Previous news story    Next news story

Sony announces E-mount 20mm F2.8 pancake prime lens for NEX cameras

By dpreview staff on Jan 23, 2013 at 04:00 GMT
Buy on GearShop$348.00

Sony has announced the E 20mm F2.8 - a moderately wide-angle pancake prime lens for its NEX cameras. The moderately-fast E-mount pancake will offer a 30mm equivalent field of view and adds another compact lens option for NEX shooters. It will be available in April for around $350. Sony has also said it will offer its video-targeted 18-200mm OSS F3.5-6.3 power zoom lens as a standalone product. Previously only available bundled with the NEX-VG30 camcorder, it becomes the company's third E-mount 18-200mm superzoom and will cost around $1200.

Jump to:


Press Release:

Sony Expands Lens Lineup for α E-Mount Camera System with New Wide-Angle and Telephoto Models

New 20mm f/2.8 “pancake” lens and Video-friendly 18-200mm f/3.5 – f/6.3 “Power Zoom” lens extend creative possibilities

SAN DIEGO, Jan. 22, 2013 – Sony is expanding its popular E-mount camera system with the addition of two new lenses compatible with all α E-Mount cameras and semi-professional camcorders.

New 20mm F2.8 ‘pancake’ wide angle lens (model SEL20F28)

When mounted on any Sony α E-Mount camera, the sharp new SEL20F28 ”pancake” lens creates an exceptionally versatile, portable package ideal for a broad range of everyday shooting opportunities ranging from interiors to landscapes, street photography, casual snapshots and more.

The new lens features an ultra-slim design approximately 20mm from lens front to back, and with its wide angle of view (30mm on 35mm equivalent) and bright F2.8 aperture, it produces excellent contrast, resolution and clarity across the frame for both still image and full HD video shooting. 

New 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Powered Telephoto Zoom Lens (model SELP18200)

Originally offered only as a kit lens for the new NEX-VG30 camcorder introduced this past fall, the new SELP18200 powered telephoto zoom lens will now be available for purchase as a stand-alone lens. 

Designed for serious videographers, the high-quality lens offers a generous 11x magnification range and whisper-quiet power zoom mechanics, focusing and aperture operation. This allows for smooth cinematic transitions when adjusting zoom level or manual settings during shooting.  It features a comfortably positioned zoom lever that works with a switch on the lens barrel, allowing zoom speed to be selected in three different steps – from slow, beautiful shifts in perspective to dramatic crash-zoom effects.  Zoom can also be controlled directly from compatible NEX-VG900, NEX-VG30 and NEX-FS700 (requires firmware update) video cameras.

The new lens also has built-in Optical SteadyShot™, which cuts the effects of camera shake and minimizes camera blur while shooting handheld at slower shutter speeds.  Additionally, Active Mode further enhances stabilization at the wide end of the 11x zoom range ensuring smooth, stable footage even if the shooter is in motion. 

While the new SELP18200 lens is optimized for video, it’s also a flexible choice for shooting still photography – from expansive landscapes to high impact close-ups of wildlife or athletes – with Sony’s α E-Mount range of interchangeable lens still cameras.

Sony α E-mount lens family expansion

These new models expand the Sony E-mount family to 13 native E-mount lenses plus two converters, covering virtually any shooting situation for photographers and videographers alike.

Spanning ultra-wide angle, powerful telezoom, macro and fast, bright primes, the range includes premium optics by Sony and Carl Zeiss, and offers refined performance and easy handling throughout the line. 

Pricing and Availability

The new E 20mm F2.8 (SEL20F28) wide-angle prime lens will be available this April for about $350. 

The new E PZ18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS (SELP18200) motorized telezoom lens will be available this March for about $1200.

The Sony α family of cameras, camcorders, lenses and accessories can be purchased at Sony retail stores, online at www.store.sony.comand at all other authorized retailers throughout the Sony dealer network.

20mm F2.8 specifications

Principal specifications
Lens typePrime lens
Max Format sizeAPS-C / DX
Focal length20 mm
Lens mountSony E (NEX)
Aperture
Maximum apertureF2.8
Minimum apertureF22.0
Number of diaphragm blades7
Aperture notesCircular Aperture
Optics
Elements6
Groups6
Focus
Minimum focus0.20 m (7.87)
AutofocusYes
Motor typeStepper motor
Full time manualUnknown
Distance scaleNo
DoF scaleNo
Physical
Weight69 g (0.15 lb)
Diameter63 mm (2.48)
Length20 mm (0.79)
ColourBlack
Filter thread49 mm
Tripod collarNo
58
I own it
8
I want it
6
I had it
Discuss in the forums
Our favorite products. Free 2 day shipping.
Support this site, buy from dpreview GearShop.
Sony E 20mm F2.8

Comments

Total comments: 326
12
ianimal
By ianimal (Jan 23, 2013)

Yes a nice lens if you want to keep the system small.
Rumors says some Zeiss primes for NEX comes later this year, for
them who want something fast and expensive.

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting
1 upvote
io_bg
By io_bg (Jan 23, 2013)

Why fast has to be expensive?

1 upvote
iudex
By iudex (Jan 23, 2013)

Exactly. Faster does not necessarily mean expensive; look at Samsung pancakes, e.g. 30mm f2 costs cca. 200 euros.

1 upvote
AmaturFotografer
By AmaturFotografer (Jan 23, 2013)

Generally, faster lens cost more. Maybe Samsung sold their lenses below cost, or with very little profit to gain market share.

Do compare price of f1.8 and f1.4 lens. There's a significant difference. So generally, faster means pricier. Especially because it's Sony. Heh.

0 upvotes
io_bg
By io_bg (Jan 23, 2013)

There are many cheap f/1.8 primes. Sony have no excuses.

1 upvote
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

Which of those cheap f1.8 lenses are 30mm equiv on APS-C or have OS (like the 35 and 50 for NEX)?

Comment edited 13 minutes after posting
1 upvote
io_bg
By io_bg (Jan 23, 2013)

Canon's 22mm f/2 is an example. I hope Nikon will make a similar DX one too.

0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

The Canon is neither f1.8 (3.2 equiv.) nor 30mm equiv., 25% thicker, 30% heavier. But yeah, that's the closest one to qualify.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
zinedi
By zinedi (Jan 23, 2013)

Why this slooow expensive dummy again? Wouldn't it be better to make a true piece of glass for fair price? But Sony is obviously not capable - good optics is out of reach of their apprehension.

3 upvotes
AmaturFotografer
By AmaturFotografer (Jan 23, 2013)

I think 2.8 is quite fast for a pancake. It's a compromise of size, quality and price.

For a faster lens, the size has to be bigger. Want quality and don't mind spending big money, wait for the Zeiss. They are coming.

7 upvotes
zinedi
By zinedi (Jan 23, 2013)

Even if Zeiss makes good lens "for Sony", which I doubt, I never buy it, because there is no good PHOTOGRAPHIC body of Sony so that it would not be waste of money to put it on.

0 upvotes
ventur
By ventur (Jan 23, 2013)

yes, its better to invest in Canon's wonderfull mirrorless system that the only has 2 crappy lens and the only body its worst then a 3 year old nex body or the fabulous Nikon 1 series with their "gigantic" sensor!

have you haver seen a Nex-6?

1 upvote
wakaba
By wakaba (Jan 23, 2013)

It has less than 50% capabilites of a Nikkor Nikon 35mm f/1.8G DX AF-S Nikkor, is 50% more expensive and goes on a camera that cannot keep up with a 8 year old Nikon D50.

Who buys this crap?

2 upvotes
pixelatorcw
By pixelatorcw (Jan 23, 2013)

Funny comparison with the D50!
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/832|0/%28brand%29/Sony/%28appareil2%29/195|0/%28brand2%29/Nikon

But yes - the lens is too expensive and too slow.

3 upvotes
wlad
By wlad (Jan 23, 2013)

1. it's half the size
2. it can go on a camera that destroys any 3+ years old APS-C DSLR in terms of image quality
3. and this camera is still pocketable

9 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

Why are you comparing a 20mm pancake to a 35mm non pancake?

7 upvotes
wakaba
By wakaba (Jan 23, 2013)

1. At the cost of performance
2. No - its worse than a 8 year old Nikon DSLR.
3. At the cost of performance.

This is made by an 11 year old with an 8 year old D50 and a new Nikkor 35mm,1.8DX:

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/736965_265364480259228_1024741590_o.jpg

It is way beyond anything a Nex user will ever get because those cams are slow, have useless live view in bright light, really crappy lenses and battery is dead after less than 1h.

This cam is a marketing excercise of how to peddle a 10$ camera with a max. markup.

1 upvote
zxaar
By zxaar (Jan 23, 2013)

"This is made by an 11 year old with an 8 year old D50 and a new Nikkor 35mm,1.8DX:"------------------- I have seen much better things from 8 year old point and shoots. Your Nikon must be very bad camera by your logic.

5 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

8 years ago the D50 wasn't available yet and that low resolution picture shows nothing a 5R or 6 plus 35mm f1.8 can't do.

1 upvote
wakaba
By wakaba (Jan 23, 2013)

Zxaar+Troj - you guys beating on a small girl doing better photography than you ever could?

You know what they say about men with small cameras...

1 upvote
_sem_
By _sem_ (Jan 23, 2013)

Erhm, Nikon's 20mm prime is also F/2.8 but huge in comparison. Well it is full-frame but they didn't make any wide-angle prime for DX.

2 upvotes
hippo84
By hippo84 (Jan 23, 2013)

wakaba - Why not to compare NEX with Nikon 1? ))

0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

@ wakaba :
Try a reading comprehension class. I was talking about the camera capabilities.

1 upvote
zxaar
By zxaar (Jan 23, 2013)

"Zxaar+Troj - you guys beating on a small girl doing better photography than you ever could?" --------- been there and done it. This is why we know it is nothing special. You have no clue of photography and cameras in general. Show something that is not possible by sony nex if you really want to make point.

1 upvote
wakaba
By wakaba (Jan 23, 2013)

@troj:

What capabilities? Slow AF, slow click, crappy lenses, bright light and LV? No viewfinder? Comeon - this is closer to a Fisherprice toy than a serious cam, except pricing. I am fair and compare with a D50. Compare to a fresh D3200 (half the price) and we wouldn`t even be talking.

@sem: Step 10m back and your 35mm turns into a 20mm, most of the time...

@hippo: Why should I compare lesser with less? A 6 (correction) year old D50 still is better, in every respect, than a halfassed tiny-chip-cam from today. If we compare cost...

0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

A 6 has no viewfinder? The 5R can't add one?
Imaging resource measured the D50 AF already to be slower than the 5N, which didn't have PDAF yet. Prefocus shutterlag is even 5 times longer on the D50.

Ever tested the 19mm, 24mm, 30mm, 35mm and 50mm?
Try harder.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
wakaba
By wakaba (Jan 23, 2013)

EVF? No serious camera has that - it even crippled the top Sony DSLR to the point no professional would touch that contraption.

D50 marketed 6 years ago and yes it is faster, dependable, under though and real conditions than a Nex and pic quality is just better because of PVF, serious M,A, S modes and a choice of spectacularly good lenses.

Our D50 has been through 15000mls of bumpy Africa, icy north, humid asia, oceania, more than 30000clicks and still on its first battery. Now serves kids and backupcamera.

Sony-Lenses: if you are happy with measured lpm of 1-1400. Sony is your choice. I prefer around 2000 or more. S-L neither good nor priceworthy. Hell if even the Sony-DSLR lenses suck.

So, you made the wrong buying decision, good luck next time.

0 upvotes
Yinle
By Yinle (Jan 23, 2013)

Oops, the sensor in D3200 is Sony-manufactured. And your comparison doesn't really make sense.

Try comparing NEX-5 with Nikon 1. Nikon 1 is much pricier (at least in my region), but yet produced worse images.

And D50's sensor is no way beating any of NEX's sensors.

2 upvotes
wlad
By wlad (Jan 23, 2013)

wakaba = trolling sony hater, don't waste your time with him

4 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

Another baseless claim as several professionals are using the A99.
In fact, several professionals were already using NEX cameras for various tasks.
Basically most of your posts in here show ignorance, rather than experience with and knowledge of the systems you judge.
Not sure why anyone would boast about lpm figures when using a 6MP sensor. ;-)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
wakaba
By wakaba (Jan 23, 2013)

@Yinle:
My D600 has a Sony chip too. What they are able to fab for a customer like Nikon and what the Sony market team is able to come up is an altogether different story...

Packing more logic onto a smaller chip, great. Does it make a NEX a better camera than a 6 year old cam? Hell no, you are shooting with a relic..

Nex, N1? Comparing crap with crap? What`s the point again?

@wlad:
Sony hater? Couldn`t care less.

@troj.
Not the profs I work with. Workflow does not permit hit and miss assignments so its highend Nikon, some use Canon and primes from 12 to 180mm.
No Sonys - darkish output, garish colors, no decent lenses, not professional quality by a wide margin. You should see what people come up with that use EVF in bright light conditions. Gross.

Do the math and see for yourself what high lpm lenses do on a 6mp chip and raw output. You will be surprised.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

"Do the math and see for yourself what high lpm lenses do on a 6mp chip and raw output. You will be surprised"

This sums up your understanding of system resolutions, or lack of.

The rest of your post adds more ignorance.

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
digifan
By digifan (Jan 23, 2013)

@wakaba, what do they say about men with small camera's?
I think they (men with small camera's) DON'T have an inferiority complex, unlike you.

2 upvotes
darkref
By darkref (Jan 23, 2013)

Nex sensors are on par or better to most other cameras. You can look at studio comparison tool, or dxo mark. That's why people but it. Because smart people can use smart sensors to make great photos. Smart people also do not buy age old cameras with terrible sensors in comparison. The lens capabilities of the any mirror less camera completely dwarfs any SLR.

You would have to be clinically insane to buy an old SLR over a new mirrorless camera.

2 upvotes
_sem_
By _sem_ (Jan 23, 2013)

@wakama
> @sem: Step 10m back and your 35mm turns into a 20mm, most of the time...
Was this supposed to be funny? ;)

2 upvotes
gl2k
By gl2k (Jan 23, 2013)

Holy Moly. f2.8 prime! Obviously according to Sony f2.8 is the new f1.8 (borrowing from "Sex in the City").

4 upvotes
Benarm
By Benarm (Jan 23, 2013)

Another 18-200? Why? Something like 16-80/F3.5-4.5 would be so much better for the NEX line (yes, the NEX version of SAL-1680Z).

2 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Jan 23, 2013)

The 18-200 seems to be targeted for video.

3 upvotes
darkref
By darkref (Jan 23, 2013)

There is a high quality zoom on the way.

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (Jan 23, 2013)

Long overdue, questions to answer... What is the max magnification? What will the optical performance be like? How fast does it focus?

If its 1:4 or better in magnification- Good
If the optical performance is "primelike"- Good
If it focuses fast and quiet- Good

If not...

-Carl

1 upvote
The Lotus Eater
By The Lotus Eater (Jan 23, 2013)

Magnification is 0.12x

2 upvotes
Anfernee Cheang
By Anfernee Cheang (Jan 23, 2013)

I don't mind if you make it 50% thicker but with F2.0 aperture Sony. We need more fast lenses. The 35/1.8 and the upcoming 85/1.8 are definitely better idea.

And also we need more premium lenses like 16-50/2.8 and 50-150/2.8. I am still in the transition from single Alpha body to double E bodies, with the issue that my 16-50/2.8 SSM and 70300G do not have any nice replacement... That's really a painful long wait.

11 upvotes
hippo84
By hippo84 (Jan 23, 2013)

Is it so necessary to have large aperture on wide-angle lens? Taking into account, that it will be bigger and cost more...

5 upvotes
starwolfy
By starwolfy (Jan 23, 2013)

Funny how people are getting crazier and crazier for fast lenses as time goes by.

F2.8 for a 20mm is quite bright already. Moreover with the good high Iso's we can find in today's cameras I am wondering why anyone would need a faster wide lens ?

It's not like you are looking for bokeh when you put a 20mm lens on your body.

I'm amazed that for most people a picture is good only when there is creamy cheesy bokeh everywhere. This must come from the fact that it looks "pro" to beginners.

12 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Jan 23, 2013)

This is for all those people who have been asking Sony for so long tp produce small pancake primes for the NEX.

Pancake designs are generally not suitable for for faster apertures. Zeiss are bringing out more premium primes and Sony will inevitably produce more zoom lenses.

1 upvote
forpetessake
By forpetessake (Jan 23, 2013)

Especially, taking into account that one can take a 24-70 f/2.8 lens, add Metabones adapter and get 16-50 f/2.0 lens the same size as Sony's 16-50/2.8. All that talk about too large, too heavy, too expensive is a complete hogwash, not any larger, nor heavier, nor more expensive to manufacture than equivalent FF lenses.

3 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Jan 23, 2013)

@ forpete:
Umm, have you compared the 24-70 and 16-50 in size lately? Even without the adapter, the former is much larger...and much much heavier.

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
underxposed59
By underxposed59 (Jan 23, 2013)

No free lunch

0 upvotes
Stanny1
By Stanny1 (Jan 23, 2013)

As a NEX-3 owner and real estate photographer using the current 16mm with .75 adapter (18mm), I was hoping for a 10-20mm zoom. 20mm (really 30mm) is way too big for interior work.

0 upvotes
Nikolai Vassiliev
By Nikolai Vassiliev (Jan 23, 2013)

4/10-18mm is already there.

11 upvotes
aap292
By aap292 (Jan 23, 2013)

Would the converter work on this new pancake?

1 upvote
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jan 23, 2013)

I hope the image quality is good. If it is, Sony, come out with a set of prime/pancakes and watch your Nex system find new meaning.

1 upvote
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Jan 23, 2013)

20mm pancake = Instabuy.

2 upvotes
Trollshavethebestcandy
By Trollshavethebestcandy (Jan 23, 2013)

Nice and thin
Will the image quality justify the price?

1 upvote
RStyga
By RStyga (Jan 23, 2013)

"Sony" branding of photo gear is counter-intuitive; it's something like branding a car "Hoover" or "Westinghouse". They could lose it like Panasonic did in their Lumix camera branding; it's for the better. After all it is a product.

0 upvotes
pureaxis
By pureaxis (Jan 23, 2013)

I don't see how Lumix is any different than NEX or Alpha brandings

12 upvotes
John Driggers
By John Driggers (Jan 23, 2013)

Duoh....That's his point--brand the lens as NEX, not as Sony. So yeah, Lumix is not the same as Sony.

1 upvote
The Lotus Eater
By The Lotus Eater (Jan 23, 2013)

I take it you missed that Sony has been producing cameras for years and is a huge player in the pro video market. The whole world knows that Sony has a wide portfolio of high quality electronics.

Hoover make vacuum cleaners - that's all I know about that company.

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (Jan 23, 2013)

"I take it you missed that Sony has been producing cameras for years"

You mean since 2006, where it inherited Konica-Minolta's camera division. That's hardly history comparable to camera manufacturers like Canon, Nikon, Olympus, or Pentax. Sony makes TVs, audio systems, etc. A bit of everything in electronics and quite successfully (not financially, as the company has been in serious $ trouble, by the way).

To the public, especially photographers, Sony is a consumer electronics giant not a camera maker. It does make great sensors, granted. But that's not all in camera making. And, unless you're a happy now-discovering-photography newbie, you might not automatically grow an immediate attraction to the idea of carrying an average-looking (subjective, granted) piece of plastic with the "SONY" plastered on its forehead. Personally, it's a negative, very not-inspiring. I might end up buying one but still not happy with the branding. Just a thought...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
socode
By socode (Jan 24, 2013)

To the general public, Leica is probably associated with the Beckhams rather than HCB. The Sony Mavica cameras were out in the 1980s, and had Sony built up a quality reputation in niche areas like broadcast (although they've also done quite a bit to destroy their reputation over the years).

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (Jan 24, 2013)

They're a smart bunch; just need to rename their camera division. It's grown enough to justify it. Any good name will do, just not "Cybershot"!!

0 upvotes
pureaxis
By pureaxis (Jan 23, 2013)

Sony E-mount is maturing rapidly, can't wait for the premium zoom coming later this year. Although Sony really need a fast telezoom like a 50-150mm f/2.8, instead of slow travel zooms.

6 upvotes
AmaturFotografer
By AmaturFotografer (Jan 23, 2013)

Fast means large, defeating the purpose of a small and compact mirrorless.

2 upvotes
Absolutic
By Absolutic (Jan 23, 2013)

I guess it is smaller than Sigma 19/2.8 ... at three times the price (Sigma 19+30 are offered at $199 both on B&H site)

1 upvote
viking79
By viking79 (Jan 23, 2013)

$350 for an f/2.8 pancake with no OSS? Sony sure knows how to market lenses. Canon 22mm f/2 is a full stop larger aperture and $100 less :) I imagine the Sony will sell better though.

It looks good though, would look nice on a NEX 6.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
5 upvotes
thx1138
By thx1138 (Jan 23, 2013)

Should have been f/2 for that price. Canon's FF 40 f/2.8 is only $150 and IQ is excellent. Hard to see why this worth over 2x the money other than it's a Sony, even if IQ is good.

2 upvotes
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Jan 23, 2013)

Wait, you want it to be a pancake AND have OSS?

Why stop there? It should also be F/1.2 and make cappucinos.

10 upvotes
viking79
By viking79 (Jan 23, 2013)

I never wanted OSS, my point was it costs more than the 50mm f/1.8 OSS. For a 20mm f/2.8 pancake the price is insane. It should be a lot cheaper than the 50mm. As I said, the Canon EOS M 22mm f/2 pancake is a full stop larger aperture (typically doubles the price) and is $100 cheaper.

Eric

Comment edited 41 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
NZ Scott
By NZ Scott (Jan 23, 2013)

A good point about prices. I shoot Micro Four Thirds and have similar grumbles about the price of primes with that system. While some are expensive but optically good enough to justify their prices ($800 75/1.8, $400 20/1.7, $350 45/1.8, $550 25/1.4, $400 60/2.8 Macro), some are optically average and way too expensive ($500 17/1.8, $800 12/2.0). I don't think these prices can be justified when you can buy a 50/1.8 for full-frame for around $100 and 50/1.4 for $400, even if they are optically inferior to M43 primes.

0 upvotes
Jun2
By Jun2 (Jan 23, 2013)

The price will not be a problem. Just wait, this thing will be significantly cheaper. They are giving away 16mm 2.8 with some camera kit. or I bought it for $117 for 16mm 2.8 (listed as $249).

2 upvotes
hippo84
By hippo84 (Jan 23, 2013)

Nice looking pancake. Well done Sony )

7 upvotes
NomadMark
By NomadMark (Jan 23, 2013)

I wouldn't say well done until you can see the pictures it will make. 16mm pancake is junk on the NEX7. But, it looks cool ;)

0 upvotes
hippo84
By hippo84 (Jan 23, 2013)

16/2.8 is much cheeper. Hope higher cost means higher quality ))

3 upvotes
ryansholl
By ryansholl (Jan 23, 2013)

I will be looking forward to that 20.

1 upvote
NomadMark
By NomadMark (Jan 23, 2013)

I like the look of the 20! Hope it's more comparable in IQ to the Sigma 19mm, than the current Sony 16mm pancake.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Total comments: 326
12