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Poll: What concerns you most about Adobe's move to subscriptions?

By dpreview staff on May 8, 2013 at 19:05 GMT

Adobe's decision to move to a subscription-based model for its professional creative software has prompted probably  the most impassioned response we've ever seen to a news story on dpreview.com. There's a risk that the sheer volume of comments might prevent a clear message being heard, so we've prepared a poll of the most common complaints, to help establish what your biggest concerns are.

While there's every chance you are uncomfortable with a number of aspects of Adobe's decision, we want to know what's most pressing. So please vote for the factor that is of greatest concern to you and we'll communicate the results to Adobe.

Comments

Total comments: 2478
23456
alabaster
By alabaster (11 months ago)

We all have to pay the rent for this:

http://www.facebook.com/AdobeInUtah
http://officesnapshots.com/2013/02/21/adobe-utah-campus-office-design/

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
Toermalijn
By Toermalijn (11 months ago)

The page is gone...All of a sudden, makes you think...

1 upvote
artlmntl
By artlmntl (11 months ago)

The pages are both still there. I would not like to work at that office!

0 upvotes
Norman B
By Norman B (11 months ago)

I was planning on buying LR or Elements in the fall when I upgraded my computer from XP to Windows 7. That should tell you I am a hobbyist and do not need the latest bling including photo editing software.

I am watching this with interest. It seems to me that it is only a matter of time before LR and Elements are available by subscription only with unreasonable terms and conditions. The ball is in Adobe's court but I am a potential customer with the money. Time will tell if Adobe wants my money or not.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
razadaz
By razadaz (11 months ago)

There are no shortage of options at this level. Also, Phase One offer a product that many believe is superior to lightroom.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

You are right. We cannot even trust that they will allow us to use our own Lightroom files in the future. As they have shown, when they want to rewrite the rules to their benefit, they will.

5 upvotes
Vandyu
By Vandyu (11 months ago)

Microsoft started the ball rolling with its word processing software update for 2013. Must pay every year for it, one computer instead of three uses, etc. etc. All companies are seeing green when in reality they are oozing greed. Can't even get a soft drink on an air flight anymore. Greed + power = corruption. Maybe Adobe's move will lead to a return to film!!

2 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

This is wrong. Word 365 requires subscription. Word 2013 is standalone (although apparently only if you have Windows 8). I know. I have installed the standalone Office just last weekend. Many people have been conned into buying the wrong product. But Microsoft IS still offering the choice although they seem sorely tempted not to.

Again, as with Adobe, part of the reason for this is they want steady revenue even though upgrades are minor and looking less and less compelling.

In terms of Office, I will stick with an old version rather than go on the subscription model.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 13 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
nonuniform
By nonuniform (11 months ago)

The interesting thing about Microsoft Office? I don't use it anymore. I use Google Docs.

Most of us will find an alternative to Photoshop that will offer 80% of the features and quality we need. The alternatives will be free, or very low cost.

Adobe is already shifting its revenue into the media business - online ads, analytics, etc.

They'll de-invest in the software products, making them niche products, and eventually, wait for it...

They'll sell the whole software division to Autodesk.

0 upvotes
rarufu
By rarufu (11 months ago)

Seems i have to thank you all, i just bought paintshop pro and i am really amazed because it contains all i need for retouche, liquify tool, makeup/skin retouche, eye whitening, teeth whitening, crop tool....
I did not know that before - a big thanks to Adobe also for waking me up.

RAW conversion is done before by CNX or Capture One 7 which is my favorite due to it's great demosaicing and detail rendering plus leading adaptive denoising which sets all my Nikon Cameras 1 class UP.

Do i really need Photoshop CS6 ? i guess NO, does Lightroom give me all necessary abilities as a very enthusiastic hobbyist, that wants to become a professional ? NO.

15 upvotes
dennis mol
By dennis mol (11 months ago)

We are Lovers spurned by a fickle Abobe who cares only for our money

0 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

This takes me back to the time when copy protection on some products was so restrictive and crippling (dongles and such) that the pirated version was the one with the "added value". I know many users who bought legit licenses of certain software, but actually ran a pirated one. Except now, people won't "rent" the legit one.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting
14 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (11 months ago)

I have like three (3) Windows XP Licenses,
but I used a cracked copy
because it never asks for the Activation
and I can change my HW at will, install it to a new PC, etc
AND I REALLY HAVE THE NEEDED LICENSES
not sold to anyone, old HD stockpiled (7 of them)
not torrented or uploaded - just used locally for convenience
------------
FYI: I'm using W8 now - the XP in use is in my main backup PC

2 upvotes
SemperAugustus
By SemperAugustus (11 months ago)

I have also unsubscribed from all PS related channels in You Tube and subscribed to Corel Paint Shop Pro channel.

5 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

And, even when they haver GOT your subscription:

" Customer agrees that Adobe may change the type of Software (such as specific components, versions, platforms, languages, etc.) included in the Subscription Edition at any time and shall not be liable to Customer whatsoever for such change."

In other words, we have no obligation to tou whatsoever.

9 upvotes
Clyde Thomas
By Clyde Thomas (11 months ago)

MUST READ: "Adobe Creative Cloud: Lopsided Legal Agreement" from diglloyd.

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html

Very very scary stuff. They can steal your web site, control it, and even give it to someone else. They can update user agreement without your knowledge. They can remove your content for any reason. They can cancel your account for any reason, and no reason.

They claim ability to do this even if it is in violation of your country laws. They think they are above the law.

Goodbye Devil.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
14 upvotes
Vince P
By Vince P (11 months ago)

Just for some balance this only applies if you chose to let Adobe host your web site and then stop paying. It's pretty much like every web hosting service. That agreement looks pretty standard. the cloud service should give more protection in a lot of jurisdictions (I don't know about the US) because you are paying for an on-going service rather than a product that you have already paid for so they have a continuing responsibility.

1 upvote
Falconest174
By Falconest174 (11 months ago)

I removed the word 'sabotage' from a comment replied to earlier in this thread. From what I just read that is the word I should have used. This might open them to a serious legal challenge as to whether they can make unannounced changes to another persons property (our PC's), despite their contractual 'permission' to do so. It amounts to a form of extortion.

1 upvote
OBI656
By OBI656 (11 months ago)

Running commercial photo studio comes to $20 000.00/year + plus + expenses in total of approximately $40-50 000.00 a year. Not mentioning that I own it means $750 000.00 investment in property another $200 000.00 in equipment. I am truly watching a literally every dollar to be competitive. I must be efficient and I must know that there is return on my dollar. The Photoshop CC concept simply does not provide this basic business incentive. It is a money-drainage. If I will do upgrade three times in next 10 years that will be apron 1 000.00 - 1 500.00 Doll. If I will go with subscription it will be 6 000.00.
Someone may say o’well 4 500.00 Doll big deal. It is a big deal. Big Time !

6 upvotes
SemperAugustus
By SemperAugustus (11 months ago)

Somehow ADBE CEO claims that CC is all about delivering more value to you....

5 upvotes
photo_rb
By photo_rb (11 months ago)

So you are spending $200k on equipment. Is $6k or 1/33 the amount an unreasonable cost for software you probably use as often as your cameras and lenses? I can understand the complaints of hobbyists but not professionals.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

Professionals do not rent and give themselves recurring overheads when they can BUY cheaper.

5 upvotes
photo_rb
By photo_rb (11 months ago)

There are a lot of financial reasons a professional might rent rather than buy and remember this is a tax deductible expense. But all things being equal, of course you take the cheapest route when you can.

2 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

Where I am, buying is a tax deductible expense too. So tax does nothing to change the pricing balance. Meanwhile we pay the Adobe tax. The accountants in the large TV company with which I work are NOT going to give themselves an uncontrollable expense that can be changed unilaterally. That's not how they think. The company doesn't even see the need to upgrade beyond Word 95.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
photo_rb
By photo_rb (11 months ago)

Not worth arguing about but depending where you live it can be taxed differently. CCA vs. straight deduction.

1 upvote
Primrose Wood
By Primrose Wood (11 months ago)

There can be few home users or authors who need anything beyond Word 95. It's the same with hammers: my grandfather's hammer still does a great job and needs no enhancements.

3 upvotes
Vince P
By Vince P (11 months ago)

The subscription is not $50 a month for photographers and you cant only upgrade 3 times in 10 years as they now only allow single version upgrades so you have to upgrade 5 - 7 times at least.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Toermalijn
By Toermalijn (11 months ago)

Yup, it's not only going cloud, but they bumped up the prices considerably as well. And for what? They don't even commit now to fix bugs completely. There's always bugs left for next upgrades, wink, wink.....

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
OBI656
By OBI656 (11 months ago)

"So you are spending $200k on equipment" ... I rent but mostly I prefer to buy. It depends on business proposition. It is always 100% about $$$.
$200 Thousand is not to much if you consider complete Bron light system ( studio + location ) with large light-banks and Hassy H4D-60 with six lenses + “some” accessories. On top of it I have Canon DSLR system with about 16 lenses. Frankly ? Those $200’s is very tight.
I do not mention other things but again. I count every dollar in my business.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
photo_rb
By photo_rb (11 months ago)

I didn't say that was a lot to spend, what I said was 6K on Adobe software that you use all the time was a small percentage of the total. You want to complain, why not complain about ridiculous pricing on your Bron system. Oh but it's made in Germany...it has to be expensive!

0 upvotes
Rick DeBari
By Rick DeBari (11 months ago)

A new article titled "Unhappy Customers Want to Parachute From Adobe’s Creative Cloud" was just posted on Wired.com about an hour ago which references the 5,000+ signatures on the change.org petition to keep packaged software.

Here's the link: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/05/adobe-creative-cloud-petition/

Comment edited 15 seconds after posting
1 upvote
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

5,000 signatures.

Adobe reports 12.8 million CS suite or single-product CS users.

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

Adobe also reports that 90% of their users are thrilled with this change and 4 out 5 doctors who chew gum reccomend Dentyne.

4 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

"Adobe reports ..." And we believe Adobe because so far they have shown a huge amount of honesty and ethical behaviour. ;)

4 upvotes
SemperAugustus
By SemperAugustus (11 months ago)

Hey tdptroll!
I haven't signed because i don't believe in petitions, but rest assured that ADBE will not see one fckg penny from me unless hey reverse this.

5 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

News for the tdp shill. Many of my friends who use Adobe products have been unaware of Adobe's plans. And couldn't believe it when I told them. But I am acting as an evangelist for Adobe. I am spreading the news to them. You don't need to thank me.

8 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

Keep getting petitioners signed up there, Marc. If you're good you might get to 0.1% of the customer base.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

And if Adobe is lucky they won't lose 19 out of 20 of their users. My bet is they will. And YOU will be paying to take up the slack. So shill on.

3 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

So what you are saying tdp is that Adobe does not give a damn about customer dissatisfaction (even through they currently pretend they are addressing our concerns). But then, we already know that. Or haven't you been reading these threads?

2 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

They can pretend, but read their forecasts. From 12.8 million suite and point product users to 1.25 million paid subscribers at the end of the year.

They know full well they're shedding some customers, and have decided that they'll have an easier time staying in business without them.

1 upvote
JamesInCA
By JamesInCA (11 months ago)

They have, what, 500k CC subscribers now?

So they're risking a user base of 12.8 million based on favorable results from 4% of them?

The projection of 1.25 million by the end of the year is, firstly, no longer reliable. The context has changed now that people know it's the *only* option, where the forecast was made based on it being *an* option. Customer response can't be assumed to be the same in both contexts.

Secondly, 1.25 million is still only 10% of the reported total user base. Even if they hit 1.25mm, that doesn't mean there will be future uptake sufficient to replace customers who choose to leave (which, unfortunately, is hard to measure).

2 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

They explicitly reaffirmed their forecast on May 6:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130506005426/en/Adobe-Reaffirms-Q2-FY2013-Financial-Targets

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

Time was, evangelist meant spreading the word of God. Now we're spreading something a little different, no? I'm not religious but I'm still offended by the gall of these salespeople.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

Forecasts are like a holes. Anyone can have one. Enjoy paying for those of us who drop out.

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

This guy is so naive he actually trusts Adobe. And we know now where that gets you. Forecasts are made to bluff shareholders. They did not forecast their 15% drop in fiscal-third-quarter profit in 2011, their 21% profit drop for the first quarter of last year. Or that their share price increases would be lower than the Standard and Poor Average for this year.

3 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

It's hard being dumped as a customer, so I can understand your distress.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

You misunderstand who is getting dumped.

4 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

tdp should look up "Stockholm Syndrome".

At the end of the first quarter this year, Adobe reported a 64.8% drop in quarterly earnings on higher expenses and lower product revenue. However, even THAT was above Wall Street expectations.

Earnings for the first quarter were $65.12 million or $0.13 per share, compared to $185.21 million or $0.37 per share last year. Adjusted earnings per share (EPS) declined to $0.35 from $0.57.

Revenue decreased 3.6% to $1.008 billion, due to lower products revenue offsetting increase subscription, and services and support revenues.

Adobe have LOST more in product purchases than they have gained in subscriptions. And that was when they still offered a choice. Products revenue fell to $675.79 million from $808.52 million (133 million loss), while subscription revenue grew to $224.27 million from $146.23 million (78 million profit).

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
crow24
By crow24 (11 months ago)

I accidently ended up with a CC trial when I went to Adobe to find my software downloads (that I paid for). After much chatting with a nice person in India...I think the CC trial is still on. I wonder how many of the new CC users are intended. It was way to easy to stumble into that mess.

2 upvotes
Falconest174
By Falconest174 (11 months ago)

Adobe has gone the way of so many corporations these days. The way of the fastest profit growth for this financial cycle. Who cares about tomorrow, let it take care of itself. Well, in financial circles planning ahead is a good idea, and I am not sure the board at Adobe looked far enough beyond today's profit sheet to tomorrow's financial collapse when customers leave them in droves when they see their PC's damaged by buggy 'updates' that bork peoples systems, or CC features that fail to deliver due to sudden file incompatabilities. This is a disaster waiting to happen.

1 upvote
chrismmmm
By chrismmmm (11 months ago)

This is also a total betrayel of developers of plugins and other addins for Adobe products.

Having relied on a over-the-counter distribution model which covered an enormous market which made plugin development financially feasible. No doubt Adobe's market will contract to it's hard core base or those who simply are chained by sheer investment volume.

I predict the actual user market particularly for new sales will contract and so will the plugin/developer market. Who would invest in developing plugins for an application whose availability has gone from universal to a subscription.

Actually, if anything, old versions of Adobe's products will become prized and torrents will become the way sadly.

Adobe, you just threw fuel on the fire then walked into it.

8 upvotes
crow24
By crow24 (11 months ago)

I've been wondering about that aspect too. I made some comments but I think everyone is still dealing with PS...plugins haven't been given the attention they deserve.

2 upvotes
RobertSigmund
By RobertSigmund (11 months ago)

I have already given up on one piece of software from Adobe. That was when they wanted to force their customers to go Dreamweaver instead of GoLive. I did not like to be extorted and switched to Expression Web. I tell you: it was not easy with my huge Website, but finally I succeeded, and it is OK now. It will also be a lot of work to replace Photoshop, but again I will make it. I have already given up ACR as RAW developer. Dxo and Photo Ninja are much better in this field. Essentially, Photoshop is nowadays a carrier for my plugins, and then there is the fact that most books and net resources teaching pp is based on Photoshop. So it will not be easy, but again, I will make the transition. In the long run, this will save me a lot of money, so in a certain way I can be thankful to the greedy corporate sharks or Adobe. In a certain way, I regret it. I am sure guys like the Knoll brothers or Russell Brown are nice chaps, but others have the saying now. Adobe has lost its mojo.

14 upvotes
newe
By newe (11 months ago)

People forget that all recent CS versions are cloud in that you must activate anyway...if you want to move to a new machine Adobe may say no anyway. I like what they did with CS2...they provided an activation free version this year. Perhaps they could do this for later versions eventually for those who do not want or cannot afford Adobe CC.

1 upvote
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

you completely missed the point but yes they need to be activated once.
or again when you buy a new system.

anyway.. this "subscription" thing is different.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
7 upvotes
newe
By newe (11 months ago)

yes I know...but my point was that Adobe could have shut you down any time they wanted anyway...just not every few months or so.

1 upvote
W5JCK
By W5JCK (11 months ago)

That activation free version of CS2 was falsely reported. It never happened.

0 upvotes
razadaz
By razadaz (11 months ago)

try this link
http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/creative-suite-2-activation-end-life.html

1 upvote
newe
By newe (11 months ago)

It most certainly did happen...not falsely reported:

http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html?PID=361116

2 upvotes
JDSA
By JDSA (11 months ago)

Just made my last Adobe purchase (under the current conditions) by upgrading my Windows PS CS5 to CS6. Now both Windows and Macs are running the same version.

I barely use PS on Windows but I didn't want to miss the chance to own a perpetual PS CS6 license. I would much rather spend $200 on an upgrade I won't use much than suck up to the new Adobe feudal system.

With a 5D mark III and CS6 I'm set for a very long time. Apparently Adobe would rather not do business with a casual user. After all, the only thing I do for them is to occasionally buy some software from them. I don't need the monthly bills and I'm not interested in any Adobe product other than Photoshop.

7 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

This seems perfectly reasonable and rational to me. Adobe is not interested in a casual user and you are only interested in Photoshop. You go your separate ways, the end. There is no betrayal, lack of trust or other heartbreak.

0 upvotes
kymarto
By kymarto (11 months ago)

I looked at the Adobe store in Hong Kong hoping to upgrade my CS5 to CS6 but the upgrade doesn't seem to be available anymore.

0 upvotes
Mr Fartleberry
By Mr Fartleberry (11 months ago)

I just dumped my cable TV. Because every month I was paying and paying for an extra outlet. Year after year. And they had the gaul to jack up the price of the splitter and cable earlier this year. It was paid for in a few months but that was many years ago.

Lets hope the photo magazines smell the stink from the new Adobe outhouse and stop promoting their program in their magazines. Readers should let them know it's time to move on from promoting Adobe to photographers.

5 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

TV rots your brain.

1 upvote
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

then you should have stopped watching years ago tdptdp... ;)

4 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (11 months ago)

Adobe love clearly rots some people's brains.

4 upvotes
Heleno Costa
By Heleno Costa (11 months ago)

What about a daily subscribe option for U$ 1-2 . For sure, I would pay for it!

1 upvote
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

well that would still translate to 20 euros in europe i guess.....

adobe is just robbing us here in europe...

not that a cheaper price would change my mind about the CC crap.....

3 upvotes
mikesco
By mikesco (11 months ago)

There you go, $1 for 1 app or $3 for the suite, as I need, I could live with that myself. It would be the only way I could see the cloud being a benefit for the casual user. Unfortunately Adobe would want around triple these rates, if they even considered it at all.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
Falconest174
By Falconest174 (11 months ago)

Daily sub? $1 a day translates to $30 mo. for the suite at $3 that translates to $90 mo. (USD)
Do you really want that??

0 upvotes
mikesco
By mikesco (11 months ago)

I think that model would work well for most casual users. I tend to do my work in batches. I likely use Photoshop for editing no more than 50 days per year and could likely compress that. So yeah, I could handle that price, it would work out cheaper for me than the current perpetual upgrade method.

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
mikesco
By mikesco (11 months ago)

I also realize that this model would not address all of the concerns people are bring up, but I think at this price point it would satisfy most here if they truly thought about how they use Photoshop. I believe that most are mad, including myself, because we want to be able to use the best. The old upgrade program was at the edge of affordability for us casual users, and this subscription rate at how we use it, cannot be justified and we feel ripped off and left behind. If we could subscribe as we need a day at a time for $1 a day even if we had to do it with a 30 use card or something along those lines, I think it would make it a fair offering for us casual users and not alienate us.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
RichPate
By RichPate (11 months ago)

What really irks most folks is that Adobe has raised prices (as much as a 50% equivalent), reduced their product offering (no PS Standard Edition) and taken away our choices. I, for one, don't want to be locked into monthly payments for life.

What we really want is another choice -- something cheaper and with an exit option, if needed.

The best option I can think of is making the $10/mo. intro subscription price permanent for a "Standard Edition" of PS (no 3D), and then after two years of subscribing, qualifying us to opt-out for $50 while providing us a permanent license to the previous year's version. This isn't ideal, but at least it's something "better."

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
4 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

They have raised them more than four times if you previously followed an alternate version upgrade path. Forget the introductory offer.

2 upvotes
fotobo
By fotobo (11 months ago)

When time to upgrade, I will look into other options and let my money speak where it counts. Adobe, you are T.Rex and heading to extinction soon.

7 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

i noticed that on forums more and more adobe people are writing.... making good PR for adobe:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=367787

"Yes it's official info - I'm an ACP, we speak to the user community on behalf of Adobe but we're not sales reps."

they seem to be pretty desperate to get this through and convince customers.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Mr Fartleberry
By Mr Fartleberry (11 months ago)

No kidding. A lot of people have do-do in their pants now, especially that rich NAPP guy.

2 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

scott kelby is a multi millionair.. he could just retire today.
of course you never can have enough money....

1 upvote
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

It's always fascinating to watch when the angry mob turns irrationally insane.

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

I don't think the marketing staff at Adobe are insane. But I do think they underestimated the backlash.

0 upvotes
SteveJL
By SteveJL (11 months ago)

WOW! and WTHF? This link

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html

posted by Henry M. Hertz REALLY deserves a look as it truly portrays the level of Evil this move represents. NOT COOL AT ALL ADOBE. Takes everything to a hole new level.

10 upvotes
Stefanie
By Stefanie (11 months ago)

I'm 30 years in IT and vave never seen anything as restrictive and manipulative than this. Some of these paragraphs really look like they could be legally challenged.
Another reason to step away from Adobe.

6 upvotes
InTheMist
By InTheMist (11 months ago)

Ominous. Thanks for the heads-up.

2 upvotes
RobertSigmund
By RobertSigmund (11 months ago)

Wooow. I am a jurist. This makes my hair stand up. No one within reason shall bow to these conditions!

2 upvotes
SteveJL
By SteveJL (11 months ago)

Yes to all the above. The company I worked for would NEVER in a million years let their staff agree to these terms. I worked in IT and have also never seen anything like these. This is worse than costing more, having to be connected, or not having a physical product. Far, far worse.

3 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (11 months ago)

Adobe goes ROBBERY BUSINESS.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Pat Cullinan Jr
By Pat Cullinan Jr (11 months ago)

THIS IS AN OUTRAGEOUS PROVOCATION, AN ABSURD IMPOSITION!

That does it! Till now, I was straddling the fence, BUT NOW I WASH MY HANDS OF ADOBE FOR KEEPS!

0 upvotes
L Bradford
By L Bradford (11 months ago)

I would prefer to see Adobe out of business. This company redefines the word Thiefs......

9 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

Thieves, indeed.

1 upvote
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

The history of corporations - when studied over a period of a hundred years - does show that corporations like Adobe do go out of business.

The Adobe CEO either doesn't study history, or he can't care a stuff since he makes $12 million a year and is set up for life.

0 upvotes
morepix
By morepix (11 months ago)

Don't forget to direct some of your ire at Scott Kelby too -- for example, boycott his training. He's cozily in bed with those #&@! Adobe crooks/robbers/villains ... . Remember, "The friend of my enemy is my enemy."

7 upvotes
Gregm61
By Gregm61 (11 months ago)

Yep, and you can bet most of the people attending his seminars are not people making a living with this software, because they already know how to use it. It's the very hobbyists Adobe is now trying to leave behind with the new pricing model, unless they (we) are willing to pay up.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting
6 upvotes
Dale Garman
By Dale Garman (11 months ago)

I wish we could have this discussion without the personal animus. I hate what Adobe is doing, so am not an apologist at all. But I also think Scott Kelby is an honorable man who has built a business around supporting Adobe products and now Adobe had just launched a torpedo below water line at his business. Maybe Scott doesn't realize it yet, but most of his members will likely not go forward with Adobe.

From his grid broadcast I believe he warned Adobe and maybe even pleaded with them to take another path. So now he is left trying to do the best he can while his business model implodes around him. By the way this move implodes a lot of other peoples business models as well. Scott has absolutely no control over Adobe decisions. He may advise them, but advice is way different than decision making power.

I will not ascribe malice to Scott

7 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (11 months ago)

Exactly! It is the low budget new pros and amateurs that make up the majority of Kelby's customer base for his CS training materials that are being priced out of the market by Adobe's subscription model. Plus almost no one commenting on his article about it is happy with Kelby's support of Adobe on this matter and some are even threatening to leave NAPP over it. It is possible Kelby and Adobe are going to go down together on this one.

Kelby is in an awkward position of having to support adobe because his business and entire brand identity depends on his relationship with them while at the same time knowing most of his customers and NAPP members are royally screwed by the new pricing model.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

but but.. scott kelby is a nice guy and when he says the cloud is great then this sure must be true?

or wait.... you mean the multi millionair scott kelby who alwaya pretends to be a normal user who has to pay for all his gear... like everyone else?

3 upvotes
RobertSigmund
By RobertSigmund (11 months ago)

I have mentioned it in a thread I started: I thought Kelby is a decent guy, just like Calvin Hollywood. Now their credibility goes away. I understand them, of course: they are not happy at all, but in order to keep their income source as well as possible, they have to pretend!

1 upvote
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

well i don´t know if he is .... or if he plays one....

1 upvote
Leon V
By Leon V (11 months ago)

I am a NAPP member and have enjoyed it for years. I did KelbyTraining, their seminars, Photoshop World, the works.

However, from now on all these seminars, training, etc., will be about Photoshop CC which will be useless to me. I am going to use my purchased copy of CS6 for the rest of my life. SO, I will not renew my membership to NAPP; it will be useless to me from now on.

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

Geesh. If you've ever worked in this business (as I have) or any buisness, you know that sooner or later--and usually sooner--things get cozy. I got everything from sushi to free trips. What I'm saying is, don't subscribe to NAPP Magazine or Pop Photo unless you want to hear how absolutely great everything is.

1 upvote
Josh152
By Josh152 (11 months ago)

@Henry M. Hertz

I have the same feelings about Kelby. Just who does he think he is kidding? Of course Adobe gives him free stuff and even if they didn't he makes so much money through Kelby Media Group ( his media company and real business he is only a photographer to lend credibility to his training materials) it is just a tax write off for him making the software basically free for him anyway.

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
hullodare
By hullodare (11 months ago)

Pixelmator has no windows version. Otherwise I would look at it.

0 upvotes
leomartinez
By leomartinez (11 months ago)

Well, adobe to look like I'm not against you here as I give you an idea: once in the cloud, if the rental system does still not work at all from the buisnes perspective, you can start introducing advertising in the "art board" and in the "work space".

0 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (11 months ago)

Adobe already thought About That.
Read THE fuc**n license agreement.....

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Bart Eleveld
By Bart Eleveld (11 months ago)

Let's face it, they are changing their business model from selling you a permanent product to that of renting you a tool (or perhaps selling you a perishable service). If that model is repugnant to consumers, it is very likely that a new provider will surface to fill the void. Vote with your wallet.

13 upvotes
leomartinez
By leomartinez (11 months ago)

What I concern the most is the " I can do whatever I want because everybody is tied to me" actitud.

Adobe, the users have helped you to develop your software and certainly we are ready any time soon to do it again but with other software company.

You are taking away from me all the hard earned knowledge when you force me to go on the rented service bulls... So right now, I don't have nothing to loose.

Clouds is not for people who have his feets on the earth.

12 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

+1

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html

Comment edited 18 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Markintosh
By Markintosh (11 months ago)

this is just crazy fine print!

1 upvote
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

READ THIS:

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html

7 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

Coming from Lloyd Chambers, that's the funniest thing I've seen all day. Thanks!

3 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

yeahl well it is in fact more CREEPY then funny.

in fact you are a slave... you have the right to pay but otherwise you have no rights.

4 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

In a very similar fashion to Lloyd's subscription-only books?

3 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

what he does makes adobes wrongdoings not better.

you may say "the pot calling the kettle black... but it doesn´t change the facts!!

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
jmkoh
By jmkoh (11 months ago)

Thanks for posting this.

1 upvote
a5519
By a5519 (11 months ago)

I didn't read usually these different "terms", but the link simply shows what a sh*t are we customers in the eyes of Adobe.

2 upvotes
Markintosh
By Markintosh (11 months ago)

this is just crazy!

1 upvote
arhmatic
By arhmatic (11 months ago)

Thanks for the entertainment, Adobe and dpreview...

I am here solely for the comments.

7 upvotes
InTheMist
By InTheMist (11 months ago)

Like watching a train crash in slow motion again and again and again...

6 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (11 months ago)

Nah, you can't see the slow motion unless you subscribe to Adobe Premiere CC ...

14 upvotes
robogobo
By robogobo (11 months ago)

From a practical perspective, it isn't just the cost or the need to keep paying, but the fact that we're going to be continuously paying for an unknown product. How much time passes between updates? Are those updates worth the money paid in the interim? What's Adobe's motivation for updating if everyone has to pay even if they don't make any improvements? None really. They could stop fixing bugs the way they did with CS3, or consider 5.5 a real major update, which it was not. There's no real value. That's the problem.

Comment edited 15 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
DustyWalker
By DustyWalker (11 months ago)

My main concern is that Adobe become the owner and get a right on my PSD if I stop paying subscription. PSD files are my job and not Adobe's !
PSD files are what I save with the original. Jpg are juste for printing. I often restart a job later from my PSD.
That is the reason why I won't go to CC. Why could Adobe get a right on my job ?

2 upvotes
arhmatic
By arhmatic (11 months ago)

If they start with this pricing now, which in general marketing sense, are supposed to be just introductory prices, just imagine what the pricing would be in a few years, once everyone is stuck in the cloud!

4 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (11 months ago)

I believe last year it was USD $199/month for the CX6 Master Suite. Now it's $49.99/month.

There's also a thing called the churn factor, ie how many of those signing up now on the upgrade offer of $29.99/month for the first year (like myself) will actually renew again at the higher $49.99 or just revert back to their old versions, and so will Adobe be forced to incentivize with special offers or even drop the price again.

2 upvotes
Mark2008
By Mark2008 (11 months ago)

Oh, how we love the cable television pricing schemes. I was hoping to find more chances to partake of this delightful paradigm, and here comes Adobe to the rescue.

1 upvote
Stu 5
By Stu 5 (11 months ago)

anthony mazzeri they didn't have give over 1/2 million people any incentives who have already signed up before the announcement this week. Those people see it as very good value.

0 upvotes
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

Good luck making a profit on one in twenty of your original customer base Stu5. Guess they'll be happy to pay more to make up for those who have walked. If it was such good value, Adobe would only gain from offering the choice, because customers would do the maths themselves.

2 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (11 months ago)

Yes but Stu, I'd wager most of those users are in multi-seat professional outfits who can monetize Adobe software to profit from it so that's all the incentive they need. You can see from all Adobe's material about 'collaboration' and 'teams' and 'sharing' that this is their intended market.

Most people here though are individuals/hobbyists with just one computer and use maybe just one or two Adobe apps only who subsidize it by other means, so it's not beneficial at all to become locked into a rental scheme, or even have cloud features at all.

You can see from Adobe's "for Individuals' marketing page on their website that they are actually struggling to define the benefits of the Creative Cloud to sell it to these types of users, because in all honesty there isn't actually any benefit. The best I can see they can come up with is a video of a guy using his iPad on a morning commute bus and its waiting for him on work computer when he arrives.

1 upvote
BurningChrome
By BurningChrome (11 months ago)

I really thought a long time which single point to check, but it is not possible. All of them apply and a few more.... This certainly is a deal breaker for me.
Sadly I changed my workflow from NX2 to LR last year. I can see, that Adobe is going the Cloud Way with LR6. No way for me. So I will need to start the evalution of RAW Converters again.... Not to speak of PS....

1 upvote
DustyWalker
By DustyWalker (11 months ago)

My main concern is that Adobe become the owner and get a right on my PSD if I stop paying subscription. PSD files are my job and not Adobe's !
PSD files are what I save with the original. Jpg are juste for printing. I often restart a job later from my PSD.
That is the reason why I won't go to CC. Why could Adobe get a right on my job ?

1 upvote
wanderingval
By wanderingval (11 months ago)

all of it :(((
Having to repeatedly pay to retain access
and
Adobe's pricing is too high (for occasional user)
and
The need to occasionally connect to the Internet/Cloud
and
Uncertainty over future of Adobe or pricing

5 upvotes
jjl
By jjl (11 months ago)

I think what has people so upset is that Adobe is turning us from owners into renters. It's an emotional thing - people expect to pay money for something, and it's theirs. Now, Adobe is saying "well, really, it's ours... but you can borrow it as long as you pay". It feels like Adobe is saying they don't trust their customers, or that they know what's best for us.

I can understand why Adobe did this. Despite what they're saying, I'm sure it was driven by two things - a more stable revenue stream, and a deterrent to theft.

Actually, a lot of institutional users I'm sure will welcome this. It will work like most of their other software, and be much easier to budget the expense. There will no longer be some question about when the next release comes out, or if you should pay to get it. But for the rest of us? It pretty much sucks.

6 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

As a small shop, Cloud is the difference between a pretty big CAPEX expenditure that spikes every 12-18 months and a reliable OPEX expenditure that doesn't require either depreciation or a Section 179 election.

I can see how it's super annoying to many users, but from a business perspective I love it.

1 upvote
Alex French photographer
By Alex French photographer (11 months ago)

That is one way of managing a business but not the only way! Limiting your fixed costs and increasing your variable costs might increase your flexibility but, for businesses that do not constantly evolve, at the end of the day you might still end up paying more to get something that you don't really need! Constantly upgrading seems to be a trend (mainly with technological devices) but, in most cases, it is not a necessity!
As a business owner, I am not necessarily happy, I would be happier if I could decide which I want for example get a full desktop version if/when I decide to and maybe get a subscription based one for my temps or summer interns.
As a business owner, and in financial terms I hate it when my discounted cost (cash flow of my cost discounted by my cost of capital) exceeds my one off cost!

2 upvotes
kymarto
By kymarto (11 months ago)

It will be no deterrent to theft, actually. It's all about ensuring a revenue stream without the imperative to actually improve the product to get that revenue. It's actually forcing people who own a CS product license to pay for it all over again, and for those who don't--they never will, no matter how much they pay.

5 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

No doubt Alex, it's entirely dependent on your needs. I have incoming client art that comes in a variety of formats, and have a short window to support updates. If you're in a position to run a revision or two back, that changes the cost calculation substantially.

0 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html

1 upvote
MarcLee
By MarcLee (11 months ago)

Adobe have admitted it does not deter theft. Except by Adobe. Add to which, they like the subscription model because it's getting harder and harder to make minor upgrades look tempting enough for people to jump in. They want us to pay MORE, forever, for less.

2 upvotes
kymarto
By kymarto (11 months ago)

I believe this will be a blessing in disguise, and will break Adobe's stranglehold on the industry by allowing some viable alternatives to rise. In video editing, Premiere is hardly the only game in town--hardly in the game professionally, really. Let's see what alternatives pop up in the next few years, and in the meantime get your files out of psd format.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Tom DeMita
By Tom DeMita (11 months ago)

Adobes' stock went down 3 points in 3 days. What happened 3 days ago?

7 upvotes
thomas2279f
By thomas2279f (11 months ago)

It's up a bit today.... just waiting for revenue to drop long term...?

0 upvotes
Tom DeMita
By Tom DeMita (11 months ago)

43.91
-0.06 (-0.14%)
Real-time: 12:15PM EDT

0 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (11 months ago)

Yeah, looks fun if you view the past week ... but look back a month, and they are still higher than they were 4 weeks ago; 12 weeks ago; more.

0 upvotes
arhmatic
By arhmatic (11 months ago)

Can't remember either...

At some point they were getting rid of 99% of their users. Maybe thaaat's it...

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

I hope you guys aren't making investment decisions based on something most people don't even know about and while the stock market is at it's all-time high.

0 upvotes
caro
By caro (11 months ago)

Inadvertently, Adobe gave us opportunity to standardize version of the software we use in the industry.
In my organization CS6 will be the last version designers and freelancers will be allowed to use for our projects. All jobs submitted in later formats will be rejected.
The end of forced upgrades!

13 upvotes
Markintosh
By Markintosh (11 months ago)

:) no more changes in Media Kits — CS 6 will stay standard requirements from now on.

1 upvote
Biowizard
By Biowizard (11 months ago)

I haven't paid any money to Kodak for several years. They sent a bailiff round to take all my 35mm transparencies away so I can never see them again. And now that Kodak has gone bust, I can't even get my slides back by paying.

Twilight Zone? Or simply the New Reality. Thanks, Adobe, NOT.

7 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (11 months ago)

Don't save in an Adobe only format.

2 upvotes
Geniet
By Geniet (11 months ago)

As the concept 'Zone' arises, 'Lightzone' is now transformed to: Open-source digital darkroom software for Windows/Mac/Linux
Personally I am most pleased using it.

0 upvotes
dinoSnake
By dinoSnake (11 months ago)

@HowaboutRAW

What you don't understand is that in some Adobe products - InDesign for example - you don't HAVE a choice of file format to save your projects to. In InDesign you have INDD files - period.

So if you create a project using ID CC, then must save in INDD format, then stop your subscription, you have...nothing. Nada. ZILCH. You can't open your project and NOTHING on the planet can, either. You are 100% a complete hostage to Adobe's subscription policy.

1 upvote
Biowizard
By Biowizard (11 months ago)

dinoSnake, sure you can save your FINISHED work in TIF, PNG - or even the ancient PCX format. But these files will not contain all your separate layers, adjustments, vector text, and so on, ready to edit further. It's the same with InDesign: you can save to PDF (which you can then render to TIF, PNG, PCX if you want in Photoshop), but you'll lose your editable, adjustable file.

It's the fact that loss of access to CC would mean loss of access to YOUR SOURCE DOCUMENTS, Your IPR, that sticks in the craw. Of course your derivative works will be perfectly printable and viewable forever more.

2 upvotes
chillgreg
By chillgreg (11 months ago)

HowaboutRAW just looooves displaying his ignorant arrogance, spraying it all over DPR like a noxious weed.

0 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (11 months ago)

@dinoSnake, I've read that Quark XPress has an INDD importer plugin if you want to switch over.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (11 months ago)

chillgreg:

While I certainly wouldn't claim to know the entire CS, this is a digital photo website, so what I wrote applies here. And my comments about Mac and Android remain perfectly valid.

dinoSnake:

You have a point and I don't claim to know the entire suite, however this is a digital photography website, so save in tiff.

0 upvotes
newe
By newe (11 months ago)

Corel is a good option....but it is "cloud" as well. You will need to activate it once (you will need some form of connection)...and if Corel goes under or decides to change then you are out of luck for a move to a new machine.

What we need is a reasonably featured package that can do color management with just a serial number-based activation...no internet EVER needed. Not sure who makes that.

3 upvotes
Husaberg Grok
By Husaberg Grok (11 months ago)

It is hard to believe how many are content to require an internet connection to maintain functionality of a product!

1) All that screws up a PC comes from the World Wide Web.
2) As a tool, there shouldn't be a requirement to be connected.
3) I am forced to be connected (at my expense and inconvenience) once a month or once every 3 months.

My tools don't tell me what to do.If they try, I sell them, throw them away and I would never buy them.

3 upvotes
Per Inge Oestmoen
By Per Inge Oestmoen (11 months ago)

Spot on.

1 upvote
HywelHarris
By HywelHarris (11 months ago)

Wrong about Corel Graphics Suite. The box DVD is and will remain available. Premium (paid for) membership grants you access to new (Interim Releases) functionality as it becomes available (IR3 is available for X6 now). If you hold Premium membership when X7 is released you get it free.

If at any time you cancel you revert to the Perpetual Licence you owned previously. Not sure whether you get to option for a DVD for the Premium Membership Free X7, more likely you will get a download version, still a perpertual licence for X7 tho'.

If Adobe had done this most of the arguments against would have been dismissed. Its the thought that if you don't pay you don't play (or earn in their case) and you are completely stuffed.

0 upvotes
57even
By 57even (11 months ago)

Another solution for Adobe.

As well as allowing more flexibility on the lease (including right to continued use without upgrade after a certain amount is paid) Adobe have another option to boost growth.

Create a new company, and sell Google a 49% stake in return for a cross licensing, support and marketing agreement. Transfer LR and elements to the new co. and create an integrated offering that has two products, a Picasa based consumer tool with a better editor and RAW converter, and an LR based enthusiast/pro tool with a more complete, 16 bit editor with colour management (hybrid of Elements and essential goodies from PS).

Drop Elements altogether.

Google could develop the consumer product and take over marketing, distribution and support for both.

49% would be a huge investment kick, and would enable them to develop a world beating photographer oriented solution. They would still benefit from an increased revenue stream, despite only owning 51%.

0 upvotes
Mike_PEAT
By Mike_PEAT (11 months ago)

I HATE when you have to pay for something in installments. I want to pay for something and have a clean bill, not continually pay for something. It's the reason why I don't have a credit card!

And what about those who don't have a credit card? How will they pay for this?

It's just plain stupid!

Why not keep the store purchasable product, but just add the cloud features to it? It shouldn't matter to the software if it's a store purchasable licensed product that comes on a disc that say expires in 5 years, or one that is paid for monthly that you have to download.

4 upvotes
welsh dragon
By welsh dragon (11 months ago)

I've never had a credit card, either - never wanted one - never likely to - and for exactly the same reason.

I'm also not prepared to pay for something - again and again - and still be expected to hand it back, the moment I decide I've had enough of being jerked about.

No rental for me - and no virtual software.

I'll buy my copy outright - on a real disk - in a real shop - and with real banknotes - if and when I choose to - and use it for as long as I choose to.

If any company's CEO refuses to listen to his customers - and insists on living in the cloud - they can expect no future custom from me.

I don't think I'm alone.

6 upvotes
kymarto
By kymarto (11 months ago)

For that matter, keep the box in the stores, and allow paid upgrades from the cloud. Service Packs, hello? Is that so difficult?

1 upvote
Roger Costa
By Roger Costa (11 months ago)

As a photography hobbyist, I could choose to live without photoshop if I thought the price was too high. If I made my living as a photographer, then I suppose Adobe would have me by the base of my snardleys (as does Verizon, Chevron, PG&E, Johnson & Johnson, Monsanto, grocery stores, and stores where I have bought clothes that were manufactured in Bangladesh, to name a few).

1 upvote
rrr_hhh
By rrr_hhh (11 months ago)

I think it is worth repeating it : If you ressent the new subscription policy introduced by Adobe for working with most of their main softwares, go to change.org and sign the petition :

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

4 upvotes
morepix
By morepix (11 months ago)

I almost signed up. But upon a little reflection, I couldn't decide which is worse: a software subscription model or participation in online social agitation. And anyway, adding my name to an online petition will simply buy me both these evils. So I pass.

2 upvotes
tdptdp
By tdptdp (11 months ago)

5,300 signatures? Adobe has 12.8 million CS suite and CS point product users.

I'm beginning to think the analysts are right - Adobe is abandoning a tiny, very vocal subset of their customers who never give them any money.

1 upvote
AshMills
By AshMills (11 months ago)

Yes but how many of those 12.8 million users:

Have a fairly recent version.
Paid for it.
Read this forum.
etc?

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

No doubt Adobe has tallied their surveys and are confidently waiting for this to blow over. But the wild card is that the folks who aren't happy are a vocal bunch. Petitions won't change anything but at least Adobe will know. As my late father would say when I was bad "You're only fooling yourself."

1 upvote
Tee1up
By Tee1up (11 months ago)

Any time you try and hand-cuff users like this, you create a fertile garden for our hacker brethren. My guess is you will also see more users thinking 'hey, that Aperture program really gets most of what I need done'.

Bad move Adobe.

3 upvotes
Ross Millard
By Ross Millard (11 months ago)

Biggest concern ... Access to cloud based software when editing images out in the boonies where there's NO wifi ... internet access!!!

Adobe should announce this with a statement that calms all concerns!

0 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (11 months ago)

no.. you should inform yourself before writing.

every noob from here to timbuktu knows already that you don´t need a constant connection.. THAT is not the problem....

i mean honest.... have you read anything then the headlines before writing? i guess not.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
6 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (11 months ago)

In addition to doing something people really do not like, Adobe has also explained it badly. Bravo!

2 upvotes
rdc13
By rdc13 (11 months ago)

I want a PRODUCT, not a SERVICE.

I'll be shopping around.

18 upvotes
Charles Coleman
By Charles Coleman (11 months ago)

I'm still in shock.

4 upvotes
CoDiEye
By CoDiEye (11 months ago)

Too pay repeatedly I really don't like.

But the real issure for me is trust. What might be the next idea as they know I invested a lot of my time in results which I only can use if I pay. That is one of the worse dependencies you can have. Ok, there are worse ones, but here I can decide. And that's what I do: I don't trust Adobe anymore.

Consequence: I look for other solutions and won't invest in their products, trainings, books, magazines etc.

To you all the best

Steffen

9 upvotes
40daystogo
By 40daystogo (11 months ago)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57583817-92/adobe-mulls-creative-cloud-tweaks-for-long-term-file-access/

Adobe is thinking of re-canting, partly -- but don't get fooled. Adobe might recant in 2013, but 5-8 years later when everyone followed the Pied Piper into the cloud - once they've got you in their stockade -- then, bang, the gates slam shut and there's nothing you can do about it. Right now, you can threaten Adobe by staying on your existing CS, but if you get lured by Adobe recanting, I can only say I told you so when they show, in a few years time, that it was only a ruse to suck you into their plan.

Here's the test: If Adobe do recant by allowing you to open files, would you trust Adobe for the long haul for a few decades, i.e. opening your files even in your retirement? To those who would trust Adobe, you need to study this video: http://youtu.be/juM46ny1WhM

Most people don't care about calamity that might come in the future. All they care about is convenience today.

9 upvotes
kymarto
By kymarto (11 months ago)

I've read Adobe's arguments for the cloud move, and they do not wash. I do understand the advantages, for instance, of continuous incremental upgrades, but the argument about the difficulty of maintaining two separate versions (CC and CS) is hogwash. There is an easily implemented model that could work to everyone's advantage: "rent to own" instead of straight rental.

Let's say that someone subscribes for three years at a cost of $20 a month. They have invested $720. Now assume, for the sake of argument, that Adobe valuates the core app at $800, and the upgrades delivered to that subscriber for those three years at $200. The software that that user has on their computer is worth $1000. What is the big problem to give that user the option of paying the balance ($280) and granting them a perpetual license for what they have? And if they choose not to do so, then they lose access.

Clearly Adobe wants to keep people on the hook and then give them nothing for their money. Shame on them.

10 upvotes
kymarto
By kymarto (11 months ago)

Further, if one wanted to resubscribe, the status of the licensed software could be evaluated, and at least some credit given for what was already paid for. This would be somewhat analogous to the present (former) upgrade model. Am I missing something here? Why would this not work? In one large sense it is to Adobe's advantage, because it would get folks who cannot lay out a big lump sum using the software, and give them a big incentive to buy at the end. It gives big users the same advantages as the present subscription model--the ability to change the number of seats easily.

OK Adobe--explain to me why this was not considered...or if it was why it was rejected....I think it must have to do with not enough control of the consumer. As it stands, Adobe has all the advantages: no more worries about people not upgrading because they do not need or want minor new features. They will have everyone by the short hairs--at least those silly enough to fall for it.

2 upvotes
Gregm61
By Gregm61 (11 months ago)

Paying on a monthly basis, I'd be sending them nasty emails if it took them longer than two weeks to give access to processing of new camera raw files. They damn well better deliver on the promise of faster upgrades. If ownership rights are gone, so is giving them any leeway on delivering of services.

2 upvotes
57even
By 57even (11 months ago)

Yes, once you have paid over a certain amount (equiv to a license or upgrade fee) you should be entitled to continue to use the software without upgrades. Furthermore, if you wish to "rejoin" then you should be able to do so simply by resubscribing (though the clock will start again from the beginning).

This would cost no more to support than the rental model does now.

But the other issue is that there is NO NEED for Adobe to access your machine in the meantime. If you are paying by credit card, debit card or bank order, they can check you made your last payment. Why do they have to bother you? After all you can't download it onto another machine because you'd have to register.

You should only need to connect to get updates. That's it. They can check your status then.

3 upvotes
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