Previous news story    Next news story

Photoshop CC: Adobe responds to reaction

By dpreview staff on May 8, 2013 at 00:09 GMT

Yesterday's announcement by Adobe that it will cease 'perpetual license' sales of Photoshop and its Creative Suite counterparts has generated considerable backlash here on dpreview and across the web. With such a significant change in store, we spoke today with Adobe VP of Creative Solutions, Winston Hendrickson and Bryan O'Neill Hughes, Senior Product Manager for Photoshop for Adobe's response to the uproar.

At the conclusion of the interview, we've put together a brief set of FAQs regarding Adobe's Creative Cloud announcement.

Winston Hendrickson, VP of Creative Solutions, Adobe Systems, Inc.

Q&A with Adobe VP of Creative Solutions, Winston Hendrickson

Were you expecting such a negative response from the photographic community?

We expected a higher degree of this type of reaction from the hobbyist photographic community because currently there's not a lot of photography-specific value in our subscription products. That's why we've taken the unusual steps of Tom Hogarty's appearance on The Grid [a Scott Kelby webisode] showing potential Lightroom CC features and the Photoshop Sneak Peek where we showed new features like Camera Shake reduction.

Is a subscription model less prone to piracy?

While service options that connect to our servers are inherently less prone to piracy, once a user downloads software to their computer the piracy threat is the same as for our perpetual products.

The reason behind the subscription-only move is the logistics of supporting two sets of software. The last 12 months of development was brutal. And there were results we were not happy with. We have decided to focus on the CC products.

As far as the future of CS applications, in his Adobe MAX keynote, David Wadhwani said, 'We have no plans' to continue perpetual licenses. We are not ruling that out in the future.

How do you justify the price increase to photographers?

Last year we actually cut the price of Lightroom in half in order to open it up to a broader market of photographers.

What assurances can our readers have that Lightroom will not become a subscription-only option?

[Bryan O'Neil Hughes] Lightroom is for photographers. And the Lightroom team is very aware of the reaction by photographers to Photoshop CC. We don't have plans to make Lightroom a subscription-only option but we do envision added functionality for CC members using Lightroom.

What support can CS6 users expect?

Barring something unforeseen from Apple and Microsoft, we plan to update Photoshop CS6 for the next Mac and Windows operating system releases. Once Camera Raw 8 is completed for Photoshop CC, we are going to release a version of it for CS6 that includes any new camera support but without any of the new CC tools and features.

In addition, DNG Converter will remain a free option to convert new Raw file formats for use in older versions of Photoshop.

What happens to Photoshop CC and my files if I cancel my subscription?

We do not delete any files or software from your computer. You will not be able to use the software but the files you've created and saved on your hard drive are left intact. And you don't need a valid license or Internet connection to uninstall the software.

What can you say to users concerned that a subscription model removes their option to at least stick with an older version of software if they no longer want to continue paying for it?

That's the trade-off for the benefits of a continuously updated application. At the time you decide to stop paying for it, yes you lose access, but after, say 12 months, you've ended up with a different product than the one you subscribed to, because of the new features that have been added. And for existing perpetual users, Photoshop CS can co-exist alongside and independently from Photoshop CC.

One final point I'd like to address is the misconception that you have to be continuously connected to the Internet to use a CC application. Monthly subscribers can go for as long as 30 days without connecting to the Internet for license validation. Users with an annual commitment can go for as long as 99 days.

Reader FAQs 

Below, the editorial staff at dpreview have compiled answers to some of the most commonly asked questions our readers have asked since Adobe's announcement. The explanations here are culled from information Adobe has posted online since the announcement of the Creative Cloud membership.

What is CC?

Adobe has rebranded its upcoming versions of applications with the 'CC' (Creative Cloud) moniker. They will be made available on June 17. A month-to-month or discounted annual CC subscription gives you access to all of the Adobe Creative Suite titles, including Photoshop, Lightroom, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Premiere and After Effects. You can see a full list of the available software here.

Why am I being forced to work in the 'cloud'?

The simple answer is that you're not. Once you've subscribed, you still download Photoshop and install it on your preferred hard drive. You can open, edit and save files locally just as you would in CS6. While Adobe is touting the connectivity and collaborative features of its CC applications, and providing 20GB of online storage, you can choose not to take advantage of these services.

You will need an Internet connection to download, install and license the software, of course. You will also be asked to connect to the web periodically in order to validate the license. At launch, annual subscribers will be able to use the products for 99 consecutive days while offline. Eventually, this offline ability will be extended to 180 consecutive days without Internet access.

I'll never use Dreamweaver or InDesign. Can I subscribe just to Photoshop?

Yes. Adobe is offering a special introductory price for CS3 and later owners of $9.99 per month for the first 12 months. The regular price for a Photoshop CC-only subscription is $19.99 per month with an annual commitment and $29.99 per month for the ability to cancel at any time. You should also know that Photoshop CC includes all of the additional features and functionality that was limited to Photoshop Extended in CS versions.

What happens to ACR support for CS6?

As Tom Hogarty states on Adobe's Lightroom blog, CS6 users will gain the camera compatibility updates set to arrive on June 17 in ACR 8. These updates, however, will not include any of the new features seen in the Photoshop CC demo or Lightroom 5 Beta release, such as the Upright tool, Advanced Healing Brush or Radial Gradient Filter. Adobe is not providing a timeline for how long new camera support will continue for the ACR version of Photoshop CS6.

Can I still buy Lightroom?

Yes. Lightroom, while available as part of the Creative Cloud bundle, can still be purchased as a standalone piece of software at $149 for new users and $79 for owners of any previous version. Adobe Acrobat can be purchased as a standalone title as well.

Can I still buy Photoshop CS6?

Photoshop CS6 is still currently available for a downloadable purchase here on Adobe's site.

Do I really need Photoshop?

One thing that Adobe's move has certainly done is make many photographers ask themselves whether they need all, or even a majority of tools Photoshop currently offers. Indeed, whenever we write about newly announced Photoshop features, there's always a segment of users who claim the features are of no use to them and that they'll happily stick with a previous version. And many, of course have adopted a 'skip every other upgrade' policy.

For users working primarily with Raw files, the current version of Lightroom offers a vast majority of the tools that users producing traditional photographic output require. Indeed, unless you're creating composite images or performing fashion/beauty retouching, we'd argue most Lightroom users are making far fewer trips to Photoshop than they did in previous versions.

And if your image editing needs are limited to exposure and contrast adjustments to 8-bit files there's Photoshop Elements, which is available as a standalone purchase for $99.

Comments

Total comments: 1879
12345
Dan Clark
By Dan Clark (10 months ago)

Right now, many users (including me) are getting corruption and installation mailed messages when they try to update their CC apps. While I understand that Adobe has a major problems supporting all of their products and that a subscription is probably the best option...

It is 1) a subscription service and 2) premium-priced. As a subscription service, I expect it to be available when I want to use. When the subscription service fails, they are in violation of their contract to provide me with that service. As a premium-priced service, I expect premium support. I'm not getting that.

Going forward, I'm looking for options to get rid of my CC service. CC is just not worth the hassle and expense. There are several other products that meet most of my needs better.

Dan.

2 upvotes
Copyrightimage
By Copyrightimage (10 months ago)

Agree or disagree with Adobe licensing the truth of the matter is that Photoshop CC is Photoshop CS6 with a different splash screen and a shake filter that gives usable results sometimes.

The other changes are available in the (current) perpetual licence of Lightroom 5.

0 upvotes
Russ Reinberg
By Russ Reinberg (10 months ago)

Notice how he weasels out of a directly answering some questions and twists his response? He is a good little employee. I've never been fond of Adobe as a corporation and their decision to charge for things we don't need exemplifies what I dislike.

The only way to stop such abuse is for EVERYBODY to boycott their products and we know that will never happen.

2 upvotes
juzzy
By juzzy (10 months ago)

I'm predicting a revenue gap at Adobe as people cling to non-cloud (grounded?) versions. Peoples views may change over time, but will probably take longer than adobe would like. Will be watching adobe share price with keen interest.

0 upvotes
chris1945
By chris1945 (10 months ago)

This is a marketing blunder. Adobe deserve to be rewarded by people moving their support elsewhere. Even if they move back to having standalone Photoshop. They have lost the trust of many people.

1 upvote
Russell Welch
By Russell Welch (10 months ago)

So I am wary of the CC and the Cloud, I bought a subscription and uploaded some files to the Cloud, today I tried to access these files only to find that the Cloud was unavailable due to updates! I received no notice that this was to occur, lucky for me it was only a test, but in real life it could have seriously impacted my work.

0 upvotes
GD Potash
By GD Potash (11 months ago)

I'm a crime scene investigator, and we use photoshop quite a bit. Unfortunately, Adobe's move will alienate the law enforcement community for one key reason:

We live on grant money, for the most part. We can pay the cost of software, but we may only be able to upgrade every few (3-5) years, when new grant money is available. Subscriptions are death to us simply because we may not have enough money in the budget to continue to AFFORD it after the grant period is up. Grant money may pay for purchase of a CS6 perpetual license, but the subscription cost may eat up 10% or more of a unit's consumables budget.

I'll be presenting on photography at this year's IAI conference in Providence, RI, and I'm modifying my presentation to address Adobe's folly (and discuss alternatives to PS in the forensic community).

0 upvotes
nathansmith
By nathansmith (10 months ago)

Get Lightroom 5. I can't imagine anything a crime scene investigator would need to do in CS6 that can't be done in LR5.

0 upvotes
Wolphin
By Wolphin (9 months ago)

Maybe look at ArcSoft? Their Photo Studio will not only open RAW shots from the camera but also Photoshop PSD files, including layers!

0 upvotes
w0lvi
By w0lvi (11 months ago)

Not happy. I will stick to CS6 it meets all my needs as photographer & videographer. I do not want to pay a monthly as it will create problems when times are bad & you will no longer be able to open PSD files created by CC version. I think the public will decide. Don't bother & Adobe will go back to old model.

2 upvotes
danny2013
By danny2013 (11 months ago)

Am I the only one that likes the new subscription model? It was hard to justify 700 dollars for PS. But 20 dollars a month and easy management of the software (ability to install and active on any computer) is pretty good imo.

1 upvote
Michel J
By Michel J (11 months ago)

danny2013 wrote: "20 dollars a month"

Maybe this would be nice to YOU now, but:

Give an inch to the Clouds Computing farm industry he'll take a miles, for ever, with no return.

That would app_ear sooner or later if we don't care!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
SkimMilk
By SkimMilk (11 months ago)

During good times, $20 a month may seem very affordable. But during bad times, this is going to be a concern, especially when folks cut back on spending as well. Imagine it's the down period and you can hardly get a job, how long can you pay the monthly fee and still feel comfortable about it? Don't forget that the monthly fee figure is subject to changes as and when Adobe feels like it. :(
And do remember: the more licenses a business requires, the more you pay.

With off the shelve software, you can carry on with business without this worry.

0 upvotes
GD Potash
By GD Potash (11 months ago)

Hmmm... I upgrade every three years, at $650.00 for PS. With CC, I'm spending $720.00 with annual subscription (for monthly, $1080.00). CC is a LOT more expensive for me, especially since I'm poor.

2 upvotes
stevepow
By stevepow (10 months ago)

I don't get how it is a good deal. The upgrade from CS5 to CS6 is $199. If upgrades are every 18 months generally, then that's $12/month over time. Even if upgrades were yearly it still only amounts to $16/mo.

What's worse is that Lightroom (and plugins) actually does meet most of my needs 90% of the time. So for an occasional-use tool, paying $20/month will just be a nagging bad taste in my mouth. Paying $200 for a decent upgrade and forgetting about it is a lot easier for me to swallow. I suspect this is a great opportunity for Adobe's more worthy competitors - let's hope someone steps up to the plate and maybe they already have and this will shine a light on them.

For me this will be like SmugMug - they poked me and got my attention and caused me to look around at their competitors - and now I am no longer their customer. Giving customers a reason to shop competition is never a great business plan.

Comment edited 53 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
HawaiiVolcanoes
By HawaiiVolcanoes (10 months ago)

You obviously work for Adobe because no rational person would hold this opinion.

2 upvotes
sjung
By sjung (11 months ago)

If Adobe wants to be greedy, that's their right, but they must face the consequences. Let the market decide what’s best…

When online newspaper companies started charging a subscription for their content, people voted by going elsewhere. The same thing will happen here.

People that don't want to pay will find alternatives that are cheaper. As more people take this route, Adobe may realize they made a "big" mistake, but then it will be too late. Those customers may not come back even if Adobe offers a perpetual license again.

If Adobe wants to make continuous improvements to their software, great, but don't penalize people with no software. If people want to keep what they have, make then pay a software price or whatever to buy the software in its current state. That way, Adobe can roll out updates to those that want the latest and greatest and those want to exit can keep what they want.... Make it a win-win scenario instead of a win-lose proposition...

1 upvote
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

An Australian newspaper's report on Adobe CC. The conclusion: "As an amateur photographer, are you ready to sign up for a year's subscription at $600 to use Photoshop? We thought not."

http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/cameras/monopoly-money-20130522-2jzmi.html

3 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (11 months ago)

And as has been pointed out many times, the yearly subscription price for only PhotoShop is $240.

Look I made this $600 mistake more than a week ago when this Adobe idiocy was first announced, but this point about $20 per month point has been clear for while now.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
nathansmith
By nathansmith (10 months ago)

Real amateurs can use Elements. Advanced amateurs and pros can use Lightroom. And if you need Photoshop, Photoshop CC, if you own CS6, is less than $120 first year, and less than $240 after that.

0 upvotes
ianchristy
By ianchristy (11 months ago)

Offering lightroom as a solution to folks that use Photoshop as a tool for more than adjusting contrast or hues is a cop out. Photoshop is used by restoration folks who need access to brushes and other manipulators to restore trashed old snaps, or to fix issues (revisionist, creative, or otherwise) from the on the day event. And artists outside of film and tv use photoshop extensively for creating maps, painting color into scanned illustrations, and a myriad other things that Adobe seems hellbent on alienating and / or cutting out of their user base all together.

Abode, please realize that you stopped being indispensable when you started the relentless kitchen sink approach to functionality with CS5.

And please stop treating your long time users like potential criminals or easily dismissed hobbyists. There more of your foundational support base than you think, and losing them will pave a direct road to bankruptcy or cheap stock hostile takeover.

3 upvotes
Michel J
By Michel J (11 months ago)

Yes, btw it's too late to my side. I already switch.

2 upvotes
DanLudlow
By DanLudlow (11 months ago)

They either don't understand their customers, or don't want to understand their customers, and their needs. I suspect that in "the ivory tower" of Adobe management, they don't even know who their customers are.

Photoshop is a superb tool, so is Lightroom but they are different. Complimentary, but one can't replace the other in all areas. A price reduction in Lightroom was to sell it to more photographers, not to reduce Photoshop customers. so why the link delivered like the lame excuse it appears?

Basically Adobe seeks further riches by milking what it has harder and has set a price for single app (photoshop) at a price that is double what the average enthusiast has been paying, and for loss of perpetual licence too.

The price is far too high.

1 upvote
Sarcasmo
By Sarcasmo (11 months ago)

If I buy a monthly subscription I can go offline for 30 days, but if I buy an annual subscription I can only go offline for 100 days? Why not 365 days? What am I missing? If I've purchased a 12-month license, why do I need to validate that within 12 months?

"One final point I'd like to address is the misconception that you have to be continuously connected to the Internet to use a CC application. Monthly subscribers can go for as long as 30 days without connecting to the Internet for license validation. Users with an annual commitment can go for as long as 99 days."

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
stevepow
By stevepow (10 months ago)

Does anyone actually stay disconnected from the Internet for 30 days anymore? I'm sure there are some people - but I doubt they are reading and posting on on-line forums. Maybe there is some odd scenario I'm not thinking of - probably odd and exciting!

0 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

As Mr Hurt has pointed out...I have commented a lot on this subject. I have no connection with Adobe but I feel it is always helpful to address balance and there are always two sides to a story.

If I have offended anyone with my comments I apologise that was not my intent. No the moderators have not had a word and but yes I am influenced by Mr Hurt. I have reflected and realise that I spent far too much time on the forum. Dpreview used to be a balanced site where many of well known photographers appeared to help us on our way. Not surprising they have left...I am not famous or the best photographer in the world so that doesn't apply to me. I have tried to share my experience in an honest way...I can deal with a differing view but frankly I have offered my opinion FWIW and will no doubt appear again sometime. Cheers

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
danny2013
By danny2013 (11 months ago)

I am blown away by peoples response to the subscription model. Comsumers can often be spoiled brats. I haven't seen this much rage since netflix changed its subscription model. People need some perspective

0 upvotes
TheEye
By TheEye (11 months ago)

Adobe is trying to boil the frog.

3 upvotes
Alternative Energy Photography

Rental Only:

Uhaul...
Ryder...
Rug Doctor (hey, they work GREAT!)...

Your local Home Depot's rental counter where you can get a cement mixer or rototiller at the drop of a hat...

Public Library
DirecTV's DVR
Adobe

Only the last two require ongoing subscriptions. Well, the library too, since that one comes out of your property taxes.

Speaking of which...you would do well to watch out for the Public Library. That sweet old lady is still working there. She's slow but effective. She'll take 23 years to track you down and then she'll send you a bill for $8,523 (and 56 cents, dammit!) for that old "Hardy Boys" or "Babe Ruth" book you checked out when you were 12.

It doesn't matter if you returned it week late and paid the 50 cent fine in 1974. The computer says you owe. No appeals for the guilty. She's ready to put you out of your house! She's gone after many fellas bigger, stronger, and richer than you and she wins every time because "it's for the children!"

0 upvotes
Alternative Energy Photography

I forgot "Rent to Own" joints. Seedy and slimy. I think I need a shower just having typed about them.

0 upvotes
tkrewson
By tkrewson (11 months ago)

This is the first crack I have seen in Adobe's plans: "As far as the future of CS applications, in his Adobe MAX keynote, David Wadhwani said, 'We have no plans' to continue perpetual licenses. We are not ruling that out in the future." Keep the pressure on. Don't buy CC ; and If you want to; sign this petition - (so far at 21K against CC):

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

2 upvotes
Tommyxxq
By Tommyxxq (11 months ago)

At first I thought I would go along, but I can't rely on software that could be unavailable at some Adobe whim. Adobe is changing their business model to rental, only, and they will further crush their competition with instant updates. The customer rental fees supports their new strategy with price increases that go up and up as competition falls by the wayside. I'm looking for an alternative to Lightroom right now because it's next. Question, will they figure out a way to legally remove CS6 and every single pervious update from 3.0 from my computer. .

1 upvote
Michel J
By Michel J (11 months ago)

Microsoft already do that with Word 6 (Mac version, what destroyed some part of the source code of the Word 5 version). Adobe do that by planed obsolescence (PostScript printers, and so on), and Apple with iTunes 4.0 Mac (the next version removed the stream feature without any warning).

Adobe CC is a big "improvement", because they can do that on the fly, without your consent

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
David OCallaghan
By David OCallaghan (11 months ago)

We work in a university and Photoshop is an integral part of our photography module. With this new pricing structure, even with bulk and education discounts, it will make Photoshop prohibitively more expensive for us in the education sector, particular in this day of cutbacks and budget tightening.
It is very likely that we will be forced to change to an alternative package and students will then follow suite, using whatever package we use as part of our class instruction. The knock on effect of this is that a large co-hort of people will migrate to alternatives, using whatever software is demonstrated to them in class. If we do not teach Photoshop as part of our photography module, then we will not be offering support for it to students as we will no longer be familiar with its mechanisms.
Certainly, for us in the education sector, this is a retrograde step.

2 upvotes
Oreilly Hurt
By Oreilly Hurt (11 months ago)

Petition to rid this form of Walter. I cannot go through all of the comments in this form but it is obvious to me and to others that the "Walter" posts are indeed Adobe posts. Read through this first section of posts to verify this fact. If any of you can stand to go through the rest of the posts and refute the Walter posts as you see fit I think you'll do all of us a service as the "Walter" posts are all intended to put us to sleep with respect to Adobe's outrageous proposition.

O'reilly Hurt

0 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

I have no connection to Adobe..... just a satisfied customer. My reason for posting is to address some balance... Adobe are by no means perfect but they have created an industry standard in photography that has helped many improve the standard of their photography. Many continue to make a living by using this very professional software and I believe that Adobe is continuing to strive to improve what they do and keep pace with an ever changing photographic world. Give credit where it is due ..so many just spend their time slamming companies.. Nikon and Canon get it on every new camera..few months later they realise how good the product is.

Thank you for raising a greater awareness to my posts..I have tried to be honest and stick to the facts. My view is from a professional perspective in photography of over 30 years and although I feel uneasy about a subscription approach I am optimistic that the benefits will outweigh. Yes of course they will make mistakes...but then who doesn't?...

0 upvotes
exp0sed
By exp0sed (11 months ago)

What makes me angry is that Adobe wants to dictate me when I should spend my money on them and what's important for me. It's about control. Adobe basically wants to take that away from me.
I alone decide if the updates are significant to ME and worth paying for an upgrade. I don't care if some executives think that I should pay for some new gimmicks I don't need.
Renting it on a monthly basis is not an option for this price and frankly is mostly not feasible.
Often I only need Photoshop and Illustrator only a few days a month and Dreamweaver all the time which means I end up paying all the time.
Also not so important to me at the moment, I really don't like to be forced online, even only once a month. It's not that I usually can't do it, it's the principle!
I'm not saying Adobe doesn't do good software, with flaws like of course, but they're shamelessly using their market position.

0 upvotes
Oreilly Hurt
By Oreilly Hurt (11 months ago)

Ok,

No, no, no, these industry articles whereby the interviewer and interviewee both pretend the subject is not outrageous will never cease.

Bottom line is that there are not enough "professional photogs" out there to support the new Adobe subscription based model. It will take a year or so, but having looked at the alternatives on Mac and Windows platforms and seen the reaction to date, most people welcome a reason to ditch Adobe. Too many mind blowing options. For one person to become familiar with all of the options available in Adobe Creative Suite is a full time job that needs to be separated between ten people to begin with. This leaves precious little time for these people to actually produce anything since their time is occupied by discovering new features. So who would not welcome the opportunity to use different applications by competing vendors? And the interest shown so far tells me that the race is on to replace Adobe.

1 upvote
TimR-Niagara
By TimR-Niagara (11 months ago)

"there's not a lot of photography-specific value in our subscription products" ... BULLS*T.. Winston onlys smells money and cares only for business and MONEY... He knows diddly squat about photography

0 upvotes
Chaz F
By Chaz F (11 months ago)

I have not read down thru the chain of comments related to this subject so forgive me if I am bringing up some previously discussed thought. However, has anyone noticed that the fine folks at Abode have withdrawn all PS CS6 upgrade options? If you have an older version of PS and want to upgrade to the latest PS version prior to CC, you are out of luck. However, you can still acquire a full PS CS6 version for 2 or 3 times the upgrade price. Isn't that a sweet way to treat your existing customer base?

I will never buy an Adobe product again even if they bring back the perpetual license for PS.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
steve4852
By steve4852 (11 months ago)

I do not know if this has been answered before but if you got some third party software for cc would that then be unusable if you stopped subscribbing

0 upvotes
Michel J
By Michel J (11 months ago)

... oh my: after the Adobe PostScript Trap,
... "welcome" to the Adobe Cloud Trap !

All that seems to be more a free advertising for Adobe (showing prices, detailed services, and so on...) than a 'response to reaction'.

Anyway, the Poll flows deep this 'clouds computing trap' paradigm by a 85% (whatever his price would be). What is a very good news for the rest of us....

Btw CC, also means Captives Consummers, AND MUCH MORE MONEY FOR ADOBE but now you know: don't go down, go down to the "General Clouds".

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
birdbrain
By birdbrain (11 months ago)

Does not bode well.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/17/adobe_creative_cloud_problem/

Also they seem to have stuck their head in the ground and won't talk about it.

0 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

http://9to5mac.com/2013/04/23/apples-icloud-servers-once-again-experiencing-major-outages-for-a-growing-number-of-users/

Teething problems..everyone has them..... If Adobe responded to every Tom Dick or Harry they would never get the problem fixed...relax....go take some photographs . I wonder how many rockets crashed before man got to the moon...:) I wonder how smooth google glasses will work.....:)

0 upvotes
Oreilly Hurt
By Oreilly Hurt (11 months ago)

Walter, you are an Adobe stooge. You post over and over again the same mantra in a smooth "it's okay to mess me over tone". I would never want you in my company.

2 upvotes
ewelch
By ewelch (11 months ago)

Absolute bunk. Photoshop is a modular piece of software, they do not have to keep two code bases. They could simply add a subscription-checking plug-in to the subscription version.

There's no reason they can't give perpetual license owners the same updates. They simply choose not to because they are trying to make Wall Street happy with a more consistent revenue stream. They don't care about users any more. They only care about the bottom line.

As for Lightroom, they talk about how those who get it via subscription will get more features. That's exactly what they said about Photoshop last year. Sad to know I was such a supporter of Adobe for years. Now I'm rewarded with paying more for Photoshop.

4 upvotes
Timmbits
By Timmbits (11 months ago)

The adobe execs attended a seminar that was sponsored by the online storage and server farm industry, convincing them that this is the future.
They cited as a case study, Autodesk, which is headed this way... but there is a huge difference between renting $5000 CAD software, and something mainstream like adobe products.
This move is quite naïve, and quite frankly, stupid.
I predict that some of Adobe's upper management won't be around anymore next year... and if they still are, it'll only if they own the company, but nevertheless less rich as a result of their move.

6 upvotes
Class Four
By Class Four (11 months ago)

I hope someone is fired. I find this move outrageous and will under no circumstances be participating. There's a grand they won't be getting.

1 upvote
stevez
By stevez (11 months ago)

It would not surprise me if Adobe rescinds their CC only policy after all the negative feedback. In the meantime they will have generated lots of cash flow with all the outright purchases of PS CS6.

0 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

Feedback will have no effect. Adobe will listen to those who put up...

If Adobe rescind they will honour the contract or compensate. no brainer just over a hundred bucks for the first year year... all the latest features. If they rescind I will probably end up with the latest version if not they will come out with CS8 and I will upgrade in the normal way. The cost will not be higher than an upgrade now.

Most professional photographers earn...... at least $50./hour.... two or three hours gets you the subscription....why on earth would anyone want to spend several days learning new software and risk an inferior approach to their clients...for the pro it is a no brainer. They will be the ones who "put up" and they will be the ones who enjoy all that the dedicated software designers who actually love photography offer.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Oreilly Hurt
By Oreilly Hurt (11 months ago)

Wow, such a monetary minimalist you are. Renting the artwork you create from Adobe will cost much more than that. I hope you are right for Adobe's sake that only professional photogs will be required to keep Adobe in business; otherwise, you perhaps ought to think about alternative software to keep your business flush, and do think about your inability to edit your work if the photogs are not enough to keep Adobe flush since without Adobe to renew your license every month all your artwork will be inaccessible.

0 upvotes
Anysia
By Anysia (11 months ago)

It's bad enough that via geo-blocking I got charged twice as much for my upgrade to CS6E, than it cost me to buy CS3E and CS5E, because I'm living in Australia now, but not this? The total cost for me over 12 yrs was $1200. "Renting" their software over the same amount of time, *IF* they don't increase their rates, will be $4800. Tell me again, with a straight face, how this is cost effective for me?

I have Corel PSPX5, and have been re-familiarizing myself with it. Many plugins for Adobe work with it. True, not all of them, but enough to get me, and others, by.

6 upvotes
Timmbits
By Timmbits (11 months ago)

In the future, you may be able to use a firefox add-on called Proxmate. It is used to view video content where such content is blocked, so they can't know where you're physically located, and may be effective for you.

1 upvote
Reactive
By Reactive (11 months ago)

It is without ANY doubt that "CC" stands for "Cash Cow". The Wikipedia definition is this:

"Cash cow:
In business, a cash cow is a product or a business unit that generates unusually high profit margins: so high that it is responsible for a large amount of a company's operating profit. This profit far exceeds the amount necessary to maintain the cash cow business, and the excess is used by the business for other purposes."

I guess the 'other purposes' means, in this case, Adobe paying their executives huge salaries to complain about difficult life is.

6 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

How can it be a cash cow when everybody is being proactive and leaving.... Give us some financial figures to back up your statement ...

0 upvotes
Mahmoud Mousef
By Mahmoud Mousef (11 months ago)

Credit Card would work too ;)

0 upvotes
Oreilly Hurt
By Oreilly Hurt (11 months ago)

Walter,

are you an Adobe Graphic implant?

3 upvotes
SkimMilk
By SkimMilk (11 months ago)

As a hobbyist, buying a piece of software is already considered a luxury. I own Elements, LR4, and I bought CS6 during the $400 discount (from Adobe) thru Adorama last year. I paid $250 for it and I get to own the license, and can use it anytime and anywhere I want.

With CC, everything changes. Monthly activation is going to be a hassle. If I were traveling, and happen to hit the activation period, full-stop! That's it. I'll have to get to somewhere with internet connection and get it activated again. That's a hassle! And then comes the monthly rental!
1st year is pro-rated, how about going forward? How much will that cost?

This model is very effective for small or new business startups, as it reduces the initial investment cost. However, if it's a large business that requires multiple licenses, it's gonna hurt them too!

I'm going to stick to CS6 til it 'dies'. And I don't believe I will be purchasing anymore Adobe software (including LR) until the model changes.

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

Unless you are on an extended trip of 30 plus days just connect before you go. If you happen to be longer use your current CS6 version for the remaining days. Frankly you would have to be in a pretty remote place to not get an internet connection.I regularly shoot in Africa with no problem. If you are that remote you probably have no electricity to charge your computer/ipad/camera...if you are on a professional shoot you will have a generator and a satellite connection....so you can send the pictures to your client. Too many "what if's" can make it hard to sleep at night. If I were you I would just continue with CS6 which will be good for several years and upgrade to LR5 if you change cameras and need a current raw convertor.

Comment edited 53 seconds after posting
1 upvote
SkimMilk
By SkimMilk (11 months ago)

From what I gather, the current activation model doesn't work like you described: "connect before you go". Instead, the timer runs out every 30 days on it's own. This means you have to know when was the last activation date, and 30 days after that, you will need internet access to achieve that.

And like I stated, I am a hobbyist, I don't shoot professionally. I won't pay to have generators and satellite connections. I just want to use my laptop and software anywhere I am and be able to continue working on the images without having the sudden"oops, hit activation period, you cannot launch the s/w til you get yourself re-activated" problem.

I will be sticking to CS6 like I stated, and won't be upgrading to LR5 since the future is still unknown and the new features aren't really a must have for me.

0 upvotes
Oreilly Hurt
By Oreilly Hurt (11 months ago)

Walter,

What are you doing? You are now taking photographs in Africa as a result of SkimMilk shooting in Africa? Have you no shame? Please get off this board as you've outstayed your credibility.

1 upvote
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

If I have got the activation 30 day model wrong...sorry. That would indeed make it more difficult. Anyone else know how this is going to work in practise? Is the reactivation instant as soon as you connect to the internet?

0 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

Sorry if I got it wrong.....

Just checked Adobe say..."You will need to be online when you install and license your software. If you have an annual membership, you'll be asked to connect to the web to validate your software licenses every 30 days. However, you'll be able to use products for 3 months (99 days) even if you're offline. "

As for Africa I take professional photographs for a charity to raise awareness of the terrible conditions of many who live in displacement camps...I do that for no income.

2 upvotes
Stan Burman
By Stan Burman (11 months ago)

What an arrogant crock.

1 upvote
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

Yesterday I installed the CS6 upgrade. Installation went without issues. The CS6 seems to be faster than CS5, so it is an added bonus.
What I noticed though is that CS5 is still on th ecomputer and works as well. Question: can I uninstall CS5 without affecting CS6?

0 upvotes
AshMills
By AshMills (11 months ago)

Yes.

0 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

Do I have to deactivate CS5 first?

0 upvotes
frank200
By frank200 (11 months ago)

well i guess serif is a good alternative

http://www.serif.com/photoplus/

0 upvotes
deltaskyking
By deltaskyking (11 months ago)

I was walking down the street the other day and I saw something interesting and I decided to take a photo of it. After turning on my Sony NEX-7 I got the following message on the screen: "Access to this Camera has been denied, please contact Subscription Services!" What the ....! Worse yet is that I was unable to download from the camera any images I'd already taken.

After rushing home I contacted Subscription Services, or "SS", whereupon they informed me that the $1200 camera that I bought a year ago now will not function without a monthly subscription fee! First Adobe and now Sony?! I hastened to my closet where my Canon and Nikon gear were vaporizing, apparently because I had failed to pay a continuing fee to those companies as well!

I woke up in a start! It was only a dream - or was it? Borrowing a theme from Apples' 1984 commercial, we need the hammer wielding athlete to come crashing in and hurl her hammer at the "Orwellian" face of Adobe! NO SOFTWARE FOR RENT! EVER!

5 upvotes
todds
By todds (11 months ago)

I finally figured out what CC stands for

Continuous Charge.

3 upvotes
Greg Henry
By Greg Henry (11 months ago)

Corel is actually responding fairly quickly to this now. Here's their new ad to offer discounts to CS users...

http://www.corel.com/corel/pages/index.jsp?pgid=14900014

While Paint Shop Pro in particular may not be QUITE equal to Photoshop in all ways, in a few other ways, it's actually better. Folks should at least give it a try. I think we all agree that relatively few folks actually use ALL of the features in Photoshop - most don't even know what they all are without some training. PSP might be a good alternative for those who want something more than "Elements" but don't really need Photoshop.

4 upvotes
todds
By todds (11 months ago)

Thanks. I'll check out the demo.

0 upvotes
Willi3
By Willi3 (11 months ago)

As a longtime user of Photoshop and Lightroom I am more than angry. I will never accept this dictat of Adope and it is not a question of money, but I don´´t like the dependence on Adope and I really don´t trust them. I really like CS6 and especially ARC 7. These programms are very useful even for amateur photographers like me. So I am very sorry to say Good bye Adope.

7 upvotes
Toermalijn
By Toermalijn (11 months ago)

Nice name, Adope...Especially when they offer to make file access available after end of subscription. The BIG issue is however how you gonna open those files if you don't have any access to the programs anymore because of ending the subscription.

0 upvotes
I a n
By I a n (11 months ago)

Yeah, I laughed out load at the part about not deleting your files and you will always have access to your files. Totally missing the point that your PS files will be of no value any longer. Take about skipping the most important issue.

0 upvotes
HawaiiVolcanoes
By HawaiiVolcanoes (10 months ago)

WHO IN THE WORLD SAVES THEIR IMAGES AS .PSD FILES??? YOU ALWAYS SAVE them as TIFF files...period

0 upvotes
Don Shreve
By Don Shreve (11 months ago)

I'm a professional commercial photographer of over 30 years. I'll NEVER pay Adobe to Rent MY software. Ever. Period.
I hope this move spurs new innovation on the part of other software developers for the most widely used Photoshop functions.

9 upvotes
Per Inge Oestmoen
By Per Inge Oestmoen (11 months ago)

Nobody should ever accept rental of software. Serious workers need to control the software. That means, the software must meet these requirements:

1. It must be installed and run locally on the user's computer.

2. It must be free from activations or other dependencies that jeopardize the user's continued use, and it must be functional on compatible hardware for an indefinite period of time with no ties at all to the manufacturer after the acquisition of the license.

3. It must be capable of being copied for backup, installed and re-installed with no ties to the manufacturer.

Software that fails to meet these criteria should be rejected.

- Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting
6 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

First good argument and no hysteria Per.

Adobe realise the need for constant access. You can deactivate and download for immediate use at the press of a button, I did it on my laptop. I will not store my files on the cloud but as usual on external hard drives. You only need to connect to the internet once a month. I will still have CS6 on a backup machine. The first year now is cheaper than a CS7 upgrade and the following year will cost less than a half days work . If you are a working professional you will want the best software and not the cheap pixel fix options. You can as many do use Capture One which is an excellent option....

If Adobe mess up big time you can be sure they will do a U turn but I wouldn't hold my breath.

As for other professional software wannabees you might be surprised that they go to subscription as well...they are certainly not going to take a backward step from Adobe.

Time to move on and take some pictures...here's to vertical verticals...;)

0 upvotes
Oreilly Hurt
By Oreilly Hurt (11 months ago)

Walter,

Again, and I don't know how to say it more appropriately, please stop fawning over yourself attempting to smooth over what is obviously a colossal mess up by Adobe. You are the only voice on this form that keeps trying to gain acceptance for Adobe's mess up. As a result we all know that you are Adobe. So please leave now.

2 upvotes
Michel J
By Michel J (11 months ago)

Walter said:
— "[...] You only need to connect to the internet once a month"

... well °_O

0 upvotes
stuartworley
By stuartworley (11 months ago)

FWIW, I think DP is letting Mr. Hendrickson off easy on his responses to their questions. Where's the follow up for details?

Next, have you looked at the two referenced Adobe blog postings? There is little to no response fro the blog author/Adobe. Victoria has answered a couple of questions, but there is still the lack of detail in the responses. Also, I've had a comment awaiting moderation since May 7. And, nothing has been updated since then. Here's what I asked:

Will future features incorporated into ACR for CC (?) also show up in the non-CC LR?

Will the following tools / capabilities be added to the non-CC LR:
selections, masks, layers, pano merge, focus stack merge, HDR, ...

If these features are addressed then there would be little need for CC for the "just photographers" group.

1 upvote
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

I don't see what Adobe can respond to. From the above interview, it is 100% that Adobe predicted the reaction from its userbase, and is prepared to weather the storm, because Adobe saw CC to be more profitable for themselves. Therefore, there will be no response from Adobe. Adobe are waiting for you to leave - as they predicted - and for the core to subscribe to CC.

4 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

I tend to agree with you. They are targeting big business, not small guys like us. That's their busines model.

3 upvotes
Toermalijn
By Toermalijn (11 months ago)

The latest reactions from Adobe don't turn me over to the cloud either. They still beat about the bush and are only talking about making file access possible after quiting subscription. That is NOT the real issue here. That is the fact that you can't use the software anymore to open the files...Id$$ts....

3 upvotes
SgtDave
By SgtDave (11 months ago)

Like most of the posters on here, I am disgusted by the latest antics from Adobe. Where is the loyalty shown to all of the long-time users ??
I have a different perspective on this: PS has been in development for over 20 years and, lets face it, does just about everything that you could wish for apart from jump out and take the shot for you. Adobe must have realised that after the new 'ground-breaking' camera-shake correction capability, there really isn't much more to offer. The lack of significant new features in the future results in fewer users needing to opt for the latest version so what's the alternative? Subscription purchase, of course, to guarantee future steady income for minimum development costs. The cloud is just a diversion - you can use numerous other cloud vendors if you simply must have offsite storage.
If you can really manage without the new goodies offered by CC, why not just stick with CS6 until another vendor comes up with a realistic challenge to PS.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

This is exactly what I think. CS6 is much more powerfull than any photograper needs are. What else can Adobe add? Not much. Hence the switch to subscription service- captive castomer and nice cash flow.

What photograpers need is a "Photoshop" like software with 20% of capabilities of CS6. Just get the right features and we should be right.

I am sure we will see alternatives on the market very soon.

7 upvotes
mremple
By mremple (11 months ago)

There are alternatives. Check out Paint Shop Pro from Corel. Many of the same tools for photo editing, but it only costs about $90. My wife is a professional photographer and has been using it for more than 6 years. I am a video editor and also have used it for at of image editing and graphic design stuff.

3 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

I remember using it when it was JSAC or something like that. I like it though I had to switch to Photoshop as at that time JSAC software was not color space aware and I could not get the colors right. But you are right there are alternatives. With my upgrade to CS6 I am sure I bought myself a few years of time. Though knowing me I will "upgrade" to something shortly ;)

0 upvotes
todds
By todds (11 months ago)

I think people have been saying "what can adobe add now" for many years. They keep finding new features. Or Microsoft comes out with a new OS that the adobe installer won't run in. Or you need the new version of RAW for your new camera. I bought the last couple of upgrades for OS support and for RAW support. Done.

0 upvotes
mremple
By mremple (11 months ago)

PSP X5 definitely has color profile management now and has for many versions. They (Corel) also have RAW processing software called AfterShot Pro which is similar to Lightroom, but only costs about $70.

Just in case anyone is looking for decent alternatives.

0 upvotes
theRBK
By theRBK (11 months ago)

the 'logistics of supporting two sets of software' explanation begs a bit of disbelief... what's stopping them from having a subscription model where after having subscribed for a certain number of months, say 2 years, the user gets to keep using the functionality of the product with no further upgrades to the product... it's still only one product line that requires development, and people get to have some amount of usability... Adobe can have yearly builds of the software up to a calender date, and people who subscribe for a certain number of months to that point get the functionality up to that software build but no further updates... there are many possible consumer-centric possibilities if one wishes to pursue them without having to support the 'logistics of supporting two sets of software'

Comment edited 39 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
Tunkel
By Tunkel (11 months ago)

As a (mostly) hobbyist I find the pricing untenable. If there was a package that included Photoshop AND Lightroom at a reasonable rate I might be persuaded.

However, the current pricing is a non-starter for me.

4 upvotes
markb3699
By markb3699 (11 months ago)

Hendrickson's responses are typically incomplete and corporate sounding from a corporate hack. Saying that they anticipated the negative response from the hobbyist community is patronizing to say the least. A lot of professionals are upset too. Me for one. Charging $240 per year (after the $120 first year) is highway robbery considering I've upgraded every other version in the last 15 years and probably spent $1,200 during that time. Now I'm expected to pay more than triple that amount over the same time span? I won't pay it even though I can afford it just on principle.

5 upvotes
Reactive
By Reactive (11 months ago)

The economic downturn means company accountants everywhere must keep tighter control on their spending, which means upgrading I.T. equipment and software *only* when absolutely necessary, and by making calculated and strategic buying decisions. Adobe's obscene pricing has always made upgrading Adobe applications one of these planned buying decisions. Adobe's subscription idea immediately moves this once fully-controllable I.T. spending decision (and pricing!) entirely into the hands of the supplier. The added consequence that the product they bought actually CEASES TO WORK if payment is not maintained makes it an almost entirely unattractive prospect.

0 upvotes
lbuclk=
By lbuclk= (11 months ago)

My delayed comment on the the company.......hahahahaha to the 3rd power.

1 upvote
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

Anyone out there knows how to upgrade from Photosohop CS5 to CS6?

All I see on Adobe website is upgrade to CC.........it sucks.....

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (11 months ago)

When I looked at the Adobe USA website a couple of days ago it was possible to upgrade from Photoshop CS5 to CS6 for about $200.

Others have reported problems with other Adobe websites--the nonUS versions.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

I just checked a few minutes ago on US site - no luck. Seems like Adobe pulled out CS6 upgrade and is forcing people to use CC.......the more I think bout it the more I am convinced bye bye Adobe!

3 upvotes
Ross Murphy
By Ross Murphy (11 months ago)

i just checked US site and you can upgrade from 5 to 6 for $200, it is there

0 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

Ross,
I checked again and no luck. I went through 5 pages of products and there is no CS5 to CS6 upgrade available. What I am doing wrong? It drives me nuts..

2 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

Nevermind, just found it. But to be honest I have never seen such an unintuitive site. Then again I can understand it, Adobe wants everybody switch to the cloud......or above ;)

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (11 months ago)

KG:

You're right Adobe changed it in the last couple of days (May 14th today), so now I can't find it.

Got a link to what you found, with this behavior by the idiots at Adobe I'm motivated to upgrade my Premiere 5.5.

0 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

I decided yo bite the bullet and upgraded my Photoshop CS5 to CS6 yeasterday for $199 download.
HowaboutRAW, I google the issue issue and found explanation on Adobe forum how to find the upgrade. You need to go to Adobe main page, select BUY, then Photoshop, again BUY and then you get option of FULL version or UPGRADE. I had difficulties finding it the second time. I am convinced Adobe made it for a reason - they want us to subscribe to CC. Good luck finding the upgrade!

Here is the link: http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_software_sl_creativesuite6.html?start=10

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (11 months ago)

Thank you, yes that page used to be easier to find a few days back.

0 upvotes
KG
By KG (11 months ago)

I am just a hobbyist though life was good to me and I can afford good equipment and software. I use my equipment mostly during vacations (3 times a year) plus occasional use. I do own Capture One Pro latest version which I use as a RAW converted and CS5 for editing if needed. I know it is all overkill but I like to have the “best possible”. With Adobe moving to cloud I do not think I will be subscribing to CC. It just makes no sense to me to pay monthly fee and use this service just a few times a year. And with CO Pro getting more sophisticated I will most likely stay with my CS5. And later on may look for a less powerful but traditional photo editing software. CS5 is much more than I need anyway…..

That said I understand Adobe – there is nothing better than nice cash flow and captive customer…..and that what CC is all about.

6 upvotes
Toermalijn
By Toermalijn (11 months ago)

Adobe reveals new features for CC:

what do you guys think now of the CC subscription?

http://www.adobe.com/

Interesting features to warrant an upgrade to CC?! and held hostage...

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Walter
By Walter (11 months ago)

Hostage is such an emotive expression...you do have a choice you know. Vote with your feet...don't buy it..so simple.Your link is faulty for some reason..? What are the interesting features?

2 upvotes
acahaya
By acahaya (11 months ago)

I have a question that imo was not answered before.
I have a CS6 license (not extended). If i buy 1 month PS CC, i'll be able to download and use CS6 extended for a month because CC only offers the extended version. If i decide after 1 month that my original CS6 is enough for me, can i still use it or was my CS6 boxed license changed to a CC license and i cannot use what i already paid for?

I friend of me who owns a CS6 extended version bought a 1 month subscription for PS CC. Since the PS version available in CC is still CS6 extended and not CS7 as their adds make you believe, all he received was a notification that his CS6 extended installation is up to date and that his license model was changed to subscription. He paid for something he already has and although he contacted Adobe, he got no reply reagarding the question if he had to continue to pay the subscription and he also did not get a refund.

3 upvotes
nathansmith
By nathansmith (11 months ago)

You'll always be able to use CS6 (not extended). I'm in the same situation.

I don't know if you also use Lightroom. I use both, and I'm probably going to get the complete CC suite for one year at $19.95 a month, which after one year, is only $40 more than just getting Photoshop CC and paying $79 to upgrade Lightroom. I would like to try Dreamweaver, In Design, Illustrator, etc., and to use them for $40 total for the year seems worth it.

After one year, if I don't like the pricing options, I'll go back to CS6 and I'll pay $79 to get Lightroom 6 (which should be out in June 2014).

0 upvotes
Toermalijn
By Toermalijn (11 months ago)

If they don't decide to put Lightroom and elements into the cloud as well. They are allready thinkg about this.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 1879
12345