) trounced the early Apple Mac OS -- the lesson being that closed systems are difficult to reach critical mass and if/when they do, then the market starts to offer alternatives (example: the wild and early success of IOS (a closed system) led to the ascendancy of Android (an open system) as developers, tired of all the limits that Apple imposed on them, jumped ship).

8 upvotes
G1Houston
By G1Houston (5 months ago)

"The best example I can think of is how MSDOS (a totally open system)"

I disagree. MS licensed the MSDOS away b/c they are a soft ware company and did not have the intention to ever sell computers. Thus, there was no conflict of interest. If they were selling computers too, they would have to worry how they could ever compete with others who could always manage to sell something cheaper. Nikon does not just "design" lenses and cameras, they sell them too. I am not defending Nikon, and am curious why only Sigma's lenses are incompatible with D5300. If Nikon intentionally makes D5300 incompatible with third party lenses, why is Sigma singled out? Or is there any technical changes in how the lenses need to operate with D5300 that render Sigma lenses incompatible? Does anybody know? Does this have anything to do with the lawsuit brought up by Nikon that Sigma infringed on their OS/VR design?

0 upvotes
ceaiu
By ceaiu (5 months ago)

Or it's actually easier for Sigma to realease firmwares because they have the USB Dock?

0 upvotes
jgardia
By jgardia (5 months ago)

Not so open. in fact, very ugly:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how_ms_played_the_incompatibility/

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 36 seconds after posting
1 upvote
trac63
By trac63 (5 months ago)

Nikon can't have it both ways.

A big selling point with their camera bodies is the wide array of available 3rd party lenses and flashes, and yet Nikon continues to break the interface for 3rd party manufacturers.

6 upvotes
FoToEdge
By FoToEdge (5 months ago)

I have lost confidence in Nikon about a year ago, when I was told over and over by Nikon Support that there was no problem with Sensor Dust on my D600. They said all cameras get dust on the sensor and to just ship it back to them for free cleaning, which could take 2 weeks to get back. Instead, B&H gave me my money back and I moved on to FUJI X and Olympus 4/3rds ~ No More Problems! Moral: Buy from a good Camera Retailer and have them between you and Nikon!

10 upvotes
dccdp
By dccdp (5 months ago)

This means I won't buy the D5300, then.

10 upvotes
Samuel Dilworth
By Samuel Dilworth (5 months ago)

Nikon should compete with Sigma by improving the choice, quality, and prices of its lenses, not by breaking compatibility with third-party lenses at every opportunity.

That should be perfectly doable, since a Nikon user will gravitate to Nikon lenses unless the third-party ones are much more attractive.

So I read this below-the-belt move by Nikon as admission that it isn’t too confident in beating back Sigma with good marketing and engineering. Disappointing.

18 upvotes
hydrospanner
By hydrospanner (5 months ago)

First paragraph sums it up. Couldn't agree more with you on that.

Second paragraph, idk. I think many casual photographers (those the D5300 is aimed at) are driven by price first and performance second. They're willing to trade a bit of IQ for a bit of $. Sigma is claiming a market that Nikon barely satisfies (where's those wide angle DX primes?). I'd imagine Nikon doesn't like it, but there's no easy way to get Sigma out of the picture.

...or is there?

Certainly seems like a little of that thinking is going on here, with a firmware from Nikon that reduces functionality for third-party lenses with no discernible benefit or necessity driving the change.

I think this is an extremely unwise move on the part of Nikon if that was the only goal. Sure, they might succeed in getting further new buyers hooked into the OEM only lens buying model...but I think the vast majority will come into it, compare the products, and see that Canon offers third party support and Nikon doesn't.

2 upvotes
dccdp
By dccdp (5 months ago)

Yes, they should, because this will make Nikon a market leader... Microsoft did the same with competing companies, and look how bad their business was hurt because of it...

Let's be realistic. They will all try to use anti-competitive strategies, they all love to become monopolies, and this is why regulations should be applied to ensure the market is really fair. As you can see, the market is now owned by a couple of players, and they can do as they wish. The myth of self-regulating free market was dismantled long time ago...

0 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (5 months ago)

Well, it is a choice. Sony choosed to open e-mount spec, and that in turn allowed for a plethoria of adapters.
So clearly Nikon and and Sony both have shown examples in the opposite ends of the scale.
And yes, I'm sure that we can find examples from both of the opposite behaviour.

I don't know, does Nikon allow for downgrades of firmware?

0 upvotes
beavertown
By beavertown (5 months ago)

No, they don't.

0 upvotes
beavertown
By beavertown (5 months ago)

Nikon is really dirty.

They use new firmware update to trap people to update to a version that blocks after market batteries, lenses and so on.

The P7800, FT1 mount, the D5200 victims...

Don't invest in Nikon, it is a dirt cheap company.

9 upvotes
Allen Yang
By Allen Yang (5 months ago)

Well said. I have a third-party EN-EL14 battery that works with D3100. But I don't know if it will work with D5300

4 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (5 months ago)

What do you mean by "D5200 victims?"

0 upvotes
JDThomas
By JDThomas (5 months ago)

@Allen Yang. Third party EN-EL14 batteries are NOT compatible with the D5300. The D5300 ships with an EN-EL14a. The regular Nikon EN-EL14 WILL work with the D5300.

There's some sort of firmware that reads a chip in the battery from what I'm told.

0 upvotes
Allen Yang
By Allen Yang (5 months ago)

JD Thomas. Thank you for the information

0 upvotes
Peter A. Stavrakoglou
By Peter A. Stavrakoglou (5 months ago)

JDThomas & Allen Yang:

Canon also uses "chipped batteries. For my Canon 7D, I can use batteries that do not have the chip. They work fine except that the battery status indicator on the 7D will not register since it cannot "read" the battery chip. There are a lot of third party batteries that do have the chips in them that the camera can read and I have a few and they work fine. Is this the same case with the batteries for the Nikon?

0 upvotes
Allen Yang
By Allen Yang (5 months ago)

Peter. It's not the same. Nikon is not that "generous". Third-party batteries that don't have the "chip" won't be recognized by Nikon cameras and therefore can't be used.

1 upvote
naththo
By naththo (5 months ago)

Oh dear! Epic failure for Nikon brand! Im glad Sigma never had problem with Nex 7 yet.

4 upvotes
echelon2004
By echelon2004 (5 months ago)

Not really a Nikon problem though. They have no reason or obligation to provide any data to sigma that helps them to reverse engineer for the f mount.

11 upvotes
Samuel Dilworth
By Samuel Dilworth (5 months ago)

Echelon2004: it’s not Nikon’s problem – it falls not on Nikon but its customers – but it’s a problem created by Nikon.

I have nothing against proprietary technologies when they benefit the customer (which they sometimes profoundly do), but in the case of lens mounts there is no customer benefit to keeping the specification locked up. Instead, there’s a long list of serious drawbacks. It’s debatable whether it even helps Nikon.

Besides, there’s a difference between Nikon giving Sigma the specification and Nikon actively trying (i.e. spending R&D money!) to break Sigma’s reverse-engineered implementation. I’m not asking for the former. You shouldn’t be casually supporting the latter.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
14 upvotes
D1N0
By D1N0 (5 months ago)

e-mount spec is open, so there won't be problems. Sigma refuses to sign licensing deal with manufacturers, so they engineer backwards. problem with that is that it works when it works, but not any more when something changes within specs that is no problem for Nikon's own lenses but is for Sigma's. Since all lenses need an internal af-motor on the d5300, all sigma lenses will have problems. Screw drive AF won't work anyway since the Nikon lacks it.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (5 months ago)

I've to agree with Samuel Dilworth.

0 upvotes
Plastek
By Plastek (5 months ago)

D1N0 - it's not like they refuse. They don't have much choice really. Neither Nikon nor Canon are selling licenses for their mounts.

1 upvote
D1N0
By D1N0 (5 months ago)

I believe Tamron has them

0 upvotes
Total comments: 88