Just Posted: Ricoh GR preview: Digital Photography Review

The current foremost most Ricoh street photographer is --- Daibo Moriyama.

Google his name.

Many here will not care about his images.

But word-wide art critics acknowledge his genius of the streets images.

Most of his images where shot with the Ricoh film camera in B/W.

He is now in his 70's. And is still shooting streets, but this time with a Ricoh digital camera.

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Please somebody explain Snap Focus. Many folks here get excited about it, seems very cool but I can not find what it is. Even not in their press release. Thanks in advance!

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I think you enter manually a certain distance, let's say 10 meters for a street photography. Then, when you shoot some object let's say 5 meters away, the focus will be faster because it doesn't have to go all the way from previous focus settings. That's the way I understand it. And it works in automatic mode.

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It is a full-press snap function.
If you press the shutter button all the way down at once without half-pressing, then photo will be taken immediately in preset focus distance skipping autofocus.
And sure when you half press the shutter button, autofocus works as usual.
It means you don't lose chance waiting autofocus, especially in candid photography. (could be out of focus though.)
Preset distance could be selected from several options.
Same function already adopted in GRD and GXR.

3 upvotes

what is really missing is the articulated LCD.

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Question for the DP review team, how loud is the shutter? Say compared to the X100?

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If you turn all the camera's sound effects off, it's a quiet click. Not, perhaps, quite as quiet as the X100's 'snick' but not terribly different.

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Great, thank you.

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#5 is alive!

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DPR a question if you don't mind. The GRD4, I think unlike the GRD3 did not allow you to preview the 'effects' on the LCD before shooting, when shooting JPEG + RAW. If Jpeg, obviously the screen shows what you'll get. If RAW it doesn't, as expected.
If R + J it will show basic b/w but I think that's it.

Could you see please whether if, when shooting jpeg + raw, on all 'filters / effects' you are given a preview on screen?

It's not a huge deal but sometimes for high contrast b/w it's useful.

Thanks

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You can preview all Effects, regardless of file shooting mode. If you shoot an Effect in Raw mode, that becomes the default way of processing it if you re-process in camera.

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Not a Ricoh user though I like many images from Ricoh cameras I've seen in the past.I'm confused as to the name GR...When I look on Flickr for 'Ricoh GR' I see many photos but obviously not from this camera seeing the photos are a few years old.Do they have previous models named Ricoh GR as well? Kind of confusing for a non user.

Comment edited 53 seconds after posting

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Ricoh lineup:

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/lineup.html

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There are ricoh GR1, GR1s, GR1v. All film cameras, with the same lens spec. 28mm f2.8, but full frame, since it's film. It was introduced in 1996.

Then you have GR1D all the way to 4 and then this camera.

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Seriously, I just cannot get why it is so special , it seems to me is another boring 28mm fixed lens camera from last decade or even last century.

Nikon A was also very boring but this one seems even worse , it has no EVF , it has no 4k video or any serious video mode , and I think it does not even have any kind of IS/VR/VC,etc.
So why do so many people get excited about this GR thing?

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

1 upvote

It's basically a GRD with a larger sensor.

Which means that it's a very customizable camera with a great lens, and is a very appealing camera to those of us who like cameras that get out of the way when shooting, especially in the streets. I cannot emphasize this enough, because you don't see this just by glancing at some spec sheet.

Also, part of the appeal is that with the GW-3 adapter, it is also one of the most compact ways to get a 21mm EFOV f/2.8, at any sensor size. (As the GW-2 did with the GRD IV, at f/1.9)

To me, the lack of an EVF option is the biggest negative. But for me, isn't too much of a deal-breaker, considering the competition. With snap focus, I can get away with using an OVF most of the time. Not ideal, but compared to my experience with an XE1 - you get an EVF in a compact body and an on-screen distance/DOF scale, sure - but the focus-by-wire implementation was just dismal. I'd rather have Ricoh's snap focus.

3 upvotes

2 words - SNAP Focus :)

It's a dream camera for street photography.

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You never use wides on your DSLR or MILC?

Wides are the most interesting, and dynamic focal length great for landscapes, architecture, groups of people, environmental portraits, near/far compositions, close-ups, you name it.

If all that sounds boring to you then perhaps your imagination is the limiting factor, not the camera or wide angle lens.

4 upvotes

This is a photographer's camera, not a gadget-hound's camera.

As for the 28mm focal length, what you may not realize is that the 28mm effective focal length (or close to 28mm) is the most widely used (effective) focal length in the world today. Why? Because that's basically the effective focal length of practically every smart phone camera on the planet. It's a versatile, useful focal length, as proven by the millions of smart phone images being produced every day.

1 upvote

No Manual Exposure for Video? :( ...none for CoolPix A either??

If either of these had Manual Video control, I would easily sell my OMD Now and get one of these :)

Comment edited 29 seconds after posting

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I think Coolpix A has it. And you can have it then, for a few hundred$ more. But I wish I could imagine how a camera that has everything that comes to mind would look like, and how much would it co$t?

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Coolpix A video (and audio) looks most impressive but without VR you're going to have to rig it, or stabilize it (or stop drinking coffee).

Ricoh should hire Doug Menuez to shoot their GRD V samples.
I wonder how many A's he sold just based on his wonderful sample images.

Coolpix A short
https://vimeo.com/61378282

Or you could pick up a GH3, GH2 or RX100 for video?

1 upvote

in that case get the GH3 or even NEX6 , a much better camera for Video work.

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@ Zvonimir: Ahh, I see. I was confused because in the DPR comparison page of GR vs Coolpix A, it states " Exposure control in movies: None (GR) vs Exposure Comp (Coolpix A). They weren't really precise in what they meant though; I guess they meant WHILE it is recording, because I just read the Coolpix A video-exposure can definitely be set, but before hitting the Red button (which is totally good enough; as that's what I always do on my old 5DII, 60D and OMD anyways (I never change exposure While recording)).

So, is there a chance that the GR's video-exposure can be manually set and locked-on before hitting the video Rec button??? (instead of possibly its' ap/ss/iso jumping all over the place while recording - that would be very annoying/unusable)....I think so, ya? It's just common sense to have it this way. That's all one really needs anyways- lock exposure before hitting video Rec ;)

I definitely want the GR over the Nikon - slimmer, lighter, sleeker, blacker and sharper lens.

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.....also, can you Lock the focus point before hitting the video Rec button. Having the focus unexpectedly track/shift while recording would be very annoying/unusable as well...

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But as Marike said, how stabile is to shoot video on such a lightweight cam? Does it make sense to engage big time video work on it? Or, should you buy a slim, cute convertible car to carry around building construction material? Now when every DSLR has video recording option, and there are so many cameras with size of body and lenses more suited for it, we should question our predicament for adding stuff in certain cameras that really isn't necessary. I think it's basic common sense.

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I'll correct it first thing in the morning:

The Coolpix A, you can set exposure before you start recording movies, then adjust exposure comp while shooting (in S or A modes).

The Ricoh gives you no control at all - when you're in move mode no exposure controls work before or during shooting.

1 upvote

Not really a "big time" video work is expected from it..but it's such a standard/easy/normal feature nowadays on all cameras that shoot video nowadays - manual control. It's more common sense to implement it; especially on a prosumer/enthusiast camera such as this..in addition to having it's own Video Mode on the dial. It's kinda misleading - Video on Mode dial (which yells, "I'm a video camera too"), top of the line compact, large APSC sensor, more expensive than the ordinary p&s. VR/IBIS isn't the issue either..since the only camera that has a usable/good/decent IBIS for video is the OMD; and that hasn't stopped the other 98% of cameras out there having manual video exp, has it? Having manual control is just a good thing and should be standard if you want usable video..unless you like your videos to unexpectedly jump focus and exposure every second. They shouldn't even have bothered with Video on the mode dial, if it the video feature was going to be this lame.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting

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Hi

Has everyone forgotten about the Ricoh GXR with the 28mm equivalent f2.5 lens with a capable 12mp APS-C size sensor?

To me this module, which was released circa 2009/2010 was the quintessential small camera / big sensor with a 28mm lens - even smaller than the X100 which everyone loves to compare with (yes I have both!). The GXR remains a dream to use on the streets, even if it's not as pocketable as the GR / GRD

Snap focus makes this a dream street shooter, and yes the GXR got it right - you press and hold the macro button and turn the wheel to change snap focus distance on the fly. To boot, the GXR even has an EVF port.

Many articles on the GR i read did not explore snap focus or pay homage to the GXR and missed the essence of the camera....

2 upvotes

Great product. The new smallest APS-C camera.

Comment edited 50 seconds after posting

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I wonder what magic they used to pull this off?

Ricoh GRD-1,2,3 and 4 were all 1/1.8" sensors, and since the beginning people were asking, whining, pleading, hoping for a bigger sensor "since the film GR was 35mm ... "

Suddenly, Ricoh goes "oh, wait, actually we _can_ fit an APS-C sensor in there after all." Not 1", not even 4/3", just "poof" all the way up to APS-C like it was meant to be that way all along.

I'd love to know what made that possible in 2013 when it was not possible in 2008 or even 2010.

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Marketing brands, and continues to feed the flock as long as sheep. Then they are forced to change tactics when the market begins to demand more and not satisfied with what he has been fed. (small sensors). Basically, an informed consumer will not want to less than 1. Even the cheaper equipment and simple. Is this a trend I suppose. Time will tell.

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Maybe they bought Pentax for a reason.

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Technology advancement I suppose.

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The GXR with 28mm module was already smaller than the X100 and jacket pocketable, and it was released in 2009 / 2010.

Think of that as the precursor :)

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to add on to my post, the 28mm module was APS-C, 12 megapixels, and it had a slightly faster lens, a f2.5 lens, and it has an EVF port to mount an external EVF.

All in a body size smaller than a X100 :)

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not possible in 2008? there was.....
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmadp1

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The REAL GR had a viewfinder.

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And pinhole camera obscura didn't have anything.

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The "REAL GR" didn't have a 3" LCD. Besides, the film GR1's viewfinder was not through-the-lens. And of course, you can get an add-on viewfinder for this digital GR.

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Absolutely SPECTACULAR new studio test scene DPR...WELL DONE...BRAVO!!

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I'd have to factor in a viewfinder of some sort for this, just out of personal choice, but it is a cool little camera that's for sure.

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Ricoh GV-1, attaches to the hot shoe, 28 and 21 mm brightlines...

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Nikon has a big problem, Ricoh on the other hand...anyway I will be getting one no matter what. I planed on buying Nikon A at X mas time when the price gets somewhat sane and now I can shoot all the summer long!!! Great job Ricoh!

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting

5 upvotes

In the USA, I'm sure that Nikon is terrified of "Richwho?" :-)

1 upvote

Nikon probably should not be excessively terrified of Ricoh alone. But I think when you add up Ricoh, Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Panasonic, both Nikon and Canon should be (and probably are) p**ping their pants, for a while now. They both release some mirrorless models in desperation mode, trying to stop the bleeding, without cannibalizing their own lineup and failed.

All I know is that trend is towards smaller cameras and Nikon has very poor presence there. Its APS-C sensor in compact body now, it won't be long before FF mirrorless bodies start to come out. Remember how Polaroid and Kodak was also not scarred of Digital?

2 upvotes

Nikon got served.

15 upvotes

Not just Nikon. I'd say everyone got served, including Fuji and others who did not even enter this segment as of yet. I've had a privileged to use GR1, GRD, GRD2 and GRD3 and loved them all. (maybe GRD2 wasn't all that special) GRD got me back into photography after some years of being disinterested, excellent camera. Glad to see that GRD5 kept most of the lines preserved.

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Yes, except for the pesky little fact that Nikon likely sells more cameras in one day than Ricoh does in a month or more. And then their the whole class leading thing. Yes, I'm sure Nikon engineers are bowing their heads in shame.

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DPR - onerous question about Snap please. For Example - If I were to designate the Effects Button on the side for Snap distance or perhaps that WB button can be designated? Are you able to push and hold the effects button scroll your front wheel - see your distances on the upper right top of the screen change - release the effects button and be done. Or would you press effects button then see a distracting menu box pop up on the left side scroll to distance you want AND THEN have to press menu/ok in the center and be done? I hope it's the first scenario as it was with the GRD3 and GXR. That extra second of menu/ok confirmation and the choice box lingering on the screen will make for missed shots while taking your eye away from the street. I personally scroll through my distances and move my feet on the street based on how close I'm going to get to my subject. I hope they went back to the old way.

I'm surprised there are not more Street Ricoh shooters concerned with the Snap function?

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So, in answer to your questions:

If you set the Effect button to be SnapFocusDist. then you press, release (while a menu appears), then can use the front dial. You then need to press Effect again or OK to confirm. (Holding Effect gives depth-of-field preview)

If you use either Fn1 or Fn1, you could hold the button, but it does you no good - you still have to press again or press OK to confirm.

The WB button cannot be re-programmed (I'd have mentioned it in the preview).

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Thanks for the reply, I cannot figure why they changed that. What purpose does it serve to confirm but to miss that shot. That's my only complaint as well as my favorite setting. Anyone else agree with me? Perhaps with enough feedback they could tweak that in a firmware.

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1) Ricoh is 12 bit RAW whereas Nikon is 14 bit.
Is this important?

2) The flash on the Ricoh seems to be much weaker than the Nikon.

3) Do we know the price for the optional optical viewfinder for the Ricoh?

4) I notice that the Nikon doesn't have an ND filter. (Just checked Nikon website)

5) The timelapse recording and eye-fi connectivity look useful.

6) Rumours suggested the camera would be able to take 'multiple exposures' which I took to mean (1) take picture of church, (2) take picture of cat (3) show friends amusing picture of cat in church.
Does either camera allow this?

7) Do we know if this is the same sensor as used in the K5 II as rumoured? If so that sensor got a great score on DXOMark.

(Other wins for Ricoh Max shutter 4000 vs 2000, Min shutter 300 secs vs 30, RAW+JPEG mode, 1:1 3:2 4:3 modes, higher res scree, price, bulb mode, 290 vs 240 shots )

Thanks

2 upvotes

1) The difference in 12 bit and 14 bit is 4.096 grades per color vs 16.384 per color, so yes I would say this is important. Although u might not notice any difference, if you do critical post production with e.g. skin tones, it matters.

7) The K5 II sensor has 14 bit, so it is not the same sensor.

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Thanks for 2 good answers.

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I see elsewhere that the Nikon does have a bulb mode.

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The K-30 and K-01 have 12-bit RAW (DNG) only and the K-5, like the D7000 and Coolpix A, have 14-bit RAW (NEF).

All three of the 14-bit RAW cameras get around 14 EV Dynamic Range on DxOMark, while the K-30, K-01 scored about 1 EV lower than the K-5, Coolpix A, D7000.
All five of these cameras use the excellent Sony 16 mb Exmor sensor, which has been kind of benchmark since it's release, but for whatever reason Pentax limited the RAW files to 12-bits.

1 upvote

3) GV-1 is 16,180 yen at amazon.co.jp as of today.

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to marike6:
you don't need 14bit raw to achieve 14EV stop

by definition one EV step difference is 2x latitude difference
BUT, we don't need to record 14EV with 14bit
why? because we can handle one extra EV without adding another bit in raw format,just flatten or apply tone curve or some fancy ADC converter, the only drawback though is gradation won't be as smooth as 14bit format, but when it comes to DR performance, sensor technology and ADC are more importance than raw format .

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting

1 upvote

DPR: You really need to get some hand models if you're going to continue to do live modeling with these beautiful pieces of camera tech. Try some of the office gals...anything but Barnaby's hairy meat knuckles!

2 upvotes

They need a George Costanza. :-)

8 upvotes

Very interesting this Ricoh, 9 blades, DNG raw process, and so on... eyes on this!
Nikon will start dancing Harlem Shake...

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

Sample images have a "natural" look about them. Not as sharp looking as the Coolpix A samples but, no doubt this can be adjusted camera settings.

2 upvotes

12 bit only :(

3 upvotes

see http://www.grblog.jp/

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Finally, a tiny, lightweight, high quality wide angle camera for us weight weenies and street shooters. Add the GW-3 wide angle conversion and be done with it. I am getting one.

7 upvotes

Me too. Ricoh, I like Steve Jobs --- think different.

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Can it be carried in jeans pocket?
That is crucial to my usage.

1 upvote

baggy jeans, cargo pockets

2 upvotes

I today walked into the shop and tried a GRD IV.
It slipped easily in my Jeans Pocket.
My next camera will be Ricoh GR.

1 upvote

External flashes can be used at a sync speed of up to 1/2000th of a second.

That's cool.

3 upvotes

Looks good, impressive lens, but where are the DoF trolls?

1 upvote

Attacking the Nikon Coolpix A for similar reasons, while forgetting the weight and expense an F2.0 lens would add.

Comment edited 59 seconds after posting

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Good point Don. When the Coolpix A was announced, every other comment as about "slow f2.8 lens". Strangely (or selectively) quiet about the max aperture. Hmm...

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Conclusion: dpreview trolls do not read non-Nikon posts...

1 upvote

I agree with Richard Murdey's conclusion. But maybe you can generalize that to become : dpreview trolls only read big-name-brand news.

Btw, the DoF trolls are back. They are at the Sigma 18-35 f1.8 lens announcement comments ... Dang, it's hella crowded there :-)

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

Don't know if it's been mentioned before or not - I haven't seen it in the comments yet:

FYI - if you want a charger (external) it's going to cost you an extra $48 (plus any applicable taxes/shipping) since the GR, unfortunately, doesn't come with one :(

Dave

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So, how does one charge it?
Via a USB port?
If so, I already have a usb-to-ac adapter (actually, it's a charger in its own right).
Interested in charging times, though.

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It wasn't mentioned because it's not true. From the review:

"The camera is charged via the USB socket, though it comes with a fast-charging 1A adapter."

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/ricoh-gr/3

3 upvotes

Sorry, I meant 1A USB charger - I'll clarify that.

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So, it can be recharged on the fly using the same kind of external batteries (up to 8Ah available) one would using for e.g. a smartphone?
Nice.

0 upvotes

Based on what I've seen via B&H the camera does not come with an external charger - unless there's an error on B&H's site. Based on "What's In The Box" - the camera is charged via USB - therefore you have to have the battery in the camera and the camera plugged into the USB adapter to charge the battery. There is/are external chargers available (both Ricoh and third party) but they will add cost to the camera. Just an FYI - not dissing the camera.

Cheers,
Dave

1 upvote

The preview states a charger is provided but the camera charges via USB as well, if I am not mistaking.

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Again, please check the B&H site under "Whats In The Box" - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/965424-REG/ricoh_175743_gr_digital_camera.html

Compare that to the GRD IV "Whats In The Box" - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/822129-REG/Ricoh_175723_GR_DIGITAL_IV_Digital.html

An external charger is not included with the new GR.

Cheers,
Dave

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Does it still say charger anywhere in the preview? I thought I'd changed the only instance to 'USB adapter' to avoid confusion.

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Mr Butler (thank you BTW for your continued reviews and work on this site :) )

The preview states the following:
"The camera is charged via the USB socket, though it comes with a fast-charging 1A adapter."

That to me is "sort of clear" - as people may assume that "fast charging 1A adapter" = external charger

Cheers,
Dave

0 upvotes

There was sufficient body girth (looking at handgrip) to put F2.
Maybe even F1.8 with a litte extra portrusion that the phtographers this is aimed at would been fine with .. what a camera that woud have been.

1 upvote

It seems that the designers chose to prioritize some degree of continuity in the size, weight, and design of this camera compared to previous iterations of the GRD series. As the preview notes, the bigger sensor, despite a smaller aperture, gives improved depth of field and high-ISO quality over the old sensor.

And creating a wider aperture wide-angle lens may be more difficult than you realize. The Coolpix A is a taller and deeper camera, but it doesn't managed a wider aperture. The RX100 managed a wider aperture, but it's thicker and uses a much smaller sensor.

3 upvotes

F/2 is not important for me anymore for this type of camera.

Performance is clearly great wide open across the frame. Even my Fuji suffers a bit wide open. I look through my X100 images and it's very clear I'm getting my best images mostly in range from F/2.8 to F/6.7.

F/1.4 would bring something real and tangible, but F/2 vs F/2.8, where the's F/2 really need to be stopped down anyway, it's a 1 to 3% advantage at best.
The key figures here are:

◦ 16.2MP APS-C
◦ 28mm/2.8
◦ 245 g
◦ 117 x 61 x 35 mm

The smallest lightest fixed lens APS-C.

But not only the smallest and lightest, it's got the full Ricoh ergonomics and control interface for un-compromised shooting.

Add in the excellent Sony sensor, then a GR lens. Seriously sweet, serious compact.

Many people will take comfort in their F/2 camera, and I'm happy for them. But I almost lost my shorts on many occasions thanks to the X100 weight, risking serious indecent exposure!

245 g is a new league of serious compact.

5 upvotes

I don't think that f2 was necessary either, mainly because of the focal length. You can get away with 1/30s.

1 upvote

Totally agreed with f/2 case.
"it's got the full Ricoh ergonomics and control interface for un-compromised shooting" - last time I checked the "Ricoh ergonomics" was rather a disadvantage than anything else with confusing menus and semi-decent controls. This one probably is similar, but if they moved away from classical Ricoh GUI and made up something better it might be truly brilliant camera. Seeing two dial wheels already makes me reassured it's better than any mirrorless in similar size. If they won't screw it by something obvious - it might be a win-win camera.

0 upvotes

At 28mm equivalent, it's quite wide.
Hell, I'm ok with a 28mm (42mm equiv.) f3.5 on CCD (i.e. no more than ISO800), since you can always shoot slow (given the focal length) or jack up the iso: it's a CMOS after all.
So, yeah, f2.8 is fine to me.

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting

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Plastek the Ricoh UI is second to none!

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Totally disagree. I shot with previous Ricoh compacts, as well as GXR and the UI was below average. There are cameras with much worse UI, sure, but it's nowhere near top of the line.

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Sorry Plastek, gotta disagree with you. I had the GRD2 and the UI was the best of any compact camera I've ever used and beat some of the larger cameras too. I'm not sure about their compacts. It's definitely should be near the top and probably at the top for most people.

1 upvote

You mean a little protrusion like that of the Fuji X-100?

1 upvote

I wonder how many folks will just leave this in 35mm crop mode. :)

1 upvote

And why not? Cameras have had way more resolution than needed for most purposes for years now. I got good 8x10 prints out of a 2 megapixel Kodak.

7 upvotes

Just when I think that I do not need any new cameras :) ... This one is in my price range to boot, best handling in a small package with the right sensor. Can't wait.

2 upvotes

Looks like a winner. Hopefully we'll get a proper review this time.

I wonder what's next in the Ricoh pipeline. An updated GXR body would be great.

0 upvotes

Yes! With new M-mount!

1 upvote

Actually I think the GXR body is fine. They just need a new M Module

0 upvotes

Well, I see that Ricoh got a lens that is sharp in the corners wide open, whereas Nikon failed.

Somebody was arguing with me forever on the Nikon A thread, trying to convince me that the corners of the Nikon A were sharp. And he had the cajones to do it even with the Nikon A sample images available and the flaws in the corners pointed out to him!

This camera interests me. I never got the Ricoh GR thing in the past, and I'm a cult camera kind of guy. But this thing looks way cool.

1 upvote

The Coolpix A seems to have slightly more field curvature which may account for the softer extreme corners, but boy oh boy, is the Nikon image sharp (sharper than the Ricoh) in the center.

Have been a GRD user and fan since version III, but I don't think Coolpix A fans have anything at all to worry about resolution, sharpness, or overall IQ, as the DPR Coolpix A samples look a significantly better than the GRD V samples in this Preview. That said, on price and ergonomics alone, the GRD V is a pretty safe bet.

1 upvote

The Nikon A images don't look better to me.

It's annoying to use a wide angle lens specifically because you want to capture something at the edge of the frame, and have it turn out mush. That has happened to me dozens of times.

The Ricoh images are sharp into the corners. Some of the images were captured specifically so that could be examined. Take a look.

4 upvotes

If it doesn't deviate from the smaller-sensor GR-Ds (which it doesn't seem to), then it's poised be one of the best (if not the best) "photographer's P&S" in the market for a long time.

this will eat a good portion the target market that Fuji X100s and Sony RX-1 currently has.

2 upvotes

@bobbarber

Even great lenses can have softer corners at max aperture. This is common, especially for wides. Ricoh seems to have done a good job with flatness of field and even at max aperture the corners are crisp. By f4-5.6 any differences in the corners should be slight.

But in fairness, the above comparison the Nikon A image is sharper in center (See the Jack of Hearts or the Lorenz Frølich drawing) with far less moire .

I looked at the GRD V samples. They are not nearly as nice as the gallery Richard made with the Coolpix A. Sharpness, color and contrast seem better with the Nikon.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/nikon-coolpix-a-preview-samples#page=1

I'll be buying the GRD V as it's cheaper with great ergonomics, but it's not a given at all that it will have better IQ than the Nikon.

0 upvotes

Marike6

I don't believe that you are being "fair" by saying that the Nikon images are sharper in the center. If they are, the difference is minimal. I don't need to look at your cherry-picked examples. I looked at both images full-size, in separate tabs.

My impression was the Ricoh in fact was sharper in many places, the Nikon in others, although I thought the Nikon tones were smoother and the Ricoh had a little bit of an oversharpened look. This may be due to the default sharpening.

However, the preview specifically points out that the Ricoh jpeg engine isn't getting as much out of the sensor as the Nikon--did you read the preview? This seems to suggest that Ricoh raw images are better than the jpegs.

Where is your usual harping on "only raw images count" and so on in this case? You posted something along those lines many, many times, yesterday alone.

P.S. The Ricoh sample images were sharp in the corners. The Nikon images had no details in the composition in the corners.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

9 upvotes

@Marike6
From what I have seen, the Ricoh is just as sharp in the center and definitely sharper at edges. IQ wise: the Nikon should have some advantage in DR, because it is generally shares internals with D7000 while the Ricoh with Pentax K-30. But Ricoh definitely has better lens. And you sound like a typical Nikon zealot, sorry.
Controls are much better with Ricoh too: two wheels and the whole interface of GR/GXR series is superior over the Nikon P&S.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Bobbarber, I was one of the folks arguing with you...

The Ricoh was not in the mix when we were comparing cameras at the corners...The cameras compared were the Sony RX1, RX100, FujiX100s, and in all these cases the Nikon A seemed to be outperforming these.

I have looked back and forth at these images, the Ricoh is doing an excellent job in the far corners, and is outperforming the Nikon A at the extreme edges.

The Nikon is sharper in the center, as Mareki6 pointed out in his post.
In fact if you take a look at the top right corner with the plant you can easily see that the Nikon is already pulling ahead.

Both seem to excellent cameras and you will be hard pressed to take a bad picture with any of the mentioned cameras.
I looked at your posting history and it seems that you have become very vocal since the Nikon A came out, are you a Ricoh shill?

As far as Jpeg engine out of the Ricoh; DPReview said that the samples against the Nikon A were shot in Raw and then saved as Jpegs.

1 upvote

@Emacs23 I don't sound like a typical anything, just calling it the way I see it. I'm a Ricoh GRD user since version three and will be buying this GRD V. But claiming that the Ricoh "is definitely a better lens" when you haven't used either camera or seen any side-by-side RAWs but f2.8 is absurd. Certainly you didn't decide the Ricoh was a better lens by the above GRD V sample gallery, as it is far from impressive in the way the Nikon images are.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

1 upvote

Bamboojled

Both of these cameras will take very nice images, obviously. It looks to me like the Ricoh is at least the equal of the Nikon in the center of the frame. The Nikon appears to have smoother tones, and the Ricoh looks a little oversharpened. Detail is roughly equal, depending on where you look in the frame.

The bottom line is, it's hard to justify paying $300 more for the Nikon. If you look at the comparitive specs, the Ricoh wins almost everywhere.

I'm not a Ricoh shill. My favorite brands are Panasonic and Olympus. I also have some old Nikon lenses, and I've been toying with the idea of a Nikon DSLR for a while, but haven't pulled the trigger. This camera interests me because I've admired the Ricoh GRD series for a while, without buying one. this camera has a larger sensor than the GRDs, and a more reasonable price (for what you get). The lens looks fantastic too.

0 upvotes

Brilliant camera. Puts the point of mirrorless existence in doubt now. Especially when it comes out that APS-C compact with excellent lens is smaller than m4/3 or 1" mirrorless with a lens.

4 upvotes

This is a mirrorless camera.

4 upvotes

Try to engage brain first in future!

1 upvote

As they mentioned, this is mirrorless... that aside, this is a fixed lens mirrorless, while the other two you mentioned are exchangeable lens mirorless. They are not competing, unless someone considered one of those bodies as a secondary camera for 1-2 focal lengths only.

Even mirrorless users are interested in cameras like these: For a certain focal length, is getting a lens better, or one of these fixed fl cameras? A dedicated camera for classic lengths like 28 and especially 35 make for smaller and easier walk around cameras, and you can still use your system camera for your more demanding needs. This is a compliment, not competition.

1 upvote

Not sure if you're speaking to me Olypan, but this most definitely is a mirrorless camera, as in "It does not have a mirror", regardless of the meaning of mirrorless in normal camera industry jargon.

All compacts are mirrorless cameras, a fact that is curiously lost on the cognescenti.

0 upvotes

APS-C is only for DSLR! everything else is a lie! all mirorless abominations must perish, with their compact size and ability to clearly display things that are not EXACTLY in focus.

0 upvotes

bobbarber - it's compact.
Not every camera without mirror is mirrorless. Unless you really want me to use full expression each time. So here you go, especially for you: Mirrorless INTERCHANGEABLE LENS camera

INTERCHANGEABLE
INTERCHANGEABLE
INTERCHANGEABLE

There's no such thing as mirrorless with fixed lens. Mirrorless isn't an expression for every camera without a mirror that was created through the history of universe. It's a name for one specific types of cameras like these in m4/3 or NEX system.

agentul - uh? o_O what kind of garbage is that?

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

9 upvotes

Plastek

Could you please give me an example of a compact camera with a mirror in it? I'm willing to admit I'm wrong.

Otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that all compact cameras are mirrorless, since every compact I've ever seen, handled, looked at, or read about has been mirrorless.

The vast, vast majority of digital cameras, including MILC system cameras, compacts, phone cameras, etc. are mirrorless, and have been for some time. Putting a lens mount on a camera so that lenses can be changed does not change the fundamental design of a camera. Neither does adding an EVF, which some compact cameras, like Fuji, had before MILCs came along. A mirrorless camera, that gives an image preview from the sensor and uses CD autofocus, is a mirrorless camera, whether you call it Nex or Ricoh GR or Olympus stylus, or whatever.

I hope this helps.

P.S. And of course, an excellent camera like this adds to the STRENGTH of the mirrorless sector. It does not debilitate it.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

It's not a mirrorless camera, It's a large sensor compact.

6 upvotes

bobbarber - you missed last 4 years? We use "mirrorless" only for cameras with interchangable lenses. NOT compacts.

Obvious thing is obvious. No matter how ridiculously silly you try to be about semantics.

Moreover - I'd even argue that rangefinders are not MILCs as MILCs got quite a few distinct characteristic that distinguish them from rangefinders - notably AF with live view or/and EVF. But that's a topic for different discussion and the border between these might be little blurred. Still though certainly it's nothing alike large sensor compact vs mirrorless. Difference between these is very clear. It's only your problem that you don't see it, but please, don't force your extreme point of view on others.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

8 upvotes

Plastek

No, YOU are using semantics. You are trying to finesse the definition of mirrorless, so that it doesn't include cameras that are obviously mirrorless, i.e., they don't have a mirror!

No matter how much you want to wave your arms in the air about what mirrorless means on these forums or whatever, the Ricoh GR is a mirrorless camera. It does not contain a mirror. It gets it's image preview from the sensor.

That's the fundamental difference in cameras these days, whether you get a preview from a mirror, or whether the mirror is absent and you get a preview from the sensor. If you get a preview from the sensor, and there is no mirror in the camera, it's a mirrorless camera.

That's why terms like MILC, EVIL, etc. exist, to distinguish mirrorless cameras with interchangeable lenses from other mirrorless cameras. But that doesn't make the GR NOT a mirrorless camera, no matter how studiously people avoid the term. It obviously IS a mirrorless camera. There's nothing to debate.

2 upvotes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrorless_interchangeable-lens_camera

The Mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera (MILC) is a popular class of digital system cameras. Unlike a compact digital camera, a MILC is equipped with an interchangeable lens mount and unlike a digital single-lens reflex camera, a MILC does not have a mirror-based optical viewfinder.

6 upvotes

plastek: "Not every camera without mirror is mirrorless."

some have mirrors sold separately, so that you can do this: http://www.phoblography.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Failblog.jpg

just like that wireless computer network that requires cables to connect to. similar scenario.

0 upvotes

Very good, RXVGS.

Point = ?

Let me help you:

"Unlike a compact digital camera, a MILC is equipped with an interchangeable lens mount"

Exactly what I said. A MILC is identical to a compact, except for the lens mount. They are both mirrorless cameras. The "ILC" part is what the quote is explaining. The "M" part is common to both classes of cameras.

"and unlike a digital single-lens reflex camera, a MILC does not have a mirror-based optical viewfinder."

Correct, and neither do compact cameras, which the first part of your quote points out are distinguished from MILC cameras only by the presence of a lens mount.

I hope this helps.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

We know all compacts don't have a mirror, why should they? But we don't call them mirrorless. The term mirrorless came when the G1 came out with interchangable lenses without a prism or mirror box so we called them mirrorless to distinguish them from DSLR 's. This camera is designed as a compact.

6 upvotes

Jacob,

That's a sensible answer. But even though we don't usually call a camera like this mirrorless, it IS.

I mean, if how a camera works to you is important, then you should be clean with your terminology.

When MILCs came into vogue, many DSLR users were like, "What's mirrorless?", without realizing that they had been shooting with mirrorless cameras for years--their compacts. MILCs and compacts have the same method of preview (sensor-based, viewed on a screen or through an EVF), the same method of autofocus, the same strengths and foibles, such as manual focus and screen lag. They act the same because they ARE the same.

I'm not a "DSLRs, please disappear" guy--I always want the option to buy a camera with a mirror. But not to realize that most cameras already are mirrorless--and work in the same way--would be unfortunate.

The "mirrorless = system camera only" terminology is from the industry anyway, not real life. It is meant to categorize things on shelves, that's all.

1 upvote

We all understand you. We just don't agree.

4 upvotes

@ bobbarber do you go around calling P&S cameras mirrorless too?.....

4 upvotes

Actually, I don't CALL point and shoots mirrorless, usually, except in a discussion like this, but I THINK of them that way. They ARE mirrorless. The point is inarguable.

I understand your guys' point too. You're comfy with language that makes out MILC system cameras as the only mirrorless cameras around. However, the language is deceptive by omission. Your argument is essentially, "The language may be wrong, maybe compacts are technically mirrorless too, but that isn't the standard way to say it."

Well, you're welcome to express yourself any way you want. I applaud you for it.

However, I will continue thinking of compact cameras as mirrorless, because they are. It will be difficult for anyone to shake me from this position, because I am correct. Your appeal is for me to go along with the herd. Well, good luck stating your case. You might persuade me! Stranger things have happened. Normally, though, I'm guided by facts.

2 upvotes

are you kidding? i would take a panny GX1 + 20 1.7, get faster aperture, more lens options, and save $100 to boot!

0 upvotes

Any chance to see it side-by-side with the Ricoh GRDIV ?

2 upvotes

I've been a Nikon user for a long time but a consumer for longer, it's great to see products like the Ricoh bring a dose of reality to the Nikon Accounting Execs who over the past 6 years have been overpricing their products relative to similar products in the market, sorry Nikon I'm not paying a 40% mark up for brand name.

18 upvotes

Amen to that.

Another poster here told me I should "reward" Nikon for having designed the A series by purchasing the camera.

4 upvotes

I do not think it is "for a brand name". It could be for a variety of good reasons:
1) Manual focus on lens ring: preferable for many to lever or dial on the back;
2) 14-bit colour depth. That will bring a real IQ advantage in real life (skin tones, landscapes, etc);
3) Compatibility with existing Nikon accessories (flash system, GPS, wi-fi, etc) for people who already own Nikon DSLR;
4) Nikon after sales and repairs all over the world (they might suck, but they exist);
5) Integration in NEF workflows for Nikon users (NX2 fans in particular);
6) Made in Japan (a democratic country).

Finally, not quite sure the real life "mark-up" is 40% now (I bought mine 100 EUR under street price just after release), and prices will come down further, a usual with Nikon (special rebates, bundles with hood or OVF, etc).

2 upvotes

You had me at hello.

This is everything I've been waiting for. Chapeau, Ricoh! You've definitely got one sale here.

12 upvotes

I have to say I'm delighted with how this has turned out.

I heard the rumours of the APS-C sensor and feared it would pass over an imaginary 'compactness/performance' threshold that lives in my head and manifests itself in my subconscious decisions not to take a camera out with me.

But looking at the size, weight, features and performance, it looks like they may have just bang-on nailed it.

Really looking forward to your updates in the coming weeks.

2 upvotes

Re: WB not available on the ADJ button.

This would be good feedback to give directly to Ricoh if you get the chance. They have a history of listening to user feedback and releasing feature enhancing firmware to implement the more practical suggestions.

0 upvotes

Well this is me sorted then, what a camera this looks. The images so far seem to retain the Ricoh 'look' too, a quality of film about them. UK price of £599 is very reasonable I think.

X100s is £899 now in the UK, I don't see the Ricoh dropping like that, not that it matters.

0 upvotes

I'm confused if I shoot at 3:2 ratio am I getting all 16 megapixels or I'm only going to get 10? With the GXR 3:2 ratio maximizes all 12 pixels. Also how is Snap accessed? Is it as easy as the GRD 3 and GXR? Thanks

0 upvotes

The sensor is 3:2, so you get all 16MP.

You get 10MP if you crop down to a 35mm equivalent field-of-view.

Snap is available from AF/MF on the ADJ Menu or AF/Snap can be assigned to one of the buttons (Page 4 of the preview).

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Thanks

0 upvotes

I wonder if this wouldn't have been better as a GXR module. The body is nearly the same.

0 upvotes

The GXR body was getting a too old : the processor would not be able to handle the fast focus, fast card writes etc. we all expect.
Also in order to really keep the size and weight down they did the right thing - the GXR is a little to large and heavy for comfort in my jacket pocket - but the GRD IV is perfect.

1 upvote

They could release a new body for the GXR if it is too dated. And with this being a folding lens, the size might not be bad.

I think it is a nice design, it just seems like they abandoned the GXR without it really ever taking off.

0 upvotes

Its actually a lot smaller than the GXR-28.

1 upvote

Minimum shutter speed: 300 seconds. TAKE NOTE, Canon, Nikon.

17 upvotes

Exactly! Why do Canon and Nikon still have 30 seconds minimum shutter speeds before having to go into bulb mode? Olympus have 60 second minimum shutter speeds before bulb mode.

3 upvotes

The funny part is that there's no reason for such restriction. Somehow camera doesn't have any issue with running even several 30 seconds exposures in a row, and suddenly we can't run a single 60 sec exposure, not to mention 300 sec. Silly.
Really hope someone finally does something with that.

0 upvotes

5 minutes minimum shutter speed. wow

0 upvotes

somebody at nikon also works at Ricoh/pentax

1 upvote

Maybe somebody a Ricoh also works at Nikon?

Both manufacturers have a history with fixed lens 28/2.8 cameras. Nikon with the 28ti and Ricoh with the GR1 (and all their GR series film cameras)

2 upvotes

The timing and similarity of the K-5/D7000 and Coolpix A/GR raise eyebrows. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there was some cross-pollination going on informally. It's their business to know, broadly, what the local competition is up to.

1 upvote

And to think people are constantly accusing DPReview of not working hard enough. Good effort with all these previews - especially for comparing it to the Coolpix A.

15 upvotes

I am quite certain that the GRD IV does nor allow the use of an EVF contrary to what you wrote in this preview
Harold

0 upvotes

I'm thinking of the GXRs, aren't I?

0 upvotes

yes I believe you are . The GXR has an optional external EVF

0 upvotes

That or the GX series. The GR Digital was always OVF only.

0 upvotes


Ricoh GR Preview extended with further details and more comparisons Apr 22, 2013	Pentax Ricoh releases Ricoh GR camera with APS-C CMOS sensor Apr 17, 2013	Pentax Ricoh discontinues K-01 K-mount mirrorless camera Feb 25, 2013	Pentax Ricoh updates firmware for GR Digital IV Jan 22, 2013

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