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Leica announces 'M' 24MP live view full-frame CMOS rangefinder with movies

By dpreview staff on Sep 17, 2012 at 19:00 GMT
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Photokina 2012: Leica has announced its latest M series rangefinder - the 24MP CMOS Leica M. The company says all future M models will also simply be called the 'M'. The latest model (referred to as 'Typ 240') becomes the first of its rangefinders to feature live view, and offers a choice of magnified view or focus peaking for precise through-the-lens focusing, allowing Leica to promise compatibilty with R-mount lenses. It also becomes the first M capable of movie shooting - capturing 1080p footage at 25 or 24 frames per second. It includes a 920k dot LCD with smartphone-style Gorilla Glass cover, and accepts the same plug-in EVF as used by the X2. Availability is scheduled for early 2013 with a retail price of $6,950 in the US and £5100 in the UK.

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Press Release:

NEW: THE LEICA M

The perfection of digital rangefinder technology

Solms, Germany (September 17, 2012) - Leica Camera presents a groundbreaking milestone in the nearly 60 year history of the Leica rangefinder system: The Leica M. Setting entirely new standards, the Leica M unites the ultimate in rangefinder precision with cutting edge digital technology. As the first camera to implement a newly designed CMOS image sensor and to feature additional focusing methods and functions such as Live View and Full HD video capability, it is the most versatile Leica rangefinder model ever. Remaining true to the legendary values of the M-System, the Leica M not only provides the advantages of rangefinder photography, but also for the first time, offers compatibility with Leica R legacy lenses. As with every innovation and development since the flagship line’s inception, the Leica M was created to capture fleeting moments of time and transform them into living history. 

The Leica M also marks the beginning of a new era in the Leica product naming policy. In future, Leica M and S model names will omit the number suffix to emphasize the enduring and long-term significance of the respective systems.

In every respect, the new Leica M is the most innovative and versatile model the modern M-System has ever created. Looking to the future, the Leica M is the first in a long line of Leica rangefinder cameras to feature a completely new development in sensor technology; the Leica Max CMOS image sensor. This 24 MP, full 35 mm format sensor was designed and constructed in collaboration with CMOSIS especially for the camera and its use with M- and R-Lenses. This new development successfully transfers the characteristic advantages of CCD sensors, such as natural and brilliant color rendition and impressive reproduction of details, to a CMOS sensor.  

In combination with the high-performance Leica Maestro processor that is also employed in Leica S cameras, this new full format sensor guarantees maximum imaging quality and speed. Now, all elements in the image creation chain, from the lens to the image file, are under complete control of the Leica engineers. This guarantees the ultimate in imaging performance and quality. An additional highlight is the low power consumption of the components that, in conjunction with the particularly high capacity of the battery, ensures outstanding performance over a long period of use.  

In 1954, the launch of the M-System opened new horizons in reportage and artistic photography. Now at the dawn of a new era in the system’s technology, the Leica M offers a multitude of new features. The first of these are Live View and Live View Focus. Image composition can now take place in real time with the view of the subject through the lens. The sharpness, exposure and color content of images can now be precisely assessed on the camera’s large, 3-inch, high-resolution monitor screen with 920,000 pixels. The glass covering plate of the monitor screen is manufactured from particularly tough and scratch-resistant Corning®Gorilla®Glass. The new Live View function allows photographers to have access to entirely new opportunities that, in combination with the outstanding performance of Leica M- and R-Lenses, go far beyond the classical capabilities of rangefinder photography. This applies particularly to macro and telephoto photography, but also allows even more discreet shooting. In combination with M- and R-Lenses, the camera’s new 1080p Full HD video capability also opens up further opportunities to record memories as they happen.

Ever in pursuit of capturing Henri Cartier-Bresson’s “Decisive Moment,” the Leica M offers two additional focusing methods that can be activated quickly and easily with the new focus button. M-Photographers now have even more options for capturing outstandingly sharp images. The new ‘Live View Zoom’ option enables up to 10 x magnification for precise assessment of the sharpness of subject details or the close focusing limit. The second aid to focusing is ‘Live View Focus Peaking’. Here, contours in the subject are automatically displayed as red lines to allow simple and convenient focus assessment. Focusing precision can be assessed on the basis of the intensity of the lines displayed.

The Leica M’s features are optimally combined with the typical values of the Leica rangefinder system and guarantee the accustomed dependability of the Leica M in all photographic situations, from available light photography to discreet and aesthetic fine-art image composition. In line with the principles of the M-Philosophy, all functions and features are designed and constructed for absolute robustness and a long working life. The top deck and the base plate of the Leica M are machined from solid brass blanks and the full-metal chassis is a completely self-contained diecast element manufactured from high-strength magnesium alloy. Special rubber seals protect the camera body against dust, spray and moisture.

The new rangefinder camera is also a typical M due to its intuitive handling concept with direct manual setting options and fast access to functions. The enhanced layout and particular user-friendliness of the menu interface guarantees a clear and uncomplicated overview of all camera settings at all times. Dedicated button controls have been provided for the Live View and new focusing functions. Live View Zoom and Live View Focus Peaking can be selected with the new focus button on the front of the camera. User profiles can be programmed with any camera and shooting settings, stored under an arbitrary name. They can be accessed quickly whenever required for particular situations and can now also be saved to an SD memory card. For increased comfort in use and harkening to the film advance lever of Leica film cameras, the Leica M now provides an ergonomically formed thumb rest with an integrated setting dial at the top right on the back of the top deck. This ensures that the camera can be held securely in even the most demanding situations.

A wide range of optional accessories is also available for the new Leica M. A particular highlight of the range is a new Leica R-Adapter M that allows almost all R-Lenses ever built to be mounted on the camera. The use of Leica R-System lenses now opens up vast new possibilities for zoom, telephoto and macro photography.

Further accessories are the Leica EVF2, Visoflex electronic viewfinder and a multifunctional handgrip-M with an integrated GPS module that, in combination with optional finger loops in various sizes (S, M and L), helps to ensure safe and steady handling of the camera and lens system. The range also includes a Leica Microphone Adapter set for perfect sound with video recordings.

The Leica M will be available from Leica dealers, including the Leica Store Washington DC, in early 2013 in a choice of black paint or silver chrome finish.

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Leica M Typ 240

Comments

Total comments: 357
123
maniax
By maniax (Sep 18, 2012)

Nice camera, but can it take 35mm rolls?

1 upvote
Plastek
By Plastek (Sep 18, 2012)

Let me guess: Sony sensor?

1 upvote
Knight Palm
By Knight Palm (Sep 18, 2012)

Not Sony, but CMOSIS!!
http://www.cmosis.com/

(This 24 MP, full 35 mm format sensor was designed and constructed in collaboration with CMOSIS especially for the camera and its use with M- and R-Lenses.)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Superka
By Superka (Sep 18, 2012)

read carefully
http://www.cmosis.com/

3 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Sep 18, 2012)

Dear Leica, welcome to 2008!

(but seriously, 1080p and live view are NOT "cutting edge" and whoever wrote the copy needs a boot in the behind for insulting the intelligence of...oh, Leica-philes. N/m. Carry on!)

In all seriousness, it's good to see they got around to adding these features. Price is still bonkers, but at least they're getting closer to being with the times from a tech standpoint. This is a welcome thing.

5 upvotes
lxstorm
By lxstorm (Sep 18, 2012)

Dear micahmedia

How many 35mm camera makers you know that supply customers with APO?

Most Japanese manufactures are not in XX Century yet if using your terminology

LOL

3 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Sep 18, 2012)

Hmm? Are you talking apo glass? Surely that's not a description of Leica lenses: http://goo gl/UCS8G Look at all the CA! Look at it! It's on par with the C&N bottom shelf, and not any better than top shelf.

No, I don't think Leica has a 200mm APO lens. But Nikon surely does! In fact, they had scant past 135, without using a "reflex finder" before this camera.

There is nothing in this camera that other cameras don't have. There is only less. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. But the price is wholly unjustified. Whether it's the result of marketing or a real result of making small run stuff, it seems like a silly business model in the long run. There's a lot of room to innovate here, but all I see is an archaic biz riding everyone else's coat tails. Heck, it's riding it's even own coat tails in the lens dept too.

Why did they (re)introduce a DSLR with one focus point too? The light has long been out, and nobody is home.

2 upvotes
lxstorm
By lxstorm (Sep 18, 2012)

I do not need links to M IQ, Leica M was my primarily 35mm photo-system I owned in the past (I used MF and LF as well). I purchased Konica Hexar RF M lenses because many posters on forums did believe that Japaneses glasses are good too decade ago as well LOL

I can assure you - you get what you pay for!

And yes I agreed with you that amateurs and most pro would definitely benefit from NIKON DSLR with full AUTO priority mode and ZOOM lens;)

Leica M is a special instrument for knowledgeable photographer who understands at least basics let say why 50mm prime is a special lens for a 35mm FF system.

That is why sour grapes comments from chechakos are so funny.

2 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Sep 19, 2012)

You don't want to look at proof of what I'm saying because you don't want your illusions shattered.

Lemme guess, "a reall photographer doesn't need all the bells and whistles"? To that I say, you just wouldn't know what to do with it.

Leica is all about "magic", and magic has nothing to do with knowing what you're doing and everything to do with bullsh!t.

1 upvote
JacquesBalthazar
By JacquesBalthazar (Sep 18, 2012)

I just wish they had been able to retain the dimensions of the M3,2,4, 6 or MP. They already added some fat on the M7, back when. Then much more fat on M8-9. I had the M8 and M9, and still have a M6. It is only millimeters and grams here and there, but there is a world between the handling of a M6 and the handling of the M9. I grew to hate the M9, partly for that reason: it tried to look like my lean and mean M6, but handled like a brik. The new M is even thicker and even heavier than the M9. Still disguised as a Leica M, but is a whole different beast. Bloated. I wish them well but this one makes me sad.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
8 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (Sep 18, 2012)

I wished CLE sized camera. It's digital and shouldnt have to be fat as this.

Comment edited 42 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Kriwoel
By Kriwoel (Sep 19, 2012)

Maybe the CMOSIS sensor is 5mm fatter than previously used CCD sensor

0 upvotes
beaconsfield
By beaconsfield (Sep 25, 2012)

As someone who started with range finders in the good old days, the M is the original and poses no problem for me. This camera will also shaved off one pound in weight compared to my D300 with the 24mm lens. Good that they have finally reached a reasonable level of sophistication but without all the confusing and unnecessary bells and whistles of a Canon or Nikon that distracts. I will be coming home with this camera.

0 upvotes
Alan 43
By Alan 43 (Sep 29, 2012)

Well. the highly anticipated "M10" has finally arrived and nearly everyone's wishes, no matter how extreme, were met. But at what cost? As Jacques has so aptly and poignantly described above, this M bears only a passing resemblance to the relatively svelte M film cameras of old, whose handling characteristics have been missed by many of us in their digital successors.

Perhaps Leica should have produced a really meaningful alternative to this new M, instead of the M-E. For example, the newly announced Fujifilm X-E1 is virtually "old M" size, but has "only" a 2.36 million dot OLED EVF and the features, including the same highly praised proprietary 16.3 MP APS-C X-Trans sensor, of their larger X-Pro 1. If Leica were to go this route and house it in a traditional metal body that resembles my beautiful millenium edition M6, this camera might tempt even the most uncompromising OVF-only and full-sensor-at-any-cost Leicaphile to reevaluate his priorities. I can only dream.

0 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (Sep 18, 2012)

Why the body is thicker than M9? Fat and ugly.

4 upvotes
schorscho
By schorscho (Sep 18, 2012)

Well some people judge from the spec sheet and never had a real Leica in their hands. I was one of them till I actually photographed with one. Everything is so smooth it's a real joy to use it one can not imagine without actually using one.
I stopped complaining and I'm sure one day I will own one.....

4 upvotes
avicenanw
By avicenanw (Sep 18, 2012)

Jack up the price of any camera high enough, and it will have the same feeling.

1 upvote
dash2k8
By dash2k8 (Sep 18, 2012)

@schorscho, I own an M9 and must say that the price is really hard to justify at times. You will agree that the C/P is nowhere close to a Canon/Nikon body. It's a wonderful piece to own, but it does far less for a higher price.

0 upvotes
hc44
By hc44 (Sep 18, 2012)

"the Leica M was created to capture fleeting moments of time and transform them into living history. "

Gosh darn it, my Sony only takes pictures!

34 upvotes
Rob13
By Rob13 (Sep 18, 2012)

To replace the red Leica dot is almost $50 so I'm sure its not a typo.
$6,950 is a bargain for a Leica M product.

OMG

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 18, 2012)

I think Leica is now difficult in its positioning.
Pure craftsmanship? Pure optical? Pure electronics?
A mixture of the three elements looks difficult in its positioning in the huge market spectrum.
Is this M just an intermediate product between the past and the future but without long life?

1 upvote
love_them_all
By love_them_all (Sep 18, 2012)

The gap is widen every year. The big three is upgrading their sensor by generations in 3 yrs. Leica is not pure electronics for sure. Too bad there is not such a thing as a mechanical digital camera. I respect their optics but the bodies are not what the film M used to be. That's why I'm still keeping my M4P.

And to be able to shoot R lenses on digital there are just too many better choices. And M lenses too very soon!

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 18, 2012)

Oh,M4.... My most loved camera when I was in the primary school, it was so beautiful, much better than M3 and M5.... but I never own one.
My first Leica was already in the era of M6, with a 35/2 as my first Leica lens.
But frankly, the digital Leica is so expensive now.... especially when there are lot more choices of digital cameras in the market.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 18, 2012)

When talking about M4, it also reminded me another beautiful machine.... The Beaulieu 4008ZM4.
Is anyone here know where can I buy a "new" 4008ZM4?

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Sep 18, 2012)

Is that a typo in the text?

Surely, the price of this thing has gotta be $695 and not $6,950, right? Either way, for those who like the retro look, I think this baby for seven hundred bucks might be a good choice, I am not too sure about the seven thousand part, however.

6 upvotes
Silvio_m
By Silvio_m (Sep 18, 2012)

What do u mean seven hundred bucks!!??! It's a damn Leica Man! sure it is 7 thousand bucks!!!

2 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Sep 18, 2012)

Okay, okay, seven hundred, but throw in free shipping and a free camera case as well!

3 upvotes
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

Francis... You always post similar comments about expensive gear. It is not because something is out of reach financially that there is no value in it.
If you'd have taken pictures with Leica gear before then you'd realise that they can produce very nice pictures, the kind you have not seen from say a Panasonic mirrorless, nice as they are.

1 upvote
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Sep 18, 2012)

Chad is absolutely a troll. But Leica is also absolutely the emperor's new clothes.

You're paying for what you don't get. In this case, you're getting a manual focus D600/6D. I guess you could even mount Nikon or Canon lenses now though, since you can actually see what's going on with them now with live view! But you can do that with the N&C gear too.

With the Q mode on the Nikon, yet I don't even think there's a big difference with the shutter noise. In fact, it's even quieter in live view. So's the D800--try it!

Iono...I'd be happy to compare shots between my GX1 and an M9. Shot side by side in raw, I suspect there'd not be much to compare, except DOF. If someone in PDX wants to try, I'd be game.

2 upvotes
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

Well, dof is very important in the quality effect. Leica does that very beautifully. Of course they are sharp as well with little CA but its mainly the way they render DOF that sets them art in my opinion

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Andrew Butterfield
By Andrew Butterfield (Sep 18, 2012)

Once you start building up your lens collection, you'll realise that $7K for the body actually wasn't that bad...

2 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Sep 18, 2012)

Fully agreed with you, micahmedia. A camera that may be lauded for a $700 price or even for $1,500 will only be ridiculed left, right, and center for a preposterous $7,000. Not everybody out there is a fool with their money, fortunately.

I am also curios, would it be nice to see a full list of all the companies that Leica is sourcing the component parts for their cameras.

1 upvote
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 19, 2012)

Francis, a Leica costs more but it s for photographers who aspire for more than just shooting ducks in the pond.
Google the work of Ralph Gibson. Most of his work is shot with a Leica. These are not pictures by a fool.

0 upvotes
Sixpm
By Sixpm (Sep 18, 2012)

It's strange how one's mind changes over time!

I was a keen Leica M8/8.2 user for at least 3 years, but with the arrival of the micro 4/3rd cameras and because of the weight issue, I no longer has the urge to use any heavy camera and the Leica digital M's are now feels weight of a brick on my neck. Plus the fact a good 12MP is good enough to go to 40" x 30" and so the mega pixel is no longer the issue for me.

With the amount of different type of camera on the market now, one is spoiled for choices both in terms of price, weight, function and the most important of all is the abundance of quality as all formats now closely matching as the digital technology gets betters.

3 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (Sep 18, 2012)

As an ex-Leica user please do tell us whether Leica produces image quality you could produce using any other camera costing a fraction of a Leica. The Leica myth is a myth. Even Foveon X3 struggles to make a difference anymore nowadays with, as you mentioned, dramatic improvements in camera technology.

4 upvotes
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

RStyga, no it is not a myth. The lenses render differently than my nikon lenses at similar apertures. The results can be very nice indeed. I don't have a Leica. i am quite happy with my Nikon gear and occasional use of Fuji and Rolleiflex medium format cameras, but I do realise from personal experience that you can get top quality results from Leica lenses. Of course they are expensive. Too expensive probably, but they offer a very tangible quality.

4 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Sep 18, 2012)

...the sensor renders different. If you could slap the same lenses on the same sensor, then you'd have a more even comparison. The biggest thing I see with Leicas is vignetting, crap high ISO results, and sometimes odd shaped bokeh closed down with point lights. Oh, and coma. Did I miss anything? Yeah, a clunky user interface that you can get with any other camera.

0 upvotes
Klarno
By Klarno (Sep 18, 2012)

This might be everything I've ever wanted from a Leica.

4 upvotes
tkpenalty
By tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2012)

This is probably one of the first leica's I can take seriously. It's quite unusual that they leave so much customisation open; its almost as much as a DSLR. I think what will be most interesting is the fact that the leica can mount DSLR lenses now since the live view will let them be used. -puts an EF 50mm f1.8 II on a M-

2 upvotes
cjhwang
By cjhwang (Sep 19, 2012)

you won't be able to use EF (canon) lenses because it doesn't have a Manual Aperture Control. The older Nikon (non G) lenses yes.

0 upvotes
Toccata47
By Toccata47 (Sep 18, 2012)

Oh yay! Focus peaking and an addon evf. Now all they need are some nice zooms and they'll have one heck of a nice nex on their hands!

I've owned leica stuff for years, but I really think they've gone off the tracks with this and the m-e. That a "no" on the m10 for me.

2 upvotes
zoranT
By zoranT (Sep 18, 2012)

It looks so delicate that I cannot imagine someone actually taking pictures with it. It is the Catherine Deneuve of cameras.

2 upvotes
JackM
By JackM (Sep 18, 2012)

On the contrary. You could get a bag of nails and build a house with it.

4 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Sep 18, 2012)

...when's the last time you used a brass hammer?

0 upvotes
Bruce Granofsky
By Bruce Granofsky (Sep 18, 2012)

Mmmm, Delicious!

1 upvote
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Sep 18, 2012)

Sony and FujiFilm should totally steal the viewfinder of this camera and plop it in their El Cheapo Photo Gizmo and the common people will rejoice... (and walk away from the silly 5K price tag of some emotional brand name...)

.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
GabrielZ
By GabrielZ (Sep 18, 2012)

Like your avatar.

0 upvotes
Frank C.
By Frank C. (Sep 18, 2012)

this or a new car for my kids... hmmmmmmm.................

2 upvotes
thx1138
By thx1138 (Sep 18, 2012)

If you add in glass it's this or a new house!

The Sony RX1 suddenly looks amazing value :)

6 upvotes
ppastoris
By ppastoris (Sep 18, 2012)

thx1138, where do you live? in a shed for 10-20k$? :))

2 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Sep 18, 2012)

are they old enough to drive? hmmmmmmm....... :)

0 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 18, 2012)

We will have at least the satisfaction that in any test we will not read anymore that the D600 or A99 make a better shot, it is the same sensor. Remains the absence of mirror, this can give it a serious advantage, the lenses can be used on the other brand with adapters too, so all plays on the mirror absence. But, I will not pay a surplus of 5000$ for that only. Bet all you want that NEX-7 with same lens makes the same good or even better shot. I have seen A99 and D600 shots. Up to 3200 Iso, A99 is cleaner and better than D600. Also the A99 body offers much more working comfort and the price difference is justified, it is an amazing piece of technology and D600 looks a bit poor compared to it. I do not compare this Leica to it, that would be waste of time. Starting by the price, all comment is useless. The day Leica sells it's cameras at a real value price, one can consider doing it.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Sep 18, 2012)

But it doesn't say the M uses a Sony sensor. Do you think the claims about a Cmosis sensor are a fraud?

0 upvotes
wchutt
By wchutt (Sep 18, 2012)

It certainly is not the same SONY sensor.

I do think their color superiority claims are fraudulent. Their marketing prpaganda for the M8 being a lifetime investment didn't work out unless the LCD screen lasts forever. Why should he sensor magic be any different?

1 upvote
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

CMOSIS is NOT Sony. It is a Belgian company that designs sensors for various usages.
It will be ineresting to compare the picture quality with a qsony of similar resolution.

3 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Sep 18, 2012)

Something tells me it is the Sony sensor, with Cmosis microlens array to correct for crazy non-telecentric M and R lenses.

1 upvote
plasnu
By plasnu (Sep 18, 2012)

If not Sony, bad high ISO. Sony sensor can produce rich color, which has been proven by Fuji X.

1 upvote
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

No guys, you.re assuming too much. Cmosis is quite an active sensor developer for the industrial market. They have nothing, nada, zilch to do with sony.

1 upvote
Knight Palm
By Knight Palm (Sep 18, 2012)

Re:" If not Sony, bad high ISO. Sony sensor can produce rich color, which has been proven by Fuji X."

That's not a correct assessment!

Rather it's about the Sony column ADC that gives low shadow noise. Any CMOS sensor will provide advantages at high ISO over CCD, so that's not the discriminatory parameter.

0 upvotes
Emacs23
By Emacs23 (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm afraid to upset you, but fuji color is the worst at the current market. Their color profiles are excellent, but the CFA they uses prevent from picking the accurate color measurements due to increased gaps between blues and reds compared to bayer CFA. You'll get better color representation with any other camera with the same Sony 16Mp EXMOR sensor (yes, fuji uses this sensor too).

0 upvotes
Hynee
By Hynee (Sep 18, 2012)

So that's a monaural mic on the top plate, to the left, and a movie rec button to the right? And it has a speaker to the right of the screen?

Will it take microphones through its finder port, below the shoe?

0 upvotes
intruder61
By intruder61 (Sep 18, 2012)

"groundbreaking milestone".......thats as far as i got to reading the above.

0 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Sep 18, 2012)

The price is incredibly low .. considering this camera is handled more and worked on manually in and during the manufacture than most other cameras are being handled after the manufacture.
I like the fact that the price puts people off; it changes the perspective about what some cameras deserve to be, but what we tediously want to kill — to be a real value, not a cost.

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
mischivo
By mischivo (Sep 18, 2012)

The latter part of your post doesn't make much sense. The first part is wrong. :^)

2 upvotes
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (Sep 18, 2012)

"I like the fact that the price puts people off".
I know lots of rich people who would find that offensive.

1 upvote
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Sep 18, 2012)

No, it's about price being a barrier to dumb down everything into a fast food for consumerist mentality. Many people who complain here about this M, *can* afford this camera, if they saved for some months — like we did in 1950's/60's/70's. But they won't, because cameras in their minds represent no real value any more. It's easier to complain than make an effort. But those who make such an effort, will be called 'snobs' right?

6 upvotes
Dave Luttmann
By Dave Luttmann (Sep 18, 2012)

Agree completely. Like McDonald's vs a fine restaurant. Funny how some people think a hand made camera should be in the same price league as a conveyor belt plastic camera.

5 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (Sep 18, 2012)

Stereo type.

Even Canon Compact is hand made with metal case and it's $200. No conveyor is used to produce the camera.

0 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 18, 2012)

If we wait 3 or 4 generations further, we get one at 1800$, just like at all other brands. A bit expensive for a FF NEX with a 24 mix Sony sensor.

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Sep 18, 2012)

Not likely a Sony sensor, because of the Cmosis thing.

Also Leicas are not like the "other brands", with dull lenses doing poor colour.

1 upvote
zos xavius
By zos xavius (Sep 18, 2012)

@HowaboutRAW: Because leica is the only company that can make great glass and nobody else can match leica color? Riiiiiiiight. I hear leicas take perfect pictures without even a moon in the sky! Without stabilization too!

1 upvote
nawknai
By nawknai (Sep 18, 2012)

Nope, because Leica's aren't expensive due to the reasons that other companies can make an expensive camera. Leica was even expensive when people were using film, and the same type of film that cheap cameras could use, no less!

2 upvotes
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

CMOSIS is NOT Sony. It is a Belgian company that designs sensors for various usages.
It will be ineresting to compare the picture quality with a Sony of similar resolution.

1 upvote
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Sep 18, 2012)

$1800 Leica? Uh, no.

0 upvotes
kewlguy
By kewlguy (Sep 17, 2012)

Finally! Let's see how soon it will be available! Though hopefully the CCD look can be retained with this new sensor...

1 upvote
Rob13
By Rob13 (Sep 17, 2012)

First let me say, I've got a few Leicas, but to me the M is still falling short. The only good point is that they didn't set the price at $7k!

So my major beef is that....
...without an anti-shake sensor we're still not quite there.
Can you imagine what your videos and low light stills are going to look like?
I guess that leap in technology may have to wait for another couple of years, along with a facelift on an ageing body style.

Was there any discussion of the low light-high ISO performance? Hopefully, its a leap forward...

What we need is a full frame NEX-7 or full frame Ricoh GXR which have nice compact bodies to slap on the M glass and it'll be bye-bye Leica.

1 upvote
macjonny1
By macjonny1 (Sep 17, 2012)

ISO up to 6400.

videos without anti-shake sensor and low light stills will look just like every other camera, of which there are many, without anti-shake sensor. My videos with my Nikon D800E and 85mm f/1.4 look fine. No anti-shake. Never shoot above 6400 ISO.

0 upvotes
Rooru S
By Rooru S (Sep 17, 2012)

Rob13:
"First let me say, I've got a few Leicas, but to me the M is still falling short. The only good point is that they didn't set the price at $7k!"

C'mon... good point? It's priced at $6,950...just 50 bucks short of the $7k mark. Think about a good "good" point like they're still producing M-bodies. After Kodak bankrupcty, I was wondering what manufacturer they were going to use for these cameras.

0 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Sep 18, 2012)

If you want to shoot good video you use a tripod. If you just want hobbyist video just wave it around like everyone else.
As Leica has done very well in the IQ dept befor (albeit at lower ISOs) I would be optimistic that this is a very good camera in both IQ and ISO performance. As there is also video capability I suspect that Sony may have quite a bit to do with the engineering.

1 upvote
robmanueb
By robmanueb (Sep 18, 2012)

Henri Cartier-Bresson managed an entire career without antishake, not to mention he was stuck with the lower ISO capability of film. I think people will manage.

4 upvotes
zos xavius
By zos xavius (Sep 18, 2012)

And film also hid camera shake a bit more than digital. Slight movements would cause less sharpness, but not really in an unpleasing way unlike digital that ghosts. Also people were far more tolerant slightly less sharp pictures 50 years ago. The times have really changed from Cartier-Bresson's day. He had severe technical limitations. Right now we have no excuses. Our cameras are more capable than many of us. Our multisegment meters far more accurate than anything he had. He was a true master, but digital is a whole different world. I shoot film sometimes just to feel what the past was like. Creating a physical image is a powerful thing in a way.

0 upvotes
alexst4
By alexst4 (Sep 17, 2012)

Ridiculously overpriced...
What do people find so attractive in these dated body designs? a-la retro?
Is this nostagia? Back when these boxy designs appeard it was out of necessity, not because it was 'cool'.
These designs are not ergonomic to say the least :) This leica even has a screw for a mecanical sutter release, I mean...really?
I bet the average age of the buyer is around 70 years old :) and they buy this because thay're rich and this is how they remember a camera should look like... lol

3 upvotes
Anastigmat
By Anastigmat (Sep 17, 2012)

Yes they are overpriced, but that is the price they need to survive as a small company that sells a small number of bodies. One can say that Ferrari is overpiced, but people still want them. The Leica is partly a status symbol and partly a unique tool that is no longer made by other camera makers. People valued them because they are unobtrusive. People tend to freeze up when they see a big SLR camera, but they tend to ignore photograhers with rangefinder cameras. Therefore Leicas are often used for candid photography, and some presidential photographers like to use them for this reason.

9 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Sep 17, 2012)

As its a hobby is there such a thing as overpriced?

And even so, can you find something just like it?

Comment edited 44 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
alexst4
By alexst4 (Sep 17, 2012)

Ferrari can do many things that an orinary car can not. I know why I would be paying the money for a Ferrari, because of its specs.
Now, I can get Leica specs for much less money, plus a pile more of useful specs on top of that, there're plenty of choices out there...
However some people would just buy a Ferrari (or Leica for that matter) to be the "cool kid" and to show that they have money...

Well, I can't tell people what they should do with their money, but whoever buys Leica does not do it because of its features, its more a fashion piece than anything else...

0 upvotes
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (Sep 18, 2012)

Regarding the Ferrari, you've missed the point. If all a Ferrari is is spec, then why not get a similarly spec'd Acura and save a lot of money? Or a Toyota Supra, or Fair Lady Z?

Some products exist in different price echelons. Some people find those products worth it and desirable. Some don't. Leica don't pander to the cost-cutting, penny-pinching, benchmarks-are-god people. They make cameras as they always have (aside from the S) and will continue to for as long as there is business.

If the only way to think is cheap and price-performance, everyone everywhere should be buying Walmart shoes and clothes only. No brand names, just mass-market products stripped from banana republics. Leica still make their stuff in Germany and pay German wages.

These Japanese and Korean companies do NOT unless you pay the same amount. It's all about how much the maker wants to exploit not only the market, but the people who make the products they market.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Sep 18, 2012)

shigzeo ?

For years, until Leica was near bankruptcy, Leica made very good M lenses in Canada too.

0 upvotes
Maji
By Maji (Sep 18, 2012)

Shigzeo,
From what I have read, Leice has a large factory in Portugal where it manufactures a large number of items. I am sure Leica cameras are fine machines and the lenses are probably one of the best out there. However, they are status symbols and fashion statements too. Nothing wrong with that... it is the buyers money that he/she is spending.

0 upvotes
mario alessi
By mario alessi (Sep 18, 2012)

The same reason people still write with a pencil or pen of a similar diameter. Ones that are way think or thick or with new weird design are not necessarily better. And while some think canned spaghetti and sauce is no different than homemade, some enjoy the feeling they get when using one over the other.

0 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Sep 18, 2012)

Same reason why some Swiss watches still sell even though there are multi-featured Casio's around. It's not mainly the purpose alone, but the tool itself. Like the others said, Leica is a luxury brand; so, it's sold at a luxury price.

Some may also argue with regular wine and aged ones... the list goes on. As far as luxury items go, so does the price :)

Comment edited 21 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
gustabod
By gustabod (Sep 18, 2012)

I don't think the point of this camera is for the typical reader of DP review, who are serious about their photography. So you are Leica, a company with an appealing brand (much like a french bag maker or swiss watch factory) to people that want to show off their (newly acquired) wealth. Unfortunately this market can't work out how to use a rangefinder in its truest form, they can only manage a point and shoot. So what do you do? hey! add live view with focussing aids and a movie mode! Now you have broader appeal and a cashed up buyer who "only wants the best".

0 upvotes
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (Sep 18, 2012)

@HowaboutRAW,

Yes, you are right. One thing, however, is that whether Canada or Portugal, Leica don't exploit the global slave force the same as Nikon/Canon/Samsung/Apple, etc., for which I am glad of.

I cannot afford a Leica camera, and even if I could, would probably opt for a different brand for digital. I am about to trade up to a Leica M3 soon, however for film as my lenses are changing systems.

0 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Sep 17, 2012)

Now when a LV is offered, and one can actually see the camera exposure, does it make sense to finally upgrade the M body to include a small EV compensation dial, like Fuji did on their X bodies? I understand the M body was designed long ago and left unchanged, but still it doesn't mean it cannot be updated and made even better for full manual control of most important parameters of capture that were almost unthinkable to control (so easily) in film days ..

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
1 upvote
pxchoi
By pxchoi (Sep 17, 2012)

It looks like they added a wheel on the back of the camera, top right hand corner.

0 upvotes
wchutt
By wchutt (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh praise be!

After all these years someone finally got color quality right on CMOS. Every time I looked at a Nikon or Canon photo all I could think was, "when will they ever get those colors to be just like a CCD sensors' 'natural and brilliant' colors." Finally SONY and Canon's incompetence is corrected. Pros will now flock to the new CMOSIS technology or go bankrupt.

What a joke. At least Leica is consistant by invoking magic Leica sauce in every digital product they ever made. Everyone without a CMOSIS or CC'D sensor remains a second rate photographer.

0 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Sep 18, 2012)

Resale value is important. Especially for the hobbyist. As far as I can tell most buy an expensive camera and baby it for a year and try to sell it used for 10% less than new. With the Leica you can get another couple of years out of it before losing too much.

2 upvotes
Gergob
By Gergob (Sep 17, 2012)

I'd rather buy 2 Canon 5D Mark III's and have $32 left.

1 upvote
ray07
By ray07 (Sep 17, 2012)

Buy one D800 and 5D3 better.....ha

5 upvotes
KTSFotos
By KTSFotos (Sep 17, 2012)

Not even need to be a D800 or 5DMKIII, may be even lower, is enough.

1 upvote
Anastigmat
By Anastigmat (Sep 17, 2012)

20-30 years from now, the Leica may be worth more than they do now. The Canon 5DIII may be sold for $500 if you are lucky.

3 upvotes
KTSFotos
By KTSFotos (Sep 17, 2012)

Who cares about the sale of camera? I buy equipment to use not to sell in 20 years.

2 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Sep 17, 2012)

No current digital camera will be worth anything in 20 years. Or 10 years. A Leica M3, M2, M4 all take the same quality photos so there is no downside to using this type of "classic" older camera.

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Sep 18, 2012)

Anastigmat has a point. Not that I'm being a Leica knight here, but some items are really made for going down the history lane... some may survive only in memory, but some, were meant to be glass-cased in a museum. Like some Leica's... timeless.

0 upvotes
Pix Man
By Pix Man (Sep 17, 2012)

Wow, they've really hit the nail on the head this time. And totally, totally, GORGEOUS.

2 upvotes
mick232
By mick232 (Sep 17, 2012)

24MP CMOS sensor... sounds like it could be a Sony sensor.

0 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Sep 17, 2012)

For Christ's sake! It's been written a thousand times that it isn't!

6 upvotes
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (Sep 17, 2012)

Does it matter? Do people care? Couldn't be any worse than what they're currently using right?

1 upvote
Midwest
By Midwest (Sep 17, 2012)

Christ has nothing to do with the sensor or the suggestion that Sony makes it.

2 upvotes
mick232
By mick232 (Sep 17, 2012)

Indeed, CMOSIS then...

1 upvote
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

CMOSIS is NOT Sony. It is a Belgian company that designs sensors for various usages. It will be ineresting to compare the picture quality with a Sony of similar resolution.

0 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (Sep 18, 2012)

It's not sony, so don't expect noisless high ISO image.

0 upvotes
Hamey
By Hamey (Sep 17, 2012)

As an owner and user of both R and M lenses, this could be the one.
First I need to valuate the M and how capable it is with my R lenses.

Now Canon has also released the 6D the choice becomes harder.

With me its Leica from the Heart, and Canon from the Brain....Lol.

1 upvote
tominhk
By tominhk (Sep 17, 2012)

re Leica glass... Is it not possible for Canon or nikon etc to make the same? Maybe an L plus lens? And match with a body with no aa filter?

0 upvotes
Andrew53
By Andrew53 (Sep 17, 2012)

I have the 50mm Summilux and the 50mm f1.2L. I like the L images more. Although the Lux is sharper across the frame, bokeh is nicer with the Canon. Both are excellent lenses.

0 upvotes
macjonny1
By macjonny1 (Sep 17, 2012)

Andrew53 wow you are prob the only person to ever have said those words. Bravo!

0 upvotes
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (Sep 18, 2012)

Of course they can make similar quality glass, but it will be made all electronic, and thus prone to breakage, hardware updates, and none of these autofocus lenses work properly on other systems. Leica glass is all mechanical and stands the test of time.

It is also made for rangefinders, so can be small. Compare a leica 35/1,4 to a Nikon 35/1,4 and see. The lens holds probably 4x the volume of the Leica, if not more, and is far heavier.

Nikon and Canon are on a 'big' kick. Their cameras are getting bigger and bigger every generation since the F5. Their lenses are silly. Put two of those in your bag and you have more weight than a Leica system with the same focal length and an extra lens, plus a lot more space taken up.

I don't own Leica, but I shoot with a Canon P and L lenses. Absolutely unbelievable the size difference.

0 upvotes
alfaflash
By alfaflash (Sep 17, 2012)

I always bought Leica optics, but never Leica bodies. The lenses are unbeatable, but the bodies are behind the times and don't offer the features of a NEX or a FF Canon. I'm getting great results from a NEX 7 with a Leica Macro-Elmar-M 90mm f/4, and Metabones adapter. The best part is that I will be able to upgrade to the next generation body without having to sell a kidney. I think people who get goofy about Leica bodies are just looking for recognition for having cool equipment.

2 upvotes
macjonny1
By macjonny1 (Sep 17, 2012)

That's what folks like about Leica bodies. The lack of features. They are the anti-NEX (well, at least until now). I had a Fuji X100 and got rid of it because of all the crappy menu junk.

1 upvote
GabrielZ
By GabrielZ (Sep 17, 2012)

OMG I'm smitten! This is the Leica M-series I've been waiting for! Beautiful, versatile, fantastic. When Leica released the M-Monochrom a while back, I lamented the fact they didn't release an M10 and went on to give my wish list of features a potential future M10 might have, and for the most part this is it! All I have to do now is get rich so I can afford to buy one of these...ha ha, fat chance but I can dream!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
8 upvotes
nawknai
By nawknai (Sep 17, 2012)

Yeah, and what feature was that, faster manual focus?

1 upvote
GabrielZ
By GabrielZ (Sep 17, 2012)

Go find my comment on the M-Monochrom page if you're so interested troll.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
nawknai
By nawknai (Sep 17, 2012)

Why the hell would I go and search for one of your posts? Are they that important?

I understand the new feature. I was just wondering whetherpeople really asking for focus peaking from their Leica?

I understand why a Fuji, Sony NEX, Samsung NX, or Panny/Oly m4/3 user would ask for it --- their systems suck for manual focus. And DSLRs......forget MF. In most situations, they're horrible with MF, and pointless since you're still relying on a green dot to appear in the OVF when you achieve focus. The camera still determines whether the image is in focus. The only thing the user does is drive the lens instead of the AF motor.

Rangefinders are already great at fast, accurate manual focus. Focus peaking is a great feature, but I don't know why you'd buy a rangefinder if you didn't think you could achieve focus manually. I suppose there may be an old Leica user who wants to upgrade, but doesn't have good enough eyesight to use a rangefinder anymore?

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
mikiev
By mikiev (Sep 17, 2012)

For Nawknai

From the article:

"The new Live View function allows photographers to have access to entirely new opportunities that, in combination with the outstanding performance of Leica M- and R-Lenses, go far beyond the classical capabilities of rangefinder photography. This applies particularly to macro and telephoto photography, but also allows even more discreet shooting."

My interpretation of the market-speak:

Macro: Don't have to worry about parallax in composition, especially if using a lens that doens't have framing-marks in the viewfinder.

Can be a little more "descreet" in candid photography by using rear LCD for composition & focus - though fixed LCD is sub-optimal.

Telephoto becomes workable, because the range-finder view isn't magnified enough to be as accurate at longer distances.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
GabrielZ
By GabrielZ (Sep 17, 2012)

For Nawknai: My posts are not that important, I interpreted your comment as some kind of cynical remark rather than a genuine question as trolls tend to pop up in these forums on occasion. It seems that mikiev has answered it, all the best.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
nicolaiecostel
By nicolaiecostel (Sep 17, 2012)

I know I will sound like a bit of an ignorant, but how is Leica still going ? I know that for a company to survive, it must have big sale values, albeit at high prices. I mean, Pentax sells loads more than Leica but it still went bust a few times. Who buys these overpriced allmost-one-offs, in such large quantities so that a company cand afford to pay the personell, invest in R&D and so on ?

0 upvotes
beckmarc
By beckmarc (Sep 17, 2012)

Less is more!

0 upvotes
spidermoon
By spidermoon (Sep 17, 2012)

They sell Panasonic rebadged camera to survive :)

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Sep 17, 2012)

Doctors and lawyers make up the bulk of Leica buyers. For some, its because they used Leitz microscopes at school or for their work. For others, who have more money than time, they want to reward themselves with the "best". It may not be the best in every instance but it's the most expensive and that's close enough.

1 upvote
Alex Leach
By Alex Leach (Sep 18, 2012)

I am not a doctor or lawyer, I go to work by bus, and am an M9 user. I just saved by not drinking or smoking, and by living frugally. The M9 is a great camera to use, the simplicity is the key. Not sure I like this M with video, and a scroll wheel is seriously uncool..

1 upvote
spidermoon
By spidermoon (Sep 17, 2012)

OMG, a FF Fujix X-PRO1 :) Even lenses looks the same, but hopefully with distance scale.

0 upvotes
stuntmonkey
By stuntmonkey (Sep 17, 2012)

All Leica's are beautiful, but this is not necessarily a beautiful Leica. I suppose the LCD needs to be bigger, but the proportions on the back panel don't look optimal.

2 upvotes
Mark Wolg
By Mark Wolg (Sep 17, 2012)

Anyone note the all importance reference to weather / dust sealing? Looking forward to finding out how seriously they took that aspect.

2 upvotes
MrPetkus
By MrPetkus (Sep 17, 2012)

Beautiful piece of hardware.

4 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (Sep 18, 2012)

Only the case. Internally, it's full of dated technologies.

0 upvotes
Tom Caldwell
By Tom Caldwell (Sep 17, 2012)

Over enthusiastic copy-writer it seems. Read as "The first Leica camera" rather than "The first camera". Amongst other things Leica did not invent focus peaking assist. However not to depreciate what seems to be a fine camera. Now "live view" and focus peaking assist will make framing, focusing easier and more precise, especially with zoom (grin).

Comment edited 53 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Viramati
By Viramati (Sep 18, 2012)

Placed my order. Roll on january snow and all

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
alexpaynter
By alexpaynter (Sep 17, 2012)

Does it really cost anything to leave movie mode in?

They removed it just to make the leap to the M9 justified.

Is that a second viewfinder mounted on top. Perhaps if Leica feels the centre is the best position for a viewfinder, they should put it there in the first place.

0 upvotes
spidermoon
By spidermoon (Sep 17, 2012)

Top is an EVF, probably the same than Olympus one. The left is what makes Leica a true rangefinder.

0 upvotes
Joseph S Wisniewski
By Joseph S Wisniewski (Sep 17, 2012)

There never was a movie mode to "leave in" before. Leica used Kodak CCD sensors for DMR, M8 and M9, and those sensors don't do movies. This is their first movie mode sensor, from a new player called CMOSIS.

There is no "leap to the M9", because the M9 is discontinued. The M-E uses up the old M9 sensors.

5 upvotes
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 17, 2012)

That pic with the telezoom...holy FrankenLeica!!

2 upvotes
ProfHankD
By ProfHankD (Sep 17, 2012)

This is a real step forward for Leica... the only problem is that it's the same step everybody is taking right now. Still, pretty competitively priced for Leica. ;)

3 upvotes
JackM
By JackM (Sep 17, 2012)

$50 less than an M9, woo hoo.

2 upvotes
Aleo Veuliah
By Aleo Veuliah (Sep 17, 2012)

Leica is really great, simple and last forever. And allow the photographer to concentrate in taking pictures and not get lost in menus and buttons.

4 upvotes
Tom Caldwell
By Tom Caldwell (Sep 17, 2012)

I hope the concentration in taking pictures is not lost by the distraction of live view and focus peaking assist (grin)

2 upvotes
alexst4
By alexst4 (Sep 17, 2012)

Yes, the progress now seems to be taking away features and calling it "less is more" and then charging ridiculous price for the "new" creation. Any decent camera can last "forever" if you take care of it.
If you get lost in the menus, just get a film camera, otherwise being "lost in menus" is a ridiculous argument.
I mean if a menu can distract you from taking pictures, do you really call yourself a photographer after that?

0 upvotes
vincenzo_filippo
By vincenzo_filippo (Sep 17, 2012)

Please dpreview can you post the price in Euro too and not only in us dollar and GB pound ? Thanks

15 upvotes
Aleo Veuliah
By Aleo Veuliah (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree, it seems Dpreview does not know about the whole Europe.

5 upvotes
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh, simply use regular conversion 1 USD = 1 EUR. Sure its wrong, but it pretty much always is like that.. and I hate it.

3 upvotes
Aleo Veuliah
By Aleo Veuliah (Sep 17, 2012)

Yes, is what I have to do, but Dpreview should include the orice in Euros. Europe is a big place with many photographers, and it is the source of Photography.

2 upvotes
increments
By increments (Sep 17, 2012)

It's rare enough to get a UK price. Seems to depend on the press release.

0 upvotes
photon flux
By photon flux (Sep 17, 2012)

€6,200 according to digitalkamera.de for the new Leica M
€4,800 for the new Leica M-E (same sensor as M9)

0 upvotes
GabrielZ
By GabrielZ (Sep 17, 2012)

I like Aleo Veuliah's avatar.

0 upvotes
DStudio
By DStudio (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree with increments - I think DPReview has nothing to do with it.

0 upvotes
Peiasdf
By Peiasdf (Sep 17, 2012)

In 5 years, even Hasselblad will have SONY sensors.

13 upvotes
wildbild
By wildbild (Sep 17, 2012)

in 5 years hassy will use fuji sensors;-)

6 upvotes
Emacs23
By Emacs23 (Sep 17, 2012)

@wildbild
Taking into account fuji uses sony sensors, it will have SONY sensor anyway ;)

1 upvote
wildbild
By wildbild (Sep 17, 2012)

@Emacs23
taking into account that fujifilm only uses them in their crappy point&shoots but has always been developing their own sensors with great dynamic range—what I just said was not a wild guess.

and don't forget that hasselblad H system cameras have been developed together with fujifilm and they are over 50% fujifilm medium format cameras…! the hasselblad branding just sells so much better.

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (Sep 17, 2012)

X100 is crappy point and shoot? Wouldnt say that.. Neither is X10. And X-Pro 1 is most likely Sony too. If its not Aptina but I seriously doubt that, cause its slightly too good for that.

Just cause you put different CFA and AA on sensor it wont make different sensor. I dont like to burst your bubble, but X-Pro 1 doesnt have some miraculous DR. At best it will achieve Pentax K-5 level. Different CFA wont help with DR and it certainly isnt that nice Super CCD technology Fuji used.

Last large sensor from Fuji was in S5 Pro. Then they used Super CCD in couple of compacts (actually owned few myself too). Today they apparently abadoned that tech and are using regular CMOS in everything. From Sony.

And to topic. Leica sensor is made by Belgium company specilized in industry grade sensors (large ones), today shifting towards manufacturing regular camera sensors, next camera with their sensor should be medium format CMOS (apparently first of its kind). Company name is CMOSIS.

0 upvotes
Emacs23
By Emacs23 (Sep 17, 2012)

@wildbild, I don't know what are you smoking, but fuji uses the same A580, Pentax K-5, Nikon D7000, NEX-5N 16Mp sensor with custom buyer filter in XPro and now in XE-1.

0 upvotes
DigitalPowerShot
By DigitalPowerShot (Sep 17, 2012)

The sonsor in the M is not a Sony sensor!

0 upvotes
Revenant
By Revenant (Sep 17, 2012)

And the X-Pro1 and X10 sensors aren't made by Sony either; they're made by Toshiba.

0 upvotes
Joseph S Wisniewski
By Joseph S Wisniewski (Sep 17, 2012)

Fuji's own sensor operation died with the S5. It's a pity, some of their sensors were amazing.

"In 5 years, even Hasselblad will have SONY sensors."

My prediction is that, in 18 months, Hasselblad will be liquidated, and their assets bought up by Phase One, just like Leaf and Mamiya were.

If they survive, expect to see CMOSIS sensors, because Blad would be much more comfortable with an European source.

1 upvote
wildbild
By wildbild (Sep 18, 2012)

to state that clearly: I said that fuji is developing their own sensors. r&d!

And yeah I'm smoking the sony sh_t 'cause it's so smokin' hot dude!

0 upvotes
Tom_A
By Tom_A (Sep 18, 2012)

CMOSIS is NOT Sony. It is a Belgian company that designs sensors for various usages. It will be ineresting to compare the picture quality with a Sony of similar resolution.

0 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (Sep 18, 2012)

I think wildbild is talking about Fuji Organic three layered sensor.

0 upvotes
zstan
By zstan (Sep 18, 2012)

They already have. don't need for 5 years.

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/hassleblad-announces-new-5-000-euro-e-mount-camera/

0 upvotes
igorschutz
By igorschutz (Sep 17, 2012)

Will it have an anti-aliasing filter? Hope not.

1 upvote
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 17, 2012)

Unfortunately it is almost guaranteed that there WILL be an AA filter....it's needed to make the video worth using.

0 upvotes
MrPetkus
By MrPetkus (Sep 17, 2012)

The omission of an AA filter was one of the selling points of the M9. It would be a shame if the M has one. I checked the technical PDF from Leica and saw no mention either way.

Can DPR confirm?

1 upvote
GabrielZ
By GabrielZ (Sep 17, 2012)

I'd really like to know if the new M has an AA filter too, I unfortunately suspect that it does.

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Joseph S Wisniewski
By Joseph S Wisniewski (Sep 17, 2012)

@Clint Dunn, you are totally wrong about that. The AA blur needed for video is about 18 microns, while 24mp cameras with AA filters use < 6 microns (4 is typical). A still camera AA does absolutely nothing, which is why companies like Mosaic Engineering make an 18 micron filter that you can slide into the mirror box of a DSLR after locking the mirror up.

http://www.mosaicengineering.com/

Video shot with just the normal AA filter on the D800 is indistinguishable from video shot on the AA filterless D800e.

1 upvote
Joseph S Wisniewski
By Joseph S Wisniewski (Sep 17, 2012)

@GabrielZ why would you "suspect that it does"?

Why would Leica do something that costs more and would alter the "Leica look" that they've had on DMR, M8, M9, and S2?

0 upvotes
Hugo808
By Hugo808 (Sep 17, 2012)

New "M" the D600, my christmas list is getting full already....

3 upvotes
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 17, 2012)

Can't wait for FF Nex + M mount adapter.

14 upvotes
Total comments: 357
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