Just Posted: Pentax K-5 II / K-5 IIS Review: Digital Photography Review

@ Heie2 or anybody else passionate about Pentax

I very much agree and share your passion for the Pentax Camera Body, and I might add and you might have meant it: The brilliant User Interface / Firmware.

Would you be interested to work together on writing a very different kind of camera review ? It is not about Megapixel, resolution or any of that stuff. It is about how the Pentax camera inspires joy in photography. How it increase quality of your output, not in megapixels, but in such ineffable qualities as composition and creativity, which only can be measured indirectly, as in how many people actually like your pictures. ( They never care megapixel and RAW sharpness, they always care what you shoot and how ).

The K30 and K5 have a magic quality which seems to escape traditional reviews. I am passionate about capturing this quality and make it visible to others. Would you be interested in working together ?

1 upvote

Here is why I am so passionate about it:

I needed to update my trusted *ist DS. By chance I started shooting with my Pentax lenses on a Sony NEX-5 and LCD viewfinder. I fell in love with it. So next thing I checked reviews on Pentax Model in terms of Live View. They all came out bad. Live View not responsive, PDAF too slow, focus peaking is there but not well. Sony cameras came out great in Live View. In the end I bought a K-30 over NEX-6 in a 51:49 decision. After I started using my K-30 I got very, very angry. The K-30 is simply brilliant. Now that I have shot NEX-5 and K-30 side by side for a month my decision is 90:10 of K-30 over NEX-6.

The K-30 has a quality of customization ability to suit my shooting style which makes a HUGE difference. This quality was amiss in any of the reviews I have ever read. And live view is not bad at all, and I found focus peaking @ f/2 is useless anyways ( also on the Sony ). Instead Pentax has different yet important Live View features.

1 upvote

I feel very strongly that for people who like shooting creatively, the Pentax System has a quality to help the creative process, which is standing out compared to other camera systems. I like to find a way to capture this quality and make it transparent to fellow photographers. I am curious to know if anybody would like to join this project ?

1) I have a K-30, maybe somebody can add the K5 part?

2) How about if I write the Article here in dpReview and anything missing or not agreeable can be posted as comment and I re-write the Article accordingly ?

Any interest in such Article at all ? Let me know.

1 upvote

I admire your passion for Pentax HubertChen! I look forward to reading anything you write about the K5. I own a Pentax K-R from a couple years back that I still love! Right now, I am shooting with the K-01 which is such an underrated and awesome brick of a camera!!! Lots of fun. I want to purchase either a K-5IIs in the coming days or I might go a whole other way and buy a Pentax Q with all the lenses and just get back to having fun with photography. All this caring about pixels counts and minor differences in this and that is bogging me down. Again, I look forward to seeing what you might put out there, especially about the K-5. Thanks!

2 upvotes

Dear Ron,

Thanks for your comment. In your case you want to strongly consider the K-30 and not the K-5! All the K-01 goodness and fun of Live View enhancements are present in the K-30, but not present in the K5. Plus all the K-5 User Interface greatness is present in the K-30. In short K-30 is the combination of the best features of K-01 + K5.

If you enjoyed the K-01, you will be in for a treat with the K-30 and its Dual Dials married with TAV Mode. The grip will also add to your comfort.

I will be writing about the K-30 , as this is the camera I have. I am looking for somebody to write about the difference to the K5.

Once my first draft is out, I will announce it here. But it could be a month or two. I first want to really put the camera through its paces before writing about it.

Quick question: Did you checked the HDMI output quality of the K01 ? Is it true 1080p ? I have the Sony NEX-5. It outputs 1080p signal, but the image is so soft, it can be no more than 480p. How is K01?

Comment edited 11 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

@HubertChen.

I've recently purchased a K01 with the 40mm DA XS pancake lens. The purchase came after 3 years of shooting with my beloved K200D, which now has over 35,000 actuations. I have used it in snow, sleet, and rain.
The k200D was AHEAD of its time, and therefore Pentax literally dropped the ball on the camera and had to discontinue it. I will not part with this 5 year old camera because I have compared the images from k01 with the k200d and although I noticed some improvement in detail, most importantly High ISO noise control, the overall difference is minimal.

I applaud Pentax for majorly updating the K200D, because this is essentially what the k30 is, minus the top LCD screen. :)

But, why did I buy a K01? Simply put, you can not get a body + pancake lens combo for $339 :-)
This camera has a lot of quirks, and it definitely was not worth it's original price of $749.
-One does not have full manual control with M42 lens
-Sound gain level is too prominent when recording.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

1 upvote

-It does not record +30Mbps (some blocky artifacts + jello effects)
-Digital SR crops sensor during recording
-Can not output true HD on monitor, one can only use VGA connection to output live recording to monitor.

Granted, all the negatives are only on video mode which can easily be solved with minor tweaks and cheap DIY hacks.
The K01 excels in stills, there have actually been some comparison between the K5 and k01, which most members in pentax forum speculating the K01 images look "sharper" because it has a much thinner anti aliasing than the k5.

1 upvote

Dear mbpm

Thank you so much for answering my question if the K01 would output true 1080p live. If it would have, we would have bought a few to use them in IQC in our production line. The K-30 also only can output live VGA.

I was flirting with the idea of buying the K01 for some time, but then the K-30 body dropped to < 500 USD and this is the way I went. I do not regret it as the Dual Dial is what I use for every shot. You have a point about the price. I will think about it if this is the camera for my son. He just inherited the *istDS and is quite jealous about the LCD viewfinder / live view workflow.

I think Pentax made a mistake not to bundle this camera with a nicely engineered low profile LCD viewfinder with diopter adjustment. This is really transforming shooting experience. As for the Jello Artifacts, either pan slower or try Adobe After Effects. It has claimed to remove Jellow. For myself slower panning is doing the trick.

0 upvotes

Damning with faint praise and 9 months too late!

3 upvotes

Thanks a lot for the review (finally!). But it still isn´t visible on the camera review page (the Oly E-PM2 is still displayed first...)

0 upvotes

An awesome review of an awesome camera, even if the market is now flooded with new ones (D600, D5200, D7100, 6D) the K5II/s is a relevant camera and is heads above shoulders even if a comprehensive review came so many months after the release.

8 upvotes

Absolutely agree with the first part of your comment. That the CaNikons got reviewed just weeks after release and the K5 II nine months after is inexcusable. I hope DPR got the message.

6 upvotes

Check this. Pentax now offer an enthusiast Dslr K-30 for the price of an entry level and a semi pro k5II for the price of an enthusiast dslr. Look that Canikon.

4 upvotes

Looks like the K5 IIs makes a generally crisper and clearer photo. Too bad my X-E1 gives me a moire-free view of the resolution test chart. Perhaps the limits of bayer CFA technology have been reached.

1 upvote

Why is that too bad? Would you prefer your X-E1 produce more moire?

6 upvotes

I can't believe Pentax might have produced a camera worse than the last. This circumstance is rather strange in my opinion. But all this makes me think that I will stay for a long time a Pentax customer. Regards. Erino.

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Dear drum69,

I am so sorry, I can not follow your logic. Would you mind to elaborate ?

2 upvotes

I think he is going by the K-5 83% vs K-5II 80% DPR score.

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Inconsistent Pros List in conclusions of K5 and D7100

The following features are listed as Pros in 7100 and not in K5, but should have been listed there as well:
* Effective auto white balance in a variety of lighting conditions (*1)
* In-camera raw processing (*1)
* Manual audio recording levels (*1)
* 3.5 mm Stereo mic and headphone inputs
* Ability to output uncompressed HD video to an external recorder (*1)

(*1) marked features I am not 100 % sure, someone who actually has a K5 would need to confirm. The auto white balance on my K30 sure has been impressive. It has manual audio levels, albeit with no VU meter. If the 7100 has a VU meter, than it is fair to list this one on 7100 and not on K5. ...

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

I also suggest two more cool feature to be listed on Pros:
* If you take an important shot in JPEG mode, you still can save it as RAW as well as long as it is in buffer memory
* Pentax unique TAV mode. You can set Shutter, Aperture, ISO auto range and exposure compensation. All in direct access. (*2)

I understand that both reviews have been made by different reviewers. But since it is the goal of dpReview to help its readers to make a decision which camera to buy when comparing camera reviews, everybody involved would benefit if the conclusion pages of competing models is written with a higher degree of consistency.

(*2) This is the only mode I use on any photographic situation. It is extremely fast to use and covers any contingency in creative exposure. Having only one mode make responding that much faster, as you no longer need to think which mode to choose to express what you had in mind. Instead you just adjust Tv / Av / +/- EV & ISO directly.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

Nikon Auto ISO in manual mode and the front and rear dials do the same thing as TAV.

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Dear sandy b
Thank you very much for your comment.

Let me know if the 7100 can do all the following ?
1) Can you do exposure compensation in Auto ISO Manual Mode ?

2) Can you program the lower ISO Limit and Upper ISO Limit for Auto ISO Range when being in manual mode ?

3) Can you switch back and forth between Auto ISO and fixed ISO in manual mode while retaining the set Shutter Speed, Aperture Speed and Exposure compensation ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

2 upvotes

1 yes
2 yes, plus it takes into account the FL of the lens on the camera
3 I don't know

1 upvote

Dear Sandy,

Thanks your reply.

In such case I would suggest to list it as plus in both cameras. And maybe somebody can come up with a logical name for this new exposure mode. Makes no sense to list each vendors unique name for the same thing in a Pros list that shall be written for the intent to be easy to compare between camera models.

@2) Considering the focal length automatic automatically in exposure is very interesting. I am confused why to modify ISO according to focal length. Would it not make more sense to consider Shutter Speed ?

0 upvotes

I'm surprised by the low comparative scores the K5 received compared to the Nikon D7100 in certain areas. The "performance" score is particularly misleading as the D7100 can only shoot 5 or 6 RAWs, while the K5ii (like its predecessor) can fire 21. (I usually get 23 RAWs).

10 upvotes

the K-5's are not firmware limited because pentax has to sell more expensive models. That is a great advantage.

3 upvotes

Neither are Nikons, limitation is in amount of RAM memory avaliable in cheaper vs amount of RAM in expensive cameras. Firmware has nothing to do with it in Nikons case.

0 upvotes

Let's move on people!

0 upvotes

Move on to what? Speculating whether the K-3 will emerge, and if/when it does, how long before it's reviewed?

Or should we just move on to CaNikon articles?

3 upvotes

Asking the dpReview community to be nice:

I was very sad that for a long time I have not really seen a dpreview staff participate in discussions in comments. Now one reviewer did. And what happened to him?

* He is greeted with cynicism
* It is suggested he is part of a conspiracy against Pentax
* Bad intentions are suggested in many occasions

No surprise dpReview staff was not really present in comments and maybe after today will not be again.

I am not asking you to agree. I am asking you to write politely and accurately when you disagree. Always believe the Author has good intention and never suggest otherwise. If you believe you found a mistake or misjudgment by the Author, point it out and provide fact or reasoning why this shall be a mistake / misjudgment.

Following these rules will turn this place to be much more pleasurable and will attract more competent and more knowledgeable posters too. So you will be rewarded with more information in comments and more joy reading them

8 upvotes

Thanks Shawn! Found a couple. Seems like chroma noise is kept quite well in control, but micro details seem to vanish at the same time.

0 upvotes

Hey "Father",
Why don't you take your camera and go out to get some pics ? .. I think your brain must need some oxygen now .. IMHO DP staff are mature enough to deal with their own defence ..

1 upvote

Mr Hubert, you are missing the point here: no one is angry at DPR or calling them bad names, they are not some kind of a bad regime or such. The criticism is addressed to them in order for them to try doing their namesake job.
Their namesake job is DPR, not "Canon and Nikon Timely Reviews, Others .. Who Cares". Maybe they don't realise that by such a treatment of smaller brands they destroy that necessary flair for uniqueness and innovation in photography we all benefit from.
Your comment does not help it; you flatter their current negligence — in lack of a better word — by clapping them for *any* kind of review — even if it's 9 months too late, for a brand they (with commitment showed so far) couldn't care less about.
Say, Nikon D7100 review came out a few weeks after the announcement. K5II(s) review came out 9 months later. If you think that's OK, that such people do their job correctly, that the conclusions of too late reviews are okay and not anachronistic, then we disagree.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

10 upvotes

Dear Zvonimir,

Thank you very much for your reply. I agree with you 100 %! I like to be specific:
* It is bad for all of us that the K-5 review is 9 month late ( bad for dpreview themselves, bad for customer, bad for Pentax )
* This much delayed review is hurting Pentax in sales! In return this is hurting the photography community that a company delivering excellent value cameras with outstanding user interface is not receiving the sales they probably need and there is a risk they might close one day because of it and the community will loose one of the most innovative and photographic centric vendors

In fact I wrote about this earlier, but there are many comments here. I will post my earlier writings on responsibility of reviewer for your reference.

My comment about being nice was related towards those many comments which were very cynic in style and which were suggesting malicious intent. I objected the tone and treatment. I did not objected the content.

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My comment address earlier @ Shawn / dpreview about responsibility of reviewers:

Please consider the following as a kind request to open your mind and rethink your position on responsibility of reviews.

Here is my background. I was responsible for marketing and sales of branded products. Which brand is not relevant, but suffice to say we have been the market leader for a certain product category in central Europe. For the duration of this product line sales volume per month was directly proportional to review results in the major publications. To be more clear: Sales success was not proportional to quality and competitive fitness of our product, but was proportional to test review score. E.g. Once we introduce a new much better product and sales were bad, but the older and not as good product sold better. After the ( 9 month delayed ) review came out and the newer product scored in the new review, sales of the new product exploded and the old one finally collapsed ...

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Can we not be adults and identify by name? You mean (mostly) me. The inability to candidly call out DPR for its inability to perform a timely (and to a much worse degree) accurate review is a shame and is frankly entirely warranted. Mr. Barnett's inability to admit fault (both on his behalf and on that of DPR, but moreso on himself as he is the author of this review) is what is most concerning. Mr. Chen, I appreciate your enthusiasm towards your K-30, and I concur that it is a phenomenal marvel and will argue tirelessly that it is by far the best value for the money in the photographic world today for stills photography. That notwithstanding, your ambivalence to the inability (or neglect?) of Digital Photography Review to fulfill its very own namesake detracts from the issue at hand: holding DPR accountable for inacurrate and untimely publications. And then refusing to admit fault once questioned. Enjoy your fantastic K-30, but please stop disillusioning DPR that they are "succeeding."

1 upvote

This is continuation of my previous post above.

... I think the conclusion of this experience is clear:

Delaying a great review result for 9 month does hurts the manufacturer.

I am not joining conspiracy theories here and I am not pointing fingers. I am not complaining that the review is late. dpReview is hurting everybody equally, themselves, customers and the manufacturers.

I am however referring to your answers your posted previously elsewhere. These answers are suggesting you are not aware that review results impact sales of manufacturer. They do. And a reviewer should understand this and should carry this burden of responsibility well and consciously.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

Dear Heie2,

I meant you indeed. But not at all you alone. Please also refer to my previous posts. But I am also specifically replying your latest one:

1) I very much agree the much delayed review of this outstanding camera is very, very bad!
2) I was also upset about that he was not taking responsibility about impact on Pentax sales of delayed reviews. Thus my post about reviewer responsibility of timely reviews
3) About succeeding. I meant very specifically that this author is succeeding at being responsive in these discussions. You have to admit this is an accomplishment. I was not referring that this K5 review is a full success. I also was astonished about the relatively low score.
4) You still have not recognized that at least in one regards dpReview has given Pentax credit as they have not done so ( at least to my knowledge ) to any other vendor, which is the one page complete committed to outstanding Pentax feature.
5) I did not objected the content of your criticism ...

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Heie2 continued ...
5) I did not objected the content of your criticism, but rather the tone:
* with lots of cynicism
* partly arrogant
* suggesting malicious intentions

I believe the dpReview Author would have been much more receptive to your correct information, would you have presented it in a neutral. This would have been more pleasant for him, more pleasant for us, more pleasant for you. And maybe you would have received a response of the like you were looking for, such as he admitted you have been correct.

Instead you insulted the man and he become defensive. In such environment critical discussion becomes limited and difficult. Seldom successful.

I hope this makes more sense now.

And I want to repeat one more time, I did not meant you alone, not all. You at least stayed on topic and on facts. It was my feeling in general that comments on dpReview are mostly dark and cynic. Seldom light and enlightening. Not only for this product but on many others as well.

0 upvotes

Dear senn_b,

Great minds seem to think alike. I am just coming back from company with family dinner and was shooting some pics and clips. Lovely.

Thank you for your comment and humor! Now, with more oxygen here is my thought on your comment:

1) I have no doubt dpReview staff can speak for themselves. I am sure they can speak way better for themselves than I ever can as I am not them, and I am not a native speaker.

2) I was speaking for MYSELF.
I really did not enjoyed wading through these mostly negative in tone comment. ( Please separate this from negative in content comment. I agree the criticism in content, I do not agree the negative tone. It is possible to write a disagreeing comment in a polite and agreeable tone )

3) I was also speaking for those who wrote the comments in bitter tone
They were trying to achieve a necessary change in dpReview. Or at least a first step, dpReview agreeing that the review to be 9 month late is really bad, bad , bad ...

0 upvotes

... would have dpReview agreed to it, a lot of this negative energy would have dissipated. But due to the very negative tone of the criticism a logical debate on the subject did not happen, but rather an emotional one did. And no side recognized anything. No communication really happened. People talked at each other, but not to each other. Really sad for everybody involved: The author of the comment, the author of the Article, and those who followed reading.

I hope this makes more sense now. Let me know if you still disagree. If so where and why. I think to come to an understanding on how to communicate politely -- especially when disagreeing -- will help everybody here.

0 upvotes

I agree entirely with everything you said, however I felt that while my tone was/is aggressive (a tendency of mine at times, I admit), it was never insulting. In the event I am in similar circumstances, I fully expect to be called incompetent/neglectful/etc should that be accurate. That isn't an insult: it's being succinct and having the maturity and integrity to call a spade a spade as opposed to focusing and prioritizing feelings over content. As you mentioned, I never deviated from the facts and presented them lucidly.

Conversely, go to the Pentax SLR Talk and in Mr. Barnett's very own thread that he started about the review being posted and see if the polite, overly respectful questions (which I am not condemning in the slightest) questioning his execution of this review have earned a response from Mr. Barnett.

1 upvote

You have been disrespectful, actually. Re-read your own posts. I did respond in those threads on the day the review was posted, look again. But I've been busy here lately trying to respectfully respond to you, among others.

0 upvotes

I apologize if you felt that way, as I was merely being candid - a quality of mine I admit I am reminded is not often welcome. Regardless, if you felt insulted/disrespected, it would have behooved you to contact me directly (i.e. via pm) and state so as opposed to being so defensive.

I sincerely never intended to be insulting or disrespectful, and if I felt as such from you, I would have contacted you directly and notified you of that. I apologize for making assumptions that how I would prefer to be professionally engaged was not reciprocal to your preferences.

All of that notwithstanding, there are many issues pertaining to your review that are awaiting your attention.

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

@ Heie2

I very much appreciate your reply. Thank you. But you can not call this review incompetent. It is rather very, very competent. Where you and Shawn disagree are either minute details or questions of weighting. As far as I can tell it is possible both of you would actually come to agreements rather quickly if you discussed matters relaxed. But from where I sit it looks to me that you have been disrespectful and Shawn has been defensive / resenting, which is a normal reaction. You want to convince Shawn to make a change. That is admirable. But being disrespectful is simply not helping you. Nor is it joyful for others to read. And even if you do not agree to be disrespectful, you agreed to be aggressive. ( By the way a common problem I share ). All the same. If you are aggressive, the response will be defensive, again your intent was lost in aggression.

0 upvotes

@ Shawn,

Once more I want to show my appreciation for your engaging in replying to the comments. I would appreciate very much your replies on my posts:

a) on the matter of responsibilities of Reviewers ( see above )
b) Consistency of Pros Points K5 versus D7100

I really hope you do not understand me as nagging. I very much appreciate the level of detail and accuracy of dpReviews reviews and in fact there is no any other site that comes even close to dpReview in this regards.

That being said, I believe that coming to an understanding on above topics would help dpReview to reach an even higher level and it might dissolve some of the negative energy in the comments here. I am available for personal discussions on this topic if you would like. Post me a personal message and I will respond. A phone call is in order too. I am in China Time zone. In case you are in the US, Your morning is my night. I am about to retire for tonight.

0 upvotes

Gold award, not bad for a $800 weather proof DSLR!
Is Pentax still making DSLRs? I mean new ones?

1 upvote

Yep. K-30. Pretty darn amazing camera. Weather-sealed, mostly better features than K5II. I got mine for 500 USD. Pentax also makes very amazing lenses too!

1 upvote

@ Shawn Barnett

I very much appreciate you take the time and reply so many comments. Thank you so much! I am hoping this will become a dpreview standard mode of operation.

3 upvotes

Thanks. I'm trying.

5 upvotes

@ Shawn Barnett

You are succeeding!

2 upvotes

"Pentax cameras are great, but Pentax as system seriously lacks lenses. Beside several excellent primes (which still do not cover the whole range), there is literally no good zooms for the system."
For Pentax-K there are about 80 different lenses in the current production line.
Isn't it enough?
I've got DA*16-50 and 55-300 and those are very good lenses.
Why to propagate info trash?!

1 upvote

Dear maxola67

I searched the entire Article and could not find the statement you quoted. Could you let us know which page ?

Just in case. I have a pretty elaborate Pentax lens system. And in whichever way I want to expand, I know there is the proper lens available. So I agree your comment that the Pentax System is very complete.

The only thing I can not see doing it is professional sports photography.

0 upvotes

To be clear, the review doesn't say that. He's responding to something ThePhilips said further down, a paraphrase of something someone else said.

2 upvotes

@ Shawn. Thanks for the clarification!

0 upvotes

The 16-50 is miserable. I've owned it, it's not a good lens.

0 upvotes

If DPR didn't wait 9 months, the K5II(S) would have scored better — according to DPR's own words of balancing expectations of a camera relative to its current situation and peers.
So where is the logic in that — be late to make a review for 9 months, and honour it with "today's relative value"?
Someone could even think that you have waited for a new model of Nikon to come out, so that the K5II would not look as good as its newer peer, from a brand you'll always favour with timely reviews (as Simon acknowledged few weeks ago).
In a way, you guys on DPR do protect Nikon's interests. You care more about Nikon. If this Pentax camera is often overlooked even if full of unique treats for photographers, to paraphrase your words from the review, you do contribute a great deal to it, by writing damn late reviews, when camera is almost to be replaced with a new model.

8 upvotes

You're over-thinking it. It was a busy Fall filled with new cameras and many conflicting priorities. We've done the best we can. It's not a conspiracy. Both cameras got gold awards because we think they're worthy. Gold's not good enough? What difference does it make if the camera scores better? Will our score help it take better pictures? Nikon's interests? I'm pretty sure Nikon can take care of itself.

As for the K-5 II's score, it's a little lower because it didn't change much after more than two years. It isn't a contest, it's a relative judgment based on changes in the market. This review was overwhelmingly positive on a camera that's very little different from its 2010 predecessor; where are you finding offense?

3 upvotes

You're underthinking it.

"with new cameras and many conflicting priorities." That's exactly what has been said - Pentax is given the priority of red-headed stepchildren.

"As for the K-5 II's score, it's a little lower because it didn't change much after more than two years." Could it be a testament to being ahead of its time in the first place, and then having the smarts to keep what works? I hope they NEVER abandon the K-5 body. EVER.

I personally find offense to the inaccuracy of the review. The truth is, everyone goes to the conclusion page and that's it, especially those whom aren't very camera saavy. So when you artificially deflate the scores, it sends the wrong message to those not diligent to do their due research. For instance, build quality. There isn't a camera with better build quality for less than $2500. PERIOD. And even then, the K-5 can compete against the D4/1DX. Its ergonomics are without fail praised as being "as close to perfection as cameras get."

7 upvotes

So Gold isn't good enough for you.

"Could it be a testament to being ahead of its time in the first place, and then having the smarts to keep what works?"

Its high score is reflective of that sentiment. Please don't hold me accountable for the parts of the review you didn't read.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Heie2, had you read the review, you'd see statements like these: "Much as other manufacturers generally update internal components of their professional SLRs while leaving the controls untouched, Pentax focused on what needed updating in the K-5 - namely the autofocus and sensor - and left the rest alone. That leaves less to talk about in a review of this sort, but most of the camera's old tricks - dating back to the K-7 - are unique enough that they still seem new."

"As far as the number and arrangements of control points are concerned, there are no external differences whatsoever. This is good news - as far as operational handling is concerned, these cameras are quite pleasurable to use."

0 upvotes

Heie2: And how about this gem from the first paragraph of the conclusion:

"Though they don't represent hugely significant upgrades to the original K-5, the Pentax K-5 II and K-5 IIS still hold their own in the current SLR market, with excellent image quality, solid build, and a proven interface. We appreciate the tight, simple design of the K-5 II, one that offers quick access to a rich feature-set. Where the K-5 II shines, though, is its quality sensor, which seems essentially unchanged from its predecessor."

And a little further down: "Thanks to the sensor we liked so much in the K-5 and Nikon D7000, the Pentax K-5 II still turns out excellent images with a wide dynamic range and low noise, while maintaining good shadow and highlight detail."

0 upvotes

(cont. from above)

Features? You mentioned (albeit hastily) the sensor shifting for composition adjusting and the astro tracer (you failed to mention how cheap the O-GPS1 is for what it offers - $150 and it's yours). How about having stabilized primes under 90mm - Nikon has *none* and my Sigma 8-16mm on any Pentax is stabillized, as well as my 8mm fish eye. EIGHT MILLIMETER LENSES. How about pixel mapping that you can do by yourself and not have to send in to service for in the event you have hot pixels? But "Features" category score is high enough. For a $1000 camera...

Less than exceptional RAW image quality? Really? Considering your partnership with DXO I would have thought you'd pay attention to their measurements. I advise you look at their Number *4* camera under "Landscape." Out of 216 they've reviewed. "Dizzying heights" was their term for the K-5 II series DR.

Lastly, the D7100 seems to have better "performance." Tell that to burst mode shooters and their 7 RAW buffer...

2 upvotes

Okay. You're obviously inconsolable. Every review has cons. Try not to take them personally. I really liked the Pentax K-5 II and K-5 IIS and strongly recommend them to fans of cameras and photography. I said so in a fairly detailed review, offering photographic evidence. If you prefer to see me as saying something else, I clearly can't change your mind.

3 upvotes

@ Heie2

I can understand your feeling that Pentax Cameras are very under-appreciated in the market. I just got my K-30 and the amount of additional and useful features it provides is blowing my mind. I now feel like an idiot I was even considering the Sony NEX-6 over the Pentax K-30. I am working on a Review from the perspective of an Enthusiast Photographer to hopefully make these features more visible to a broader audience. Your comments have been very useful and will make it into my review. So thank you.

May I suggest however that you notice that this review awarded the K5II the most prestigious gold award and on top of that dpreview awarded Pentax a dedicated page of "Standout Features Explored". I have not seen dpreview ever to do this for another brand!

Your language also suggest a bitterness and resentment, which usually never helps to speed up communicating what you want to say.

That being said, I appreciate the technical contents of your posts. Thank you.

1 upvote

Heie2,

I can understand your frustration, but you also have to acknowledge the reality and ask yourself why Pentax is not better treated, not just by reviewers everywhere, but also by consumers. Why are they not buying the K5 for example, with its "dizzling" high performance results, Gold Award, and high praises, like -

- There isn't a camera with better build quality for less than $2500. PERIOD. And even then, the K-5 can compete against the D4/1DX. Its ergonomics are without fail praised as being "as close to perfection as cameras get."

Why then does this camera not sell at even $799? or has to be discounted so low?

The answer is obvious. Most people or 99.9% of the system camera buyers have already given up and left Pentax for dead. Who wants to risk their money buying Pentax lenses? How can they have confidence buying if they do not know if or when an upgrade model is ever coming, if ever. With no interest from buyers/readers, why should DPR and others bother to review.

1 upvote

"As for the K-5 II's score, it's a little lower because it didn't change much after more than two years. "

i think the k5-2 is about as good as the D600. Better Raw Noise (review here never mentions best APS-c results, even beating Full Frame sensors)) and features, vs. 50 percent more pixels and more AF fields.

It doesnt matter if its 2 years old, its still APC-s class leader.
That said, the K30 is almost as good as the K5.2 and costs ONE THIRD of the D600.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

@ Sergey,

I do not agree people have given up on Pentax nor that there is any reason to? Do not forget the K-30 is reasonably new and had quite some improvements over the K5. Also please recognize Pentax has a different product cycle strategy, one which actually makes me more confident in buying Pentax. The develop longer on a camera model. Make it much better at release time than competition. Then they keep it longer in production. Due to the stronger development they are still competitive even when being in the market for 24 month. But due to keeping the product in production very long, they can enjoy cost savings, which they are so kind to pass onto us, the buyer.

So what does Pentax give me: Better thought our cameras with better handling, significantly more features and significantly less bugs in a more durable housing. And due to longer product life cycle the resale value of my equipment is also higher.

Honestly speaking. I think this is smart and works very well for me!

0 upvotes

Does "changes in the market" take into consideration cameras which have release dates months/years after the camera in question (not specifically the K-5II)? Based on that approach it would seem 'reasonable' to lower ALL scores from previous reviews within the context of what is currently available and which has also been reviewed. But honestly, I've never thought that refining something was worth less than not. Gold scores may well be overdue for a Carat qualifier.

0 upvotes

@ Hubert
Agree with your assessment of the Pentax systems and product lineage.
I own a Kx, still a formidable sensor, when teamed up with good glass. Like the cheapo but stunning 55-300, produces great images. So much so that according to snapsort, the sensor quality still outperforms recent Canon models. Obviously other factors like processing to consider, but an entry level Pentax designed how many years ago, way ahead of the opposition on many counts at the time, still comparable, much like the K5.
Pentax problem is marketing and dropping the ball at the end film days and beginning digital days. Never recovered from that, however product wise and kit lenses very good in their class, some very nice zooms and well known high quality primes.
Just got to move with the times and technology.

0 upvotes

Shawn Barnett wrote:

"What difference does it make if the camera scores better?"

If it doesn't make a difference then why not increase the score to 100 or eliminate the scores entirely?... So the scores do make a difference, right?...

"It isn't a contest, it's a relative judgment based on changes in the market."

The market has changed in the amount of time it took to publish the review.

1 upvote

@ DPR:
What is the PDAF accuracy of K-5 II/IIs, especially in artificial light??? Have you tested it? This has been a major problem with SAFOX.

Comment edited 12 seconds after posting

1 upvote

See Page 7, "Low light image quality and AF." When I did the extreme low light AF test my light source was reflected fluorescent light, which I did not mention in the review.

1 upvote

I did but it's not clear what is the AF accuracy (not just whether it can focus under low light) under tungsten light. I'm sure many Pentax -and, I'm afraid, past- DSLR users are very much interested about potential improvements in the area. Thanks for your reply.

0 upvotes

that should have said d4

0 upvotes

Will a review of the nikon ever be done?

0 upvotes

Ha, nice one!

0 upvotes

There is no doubt the Pentax is a great DSLR body design. I think it is much better than the Nikon D7000 or D7100. But how many jumped ship from the K10D and/or K20D to Nikon over AF issues and noise control? Pentax obviously solved the noise issues, but how about AF now? With which Pentax lenses does it lag in this regard?

0 upvotes

I think opposite. D7100 has 24Mp and result on high ISO same as 16Mp Pentax. And + 8Mp is quite big advantage. And for me is more important IQ, than body design.

1 upvote

@ murnintroll:

I am using the K-30, mostly with FA 30 mm f/2 and FA 50 mm f/1.4. These lenses are not known to be a speed demon. PDAF is blazingly fast. Hunting is a thing of the past. AF appears to be spot on. I still need to to critical AF precision testing. I am using most of time CDAF however, it is significantly slower, but still about the speed of the *istDS PDAF. But its accuracy is stunning. Let me know if this answered your question ?

1 upvote

As an owner of both the K-5 and K-5 II, I can testify that AF accuracy on the II in both low and artificial light is in a different league compared with the old camera. Also, for the first time on a Pentax body, I have not felt the need to AF adjust any of my lenses. Can't comment on tracking in AF-C because I tend not to use it.

0 upvotes

@Jimmy jang Boo:
not in raw, there the sony is humilliated by the pentax

1 upvote

in raw, amazingly it beats pretty much everything using a d7000 sensor. i believe it has to do with an amazing technology called noise reduction.

0 upvotes

Quote: The battery door has a tendency to open during normal operation. Taping it shut when working in wet conditions might be prudent ....

I have to say I have had the K-7 (same body as the K-5/K-5II/K-5IIs), the K-5 MKI and now the K-5II and have taken thousands of shots with each camera. The only time the battery door has opened is when I was changing the battery, not once has it done it otherwise.

10 upvotes

Yeah, I don't get that one? You have to pull and turn a lever to even open it. I have never even opened the memory card door by accident and I use my K5 a lot.

0 upvotes

Yep, miscue on my part. Card door is the correct answer.

0 upvotes

Yep, the battery door has never been a problem with either my K-5 or K-5 II. I like the design.

0 upvotes

Neither has the card door on mine. Over 20k pics in rainy conditions, on the beach, hot weather and the cockpit of a helicopter (my day time job) and it has never had "a tendency to open during normal operation." Either a duff one or dodgy gripping action?

4 upvotes

I have personally owned the K-7, K-5, K-30 and K-5 IIs. Not ONCE have I *EVER* had *ANY* flap or door open without my doing so purposefully. EVER. Over the course of several years and tens of thousands of shots between them, to include combat photography and my cameras bouncing on my vest during dismounted patrols. Not. Once.

It seems like DPR is constantly on a mission to *find* faults with Pentax's cameras because there are just too few and a short con list wouldn't look good compared to the Canikon competition. I admit the C-AF is not in the same league as the competition, but other than that? I won't comment any further than has been done regarding your out-of-touch sense of reality when it comes to a video button on a STILLS camera.

It's disheartening the lack of objectivity and competence here. I guess that's what "free" buys your audience.

2 upvotes

Now it's my comments on the card door that are causing a problem and drawing conspiracy theories. You really are sensitive. It happened. More than once. Maybe it's how I hold the camera. Ever consider that someone else's experience might be different from yours? The camera got a GOLD award. You prefer reviews, I'm perceiving, where only good things are said about cameras you've invested in? We won't publish those about any camera because there are always cons to consider.

Look at the cons list for the last two Nikons we reviewed. There are eight cons. There are only seven in this K-5 II/IIS review. If it's a conspiracy, Nikon users have a better argument.

Last I checked, the Pentax K-5 II offers video. It is not just a stills camera. I'm personally in agreement that a movie start button isn't a deal-breaker for me, but we think it's important to say it for the sake of those for whom it would be.

Your comment about the Pentax C-AF system makes me think you're a Nikonian after all.

0 upvotes

I prefer objectivity. I prefer integrity and competence. I am invested in Pentax well more than I ever thought I would be and than most people are. But I appreciate an honest review that gets it right. I am not afraid of criticizing my own gear and pointing out the shortfalls.

Honestly it seemed that you liked the cameras. It really did. But at the end of the day, you failed to capture that in the review scoring which is your single most important component of the entire review. Please do not blame your ineptitude on my displeasure at it.

1 upvote

OFHS Heie2. I have never looked at the score on camera reviews (or indeed whether it is a bronze, silver or gold). I read the words.

As far as I'm aware, dpreview is not reviewing your manhood.

2 upvotes

The review is quite objective and quite positive. If you can't see that a new camera with few changes should be re-evaluated when it is reviewed again several years later, I can't convince you. Your insults are ill-aimed at someone who did his level best to judge the cameras fairly and give people good advice.

Re-evaluating a camera based on the evidence and comparing it to the current market is objectivity. Some of the scores even went up relative to the K-5, which is hard to see with the bars. You put too much importance in numerical increase, when our intent for the scores has always been stated as relative to the current market, not as judgments set in stone for all time. So your expectation that they should always go up is based on a mistaken impression. You can disagree with that, but you needn't be so concerned with it. Most people who can read will understand my words more than minor nudges in green bars in a score chart: The K-5 II is a very good camera.

Good night.

0 upvotes

For more on our scoring system, read this rather comprehensive document: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4416254604/camera-scores-ratings-explained

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Apparently it's me that doesn't get it. Apparently I am the only one that considers this imaginary Joe Average who has no idea what ISO and RAW are. This made up guy that skips to the last page of the book and bases everything he needs to know on one colorful graph as opposed to 15 pages of detailed, positive statements (in case you missed it while defending yourself "Honestly it seemed that you liked the cameras. It really did.") This guy who has no desire to read a comprehensive scoring system rubric because what more is there to know than a B-/C+ grade?

Apparently it is I that is out of touch.

1 upvote

Yep.

0 upvotes

yes

0 upvotes

Heie2, sounds about right. For you, the score is critical. I get that. It must go up, never down. I get that too, and disagree with the notion, even as i understand your point. But you won't respond to evidence that it's a very positive review. The person you stand to defend, who reads only the bars in the score, apparently can't read the very first lines of the Overall Conclusion, which I quoted. Or the review summary, which is right in the same box as the bars.

I frankly expected to be fried by fans of other camera platforms for being so positive about the K-5 II and K-5 IIS, not by its fans.

0 upvotes

"It must go up, never down." Please reread everything I had said. I am not looking for artificially inflating scores "just because." I am championing accuracy. I have said it multiple times that you were generally positive about the cameras, albeit not comprehensive enough and not giving due attention to many critical features in your write up. But when the overall assessment came in a non-subjective manner -- there is no way to misread and interpret a graph other than the exact way it is presented as opposed to wording and language -- and it fails to accurately represent both the camera itself and your own review, especially when compared to its main competitor (D7100), that is what I take issue with. If it was too high, I would have said so despite owning the camera myself. I can't stress enough that accuracy is my focus here. Not inflation for the sake of promotion. We have politicians and the U.S. eduation system for that ;)

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

1 upvote

it's almost the perfect camera for me, I wish they hadn't added the mandatory in camera noise reduction in high iso RAW

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

The NEX-5N has the same IQ but beats both of these cameras in low light/high ISO performance and overall performance by a good margin.

2 upvotes

LOL. Tip your bartenders and waitresses, he'll be here all week.

6 upvotes

Nah, I had the NEX 6 and the low light / high iso is not better. Sorry.

1 upvote

Dream on, Jimmy Boo.

1 upvote

Mmhhh...comparing the thing that counts, the raw files, the NEX 5N and 6 seem sharper at low ISO than the 5II and as good as the K5IIs at low ISO. High ISO 1600 all are about the same.

So I guess that´s no dream.

The Olympus OM-E5 looks better to me too in the low ISO sharpness department.

0 upvotes

I have shot K-30 and NEX-5 side by side in these weeks using the exact same lenses via adapter. I can say this:

* The NEX-5 User Interface infuriates me
* I see no significant differences in RAW file performance of either cameras
* The K-30 has in-body Shake Reduction. In the same shooting conditions where I shoot the NEX-5 @ 3200 ISO I shoot the K30 in 400 ISO. This makes HUGE difference!
* The K30 has a much, much better LCD! This is important when using LCD viewfinder!
* Did I mentioned that the UI of the NEX5 drives me Nuts, Bonkers, Crazy ?
* The K-30 can be so customized to your shooting style, it is beyond believe. Once you customized your K-30 and you shot with it for a week, it becomes and extension of your body. When you shoot, you forget you operate a camera, you forget everything and hours later you come back to reality with an SD card full of great pictures. Never happened with my NEX-5. Not even close.

3 upvotes

that said, the RAW noise is a bit better than the D600 - a camera that costs 2x times as much.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

6 upvotes

Yeah, not so much.

1 upvote

i just go to "compare to RAW" and voila thats all the review i need....

7 upvotes

This camera deserves a lot more attention than it gets. The first "real" camera I had was a Pentax ME Super that my 5th grade librarian gave me in 2000. Compact and sturdy, attributes apparently shared by the K5II.

3 upvotes

I like that, in 2000, people were using and learning with film.
I still see college kids using film and I sold my EOS Elan 7 to one, who loved it and was thrilled to be doing a retro art photo project for a class. You learn a lot about exposure when every shot cost you $$, before and after.

0 upvotes

This is a fair and excellent review.thanks dpr.
I like the simple and comperhensive round up..
and thanks pentax for gaining the most benfit of this old but trusty sensor.
sorry for my bad english

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting

7 upvotes

That is what I call a commitment. Though I personally have no liking for K-mount system, I can only admire Pentax's perseverance and loyalty to its users. If only for that, the camera deserve Gold.

3 upvotes

I would buy this camera if video was on par with Canon. In fact, I had the K-5 and sold it because of the video. I must say I didn't really appreciate the AF that was hit or miss in some specific situation. Anyway, for those who bought this camera, they're going to love the ergonomics. Canon and Nikon should learn from them. Every buttons is perfectly placed.

2 upvotes

If video is important buy a NEX. The 5N blows this out of the water.

1 upvote

The K5 is a marvellous camera; these two are even better. Stop whining. Pentax builds great stuff; it's small as it can be, built like a tank, looks beautiful, and NOBODY ELSE has the limited lenses (except maybe Leica, but then, they don't have weatherproof zooms, or anything for under $3,000.00). Looking forward to the K3, and glad they're taking their time with it.

I just wish they'd build a nice 135 f2.8 again. And they need something between the 21 and the 31. And a weatherproof flash. And they should just make everything weatherproof.

Cheers,
Cameron
Pentax fanboy

12 upvotes

I second the lack of 125 to 135 mm f/2.5 prime.

You could go with a D FA lens lineup:( 50 | 100 | 200 ) mm. But the D FA 50 mm is not particularly strong.

I more favor the ( D FA 35 mm AL | DA 70 mm ). then the jump to 200 mm is too big and from 70 to 100 mm is too small. So when shooting limited 125 ... 135 mm is missing.

Hint to Pentax: OEM the phased out Voigtlander 125 mm f/2.5 and you will have a winner! Do not use your old K135 mm formula :-)

0 upvotes

I was a pentax user until the AF and pentax service of K-5 turned me away. Looking at K-5 II now, I cannot help but feeling it is such a handsome camera, hopefully Pentax can do better this time.

0 upvotes

Nice review. Can someone tell me what the prime lens is on the camera on the right ( our right side). Thanks

0 upvotes

43 1.9

2 upvotes

Anyone else chuckle when they mention that by the time the review is out, the price has now dropped by 33%, which now makes it a great deal! I guess we Pentax users can look at this as a positive, as those unfortunate Canikons that get reviewed the week the things hit store shelves get reviewed at their launch price.

9 upvotes

It is a great deal. Whats unfortunate is that it is marketed so poorly that the price has dropped to a point where there cannot be much profit in it for Pentax. I've always like Pentax cameras, a shooters camera and incredible build at the price point. Unfortunately, Pentax can't sell them.

7 upvotes

Maybe Pentax is targeting a different crowd that like to research the market themselves. All they need to do is keep making great cameras and lenses.

1 upvote

If Amazon had reviewed this camera quickly rather than waited almost a year I can't help but suspect it would have been even more difficult to place it anywhere but at the top of its class. Even now it's head and shoulders above, though careful wording (typos aside...) has succeeded in making what in CaNikon bodies are "choices" into "faults" here.

Great camera. Why not promote it like the others? They might even sell.

13 upvotes

Our job is to review cameras, not promote them. We gave them both Gold awards, though, which is our highest award.

9 upvotes

1) amazon didn't review this camera, we did
2) we're not here to 'promote' cameras or sales.

7 upvotes

"I can't help but suspect it would have been even more difficult to place it anywhere but at the top of its class."

All Pentax fans say so. And only Pentax fans say so.

I have seen a number of people migrating from 43 to Pentax, and only short time later to migrate from Pentax to CaNikon or even back to 43.

And their comments were. Pentax cameras are great, but Pentax as system seriously lacks lenses. Beside several excellent primes (which still do not cover the whole range), there is literally no good zooms for the system.

2 upvotes

50-135 is very nice

4 upvotes

"...there is literally no good zooms for the system."

Clearly you've never touched the DA* 16-50 or DA* 60-250. Also, the 16-45, although just recently discontinued, is still a fantastic lens that can be had for less than $300. While a "kit" lens, have you forgotten about the only weather sealed 18-55 WR ("Weather Resistant") kit lens available? The 18-135 WR is the same as being alone in its class for offering WR for a very affordable price (under $400 at amazon right now) for such a zoom. And it's pretty damn good for what it does too. Don't forget one of the best 55-300 budget zooms from any system.

Oh, and I almost forgot - the DA* 50-135. A lens so highly respected that it is often regarded as a replacement for primes in that range.

I'm a Pentaxian, and one of the most "famous" (search "Pentax Dust and Weather Sealing in Afghanistan" in Youtube). I can admit that. But to claim that there are "literally no good zooms for the system" is ABSOLUTELY ludicrous and a downright lie.

18 upvotes

@ThePhilips so if you do not leave then you are pentax fanboy and what they say should not count , if they leave you can always say that pentax system is bad because people leaving it. Strange logic this. If it counts, I have been using pentax for last 15 years and no chance of giving up on it.

3 upvotes

It may be DPR's mission in life to review cameras but I really doubt Amazon bought the site simply to provide a public service. Assuring consumers that a camera is worthy of a Gold award is even better than a potentially biased endorsement or promotion.

3 upvotes

What dpreview should do is overhaul it's rating system. Now it looks as if the K5-ii is worse than the K5, which is definately not the case. Why not use a score that's continuously increasing like futuremark for example?

4 upvotes

@ThePhillips- I would like to know how many people have migrated from 43rds to Pentax and back as you said. I know only of one and the other one "that did" is still keeping and using (and just got) one of the new K-5's.

As for great lenses- pure myth and BS - the Pentax system does have them. It is not every single lens but the ones that are good, are good. You should try one for yourself. And of course, ergonomics and sensor are amazing.

3 upvotes

@ThePhillips - oh btw, this is a really ignorant comment -
"there is literally no good zooms for the system."
That is simply not true.

3 upvotes

@ Shawn

I saw you have received a lot of unreasonable and unnecessary beating. Please consider the following as a kind request to open your mind and rethink your position on responsibility of reviews.

Here is my background. I was responsible for marketing and sales of branded products. Which brand is not relevant, but suffice to say we have been the market leader for a certain product category in central Europe. For the duration of this product line sales volume per month was directly proportional to review results in the major publication. To be more clear: Sales success was not proportional to quality and competitive fitness of product, but was proportional to test review score. E.g. Once we introduce a new much better product and sales were bad, but the older worst product sold better. After the ( 9 month delayed ) review came out and the new product scored in the review, sales of the new product exploded and the old one finally collapsed. ...

1 upvote

... I think the conclusion of this experience is clear:

Delaying a great review result for 9 month does hurt the manufacturer.

I am not joining conspiracy theories here and I am not pointing fingers. I am not complaining that the review is later. dpreview is hurting eerybody equally, themselves, customers and the manufacturer.

I am however referring to your answers suggesting you are not aware that review results impact sales of manufacturer. They do. And a reviewer should understand this and should carry this burden of responsibility well and consciously.

2 upvotes

The 16-50 is a miserable lens. This lens cannot compare to a Nikon 17-55 or 24-70. Not at all.

The 50-135, however, is excellent.

Considering that all these lenses are made by Tokina, it is ridiculous that Pentax does not offer the 11-16mm f/2.8.

0 upvotes

The statement "Amazon did not review the camera, we did" above does not seem compatible with the site's own statements here:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2007/5/14/amazonacquiresdpreview

There is really little else to say; if the site staff on the one hand celebrate publicly the acquisition of the site by Amazon and on the other hand state in effect "we are not Amazon" I don't quite see the point in any further comment from a user such as me.

Thanks for the article.

0 upvotes

To call the 16-50 a miserable lens is a gross exaggeration. The Nikon 17-55mm is not THAT much better, only at f/2.8 on the borders it's clearly better otherwise it's a wash.

Agreed that the lack of 11-16mm f/2.8 is a pity though. There are also other lacks like a good 16-85mm (although the 17-70mm f/4 is close) and of course longer telephotos and teleconverters.

0 upvotes

Sorry no movie button. For the birds.

0 upvotes

The camera has programable buttons. If you want a movie button, make one a movie button.
This camera has so many features, I would like to have professional assistance. The manual is easy to read,but I need more.

3 upvotes

So in a decade from now, to avoid such reviews nuisance with "lacking this mode or that", all cameras will be video by default. And a "historicity penalty" for a manufacturer issued by some camera review site would be "doesn't have a stills button on top plate".

16 upvotes

Or, the penalty may be "Still photo button is too obtrusive and can be accidentally pressed"

1 upvote

The standout features are truly outstanding, the "Composition Adjustment" is essentially turning every lens into a "shift" lens, although only 1.5mm on either side...
Why don't Pentax offer tilt also, a 1 degree tilt is much more significant than a 1mm shift.

0 upvotes

sadly, another camera review with horrible sample photos... i'm afraid no one pays attention to the samples anymore here on dpreview.com... back in the day, when most reviews were done by Phil Askey, the samples were so much better in terms of content and composition...

1 upvote

What does composition have to do with anything? You need to see some grainy, moody, over-processed monochrome street scene to judge the capabilities of the sensor? Comical.

7 upvotes

i just wished the IIs samples also used some sharp prime lenses. the zoom is just horrible.

1 upvote

My experience is the zoom used is just marvellous. I have most of the DA & prime lenses but the 18-135 is just as good and very versatile.

1 upvote

so it's been downhill since 2004, basically.

3 upvotes

Actually, Phils reviews were never known for artistic shooting. Workman and useful come to mind. Todays images have more than enough useful information to make a informed purchasing descision, as well as some good shots.

3 upvotes

You need to see some grainy, moody, over-processed monochrome street scene to judge the capabilities of the sensor?...

since when does a proper, old school, good composition include grain, over-processed monochrome?

i was only referring to the samples as not being well-composed... they seem to me as though they're merely hasty shots lacking in aesthetics, primarily good content, appealing subject etc... thats it... you did not have to FRY me for that.. ;)

some good samples from dpreview.com:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/33
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond200/32
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dsmkii/27
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/24
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse300/30
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/konicaminolta7d/27

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting

1 upvote

Sorry to not meet your expectations, Mark. I take my gallery shots to demonstrate the camera's features, primarily its sensor, and I post them uncropped and unmodified. As such, I frame elements that interest me and show some detail and color. That's tougher to do here in Seattle, where sunny days are rare. In the future, don't look to our gallery shots for great art. They are demonstrations of what sensor and lens can achieve; we'll leave the art to you.

2 upvotes

I think it was a good decision to keep my K-5 and to waive the update

5 upvotes

Question for the DPreview team. I don't wish to start a flame war here but I'm comparing the D5200 to the Pentax. I understand that Nikon normally produces softer images out the box which is not a problem as you can incorporate it into your workflow, but there looks like a serious problem with the Nikon images, and I'd like some clarity on whether it's the lens distortion or not. There is a radical change in softness around the edges of the 5200 compared to the Pentax. You can clearly see it on the label of the Martini bottle - top left and top right above the colour chart. It's clearly not normal - did the tripod shift, or is the kit lens to blame?

0 upvotes

You've got to try the 2 in a shop where you can handle them. Your mind will be made almost instantly!

0 upvotes

Please stop the "no movie button" nonsense this is a stills camera. I have a movie button on my camera, and guess what I disable it in the menu because you set it by accident (now I have a useless button that does nothing in stills shooting). This movie button commenting on reviews is tiresome.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

48 upvotes

Well, maybe t is not important for you. I like my movie button on my D4 and D800E.

15 upvotes

Thus give to God what is for God, and to Caesar what is for Caesar. If a camera has no video function included, there is no need to put "no movie button". Just say at beginning of the test that the camera has no video function, that's it. Relate the movie button when he is in the wrong place, but not if the camera has no video function. You see, I am among those that like all the video movie functions to have remained in movie cameras only. I have now also this useless movie button on mine. I am photogtapher, and if I do video, I use specific video material.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

My D7100 has a movie button. I'm a stills shooter but the movie button is still a great convenience. You don't have to use it if you consciously don't want to, but like the cup holder, it's sure as hell useful when you need it!

5 upvotes

Of course it's not a nonsense — that is "what is required". It doesn't matter if you need it or not — you better like it or you'll end up shooting film!
We need to cover top plate and back side of the camera with as many buttons as possible, to direct access to everything that comes to fad. A camera doesn't have a direct button for "Instagram cross-process toy filter look no. 16, voted by Kim Kardashian as totally cool"? Nah, pooh, 5 points down. :)

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

8 upvotes

I'ts got a moviebutton. Press mode select release, turn wheel two strokes en then press shutter, and you're on. I think direct moviebutton is a design choice by pentax. When you're into al lot of moviemaking. Get a canon. They are much better at it and there is magic lantern.

5 upvotes

If you shoot DSLR video, then not having a dedicated button is a con. But I personally don’t shoot DSLR video, so it’s not a con for me. How should I deal with this paradox? Should I be angry at DPreview for mentioning it? Let’s think about it:

All photographers have different needs. DPreview is trying to address as many of those needs as possible. That means some of the information is not useful to all people. Not all pros are pros for everyone, and not all cons are cons for everyone.

So when reading a review, if a pro or a con doesn't apply to me, then should just IGNORE it and move on. Determining what information is applicable to my needs is my responsibility and not DPreview’s.

Paradox solved...

1 upvote

"If you shoot DSLR video, then not having a dedicated button is a con. But I personally don’t shoot DSLR video, so it’s not a con for me. How should I deal with this paradox? "

It's not a paradox.

0 upvotes

Spot on Zvonimir. Many of us don't need the camera to look like the console of a space ship.

0 upvotes

"It's not a paradox."

I know, I was being sarcastic to make a point.

1 upvote

The point being here for folks who don't shoot video or that often (ie most of the DSLR users out there) the video button on Sony/Nikon models is just another useless button that can't be configured to do anything else, yet given a prominent place on the camera ergonomics wise. This is a waste IMO and I can't really say relevant to most users, sure mention it but at the top of the cons list?

0 upvotes

Could this creates consensus?

Professional Shooting = Movie Button irrelevant

When shooting professionally you know you are going to shoot many clips. You set your mode dial to movie once and then you shoot away. Great workflow and a dedicated movie button could be even less useful, as it is in a less convenient position

Street/Family Shooting = Lack of movie button could miss shot

In street shooting/family shooting where your default mode is shooting stills, the lack of the movie button could make you miss the shot. If you suddenly see a scene unfolding, you might only have a second to start capturing it. It will take you two to set mode dial to movie mode and then commence shooting. Pentax cameras are squarely aimed at street and family photography. The lack of movie button for this application is indeed surprising. Or at least the capability to assign another button to this function is even more surprising.

Firmware fix: They should offer to assign Movie Button to Green button!

0 upvotes

I would like a movie button, I'd use it while shooting/filming wildlife. The green button could be reassigned in a firmware upgrade, as HubertChen points out. But this would not be a deciding factor for me.

I'd rather have manual exposure for video, or at least a way to fix the exposure at the beginning of each clip. For example, a white bird spreading its wings will cause exposure to change, which is quite distracting...

0 upvotes

Dear Miles,

I am using the K-30. I am not sure K5 is the same, but chance are. You have full control over exposure before you press the cord button. You have the equivalent choice of Manual Mode, Aperture Priority and Pentax very nice TAV mode. All modes offer exposure compensation which just can be dialed in accordingly. Metering pattern you can choose from Multi-Segment to Center weighted to spot metering. You would not want to change exposure during recording, as this would cause pumping in the video and is very distracting. What you want to do in your case is to simply choose the proper exposure. Spot metering on the white bird and underexpose -1.5 EV shall do that. Then press the record button. Exposure is locked during recording and no matter your bird is sitting or spreading the wings, it should be correct for the whole duration. Instead would you have auto exposure during recording, exposure would keep changing which would result in pumping ( bad ). I hope this helped ?

0 upvotes

I would like to upgrade my ageing Lumix G2, and I'm really hesitating between Nikon d7100 and Pentax K5II/s. UK Amazon body only Pentax K5II £678, K5IIS £849, Nikon d7100 £868 and 35mm prime lens are the same price for Pentax and Nikon.
So "moneywise" not much different between Pentax and Nikon. Both have a splash proof body that is quite useful in the UK, altough Pentax body is more compact.
I'd use for street, panorama, general photography, and enjoy going out taking pictures. Not for studio, videos or earn money with it. Anyone can help me to decide? I would really appreciate.

0 upvotes

I'd look at what lenses you might want to use. It seems like Nikons maintain outstanding resale value, just try to find a D90, D300, etc., but so do Pentax, because there are less extent bodies out there. Some of the older models, K-x, K-7, etc., cost almost as much as the K-5.

1 upvote

I personally love my X-E1. Have you tried it?

0 upvotes

If you're into street shooting, then you'll love the 21, 40 and 70 pancakes. Discrete jewels with top IQ, and unique to Pentax.

1 upvote

@Beeco

I use Nikon - mostly because I have done for years and wanted a camera that worked with my old manual focus Nikkor lenses. However, if I were getting into an APS-C DSLR system from scratch, I wouldn't hesitate to go for a Pentax system over Nikon - especially now they have fixed their AF system.

For what you say you want to use your camera for I think it would be ideal.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

1 upvote

Nice to see a Pentax DSLR review after some time. A couple of months ago when I was considering which new DSLR to buy instead of my K-r I had been deciding between the K-5, K-5 II and the K-30. I finally choose the K-30, because the K-5 II as a hot novelty was quite expensive; today I would go for it, as the prices got more reasonable.
Anyhow I think this camera is overlooked by many, despite the assessment of dpreview as being one of the best APS-C DSLRs.
I have visited Athens last week and (apart from sightseeing) I looked also at cameras other people took pictures with. During 4 days I saw only one (!) Pentax in a sea of Canons and Nikons. Anyhow my K-30 did well in the hot dusty conditions and I am happy with it.

11 upvotes

Had a brief moment with the IIs. While it feels too boxy for me, the low light focusing is superb. It's one heck of a cam, and that's from a Nikon user.

5 upvotes

@iudex: it must have been me!

1 upvote

@ KonstantinosK: No, it was a Japanese girl :-) And I have not noticed many Greeks (if any) at Acropolis, only crazy tourists like me :-)

1 upvote

Is it bad not to be in mainstream?
I went for Pentax 4 years ago just because competitors offered nothing valuable for such price. And nothing has changed in this aspect since. As for Nikon, I think this vendor(comparing it with Canon) has taken too much interest in marketing than creating user valuable cameras. Even Canon deserves more respect from this point of view.

5 upvotes

Interesting you say that because in the US Nikon just ran a full-eight color insert in USA Today in partner with Best Buy, i.e. expensive. I never realized before how strong Nikon marketing is. We're a long ways from Alex Agasse and the Canon AE-1 days.

1 upvote

iudex:

The domestic market is a bit odd for Pentax. The official distributor is not in Athens; they are in Thessaloniki. However the official service is not in Thessaloniki, they are in Athens.

So let's say I actually find a Pentax kit and buy it from Technio. If something were to go wrong, I'd have to contact Inlens.

In the film days there were two different strata of Pentax users: those that wanted a K series instead of a Soviet Zenit and those that wanted a 645. Now it's hard to find easy sources for distribution and support.

This situation is apparently not unusual, as Amazon's stance on Pentax reviews has earned some criticism as you can see.

0 upvotes

@ dpreview ( off topic )

Is there a chance that you can modify your pages so to remove the problem that without connection to a twitter server your page reload becomes unusable slow ?

I am using Windows 7-64 bit with Chrome. I reproduced the issue on Mac OS with Safari. IE on Windows is also same thing. I live in China with Twitter being blocked. If I use a VPN service your page loads very fast. If I do not use VPN the page loading stalls with Error message "Waiting for Twitter Server".

I understand you want to integrate Twitter. But is it necessary if no Twitter connection that all content does not load ? How about move the timeout for the twitter connection to the end of the page. I do not mind if my Browser keeps trying to connect to twitter after the entire page is loaded and I can start using it.

I apologize to post it here, I searched long and could not find another place to post. If there is, please let me know and I will re-post the question there.

2 upvotes

A bit late into the product cycle, a bit patchy (too much recycled material, with at times outdated comparisons, as has been noted by others), but finally we have a full review of these chronically-overlooked cameras! The review seems quite thorough and fair (which is what we've come to expect from dpreview), and confirms my first impressions when I handled these bodies at Photokina and compared them to my K-7 experience. No quantum leap from the classic K-5, but that already was an excellent photographic tool and therefore the Gold Awards are well deserved. And the modest updates also mean that Pentax can sell them at a highly-cempetitive price. How much I'd love to shoot either of the two versions - they'd make my Limiteds shine even more ... "Hey, snap out of it," my inner voice nags. "Grab your trusty K-7, go out, and just take pictures ..."

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

Thank you very much for the Test. I thoroughly enjoyed the Standout Features Explored Page. Bravo! I hope in the future to find this type of page on other camera tests too!

An interesting Standout Feature of K30 and K5 might have as well:
I just bought the K-30, so I am not sure if all applies. But here are my experiences so far:

PDAF speed was impressive for a Pentax and fast enough for almost everything other than sports action.

CDAF. Significantly slower, than PDAF, buy usable for everything other than action. However I found myself shooting in CDAF almost exclusively as a combination of features allows for a very smooth workflow. I am using Liveview with a Viewfinder. After proper programming I can move the AF focus point very fast over the screen where I want it. AE/SEL button is set to Focus. I programmed RAW/Fx button to digital preview. When I want to take a picture, I do not use the shutter but the preview button. I can then explore the preview instantly ...

5 upvotes

... I can zoom in etc .. If the shot was good, I can safe it. If no good I just press live view and continue shooting, next try with pressing Fx button, check preview. If good save it.

This method has a bunch of benefits:
* Much faster than workflow of shoot, wait save, zoom in, if not good delete, if good keep
* Much less movement of the photographer. If you shoot where a photographer causes irritation, I can shoot a series of pictures with no movement of myself dragging attention to the fact that I am shooting
* Much smoother workflow. After hours of shooting this method I am still fresh, shooting traditionally with OVF and review with LCD I am exhausted
* LCD + LCD viewfinder delivers an amazing viewfinder experience. Very big, depth of field preview
* visual focus confirmation is instant and super precise
* CDAF is super precise. I shoot 30/f2 open and 50/f2.8 Macro open with very critical focus. CDAF is spot on every single time
* Identical shooting style of Stills and Video!

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Changing to this shooting style has transformed my photography. It is a very different experience, which can be obtained with the very same camera and investing 15 USD in an LCD viewfinder. Pentax did an amazing job that after configuring the camera to suit this shooting mode photography becomes super fluid and intuitive.

Forgot one more benefit: With long tele lenses, you viewfinder image is stabilized!

I hope this is useful to some and brings more joy to your photography

Same story with different angle: Depending on shooting conditions with my old Pentax, I sometimes longed for the 5D with L-Lenses of my friend. In other conditions I longed for the NEX-5 and its great live view implementation ( which I often borrowed with a NEX to K Adapter). Now with this new shooting method both friends long for my camera setup and are considering to swap system.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting

1 upvote

Thanks for sharing that work flow. Finally, with the new LiveView and quality LCDs/AMOLED, etc., we can use our digital DSLRs in many ways like view cameras. The ability to move around the focal point is especially useful. I even remember when Phil Askey questioned if anyone would ever need or want LiveView in a digitgal SLR!

2 upvotes

Dear Gesture,

Thanks for your reply. You can move the focal point around in the optical viewfinder as well, but the covered area in CDAF with Live view is much bigger. Because I shoot wide open and compose many times the subject more to the border, this is very important to me. Focus and recompose already could cause to miss critical focus in such case

The other thing which really shocked me when using the LCD viewfinder was just the shear size. It took me back when shooting medium format. A very large and very convenient to view viewfinder with a very high eye point is incredible conducive to better pictures!

0 upvotes

Cons: No dedicated movie shooting button

Seriously?

34 upvotes

This movie button comment sucks.

1 upvote

Wow, everyone's so sensitive about the movie button comment, which we also made about the K-5. If we didn't mention it those wanting one would be upset we didnt mention it. Glad you don't think it's a con. Just because we say it's a con doesn't mean you can't think for yourself and disagree. Or would you rather we qualify every statement with, 'but some might disagree'?

8 upvotes

yep you p1ssed us of twice, so that makes it even worse ;)

5 upvotes

Shawn, thanks for following along with the comments. Value-added.

5 upvotes

Professional Shooting = Movie Button irrelevant

When shooting professionally you know you are going to shoot many clips. You set your mode dial to movie once and then you shoot away. Great workflow and a dedicated movie button could be even less useful, as it is in a less convenient position

Street / Family Shooting = Lack of movie button could miss shot

In street shooting / family shooting where your default mode is shooting stills, the lack of the movie button could make you miss the shot. If you suddenly see a scene unfolding, you might only have a second to start capturing it. It will take you two to set mode dial to movie mode and then commence shooting. Pentax cameras are squarely aimed at street and family photography. The lack of movie button for this application is indeed surprising. Or at least the capability to assign another button to this function is even more surprising.

Firmware fix: They should offer to assign Movie Button to Green button!

0 upvotes

Studio shots illustrate Nikon D7100 image issues. It has higher resolution than the Pentax, but in some of the segments of the scene, the Nikon shows what looks like chromatic aberration on bright-dark edges and artifacts that add fake detail. In the RAW studio scene, at 100 ISO, look at the brush on the left, the back end of the Volkswagen, and in the Arabian sea on the globe. Of the four default cameras, the Nikon displays some weird things; jagged lines, cross-thatched lines. The Pentax images are un-artifacted. Same with the Olympus and Canon. I thought at first the artifacts were screen-related, but they show up in prints.

1 upvote

Remember that DPR are using Adobe Camera RAW which is not exactly renowned for producing good quality results with some cameras. What you're seeing are issues with ACR - not the D7100. NX2 should be used to get the best from Nikons.

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

The fake details you mention are due to the D7100's lack of an AA filter. They should look similar to what you see from the K-5 IIS, only they'll occur at different pattern frequencies due to the higher resolution.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

That's probably the case. I can see them in the D800E shots, but not nearly as noticeably. Something about the detail in those three areas matches up (I guess) with the pixel-pitch of the D7100.

0 upvotes

"The fake details you mention are due to the D7100's lack of an AA filter. They should look similar to what you see from the K-5 IIS, only they'll occur at different pattern frequencies due to the higher resolution."

Yep which is why I think this fad of removing the AA filter will go away once everyone realizes moire is not the only artifact or potential consequence you get from not having the filter.

0 upvotes

I realize this is an updated camera, but the review felt too cut-and-pasted. Several places (one of the most obvious being the 'menus' page) talk about changes from the K-7 to the K-5, which do still largely apply to the K-5II, but cold use a little rewriting to make it clear what was unchanged from the K-5. Comparisons with the K-r also seem weird, as updated comparisons with the K-30 would be more useful and take no more than a few minutes to do. I realize you chose to leave some of the review alone as much of the camera is unchanged, but it's a little too obvious. I do love the bits on cool features built into the sensor shift system. The Astrotracer feature is very nice for those of us who might like to do a bit of astrophotography without having to buy expensive gear.

5 upvotes

"PentaRichoh" like Nikon D800E
lol :)

0 upvotes

??

1 upvote


Just Posted: Nikon D7100 in-depth review Apr 26, 2013	Pentax updates firmware for K-5 II/IIs DSLRs and Q mirrorless camera Apr 19, 2013	Review in progress: Pentax K-5 II and K-5 II S Apr 16, 2013	Pentax posts firmware updates for K-5, K-5 II, K-5 IIs, K-30, K-01 and K-r Jan 31, 2013

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Just Posted: Pentax K-5 II / K-5 IIS Review

Pentax K-5 II

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