Photoshop CC: Adobe responds to reaction

It might be interesting if DPReview could do a survey of some of Adobe's competitors to ask whether, since this announcement, they are noticing any significant increase in downloads and sales of products that compete with Photoshop.

What arrogance!
Adobe has crossed the line.
I've been a professional photographer for almost 40 years, and have used Adobe's products since the beginning. This is not the way to treat loyal customers. Everybody needs to earn a living, but this reeks of pure arrogance and greed.
This is the excuse I needed to dump Adobe entirely and move to a different image editing software.

We'll see how this all plays out. I think Adobe may re-think their pricing structure, at least for those wanting ONLY Photoshop, such as me. Their current subscription of $20/month (yearly subscription) for Photoshop only is a bit high.

Get it down below $15...more like $10...and I'll sign up to have access to the latest and greatest version.

Hey Adobe, you really might want to take a look at this;

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/330c8b8e-b66b-11e2-93ba-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2SibaBklP

Obviously the folks at Adobe must not read AFTER CAPTURE MAGAZINE online each month. The amount of soft wear being offered, or in development by others is mind boggling. If any photographer's are not familiar with AFTER CAPTURE MAGAZINE, do a Search now. It's free and a great read.

Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, all say we should be part of their Cloud. Add in the other dozen Cloud Service's I've been offered, and soon their will be enough to create a Storm as they begin to clash.

Microsoft ignored all of the Beta Testers for the new WIN 8 OS, and yesterday announced that they blew it and would now change WIN 8 to be what users want, not what Mr. Softy said they would have to accept. I expect Adobe will be forced to follow suit.

The more I think about it, the less of a big deal this seems to be. For those who are wedded to ACR for raw conversions, just use Lightroom, and you will have updated camera support until such time as Adobe decides to put that in the CC model as well. For non-ACR needs, continue using CS6 until Photoshop adds a killer feature that can only be accessed via CC. At that point, you will be forced to make a choice, but it is the same choice that you would have faced with the old model, i.e. upgrade or not. The difference is the price. With CC, it would appear that the annual cost ultimately will be higher, especially for those who did not upgrade with each new version.

The real problem is that there is no true alternative to Photoshop at this time. However, the possibility now exists for some other developer to come up with a Photoshop replacement that is aimed specifically at photographers who don't like being gouged by Goliath. There are a lot of us.

I would hope that this has Google's attention, in the sense that they are seeing a huge opportunity in turning Picasa (or some variant) into a true Photoshop (or at least Elements) alternative.

Looking at the pricing plans again, it looks like ACADEMIC users are going to get screwed worse than the average photographer. After the promotional period, the monthly price is $29.99 for the full suite. While that may be a discount from the standard pricing, it could still cost schools a lot more.

Picture a high school with 10 seats of Photoshop and they only upgrade every other generation. It only costs $3,200 for those 10 seats from Amazon, but the school district would need to spend $3,000 just in the first year. This new pricing is bad for everyone.

I downloaded a trial copy of Paintshop Pro last night. It looks pretty good.

"... you don't need a valid license or Internet connection to uninstall the software." - Winston Hendrickson, VP of Creative Solutions, Adobe Systems, Inc.

!!!!!!!

Photo Ninja is a relatively "new" product but oh what a start they've had! It's RAW processing is great. And, to think, it will only get better. They are just on v1 but have great, great promise. In my mind it does a better job than ACR right now. It has some glitches and I'm sure they will be resolved shortly, but as a "new" photo editing product it's pretty good.
I currently marry this with Aperture (w/PT Lens plug-in) and I'm good to go for 97% of the work I do.

BAD, BAD, BAD DECISION ADOBE!!!!!

So what would happen to CC users if Adobe collapses? (which this sort of user-bullying could result in) Would they be left high-and-dry when their software license ends?

In my view users should be able to buy-out of CC, at a price based on what they have invested in the leasing of the CC software.

Come on Dpreview, man-up and give us an "alternatives to Photoshop" article.

This whole article is essentially a press release for Adobe designed to soften the blow of this rental model by dangling LR before our noses and trying to convince us after all these years of happily using Photoshop productively we really don't need it or it's not intended for us. That is the very definition of hutzpah.

And based on this move, we have every reason to believe LR will follow into the cloud so throwing us crumbs in the form of LR is no consolation.

What I don't understand is if DPR just wanted to assist Adobe in selling this thing, why not just put a link to adobe.com? Why would DPR choose to side with Adobe over it's own user base with absurd analysis like "most photographers are better served by LR"?

Oh well, at least we know whose side DPR is on.

Adobe is expecting a 15% growth rate per year from this model? They are already alienating a portion of their current clientèle. New users would surely look for alternatives rather than sign up for this scheme. The only reason I can see going to this is if you are a business already heavily invested in Adobe. They may have convinced some investors this model will work, but they've got their heads in the cloud if they expect such growth.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100564321

Just boycott it - don't subscribe. Eventually they'll give up.

Like a lot of other people, I have stuck with PS since the beginning. With their new approach, I will stick with CS6 and never upgrade. I intend to look around for alternatives. At times we have internet problems and this means that at those times I would have no access to my files. The blatant grab for money is disgusting.

Goodbye and farewell Adobe!

Adobe will quickly learn how the marketplace will pounce on this vulnerability. I've taken countless surveys from adobe asking about such concepts. I've always answered questions about the CC concept negatively. I'm about to retire and can't see this business model working for me at all.

I hope other major software vendors will see this as an opportunity and pour more resources into developing competing products.

Adobe broke areas of Photoshop automation in CS4 and has been unwilling to fix it. In CS6 Adobe introduce additional bugs into Photoshop and only fixed some of them. The Adobe Plug-in Scriptlistener disable new Photoshop Features and Adobe state that not a problem. Now Adobe want more money for their Products they refuse to Fix.

I'm also getting tired of Adobe changing Photoshop in ways that break action, scripts and plug-ins. I had to resolve compatibility problems when I installed CS3, I skipped cs4. Had compatibility problems with CS5. CS6 was unusable for the first 5 month till Adobe fixed some of the bugs. CS6 still has bugs introduced in CS4 and additional new reported bugs have not been addressed.

Now Adobe wants more money. Something is wrong here...

Maybe dpreview should do a poll to try and separate the rage. Is it the subscription model or is it the pricing. For me it is the pricing because I think Adobe should be able to charge less rather than more by streamlining their services.

Having said that, just to take a devil's advocate approach, $20 is about what I spent on a 36 exp. roll of Velvia after processing in the old days.

This does nothing to lessen my hostility to Creative Cloud. Despite Adobe's assurances, CC is nothing more than Adobe leveraging their near-monopoly in professional graphics applications to force people into paying them a monthly fee rather than allowing them to purchase a license and potentially wait to upgrade until there's a version they find useful, even if it's a few generations later. I hope their strategy fails, big time.

I just tried to have a conversation with Adobe Sales. They are very aggressive about why this new CC has created a fuss. They see it as doing a favor to the people in the industry who make money with their products.

The fellow attempted to explain business to me (I've run my own company since 1994). I said that was fine coming from someone who didn't own a business. He said he runs one part time, and that's the same as doing it full time. He has no clue.

The egos that run companies like Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, they are NOT working for their customers, they are simply working for shareholders.

People, do your self a favor. Stop investing in the markets. Invest in your local community. Invest in things you can touch and feel, and effect. It is the only way we will stop what our world is becoming. A class of poor people working for a few rich people. And I mean a few.

The CameraGuy

From the article: "Adobe is not providing a timeline for how long new camera support will continue for the ACR version of Photoshop CS6"

In other words, if you thought you'd just use that $600 version of CS6 you just purchased forever with each new camera that you purchase, think again. But don't worry, Adobe have got you covered in the form of CC. So they will make all roads point to CC, not matter what. That's called "Vendor Lock-in".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in

I'll keep buying DxO instead of Lightroom. And Google or someone will make a Photoshop competitor soon.

The way I look at it is that Adobe is leaving photographers who like Photoshop behind. I spend a couple of hundred dollars every year and a half to two years and buy most every upgrade offered since Version 4 (not CS4 but 4). Much of the time I have to upgrade in order for my cameras to be supported by Adobe Camera RAW.

Now, they promise to support my camera in Version 8 of ACR but no further and that PS CS6 will support ACR ver 8. What this means to me is that I can only stay with CS6 until ACR 9 comes out. No camera I may purchase after that point will be supported. That's probably a year to two years, looking at the past. At that point I'll have to upgrade to their new system at around $240 per year subscription or really mess up my workflow by converting RAW files without using a plug-in. Basically, ACR is lost to me in around 2 years max unless I rent Photoshop.

I'm going to look at Corel for now. I need to be comfortable before that time occurs.

Microsoft Office 365 Home Premium shows the proper way to roll out subscription software. For people who have multiple computers, and/or for people who use all seven Office applications, it's a really good deal, not a price gouge. And for people who want to go the traditional route, non-subscription versions of the software is still available. Microsoft is using a carrot to get people interested in subscription software. Adobe is using a stick, if not a billy club.

Sign a petition against CC:

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

Someone posted the link before.

Wow, they're having problems selling a $600 software suite... Who'd of thought that?

Adobe CS is industry standard in many fields including design and photography. Professionals in those fields don't really have much of a choice right now but to switch over to the cloud. It looks like Adobe has found a way to force people into upgrading and purchasing all of their software.

All this crap about supporting different versions and all is total BS. It's simple, for those who don't mind staying with and old version, just make them pay for it upfront with an additional premium. Cut off their download privileges when their time is up.

Fortunately for me, it's not a huge leap in cost since I keep my software fairly update and use most of the Suite. There are benefits to having everyone on the same version and having access to software I didn't buy the most current versions for since I rarely use them. For those who just use Photoshop, this really blows. If I was just a photographer, I'd jump ship. Overall, I think this move sucks.

As a small individual user of photoshop that started with PS3, my costs will remain the same for a year and then more than double after that. I'm really disappointed with Adobe and feel totally screwed!!

I'm a full time professional who has used Photoshop for over 20 years...still have the complete set of like-new printed manuals for version 2.5. I've faithfully upgraded with every single new release. I tried to like Lightroom...for a few months. Hated it. I DO NOT appreciate Adobe's newest arrogant, greedy, money-grabbing scheme. I own my home...I don't rent it. I own my vehicles...I don't rent them. I own my computers...I don't rent them. I own every single piece of software on my computers...I don't "rent" any of it. As long as I can still use my version of CS6 as is, Adobe will never get another penny from me. The answers from Adobe in your above interview are what one would expect from any politician skilled at "photoshopping" the truth and lying to his constituents. Mr. Hendrickson should be ashamed of himself.

I have Elements... 8 in the Mac, 10 in the PC and will probably upgrade to 11 on both.

Instead of LR I use ACDSee and it works great

I haven't used PS in years and, frankly, don't miss it a whole lot

Adober Stock prices falling: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ADBE

And

Report of Dr. Joel West professor of Innovation & Entrepreneurship:

"Adobe Jumps Off A Cliff, Leaves Parachute Behind"

He states: "Usually when you make such a dramatic transition, you run the two business models in parallel. In Monday's presentation, Adobe's CFO Mark Garrett said that the subscriptions have topped 500,000. At $50/month, that's $300 million a year; with annual revenues of $4.5 billion, that's meaningful but not overwhelming."

"Garrett said that beyond the core audience of beyond full-time "creative professionals," it's targeting three other groups: marketing staff at small/medium businesses, SOHO photographers/hobbyists, and education.

Read more at: http://seekingalpha.com/article/1412811-adobe-jumps-off-a-cliff-leaves-parachute-behind?source=yahoo

The deal is, pay per month perpetually with no ownership perpetually. Over 5 years you have paid $1,200 and own nothing. That is provided that ADBE does not jack up the price during those 5 years, which I see happening, specially when you wouldn't own anything, so it would be either all or nothing.

I've been a fan of Photoshop since its first release. I hate Lightroom and will not buy it and I will never fork over a monthly fee to use Photoshop to edit my photos. So, much as I love Photoshop and have enjoyed using the new features with each iteration, I will simply stay with the version I have now and never, never buy from Adobe again!

I have just received an e-mail, here in Germany, from Adobe Systems inviting me to subscribe to CC, for a mere Euro 61.49 pm. This, at today’s exchange rate is $80.76 pm. How can they really expect normal working amateur photographers to pay this exorbitant monthly sum? A European rip-off, you can only shake your head in wonder at their price finding strategy.

If Adobe's goal was to get a lot of publicity for its announcement, it certainly worked. (grin)

Someone mentioned it earlier but well worth another mention.
I fully understand the need to continue to make revenue. I recently came back from Indonesia where pirated software (including CS5.5) was available for around $3 per DVD......and at a public mall....
However they should take a leaf out of the Apple book. By making the software affordable (a la iTunes and app store) they dramatically increased sales, and profit, and also made it very much less attractive to purchase pirated versions.
The other suggestion of marketing limited featured "lite" versions in order to get a user base is also worthy of consideration. My guess is that most hobbyists will never purchase the rental version and will learn to use other utilities which are more economical or free (maybe Gimp etc.).

Just my $0.02 worth....

What a complete PR disaster. They should have run both subscription and user owned models in parallel with strong pricing on the subscription package. After a few years the market would decide and adobe would be the good guys for offering a choice. Better to boil a toad slowly so he doesnt notice.