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Ten things we learned this week

By dpreview staff on Oct 11, 2013 at 22:00 GMT
Fast shutter speeds don't always prevent blurry pictures
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Fast shutter speeds don't always prevent blurry pictures

We published our review of the Olympus E-P5 last week, and overall we were extremely impressed by its capabilities and performance in various environments. But we did encounter a major issue with images in some situations, where despite the E-P5's vaunted 5-axis image stabilization, noticeable blur is introduced at shutter speeds of around 160sec.

We did a lot of work on this to try and pin down the cause of the problem (which was the main reason our review took some time to complete) and we'll be publishing more content in the next few days which explains our testing methodology and expands on our findings. 

Comments

Total comments: 87
ABM Barry
By ABM Barry (2 weeks ago)

iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone,
So called smart phone, .... why?

Perhaps compared to some of their owners?

I cast a vote for dumping all editorial space dedicated to phones and replace this sector with Pro only camera's.

Medium format, Mono Rail, Panoramic and the like.

On the other hand, if obtaining the best result and reviewing the good cameras available to us is not the focus of DPR any more, .... Perhaps a name change is in order, .... "Diabolical Phone Results" or something that describes the real content.
Then we photographers will simply usher the good old DPR into fond memory and seek like minded serious photographers elsewhere.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
jcmarfilph
By jcmarfilph (6 months ago)

'Some of you are allergic to Apples
Apple's (approximately) annual product refresh cycle for the iPhone just came around, and as some of the world's most popular cameras, we've been giving the newest iphone, the iPhone 5s, a fair amount of coverage both on dpreview.com and connect. Although we stand by what we've published, a lot of you seem to be allergic to Apples, and you've been telling us so loudly and clearly in your comments.

We'll still publish smartphone content on dpreview occasionally, where there's a good photography-related argument for doing so but if you really don't like seeing this sort of content on our homepage."

For good time and bad times, that word is always there.. always on the news.

Sick and tired of this... Can't you just put Smartphone instead of that word?

A phone with mediocre camera that received all attentions and publicity is the worst thing that ever happened in the word of Photography.

2 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (6 months ago)

> The new K-3 is an impressive DSLR with some great features, but with 'Pentax' written on the front, and 'Ricoh' on the back.

A bit like Panasonic/Lumix cameras then? ("Lumix" on the front, "Panasonic" on the top)

0 upvotes
LukeDuciel
By LukeDuciel (6 months ago)

Kudos to DPR editors. the summary makes total sense for me.

0 upvotes
j2l3m7
By j2l3m7 (6 months ago)

Gee tells us more about all the new cameras.

1 upvote
joe6pack
By joe6pack (6 months ago)

I heard a lot of good things about 5-axis image stabilization. But aren't you pushing the envelope with an exposure of "160sec"? :)

11 upvotes
DanielFjall
By DanielFjall (6 months ago)

Haha!

0 upvotes
tpag2000
By tpag2000 (6 months ago)

There is a typo in this article. It is supposed to say 1/160s. Check out page 13 on the Olympus E-P5 review.

0 upvotes
Alternative Energy Photography

Okay, I clicked through the article and just read the headlines and the first two sentences of each paragraph. I skim, it's what I do best.

I think we're missing one or two items. Didn't we learn anything about Adobe and/or subscription models? Like maybe people hate them? Or maybe people like to say they hate them but they really like them?

I think this article is incomplete without some treatment of this important topic.

EDIT: Oh, it's ten things we learned THIS WEEK. Maybe that was in last week's article...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Bob Meyer
By Bob Meyer (6 months ago)

Not allergic to Apple. Not even allergic to smartphones. But I AM allergic to have what is supposed to be a camera site wasting time and resources on both when you can't keep up with reviewing real cameras.

There are plenty of cell phone review sites. You don't need to be another one. Stick to what your many thousands of readers came here for.

21 upvotes
groucher
By groucher (6 months ago)

It's really weird that DPR feels the need to review phones. Looking at the review comments, there seems little interest in low end cameras either as phone components or 'stand alone'.

1 upvote
Boissez
By Boissez (6 months ago)

Problem is that none of those phone review sites take the time to do a proper review of the phones from a photographer point of view. It's nice top have a more photographer-centric point of view.

3 upvotes
Plastek
By Plastek (6 months ago)

groucher- Weird? Why? You never seen that: https://secure.flickr.com/cameras ?

0 upvotes
Bob Meyer
By Bob Meyer (6 months ago)

11. By dividing short, simple articles across 10 or 12 pages you can get more clicks and make your advertisers happier while annoying your readers.

30 upvotes
Bron
By Bron (6 months ago)

Amen!

Very irritating trend.

3 upvotes
Ken53
By Ken53 (6 months ago)

Same here... I didn't read this article. I don't click a bunch of pages to read tiny bits of information on any website. A sad tactic that seems to be gaining popularity. This trend would go away if no one would bother to read these types of articles.

3 upvotes
Kater Karlo
By Kater Karlo (6 months ago)

I like this kind of summary and I'd like to read one every week!
Cheers

0 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (6 months ago)

"Penticoh"? "Ricax"?

1 upvote
photoramone
By photoramone (6 months ago)

Brain-dead, nit-witty! you funny guy!!

0 upvotes
Optimal Prime
By Optimal Prime (6 months ago)

Why not a list of bloopers while we are at it?

0 upvotes
ABM Barry
By ABM Barry (2 weeks ago)

You say "a list of bloopers"

iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, and the term photographer associated with it.

0 upvotes
KariIceland
By KariIceland (6 months ago)

I don't mind reviews about cellphones, what I do mind is that you seem to be gving unbalanced reviews when it comes to iphones like if you were being paid by apple. However I do like iphones, yes they are good, but please stop being FANBOYISH in your reviews of them, be FACTUAL don't become PROMOTIONAL

15 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

smart phones just took over the place of low end compacts. thus they deserve whatever low end compacts deserve and more at the moment when there are active changes in the market.

0 upvotes
Dvlee
By Dvlee (6 months ago)

Smart phones did not take over for low end compacts, they created a whole new catagory below low end compacts. They created a cataogory of camera for people whose interest in photography is so low that carrying even a low end compact camera is too much of a bother...which turns out to be most of the people who owned low end compacts! They say that the best camera is the one you have with you, but I've found that people who own low end cameras, as tiny as they are, often do not bring their cameras with them! But people who own bulky DSLRs are more likely to drag their cameras with them everywhere they go. For the average person, the cell phone camera means not having to think about bringing their camera because it's built into the phone. So in that regard the cell phone camera is better, only because they have it with them.

3 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

smart phones are not the same thing. they won't have been able to win the game so easily if they were.

0 upvotes
KariIceland
By KariIceland (6 months ago)

Let's just call it "Ricoh" As Pentax is dead to me, the body's are of worse design, and the old design style of Pentax is GONE

0 upvotes
ChazSelf
By ChazSelf (6 months ago)

Yeah. Kick the body design back to the Asahi Pentax.

2 upvotes
groucher
By groucher (6 months ago)

The old (classic) design style of Olympus, Nikon and Canon has gone too. But we do have fully featured boxes with loads of buttons to press and lots of displays to goggle at. Pity most of these 'features' are of little value when taking photos.

1 upvote
Dvlee
By Dvlee (6 months ago)

@ Groucher; That's not really a fair assessment to say that most of those features have little value when taking pictures. These cameras are packed full of usefull features. Which ones you use depends upon your needs, skill level and approach to photography. I always work from RAW files, so picture styles, color balance bracketing and many other automatic functions are useless to me, but to other photographers, those features might be very uselful. Those companies already make a range of cameras to meet the needs of different kinds of photographers. There's no harm in including those features you might not use, in fact it would be more costly to build more models to meet the specific needs of individual photographers than to include as many features as possible into fewer models.

2 upvotes
Cameracist
By Cameracist (6 months ago)

"with 'Pentax' written on the front, and 'Ricoh' on the back, we're still not entirely sure what to actually call it."
...well, my Pentax LX has 'Pentax' written on the front and 'Asahi opt. co.' written on the back. And we all call it Pentax!

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
18 upvotes
Aberaeron
By Aberaeron (6 months ago)

Why not call it 'Susan'?

6 upvotes
Cameracist
By Cameracist (6 months ago)

From this day on, I will. Thanks!:-)

0 upvotes
TacticDesigns
By TacticDesigns (6 months ago)

And Ricoh has been involved with the K-mount before. Anyone remember the Ricoh KR series of SLRs?

3 upvotes
D1N0
By D1N0 (6 months ago)

Ricoh is just reminding everyone they own Pentax. But it is still a Pentax. A Pentax K-3 made by somebody in the Philippines for Ricoh Imaging Corporation. Once they put Ricoh upfront, Pentax will be dead (and Ricoh will soon follow).

4 upvotes
hanhait
By hanhait (6 months ago)

I remember the Ricoh KR, as I used the KRII with a pentax 1.7/50 mm and a pentax 2.5/135 mm. The reason to condinue with Pentax DSLR's.

0 upvotes
groucher
By groucher (6 months ago)

Good one Aberaeron, that gave me a laugh.

0 upvotes
maksa
By maksa (6 months ago)

Not only Apple’s irrigate people. Could you say, how can I avoid ‘What the Duch’ announces at the RSS feed?

2 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (6 months ago)

"Some of you are allergic to Apples" Not what I have noticed, even as an Apple user. Many more people seem to be allergic to "Apple" being used when the applicable term is Smartphone or when other formats already do some of the things touted as breakthroughs by Apple. (And even do them better). Frankly, I am more interested in upgrading to the Samsung Note 3 than the next generation of my iPhone, and I even prefer the camera in it.

4 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (6 months ago)

"when other formats already do some of the things touted as breakthroughs by Apple."
To often when ppl say "This is the best I know of" they mean "This is the only thing I know of".
Not recognizing breakthrough being done "on the other side of the fence" is fairly common around here.
2nd most common thing here are those who have used a hammer for their whole life, and gets a screwdriver in their hands, tries it for an hour and complains that it doesn't do the job.
(please replace hammer and screwdriver for whatever might suit you)

1 upvote
xtoph
By xtoph (6 months ago)

I have to add my objection to the new "click and load 12 pages to view content worth maybe 2" design i have seen a few times here recently.

Not only is it tedious and timewasting, but it is incovenient if you want to compare anything or review anything you just read as you go along.

Please dont go this way--just makes your site look like "10 wardrobe malfunctions" clickbait nonsense.

17 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (6 months ago)

I agree completely. I hate these clickbait "list" articles. Apart from which, this is about the 4th webpage I visit regularly that does this. BBC even uses the same title. I don't mind the idea, but it's not exactly fresh.

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
15 upvotes
locke_fc
By locke_fc (6 months ago)

I couldn't agree more. Click-bait never fails to keep me away, no matter how interesting the title. Get rid of it, DPR

4 upvotes
Bron
By Bron (6 months ago)

+1 - hate it, <click>, hate it , <click> ,hate it!

1 upvote
Clueless Wanderer
By Clueless Wanderer (6 months ago)

Nobody should have duct tape in their bag. When you try to remove it, it either damages what is was sticking to or leaves a horrible goo behind. Considerate photographers use gaffer tape. Its very strong but not as aggressive as Duct tape..

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
8 upvotes
ToolMan78
By ToolMan78 (6 months ago)

My thoughts exactly. Duct tape is designed not to come back off. Gaffers tape is and does without leaving a residue.

1 upvote
PatMann
By PatMann (6 months ago)

And is MUCH tackier in spite of being less damaging to surfaces. Once I got the real thing, never going back.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

I need both. black cloth/paper gaffers tape and colored vinyl duct tape for marking/identifying/repairing ...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
PenGun
By PenGun (6 months ago)

Gorilla Tape. I have maybe 4' wrapped onto one of my tripod legs. Makes a good handle and is very strong stuff.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

some people say they prefer gaffers tapes because they are easier to remove. that's not my problem. not a big one. I'm more for the base that cloth/paper reflect light less than vinyl. also gaffers tapes are strong enough for most of binding (vinyl binds better when stretched).

I use vinyl tapes with easy to recognize color (not too bright red or green) and may cover with gaffers tape for serious work.

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (6 months ago)

Newsletter says that Pentax and Sony announce "major DSLR cameras this week", was that a typo or do we know in advance something....??? :)

2 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (6 months ago)

No major Sony DSLRs are in the pipeline (so far as I know). I just checked the last newsletter and yes, indeed, it did say Sony when it should have said 'Nikon'. Sorry about that. That'll teach me for writing those things late in the evening....

3 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (6 months ago)

No Sony DSLRs - but perhaps you had your mind on some major Sony cameras that are not DSLRs :)

Time will tell

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
D1N0
By D1N0 (6 months ago)

Sony doesn't make dslrs they make SLT's Since there is apparently a hopefully new Sony 24mp sensor in the K-3 (Ricoh confirmed it is a Sony sensor, but not whether it is a new one or the one from the A77) a a78 and a Nex-7n are due.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

SLTs are in the pipeline to the hell.

0 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (6 months ago)

A summary of all the things is a good way forward, preferably weekly!

0 upvotes
massimogori
By massimogori (6 months ago)

Maybe yearly.

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (6 months ago)

This "Ten Things We Learned" is way cool.

It sort of wraps up the whole week of interesting things on DPR.

If weekly is too much, then fortnightly or monthly is still cool.

Keep on truckin"!

.

13 upvotes
Vinny311
By Vinny311 (6 months ago)

I agree!!...I like it very much...

1 upvote
Ferling
By Ferling (6 months ago)

I think it's a smart move.

1 upvote
massimogori
By massimogori (6 months ago)

Absolutely. It puts dpreview in the same league as intellectual magazines as Men's health or Focus.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (6 months ago)

You got some virtual positive points from me. This type of talk about D600 and D610 was exactly what I thought about when I wrote that bit under D610 first impressions.

I would call Pentax K-3 simply Pentax K-, cause its simply presented as such.

Im also quite curious about that 1/160 issue. I know this from first hand, but I have camera which is ages old (not new), but with IBIS too.My problematic speed is 1/25 everything under is fine, everything over too. My guess is that it might be related either to shutter shock, or some sync frequency rate (IBIS probably vibrates at certain frequency, that frequency might be somehow related to this, just idea).

Overall, I like this summary, keep it going. :)

0 upvotes
Deliverator
By Deliverator (6 months ago)

Google "resonance".

0 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (6 months ago)

Again, not a fan of having to click "next" for every single item on the list. Hate that design, hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it. (By the way, I notice that the same ads remain, so what's the point?)

"Shutter shock" on the Olympus E-5--a lot of Olympus users have complained about that, and despite the great images the E-PL1 and E-PM1 were capable of, it, along with the fact that it took Olympus forever to improve their sensors, is why I moved to Sony NEX via C3. I've never noticed the shutter shock problem when using it, & its sensor was way ahead of the older m4/3rds models, the newer m4/3rds models cost much more since it took them so long to get the newer sensor.

15 upvotes
Alternative Energy Photography

I was about to read this article, then subconsciously trying to procrastinate the click click clickfest, I jumped down here to see if anybody had written anything interesting that would not require a reload and that lag for the ads.

I agree with you. In fact, I agree so much, I think I'll just skip the article. Ads here take too long to load, and surely I can find something better to do with my Friday evening.

9 upvotes
scrup
By scrup (6 months ago)

I don't even read the articles anymore. I just go straight to the comments for a summary.

9 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (6 months ago)

@scrup - you're playing with fire!

2 upvotes
Martin-C
By Martin-C (6 months ago)

Interesting that if you view on the mobile site therr is no click needed, all items are on one page.

2 upvotes
Alternative Energy Photography

Martin-C, I will try this! Maybe I just need to shift my reading of DPR to iPad.

And people say they don't know what they'd do with an iPad, pah!

0 upvotes
3dreal
By 3dreal (6 months ago)

If there is nothing else to do, do a summary....

1 upvote
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (6 months ago)

A summary of all the things that we've done, yes.

6 upvotes
KerryBE
By KerryBE (6 months ago)

Keep up the great work!

3 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (6 months ago)

I wish you'd write more about shutter shock.

On one side there are so many discussions going on about it and so much confusion.

On the other side there are the manufacturers who don't even acknowledge the problem exists.

2 upvotes
Mr AJB
By Mr AJB (6 months ago)

The thing is with Apple :) and mobile phones in general is having high megapixel cameras on them as gimmicks sells the phones to gain the phone contracts from people, which earns the phone companies a pretty penny or two, and saying that mobile phone users are competing with DSLR sales maybe a fallacy......this has no doubt been said before so thought I'd say it again ;).......sorry.

0 upvotes
graybalanced
By graybalanced (6 months ago)

Wow...it'd be nice to have a list of all the commenters who suggested duct tape, because I wouldn't want that awful, messy, residue-shedding stuff anywhere near my camera bag. I'm not sure I'd trust someone who suggested using duct tape on any photo equipment that is not an actual duct.

Gaffers tape or GTFO.

3 upvotes
carlos roncatti
By carlos roncatti (6 months ago)

Good post..and great job...and 11# smartphones are trying hard to show of as great fashion, art, national geographic and etc tools...lol..just kidding...

1 upvote
Sharpeshots
By Sharpeshots (6 months ago)

Really BAD idea.
Duct tape will leave sticky residue all over anything you put it on.
GAFFER'S tape Looks the same but is entirely different.
Trust an old Pro on this.
Gaffer's tape IS the real deal.
Any good film supply house or camera store will have plenty of Gagger's Tape onhand
John Sharpe/Sharpeshots

9 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

I prefer cloth but I know many in the military prefer vinyl.

0 upvotes
dylanbarnhart
By dylanbarnhart (6 months ago)

No, that's misuse of duct tape. It was meant to shut up the whiners and the trolls.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

> switchable anti-aliasing

the only attack to the problem is more pixels
but makers cannot help removing the LPF for cost saving
and there are users who prefer lower quality images.

1 upvote
HelloToe
By HelloToe (6 months ago)

Not really, aliasing is going to be present on anything that uses digital sampling. That's just the way sampling works.

There's an old maxim in the world of 3D modeling & animation: higher resolution is not a substitute for anti-aliasing, and anti-aliasing is not a substitute for higher resolution. I wonder how long it will take photographers to figure that out...

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

> it's going to be present

as long as we are sensor resolution challenged.

0 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (6 months ago)

Imho, sensors should outresolve the lens, then the need for AA filter goes away and you get everything you can from the lens.
Only pixelpeepers will cry because the images are soft.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

pixel peepers exist because cameras are pixel challenged.

pixel size should be at least smaller than the first radius of smallest Airy disk a best lens can deliver. a best lens may be a perfect f/2.8 for 35mm format (like 50/1.4 stopped down), or < 1 micron pixel (stacked RGB, about 0.7 micron for Bayer).

Comment edited 15 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
biggercountry
By biggercountry (6 months ago)

I really appreciate how much class you guys have, in spite of the inevitable trolls you have to deal with. A rundown of the talk on your site is impressive. Keep up the good work.

6 upvotes
King Penguin
By King Penguin (6 months ago)

Great summary.....can you do one every week :)

8 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (6 months ago)

At the rate new cameras are being announced this autumn we'll be doing one every couple of days!

10 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (6 months ago)

I wouldn't exactly call the D610 "new" - but perhaps, now that they've got that out of the way, Nikon should announce something interesting to make people stop discussing the whole affair.

Comment edited 51 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Total comments: 87