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Photoshop CC: Adobe responds to reaction

May 8, 2013 at 00:09:22 GMT

SOFTWARE NEWS ADOBE CREATIVE-CLOUD PHOTOSHOP

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Yesterday's announcement by Adobe that it will cease 'perpetual license' sales of Photoshop and its Creative Suite counterparts has generated considerable backlash here on dpreview and across the web. With such a significant change in store, we spoke today with Adobe VP of Creative Solutions, Winston Hendrickson and Bryan O'Neill Hughes, Senior Product Manager for Photoshop for Adobe's response to the uproar.

At the conclusion of the interview, we've put together a brief set of FAQs regarding Adobe's Creative Cloud announcement.

Winston Hendrickson, VP of Creative Solutions, Adobe Systems, Inc.

Q&A with Adobe VP of Creative Solutions, Winston Hendrickson

Were you expecting such a negative response from the photographic community?

We expected a higher degree of this type of reaction from the hobbyist photographic community because currently there's not a lot of photography-specific value in our subscription products. That's why we've taken the unusual steps of Tom Hogarty's appearance on The Grid [a Scott Kelby webisode] showing potential Lightroom CC features and the Photoshop Sneak Peek where we showed new features like Camera Shake reduction.

Is a subscription model less prone to piracy?

While service options that connect to our servers are inherently less prone to piracy, once a user downloads software to their computer the piracy threat is the same as for our perpetual products.

The reason behind the subscription-only move is the logistics of supporting two sets of software. The last 12 months of development was brutal. And there were results we were not happy with. We have decided to focus on the CC products.

As far as the future of CS applications, in his Adobe MAX keynote, David Wadhwani said, 'We have no plans' to continue perpetual licenses. We are not ruling that out in the future.

How do you justify the price increase to photographers?

Last year we actually cut the price of Lightroom in half in order to open it up to a broader market of photographers.

What assurances can our readers have that Lightroom will not become a subscription-only option?

[Bryan O'Neil Hughes] Lightroom is for photographers. And the Lightroom team is very aware of the reaction by photographers to Photoshop CC. We don't have plans to make Lightroom a subscription-only option but we do envision added functionality for CC members using Lightroom.

What support can CS6 users expect?

Barring something unforeseen from Apple and Microsoft, we plan to update Photoshop CS6 for the next Mac and Windows operating system releases. Once Camera Raw 8 is completed for Photoshop CC, we are going to release a version of it for CS6 that includes any new camera support but without any of the new CC tools and features.

In addition, DNG Converter will remain a free option to convert new Raw file formats for use in older versions of Photoshop.

What happens to Photoshop CC and my files if I cancel my subscription?

We do not delete any files or software from your computer. You will not be able to use the software but the files you've created and saved on your hard drive are left intact. And you don't need a valid license or Internet connection to uninstall the software.

What can you say to users concerned that a subscription model removes their option to at least stick with an older version of software if they no longer want to continue paying for it?

That's the trade-off for the benefits of a continuously updated application. At the time you decide to stop paying for it, yes you lose access, but after, say 12 months, you've ended up with a different product than the one you subscribed to, because of the new features that have been added. And for existing perpetual users, Photoshop CS can co-exist alongside and independently from Photoshop CC.

One final point I'd like to address is the misconception that you have to be continuously connected to the Internet to use a CC application. Monthly subscribers can go for as long as 30 days without connecting to the Internet for license validation. Users with an annual commitment can go for as long as 99 days.

Reader FAQs

Below, the editorial staff at dpreview have compiled answers to some of the most commonly asked questions our readers have asked since Adobe's announcement. The explanations here are culled from information Adobe has posted online since the announcement of the Creative Cloud membership.

What is CC?

Adobe has rebranded its upcoming versions of applications with the 'CC' (Creative Cloud) moniker. They will be made available on June 17. A month-to-month or discounted annual CC subscription gives you access to all of the Adobe Creative Suite titles, including Photoshop, Lightroom, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Premiere and After Effects. You can see a full list of the available software here.

Why am I being forced to work in the 'cloud'?

The simple answer is that you're not. Once you've subscribed, you still download Photoshop and install it on your preferred hard drive. You can open, edit and save files locally just as you would in CS6. While Adobe is touting the connectivity and collaborative features of its CC applications, and providing 20GB of online storage, you can choose not to take advantage of these services.

You will need an Internet connection to download, install and license the software, of course. You will also be asked to connect to the web periodically in order to validate the license. At launch, annual subscribers will be able to use the products for 99 consecutive days while offline. Eventually, this offline ability will be extended to 180 consecutive days without Internet access.

I'll never use Dreamweaver or InDesign. Can I subscribe just to Photoshop?

Yes. Adobe is offering a special introductory price for CS3 and later owners of $9.99 per month for the first 12 months. The regular price for a Photoshop CC-only subscription is $19.99 per month with an annual commitment and $29.99 per month for the ability to cancel at any time. You should also know that Photoshop CC includes all of the additional features and functionality that was limited to Photoshop Extended in CS versions.

What happens to ACR support for CS6?

As Tom Hogarty states on Adobe's Lightroom blog, CS6 users will gain the camera compatibility updates set to arrive on June 17 in ACR 8. These updates, however, will not include any of the new features seen in the Photoshop CC demo or Lightroom 5 Beta release, such as the Upright tool, Advanced Healing Brush or Radial Gradient Filter. Adobe is not providing a timeline for how long new camera support will continue for the ACR version of Photoshop CS6.

Can I still buy Lightroom?

Yes. Lightroom, while available as part of the Creative Cloud bundle, can still be purchased as a standalone piece of software at $149 for new users and $79 for owners of any previous version. Adobe Acrobat can be purchased as a standalone title as well.

Can I still buy Photoshop CS6?

Photoshop CS6 is still currently available for a downloadable purchase here on Adobe's site.

Do I really need Photoshop?

One thing that Adobe's move has certainly done is make many photographers ask themselves whether they need all, or even a majority of tools Photoshop currently offers. Indeed, whenever we write about newly announced Photoshop features, there's always a segment of users who claim the features are of no use to them and that they'll happily stick with a previous version. And many, of course have adopted a 'skip every other upgrade' policy.

For users working primarily with Raw files, the current version of Lightroom offers a vast majority of the tools that users producing traditional photographic output require. Indeed, unless you're creating composite images or performing fashion/beauty retouching, we'd argue most Lightroom users are making far fewer trips to Photoshop than they did in previous versions.

And if your image editing needs are limited to exposure and contrast adjustments to 8-bit files there's Photoshop Elements, which is available as a standalone purchase for $99.

Comments

Total comments: 1547

Can't say I'm impressed. Maybe I'm wrong, but the whole interview struck me as a 'smoke & mirrors' excuse approach by a corporation hell bent on taking even more of your money. They're attempt to explain this away will only cause even more negative backlash and suspicion towards Adobe and their other products.

But on a positive note, there is an opportunity now for someone to step up and take a shot at winning over lost Adobe customers.

12 upvotes

Apple should upgrade their Aperture, been a very long time since anything serious happened there!

1 upvote

Here is a solution: Short ADBE stock and use your profits to buy a competitor's product!

8 upvotes

Interesting decision - they're moving the CS titles out of the amateur market. In the broader world of professional software, there are relatively few software packages that allow perpetual licenses, so this type of licensing is standard for most professions. Adobe products have been different, of course, because they have such a huge amateur user base. People don't buy enterprise resource planning or point of sale software packages and mess around with them in their free time.

I seriously doubt the move will have any effect on their base of professional users (the costs increases are small). Adobe is establishing a clearer distinction between their professional products and their less-featured counterparts (the Elements series). The amateurs will just switch from the full-featured software to the "lite" versions.

If you're a professional, that's actually a good thing because (in theory) Adobe will have more time to devote to the concerns of its professional user base.

rgames

0 upvotes

I am using ADOBE product as pro since 1989. I can insure you, that you are wrong.

16 upvotes

So now us... (amateurs) who supported you for many years, and helped make Adobe what they are today, get screwed? Not because of the piracy excuse, but because we can't afford the "new ticket price" to be included with the anointed ones! If we wanted to use the other products, don't you think we would have chosen them before... to save money? No... we trusted you and now we get screwed! Plain and Simple! FU!

10 upvotes

Now, I wish I would have been a pirate instead of being an honest, good paying customer! Then, I would say that we would have deserved each other!

6 upvotes

I agree. In my profession we use a number of technical software for design and simulation and studies. None of them offer perpetual licences. Theirs are yearly licences (like antivirus) and services offer both stand alone installations and server based ones.
Adobe has made a concious decision to class Photoshop as a professional software. That's it.

0 upvotes

And what happens when you stop paying?

1 upvote

Professional user and teacher for more than 15 years. I am going to cancel future Photoshop classes because I won't hook others in.

I'll continue to use CS-6 until I find something new, but I will not look at another adobe product.

Perhaps most importantly, I will stop recommending it to the many, many people who ask me what they should use. I'm not the only one.

I know several professional photographers who do not upgrade Photoshop more than once every other version, if that. It's not a money issue. They use what they need in their current software and don't have time to learn the quirks and changes of each new release. The CC model is not for professional photographers, but for graphics production professionals.

4 upvotes

The cost delta is what, maybe a couple hundred dollars a year? If you're in the US, Congress has a *much* larger impact on your bottom line than that. So rail against them before you rail against Adobe!

The bottom line is that this "New" business model for Adobe is the "Standard" business model for most other professional software packages.

0 upvotes

Photoshop isn't like other professional business software most of which have miniscule unit volume sales compared to Photoshop so they *have* to charge a significant support fee because the efficiency of scale isn't there. Photoshop has a significant non-professional user base which is put at risk with this move. If that's what they want to do fine, but I would expect to see their earnings growth tank in a year or so after the initial boost from the CC changeover.

2 upvotes

I agree it seems they'll take a revenue hit in the short term but as folks get used to the distinction between the professional line and the "lite" versions I think the revenues will ramp back up.

Once that distinction is clear, Adobe can raise the price on the CC products even higher because, again, the cost delta is not that much for the professional user base.

0 upvotes

Could well be a not so clever way of getting rid of us small customers, who often cost more per user than huge corporations!

0 upvotes

http://oi40.tinypic.com/5cgmb.jpg

Bad company deserves a bad PhotoChop

Comment edited 40 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

The Adobe talking head is simply saying, "We want as much money as we can make, and screw the customers".

The customers' reply should be, "Oh, yeah? Watch who gets screwed when we refuse to sign up for your money-grabbing scheme and patronize, instead, other options" (unspecified, to keep this posting legal).

16 upvotes

I have a great idea for Adobe: If you upgrade your software products with new features that deliver value to your customers, we will pay for the upgrade, without complaint.

We're sick and tired of paying for upgrades just because the OS is new, or just because a new camera camera came out, or just because a year has gone by.

Create something inside the Adobe Cloud, and our wallets will open up. But this pay-for-subscription scheme is a shakedown.

9 upvotes

Adobe has run out of innovative ideas. That's obvious with this new pricing scheme. 'Camera Shake' is NOT something a PRO would need. They are simply trying to lock down their user base before it becomes obvious, they have nothing new to show us.

5 upvotes

This is the greatest thing to ever happen to software! I hope all other software company's follow this model eventually...

I update every year the second new versions are released, the cloud just makes it so much easier and cheaper!

I don't understand everyone's negative reaction this this?? If you want to used old out-dated software you're more than welcome to. The idea of updated software is to make it better, faster and speed up the workflow among other things. Time is money in this industry. Why don't people value their time???

3 upvotes

We were already updating from "the cloud" with CS (some people were buying DVD's but that was optional.) How is it easier and cheaper to deal with 2 new features every 4 months versus 9 new features every 18 months? I can't believe this makes any difference in productivity.

3 upvotes

I can't tell if you're trolling or just really dim...

4 upvotes

I upgrade each time, also. I also know that this is not cheaper. obviously you are not a professional accountant that is an amateur photographer.

1 upvote

Just to inform you, most of professional software companies are doing yearly licensing for a long time, withoout losing user base. The key word here is "Professional Software". Adobe has woken up to it now. Better late than never.

0 upvotes

because you have to update, it is not a choice you are making. Lets say i am OK with my version of adobe cc version 1 and don't need the extra features
Well to hold on to it for 10 years for example it will cost me 2400$ instead of 699$

2 upvotes

AstroFalcon must be part of the Adobe's PR machine.
There is no reason nor an excuse to defend Adobe's step.

How can you defend the fact that you will now become a beta tester as you will not have any control over your updates.

When Adobe's pushes (by accident) an unstable version to the cloud, you will be stuck with it until they fix it. At this moment I have control over when and how I will update or how I will upgrade.

1 upvote

What made Photoshop the crown jewel of Adobe products was that its broad appeal and utility to all types of users. But Adobe has decided to jettison a large segment of those users. The other stuff, like InDesign is not much of an issue because non-professionals don't need these applications (except students). I use InDesign every day and believe me, you don't want to use it if you don't have to.

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Who is running 10 year old software right now?? Windows 95??

The Cloud is amazing and it is going to save me a ton of money. Maybe this is the wrong place to be posting cause I also use After FX, Premiere, Illustrator, Audition and a few more...

The fact that you get access to all of the amazing programs Adobe makes is insane. Maybe might even get people to start learning more apps, I can tell you right now that I would much rather to proper color correction in After FX than in Photoshop.

0 upvotes

fkazmi, the analogy with most professional software doesn't hold here. Most professional software has absolutely no amateur user base and not nearly the sales volume of photohsop so the only profitable business model is to charge for corporate support. Microsoft is the only other semi-comparable company that comes to mind and they do this right now--you agree to pay some annual amount per seat to get MS Office plus support. But they still offer the same product to the public as a stand-alone product.

Adobe isn't like companies like Autocad or Cadence or Oracle.

0 upvotes

I do not work for Adobe. I just couldn't do my job without their awesome software.

0 upvotes

The software you get as a giveaway for astro"turfing" here?

0 upvotes

To summarize, yes, Adobe knows they're screwing photographers and, no, they don't care. Yes, you will lose the ability to access your PSD's and other Adobe-formatted files the moment you quit paying and, no, there is nothing you can do about it.

Contempt is not a strong enough word to describe what I feel about Adobe right now. I truly hope that the outrage being expressed across photography forums actually translates into lost sales.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

13 upvotes

I would not be surprised if class action of some kind will get airborne ...

7 upvotes

If only Nik software could replace PS! Can it?

6 upvotes

I wonder if Nik/Google has had second thoughts about eliminating Snapseed for the desktop. Nik/Google is the company that first comes to mind as being able to take advantage of this competitive opening that Adobe has created with their money grab.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

Now that is a GREAT idea!

0 upvotes

Yeah, sure. You rather rent or you rather have a company use your stuff, whatever it is, to sell ads and marketing data. Google ranks about as low on my scale of trustworthy companies as Comcast, Facebook and, now, Adobe.

0 upvotes

Something like Photoshop, but with NIK's color control points would be so easy and fast, people would forget Photoshop ever existed.

0 upvotes

Can anybody point out a serious piece of software by Google? Other than the stuff they're coding for SEO in their very own interest.

So far I've only seen small, innovative software developers quickly dying away after Google's poisoned kiss aka wholesale purchase. Google's ludicrous excuses of so called support sites for officially declared dead programs, that is "not further developed anymore", are legion.

Face it guys and gals, Google purchased Nik for the sole purpose of making Snapseed MOBILE technology their intellectual property. The very rest such as the PS plugins they'll dump rather sooner than later; fire sale is already on with free giveaways and massive rebates. They're currently axing old Nik's network of affiliate retailers as they have no interest whatsoever in the tedious business of developing and distributing serios photo editing software.

So keep on dreaming if you want to; but don't be too disappointed if Nik has disappeared forever soon.

0 upvotes

As a hobbyist photographer who primarily uses Ps, but also occasionally Ai & InDesign (for photo compositing and photo bk design, respectively) I cannot afford this ill-conceived Adobe money-making venture. I haven't seen anyone address the issue of how 3rd party plug-ins (Nik, Topaz, Alien Skin, etc.) that run within Ps will be supported if Ps is only offered as a CC product, with ad hoc feature updates when Adobe bestows them on the world. It was challenging enough for the plug-in filter makers to make needed revisions for Ps every 18 mos. I will be one of those folks, who stay with CS5 Ext. for the foreseeable future. This sucks - not all photographers (hobbyist or other) use Lr. I prefer Ps and affiliated pkgs for photos for my pleasure and portfolio creation. Just wait till the idiots who came up with this at Adobe get a bit older and want to keep their synapses going with a stimulating hobby. Hope someone treats them as well for being loyal & a previously vocal advocate...

0 upvotes

Nik and Topaz plugins work with other software such as Aperture. And Topaz offers a relatively low-cost option for using its plugins in a stand-alone program.

0 upvotes

Not everyone is an Apple user.... hard as that may be to believe. Some of us prefer PCs and Android systems as superior. And Topaz photoFXlab - while nice - is not robust like Ps and doesn't allow combining other vendors' plugins - just their own. I don't think you must use a lot of Ps and related filters in a PC environment if you don't get the implications. But your heart is in the right place...

0 upvotes

Brace yourselves...Kevin Lynch, the former CTO who dreamed up this subscription move for Adobe, is now working for Apple!

0 upvotes

Not Exactly Apple subscription structure is awesome. Adobe's sucks !

0 upvotes

Yes, Exactly...Lynch just joined Apple recently.

0 upvotes

The point is, that this concept is very good for very few but no good to many. Overwhelming majority of photographers ( just look how many cameras CANON / NIKON / SONY etc., is selling ) is using Photoshop and these photographers with all updates for DSLR’s and lenses expensive hardware are prone to saving their money.

ADOBE is using trickery with all these so call updates since there are plug-ins for camera shake etc + etc which come a way much cheaper than CC monthly payment.

ADOBE should insure one thing. 100% compatibility, processing speed of Photoshop and stop evicting small plugin developers from their segment of business.

There is sooo many predictions what will happen about this CC “concept” but I am saying that ADOBE will feel it. There will be a strong decline from photographers to update. There will be huge effort from developers to fill in where ADOBE left.

1 upvote

Everyone doesn't need the latest and greatest. There was a time when elegance and economy was valued in software development and performance. I always want the much efficient and elegant solution for my needs-not the kitchen sink approach. But anyone who uses these programs for their living will obviously abide adobe.

0 upvotes

You really think the majority of photographers are using Photohsop? Lightroom maybe, but Photoshop? If that were true, then Adobe just whacked off their main source of long term growth IMO.

1 upvote

They do. I am not saying the latest version but vast majority of photographers they do have Photoshop.

0 upvotes

From reputable and respected software company to untrustworthy bad guys in a single move. Nice work. The cloud won't be seeing any of my money.

12 upvotes

Adobe started going downhill a long time ago; this is simply another nail in its so-called "customer service" coffin...

4 upvotes

Damn, DPR is up to 3,000 posts (in two threads) in 48 hours!

Let the slugfest continue.

Hope you're enjoying the positive PR Adobe - not!

Comment edited 11 minutes after posting

7 upvotes

This is a money grab at the expense of honest users, plain and simple.

5 upvotes

Oh dang, a software company wants to charge people for their highly useful and frequently pirated software. If there was a viable competitor Adobe wouldn't do this, but there isn't and they will.

1 upvote

Then all they are doing is encouraging the honest among us to go find a pirated copy for the first time in a decade of buying their products. A monopoly won't stand for long. They aren't avoiding piracy at all. This has zero affect on the ability to pirate the software. Zero point zero percent. The only people complaining here are people who want to give a reasonable amount of money to Adobe (several hundred for the first PS, and a couple hundred for the upgrades, fyi) and then own something that does not depend upon their servers every month to work. If that doesn't suit them, if they can't have both pricing schemes side by side, then they are forcing people to other products or to pirated copies that some might be less averse to with the fresh taste of bile in their mouth from this move. And remember, if the software is meant for professionals and the pricing scheme is designed for that purpose, then us lowly amateurs will waste your money elsewhere. Free money for Adobe gone

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting

1 upvote

I agree. Free markets abhore a vacuum and Adobe has created a vacuum with this move.

1 upvote

Amen!

0 upvotes

I dont understand all this.. You have a choice .. why not exercise that and stop complaining about what Adobe have done. They are fully entitled to do whatever they want with their business model. Its a free world vote with your cash

0 upvotes

Because it's a disruptive change for the worse. Moving to another product is less preferable to Adobe remaining at their previous pricing. Even if they raised prices slightly it wouldn't be so bad, but this change is >100% price increase for existing customers.

0 upvotes

Oh, just wait until developer of plugins start to complain because their revenue goes down due to this debacle.

Some of them will turn around and instead of making a plugin will release a standalone version of the program. This will eliminate dependency on Adobe and will only hurt the company more.

3 upvotes

> Some of them will turn around ...

... and start selling own subscription services. This is what "going online" ultimately means, which most do not understand, or are simply unwilling to accept.

Implementing a scheme which essentially means substantial payments increase (and this is what Adobe essentially did -- very, very few were upgrading to every release) is a completely different matter.

And IMHO they're going to pay for that. Or go "the Sigma SD1 route". Or both.

0 upvotes

I don't know - I, for example, upgraded literally every time since PS 6, I stopped only after CS 5 because the "new features" in CS 6 with the best will did not justify the expense. CC? No!!!

0 upvotes

If they really wanted to prevent piracy they'd just include a custom usb dongle with the software that was required to be plugged in on program use. Software companies have been doing this for 20 years in professional markets (they used to use a parallel port key). This has nothing to do with anti-piracy and has everything to do with making a boatload of dough.

5 upvotes

it´s is not about piracy.. adobe knows that this will change nothing.

and dongles have been cracked since they exist... dongle emulators.. google it!

1 upvote

Where's Anonymous when we need them? :-(

All kidding aside, I can see them reacting when they see the level of discontent this is causing. It's what they do ;-)

3 upvotes

they are meeting with x-force

0 upvotes

:-D nice one!

0 upvotes

The collective photographic community is Anonymous. If everyone (whose livelihood does not depend on Photoshop) avoids CC, then I wonder if Adobe would reconsider CC.

0 upvotes

Like I stated, the monthly cost isn't a bad thing, but the price point they have it at now is a bad thing. I don't know anyone who upgrades EVERY year, but the price will be like upgrading every 10 months now. They raised the price. That's a HUGE mistake, IMO.

3 upvotes

Not only they raised the price, they stripped out of ownership! you pay for 5 years and after that you still own nothing.

2 upvotes

Oh no... Here comes PhotoChop HAMMER!

http://oi41.tinypic.com/53a8lx.jpg

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

It doesn't make sense to me. One of the reason they're going with this business model is to prevent piracy, but since you can run the program without being connected the internet, up to 30 days for monthly subscriptions, and 99 days for yearly subscriptions, piracy will remain, just my 2 cents !?

1 upvote

Nah, piracy has nothing to do with it. No company on the planet has ever, ever been able to prevent piracy. All one has to do is trace the program flow to the function call that refers to the subscription checker and then replace the call. It is physically impossible to prevent piracy once any form of computer code is in the wild - utterly impossible.

Adobe's choice? All about money. The CEO even admitted it as such, in his own words regarding corporate cash flow, in a prior statement

4 upvotes

Adobe's pricing is cunningly misleading: what if, after a future 'upgrade' of the cloud software, your hardware no longer has enough power to run it? Is Adobe going to upgrade our hardware too, for free? Of course not! At least, in the 'old' system, I had the choice not to upgrade and forfait to hardware costs.

5 upvotes

Unless they have changed their cloud system you can remain on the same version until you upgrade your computer.

0 upvotes

It is interesting to me that the tone of this article basically says: Screw the user, we are doing this because it will work better for us. You guys will just have to like it.

Photoshop is an excellent product. There is no question of that. However, there are other products that will do most of what it does at less cost and without the superior attitude.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the course of the next couple of months. Often, when a change comes about, people react with outrage at first and gradually get used to it. This might happen with CC. Then, it might not. I sure won't pay for it.

Arrogance is often lethal in the software business. Adobe has experienced this before. How is flash on mobile working for you guys?

7 upvotes

Adobe may not learn anything from this but I have. Thom Hogan has an acronym "YAMP" which is Yet Another Monthly Payment. Obviously, this is no concern to mega corporations, but it's the little guy that makes all noise and bad press.

3 upvotes

Seems investors don't like this, either:

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:ADBE#

7 upvotes

Stock is up almost $15/share over the last 6 months.

0 upvotes

Well ADBE has been trying to sell it to the Street as a success and the bankers and traders who have no clue about how the real world may just buy it FOR NOW...
I own LR, PS CS6, Premiere Elements and PSE. These are all upgrades that they will NOT get from me, as I am not planning to feed ADBE with any more of my money until they reverse this rent with no-ownership scam.

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

@ CEfan, they didn't announce this 6 months ago. The stock is down since the announcement.

0 upvotes

The smug arrogance shown in the header pic says it all.....

12 upvotes

I loved him in Boogie Nights....

1 upvote

I think it's a nice portrait. He looks wise and calm. The photos that get me are the pics of Ives, who always seems to be in pain or about to cry.

1 upvote

Adobe... can you spell DONE ????

I'm done with Adobe photo products. Most plugins can be used in other software that costs far less and has nearly all the capabilities of PS... and I don't need PS to make a living so take your SAS (Software as a Service model) and pitch it to your big commercial accounts and full-time pros. You won't be successful at doing this to hobbyist / freelancers....

BUT... I'M SURE YOU KNEW THIS AND DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THAT MARKET (US) TO BEGIN WITH !!!

0 upvotes

For the record, the price of the PS-only sub is the equivalant to being $40 more per year than the normal $199 upgrade has been. You'd think Adobe would have the common sense to offer it at $15 a month so at least you aren't getting screwed MORE than you would if you upgraded EVERY SINGLE YEAR! In my opinion, it's $5 too high per month. Other than that, I use AutoDesk products and am accustomed to the stupid sub-based ownership. At least AutoDesk AutoCAD subs are actually CHEAPER ($495/yr) than if you had upgraded every 7 YEARS ($3,800+)!! Adobe could learn a lesson here.

Also, I don't know if they are working with government agencies on this, but approval of their software (since it has to talk to the internet at least once a month) might hit some roadblocks in a lot of agencies' approval process.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

depends on where you live.. outside the USA people pay more.

3 upvotes

Corel Painter + Corel Paintshop + Corel AfterShot Pro.

corel could be a good competition with a bit more effort.
in the 90s corel was great .. corel draw was the quasi standard here.

but corel seems to be satisfied with the second place and the amateur market.
if corel would do more, they could be a real competition to adobe... even for pros.

8 upvotes

I thought this link from an investor would be worth sharing to the group....

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1412811-adobe-jumps-off-a-cliff-leaves-parachute-behind?source=yahoo

9 upvotes

Excellent article. After reading that analysis and the comments from so many people who cannot allow their software to access the cloud (large chunks of licenses vanishing in those cases) it is becoming obvious that Adobe has one of two choices: 1) sacrifice the size of their market for profit magin increases on a smaller market, or 2) allow for both CC and CS to exist side by side. Adobe will soon learn that when there are people incapable of adjusting their hardware to accommodate software or simply hate the pricing strategy of a product, there will be people with money waiting to spend it on a new product that can spot that sea of money waiting for a place to go. This is a chance for a new Apple to emerge from the shadows of Microsoft. If I was smart I'd quit my job, go home, and start programming all the things I wished Adobe would have done. Something tells me there is already somebody chomping at the bit to take what Adobe just threw in the gutter.

2 upvotes

Very informative. Notable quote: "People are grumbling, but of course nobody likes a price increase - so the real question of pricing power is whether customers have any realistic alternative. (Adobe's 89% gross margins suggests most of their customers are stuck)."

0 upvotes

CEfan:

I realize you're quoting a quotation, but the problem isn't entirely the price increase, it's the pay forever to use the software.

The crappy Windows version of AutoDesk's AutoCAD costs a lot more that this and that's maintained by its near monopoly position, in the US market at least. But at least you buy it.

There's much better CAD software and that still costs a lot more than Photoshop--not now that Photoshop CC costs something like 1800USD to run for 3 years. And again you buy the better software.

0 upvotes

Great article.

The best quote, IMHO, "My guess (just a guess) is that if the professionals cooperate with the subscription model, Adobe will attempt to shift consumers to the subscription model within 3 years." So much for them saying we won't do that to LR or??? Trust us... the check is in the mail!

0 upvotes

After reading this interview I'm glad that I didn't upgrade CS3 to CS6...

9 upvotes

I was about to upgrade from PSCS5 to PSCS6 because Adobe said an upgrade to PSCS7 could only be made from PSCS6. Well, now that I know there won't be a PSCS7, I no longer see a reason to upgrade to PSCS6, so Adobe lost twice with this move.

3 upvotes

Arved:

Unless you want to buy a new digital camera and use ACR 7.xx to extract raws, Photoshop CS5 is plenty good. (Cue the powerusers.)

0 upvotes

I'm about to try Linux on my old Windows box so GIMP will probably do what I need done. Clouds are for rain.

2 upvotes

GIMP runs on Windows and OS X too.

1 upvote

Will Perlis:

And this new version Photoshop still runs on your computer, not the cloud.

Gimp does not extract raws.

Aftershot (good inexpensive raw extraction software from Corel) runs on Mac, Linux and Windows.

0 upvotes

I work for a Large corporation and we can afford the CC, but we can't use it because our organization is security sensitive and blocks all cloud access. Nice work Adobe, there are at least 300 users you've just alienated.

12 upvotes

And your organization is too inept to punch the right holes in the firewall allowing Adobe's IP block?

2 upvotes

You just don't get it do you. In my organization there are PC's hooked to the internet and there are many that are not ever connected.
I work for DND currently. When I worked for SDL optics it was the same.

7 upvotes

hammerheadfistpunch:

This software only needs access to the internet to check the license, probably every 30 days, but maybe longer intervals would work for the year's subscription.

The cloud is storage marketed under a different name, this isn't really cloud computing.

0 upvotes

hammerheadfistpunch: LOL!
These computers NEVER go on the internet.....EVER!!

They are put in service and if they require an update or added functionality, I procure it and it install it from disk or thumbdrive.

This is a part of my job.

If they don't change thier policy, Adobe is dead to me.

0 upvotes

This is another bloodsucking company. I sure wish they had some better competition.

7 upvotes

I hope it will be hacked soon!

3 upvotes

Look at this:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop.edu.html
Photoshop CC has no education price?
Now you have to rent the whole Creative Cloud Student and Teacher Edition, even if you need only Photoshop ?

1 upvote

A an non profit Photographer I only use light room and Photoshop Element, I'll Guess there is no changes for us amateurs.
Am I right????

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

I have come to the same conclusion. I do feel that their pricing is way to high.

0 upvotes

For now there is no change. Wait a while.

3 upvotes

"My guess (just a guess) is that if the professionals cooperate with the subscription model, Adobe will attempt to shift consumers to the subscription model within 3 years." From the previously credited investment advisory article.

0 upvotes

So as a amateur using CS5, I can either be forced to go to CC, stay at
CS5, pay for CS6 at full price (no upgrade seems to be available) or downgrade to elements.

So much for customer loyalty. When a company think that they are the only game in town, it is time to turn ones back on them.........

A most unhappy customer..........

10 upvotes

Elements 11 is a viable alternative for many photographers. Add Elements+ and it is very capable software for a total cost of less than $70 is you snag Elements on sale for $50...

http://www.mattk.com/2012/09/26/why-photoshop-elements-11-is-the-best-version-of-elements-yet/

http://simplephotoshop.com/elementsplus/index.htm

As far as "customer loyalty" goes, there is precious little of it around corporate America in 2013. Try to stick with companies that still think that the customer comes first...

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

@MrMojo Elements only allows you to work with 8-bit files making it a non-starter for many. Adobe knows this.

5 upvotes

marike6 yet quite a few of them then export the files as jpegs.

0 upvotes

@marike6 I realize that Elements is somewhat restricted when it comes to 8-bit files. But I think that many photographers don't always need 16-bit files and now they have a reason to review their workflow requirements. There are also workarounds for dealing with 16-bit files that will be edited with Elements.

The last several versions of Elements have supported a fair number of editing steps at 16 bits, including levels, shadow/highlight, and hue/saturation (in other words, many of the things that benefit most from the extra bit depth). These adjustments themselves work at 16 bits, but layers don't, so you have to apply the adjustments directly to the image, not via layers, if you want to use the full bit depth.

Here is an interesting article about 8-bit v.s 16-bit files and inkjet printing:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/knowledge-center/hype-or-hero-take-2-16-bit-printers.html

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Let's see:
Full price of Adobe Photoshop CS6 - $650
Monthly rental of CC 6 - $50

So anyone who would use Photoshop for 3 years before upgrading will need to spend extra $1150 in order to gain some updates no one really cares about.

I suggest that from the very first customer who is sucked into this horrible deal, Mr Winston Hendrickson goes and spends the extra $1200 he just made and buys himself this :

http://www.amazon.com/Passion-Natural-Water-Based-Lubricant-Gallon/dp/B005MR3IVO

Maybe it will be enough to last him the first year he is used as a punching bag.

On a more "serious" note - I think it's time to PhotoChop a picture of this guy in in some funny and humiliating manner ...

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

What adobe and many others fail to realize or acknowledge, is that there are many who can't or do not want to connect to the internet or the "cloud".
Out of necessity I avoid applications that require a connection for functionality. I often spend time in regions that have satellite reception only.
I've used pc's before there was an internet and they worked fine, it's bad enough that you require a power source!
More devices including BluRay players and TV's are hooking up to the internet to add functionality and make our lives easier. While this is true to an extent, there are still hands on methods aavailable such as when you upgrade firmware on our cameras. We are heading to a point where we will pay for our complacency and lazyness. You will have to be "plugged in", "subscribed", "maintained", "monitored", and so on. It's like an addiction.

3 upvotes

I've now had several replies from Adobe support and have gotten multiple answers. I was surprised to see in one of the above responses to Lightroom _not_ going the way of a subscription --- I was told by an Adobe rep in a chat that it would be $9.95/month for an annual subscription. Let's hope that rep was wrong!

0 upvotes

"My guess (just a guess) is that if the professionals cooperate with the subscription model, Adobe will attempt to shift consumers to the subscription model within 3 years." previously credited quote from an investment advisory service.

Time to start looking for your alternatives.

0 upvotes

Adobe - "We don't care, We don't have to..."

While you may not have to be connected to the internet to use the new Adobe products, your banks account must be connected to Adobe at all times to preserve their revenue stream. There is no other way to look at it. The 800 pound gorilla in to room is using its monopoly status to extort cash from its customer base.

Apeture is looking better and better all the time.

10 upvotes

ADBE stocks going down today as well...
Nasdaq is positive.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting

5 upvotes

It's going back to last week's price.
Just before the announcement, stock price jumped. I would say investors betting on the new Adobe product pricing scheme. Insider trading. Ha!

2 upvotes

Wait for this "scythe"storm to last long enough and for Q2 results to be announced...

1 upvote

I wonder who will step in to fill this void first, Gimp or Google?

2 upvotes

Google!

6 upvotes

corel should beef up the paintshop development team.
add corel painter into the mix and it could be fantastic!

corel also has a great RAW convert with the former BIBBLE app.

Comment edited 53 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

Google of course.
Acquisition of Nik looking better.

3 upvotes

Google? Egad! Picasa as a PSCSx replacement? I know they recently bought NIK, which had done a smash-up job (at the time) with Nikon Capture NX and NX2, but I think it's a stretch for them to take the tools and software they have and create a palletable alternative. Besides, they're bigger on cloud computing than Adobe will ever be. Photoshop cc still stays on your hard disk, only now it has to phone home monthly to validate and download the latest bugs.

1 upvote

For those of us in education this looks rough. Not sure how we are going to pay a per computer monthly fee to get this in front of students. Unless they discount is substantially for schools they just cut us completely out of using Adobe products.

1 upvote

Why would you want to teach a product that people can never own? Maybe you should rethink the tools that will be needed in the future.

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting

11 upvotes

Penny wise, pound foolish.

Adobe depends on putting their products in front of students to ensure a user base into the future. This new pricing scheme may extort cash from current professionals - but how many colleges will be forced out of the Adobe product stream.

In the end, Adobe may just kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

2 upvotes

Seems to me schools are primarily teaching products that will be used by graphic arts students in the business world. If they move into the that profession, the companies they work for will most likely have the creative cloud, since most seem to think that this new pricing is advantageous for businesses. For those of us not becoming graphic artists, you have a point.

0 upvotes

Thin-end of the wedge: "processor-intensive features, such as Camera Shake Reduction tool, where the work can be conducted in the cloud..."

Where do they draw the line between what runs locally and what runs in the cloud? Particularly when it's in their interest to get-to-market quicker by developing for server deployment, versus optimizing for desktop operation?

They've had:

"Adobe® Flash® Media Server on Amazon Web Services™"

Which became:
"Adobe® Media Server 5 on Amazon Web Services™"

Up next?

"Adobe® Photoshop® Creativity Server on Amazon Web Services™"

(Of course, if access to the CC Suite is rolled into my Amazon Prime account, along with unlimited 2-day delivery and streaming past episodes of 'Breaking Bad', then I'm all for it...)

0 upvotes

Yes... Breaking Bad would make it be (almost) worth it!

0 upvotes

I don't understand and never will understand how these gentlemen want to remain owners of something that I "forced" to buy if I want to make use of it. Bought a use license, it is mine. I will never work in the cloud, will never be owner of something even though I pay does not seem to me to belong. The rules of this game are not like this. The money is mine, the terms may be agreed, but never decided unilaterally in this way. And how spent my money to me belongs to decide. Digital photography existed before the CS and will exist without it. In these terms, nothing I want from this company. Their ridiculously high prices are not pleasent.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

5 upvotes

There was a time when no one owned their home phone. We had to rent it from the phone company.

2 upvotes

I've never used any Adobe products, because I've never been willing to pay their ridiculously high prices. There are other products out there that work well - some free, some for a reasonable price.

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

Their products are very good and generally worth the money. We tend to have a different feeling about software than we do about solid objects like cameras even though there is just as much manpower going into development.

0 upvotes

In this specific case it seems the contrary.
It's Adobe that doesn't want sell its software anymore as a solid product, but only force people to rent it as a service.
In your analogy, it would be like Canon or Nikon would stop to sell cameras and only rent them. Would you be happy with that?

Comment edited 11 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Depends on the price and upgrade policy! I am now on my D800E... and it will probably be my last purchase, since I am retired with very limited income now. I also think I will never change from my CS6 Creative Suite. Certainly will never buy into their cloud bs! I considered my income and my age and resigned myself that my last camera upgrade would most likely be my... last. Maybe (for a camera upgrade) it might make sense since I will probably be dead in the not too distant future!

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

I think Adobe has done a poor job in the presentation of a major shift in their distribution of the photography line of products. For a company that produces a generally excellent set of products, your demeaning attitude for the 'hobbyist' failed to respect those same customers. SHAME ON YOU. I will not spend the same amount of money on Adobe products as I have in the past since I don't think you CARE about the hobbyist nor acknowledge how they have DRIVEN the demand.

1 upvote

Windows 8 and Pontiac Aztec all over again. This time from Adobe....

When will these executives stop being dumb? It's clear what they are trying to do - prevent piracy of Adobe CS because they can't figure out how to structure licensing. So instead of doing what really needs to be done - making software cheaper and allowing more people to buy it, they are trying to force everyone into rental of software.

Good luck with that Adobe, and Winston Hendrickson - I hope you own some earplugs and a butt cushon! Because the amount of screaming and spanking you are going to receive after this move turns into a fiasco will be substantial.

Lightroom is not a replacement of Photoshop for photographers. We don't just process raw and put a copyright.... Many photographers use photoshop because it's not as stupidly slow as Lightroom and because we can do other types of work besides just processing images.

I'm not worried - someone will fill the void (too bad none of current converts don't suck.

2 upvotes

The difference is that the people who bought the Aztec actually liked it. Win 8 will probably be made palatable at some point; certainly no one is being forced to adopt it.

Adobe, OTOH, has chosen extortion as its new business model. To quote Monty Python, "Run away!"

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting

1 upvote

Didn't you read the statement from Bill Gates a day or two ago?
He said people are disappointed with iPad and android devices and will love making the move to his Windows 8 and his pad with a keyboard device. Can you believe he is one of the richest and most successful people out there? Yes... I guess he is living on the same planet as the execs from Adobe! Somewhere out there... WAY out there!

1 upvote

This is the holy grail for software companies: Keeping customers on the hook with monthly subscriptions...in perpetuity. Isn't that what Microsoft is doing with the latest version of Office? May both Adobe and Microsoft fail miserably with these ploys (think of the backlash Netflix experienced from their customers), and may some smart competitor step in to take advantage of the customer dissatisfaction.

3 upvotes

Nobody really needs MS Office unless your are a business. You can have most of it in iOS for 9.99 x 3 (pages, numbers, keynote)... PS is a different animal...imho

0 upvotes

LibreOffice. Cures the MS dependency. Works quite well.

As for Photoshop? That will take a bit more work. I do like Corel Painter, but it is a different kind of tool, and only partially fills the void.

1 upvote

i cannot wait until Adobe's validation server crashes leaving users out there unable to re-validate their license. this model has failed in the gaming industry and alienated users. the only good news is this will make it easier for competitors to get funding and encourage more development. this also seems to demotivate camera manufacturers from taking DNG seriously.

and this is the first time i have said this but shame on dpreview for tossing adobe a softball.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

9 upvotes

Total comments: 1547


Poll: What concerns you most about Adobe's move to subscription software? May 8, 2013	Adobe heralds subscription-only future for Photoshop and Creative Suite May 6, 2013	Adobe updates Creative Cloud with exclusive tools for Photoshop CC May 6, 2013	Adobe announces updates exclusive to Creative Cloud members Dec 11, 2012

	Samsung NX2000 May 1, 2013
	Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V Apr 24, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Apr 24, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Apr 24, 2013
	Ricoh GR Apr 17, 2013
	Samsung NX1100 Apr 11, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF6 Apr 9, 2013
	Fujifilm FinePix S8400W Mar 22, 2013
	Fujifilm FinePix XP200 Mar 22, 2013
	Canon EOS 100D (EOS Rebel SL1) Mar 21, 2013
	Canon EOS 700D (EOS Rebel T5i) Mar 21, 2013
	Canon PowerShot SX270 HS Mar 21, 2013
	Canon PowerShot SX280 HS Mar 21, 2013

Poll: who plans to pay for Adobe cloud software ?	150
Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing - ...	139
Recommended Photoshop Alternatives?	95
Adobe is WRONG!	85
Are we fooling ourselves?	69
Not completely satisfied with my X100S	57
Sold my RX100 - this is why	52
Lenses, sharpness, and image quality	51
From first effort at street.	50
All this Adobe flaming	49
M43 and DOF with a fast lens	44
24mp sensor for m43? 3.2micron pixel pitch!	44
When I increase the aperture my screen goes ...	42
Primes vs Zooms	38
Anybody out there who does not use Photoshop ...	37
Nikon 1 lens road map...anyone?	37
Alternative to Adobe software	35
A99 Short Film "Survival of the Fittest" Hi-ISO	32
Tempted by the price of the SAMYANG 14mm f2.8 ...	31
Nikor 24-120 F4	28

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