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Just posted: Fujifilm X20 hands-on preview

By dpreview staff on Jan 8, 2013 at 00:00 GMT

Just posted: Our hands-on preview of Fujifilm's updated enthusiast zoom compact, the X20. Using the same basic design as X10, including its fast 28-112mm equivalent F2-2.8 zoom lens, the X20 uses a completely new sensor, a 2/3"-type version of the X-Trans CMOS design used in the company's X-system cameras, but with added on-chip phase detection AF. It also gains an 'Advanced Optical Viewfinder' that's capable of displaying overlaid exposure information, and a couple of design tweaks to take better advantage of this. In our preview we take a closer look at what the X20 has to offer the enthusiast photographer.

198
I own it
87
I want it
31
I had it
Discuss in the forums

Comments

Total comments: 127
Timmbits
By Timmbits (Apr 16, 2013)

Owning an X-s1, I LOVE the generous controls and their layout and all, on the Fuji cameras. I'd like to get this one, but I have trouble justifying it on account of it's size. It's nearly as large as some APSC mirrorless cameras with a prime lens on them. (for applications where you can make-do with a prime)

An RX100 is about HALF the size of the X20 with the lens retracted. The X20 is larger than an APSC Canon-M +22mm, nearly as large as Samsung NX210/300 +30mm, a Fuji X100s...

I'd like a fourth camera - something like this to slip into my pocket and just have on me all the time, versus taking the decision to take or not to take my APSC along, but it's just so big! I can't see how it makes any sense... yet I just love the controls, AND the Fuji sensors! A pity really.

Maybe it's target market isn't as a pocket complement to larger sensor owners, but rather as people's first enthusiast camera?

Take a look at size comparison here: http://j.mp/118xBFw

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 15 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Matt1645f4
By Matt1645f4 (Jan 18, 2013)

I love my X10 i've never opted for the sensor replacement as the image quality is better with the original sensor and over the last 18 months i've had maybe 3 or 4 images with orbs. But the new x trans cmos sensor makes it a very appealing option, the image quality of that technology on the x-pro and xe-1 has been stunning. and now comes in Silver it looks even better than before. Fuji have really turned Camera design around and given us the best of new and old!!!!

2 upvotes
asad137
By asad137 (Jan 14, 2013)

Anyone else bummed that Fuji dumped the EXR sensor? The X10 looked compelling as a camera to stick in 6MP DR400 mode and never have to worry about blown highlights -- the perfect everyday walkaround camera -- if it wasn't for the other issues. Now they seem to have fixed the other issues, but the extended DR modes are just the same highlight protection that everyone else uses with its attendant shadow noise penalty.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Indulis Bernsteins
By Indulis Bernsteins (Jan 20, 2013)

With the EXR sensor you drop resolution for dynamic range. With the X-trans you can get DR400 for ISO 800 at full res, on the X-E1 this is very low noise anyway. ISO3200 on the X-E1 is like ISO 400 on the X10. So, with the X-trans you won't get blown highlights, you will just have to bump the ISO up to a practically noise-free 800. Carry an ND filter for bright sunlight (4 stop).
Compare the X10 at ISO 100 with the X-E1 or X-Pro1 at ISO 800 using the studio shot comparison widget available in any full review (not preview). Similar res/noise. The widget will always give you the reviewed camera but then pick the X10 and X-E1/X-Pro1 in the other windows and ignore the review camera. Use the JPEG images for the X-trans 'cos the raw processors aren't as good as in-camera yet (mostly). The thread spools are a good comparison point in the image.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-lx7/10

More about dynamic range here
http://connect.dpreview.com/previews/fujifilm-x-e1/7

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
le_alain
By le_alain (Jan 21, 2013)

X20 is 2/3", X-E1 is apsc,
can't say from this comparaison that X20 will have same noise at 800 than X-E1, because it has an Xtrans sensor !

1 upvote
Timmbits
By Timmbits (Apr 16, 2013)

@bersteins: it is ludicrous to think that comparing the x10 at iso100 with anything at iso800 is a fair (or competent) comparison... and an insult to our intelligence to think that no one would question that!
all that you did is find an iso level on larger sensor cameras with which you can compare it with... but having to go all the way up to iso800 on the apsc doesn't make your x10 look very good at all!
One can make numbers say anything one wants them to... but going to this extent to try an prove a point that you know is erroneous is just pathetic, because you're trying to induce people into error.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Chris Cortazzi
By Chris Cortazzi (Jan 12, 2013)

I look forward to buying this camera once available, but also to reading the reviews.
An optical viewfinder wit 85% coverage of area only loses 4% linear on the edges. (0,92x0,92=0,85) This is not such a great amount that it will spoil composition. But information in the viewfinder and fast AF can really help to get the picture you want.

1 upvote
kemal erdogan
By kemal erdogan (Jan 11, 2013)

The Fuji site says that the 12MP sensor use the same technology as XPRO1 and X100S.

it is likely that the sensor is exactly the same APS-C sensor used in the X100S.

I come to this conclusion by the fact the X20 supports all of 9/16, 2/3, 3/4, 1/1 aspect ratios, which implies that the sensor is at least as large as the diameter of the image circle both in height and width.

Least costly option to achieve this is just to use a bit bigger sensor and I think Fuji took that path. Lower pixel count is also consistent with that possibility.

And, I am thrilled at the possibility of having the low light capabilities of Xpro1 in such a small camera

0 upvotes
SamTruax
By SamTruax (Jan 11, 2013)

Sorry, you are confusing me. How exactly can the 2/3 sensor of the X20 be the same as the APS-C sensor in the X100s? The size isn't even close. Maybe they are using the same techonology, processing, whatever but I don't think it is possible to have the same sensor.

0 upvotes
kemal erdogan
By kemal erdogan (Jan 11, 2013)

OH, yes, I checked again the sensor sizes, 12MP vs 16MP warrants not that much difference in the surface area, the X20 pixel density must be higher but it is indeed possible to use a larger sensor on the front of a lens with a smaller image circle

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Nukunukoo
By Nukunukoo (Jan 11, 2013)

While that's possible, I doubt it. The difference in pitch sizes is great and not as close as you might think (2/3 is around five times smaller than APS-C, plus a 16MP density is only 25% greater than a 12MP one at the same pitch. The math does not agree with you even with multiple aspects) . In addition, a large photosite pitch does not need BSI, which the X20's sensor has.

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
kemal erdogan
By kemal erdogan (Jan 11, 2013)

yes, indeed. The difference is surface area is much bigger than the pixel count. sorry my bad

0 upvotes
Yohanes Sondang Kunto
By Yohanes Sondang Kunto (Jan 11, 2013)

X10 is already very good. I love it! I got the first batch that has blooming problem. I bought it in Ireland. Since I stay in Indonesia, I thought Fuji Indonesia will not honor my X10 guarantee. It turns out they giving me new sensor on November 2012. It is for free!

Now the X20 is coming. Aperture, Exposure, Flash information in viewfinder are great.The X20 operates more likely as dSLR than a compact camera. The only thing that I want to be there in X20 is the Fn button could be programmed so in M mode, we could use the Fn + rear top dial to change Aperture/Shutter Speed. Then X20 will be a perfect companion of someone coming from dSLR world.

1 upvote
3systermuser
By 3systermuser (Jan 10, 2013)

oh this one really looks crappy, I will take the RX1 anyday over this toy.

1 upvote
Yohanes Sondang Kunto
By Yohanes Sondang Kunto (Jan 11, 2013)

Sorry I cannot agree with you on "this one really looks crappy". It is all about taste and every people have different opinion. And my opinion is Fuji X20 looks gorgeous! Not only gorgeous, the X10 and now the X20 seems more designed to advance user that want full control of their camera.

4 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jan 12, 2013)

So your comparing a high end P&S to a FF P&S that cost 6 times more? Interesting.

As far as looking crappy, that's really a reach since few compacts are made with more quality materials and construction than the X20. Nice try though.

5 upvotes
ogl
By ogl (Jan 10, 2013)

X10 had bad sensor and no good lens. Compare with XZ-2 in RAW and JPEG. XZ-2 is far better.

1 upvote
papillon_65
By papillon_65 (Jan 10, 2013)

Actually both the sensor and the lens are very good on the X10, I find it's always a good idea to actually use the equipment I comment on, you should try it sometime.

4 upvotes
peterjaena
By peterjaena (Jan 11, 2013)

My sentiments exactly..... before commenting, please try and actually own an X10.

1 upvote
Yohanes Sondang Kunto
By Yohanes Sondang Kunto (Jan 11, 2013)

For those who know how to control and want to control their camera entirely, Fuji X10 and even now the newest X20 will be the first option compared to XZ-2 or any other compact camera alternatives in the market.

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Robert Eckerlin
By Robert Eckerlin (Jan 10, 2013)

It is only very recently that i came across mentions of "the fuji colors”.

Can somebody please point me to webpages or to pdf documents that explain (to non-experts) and illustrate the "fuji colors" by comparing photos of the the same subject shot one time with a good non-Fuji camera and another time with a good Fuji camera?

Thank You very much in advance.

Notes: I have already asked that question in an older dpreview thread …probably, because the thread was old, nobody noticed my question. I also asked the question to the Swiss support of Fuji without much success.

1 upvote
koshiw
By koshiw (Jan 11, 2013)

It's one of those photographer "preference" people refer to, not really a technical comparison such as image quality or focus speed. You can check out Steve Huff's website and he has a review on Fuji X10 in which "fuji color" gets several mentions.

I myself have both Sony RX100 & Fuji X10. I shoot the same subject using both in jpeg, and I compare. You do that and you'll see the difference. Fuji color is vibrant and yet very realistic, like film photos.

1 upvote
Robert Eckerlin
By Robert Eckerlin (Jan 11, 2013)

Koshiw: Thank You very much.

0 upvotes
Nukunukoo
By Nukunukoo (Jan 10, 2013)

Sadly, while the likelihood of me getting this camera is high, I still do need to know two issues that might change my mind:

(1) Will Fujifilm try to help third-party RAW software to come up with a better converter outside of SilkyPix?
(2) Does the X20's video control include manual tweaking beyond the focus/zoom and canned presets?

0 upvotes
JonB1975
By JonB1975 (Jan 9, 2013)

Hopefully, we'll see an XS-2 with these improvements and a better lens too...

0 upvotes
rallyfan
By rallyfan (Jan 9, 2013)

Looks proper, looks interesting, would probably make a terrific gift. It's a shame they missed the holidays, I suspect this would have flown off the shelves. Fuji are coming out very strong.

1 upvote
Digitall
By Digitall (Jan 9, 2013)

Cute camera, nice specs., I hope this model don't come with free white disc blooming issue.

2 upvotes
armanius
By armanius (Jan 9, 2013)

According to the specs, the X20 lhas no face detection AF. Bummer.

0 upvotes
armanius
By armanius (Jan 9, 2013)

Never mind, the website states there IS face detection. Woohoo!

1 upvote
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (Jan 9, 2013)

> a 2/3"-type version of the X-Trans CMOS

Studio test for image comparator? Please please?

0 upvotes
digby dart
By digby dart (Jan 9, 2013)

Its good to see Fuji building upon each model in the X-series, improvements appearing across the range, successes being repeated. This is proving to be a real development strategy, with no holding back on available technology.

Where X series mistakes or the unforeseen has happened Fuji's warranty has followed through, they seem to be after getting everything in the x-series just right - they want to be the best.

The x20 2/3" X-trans should out resolve a v2 1" sensor by some margin, not enough to bridge the 4/3 gap, however the very fast x20 f2.0-2.8 lens should easily make up for that - all with the x20 being a fraction of the price of the other two.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (Jan 10, 2013)

"Where X series mistakes or the unforeseen has happened Fuji's warranty has followed through, they seem to be after getting everything in the x-series just right - they want to be the best."

That's a complete joke. In many market places internationally they told NO-ONE about the orbs problem on the X10 and the only way you got it fixed was by knowing about it from other places, like DPReview, and giving them hell. In my area, even in their company-run online Fuji "fan club" they made not one mention of the recall/replacement programme. Not one. After months of pretending it was something all cameras did. They even removed references to it from their Facebook page. Unethical in the extreme.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Jan 10, 2013)

Let's think about this. The people who had problems with the orbs were so vocal that the only way anyone on earth could not know would be if they never saw them in the first place. Fortunately for Fuji the vast majority of X10 owners either did not have the problem or didn't see it. This is obvious from the mostly positive buyer comments on Amazon, B&H, etc.

But what a great suggestion. Fuji should have contacted every owner of an X10 and told them they had a problem; they just didn't know it.

0 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (Jan 10, 2013)

The V2 sensor is not impressive, but the Fuji x-trans sensors to date haven't been as sharp as I'd hoped for. The regularity of the Bayer array has its good points, even with an anti-aliasing filter reducing sharpness, and Fuji's alternative doesn't seem significantly better. Especially with such poor support from third parties.

0 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (Jan 12, 2013)

Well, first, other camera manufacturers I have owned HAVE contacted users with registered warranties when there have been such faults, and second you missed the point where I said Fuji had actually REMOVED references from the camera fan club pages, when at least an announcement would have been the ethical thing to do.

1 upvote
Frenske
By Frenske (Jan 9, 2013)

Still waiting on a semi-large sensor compact with a semi-fast lens that starts at 24mm and possible goes up to 120mm. One can dream, can we?

0 upvotes
Kodachrome200
By Kodachrome200 (Jan 9, 2013)

physics wont let that be compact

1 upvote
Josh152
By Josh152 (Jan 9, 2013)

Just look at the size of the G1X and the RX100 lenses and imagine how big they would have to be if they had larger max apertures, especially at the tele end.

1 upvote
Frenske
By Frenske (Jan 10, 2013)

But hold on the RX100 has a bigger sensor and of course you will need a bigger lens to provide a the larger disk. However let's say a 24-120mm f2-f3.5 is not that far off the current lens, 28-112mm f2-f2.8.
Having something like a 24mm is very important for me, as a regular landscape, cityscape, architecture travel-photographer (hobbyist).

0 upvotes
RobertSigmund
By RobertSigmund (Jan 9, 2013)

Normally I find that an upgrade in cameras after just one or even two generations isn't worth the money. Just think about Canon 20 D, a real milestone, and the subsequent generations.
In case of Fuji X 10/X 20 it could be different.
A viewfinder with information overlay, even showing the AF field, and a considerably faster and safer focus alone could be worth it (of course, I'll wait for some tests).
Whether the sensor is really better? I am curious. I like the EXR auto mode and would miss it.
Also, the chrome finish is nice. Hope it does not peel off!

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jan 8, 2013)

I've had good luck with the X10 as some of my favorite images are from it. It's a blast to shoot with and with the improved PDAF it should be even better. So I'm sure one of these new Fuji cameras will find a place in my bag soon.

0 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (Jan 9, 2013)

> and with the improved PDAF

You surely mean "and improved by PDAF."

X20 has PDAF, X10 - not.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Jan 10, 2013)

Yes, that was awkwardly worded. The X20 and the addition of PDAF should be great, although AF on the X10 rarely let me down.

0 upvotes
LaFonte
By LaFonte (Jan 8, 2013)

Pretty good, I want to see how the small x-trans performs - fingers crossed.

1 upvote
Cameron R Hood
By Cameron R Hood (Jan 8, 2013)

Wow...been up for almost a DAY now and Samsung hasn't copied it yet...

5 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (Jan 9, 2013)

Sorry but my lady's Samsung Galaxy phone makes my iPhone look small, pinched and retro. It isn't a copy. It's an improvement. Apple will be copying Samsung next with a bigger screen because they will recognise this.

As for the Fuji camera, after the X10 debacle I am DONE with Fuji.

4 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (Jan 9, 2013)

DPR, why no down-vote button??

2 upvotes
88SAL
By 88SAL (Jan 9, 2013)

Regardless of the problems, look at an x10, also taking into its price point, look what it offers, and say... that is not an appealing looking package.

2 upvotes
JadedGamer
By JadedGamer (Jan 9, 2013)

Samsung are too busy getting a phone OS to run on a compact camera to notice.

0 upvotes
EssexAsh
By EssexAsh (Jan 8, 2013)

does the lens still cut off the bottom right of the viewfinder when zoomed?

0 upvotes
SHood
By SHood (Jan 8, 2013)

Yes. Fuji could not remove the lens.

2 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Jan 8, 2013)

it is better than no viewfinder ;)

2 upvotes
EssexAsh
By EssexAsh (Jan 8, 2013)

so an 85% viewfinder turns into a 65% viewfinder if you want to zoom in. Awesom! Give me no viewfinder please, why get my hopes up.

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jan 8, 2013)

So you'd rather have no VF than have a tiny obstruction when zoomed in? Makes zero sense, but OK.

6 upvotes
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (Jan 8, 2013)

Aehm, what about having EVF instead?

3 upvotes
JhvaElohimMeth
By JhvaElohimMeth (Jan 8, 2013)

marike6 : without the crappy optical finder, it would be smaller!! a good evf would be so much better!

1 upvote
Robert Eckerlin
By Robert Eckerlin (Jan 9, 2013)

We are all different and that is great: but I am not at all interested in a EVF. I would not be interested in a X20 without OVF.

1 upvote
zinedi
By zinedi (Jan 9, 2013)

Full conformity with Eckerlin. OVF is the key factor of sex-appeal of this camera for me. I am not against the concept of EVF, but in such evolution stage as they are today - even the best 2.4mpix OLED - are awful for me from many reasons many time mentioned here, but the most serious reason is that it hurts my eyes - conjunctivitis.

0 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (Jan 10, 2013)

It's better than any other current compact camera ovf, reasonably large and bright. Better yet if it were accurate and unobstructed, but that would require a much larger camera than this, and there is always the LCD for shots where the framing must be perfect. For the rest I'm sure the owner will learn to make allowances for the inaccuracy, as people did when I was young and few had SLRs. I wish the ovf showed too much and not too little, but what's a good camera without a few quirks. From having played with the X10 some, I'm sure the X20 will be very appealing.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Essai
By Essai (Jan 8, 2013)

saying "thank you" to a company is really pathetic. Fuji fanboys have to be the weirdest fanboy on dpreview.

3 upvotes
DDWD10
By DDWD10 (Jan 8, 2013)

Two years ago I wouldn't imagine ever hearing the words "Fuji fanboys". They must be on to something with the X line, no?

11 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (Jan 9, 2013)

"Two years ago I wouldn't imagine ever hearing the words "Fuji fanboys"." You must have skipped the Fuji forums.

2 upvotes
le_alain
By le_alain (Jan 9, 2013)

As no other company propose equivalent cameras, those waiting for these cameras can thanks Fuji !
There is something else in photography that compact with 16Mpx and very poor A4 printing, or 800x600 viewing, good enthousiasts cameras but without viewfinder, evevn shooting with an EVF is not a pleasing experience, big dslr and smartphone.
No need to be a fanboy!

1 upvote
Josh152
By Josh152 (Jan 9, 2013)

You should go look at the comments on the best camera of 2012 article. The Fuji fanboys have NOTHING on the m4/3s fanboys in the weird/extreme department.

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (Jan 10, 2013)

Agree with Josh completely. I still consider m4/3 pretty substandard. Always disappointed when I capitulate and use it.

1 upvote
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (Jan 10, 2013)

If m4/3 is substandard, what is a 2/3" sensor good for? Compared to a few years ago almost all cameras are pretty wonderful. I'd be very happy with an E-M5 and a bag full of excellent m4/3 lenses. And I'd be happy with an X20 or X10 in most situations.

0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Jan 11, 2013)

My problem with M4/3 and pretty much all mirroless cameras is they don't fit in a pocket with a lens attached unless it's a pancake prime. If you are going to carry a non pocket camera you might as well just carry one with a larger sensor than m4/3s. The X20 fits in the pocket with a decent zoom range and will likely have IQ that comes very close to an RX100.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
MarcLee
By MarcLee (Jan 12, 2013)

"... and a bag full of excellent m4/3 lenses.'' Good luck finding a bag full of excellent m4/3 lenses.

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Jan 8, 2013)

i think - thank you FUJI for this awesome Camera - love it

8 upvotes
Auke B van der Weide
By Auke B van der Weide (Jan 8, 2013)

Great little gem.
Anybody any thoughts about a comparison with the Sony RX100?

Oh I wish Fuji will deliver one day a digital Xpan rangefinder! Just make it half the size a fullframe :)

0 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (Jan 9, 2013)

2/3" X-Trans sensor vs. 1" Bayer sensor - might be very interesting.

0 upvotes
Raskolnikow90
By Raskolnikow90 (Jan 8, 2013)

What a beauty
Viewfinder, fast lens, fast speed, controls, raw and x-trans will prvide outstanding image quality...
Nice to see such a cam, i hope competitors will follow..
Its a pity there is no 24mm and nd filter, that probably would have make me dump my old GF(1) =)

Great work fuji!!!

Comment edited 26 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Ivan Glisin
By Ivan Glisin (Jan 8, 2013)

Speaking of an ND filter: X10/20 do have filter thread. So go ahead and get a real filter, or a set with several densities, get a graduated ND, polarizier... or whatever you want.

Any closer to dumping GF1 now? :-)

0 upvotes
Given
By Given (Jan 8, 2013)

Great X20..., great Fujifilm! Thank You Fujifilm to take in account real photography , not just an electronic performance

2 upvotes
HomoSapiensWannaBe
By HomoSapiensWannaBe (Jan 8, 2013)

Fantastic design, Fuji!

After reviewing the impressive feature set, my only wish is that they had used a 24-120 equivalent lens instead of the 28-112.

It will be great when Adobe and Fuji get full RAW support in Lightroom. Until then, the likely excellent and "tuneable" JPGs this camera will produce should suffice for most shooting situations.

1 upvote
rhombus
By rhombus (Jan 8, 2013)

I wonder if the 'silver' finish is chrome over metal, or just silver paint?

1 upvote
zinedi
By zinedi (Jan 8, 2013)

I want to express my greatest respect to FUJI for implementing of revolutionary OVF in this compact camera category. FUJI goes against the consumerist main stream manufacturers who omit quality viewfinders or viewfinders at all. It is a good message for us who want better PHOTOGRAPHIC tool, not only spectacular toy. Thanks Fuji.

13 upvotes
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Jan 8, 2013)

A parallax view finder with 85% coverage is neither a quality view finder or anything worth boasting about.

1 upvote
zinedi
By zinedi (Jan 8, 2013)

Everything must be judged in context with competition in it's category. For me - OVF is always better than lagging and flickering EVF. OVF with all needed information was a dream of many photographers - it is reality now, thanks to FUJI and ONLY Fuji. EVF plastic phone-like cameras are many - not for me.

3 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (Jan 10, 2013)

It's a quality viewfinder for a reasonably priced compact camera when competitors often have none at all, or a tiny tunnel (hello, Canon) that is just as inaccurate, much dimmer, and displays no info at all. I agree this should be more accurate, but compared to competing models it's a masterpiece.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Luc de Schepper
By Luc de Schepper (Jan 8, 2013)

The target group for this camera mostly don't care about wifi and ultra high res lcd. A higher res screen would have been nice but as it is the screen is good enough. Also, the price would have been (even) higher.

10 upvotes
spidermoon
By spidermoon (Jan 8, 2013)

Nice retro look'n feel camera, but missing some today features, like wifi control and apps and always the old low res lcd.

0 upvotes
Joerampi
By Joerampi (Jan 8, 2013)

what you expact from Wifi control?

0 upvotes
6x9
By 6x9 (Jan 8, 2013)

Yep! And Android OS should be a must in modern cameras. And I hope that we will see this happening at large scale. Seriously.

0 upvotes
SETI
By SETI (Jan 8, 2013)

If only Adobe can do full support of X-Trans CMOS
Now it's deal killer for me. Lightroom can't do well with Fuji RAWs

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Jan 8, 2013)

With any luck, eventually Fuji and Adobe will get it together with RAW conversion.

The only saving grace with this issue is JPEGs are so excellent with the X10, but I agree that in this class of camera good RAW support is essential. But it's such a nice camera to use, I'd be willing to overlook the RAW issue, but do hope they get it together.

0 upvotes
Casadilla
By Casadilla (Jan 8, 2013)

SETI, precisely.

I admire Fuji for thinking outside the box with their hardware and designs.

But, those in the market for this type of camera--like myself--rely on Adobe products in their workflow. For example, I only shoot RAW.

This shortcoming in image processing makes Fuji cameras (XF1 included) not an option.

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Robert Eckerlin
By Robert Eckerlin (Jan 9, 2013)

I was surprised to read that Adobe does not provide a (reasonable?) RAW support for some atractive Fuji cameras. I really want to have such a support: both in that version of Adobe Camera RAW that comes with PSE and in Lightroom.

It is really time, that Fuji and Adobe fix that issue.

2 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Jan 9, 2013)

I love fuji's designs but any camera without good RAW support in LR is an automatic no buy for me.

1 upvote
quackular
By quackular (Jan 9, 2013)

The ball is in Fuji's court.
For competitive / IP reasons, Fuji wont release to Adobe the technology that will allow them to develop an effective RAW processor. Heck, even the raw software that you get with the camera is not optimal. The Bayer array is a well known technology and can be easily adapted to new cameras that use that technology.
The X trans chip is so different and will take significant resources even for Adobe to reverse engineer compared to the amount of cameras that use the Bayer array.
I guess this issue will be solved eventually but for know we are stuck. It can happen more quickly if Fuji cooperates.

2 upvotes
JonB1975
By JonB1975 (Jan 9, 2013)

Apparently Capture One have cracked it (version 7.02 beta). The ball is now in Adobe's court.

2 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Jan 9, 2013)

How do you know fuji isn't cooperating? Maybe it's just harder for Adobe make LR play nice with the X trans sensors than you are assuming. Or perhaps adobe isn't giving it a very high priority with so many new cameras coming out lately from the major players who have a much much larger user base.

Adobe will do just fine if X trans is never supported. ACR/Lightroom is the current industry standard. It is Fuji who needs Adobe's software to work well with their cameras and who is losing sales because it doesn't. The suggestion they would hinder that process is laughable. They would have to be INSANE not to do everything in their power to expedite ACR/LR working well with their cameras.

1 upvote
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (Jan 10, 2013)

The X-Trans filter array isn't being kept a secret - Fuji uses it to promote the camera. I'm sure what we're seeing is that it's costly to develop good demosaicing software for a novel array and Adobe hasn't seen the need. Now that Fuji is using it across several lines Adobe may change their mind. Or they may have been telling Fuji all along that they couldn't do any better and that there would be better support when Fuji provided the routines.

Of course the other possibility is that Fuji has been promising too much and this IS as goid as it gets. I find that quite possible. The Bayer array may well be the best possible array for sharpness, even with an AA filter. That checkerboard of green sensels provides a great deal of even, fine-grained luminance data. The X-Trans array is much less regular by intent, and it wouldn't surprise me if that irregularity reduced sharpness about as much as a modern AA filter. They've been weakening as resolutions have increased.

2 upvotes
Darren_Birkin
By Darren_Birkin (Jan 8, 2013)

Not sure I understand the comment about the X20 having better pottential for out of focus backgrounds than a camera with a larger sensor and larger maximum aperture. How does that work? You said it's counter intuitive which it is but you don't say why it is that way.

0 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (Jan 10, 2013)

If you're referring to Shamael below, what he said was that greater DOF is sometimes a good thing, and sometimes hard to achieve with a large sensor. 19th Century photographers would certainly agree. They almost all wanted as much depth of field as possible, to emulate the ability of a person to see clearly both nearby and far away. Those out-of-focus areas were just unsightly blurs. You didn't see that on a Rembrandt.

0 upvotes
veato
By veato (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm loving the hilarious "it will fail because it doesn't have a 1" sensor" comments. So any compact that doesn't feature a larger sensor is now destined to fail (regardless of other features), right?

Presumably all photos taken on the X20 will be crap because, you know, sensor.

10 upvotes
Ariston
By Ariston (Jan 8, 2013)

the 1" sensor will fail because of m4/3.

4 upvotes
veato
By veato (Jan 8, 2013)

Haha, yep.

And m4/3 because of APS-C and APS-C because of full frame and full frame because of medium format.

So let's all bin whatever rubbish camera we currently have and buy MF. It's clearly the best because, you know, sensor.

12 upvotes
mnoach
By mnoach (Jan 8, 2013)

You forgot to mention the Phase One ;-)
Let's all get one, and end this senseless argumenT. BTW: don't forget to trash your current cameras, phones, tablets, webcams... Crap quality may be contagious and a health risk.

1 upvote
Shamael
By Shamael (Jan 8, 2013)

use the sensor sizes to your advantage. Smaller ones to get a sharp all over group shot or tourist souvenir shot, medium sized to get a better IQ and be able to play with DOF and Bokeh. You cant gat all sharp from the front to the end with a larger sensor, but with a smaller one you can play with lenses and get as much DOF and Bokeh as with the larger ones. All has advantage and disadvantage. If my goal is to fill my family album with 9x13 sized shots, a Pentax Q10 does a great job. If you do publicity for a company that covers house wall sized pictures, you better look somewhat higher and bigger. I have an older Fuji F30, and I still believe that, for the family album, it makes amazing shots.

1 upvote
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Jan 8, 2013)

Looks like a nice camera on the outside, but nowhere near enough inside to compete with Sony's juggernaut. Fuji will be lucky to move these things at $400.

0 upvotes
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (Jan 8, 2013)

What?
2 different camera for 2 different types of people.
Ones a point and shoot that is pocketable with minimal controls, for point and shooters....
The other is a point and shoot with alot of contol, a OVF, a fast manual zoom lens, PDAF, and for enthusiasts.
Also....with the fuji...you get the fuji colors.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
13 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jan 8, 2013)

The Sony juggernaut? A 1" sensor does not a great camera make. The RX100 still has a dog slow lens at the telephoto lens, mediocre image processing, no VF, and not many manual controls relative to the X20. The Fuji colors also are much nicer than Sony's.

The 1/3 of a stop EV better high ISO of the Sony RX100 over the X10 is not such a big deal for most.

5 upvotes
Ariston
By Ariston (Jan 8, 2013)

Sony juggernaut? oh my, the fanboyism always brings out the stupidity in people. lol

5 upvotes
Robert Eckerlin
By Robert Eckerlin (Jan 9, 2013)

Combatmedic870 and marike6: it is only very recently that i came across mentions of "the fuji colors".

Can you please point me to webpages that illustrate the "fuji colors" by comparing photos of the the same subject shot one time with a good non-Fuji camera and another time with a good Fuji camera?

Thank You very much in advance.

1 upvote
Kokeen4231
By Kokeen4231 (Jan 8, 2013)

I wonder how this sensor can compete with 1" sensor found in the rx100.

4 upvotes
mcam
By mcam (Jan 8, 2013)

Wondering the same thing here. Wish there's a 1" sensor compact camera with lens like Fujifilm's X20 or Olympus's XZ-2.

4 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jan 8, 2013)

An f1.8 or f2 lens designed to cover a 1" sensor would likely be much bigger than the x20 or XZ-2 lenses. The Sony RX100 lens, that slows down to f4.9 at the long end is already pretty big, so a hypothetical f2-2.8 zoom designed to cover a 1" sensor would be enormous.

9 upvotes
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Jan 8, 2013)

RX100
- X 20
¯¯¯¯¯¯
= R 80 ...That about quantifies the difference in IQ.

Clearly what we have here poses no threat to Sony.

3 upvotes
panos_m
By panos_m (Jan 8, 2013)

@marike6. Not to mention the horrible distortion (when not software corrected) RX100 already has at 10mm.

4 upvotes
Ariston
By Ariston (Jan 8, 2013)

I wonder how the NEX-7 couldn't compete against the XP1.

0 upvotes
Kokeen4231
By Kokeen4231 (Jan 8, 2013)

@jimmy jang
Haha then X20-RX1 gives -R19. Means fuji better? JK.

1 upvote
Kokeen4231
By Kokeen4231 (Jan 8, 2013)

@Ariston
The fuji had a good sensor which gave good IQ. Other than speed and video wise, the Fuji won mainly. But the speed of XP1 really is a let down. No that the x20 and x100s are faster with good videos , hopefully the new gen of x cameras become known for them.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Jan 9, 2013)

"Not to mention the horrible distortion (when not software corrected) RX100 already has at 10mm." If you don't see software-corrected distortion on your X10 you are not processing RAW, certainly not on Adobe software. But not surprising as RAW processing from X10 is a major disappointment anyway because Fuji doesn't know how to let third parties process EXR.

Comment edited 20 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (Jan 8, 2013)

This is a rather exciting camera! A Mini X-trans 2/3" BSI PDAF sensor!! heck yea!!
If the AF is as fast as we should expect its going to be a killer camera!

3 upvotes
Kokeen4231
By Kokeen4231 (Jan 8, 2013)

Yeah haha. I was hoping for a faster lens though since other companies have started to push the limits.

1 upvote
budi0251
By budi0251 (Jan 8, 2013)

indeed, me too thinks this ought be a very good concoction from fuji, especially their APC-C X-Trans sensor perform so nicely without AA filter; even comparable to an FX sensor in terms of resolution resolving capabilities.

1 upvote
Martin Datzinger
By Martin Datzinger (Jan 8, 2013)

Even if the AF wasn't any quicker, it would be much better, since now with the overlay, you know where you're actually focussing on. X10's display doesn't count.

3 upvotes
Timmbits
By Timmbits (Jan 8, 2013)

Very nice update!
Glad to see there isn't just RX100 that has a larger than usual sensor in this category... yet, still, I wish there was some 1" competition to Sony.

0 upvotes
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Jan 8, 2013)

If you want the best possible IQ from a compact camera with a large sensor, check out the DP Merrills, they are are without equal. In fact anything digital shot short of MF and the D800 will look like crap in comparison to the Merrills.

0 upvotes
Dave Luttmann
By Dave Luttmann (Jan 8, 2013)

This is a Fuji preview...not Sigma

4 upvotes
unknown member
By (unknown member) (Jan 8, 2013)

The Sigma is great, until you up the ISO to a whopping 400, and then it falls to pieces.

7 upvotes
mgblack74
By mgblack74 (Jan 8, 2013)

Sigma is great, until you need a different focal length or needed to focus yesterday.

5 upvotes
Amateur Sony Shooter
By Amateur Sony Shooter (Jan 8, 2013)

Sigma is great until you run out power on your 3rd battery before mid day.

4 upvotes
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Jan 8, 2013)

I've seen identical shots taken at the same exposure by the Fuji X-PRO and the Merrill. The image quality of Fuji's best camera looked like a point and shoot in comparison.

1 upvote
Shamael
By Shamael (Jan 8, 2013)

Nothing can beat the DP-Merrils at 100 ISO, they do medium format quality shots. But, that's it, they can't do more, at 400 ISO they give up and you start crying. Then, as one said it before, they need you to carry a sack full of batteries. And, another camera for different focal length. So, carry 10 cameras when Sigma has finished it's game.

3 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Jan 10, 2013)

I agree the X20 sensor is too small but unless the X20 is the same price as a set of three Sigma cameras I don't really see the comparison.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 127