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Shooting with the Sony Alpha 7 and Alpha 7R

By dpreview staff on Nov 15, 2013 at 02:37 GMT

We've been shooting with Sony's Alpha 7 and Alpha 7R over the past few weeks to get insight into how the compact full-frame cameras behave. While the two models are twins, they're by no means identical, with each sibling very quickly showing its own, distinct personality. We'll be publishing more in the coming weeks as we move towards completing our review, but we wanted to share our perspective now that we've had some experience to inform our opinion.

368
I own it
414
I want it
76
I had it
Discuss in the forums
367
I own it
569
I want it
107
I had it
Discuss in the forums

Comments

Total comments: 2381
34567
AlexK-12
By AlexK-12 (5 months ago)

I can see two great reasons why Sony gave the a7/r the e-mount:
1). The ability to mount all legacy film lenses that already cover the 35mm format
2). The ability to use Canon/Nikon full frame lenses and possibly even with autofocus

It seems to me that Sony made the right decision to go with e-mount, even if it means that they have to start from scratch with FE lenses. If I had the need and money, I would sell my a77 and jump on the a7r. One day, perhaps :)

5 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (5 months ago)

You will still need an adapter to use lenses from either Canon or Nikon. And looking at Sony's (Bulky, did I say bulky?) A-Lens adapter it looks like there is a big unbalance between body and lenses.

Next big factor for Sony is that they only introduced some pretty 'slow' lenses with this camera which makes the need to go into higher ISO regions much faster with the additional negative of loosing shallow depth of field.

Though I think what Sony did here will eventually be the future of DSLR's.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Rob Sims
By Rob Sims (5 months ago)

@Just a Photographer
FYI -The LA-EA4 adaptor pictured actually includes a translucent mirror and a full PDAF box underneath as well as motors to effectively provide a completely separate AF system.
Using Canon/Nikon lenses most just us the cheap 'dumb' adaptors already available. They're pretty cheap (think $30 for unbranded, and $100 for the good ones) and light (30-50g?). People have been using them on the e-mount NEX cameras for about 3 years and most/all should work with the FF sensor fine. The imbalance is obviously lens dependent. Primes - no, 70-200/f2.8s - probably!

2 upvotes
Dave Oddie
By Dave Oddie (5 months ago)

If Sony went e-mount so they could mount legacy lenses and to mount modern Canikon lenses it was a monumentally stupid basis for a decision. It compromises their existing A-mount use base who also have to use an adapter and loses iBIS which is a killer.

Yes some people are interested in making life difficult and using old lenses in a totally manual way but how many? Once many have tried the the novelty will soon ware off in my opinion. Did with me with a Helios 58mm F2 on my old A100. Just could not see the point.

Even if they can make Canikon lenses AF (is this really the case?) they will still be manual aperture and making it easy to use other makes lenses means you sell less of your own.

The size thing is a red herring. Cameras like the A37 and A55 were very small SLT cameras. The only dimension that needs to be bigger on A-mount (APC-C or FF) is the depth of the camera.

1 upvote
km25
By km25 (5 months ago)

If you look at the Fuji X-Pro 1 in low light on Raw, it wins hands down. The A7R looks like sharp noise. The camera will have it's place as created of sharp images, in a light package. The cost is focus speed and that wide angle and fast lens will be very big in ratio to this camera. That Leica lens shorter then 35mm will not work with this camera. A good start for Sony. No dout the users of this camera will be waiting for the A8R. And lens. A wise person would wait for at least for tests and few months.

1 upvote
SDF
By SDF (5 months ago)

tell that to these people in Korea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLaTEyuG414

5 upvotes
Just another Canon shooter
By Just another Canon shooter (5 months ago)

Tell me you are kidding.

4 upvotes
stormwatch888
By stormwatch888 (5 months ago)

Fuji X-Pro wins hands down? Sure...but since ISO 1600 you cannot see any remain details in it's pictures...

Comment edited 14 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (5 months ago)

I have seen sample of low light out of Fuji X-Pro, I am not impressed at all. The shadow were clipped horribly! Thats in JPEG though. It looks better in RAW of course but still not as good as Sony sensor that is great for low light shooting. Sony sensor has a lot more sensitivity to low light.

1 upvote
luigibozi
By luigibozi (5 months ago)

"we wanted to share our perspective". thank you, dpreview. may be your perspective will double as these cameras are "by no means identical" with separate pages, reviews and everything. eh?

2 upvotes
Allen Yang
By Allen Yang (5 months ago)

These two cameras would be attractive after Sony SIGNIFICANTLY expands its lens group.

5 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

True... this is just the beginning. The lens count from Sony is expected to grow to eight by mid 2014 (Sony Zeiss ultra wide zoom, Sony G macro and Sony Zeiss prime... possibly 85mm in mid 2014)... 10 lens line up expected over next year (15 in two years). Plus, third party lenses (Zeiss has announced lenses towards end of 2014).

1 upvote
photo nuts
By photo nuts (5 months ago)

Hopefully, Sony does not change their mind and shut down the money-haemorrhaging Imaging group before that. :D

2 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

@photo nuts,
Advancing digital imaging is of great interest to Sony, hence a major investment and incentive lately. Next 12 months are going to be interesting to those who want advancements and more options... depressing to those who are bound to be upset. :D

0 upvotes
Marvol
By Marvol (5 months ago)

@Allen: Or you could use the money you save over the competition by buying some nifty adapters.

There's cheap ones to use with all sorts of MF lenses, or fancy stuff as by Metabones et al which actually support AF for Canon EF.

In some ways Sony is now making better Canon cameras than Canon itself. I'm sure there will be similar adapters for other brands. Why would Sony need to make all these other lenses themselves?

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Mizudori
By Mizudori (5 months ago)

For being half the size compared to D800, those A7R raw files sure are pretty impressive...
A7R shows how much Nikon need to work on their on-board JPG processing as well...

5 upvotes
thx1138
By thx1138 (5 months ago)

What's camera size got to do with IQ? It's the sensor size that's important.

Agreed, A&R sooc jpgs are excellent. The only other company that does really good sooc jpgs is Olympus.

2 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (5 months ago)

And Fuji.

7 upvotes
Mizudori
By Mizudori (5 months ago)

What I meant was the file size. Impressive quality for half the file size, in MB, vs the equivalent resolution D800.

1 upvote
thx1138
By thx1138 (5 months ago)

Ah ok!

0 upvotes
Caerolle
By Caerolle (5 months ago)

So Sony can make a 55mm lens for its full frame system, which is an odd length, but won't make one for its crop system, for a ~85mm equivalent.

God I so don't miss Sony.

3 upvotes
rishi o'
By rishi o' (5 months ago)

Not sure what you are talking about. You can use the 55mm on the crop sensor and it turns into an 85.

17 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

55mm is 85mm equivalent on crop frame.

12 upvotes
achim_k
By achim_k (5 months ago)

55mm odd length? When I began with Pentax slr in 1969 the standard kit lens was 1,8/55 !

0 upvotes
obeythebeagle
By obeythebeagle (5 months ago)

It is approaching saturation bombing overkill. They all look ridiculously fantastic. Just think back to the stone age, maybe two years ago. Seriously, how many billboards will you be shooting this year?

Didn't go digital for many years. Give up a Leica and Kodachrome? Presently all the companies have awesome cameras, but Sony and Sigma might be "Pushing the envelope" the most.

To use more "Right Stuff" cliches, beloved Hasselbald has "Screwed the pooch". Will a Hasselblad A7R rebadge cost as much as an endangered-species-skinned, one-of-a-kind Leica? Bonfire of the Vanities.

4 upvotes
justmeMN
By justmeMN (5 months ago)

If you use the big, bulky, depicted adaptor, that defeats the purpose of buying a compact camera.

3 upvotes
ryansholl
By ryansholl (5 months ago)

So, if you use an adapter to use SLR-sized lenses for a package that's the size of an SLR when you need to, and put a smaller lens on when you don't, it makes no sense to have the smaller lens/camera when you don't necessarily need the SLR lenses?

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for talking some into me.

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
viking79
By viking79 (5 months ago)

@justme, I am getting A7 to replace two systems, my A99 and my other mirrorless, so being able to turn it into a larger camera for those cases when I need to is desirable, and being able to remove that and have a small camera the rest of the time is important. Exactly what Ryan said.

Comment edited 39 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

While adapter adds size and weight, it also adds functionality which can be removed when not needed. Even then, the combination is still smaller due to slimmer body.

3 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (5 months ago)

Question to Dpreview:
Why do the RAW crops posted in the comparison tool look noisier than the actual corresponding RAW converted jpegs that we can download?

For example, in the tool the ISO 6400 daylight RAW file from the A7R looks noisier than the D800 equivalent. When I download the full converted jpegs, they look pretty much identical and the A7R thus looks less noisy than shown above. The same holds true at all ISO's. Did you add more sharpening to the A7R files in the comparison tool? Or luminance NR to the converted files for download?

2 upvotes
BobYIL
By BobYIL (5 months ago)

Loot at the colors RAW @ISO 6400.. The best two are the A7R and 5DMarkIII. The new 36MP sensor seems clearly as an improvement over the one on the D800/E series.

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (5 months ago)

What raw extraction software are you using for the A7R raws?

Also lenses are kind of important for colour judgements.

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (5 months ago)

The colour moire and noise is significantly worse than the competition... at times it is unacceptable. I hope A7, with its AA filter on and lower resolution, performs much better than this.. AA filters are necessary; enough with this fashionable AA-less nonsense...

8 upvotes
Just another Canon shooter
By Just another Canon shooter (5 months ago)

The make what the public likes. The public likes artifacts.

1 upvote
stevo23
By stevo23 (5 months ago)

Where in the test photo does the A7R show moire? I'm seeing a bit in the verticle stripes above the bottle, but so does the 5D. And there is a small but nasty bit in the wood carving print. I can't find more yet.

1 upvote
tedbare
By tedbare (5 months ago)

Looks pretty damn good to me.

4 upvotes
RichRMA
By RichRMA (5 months ago)

That phase adapter reminds me of an early AF lens I saw on a...Minolta SLR I believe.

1 upvote
ChrishsChan
By ChrishsChan (5 months ago)

I have the chance to play with the A7 and A7r last Sunday at the Sony promotion in Vancouver. I used a SD card of Class 10 for both of the cameras. I found the A7 performance is acceptable for it's features and value. For the A7r, my first impression with this camera is totally unacceptable. The Sony guy told me the camera is a pre-production one, no idea whether it is real, I don't think Sony will let people play with such a camera if they want people to buy it. My conclusion is dead slow. I did three continuous photos, then, the camera image processing became very slow to respond. It took at least one minute before it could give us a result (photo) display on the LCD screen. Hope this is for a pre-production one. How can it match with other full frame cameras.

2 upvotes
Joe Ogiba
By Joe Ogiba (5 months ago)

Gordon Laing tested the A7r and said it was as fast as the D800e in continuous shooting mode.
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Alpha_A7r/

5 upvotes
hippo84
By hippo84 (5 months ago)

If somebody has money to buy FF camera, why not to buy fast SD card? Don't forget about size of 36mp pictures

2 upvotes
ChrishsChan
By ChrishsChan (5 months ago)

I have a D800, not a problem with the speed using SD card class 10. I did mention, may be it was a pre-production model. You should go to a camera store, see whether you have a chance to test one by yourselves, no just talk.

0 upvotes
hippo84
By hippo84 (5 months ago)

ChrishsChan - class10 just means that card can write 10mb/sec. I have SDXC can that can write 45mb/sec, and it is class 10, and one more: it is 3 times slower and it is class 10 too. I don't say that You did something wrong. But now class 10 doesn't mean anything. By the way, 13 members of SonyClubRussia had an opportunity to test A7/A7r for couple of days, and none of them had problems with write speed. (Sorry for my terrible English)

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
zzzorki7
By zzzorki7 (5 months ago)

"...Gordon Laing tested the A7r and said it was as fast as the D800e in continuous shooting mode..."

He joked!

0 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (5 months ago)

I don't believe that. A7 will be much faster in burst mode than A7r. And A7 is better cos of AA filter to it to remove horrible moire effect to it. And the quality of high iso noise will be much better in A7 than A7r. A7r probably is okay for very large print. But for me A7 for both still and video are still a clear winner to me.

1 upvote
ChrishsChan
By ChrishsChan (5 months ago)

If the Nikon D800 can work with class 10, how come Sony can't. I found Sony has the problem of slow performance with their other cameras. Like the A99, when switching on the camera, you can count 1 to 10 before you can see the camera is full functional. Try it at any Sony Store.

0 upvotes
ChrishsChan
By ChrishsChan (5 months ago)

I did see Gordon Liang test, I used his test for information only. I remember when he test the Nikon D7000, he said it is no good for speed, so I did not buy the D7000 at that time after I saw his test. I save my money and buy two other cameras, the D600 and the Fuji X Pro1. Actually, D7000 is a very good camera too, but thanks to him.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (5 months ago)

whether these are good cameras or not,
I hope Sony could become a great maker of third-party bodies,
and make Canon and Nikon third-party lens manufacturers,
for an all-third-party market ... as long as SLRs don't die.

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
OvinceZ
By OvinceZ (5 months ago)

Sony is all over the place. Those of us who invested in the NEX7 plus adapters and lenses are not that happy. If we upgrade to FF we have to buy new adapters and lenses. Curses. This is an expensive hobby. Those adapters were not cheap. Metabones almost $500.

The Sony lenses for the NEX7 were unsatisfactory to me. So I had to buy special Zeiss and Sigma lenses. Looks like a dead end street now!

8 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

Sounds to me that if you are dissatisfied with a Camera Maker (Sony) because of lack of support and lack of an upgrade path, and lack of native lenses that perform well, and are forced to use other manufacturers lenses with adapters...The new Sony A7/r would not be the camera of choice

4 upvotes
Joe Ogiba
By Joe Ogiba (5 months ago)

I purchased the full frame NEX-VG900 over a year ago and I use low cost adapters with fast primes like the 24mm F1.4, 35mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 Samyang along with 50mm F1.4 Pentax. I pre-ordered the new Vario-Tessar T* FE 24-70mm F4 ZA OSS zoom lens that should work great with it. I prefer the adjustable angled OLED EVF and video features of the VG900 over the A7/A7r. The Sony HVL-F60M External Flash also works great for still shots with the VG900 and it also has LEDs for video use.

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
ABM Barry
By ABM Barry (5 months ago)

I have used Sony, however, for my professional projects it's Nikon mostly with fast primes for the last 40 years.
Sony are on their 4th lens mount, can't build a good lens and have demonstrated that they are not interested in the Pro market.
Nobody buys adapters to mount Sony lenses on Nikon, Canon, .. everyone makes adapters to mount good glass on Sony. That tell us something,.... but it seems it doesn't send a clear message to Sony? I don't believe that Sony ever was or ever will be in the race. I bought the Olympus OMD E5 last year, very good lenses. As I also have a strong Nikon system, I simply bought a Novex adapter now I have the best of both worlds with every manufacturer making very good lenses that are shared between both bodies. I hope this is of some help to you OvinceZ.
Barry M. Australia.

9 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (5 months ago)

"Nobody buys adapters to mount Sony lenses on Nikon, Canon, .. everyone makes adapters to mount good glass on Sony. "

Yes, that tells you that neither Nikon nor Canon has interesting mirrorless (....) bodies to mount Sony lenses on. Sony A mount lenses or E mount lenses physically won't go on other bodies to begin with.

11 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

@TrojMacready
Or...there is no need to, as they have a full system, with pretty much any lens offering that you may want, something Sony can't offer.

4 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (5 months ago)

Show me an STF from any brand that isn't called Sony or Minolta. Or a compact 500mm mirrorlens with AF.

No system is fully "complete" as they all have unique features or lenses left and right. And not having to exchange lenses you own for the equivalents from a different brand when mounting on a different brand body, counts for many of these people too. I know there are quite a few Sony shooters out there willing to mount their ZA and STF glass on a different brand body, if there was one that would allow decent (FF) performance.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
victorragusila
By victorragusila (5 months ago)

true, NEX-7 is useless now. It is physically impossible to use it given that a new camera is out there (something that nobody could have imagined happening). Can i have yours? I need a new paper-weight...

3 upvotes
Hugo808
By Hugo808 (5 months ago)

You pays your money and you takes a chance, small manufacturers don't have the system back up of the big bous. Proceed with caution, it's the story of the ages..

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (5 months ago)

Sony are not on their fourth lens mount

They have only two lens mounts (A & E) and use both on APS-C and full frame cameras.

2 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

@TrojMacready.

What Nikon user or Canon user has ever lamented not having a 500 mirror that can AF.

What year is this 1972? Mirrorlens LOL

Nobody wants mirror lenses, much less Minolta or rebadged Minolta lenses that Sony gets a premium over despite underperforming against Nikon and Canon equivalents.

0 upvotes
Luego
By Luego (5 months ago)

The loud shutter sound is a real turn-off for me. Hopefully Sony will address this in their future version.
Listen to this hollow sound of the shutter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmS2fUngz2o:

2 upvotes
RadPhoto
By RadPhoto (5 months ago)

They will never do that. People complained about it for all NEX system and never happened. You would think it's easier without the mirror!!

0 upvotes
ryansholl
By ryansholl (5 months ago)

I dig a loud shutter. There. I said it. Couldn't give a sh!t less about flying under the radar. Haven't had a bride/groom so much as mention it, either.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (5 months ago)

Sounds like an old film camera.

1 upvote
Olga Celle
By Olga Celle (5 months ago)

I own a Nex 7 and despite the fact that it is a great little thing, I have to say that Sony never worked fast enough in providing the NEX 7 with decent, semi-pro lens. I am not picky, the NEX 7 was intended as a semi-pro camera. Firmware was never actualized to properly meet customers' wishes expressed in hundreds of blogs. As a result, Nex 7 owners were looking forward the next NEX 7 model; instead, Sony produces the A7/A7R promising a new line of full frame lenses in the near future...Considering that the NEX 7 and its lens were not cheap, this means that those NEX 7 owners who were expecting just a change in camera body are (again) let down. I'm keeping my NEX 7. I am buying a Nikon full frame.

8 upvotes
RadPhoto
By RadPhoto (5 months ago)

Same feeling. I have an NEX5N sitting doing nothing after I switched to Nikon. I always wanted
them to do what Fuji does with keep updating the firmware with new features if the hardware permits. For example. Shooting 3 frames for autoexposure with only .7 ev!!! That reminds me, I should post it on eBay

1 upvote
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

@Olga, you do realize that the full frame lenses for A7 are the quality you wanted. Are you upset because they aren't crop sensor lenses? Here are high quality choices in the immediate future:
Sony Zeiss 35/2.8 and 55/1.8
Sony Zeiss 24-70/4 and 70-200/4
Sony Zeiss ultra wide zoom, Sony Zeiss 85mm, Sony G macro (these three in Spring-Summer).

0 upvotes
cxsparc
By cxsparc (5 months ago)

@Olga & Rad: You complain about missing firmware upgrades now but you did not even notice that Sony has provided such firmware upgrades quite some time ago, especially for the bracketing thing? Actually , providing meaningful firmware upgrade has been a positive Sony thing even with the first Nex 3 & 5. I use a 5N and have upgraded twice since buying it. Sony has pro lenses for the Nex (Zeiss 24/1.8), but where it lacks is cheap wide angle. Love the 50/1.8, but the 35/1.8 is just not wide enough for me, the Zeiss too expensive.

0 upvotes
Ekaloa
By Ekaloa (5 months ago)

Here's a very accurate size comparison I found that might be helpful.

http://flic.kr/ps/2DYQr9

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Pakio
By Pakio (5 months ago)

And also it lacks ISO 50. At least it has a max shutter speed of 1/8000

0 upvotes
alpha604
By alpha604 (5 months ago)

extended ISO doesn't actually change the base ISO of the camera. Seems great to have, if you enjoy underexposure and blowing out highlight detail. Cool it can go lower, but not a real option if absolute image quality is the goal.

1 upvote
Pakio
By Pakio (5 months ago)

I would love this camera, but why so slow X-Sync with a mirrorless camera? My APSC Sigma DP can sync at 1/2000

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (5 months ago)

x-sync is a shutter issue that 135 format shutters are larger, heavier, thus slower than APS-C or 4/3" ones without extra effort.

so should be cost saving.

1 upvote
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

Leaf shutter can allow for that (see Sony RX10 or RX1 for that).

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (5 months ago)

putting a shutter in each of lenses may solve the problem at a lot higher cost (what's the purpose of Zeiss lenses if it's not for low cost?)

0 upvotes
FSTomi
By FSTomi (5 months ago)

I wasn't able to trawl all 1570 comments (I couldnt bring myself to do it :)) but does anyone know the Max recording time for video please for the A7 & A7r

Reason i ask is because a friend of mine, recently purchased a NEX-6 and he stated the record time has been removed, but i wasn't sure about this since i'm quite sure there's a time limit due to over heating and tax reasons.

Thanks

0 upvotes
red fuji
By red fuji (5 months ago)

29 minutes

0 upvotes
Sean Davey Photography
By Sean Davey Photography (5 months ago)

OK, I'm a long time Canon user. I want to know if I buy one of the converters out there will I be able to use my Canon EF lens full frame on the new A7R or will there be fall off on the edges?... I'd really like to know a clear and concise answer from someone who actually knows from experience... Thank you.

0 upvotes
GonzaloDVial
By GonzaloDVial (5 months ago)

If the lens is shorter than 35mm you could have problems with the corners.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-a7r-super-legacy-lens-test-a-must-see/

1 upvote
ABM Barry
By ABM Barry (5 months ago)

Hi Sean, You own one of the top two professional camera makers system. Huge selection of lenses, long history of support of your investment. Why would want to throw your good money at Sony that have just discontinued yet another attempt (NEX) they are on their 4th lens mount and clearly can't make lenses!
The A7 A7R seems to be plagued with the usual operational and sluggish firmware.
I'm just glad Sony don't build passenger aeroplanes and life-support systems!

1 upvote
erotavlas
By erotavlas (5 months ago)

@ ABM Barry
They aren't discontinuing NEX, just rebranding it. E-Mount APS-C is still alive. Why would they discontinue it and also introduce Zeiss Touit lenses for E-Mount recently. Please do some research before posting.

5 upvotes
tietheknot
By tietheknot (5 months ago)

@ABM Barry

Just in case you're confused, FE is not a new mount. It is still the same mount as on NEX cameras, it's just that the old NEX lenses designed for APS-C is slightly impaired on a FF sensor

1 upvote
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

@ABM Berry:
Sony has two mounts: A (inherited from Minolta and used in DSLT line) and E (introduced in 2010 and used in A7/7r.

"FE" is a designation to identify FF lens for E-mount. So, 55mm f/1.8 FE simply means the lens is full format, and 50mm f/1.8 E means the lens is for crop format. Canon uses EF and EF-S respectively for the same purpose (now also EF-M... make that three mounts there).

1 upvote
Isoruku
By Isoruku (5 months ago)

Dear Jeff Keller: the word you want at the end of "body and design" section is "simple" - not "simplistic."

0 upvotes
mosc
By mosc (5 months ago)

The A7 seems like a real winner and even a good value. APS-C cameras sometimes get into that pricerange let alone full featured FF options. I love the high-end Sony EVF. Beats everything but a proper rangefinder OVF to me.

All that said, what the hell am I going to mount to it? Get myself an SLT adapter that ruins the value proposition and mount up a bunch of old FF Minolta lenses? Really?

Sony, you win at making cameras, we concede. But ICL cameras are about the LENSES! Try making some, won't ya?

4 upvotes
Banhmi
By Banhmi (5 months ago)

The product segmentation of the camera world is finally collapsing! In a couple years FF pocket-size cameras will likely be a commodity! The possibility of professional media production is increasingly in everyone's hands!

3 upvotes
mondotv
By mondotv (5 months ago)

Shame thevideo side is not a world camera - looks like they will market restrict it to 60/24 in NTSC countries and 50/25 in PAL land - unfortunately I need both and it appears Sony is being very careful not to cannibalise its video camera market.

1 upvote
tlinn
By tlinn (5 months ago)

I wish there weren't trade offs (other than price) when choosing between the two bodies. Why no electronic shutter on the A7R? Why a composite body on the A7R vs magnesium for the A7? The A7 seems to have a better AF system too.

1 upvote
ET2
By ET2 (5 months ago)

technical reasons with the sensor that they weren't able to solve. Possibly read speed isn't fast enough for electronic first shutter curtain.

3 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

A7 also has magnesium alloy body, except for the front plate (which too is magnesium alloy on A7r).

1 upvote
km25
By km25 (5 months ago)

Again, about lens CZ top line of lens are not Sonnar, they are Planar. If they were to make 50mm F1.4 Planar for the A7 cameras. It would look like you where using anyother maker of lens on the camera. This is not a camera to pre order. Wait and see.

2 upvotes
alpha604
By alpha604 (5 months ago)

If they made a 50/1.4 planar it would look like... well the A mount Zeiss 50/1.4 planar... which works beautifully on the A7/A7R with the LAEA4. Grip makes that configuration feel beefy and great in the hand, a bit wonky without the grip when adapting heavy Alpha glass.

0 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

@ alpha604
So purchase a $350 adaptor and add a $1500 lens that makes it almost the size and bulk of a FF Canon or Nikon?

Hmmm...No thanks

0 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (5 months ago)

@bamboo,
No, just get 55/1.8. It appears to be a fine lens. The adapter would be a great addition for expanding functionality (sports/action photography), as a complementing camera to someone who has A-mount lenses or simply to shop A-mount lenses that are either no available or are cheaper, going back to 1985.

0 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

@EinsteinsGhost
You missed the point completely...
the original comment was about 1.4...the 55 is 1.8 so no that is not the answer.
Secondly that lens is also $1000, so the original post is accurate on all levels.
It will be big and unbalanced with the 50 1.4 and adaptor, the pricing given is accurate and the camera size is quickly lost when you have to mount other lenses (and you will have to use adapters and other lenses as this camera has NO lens support).

0 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (5 months ago)

Why not Sony put IBIS in camera like Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax and Sony Alpha series?

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (5 months ago)

No E-mount camera ever had IBIS. It's probably not even possible with FF sensor in A7 size body.

0 upvotes
Bill T.
By Bill T. (5 months ago)

Can anybody characterize the amount of vibration introduced by the A7R "noisy shutter?"

I shoot stitched panormas with very long lenses, where mirror vibration from my present camera bodies is a major nuisance requiring clumsy work-arounds. I wonder if I will have issues with A7R shutter vibrations with say 200mm+ lenses when tripod mounted?

0 upvotes
Febs
By Febs (5 months ago)

It should be no problem due to the electronic first curtain. The movement, vibration, sound is only at the end of the exposure when the shutter closes.

0 upvotes
tlinn
By tlinn (5 months ago)

According to the table of differences, only the A7 has electronic first curtain.

1 upvote
luigibozi
By luigibozi (5 months ago)

Could you double check "Max resolution" and "Other resolutions" for A7R, please?
More than that, I think A7 and A7R are two different cameras (as nikon d600 and d800) and they deserve their own entries and pages on dpreview site.
What do you think?

2 upvotes
UncleJJ
By UncleJJ (5 months ago)

THANK YOU SONY! Awesome concept. It was about time somebody came out with this camera. It was what we've all been asking for... watch Nikon and Canon follow (just like they've done with their mirrorless lines). I'm really impressed with Sony's forward thinking following their NEX line (which I guess is now dead) This will be the leading product that will pave the way for a new type of camera. Let's face it: DSLRs are dead. I know all of you old-school photographers are in denial, just like you were about film till digital caught up. This is the face of the future. Well done Sony!

8 upvotes
wcan
By wcan (5 months ago)

I also think this is great. Being able to put canon or nikon lenses (with appropriate metabones adapter) may be nothing short of amazing for those of us already invested in those lines.

2 upvotes
luigibozi
By luigibozi (5 months ago)

More than that, these two cameras (A7R in particular) are the ideal medium for testing and comparing interchangeable full-frame lenses (from moderate wide-angle up at least) for different mounts.
Finally, the (potential) buyer could have comprehensive data good for a realistic comparison and a good choice.
And every fanboy, even canikonistas will benefit.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
ms18
By ms18 (5 months ago)

Can a7 focus fast as DSLR? Just curious.

0 upvotes
ABM Barry
By ABM Barry (5 months ago)

Unclejj you said: "Sony the face of the future" and "This will be the leading product that will pave the way for a new type of camera."

Whilst your are taking your yellow pills, Sony are experimenting with their 5th and 6th lens mount! They have already accepted that they can't make lenses! You would have to take the red pills to think they were good! You do realize that the NEX line is now defunct! ....... If Sony built a life support system or domestic airplanes would you trust the former or fly on the second?

1 upvote
erotavlas
By erotavlas (5 months ago)

@ABM Barry
That's right get it all out of your system ABM Barry. Let go of all that verbal diarrhea and you'll feel much better!

2 upvotes
Shengji
By Shengji (5 months ago)

My son spent the first 5 years of his life on a life support system with sony emblazoned across the top. ABM Barry, why don't you stick to talking about things you know about, which clearly is not medical equipment.

In fact, we all get that you hate sony now, why don't you stop questioning the decisions other people are making and trying to influence them, when, let's be honest, you are a no-one on the internet sporting some terrible gallery pics. Give us a reason to listen to you if you feel that you're up to it, or better yet, get out there and enjoy your cameras. Maybe even that Sony one you're feeling so upset about.

In the time that you've been trolling this thread, you could have taken a shot worthy of hanging on the wall.

2 upvotes
acidic
By acidic (5 months ago)

fugly fugly fugly

FUGLY!

That is all.

Comment edited 37 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
OfcrMike
By OfcrMike (5 months ago)

Thank you, Acidic, for taking the time to share with the world the most articulate and useful thought your meagre intellect was capable of generating. The sum of human knowledge has been profoundly enriched by your erudite contribution.
You will be remembered... unless you and your wit are quickly forgotten, of course, in which case, you should disregard everything I just said... ;)

8 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (6 months ago)

What a massive lens compatibility headache! So, if you are to maintain the compactness of the system and retain AF what choice of lenses are offered for less than $350?? I know, for example, one can get Canon EF 50mm F1.4, 28mm F2.8, 40mm F2.8 STM, or Pentax FA 50mm 1.4, XS 40mm F2.8 all within a price range $150-350.

My fear is that there is none! I, for one, would not be willing to spent $1000 for a plain old 50mm F1.8 even if it's made by Star Trek's tritanium.

(PS. Oh my, will we see those permanent black markers dancing over the non-phtographic ugly "SONY" camera-forehead logo until it is erased from sight, or what....)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
DarkShift
By DarkShift (5 months ago)

Max. aperture is not relevant if quality is not good enough for serious use. EF 50mm 1.4 is not very useable wide open.

FE 55mm/1.8 seems to offer excellent resolution even wide open and nice bokeh.

Anyway a FE-mount camera can use most other full frame mount lenses via adapter. Finally one could use Canon's TS-E lenses together with high resolution 36Mpix sensor.

2 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (5 months ago)

You probably read part of my comment. Fe 55mm 1.8 is fine in terms of max aperture but it is VERY BIG. Using other lenses via adapters LOOSES AF or small size.

3 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

@ RStyga
Exactly, What is the point of having a small camera when you have to purchase a $350 adapter to mount Sony FF lenses or use Metabones $400 adapter to use other brands and lose size which is the whole purpose of this system?

This camera makes no sense!

2 upvotes
Isedg
By Isedg (6 months ago)

No touch screen supported is pain

3 upvotes
Sordid
By Sordid (5 months ago)

It probably doesn't even come with some Pokemon game preinstalled.

3 upvotes
Siff
By Siff (6 months ago)

What is going to happen to the RX1r? :)

0 upvotes
lagalagnewyork
By lagalagnewyork (6 months ago)

i have sen the future and the future is a7r. was waiting for nex7 update but looks like sony is giving up the nex models. will wait for 6 months to buy a7r because i am sure they will improve it later just like what happened to rx1 and rx100. kudos to sony for this earthshaking models, heard round the world. have sony nex5k and rx100. wonderful cameras. if you will buy just 1 camera in your lifetime buy the rx100/rx100II.

0 upvotes
DarkShift
By DarkShift (5 months ago)

a7r has great sensor, but its biggest problem seems to be the shutter. No EFCS is bummer for a mirrorless FF camera IMHO. Even Canon 5D mkII had this feature in LV mode making it much faster than D800.

I wonder if a7r would suffer from the same limitation as D800: after zooming in certain amount its LV frame rate will drop massively making focusing not so easy.

Also X-sync speed of 1/160s is very slow today.

0 upvotes
Hollomen
By Hollomen (5 months ago)

I am a Sony fan, but this is one of sony´s biggest fallts ...they switch to often. And technology that once was even groundbreaking the next Day did no longer exists.

4 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

They just keep flinging models at the wall to see which will stick.

No upgrade path, no system support, adapters that make the camera size advantage virtually disappear.

2 upvotes
CopperMike
By CopperMike (6 months ago)

For all practical purposes, with the ubiquity of adapters Sony's e-mount is an open-source, use-any-lens-you-like system... the two new FE primes announced with the a7(r) are, by all early accounts, fantastic lenses, but we are in no way limited to them.
It scarcely makes any sense NOT to get an a7(r).

1 upvote
CopperMike
By CopperMike (6 months ago)

@tim fisher46:
M-mount lenses from Leica, Zeiss & Voigtlander, as well as Nikon F-mount and Canon lenses can all be easily used on any Sony e-mount camera, including these new full-framers, by using adapters from Metabones or Novoflex.
With manual-focus lenses, you'll have to set the camera to "release w/o lens" because its CPU will not be able to detect the presence of the non-electronic lens and so will not realise that a lens is mounted. It's a small thing, really; then just set the camera to full-manual control and you're up & running.

1 upvote
tim fisher46
By tim fisher46 (5 months ago)

Thanks.
Quite exciting as the Leica M glass is rather special (28, 30, 50, 90mm) and with a cycling trip down through Patagonia on the cards in early 2014 (lucky me!) I was hesitant about taking the M, what with it being a rangefinder as they can go out of alignment if bashed about.

Lastly, it sounds like I can connect my newest Nikon lenses, such as the 70-200 f2.8. The Leica M series glass is good, but no one really buys anything beyond the 90mm, although there is always the R series lenses to consider!

1 upvote
svashist
By svashist (6 months ago)

Would have been my dream camera, only if Sony put in a decent built in flash and save space avoiding the OVF on the A7, :( .

0 upvotes
tim fisher46
By tim fisher46 (6 months ago)

Leica M lenses on the A7R?
Is that possible?
Does anyone have a link or similar to which adapters might be possible?

Owning 4x new Leica lenses, this sounds like a really good option for a forthcoming project of mine where size of equipment is going to be important, & assuming the adapters are not as impractical and bulky as the above picture, this camera may be a Heaven sent.

Thanks

0 upvotes
Cobber55
By Cobber55 (6 months ago)

Check this out http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/10/30/day-two-sony-a7-and-a7r-with-zeiss-otus-and-more/

1 upvote
Richard Schumer
By Richard Schumer (5 months ago)

Also this for Voigtlander's Leica-M-to-Sony E close-focusing adapter (eventually)

http://cameraquest.com/voigt_adpt_sonye.htm

0 upvotes
the-dude-75
By the-dude-75 (5 months ago)

the whole world is talking about the possibility to use the m mount lenses, and you habe never heard about that?

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
SMPhoto
By SMPhoto (6 months ago)

At the risk of getting a "what's your preoccupation with size all about" comments thrown my way, I have to wonder what manufacturers, and customer's preoccupation with making DSLRs smaller is... Lighter, that would be one thing, but I HATE trying to hold and use a small camera. I much prefer larger DLSR, such as Nikon D4/Canon 1D sized cameras (or a D800/5D + grip) over a standard DSLR, even though I'm not crazy about the weight on a long shoot. They just fit your hands better and it's so much easier to find the right controls in a hurry.

2 upvotes
leonche64
By leonche64 (6 months ago)

I know what you mean. I had the opportunity to handle the camera yesterday in Hong Kong, and it feels bigger than it looks. The vertical grip will make it feel even better. It is much bigger than the Next 7. It also has a good weight to it that inspires confidence. Having said that, I was more comfortable with my 77 and the grip, but it is good to know they are out there.

0 upvotes
ericimbs
By ericimbs (5 months ago)

Less conspicuous when street shooting. Takes up less space when traveling light.

0 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (5 months ago)

How inconspicuous can a camera be when you have to mount the Sony adaptor to get any kind of lens system and the lenses you do mount are huge by comparison to the body?

1 upvote
OfcrMike
By OfcrMike (6 months ago)

@ferrellmc: "For those buying the A7, I'd like to hear your reasons why you have chosen it over the A7R. Also, it would be good to hear the other camera you own."

I've owned Sony's a33 & a65; both had serious back-focusing issues that ended up being deal-breakers for me. I currently own a Sony NEX-6, along with a Nikon FM-2. I absolutely love the NEX-6. I pre-ordered an a7 on 16 Oct... here's why: the hybrid AF (same as NEX-6) and the 24MP sensor (all the resolution I'll need - 36MP is overkill for me). I also really appreciate that the a7 will get the full benefit of MF Nikkor lenses via my Metabones adapter - but of course, that's true of the a7r, also.

Also, I'm willing to commit to a FF e-mount because it seems to me that Sony sees ILCs as its future; I anticipate that they're moving away from a-mount and going all-in with e-mount... which should be good news for everone, because, with adapters, it's virtually an open-source use-any-lens-you-like system.

1 upvote
Cobber55
By Cobber55 (6 months ago)

I also ordered an A7. My reasons: price, kit lens, faster AF and 24MP will be more than enough for me. I have a NEX 6, which I really enjoy using. I have given away or sold my D5100 and Nikon lenses to help fund the A7 purchase.

1 upvote
wing liu
By wing liu (5 months ago)

A7 is faster for AF user and 1/250 Flash Sync (feels much snappier as a camera); A7R is for those who want the highest and baddest MP (it does feel a little bit slower as AF system is weaker than A7). I personally picked A7. As I am very comfortable with my 22mp 5D3 and I work for Phase One Reseller here in HK and can always use 60-80mp if I really want sharp sharp pro level files.

0 upvotes
Bob Janes
By Bob Janes (6 months ago)

I think a fair amount of the attraction of these cameras is to use legacy MF glass on them: I bought a NEX 7 about 18 months ago and still only have one AF lens, the rest is via adapters.

2 upvotes
Felice62
By Felice62 (5 months ago)

I bought the -6 body only and proudly using some on my old FD lenses via inexpensive adapter and buying sone nice M42 ones to go along.

0 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (6 months ago)

"Sony plans to have a total of fifteen FE lenses by 2015"
So, there's much to do, then let's wait till it happens, and if the lenses are as slow as most of Sony's lenses, we will enjoy life with MF hybrids. A standard lens for any of those 2 cameras had been a prime with 35 mm and 1.8 diaphragm. Let's then wait what Sigma does to see if we get something more fast from their side.

0 upvotes
Bob Janes
By Bob Janes (6 months ago)

No, they both have Mag-alloy top-plates and chassis, but the front plate of the 7r is also magnesium alloy. The construction of the dials is slightly better on the 7r as well.

1 upvote
RTIMD
By RTIMD (6 months ago)

Isn't the A7r magnesium alloy and the A7 composite (being the cheaper camera), at least that was said in the anouncement.

0 upvotes
Bob Janes
By Bob Janes (6 months ago)

Think the comparison panel on page 1 might have a transposition - I understand the 7r has the magnesium alloy front panel, whice the 7 has polycarbonate.

0 upvotes
Riemen
By Riemen (6 months ago)

Like always, Sony is focusing on innovative bodies, but neglects lenses. I own a Nex-7 for nearly 2 years, but still not a half way decent mid-range zoom is available. Probably the same will happen again with the A7.

1 upvote
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