Sony unleashes Cyber-shot RX100 II with BSI CMOS sensor

Techradar comparisons have always been a joke. Non normalized and non controlled tests, resulting in spikes and misleading results all over the place. Hence why their results rarely make sense and are usually contradicted by more reputable hand repeatable tests (DXO et al.).

Don't stare yourself blind at the charts and look at the ISO 3200 sample: http://mos.techradar.com/art/cameras/Sony/RX100_II/sample%20images/_DSC0177.JPG

Wow! I can even read the small text on the plaque. They wouldn't be able to even generate this JPEG if the source RAW was of poor quality. I'm sold. This is crazy good in such a small body. I'm thinking of combining this one with my Fuji X100, sell DSLR gear, and call it a day.

... and stabilization. And WiFi. And tilting screen. And flash of decent power. And 10 fps. And 60 fps video with stereo sound. And sweeping panorama, handheld HDR and stuff like that.

I need high ISO in a pocket camera much more often than in a systems camera, but this is just my opinion, of course.

I use systesm camera when I know that I want to make some photographs and usually I do so when there is (good) light. My pocket camera is mostly for keeping memories and so good light is not always available...

@ Cephalotus - Great than the mk II is the better camera for you
@ BJ - There are problems associated with mounting the circuitry that increase crosstalk, whereby signals on different lines interfere with each other, this can cause pixels to bleed into each other. You can check the Imagng-Resource Comparometer and see the differences between mkI and mkII in terms of pixel bleeding at low ISO. The color charts, the red patch, the high contrast regions and the regions with some CA all show stronger pixel bleeding with the mkII than the mkI and this is not the more conservative jpg engine, it is line interference as I see it.
Also BSI sensors are mechanically much weaker due to the wafer thinning, and a large BSI sensor is even more prone to accidental shock-introduced breakage.

Facts without RAW comparisons are opinions or guesses.

@TrojMacReady - Yes, lets wait and see the raw comparison of the two rx100 cams at DxO labs. In the mean time here are some facts based on RAW analysis and unfortunatelly I believe I was right: http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/compact-cameras/sony-rx100-ii-1160503/review/5#articleContent

I'm sure, it would be possible to implement a high-end EVF like that of a NEX6 Camera! And look at the street price of a NEX6, the viewfinder cannot be that expensive!

@jennyrae
Are you being ignorant on purpose?

New and improved BSI 1" sensor. Hot shoe, Articulated LCD and it still fits in your pocket.

Please enlighten us, what underwhelmed you?

That humble intern has a more hopeful future than someone who picks dull language. Would a headline grab your attention if it says "Sony RX100 II: rewarmed RX100"? Or "Sony Drags Another Camera to Market"?

Agree with Paul G. To 'unleash' a warmed up model is a bit over optimistic.

There are only so many ways you can say "announced" :)

I think it's a very reasonable metaphor.

Sony has had this camera leashed up in its lab for some time and it's been champing at the bit to escape, desperately waiting to bound into your hands, letting you unleash photographic fury!

Don't listen to him, Jeff!

@Jeff.. then why not just say "announced"?

True, but a 40% increase in sensitivity equals less than half a stop - better yes and a worthwhile change, but it won't produce significantly better IQ for 98% of the time. Personally I hardly ever go over 400 ISO and the old model is perfectly good for 1600 ISO anyway.

With the wide angle fixed lens of the GR stabilization wasn't essential (though it wouldn't have hurt). It's a nice camera, but in a very different category. The Sony clearly offers more features, but the GR appears to be a very pleasant camera to use, with nice controls and menus and very nice iq. But I'd rather have the Sony for most uses.

Also, the 3N doesn't support 1080p60 video recording, only the substantially inferior 1080i60.

It doesn't have Wi-Fi / NFC either.

Unless a full-grown marsupial, how do you fit a NEX-3N in a pocket? If it entails buying a "pancake" lens, there goes the supposed price difference.

Even with a pancake lens, any mirrorless model will still be closer to something like the LX7 than the RX100... e.g. it ain't going into any trouser pocket.

Canon S110? But only from the outside. Performance, this little buddy smokes it hands down.

Why wouldn't there be space for something above the S110/P330? Those cameras come in at $350-400... There's plenty of space, the RX100 just proved it last year. Whether Canon/Nikon are willing to try something different and sacrifice sales of some of their other product lines is another story.

I certainly wouldn't expect it from Canon, these days they move at a glacial pace... Panasonic just introduced the LF1 which sits between those other two and the RX100, so probably not them either. Maybe Olympus or Samsung? /shrug Maybe Panasonic will take the LX line to a new level at some point, tho that's in a different size class.

The do not compete at all; people searching for a decent universal compact would not look at fixed-focal-length comapct with limited usability. And the DOF control is also not an argument in favour of the GR, since f2,8 at wide-angle (28mm eq). means big DOF (eq. f4,2), not really different from the RX100 (eq. f4,8).

"much larger sensor"

with the advantages killed by much slower lens...

" and more control. "

Not really. Hint: this ring around the lens of RX100 - it's a second dial.

Difficult? Sure... But it's not like Sony has cornered the market on brilliant engineers or something. More than likely it's a combination of them catching everyone off guard and a product like the RX100 taking more than a year to get off the ground from scratch, between engineering, marketing, the bean counters approving it to begin with, etc.

Plus a lot of other companies wouldn't be as willing to cannibalize some of their other product lines with something like the RX100 (which eats into your own CSC/ILC sales etc)... Sony probably deserves just as much credit for trying out different things just to see how the market receives them as for actually designing some of their innovations like the RX100, SLT, etc (I own neither btw).

Exactly, the price of RX100 almost didn´t move, apparently Sony doesn´t need to discount it because of good sales.

Or enough battery life, or both.

there was enough space for NFC and WIFIi chips though, i would have prefered a GPS instead.

Wifi and NFC are probably a shared chip solution, and NFC takes less power than either of the other two (it's really just used to facilitate wifi pairing AFAIK)... It seems Wifi in general might be a more popular feature right now, I imagine some sorta market study lead to that thinking since everyone else seems to be following the same path with their compacts.

I can kind of see the logic, since having Wifi means you can use a smartphone to sync up GPS metadata so you can in essence sorta get both features... Also, Sony's past GPS implementations on the HX line were kinda poor as far as idle/sleep and battery use. Sure you can turn it off if you're not gonna use it for a few weeks but it's one more thing to remember.

My old Sony compact was always out of battery if I left it some too long because apparently the GPS never gives up and shuts off if it fails to acquire a lock or sees it hasn't been used in a while (unlike Panasonic's TZ line, from what I've read). Hopefully they address that by the time GPS makes it to the RX line.

GPS takes too long to calibrate, or won't at all in some locations. You end up with erroneous readings and wear down the battery. Better to be sober and remember where you went on that vacation. A GPS reading won't make a picture any more memorable or offset other unworthiness.

log2(1.4) = 0.485 stops. Close enough I think :-)

We should expect improvements to a mature technology to be incremental. This isn't just half a stop, it's _another_ half a stop improvement over an already excellent sensor.

I'm skeptical that even half a stop will be confirmed by independent tests. Manufacturers almost invariably over-claim in these things, with the excuse that they're also taking into account better jpeg processing and are basing the claim on a subjective evaluation of final results. Sensors these days are so close to the theoretical limit for signal to noise ratio in low light that half a stop improvement would be very impressive.

Not a direct comparison. One has a large sensor while the other has much smaller sensor in comparison while keeping the same body size. The RX100 MK I is still available though for those who want to save a few bucks.

Sam, I think you are thinking of Panasonic instead. Sony has it's quirks but have always been very good at getting product out shortly after announcement.

Carl

that was because of the floods

The sensor would fit... What wouldn't fit is any kind of lens appropriately sized for said sensor, they go hand in hand. There's a reason the RX100 has a short lens that's slow at the wide end, that's about the best you can hope for given the size/space limitations. If you bump the sensor size further then you either give up size or you get to the point where you end with a fixed prime lens and a niche camera (RX1, Coolpix A, etc).

Hell, I'm impressed they added as much as they did without increasing the size to XZ-2/LX7 proportions... But most of it was work done on the electronics I'd guess, and it did come with a price hike, so we probably won't even see significant discounts on the outgoing model. Had the price stayed the same I might be tempted but even $650 was kinda pushing it for a compact...

Hopefully somebody else starts building a 1" sensor compact or Sony's gonna keep charging whatever the heck they want for it for the foreseeable future... I think Panasonic already showed most of their hand for this year tho (LF1 is even safer now, slotted between this and the S110), and I doubt the S110 follow up will be any kind of revelation.

That implies increased size - and most likely a substantial one. Would you accept that ?

I would. Call it the RX10. Put a grip on it and a built in evf... sell it tween the price of the RX100 and RX1.

:)

Then go, buy Nikon V2 with bunch of excellent fast primes and you're all set !

"Then go, buy Nikon V2 with bunch of excellent fast primes and you're all set !"

Exactly once you lose the size advantage, then you can always buy Nikon 1 or even better yet Nex-6

The point of RX100 is that it is a pocket camera. Put faster lens and it won't be a pocket camera anymore but instead it would be competing against G1X or Nex-6. And that was never the aim of Rx100. It was foremost a pocket camera.

This was the point that cgarrard never comprehended last year either and proclaimed RX100 to be a failure (famously wrong prediction)

@The V2 offer ...
Even better Buy the J1 with a 10-30 as a start!
" ... suggested retail price of $899.95 ..." and now you can get it for €200!
And most shops still have it in store!

Why would you ever hesitate ...?

Or the V1 with EVF for 220 €! Add a fast 18,5mm f1,8 lens for 180€ and you have a nice two-lens combo for only 400€. However this does not change the abovesaid: the NX100 is much much smaller, size-wise in the league of Canon S110.

"I would. Call it the RX10. Put a grip on it and a built in evf... sell it tween the price of the RX100 and RX1."

I am very surprised that a year passed since RX100 and they haven't made a bridge camera based on the tech. It would be epic and eliminate that nonsense of DSLRs with kit 18-55 zooms glued to them (and Panasonic G with 14-42 only).

Nikon V2 is not it, the 10-30 f/3.5-f/5.6 lens is not even close to f/1.8-4.9 lens of pocket RX100, let alone what could have been possible in bridge format (something like 22-220eq f/2-f/4).

The LX7: F/1.2 at the wide end, F/2.8 at the long. Cheaper than the RX100. Extensive manual controls. ND filter. 120fps HD video. Time lapse too.