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Just Posted: Hands-on Canon EOS 6D preview

By dpreview staff on Sep 17, 2012 at 08:00 GMT
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Just Posted: Our hands-on preview of Canon's enthusiast-grade full frame DSLR, the EOS 6D. The 6D features a newly-developed 20.2MP CMOS sensor and a magnesium alloy body. To distinguish it from the more expensive 5D Mark III, the 6D features a simpler, 11-point AF system with a single cross-type focus sensor. It also features a smaller, 97% coverage viewfinder. What do these, and a handful of other, omissions mean for the 6D and how to it match up to Nikon's D600? Read our hands-on preview to find out.

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Comments

Total comments: 590
1234
JimSab
By JimSab (Oct 7, 2012)

An interesting note - I vaguely heard a few people having quality issues with their Nikons, or something like they're not built well? I don't know.

But it made me think - sometimes when two competing products have the same price but one has considerably more features... usually means that the one will more features has cut corners elsewhere, like build quality and quality control.

Just a thuogh, I'm not saying it's fact. But in the end, if the Canon is built more like a brick and is less prone to manufacturing faults than the Nikon, then it's clear what the better option would be. For those who have the option to choose one or the other.

I FINALLY got my amazing Sigma 24-70mm lens back, but I hate how it can't focus properly (or isn't calibrated with my camera). I can't WAIT till the 6D fixes this (which I'm hoping it will with its scope of adjustment.
The smaller stockier size of the Sigma makes me still prefer it over the Canon, even if my copy isn't perfect.

0 upvotes
shleed
By shleed (Oct 15, 2012)

All companies are not immune to product variance, even if they use strict quality control. Nikon is just as affected as Canon, and was known at one point as being notorious for having that "grip" problem with it's cameras.

People complain because they expect too much for too little, as they always do. That said, it's also the companies faults for hyping their products to make them look better than they are. However if they didn't, you would not have so many people buying their products! Weird world.

0 upvotes
shleed
By shleed (Oct 6, 2012)

I honestly don't get why people bitch and moan about a camera that not only they don't own, but does not exist at this very moment. What is even more stupid are the people who think their photography career is over because Canon didn't give something that appeals to a few brickwall-shooting gearheads.

I'm going to take the less retarded route and form my opinion AFTER trying it. Until then, I'm going to... take photos!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 28, 2012)

I've said my piece regarding the 6D - most of it negative- lets just hope that the AF system is actually way better than we all expect ( ? ) I'm sure the FF sensor will be fab - and that will be enough together with a lowish price point for Canon to sell loads - meantime Nikon D600 will also sell loads - BUT it will include the features so missing from the 6D. Canon have kinda got us ! Me, I have no spare cash at the moment - but still contend that Canon are confused as to how to tackle Nikon and Sony mid term and are bound to loose their number one spot longer term as new/younger photographers seek photographic features not crap like GPS & Wi-Fi.

1 upvote
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Oct 1, 2012)

Have to disagree Sir. I've been speaking with colleagues and many DSLR users about to start or in their 1st year at collage. The seem to believe that WiFi and GPS is a BIG win factor on the 6D. AF points is a point I agree on though. I just think having so many so tight in the centre as the D600 has is a bit of a shame and I'd turn the 11 points on... As you say we'll have a better idea when there out in the market.

0 upvotes
Richard Collier
By Richard Collier (Sep 27, 2012)

What the person who wrote the preview for the Canon 6D does not seem to realize is that utilizing the Wi-Fi facility is an absolute essential in a Studio setting. It saves an enormous amount of time, viewing shots on a monitor is almost instantaneous !
I'm slightly outraged that Ive spent $3500 on the Mark lll plus I have had to fork out another $1000 for Canon's WFT-E7...My Mark ll plus WFT-E4 still does a brilliant job because you don't need the fancy Auto focus setup for Studio work
I actually feel short changed by Canon !

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
JimSab
By JimSab (Sep 25, 2012)

I saw the Nikon in a store today next to the D800 (couldn't be bothered handling it though). My GOD it is TINY in comparison! For a Full Frame anyway. I handled the 60D which was on a stand thing, to which I'd previously done a photoshop comparison for a size idea and the 6D isn't much different.... I'm damn excited to get it one it's released, I just hope I have enough money by then to buy it straight away!

I'm ignoring its shortcomings, I played with the 7D and the extra focus points don't make a difference for me. Nifty but not necessary at this point in time.

I can't wait!

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Sep 24, 2012)

if full frame - then the new Nikon D600 - no compromises ;)

1 upvote
montygm
By montygm (Sep 24, 2012)

It will be indeed very interesting to see how this camera goes in the sales figures and consumer feedback once released on the market. Reading all these reviews it has received an absolutely overwhelming amount of comments...some good and others mostly not too impressed with it's features. No other camera apart from that new Hasselblad Lunar has received such a heated debate. Just wonder if any of Canon's people ever read any of these reviews. It seems to fall slightly short on features for the more serious enthusiast photographer but will probably have more appeal to the entry level novice wanting to go FF. Time will tell.
Cheers,

0 upvotes
hiipolarbear
By hiipolarbear (Sep 24, 2012)

TQ Sergey Borachev for sharing the link
http://mansurovs.com/nikon-d600-vs-canon-6d

This brief "on paper comparison" sums up well for the reaction of some Canon users like me in how should i move on my business since Canon might not care about me anymore.

Why would I say so? to be honest, I'm a videographer and invested about USD30k on Canon products since the birth of 5D2. After a long 3 years wait, Canon disappoints me (don't yell, it was video make 5DII a big hit, not the photo).

With all the marketing praise of C300, 1D4, 5D3, C500, C100, EOS-M, EOS-C... sometime walking on the moon, sometime monkey circle show, then now 6D, it is enough. Canon, I will move on. even I have get used to the workflow tolerated for 5D2, even Canon lenses aren't friendly to other mounts.

I'm not mourning or negative on Canon, after all, it is just a tool, but human scares of change, scares of intro N-, S- or P- cam into C-workflow, scares of rip off old investment. Goodbye Canon, I move on.

2 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (Sep 25, 2012)

Bravo, as long as you do not consider the 5DII also a big hit for the photo quality, no more comments and no worries - you will be fine elsewhere. Cheers! :)

0 upvotes
Donnie G
By Donnie G (Sep 21, 2012)

While I admit to having been entertained by all the nitpicking done by the camera spec sheet engineers here about a camera that isn't even in stores yet, and therefore, isn't available for real world evaluation by end users or product lab testers, I also have to admit to not knowing what all the fuss is about. It just seems to me that if you feel that the Canon 6D has a feature set that meets your needs, then you will start saving up to buy one, as I'm doing. On the other hand, if you feel strongly that another brand, such as the excellent Nikon D600, fits your needs better, then you should be saving up to buy it, or some other camera that fits you fancy, instead of beating each other up about the head and shoulders over design decisions made by design and engineering professionals who have proven time and again that they know a whole lot more about camera design and economics than any of us who posts here. It's all about choices, isn't it? So choose! :)

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
and all that jazz
By and all that jazz (Sep 22, 2012)

Canon fan using a EOS 5 (.35mm film format with USM-EF Lens) looking to change to DSLR.
the problem is the nikon 600D spec is way more better on paper, and than the canon 6D i.e looking to change to a canon 6D means putting up with a very closely priced nikon D600. Admittedly, probably best to wait for actual reviews by dpreview and other evaluations etc.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Donnie G
By Donnie G (Sep 22, 2012)

@and all that jazz,

Buying a DSLR and maybe one new lens to go with it is an expensive investment for most of us no matter whether we're buying a $600 body or a $6,000 body. One thing is certain though, and that is as the cost of the camera body increases, so too does the cost of lenses and other accessaries to support that body. So if you are seriously thinking of buying a $2,100 camera body like a Canon 6D, then you also need to be considering the purchase of an L series lens if you want to get the maximum image quality that the camera is capable of producing for you. As far as specs go, ask yourself, are you planning on using this new camera any differently than you did your EOS 5 film camera? What features does your EOS 5 have that this camera doesn't have? What features are must haves for your intended use? Then consider your options and budget and make your choice. It really is that simple. Good luck to you.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Jere Keskiaho
By Jere Keskiaho (Sep 21, 2012)

Just what you expect from Canon. Their line has always been set up in a way that all the features are in the 1D series and maybe light version of the features are in entry level cameras, but middle models get nothing. This 6D does not surprise me in that department. It just gives one more option for one point AF full frame, like used 5D1, 5D2 & 1DS2, which are cheaper than this. Built in WIFI and GPS just drains the battery. While useful, they are not something that many of older users would want in a camera like this.

AF sensor is a huge disappointment. If i would not own a many L lenses and I would be buying a new system i would definetly go for Nikon D600.

Luckily I'm not in hurry right now to change camera. My 1D3 still works for me very well and if i want a full frame with one point AF, used markets are saturated with used 5D, 5D2, 1DS2 cameras.

3 upvotes
QSMcDraw
By QSMcDraw (Sep 21, 2012)

If a Canon owner is approached by an enthusiastic beginner at this point, and the Canon owner is being honest, can we really say Canon is the best place to invest in a body and a few lenses? Why wouldn't we point out the obvious advantages of the comparatively splendid upgrade options being offered by Nikon?

Just think how many photog teachers who might be Canon shooters now have to say, "I can't really recommend Canon anymore; Nikon has too many great options." Same goes for camera club members, wedding photographers approached during a break, etc.

Canon didn't just disappoint its current trapped customers; it lost a lot of good will and word of mouth so important in this industry.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 22, 2012)

Sure. They disappointed the people who bother about specifications more. And they did't give anything exciting for the rest of the people.

Let's wait and see if they disappoint in the IQ and usage(ergonomics) also.

0 upvotes
Dave Shaver
By Dave Shaver (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm not a spec-sheet bigot. I deeply agree with your real world view of the challenge of recommending Canon to someone seeking an upgrade. I faced this very challenge last month; buyer went with Nikon.

I'm so deep in Canon it is hard to extract; fast glass is just so expensive. Worth more than my car these days. :)

0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 28, 2012)

The thing is that even if i'm sure that a camera from canon will be more than enough for that person, that person will say that he could have bought a nikon or sony naming some features that person may use never.

0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 21, 2012)

Nikon D600 down to £1775 already - kinda makes £1800 for an under speced Canon 6D seem expensive for some reason. And its on sale TODAY.

2 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (Sep 25, 2012)

Then you should buy one D600 - NOW! Cheers! :)

0 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (Sep 21, 2012)

Just got the price (VAT included) from a local retailer: 2020 EUR (with 40 f/2.8 STM included). Not "that bad" for one that might consider it as "my first FF kit". Cheers! :)

0 upvotes
Ed Richer
By Ed Richer (Sep 21, 2012)

Well, think of it as a FF Rebel. Then it is a wonderful camera! If the price is too high and it does not sell well Canon will reduce it. If it sells well it means that the price was right.
By the way your current camera is still taking the same wonderful pictures as last week.
I own an "old" 7D and it still works 3 years after I purchases it. Go figure!
It seems that a lot of people suffer from the iPhone upgrade mania.
Repeat after me: " I do NOT need to change my camera every time Canon releases a new model"

1 upvote
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (Sep 20, 2012)

Although not very professional from my side (apologies to dpreview team) please check this out: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1150348. If you have similar experiences or very different ones "hands-on", please share these. Cheers! :)

0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 22, 2012)

That's a pre release prototype most probably. The real thing may be different. better or worse. Waiting for some reviews

0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 20, 2012)

Many peple are complaining here that 6D is even lower speced than a 7D. Yes. it is. In fact, the only camera a 7D owner may want to upgrade to (in canon lineup) without missing on anything is the 1D-x.

7D is their flagship APS-C. Whatever it is, it's a flagship still. Even after years after the launch, it's still attractive if you look for what you need (not what you want).

While 6D is the cheapest Full frame in canon lineup. It is an entry level model. Do not compare it with the flagship.

Only thing 6D will do better than 7D is low light pics. And the insignificant 2MP added to it.

1 upvote
Canoman21
By Canoman21 (Sep 20, 2012)

It'll be better resolution and be better in low light. I didn't think the 7d was all that good when the 60 had basically the same sensor.
THE 7d might shoot at a faster FPS rate but that's a snatches difference.
the image quality will blow you away

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (Sep 20, 2012)

there is no way any 7D user can upgrade to any Canon camera other than 1DX that none of them can shoot as fast. the 6 fps of 5D3 is way too slow for sports.

Comment edited 20 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
JimSab
By JimSab (Sep 21, 2012)

Now THIS is an excellent observation. I forgot that difference between flasgship and entry level...

It's like saying "Oh, the Olympus OM-D has more features than the Canon 650D for a similar price".... but the OM-D is practically that type of camera's flagship whilst the 650D is basically the entry level option... with better low light in comparison.

I kinda think that its "only" 11 focus points may work better than Nikons 39, so long as the centre point is amazing as they say it will be.

I cannot WAIT to get my hands on the 6D regardless, SD card is fantastic for me, I never liked CF, and everything else ever in it... I only read these comments because I want to read everything about it, I'm being really impatient for a review to confirm how awesome it is...

0 upvotes
and all that jazz
By and all that jazz (Sep 22, 2012)

It would`ve been easy for Canon to make an awesome all round semi-professional camera by just adding a FF sensor onto the 7D and calling it the 6D, what do you reckon ??
I think a lot of people with Canon gear would have been a lot happier then they are now i.e the new canon 6D
YEAH RIGHT !!!

1 upvote
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 22, 2012)

"It would`ve been easy for Canon to make an awesome all round semi-professional camera by just adding a FF sensor onto the 7D and calling it the 6D, what do you reckon ?"

It'd have been nice to have such a camera. But taking 8fps to full frame level will cost a lot more. And when you say a 6fps will be enough,.... we have 5Dmkiii :D

I wish they had given a 5Dmkiii with sensor of mkii and some 30 or 40 focus points so that you all would have been happy. Ask yourself. would you be happy??? no you'd still complain.

As for me, i wont ever buy this camera. Not because it is bad. Just because, i dont want it.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Sep 25, 2012)

"It's like saying "Oh, the Olympus OM-D has more features than the Canon 650D for a similar price".... but the OM-D is practically that type of camera's flagship whilst the 650D is basically the entry level option... with better low light in comparison."

In fact E-M5 has better low light than any Canon APS-C. See DPR comparison widget. Canon's 18 mpix APS-C is not up to modern standards.

0 upvotes
TakisL
By TakisL (Oct 4, 2012)

APS-C sensor is crusial to them who are taking wildlife and sports photos and most of them use Canon 7D. So stop saying to replace it with full frame

0 upvotes
Aleksandr Pishchik
By Aleksandr Pishchik (Sep 20, 2012)

Canon should have "slightly" revised 7D with full frame sensor and GPS. One convenient feature that, in my humbly opinion is missing, on all full frame Canons and available on Nikon is ability to switch on crop factor. One camera can be used for landscaping and birding by a switch. I have 5D original, 7D, and a few L lenses otherwise I would consider Nikon 800 serious. Actually I am staying for now with what I have. Anyway, it is a person behind the camera that produces a picture and camera is merely a tool.

1 upvote
montygm
By montygm (Sep 20, 2012)

My sentiments exactly regarding the 7D with a full frame sensor. That was what I thought they would have done or say "should" have done. A higher end version with full frame of the popular 7D.
That I would have bought regardless of price.

1 upvote
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 20, 2012)

My request with the 7D is to have more bracketing. It currently supports only 3. 5 or 7 would have been so nice

1 upvote
dnral
By dnral (Sep 20, 2012)

It is called the 1DX. Or maybe the 5DIII. By making the 7D full frame with the higher fps you will have a camera priced between their 1DX and 5DIII. That puts the price around $5,000.

David

1 upvote
montygm
By montygm (Sep 20, 2012)

Hi David,
I do realise that the specs can't be too high as to damage 5d3 sales. If however they made the body material more like the entry level cameras and maybe tweeked the movie quality so it does not compete too much with the 5d they could have had more of a serious camera to fit in between that 7d and 5d slot. Most pros buy the 5d as it is a robust build quality camera for work and it is aimed at high end movie quality and for it's low light capabilities to name just a few. There are ways of keeping the costs down without completely stripping too much of the specs. This camera as it is is almost at an entry level beginners camera with just a larger sensor.
Cheers,

0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 21, 2012)

Sure that Canon will upgrade the 7D massively - areas such as AF with video, improved rear screen, two card slots and perhaps (fingers crossed) RADIO wireless flash control. However this will confuse the FF v's APS-C market still further. It appears to me that all of the innovation by Canon is going into APS-C to try to hold the fort - clearly Canon have lost massive market share here already - as a Canon owner I find the Nikon D7000 spec much more to my liking that the current 7D with its suspect AF and (compared to the D7000) poor high ISO. As a Canon owner I am already starting to feel that the battle been lost - Canon are in decline, Nikon are on a roll. I'm old enough to remember when Canon took over as Number 1 from Nikon (mid 1980's) and it's happening again but in reserve. It'll take a few more years - but mark my words. Whoever felt the 6D was good enough for £1800 should be matched out of their HQ's today !! A whole new generation of camera users are going for Nikon 1st.

0 upvotes
JimSab
By JimSab (Sep 19, 2012)

I've followed DP Review for 6 years now (I'm 21 btw) and nothing has sparked my interest more.

I've come to the conclusion that the 6D was stripped of certain features to keep the size down - there used to be a time when the 5D (I bought it second hand 2.5 years ago for AU$1500) was the smallest they could go, but now they've created something smaller. I never personally warmed to the bulk and weight of the 5D.

I'm no doubt aiming to spend the next 6 months saving for it, because it has everything I need, my only problem with the 5D has been the lack of Micro Focus Adjustment - which the 6D has, and doesn't cost $3700 (I won't settle for the 4 year old MKII). My 24-70 had IRRITATING focus issues.

Also, I only need one focus point, I never trust the 50,000 points any camera could have, it will always focus on the closest subject. Not useful for me. -3EV is however a god send for my light painting photography.

Now, STOP COMPLAINING, GO OUT AND TAKE MORE PICTURES! ALL OF YOU.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
8 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 19, 2012)

If you're happy with such a camera, and think it offers a good value relative to the competition, knock yourself out. But other commenters on the 6D are not "complaining", they are doing exactly what you did: voicing THEIR opinions.

Personally, I'd never buy a camera at this level that didn't offer a 100% Pentaprism VF. When the 7D and D7000, which are much lower in their respective line-ups offer full VF coverage, why would anyone settle for such a head-scratching cost-cutting move by Canon?

Similarly, the 7D has 19 cross-type AF sensors. That the 6D has only one may satisfy you, but those pointing out this disparity, again, are not complaining, just being honest, and not rationalizing an underspecified camera.

9 upvotes
JimSab
By JimSab (Sep 20, 2012)

Touche good sir!

Mind you, full frame is generally good for landscape and portrait work - which don't generally require extreme speed or heaps of focus points.

Full Frame sensors cost quite a lot of money, but I can't really make sense of that when Nikon have their camera out with its slightly better specs.

Oh well, I'm just really excited for this camera as it's got everything I'll ever need for a good few years (hopefully several years). And peoples opinions just make me realise how much they're interested in camera features than the fact that FF at such a price is unbelievably fantastic - it gives a different kind of quality image.

Maybe Canon had their reasons.... if their new 20mp sensor was a large investment for them, and is considerably better quality than Nikons choosing of the Sony sensor, then it's probably why the Canon wont cost much less than the Nikon despite the lack of features.

I still can't help but feel Canon is the Apple brand in the camera world.

0 upvotes
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 20, 2012)

Well said JimSab. Be careful of the Nikon Fan Boys and the uneducated. They only get excited about paper spec and very rarely of being an actual photographer. Even when spec for price is great like the D600 and 6D they will find something to complain about... Oh excuse me comment and make an opinion on. True photographers use to complain the SLR's were making everyone a good photographer, now the technology from brands are leaping ahead they will complain there's not enough spec. Gotta love DPR commentators, me included.LOL!!!

0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 21, 2012)

Sorry as a 'loyal' Canon user I have to disagree - reserve the picture - if you were a Nikon owner why would you want to switch to the 6D? A slightly lighter body, perhaps a slightly higher screen res - that's all. Now reserve it again if you were seeking to go FF what would attract you about the Nikon D600 - for me - almost everything ! Sorry Canon the 6D is 3rd rate for the money. You deserve all the stick your getting. I'm planning to use up my Canon gear whilst saving for a Nikon and begin again.

2 upvotes
JimSab
By JimSab (Sep 21, 2012)

Haha! a rather interesting thing BP

SJ - I've probably been over-cynical of everyone on these posts, and probably a bit harsh. Everyones opinion is valid, it's just interesting that certain features could be so important, back in the day everyone had manual focus and survived.
We'll have to wait till the reviews come out for both cameras, as they might perform just as well as each other in all aspects, despite their differences (with Nikons only advantage being dual SD and popup flash that would be pointless anyway as it generally gives terrible results).
But I don't think it's worth the money loss to switch systems - you might as well do some maths, and see if overall the 5DmkIII might be an option - depending on what features you're missing on the 6D.

I look forward to seeing how both cameras perform! But regardless, I'm getting the 6D and I can't wait!

0 upvotes
dnral
By dnral (Sep 19, 2012)

Sad Joe:

I feel sorry for you. Canon should have picked you up in a Limo and taken you to the Photokino show for its unveiling. You should have also been given a gift bag with all of the new cameras.

It's not too late to write an angry letter to Canon letting them know exactly how you feel.

I do feel sorry for you and all the others here that whine and bemoan all the shortcomings of a product that you know absolutely nothing about.

I did not know, like the many, that you had been awaiting a decent ff body with the bargain price tag. Try Craig's List.

Sadly Joe, I am not venting my frustration directly at you, as you are to Canon, I just think you really are a sad person.

Please, don't be afraid to ask for help. There is no reason to go through life as Sad Joe:)

Your new friend,

David

1 upvote
Canoman21
By Canoman21 (Sep 20, 2012)

Canon should buy him something simple like a Fuji finepix - something he does not have to use his' one and only brain cell' to operate

0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 21, 2012)

LOL! Thanks David !!

0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 19, 2012)

Had 24 hours to consider my feelings towards the 6D (as many will know I've been awaiting a decent FF body without a massive price tag for ages) and it strikes me that the 6D should/ will be cheap when it reaches the market - Canon have dug up bits from their parts bin - so costs are low, there is NOTHING innovative or expensive to manufacture here - BUT in doing so they have pi**ed off Canon fans like me - we want more for our money (check out the Nikon D600 spec - just a hint Canon) and when the price begins to fall it'll pi** off even more as it will confirm that this Woolworth's camera was light on spec and at £1800 far too expensive. I hate to say this as a proud Canon owner - if I were able to start over I'd go Nikon, the rot set in with the 50D (poor high ISO) then the 7D (complex, suspect AF) now the 6D (hit out of the park by the Nikon D600) - where has the creative passion and drive gone Canon?

5 upvotes
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 19, 2012)

Please move from Canon to Nikon then and shut up moaning. That's why there are different brands and different spec.

3 upvotes
Great British Landscapes
By Great British Landscapes (Sep 19, 2012)

I agree Joe, it's plain crap...

4 upvotes
Canoman21
By Canoman21 (Sep 20, 2012)

you are an idiot

0 upvotes
Pritzl
By Pritzl (Sep 20, 2012)

I don't understand why this community is so aggressive?

If you don't like Joe's post just ignore it. He is entitled to voice his displeasure and from what I read he did not overstep any bounds.

When did this become a "positive comments only" forum?

8 upvotes
QSMcDraw
By QSMcDraw (Sep 21, 2012)

Since employees and shareholders of one company or another started posting here--like everywhere on the Web!

0 upvotes
das7282
By das7282 (Sep 19, 2012)

Is it just me or does the 6D seem like a 7D downgrade with the only thing really better being the full-frame sensor? As for the WiFi? GPS? Don't want it, don't care.

6 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 19, 2012)

Its a massive massive disappointment - I long to go FF but am not a fool, I have to work hard for each and every penny, so when I spend my money I have to consider carefully - it seems that Canon doesn't think like this anymore and are becoming also rans - being lazy and introducing second rate products is how Nikon lost their number 1 spot - Canon have begun this slide and the 6D is simply the latest example of a company taking the pi** - for £200* more the Nikon D600 is such a better camera, better AF, faster FPS, greater MP, headphone socket, lens control, two card slots, more coverage via VF, wireless flash control, built in flash, uncompressed HDMI video fed - do I need to go on?

If I were able to change over I'd go Nikon - and you have no idea how much it pains me to say that !!!!

* I think the price will settle down in a few weeks so there is NO difference in price - making the Nikon D600 an even bigger bargain.

9 upvotes
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Sep 19, 2012)

it is interesting to note just how emotional and irrational we are about cameras. Surely (unless you have an investment in their FF lenses, which I'm assuming you don't) the least important specification of any camera is the lettering on the front of the pentaprism housing.

You are basically saying that it would cause you immense pain to buy the camera whose technical spec and price is the one you actually want.

You imply that you are somehow not "able" to go over to Nikon, but if this would be your first FF camera then why ever not - or did you already buy a stock of Canon FF lenses in anticipation?

Comment edited 59 seconds after posting
1 upvote
and all that jazz
By and all that jazz (Sep 19, 2012)

canon should have kept the same spec as the 7D but changed the sensor to full-frame now that would have been a good camera

6 upvotes
Paulmeister
By Paulmeister (Sep 20, 2012)

wetsleet, if I were a Canon shooter and they released this camera, I would be just as annoyed as Joe. I shoot a Nikon D7k and am considering the D600, but wanted to check out what Canon is doing. This camera seems to be taking both a few steps forward and as many or more back, which suggests to me that Canon is really thinking of this as more of a consumer-grade Full Frame, whereas the Nikon D600 is spec'd much more closely to it's professional siblings, aside from sharing the D7k's 39 point AF, which, though still a very good AF system, I'd have liked to have 51 points.

1 upvote
Paulmeister
By Paulmeister (Sep 20, 2012)

wetsleet, if I were a Canon shooter and they released this camera, I would be just as annoyed as Joe. This camera seems to take steps both forward and backward and seems very much marketed toward consumers vs. professionals. The Nikon D600 sits right up with the professional models, much more so than the 6D. This is probably what really annoys Canon (professional) users and I can definitely see how.
(the time limit on edits is really stupid)

1 upvote
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Sep 20, 2012)

Paulmeister - you make my point for me in your use of the term "Canon shooter". Surely we are all 'photographers', no?

I can understand a degree of brand allegiance, but not to the point where we are defined by the brand. The brand should be on the product, not tattooed behind your ear!

I would be annoyed if I was locked in through my existing arsenal of FF lenses etc, but if not then I would rejoice in the choices available to me.

0 upvotes
das7282
By das7282 (Sep 25, 2012)

wetsleet ~ I have enough invested in Canon lenses and flashes that it would be impractical for me to switch. I could not afford the time or expense to sell everything and switch over to another brand. So as a Canon 7D owner wishing to switch to a full frame camera (someday), I am very disappointed that my only options now are a $3,500 Canon 5D MIII that I can't afford or a Canon 6D that is inferior to my 7D in almost every way other than it's sensor (same goes for the 5D MII). I guess I'll just keep shooting with my 7D until Canon comes to their senses. :/

0 upvotes
George Veltchev
By George Veltchev (Sep 19, 2012)

Hey folks , see my gallery here: http://www.treknature.com/members/mwmod99/ .... most of the images there has been shot with the central focusing point activated only ..... in 95% of the cases, my Canon 5D MarkII has been very accurate, so based on my personal experience I think that even the simplified auto-focus of the new 6D should be even better than than my old 5D MarkII.

3 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 19, 2012)

The point is that we all know that Canon can produce better AF systems - so why do I have to use the central spot to try to gain sharp images - if this were a Nikon D7000 (half the price of a 6D) I wouldn't have to, its the same for ALL Nikon FF cameras - WAY BETTER AF - I went Canon because they had better AF and better high ISO - now its clear that Canon has been overtaken and shows no signs that their senior management team has a clue how to react. So disappointing it hurts.

The 6D is not the answer - my prediction - Canon will drop the price in a few months by £200 - £400 to try to buy Canon APS-C up graders. My advice - look at the bigger picture folks - Nikon is on a roll, Canon is in decline.

3 upvotes
George Veltchev
By George Veltchev (Sep 19, 2012)

The latest sales figures suggest the opposite Sad Joe...do not forget that Canon 5D MarkIII won the prestigious EISA award in the category European Advanced SLR Camera, the little G1X ...the best European Compact Camera and won the TIPA's best expert compact camera. In the same time Canon EOS 1D -X become the Best Digital SLR Professional according to TIPA .... is Canon in decline indeed ?!

3 upvotes
and all that jazz
By and all that jazz (Sep 19, 2012)

you are not comparing apples with apples i.e money wise

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
sandy b
By sandy b (Sep 21, 2012)

Nikons won just as many awards. Google EISA awards. And i would bet money the D600 will too.

2 upvotes
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Sep 19, 2012)

Look at this comparison of the 6D and the D600. It is not funny!

http://mansurovs.com/nikon-d600-vs-canon-6d

7 upvotes
balico
By balico (Sep 20, 2012)

Yep not funny at all.. Also the D600 was recently tested by DXO and had a 2,5 stop advantage in dynamic range over the 5DIII..

GPS and WiFi are nice added features on the 6D, but not including a built in flash on a consumer level camera is unbelievable to me.

3 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 21, 2012)

Hi Sargey

I'm getting a lot of stick ( ! ) from my fellow Canon owners who fail to see or don't wish to see the true. Some have told me to shut up and stop moaning about the 6D - their failing to see the bigger picture - someone, someone real senior at Canon Japan felt that the 6D was good enough - this is NOT the attitude of a World leading brand. Yes - Canon can innovate - Yes the 5D£ is fantastic - I've used one at a wedding (sadly had to hand it back) Yes - Canon wins lots of awards but for little guys like me it feels that Canon has stuffed me and expects me to smile while they do it. One last prediction - the D600 will wipe the floor when it comes to industry wards and the 6D ...? ... nothing.

1 upvote
and all that jazz
By and all that jazz (Sep 22, 2012)

I reckon you`re right on track there sad joe, very disappointing. I also am a Canon user and looks like I`ll be changing to Nikon or shelling out for a Canon 5D MK11.
The thing is Nikon appear to be way ahead on all there cameras when comparing like for models & money for money.
I believe Nikons been ahead of the pack for approx at least 6 years, when taking the into account.

0 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (Sep 18, 2012)

At 1800 USD, this will be a nice camera, with AF (if proven that is "limited") as an "oddity". Thing is, the difference between this and the 5DIII is big. And I spent my last 3 months examining the pros and cons of the 5DIII: guess what - Canon did it right with that one, no matter what Nikon or any other brand fans might say. The price is high, but let's wait a bit - maybe the 6D will help here. Now, regarding Canon marketing fluff: I always believed that weather sealing on any model except 1D series was just fluff, and that Nikon was indeed the soviet tank in the room. I was wrong. Last Friday, on a mountain trip, I have experienced my worst sudden Autumn rain so far (thick, like a water curtain). The 7D and the attached 24-70 f/2.8 Mk I experienced 4 Km (on foot) under this rain. In the camp the 7D was pouring water. Both camera and lens survived. Folks, this is for real. And I am still not believe it. Canon, tough?! Cheers! :)

3 upvotes
Rawmeister
By Rawmeister (Sep 22, 2012)

Lemmee get this straight...
You walked for 4 kilometers in thick pouring rain and didnt put your 7D in a bag or at least put it under your jacket or anything? You just allowed it to be rained on full blast for an extended period of time. OK - so are you nuts or what?
How can you expect us to take you seriously?

0 upvotes
Zerg2905
By Zerg2905 (Sep 25, 2012)

Because, my good Sir, the jacket I borrowed was given back to a lady... This is what you should do in similar circumstances - protect humans first. Btw, not only the 7D was pouring water, I was pouring water too... Moreover: YOU MUST KNOW THE LIMITS OF YOUR EQUIPMENT. AND, TO ME, THIS WAS THE BEST TEST EVER!!! Even if I realized that I did a somewhat stupid thing with potential (disastrous) financial consequences... I am not nuts. I have learned something. I also own a 5DII and i will never try this with that camera (I have a gut feeling that it will not survive), and I also own an EOS 3 and I will give it a try... We'll see... I am also very tempted now to buy a 1DX to see what the monster is capable of... Cheers! :)

0 upvotes
fdfgdfgdgf
By fdfgdfgdgf (Sep 18, 2012)

A Phone as a remote LCD monitor?

"You can use your smartphone for remote camera control and operation (with the EOS Remote app),"

Does it possible?

0 upvotes
guermanp
By guermanp (Sep 18, 2012)

it's not new - if you're on Android bandwagon - just search DSLR controller in Play Store

0 upvotes
fdfgdfgdgf
By fdfgdfgdgf (Sep 18, 2012)

Its the only EOS camera with WI-FI
why the complains about missing Articulating screen then?

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
guermanp
By guermanp (Sep 18, 2012)

Articulating screen right on the body is much more convenient in the field. Remote controller and remote screen on smartphone or dedicated LCD is good for studio/tripod/video with rigs...

0 upvotes
fdfgdfgdgf
By fdfgdfgdgf (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks, this is a Brilliant move by canon, i am sure it will be an accessory to attach the phone to the body

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 54 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

@fd...: If the camera has an articulating screen, I don't need to buy an android phone, is not it? or Is the android phone included in the box? How much a android phone cost?

0 upvotes
fdfgdfgdgf
By fdfgdfgdgf (Sep 18, 2012)

Anyone in this universe don't have android or Iphone?
Do you use a 40dollar 7 years old phone and you are looking for state of te art 2K dslr body?

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

So, you think everyone in this universe has a android or iphone? and other phone (non-smart phone) does not exist now, LOL?

If someone want to buy a DSLR, he must have an android phone also? What an assumptions? Probably, you are a gadget lover, not photographer!

0 upvotes
fdfgdfgdgf
By fdfgdfgdgf (Sep 18, 2012)

Really? My latest movie.
https://vimeo.com/47599146

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

@AP7 - as of this month, there are currently 1.3 *million* Android activations per *day*! Yes, that's per *day*!!!

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-android-activations-per-day-2012-9

And obviously, there are millions of iPhones out there, too. If you don't have either an Android or iOS phone, you're living in a cave and probably won't be buying a 6D anyways! LOL. So given the statistics regarding the prevalence of smart phones, yes I think it's a safe *assumption* that a potential 6D (or any other DSLR) buyer probably already has a smart phone, or will have a smart phone very soon.

And yes, a lot of photographers these days are also gadget lovers, too! LOL.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Katie Piecrust
By Katie Piecrust (Sep 19, 2012)

How many people actually need everything todays smart phones do? If all one needs is a portable telephone, why constantly upgrade if what you already have works perfectly fine? Same goes for most of the stuff we all buy, including cameras. We tend to confuse our desires with actual needs and it's not easy to unlearn this behavior because it's how we've been raised, especially those of us in first world countries who've been blasted by constant advertising since birth practically. It took me a long time to realize money and possessions can't buy happiness. A lot of folks never manage to learn this and is why so many are deep in debt. I don't buy anything anymore unless it's something I actually need, and I'm a whole lot richer for it. I just let my money accumulate now, a good thing because it means I'll be ready should a sudden emergency ever arise. I also generate a lot less garbage which is good for our environment.

2 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

Canon 6D may use the same shutter as Rebel series. Although the shutter in rebel camera can support 1/200 sec flash sync, in 6D it can only support 1/180sec due to longer travel (as the sensor is bigger).

0 upvotes
Katie Piecrust
By Katie Piecrust (Sep 18, 2012)

My feelings about the 1/180 flash sync and 1/4000 max shutter speed is that they are artificial limitations by Canon in order to prevent it from hurting 5DIII sales. Otherwise it's just plain odd when compared to, well, their entire DSLR line just about. I can see them releasing a firmware patch down the road that removes these limits when they're no longer considered an issue, much like they did with the 7D recently which proves they're willing to do such a thing. If I'm right, and I just as easily may not be, it'll be of much interest to hackers who will enjoy the challenge of removing said limits.

2 upvotes
guermanp
By guermanp (Sep 18, 2012)

May be you're totally right, but it's oddly anyway ))) When they will introduce new FF in the future, it will have 1/125 flash sync, 1/1000 max shutter speed and only manual focus - in order do not hurt 6D sales. Contemporary way of progress :)

1 upvote
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

@Katie: Both 60D and 7D have 1/250sec flash sync speed. Does 60D sales hurt 7D sales.

Also, both T3 (1100D) and T4i/T3i/T2i have 1/200sec flash sync speed. Does T3 hurt T4i/T3i sales? The answer is NO, Canon knows it very well.

Canon actually put full frame sensor with rebel hardware and casing with some improvement. They priced it with Nikon 600D to show that 6D is no less. But, after a month you'll see lots of discount to attract customers. For example, T4i is launched at $1000, you can buy it now for $800 or less ($200 discount within two months).

Canon's strategy is to design inferior product than comparable Nikon product so that they can give a huge discount to attract customers. After all consumers always look for best deal and sale!

0 upvotes
Katie Piecrust
By Katie Piecrust (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't know, do 60D sales hurt 7D sales? Do you know the conclusive answer to that? For all we know could be that it did, and as a result Canon learned from it which is why we're seeing these artificial limitations today. And I really do believe they are artificial, just like limiting auto focus to f/5.6 and wider so consumers are encouraged to buy faster (as in more expensive) lenses. AF at f/8 is perfectly feasible, especially with that -3 EV spec, something else a hacked/updated firmware could probably change.

As far as the Rebels go, they're why I said "just about" in my previous comment. Peculiar is all I was saying, considering it's placement in Canon's entire lineup. It's hard to say what their logic actually is and I doubt we'll ever know for certain. Speculation is pretty much all we mere mortals can do, and it's important to remember that Canon isn't in the photography business. They're in the making money business lol. ;-)

0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

There is something everybody here misses. The opponent to this camera is not the D600. This will not be the first camera for anyone.
The only camera to stand as an opponent to this camera will be a used 5Dm2, as only people who already use canon will be buying this.

Only cameras with very high (uselessly) specifications will make users to jump from one make to another in DSLR market.

4 upvotes
Arkady Ribkin
By Arkady Ribkin (Sep 18, 2012)

I couldn't agree more.

0 upvotes
Dan
By Dan (Sep 18, 2012)

Uh, no. My friend was recently in the market for a new camera, and he was choosing between the D800 and 5D3. He had no previous equipment.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 19, 2012)

@Dan: I was talking about people who take photography seriously. Most of the people who are going to buy a full frame will have had at least a SLR camera in the past.
Even if someone is buying these cameras as their first SLRs, it doesn't make sense by just comparing the two bodies to each other. The lenses and accesories available to that system of camera matters most. Maybe, even more than the camera in some peoples cases.

3 upvotes
Paulmeister
By Paulmeister (Sep 20, 2012)

I agree, the price puts it out of convenient reach of many casual users and it lacks too much for professionals to take it seriously. Who is going to buy this? Maybe college students with money to burn on their digital photo classes? Maybe the odd prosumer who settles for a poor man's 5DmkIII?

0 upvotes
Lea5
By Lea5 (Sep 18, 2012)

According to DPRreview: "At Photokina the EOS 6D is star of the show, despite the rather muted reception it has received." Sounds good.

3 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

Its because people are looking for an enthusiast FF DSLR for long time. Although they are disappointed, they are lining up to see it.

0 upvotes
Canoman21
By Canoman21 (Sep 18, 2012)

The 6 D was designed to be enthusiast level Full Frame.
I upgraded from the 40 D to the 60 D. I could've got the 7D for a little extra but was pleased with the spec of the 60.It takes some great pictures.
I will be getting the 6D as it will give me, at last, full frame image capture
It's all down to budget and taste and more importantly it is down to the operator looking through the glass composing the picture.
My very first camera some 30 years ago was a cheap Zenith 35 mm. That had no auto focus the metering was a needle + /- and that was it.
When Canon released the EOS 35mm cameras in the late 80's it was a dream come true. I got me a EOS 600 and still have it Canon are on to a winner as those who aspire to a 5D3 will look at the price and compare the basics. The 6D offers full frame at a cheaper cost.The auto focus will work just fine and to those whingers complaining about the 11 point AF - just use manual focus. it gives your eye the chance to govern the picture not a processor!

2 upvotes
guermanp
By guermanp (Sep 18, 2012)

I also started to photograph many yearts ago with rangefinders and afterwhile with Zenit SLR. So 20 years of tech progress brougt us to manual focus again??? Definitely impossible to photograph even a small children with help from this Canon's "11 point AF..." - at least with my 60D and "the best lens for crop EF 17-55".

1 upvote
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

Well said young man :)

0 upvotes
Dan
By Dan (Sep 18, 2012)

So Canonman21, what do you think it's like to manually focus on a screen that's not designed for manual focus?

0 upvotes
Canoman21
By Canoman21 (Sep 19, 2012)

You obviously dont get it. If you want all the bells and whistles buy a 5 D3. Just wait and see if the auto focus will work - or not. The Samyang/ Optika lenses are manual focus but are impressive bits of glass for the money. I have mostly EF lenses as the crop factor on the 60D gives us more magnification but when composingin I'll always use the centre focus point anyway.
I dont think it has brought us back to manual focus but you always have that option.Auto focus has just made us lazy. If you cant take a decent picture with you in control than but a compact. And if you dont like the 6D spec's then dont buy it.

0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 19, 2012)

There are many lens makers who doesn''t make AF lenses. Not because they can't. Just because they do not want.
But the case of 6D is different. Someone buying an EOS camera will expect to have good AF unless he is goin to use a carl zeiss or something like that on it.

0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 19, 2012)

Sorry your missing the point - if Nikon can produce a camera - the Nikon D600 which has such a better spec for just £200 for Canon are taking the pi** with their 11 point AF system. There are lots of other things missing which are present on the D600 - for just £200 for its a complete camera. Want to shoot video - want to monitor sound ? Headphone socket - Nikon - YES - Canon - NO Want to shoot subjects off centre - Nikon - 39 points - Canon - 11, want to shoot uncompressed video - Nikon - YES - Canon - no. Should I go on?

Why the hell should I buy a 'state of the art' AF camera and be forced to use manual focus ? If this was a Nikon D600 or ANY of their cameras I would not have too. Canon AF systems are simply out of date - unless I have £3K to spend - not.

So so disappointed - felt that the long awaited mid priced FF camera from Canon would be my next camera - but I refuse to spend £1800 on a second rate camera and I suspect may other 'whingers' will feel the same.

1 upvote
dnral
By dnral (Sep 18, 2012)

Grace:

It's not really the point. The system as a whole is the point. Low light and great lenses-did you watch the entire video? The interesting part is the making of the video. I do not use the video either, I do like the low light image taking, and now at full frame.

I have a 5d3 and have no interest in buying the 6D, but I did preorder the EOS M.

David

1 upvote
dnral
By dnral (Sep 18, 2012)

For all the naysaying, glass half empty I really hate this camera folks, take the time to watch this video:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3043

Maybe you will feel differently.

David

0 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi David,
Nice movie clip, beautifully filmed without a doubt.
However personally myself I am not really interested in doing movies on any SLR. I know the Mark III and 7D were very popular cameras with many pro's interested in doing exactly that for weddings and shoots. I suppose it comes down to personal choice and requirements.
Cheers, Grace.

3 upvotes
fdfgdfgdgf
By fdfgdfgdgf (Sep 18, 2012)

Yes
The king of video. Hope video resolution will be true 1080p

0 upvotes
ZEROrhythm
By ZEROrhythm (Sep 18, 2012)

there's not even a head phone jack which is on pretty much all the ff camera on the market right now.

That video said nothing.

Give me a crew of guys and some expensive accessories and great lens and I will show you that it can be done with a cheap rebel camera.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi Steve,
I know the built in flashes that come with SLR"s are not the greatest and their range is very limited but as I mentioned sometimes it comes down to convenience and less baggage to carry. Nikon were quite clever to incorporate this with their FF D800 where as Canon decided against it on their 5D range. This will appeal to a greater range of users that aren't uniquely based exclusively in the "Pro user" category only. Mostly I prefer not having to use flash if I can help it, as it can be very harsh and has unpleasant cold colour to it.But there have been a few moments that "pop up' has come in very handy though. When shooting outside on a bright day to lighten up shadows in eyes sockets for one.
But putting that aside I feel Nikon are listening more to what their customers want than what Canon is lately. They have made a quality camera in the D600 without being afraid like Canon are of losing the high end sales of the 5D MK III. You will see Nikon leading by a miles with this.

2 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

I certainly agree with the value and convenience of having a built-in flash. For a lot of people, it's going to come down to the appeal of having a built-in flash, vs the appeal of having built-in GPS and Wi-fi. Frankly, I'd rather have the built-in GPS and Wi-Fi because it's relatively inexpensive and easy to add a small, compact hotshoe flash.

1 upvote
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

Omission of built-in flash means omission of built-in wireless commander also. This two features are indispensable to any camera for photo.

Sure, you can make your camera unit heavier like 1D X by putting heavy lens and external flash unit, but that is not the design goal of a light weight travel camera. This camera is designed light weight and travel camera in mind.

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

@AP7 - you're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you say that "design goal of a light weight travel camera" isn't to have to carry an external flash unit for things like wireless flash, but on the other hand you whine about not having a built-in wireless commander to do wireless flash with an external flash unit! Sounds like you're just grasping at straws looking for things to complain about, as your many posts here clearly show.

If you don't like the camera, just move along.

0 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 19, 2012)

@T3: If you are too excited, just buy it and shut up. You don't need to influence other people to buy one crap. Everybody will buy with their own money, not yours. So, let others to decide what they want and what they don't want to buy.

You need to see this video to understand the importance of other focus point than center one. See all three part by Rudy Winston from Canon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAx86nblZ2g&feature=plcp

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 19, 2012)

As a Canon owner I have to agree - there is NOTHING about the 6D which makes me want to buy one - Nikon is leading by miles and with the D600 they have an ideal wedding camera. Have seen this coming for a number of years - the D3 and then the D700 began to appear ( I used to be a pro wedding photographer) more and more - the 5D and 5D2 remain popular but the 5D3 (I have only seen one at a wedding so far) is too expensive - I've seen more D800's being used so the trend continues. If I were able I'd switch to Nikon and tell Canon to get stuffed - a very bitter Canon user who feels that the 6D is the minimum camera for maximum money.

Mark my words folks - Nikon is on a roll - Canon is in decline.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Sep 19, 2012)

@AP7 - LOLOLOL. Do you realize what a buffoon you sound like? Of course camera manufacturers want to sell you on focus points. They've led people like you to believe that everyone NEEDS gazillion focus points to do any photography! But the reality is that it's not true. Go look at a Leica S2. It has one focus point. Go look at a Hasselblad H4D. One focus point. Go look at a Leica M10. One focus point. True, skilled photographers have, and still do, take great photos with just a single central focus point! Hahahahah.

0 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 19, 2012)

@T3: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, You at last wake up after 16hours of deep sleep. Stop your stupid comparison. Many top quality Leica, Zeiss, etc. lenses are manual focus only, then why Canon produce AF lens. Better learn how to use off-center focus point to improve your photography. Still you have time to do. Nobody is asking for gazillion focus point.

Try to understand photography is pretty subjective. For example, many people know how to use flash, many people don't. Those who can't always say flash produce unnatural looking photos.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Bill1969
By Bill1969 (Sep 20, 2012)

For wildlife and action shooting, canon still leading, 99% of enthusiast shooters i meet use canon, there is no decline here..

0 upvotes
George Veltchev
By George Veltchev (Sep 18, 2012)

OK ...lets say that the D600 has the upper hand in regards to some specifications, despite the amateurish build in flash and the cheap plastic body. The 6D has to be superior in the Image quality comparison however. As a proud owner of the old Canon 5D MarkII, I personally do not care so much about the type of auto-focusing since I have always use the central focusing point. And lets do not forget the fact that Canon's EF lens lineup is very ...very and I mean very strong indeed, a fact which many people are willing to forget. After all a great lens is a better investment than a camera body which in few months or a year time will be replaced with another.

3 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi George,
The "upper hand" in image quality remains to be seen and tested yet. Both being full frame sensors and both marketed head to head rivals with each other I would be guessing that the quality would not be a huge difference between the two. I am basically amazed at the poor flash sync speed, my 500D syncs better than this, the lack of joystick and other specs that they have cut out on this model.My advise to anyone looking at this is to buy a 5D Mark II, better camera and great price now to buy one. Or wait another three or four months til 6D price goes down as it is over priced for what it has.
Cheers, Grace.

1 upvote
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

People who are buying into this will be EOS XXXD users. Joy things and the such is something they have not used yet. Think about the future photographers and what they want. Touch screen as on the EOS 650D will be the way young photographers now will interact with their Camera. Older photographers will stick with higher end FF as the current MkIII and D800. And as stating it's over priced please!!! This has been the lowest FF camera ever at launch. How can you say it's over priced???

2 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

@George: Using central AF all the time should results in focus inaccuracy for larger aperture, which is specially true for FF sensor. If you insist of using central AF point, then what is the meaning of putting other points?

@BeanyPic: What a theory on pricing? Somebody should give you a novel prize on economics.

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

@AP7 - I'm still shooting with a 5D MKI, and I shoot with the central focus sensor almost exclusively. And I am regularly using fast lenses (35/1.4L, 50/1.4, 85/1.8) at wide open apertures. The results are fine, without "focus inaccuracy". People have been shooting in this manner for decades, even ever since the manual focus film days when the split-prism focus aid only existed in the center of the focusing screen. Also, go look at a Leica M9 rangefinder (or any other Leica FF rangefinder camera), which also only has its focusing aid at the center of the viewfinder! Heck, go look at Leica's S2 medium format DSLR. It only has one central focus point, too! So your claims of "focus inaccuracy" that result from using the center focus point is simply hogwash.

2 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 19, 2012)

@T3: You are living in dark age in cave. You need to modernize yourself. Just wondering, why do you need to answer every post? Look like, you work in Canon? Don't need your biased opinion any more.

You need to see this video to understand the importance of other focus point than center one. See all three part by Rudy Winston from Canon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAx86nblZ2g&feature=plcp

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 19, 2012)

@AP7 - You need to chill out, dude. Cameras with single central focus points are not "in dark age in cave." Go look at the recently updated Leica S2 medium format DSLR. It has one central focus point. Go look at recently introduced Hassy H5D. Or the Leica M rangefinders. Or go look at a PhaseOne 645DF, which has a whopping 3 focus points! All these very serious, and expensive, cameras have just 1-3 focus points.

True skilled photographers have, and still do, take great photos with a single central focus point. It's just that marketers have brainwashed everyone into thinking that you NEED a gazillion focus points to do any photography! Sure, certain types of photography absolutely benefit from multiple focus points. But there is plenty of other types of photography where it's not needed. Landscape, portrait, and still life photos certainly don't need all those focus points. Clearly, certain cameras are geared towards that type of photography. The 6D is one such camera.

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 19, 2012)

@T3: At least, after 16hours of deep sleep, you found "certain types of photography" that benefits from off-center AF point. Can you name some? Did you try any of those yet?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Steve Ives
By Steve Ives (Sep 18, 2012)

No, no no - built in GPS and get yourself an external flash if you need one, instead of a little toy flash who's only purpose is to tick a box on the marketing sheet.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Sep 18, 2012)

a bit like cameras, the best flash is the one you've got with you. If it's built in it's always with you, far better than the bells-and-whistles flash you left at home.

2 upvotes
bgbs
By bgbs (Sep 18, 2012)

If this is an entry level FF, I believe built in flash is an important feature. Listen, it is aquared that Canon found wifi and GPS more important than built in flash. I use built in flash all the time remotely. I think you've been taking built in flash for granted.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

It's so much easier and less expensive to add a compact hotshoe flash to this camera than it is to add GPS or Wi-Fi to a camera that doesn't have it. Frankly, I'd rather have the built-ion GPS and Wi-Fi. I think GPS and Wi-Fi is going to be a very strong selling point for this camera. Canon is thinking ahead of the curve with this camera. We live in an interconnected world, where every cell phone camera is connected to GPS and Wi-Fi.

1 upvote
Dan
By Dan (Sep 18, 2012)

Who said that you had to pick either or? They could've put both into the body.

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

"Who said that you had to pick either or?"

Well, the same can be said about any features: why don't they just put everything in the camera!?!

The reason is that adding these things add to the cost of the camera. It may not seem like much to the average consumer who thinks that there is no cost associated with anything, but the reality is that all these costs are considered.

You also have to remember that this is only the first 6D. In a year and half, or so, there will be a 6D MKII. Then a 6D MKIII. Then a 6D MKIV, etc. Eventually, a pop-up flash will "pop up" on one of these future models. Consumers always want everything *right now*, but companies need to stretch things out.

0 upvotes
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Sep 19, 2012)

but is it any cheaper overall, after you have bought the flashgun to compliment your D6 purchase - would it not have been cheaper afterall to have the flash built in? Or are you saying you don't need the flash at all, it is a waste of money either way, built in or bolt on?

0 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (Sep 18, 2012)

I was hoping to upgrade my 500D soon and go full frame. Have been waiting for the announcement of this new camera for ages but now having read about it I will be holding off. If the Canon 5D MK III had a pop up flash and was less bulky I would have bought it. All the extra gizmos with GPS is all marketing hype aimed at people who are more interested in tech gadgets as opposed to a quality camera that takes good photos. Get yourself a GPS unit instead.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

Figure the cost and hassle of adding GPS and Wi-Fi to a DSLR, vs adding a compact pocket hotshoe flash. Think of that for a moment. I'd much rather have the built-in GPS and Wi-Fi. Besides, a pocket hotshoe flash will give you greater power, and greater clearance for full frame lenses.

1 upvote
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

monygm get yourself a good flash, don't use low Guide numbers from build in flash. The Speedlight 270EX is a dream :)

0 upvotes
Dan
By Dan (Sep 18, 2012)

I really like the idea of being able to control the camera from my phone. I LOVE built-in flashes.

0 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 18, 2012)

But, there is no wireless commander also. Buying a flash unit does not solve wireless flash issue.

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

@AP7 - "Buying a flash unit does not solve wireless flash issue."

Of course it does. Why do you think it doesn't? The recently introduced compact Canon 90EX flash (introduced with the EOS M) has full wireless commander functionality. Plus, it's tiny, is taller than a built-in flash, and is more powerful.

0 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 19, 2012)

@T3: "More powerful", did you ever read the Specification of 90EX, don't establish yourself funny.

0 upvotes
montygm
By montygm (Sep 18, 2012)

Having been a Canon user for many years now I am also rather dissapointed with this new addition to the Canon line. They are trying to target the entry level consumer market to lure them to full frame and lens sales as "cameralabtester" mentioned but are going about it in a very stupid way. The fact that they have ommited a pop up flash is a huge mistake for one thing. Be it small as it is, it does come in very handy for fill in light, many people don't want to drag a bulky Speedlight around with them everywhere. Having worked in camera sales for over 7 years now I know of a great deal of customers ( some pros as well ) who often lammented on this missing on the 5D's. Why doesn't Canon listen to what customers want!!!! The fact that Nikon have also incorporated the ability to use DX` lenses as well is brilliant marketing on their part. Why would you want to buy this camera when the Nikon D600 has higher specs and lets the buyer be able to use DX and FX lenses? And the flash sync!
Geez

5 upvotes
lighthunter80
By lighthunter80 (Sep 18, 2012)

I have had an EOS 10D, 350D, 60D and now a 5Dmk2 and never missed the build in flash at all. In fact I never used it in my previous models. Had one years ago but never was a fan of flash light. I rather use fast lenses like my prime selection from 35 to 135mm.

3 upvotes
Thorbard
By Thorbard (Sep 18, 2012)

Canon undeniably listened to their customers.

Canon listened to their potential customers continually whining about the lack of an "affordable" full frame.

As for the comment about DX lenses, Canon EF-S lenses are physically incompatible with a full-frame EF mount so there was never any way to give that functionality.

0 upvotes
Canoman21
By Canoman21 (Sep 18, 2012)

I loath pop up flashes. Sadly my 40 D and 60 D have the damn things. They are at the best of times useless and how many DSLR owners have a separate flash unit sitting on the top anyway..... I rest my case.

2 upvotes
sandy b
By sandy b (Sep 18, 2012)

canoman, then canon should have their cameras set up to work with an on-board flash. I try not to use it, but when I do the d700 and D7000 meter beautifully, very unobtrusive and natural.

2 upvotes
bgbs
By bgbs (Sep 18, 2012)

true, omitting flash is a huge mistake. The pro's may tell you that "I never ever ever..." but this camera is not aimed at them. If this camera comes with 11point AF, than it is clearly aimed at amateur market.

The pro crowd needs to realize as well, that those pro's who do have built in flash on models such as D700 use it to trigger remotely, or with diffusers. And secondly built in flash does not take anything away from the camera. It doesn't make your camera worse, or more bulky, or less professional, or what ever else. In fact when it is closed, it is so invsible, that nobody would notice you have a pop up flash (assuming you're afraid that if someone sees popup flash you will look less professional).

My point, there is no drawbacks to having a popup flash, only benefits.

2 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

I almost never use the built in flash on my camera.
But it'd have been nice if this camera had a flash commander built in. Using a built in flash, or using radio waves(like the new speedlite RT flashes).
Anyway, i don't care. I don't like to use flash.

1 upvote
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

montygm. Have to disagree with all your comments so far. Great that we can on here now and again. I've sold and used cameras for the last 15 years and never and I mean never had I had someone (pro or not) moan about requiring GN9 to GN13 build in flash. It's actually a little running joke about the uselessness of built in flash in Mid range DSLR's.
Just wanted to give you another side to the story :)

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 19, 2012)

@BeanyPic - I think you're right about the lack of a built-in flash. Its absence will not be a deterrent for the vast majority of people that are considering this camera. I'm sure Canon has done the studies to show this. I'm not ruling out a built-in flash showing up on a 6D MKII or MKIII, but for this initial offering, I don't think it's going to be a big deal for most people. Besides, you can always pick up a Canon 90EX, which is tiny, has full flash commander capabilities, is taller than a built-in (for better lens clearance), and is more powerful, too. And it won't draw power from the camera's battery.

0 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 21, 2012)

Way to go ! I agree with every word, I've used pop up flash on both Nikon & Canon (as a professional at weddings etc) and at times its really useful. The 6D has no flash and no external speed light multi-flash control system - unlike the Nikon D600 which has BOTH. Just can't see why senior staff at Canon are so out of touch. Wake up boys, Nikon is on your case and eating your breakfast !

1 upvote
montygm
By montygm (Sep 24, 2012)

Hi BeanyPic,
Sorry to say I don't agree with your comment there, you seem to miss my point completely. The 6D is aimed as an entry level beginners camera, having omitted a flash is a really stupid thing Canon have done in my opinion. If you have read my previous comments you would be aware that I am not a big fan of flash, but what I am stating is that it does have a huge convenience for the entry level market. Not everyone wants to carry a bulky external flash unit with them. The pop us is NOT aimed at Pro shooting obviously, but for the general consumer and casual snapper which this camera has been targeted at. It is also handy to have when you are going somewhere and need flash but don't have the baggage space to carry on private occasions.

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Sep 18, 2012)

By luring APS lens owners into el cheapo full framhoe camera territory... Canon gains more FF lens sales, and accelerating their APS lens legacy into the dustbin of oblivion.

Nikon's philosophy is better: DX APS lenses CAN be used on their Full Frame cameras... with lesser MP of course... a better legacy.

Just like their FD mount, the EF-S mount is history...

.

2 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

I don know much. But canon makes only just less than 10 or so lenses in canon's EF-S lineup. But nikon on the other hand has a lot of lenses on DX format. It's not worth comparing them directly to each other so.

Canon expects people who uses their fullframe cameras to have some good quality lenses. While nikon thinks it the other way by letting people use those lenses in even their flagship model.

I support the canon ideology in this case. In just this case.

5 upvotes
pacc
By pacc (Sep 18, 2012)

EF-S on fullframe has technical issue on canon,
they specified it to make it possible for lenses to get closer to the sensor which means that there exists lenses that would come in contact with the mirror of a fullframe.
Nikon probably analyzed this before they came out with the DX mount.

0 upvotes
Thorbard
By Thorbard (Sep 18, 2012)

It'll never be the same issue as the FD unless there is a big technology change like there was with autofocus and camera electronics.

There is no way that this camera will kill off APS-C DSLRs in the way you're predicting. Why would it, the sensors are always going to be more expensive for one, there is around 2.5 times as much material in a FF sensor than an APS-C one so APS-C will always rule the entry-level field.

0 upvotes
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

Abhijith Kannankavil Well said :)

0 upvotes
guermanp
By guermanp (Sep 18, 2012)

@Abhijith Kannankavil - so Canon expects 6D will be attached to L-series lenses (because non-L inexpensive Canon lenses are old, sluggish and they are incapable to reash 22MP sensor resolution)? And what's the purpose of combo of "cheap" body with expensive pro-grade lenses?

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 20, 2012)

I never said anything about L series. My personal experience suggests that some non L lenses do perform better than the L ones. Sometimes such things happens. For eg:EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro is good. But the 100mm f2.8L IS Macro is just better built.

0 upvotes
Jun2
By Jun2 (Sep 18, 2012)

rebel has 9 cross-AF points.

0 upvotes
scrup
By scrup (Sep 18, 2012)

Is this the only current SLR to have one cross type AF point?

Hopefully the lack of AF info is to help 5d sales along and then when it is released there are at least more than one cross type sensors. If the T4 has it, i don't see why the 6D shouldn't.

1 upvote
SiliconVoid
By SiliconVoid (Sep 18, 2012)

Not even close.. Many dslr's do not have cross-type AF points, and not just Canon.

I suggest learning whether it even has any effect on your use before joining the flock of complainers. If the new AF system shows not to perform well it will be a flaw or miscalculation in design - not some inherent inferiority due to the number of points.

6 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

It's not the number of cross points or the number of AF points that we need to care about. It is the spread of those points which matter. If all those points are so close to the center like, on the 5Dmii, you won't really have much use with any of the af points other than the centre one, Because anyway you'd have to focus and recompose.

As this camera is based on 60D, i don expect it to have a good arrangement of AF points. In my case, all i use would be the centre one. So, i don't care much.

1 upvote
Plastek
By Plastek (Sep 18, 2012)

It's not that simple either. More points - even in center only - mean better tracking ability in AF-C. But then there's a matter of AF accuracy and speed - which aren't really dependant on number of points.

"Not even close.. Many dslr's do not have cross-type AF points, and not just Canon." - What do you mean? From current cameras ALL do have them. Heck: Sony's cheapest, smallest camera offers 3 cross points spread nicely along the frame. Sorry, but 6D AF smells like the one from 2007 more then 2012. We'll see how it performs though.

3 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

AF accuracy not only depends upon the fact that if the sensor is cross type or not. But also the resolving power of the lens used. So having cross type sensors may not help a lot if you are using a bad lens.
But, using a good lens will help a lot even if there is no cross point available.
And the best would be having cross sensors and a good lens.

0 upvotes
Dan
By Dan (Sep 18, 2012)

For those that do not know what a cross-type AF sensor is, I strongly suggest that you Google it to learn about it. Someone here doesn't seem to get it that cross-type AF sensors increase accuracy. Think of a cross-type AF sensor as one that can see horizontal AND vertical lines. Without a cross-type sensor, that AF point can only see lines in one direction.

0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 20, 2012)

To get those horizontal or vertical or whatever in the best sharpness to the sensor, you definitely need a lens with good resolving power. That's exactly why each lens behaves differently with a same body while AF.ing.

0 upvotes
snooked123
By snooked123 (Sep 18, 2012)

Guys,

Chill out!! Pretty soon the price of Canon 6d will drop to $1700-$1800 and will become a good bargain. Canon 6d will be to Nikon 600d what Canon 60d is to Nikon d7000: both will sell well just except that 6d would have a lower price point. Canon 5dIII is already dropping in price and at $2700-$2800 it's also selling like hot cakes so no worries everything will settle down :).

But I love Canon marketing as I really feel that Canon is out to milk the customers and the customers are very interested in getting milked :). I am waiting for the day when Canon users would justify a $1500 dollar price differential between the current and the older model by saying the LCD upgrade alone is worth it :).

2 upvotes
SiliconVoid
By SiliconVoid (Sep 18, 2012)

Kudos..
A few people realize the primary difference between Canon and Nikon as far as pricing. Canon typically drops its msrp over the lifetime of the product - Nikon doesn't drop the msrp until a replacement has been announced. Early adopters pay a premium for just about anything in the world, but that is by choice.

Yes, for those who wish to wait you will be able to pick up a 6D for several hundreds less than it initially hits the market. (If that is the primary hindrance when it becomes available.)

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Sep 18, 2012)

This thing probably should have come out at $1,095 to make sense and waves. Looks like the extra thousand is for the usual Canon name mark-up. At $2,095, there is precious little reason for its existence.

1 upvote
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

$1095???? Are you talking about a full frame camera or a toy one??? PLease people. talk something that makes sense.

1 upvote
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

Uh Oh,,, Francis is ranting again everyone. Call the authorities ;)

0 upvotes
frank200
By frank200 (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm a Canon User I love my cameras for some time I thought there was no other camera .... now i have a Sony A57 and i LOVE it I hope some day Canon will match Sony in spec and price The part That I love the most of Sony is On camera Image stabilization .. it makes it so much cheaper to buy lens

2 upvotes
Jahled
By Jahled (Sep 17, 2012)

Wow, interesting

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Plastek
By Plastek (Sep 18, 2012)

Yep, good point, on the other hand though - Sony is missing some things, like USM ultra-wide lens.
Thank god there are 3rd party lenses which don't have any issues with Sony bodies unlike it's with Canon bodies (for example: AF from Tamron lenses performs equally well to native Sony gear when mount on a body).
Oh, and then there's a fun-fact: Sony colors are much closer to these Canon got then Nikon (IMHO they are even much better once you know how to set up your workflow, and don't use default Adobe Lightroom color profile for Sony, which greatly limits potential behind these bodies causing overblown reds).

3 upvotes
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

An imaging brand (Canon) Versus a Jack of all trades who buy and mix multiple technologies (Sony) I know which way I'll be going as a serious photographer. Image brand all the way.

0 upvotes
nffeeee
By nffeeee (Sep 17, 2012)

I have been a Nikon user (D700) for a while (six months, four years ago) before switching to Canon and still very happy about my decision. I have a 5d MKII and a 5d MK III and I would NEVER change to Nikon. Why?
1) Canon glasses
2) Canon colours
3) Canon Services
4) Would you spend your time choosing one of the 345 AF points instead of understand the right focal plane to focus with a single point?
5) Nikon's images look always greenish and artifical, no matters more MP.. I tried the D800.. I am not able to get what I want from Nikon RAWS with PS (I am still a Kodachrome fanboy).. I get great results with Canon in 5 minutes

So please TRY the 6D before judging... when I bought the 5d mk III I just saw the specs and I was sure it was only a real small update.. I change my idea when I started to use it.. USE IT AND JUDGE IT!!!

6 upvotes
VivaLasVegas
By VivaLasVegas (Sep 17, 2012)

100000++++

1 upvote
cluening
By cluening (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon colours? Nikon colours artificial? Why Canon pics always look like instagram snaps? Both never reached Minolta colours. ;-)

3 upvotes
Dan
By Dan (Sep 17, 2012)

What about Nikon's service department has given you trouble?

I think Nikon colors are much more pleasing. Canon can't seem to do white balance right, and their colors are too cool.

Your argument about the AF points is flawed. You're just trying to find reasons to hate. Your 5D3 has more AF points than that. Are you telling me it gets in the way of your photography?

Canon does not have superior glass. If you're trying to choose a system based on glass, you're missing something...something BIG.

While I respect Canon and know I can make great pictures with their cameras, I can not help myself but laugh at the 6D. Why on earth would anyone want to buy it? (I'm being sarcastic here) I was just talking to a photographer friend of mine that has a high-end Canon crop body, and he's not interested BECAUSE of the AF sensor. This looks like a dud to me, but Canon need not worry. People will buy it anyway.

3 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 17, 2012)

One reason why other AF points are useful is shallow DOF work. If you center focus and recompose, you run the risk of moving forward or backwards, thereby losing critical focus.

But I'm sure the 6D is a fine camera, but I'm reading a ton of rationalizing. "We don't need no 51 AF points" or "We don't need 100% VF". But you can be sure that if Nikon had released such a camera with corners cut in critical areas, the Canon fans would be the first to say "But, but...it only has ONE cross type AF sensor".

Personally, if I shot Canon, I'd buy a 5D II or spring for a 5D III.

3 upvotes
tonywong
By tonywong (Sep 17, 2012)

nffeeee
Joined on Sep 17, 2012

2 posts. Identical posts. One above and the same in the preview article.

5 upvotes
AP7
By AP7 (Sep 17, 2012)

@nffeee: Canon got a huge number of complain from the users of 5D Mark III and 1DX because of using 61 point AF that makes photographers life difficult to choose one AF point out of 61.

Canon realizes the fault and design 6D using 11 AF point with only center cross so that photographer can now use 50mm f/1.2 lens and center point AF to focus and recompose and then get a blurry image !.

0 upvotes
g7star
By g7star (Sep 18, 2012)

+1 to 2)
I'd say it's even better than Olympus (for portrait at least) and far better than Nikon (= greenish grey tint with super bright orange.)

0 upvotes
Devendra
By Devendra (Sep 18, 2012)

i agree tony.. it looks like canon's damage control is creating new id's to or waking up sleeper cell dpr id's. the best part is s/he says "please" to try out canon's.

either way even a used 5D2 outperforms 6D and is probably cheaper now that D600 and D800 are out.

0 upvotes
ScarletVarlet
By ScarletVarlet (Sep 18, 2012)

Well done!

I like a voice of reason in a blizzard of snow. I'm switching to Canon from Nikon because of my disgust with how my last Nikon held up (or failed to, I found I was not alone with many of the flaws in the camera and the frustrations of trying to push the camera to do things it was incapable of - it's finally dead so I'm in the market.)

I'll be waiting to see how this camera stacks up in actual use before making a choice. I'm already accumulating bits and pieces of kit, the body will be last to purchase because glass, filters, et al will work across the line.

1 upvote
Nishi Drew
By Nishi Drew (Sep 18, 2012)

"Please try a 6D first!" Oh shut up... please

You're running a MK3, good for you, I can't afford that and so I was looking forward to an affordable alternative, not what the 6D has turned out to be. And as what others say, a few more accurate AF points that work in low light would be great, in fact, that's all that some people need.

Canon understands that some people "just" want good AF + FF, so that's where the Mk3 is at, they intentionally kill the 6D in that segment for that

1 upvote
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

I agree with you on the colours. canon have been more realistic in colours while nikon (and other cameras featuring sony sensors) have always been a little bit more colourfull and feels a tiny bit artificial. It's simply a personal choice, but i like the original looks of pics from canon cameras.

1 upvote
Lea5
By Lea5 (Sep 18, 2012)

If you're not able to get what you want from a Nikon RAW, your're not able to get it from any other RAW. You should work on your skills.

0 upvotes
nffeeee
By nffeeee (Sep 18, 2012)

@Lea5: That's true that I am not a PS wizard but it takes me just 5 minutes to get from a Canon RAW what I want.. it is of course subjective..

0 upvotes
nffeeee
By nffeeee (Sep 18, 2012)

@Dan: As far as the Nikon service is concerned, I was in Morocco doing reportage for a newspaper and the grip of the D700 got unsticked. When I came back home, I called Nikon Service to get it repaired and they told me that I should not go in SO HOT places... they would not include it in the guarantee..it is incredibile and really hard to believe but it was like this... trust me!
As far as the glasses are concerned maybe I still miss to like their quality.. subjective..

0 upvotes
nffeeee
By nffeeee (Sep 18, 2012)

@tonywong: sorry I just realized now that I did twice!
@Devendra: Of course I am working for Canon Secret Services;-)

0 upvotes
Plastek
By Plastek (Sep 18, 2012)

Lea5 - why should anyone struggle with Nikon RAWs and processing, "work on skills" while they can get great result straight from the box of Canon or Sony body?

Also - think about all the beginners - they either settle down with Nikon never knowing the beauty of color, or get a better camera from competition.

0 upvotes
Lea5
By Lea5 (Sep 18, 2012)

Plastek-because you get any colour you want out of any camera. You just need to learn about the specifics of camera profiles. Doesn't matter if you use PS, Lightroom, NX, Canon's DPP, Phase One whatever. I had for many years Canon, used Fuji S3 and today I own a D4 and D800E. I can get out any colour I want.

0 upvotes
nffeeee
By nffeeee (Sep 18, 2012)

@Lea5: You are almost right, everyone can get a personal white balance on any raw file of every camera. But you know that colours don't mean only white balance but also other things which are difficult to manage (colour gradations and so on). I saw in our website you are doing tons of post-production. You images are great but I have to say that it is not really the kind of photography which need strong chromatic counterpoints. Hope not to hurt you ;-)

0 upvotes
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm not a nikon user. but i think something like custom color profiles in post processing may help. Same in case of printing

0 upvotes
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

That's why different camera brands work for different people. One persons great looking picture is not another persons. Get what you like and use it well. And stop slagging each brand off.

PS I'm a Canon user.

0 upvotes
ARTASHES
By ARTASHES (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon reminds me Nokia, being the best for too longtime (first ff, best low light performance until d700/d3 etc) they forgot what competition is

11 upvotes
Prestidigitator
By Prestidigitator (Sep 18, 2012)

Wrong. Canon is more like Apple. Pay more for less. Rely on the blind fanb0is to buy their crap anyway.

5 upvotes
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Sep 18, 2012)

Yawn, your boring me now...

0 upvotes
jkr77
By jkr77 (Sep 18, 2012)

Whose playing the Microsoft in your Nokia comparison?
Sony/Canon Alliance??

0 upvotes
ZEROrhythm
By ZEROrhythm (Sep 17, 2012)

This is the 5dII the 2nd. Everyone is just going to use center point focusing like the MK2. Not a bad price for the retail price. MK2 came out around $2,800, hopefully this will drop down around 1,700. I can see it selling once canon realized no one will pay $2,100 for something like this when they can still get a Mk2 for a cheaper price.

0 upvotes
Jahled
By Jahled (Sep 17, 2012)

This glared at me in the face immediately, the appalling AF that reminded me of the horrors of the 5D2 if you dared try and venture away creatively. It annoyed me so much I sold two and bought into 1D bodies, which is why i'm sighing at this body; unless Canon have totally fixed it with this particular AF system. Instinct is over ruling that out, though

1 upvote
SiliconVoid
By SiliconVoid (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh yeah.. I hate when I can't 'automate' my creativity.... O.o

0 upvotes
Jahled
By Jahled (Sep 18, 2012)

That's a cheap reply and if you've worked with a 5D2 you would know it. I worked with two of them and I almost lost sleep over the nightmare of the unreliable AF on them. The various 1D bodies have cured that, as has the 5D3 apparently; I guess I was just left scarred by the experience :)

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 17, 2012)

I can't imagine why Canon would release a FF DSLR and cut corners on the viewfinder. Doesn't the 7D have a 100% viewfinder? I know the D600 has one, as does the D7000. Heck even the Pentax K-30 has a 100% Pentaprism viewfinder.

2 upvotes
SiliconVoid
By SiliconVoid (Sep 17, 2012)

I can assure you that Canon doesn't care, they know it doesn't make any functional difference..
However as many review sites, and the pubic relying on those sites to tell them what is good/bad, what better way to have the camera classified at one end or the other. As this is an entry-level camera (albeit in the FF realm) that will help the masses better define it at the lower end, possibly causing them to want to upgrade at some point to the mkIII or whatever comes around later...

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 17, 2012)

VF on a DSLR doesn't make any functional difference? We both know that it does. The problem is if you have models lower in your line that have 100% VF, this model starts looking less attractive.

2 upvotes
VivaLasVegas
By VivaLasVegas (Sep 17, 2012)

Marike6, step back 6 inches, that will bring your VF 100%

0 upvotes
cluening
By cluening (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon anyway has yellowish VFs. Nothing beats A900 VF.

1 upvote
SiliconVoid
By SiliconVoid (Sep 17, 2012)

No... I asserted it does not make any difference whether it is 97% or 100%, and technically I stated that it did not make any difference to Canon who knows it does not effect the ability of the camera to do what it was designed to do...

To be honest, the greater impact would be a viewfinder that showed you more than what is being captured - opening up endless possibilities of missing something you thought was going to be in the image.. Having ~1/4" more of the scene around the border than you saw in the viewfinder hardly counts as a limitation or impacts your ability to capture the image.. Personally I would take the latter.
It is just a marketing feature/comparison..

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
Plastek
By Plastek (Sep 18, 2012)

cluening - yep, agreed. No idea why is that though.

1 upvote
Prestidigitator
By Prestidigitator (Sep 18, 2012)

LOL. Pros who have used 100% VF for decades laugh at the fanb0is apologizing and rationalizing an obvious crippling from Canon.

2 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 18, 2012)

100% VF's were great for the film days, but in the digital age I almost always want a bit more image frame in my image because it's an advantage for cropping and image straightening. So I don't see what the big deal about 100% VF is. It offers no practical advantage other than bragging rights. With both a 100% and 97% VF, you still see exactly what you're framing. It's just that with a 97% VF, you get more framing headroom which can be valuable to have in post-process evaluation, straightening, and cropping. Better to have a little too much than too little, I say. That doesnt mean I want a 90% VF. But 97% is fine!

People need to think these things through before automatically having the knee-jerk reaction that 100% is better than 97%. Shooting with slightly more image area captured is like shooting RAW to have extra image data captured. Both are valuable to have in post.

0 upvotes
VivaLasVegas
By VivaLasVegas (Sep 17, 2012)

At -3EV, 6D is the new "Lord of Darkness"!

5 upvotes
Bamboojled
By Bamboojled (Sep 17, 2012)

Yea the "Lord of Darkness"... Cause it will never see the light of day from Canon's warehouse.:)

15 upvotes
VivaLasVegas
By VivaLasVegas (Sep 17, 2012)

Believe me, 6D will sell like hot cakes, even in total darkness.

2 upvotes
David Hull
By David Hull (Sep 17, 2012)

1/180 sec Sync speed? 1/4000 sec top end SS? Give it up Vegas -- you are polishing a turd. I tend to be a Canon supporter but I don't see how anyone could be impressed with this thing

6 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (Sep 18, 2012)

Well I am impressed by its size, rigid body and lower price. AF points are normal for my use and am delighted by its innovative WiFi functionality. I don't want anything more.

All I care how it performs .. yet to be seen. I want it to perform better than 5dIII in DR and noise. That's all I care!

0 upvotes
Nishi Drew
By Nishi Drew (Sep 18, 2012)

Naveed, it's body isn't as rigid because of the wifi/GPS inclusion, now the top plate is plastic. And better DR and noise then the Mk3? Never happening, and whether or not the wifi is innovative is something yet to be seen.

1 upvote
Abhijith Kannankavil
By Abhijith Kannankavil (Sep 18, 2012)

don expect this thing to be as rigid as the 7d even. Place it between 60D and 7D in that respect. and will be the least weatherproofed camera in canon line up.

But, let me ask you. Does that matter so much to you???
A complete mag alloy body does matter for me. But people upgrading from smaller cameras may not be interested with the weight.

To compare, put it next to the D800 who's whole front face is plastic while only the back plate is alloy. People still love using it.

0 upvotes
RX100
By RX100 (Sep 17, 2012)

Imagine the reaction if the 6D was the 5D MkIII!

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Jon Stern
By Jon Stern (Sep 17, 2012)

How on Earth did you end up editing a 10-word comment 3 times?

Especially when it was an "imagine a hypothetical different version of history" post that didn't really say much.

8 upvotes
VivaLasVegas
By VivaLasVegas (Sep 17, 2012)

As a long time Nikon user, this is a traumatic day for me. The newly released D600 can ONLY focus -1EV in low light, that is a full TWO stop behind 6D, WTF. To add salt into injury, they've also regurgitated the flawed D7000 AF into the new D600.

5 upvotes
Great British Landscapes
By Great British Landscapes (Sep 17, 2012)

But you've never touched a Nikon Vegas. All do is blow BS and lies about the mastery of the 5DIII... You're a walking one man comedy anyway...

5 upvotes
VivaLasVegas
By VivaLasVegas (Sep 17, 2012)

One man comedy, LOL, but your laughing and replying to all my post. I must be one funny comedian to you! Your in shock right now due to -3EV AF, wifi+GPS, 1070 batt life clicks, m&sraw, in-cam raw processing, more metal than plastic body, 770g with battery, real HDR mode, 9 multi-exposure, no rebel type popup flash and better looking! Relaaax GB Landscaper.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 17, 2012)

The D7000 has 39 AF point with 9 cross type AF sensors. How many does the 6D have? One. Yikes.

0 upvotes
JakeB
By JakeB (Sep 17, 2012)

Ignore the troll.

0 upvotes
kayone
By kayone (Sep 17, 2012)

My D7000 AF system worked fine, what 'flaw' are you talking about?

0 upvotes
SiliconVoid
By SiliconVoid (Sep 17, 2012)

Always makes me chuckle every time someone rebuts with 'I haven't seen the problem, obviously doesn't exist'.... Just like with the D800..
It doesn't mater whether 'you' experienced any issues, if the manufacturer acknowledges an 'issue' then it was an issue.
The D7000 had issues with hot pixels and AF, the D800 had issues with AF points.. You can live in denial all you want, you can also go the manufacturers website and see what they did to address the issues..

0 upvotes
SiliconVoid
By SiliconVoid (Sep 17, 2012)

As for (Vegas).. Dude, if you are the type of 'photographer' that looks to jump ship every time a new body comes along perhaps you need to explore another hobby - photography is obviously not what you should be spending your time or money in.

I can guarantee you that either the 6D or D600 is exponentially more capable than your ability to use them...

3 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 17, 2012)

I had a D7000 and I currently have a D800, neither has any AF issues. But if it makes you feel better, you can say they both have worse AF than this 9 AF points / 1 Cross-type model.

2 upvotes
VivaLasVegas
By VivaLasVegas (Sep 17, 2012)

Kayone, where have you been, it is a well documented problem numerous months after it was released(no bs). Good for you, you have a good copy.

0 upvotes
Devendra
By Devendra (Sep 17, 2012)

you are a long time nikon user?? haha. that is the biggest joke - probably matching 6D's release

Comment edited 19 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Dan
By Dan (Sep 17, 2012)

The D600 most likely has a different AF system than the D7000. There's a DX at the end of the name of the D7000's AF system. The D700 had better AF than the D300, so I expect/hope the same to be true for the AF systems of the D600 vs. D7000. But for now, we can only speculate.

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Paulmeister
By Paulmeister (Sep 20, 2012)

The D7K has both quick and accurate AF (on high-end glass). There is no 'flaw' unless like me you want the entire screen covered in AF points (if that were possible). :) I can only assume you're sensationalizing for a reason.

0 upvotes
Münchhausen
By Münchhausen (Sep 17, 2012)

The Price Point is ridiculous, for the 6d As well As for the Nikon D600. We're broke in Europe, and we will simply not shell out 2000€ for a entry level FF. Greed is good, but it is killing economy right now. Where is the camera manufacturer that would offer a 1500$/€ FF camera? Sony could have done it, but they didn't have the cojones for it, or Pentax, but they don't have the will either. I won't by anything of this, and even not the RX1 with its ridiculous price. vale

Comment edited 50 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Octane
By Octane (Sep 17, 2012)

Sounds like you are just upset because you can't afford it. It's not the company's fault if you can't afford a product they make.

3 upvotes
Münchhausen
By Münchhausen (Sep 17, 2012)

Sounds like you didn't understand anything of what I said. I hope you will by both cameras, so you could compare them.

0 upvotes
kayone
By kayone (Sep 17, 2012)

I think we do understand what you're saying. Basically you are being a spoiled, cheap consumer who wants as much as possible for as little money as possible. $2000 US is the CHEAPEST we've seen entry level FF cameras to date and yet greedy complainers like you say this is not enough?

3 upvotes
Münchhausen
By Münchhausen (Sep 17, 2012)

It's not enough my friend because in Europe you will pay 2000€! And why? Oh explain me this! I would pay the equivalent of 2000$ in €, if the camera is really good. For real-life people this is quite an amount; for the others, who dont have any real connection between their work and the money they are earning for it, naturally this doesn't matter. But then I don't really understand why you are looking at so cheapish products as the d600 or 6d; you have the big ones, and then Leica, naturally...

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
VLampa
By VLampa (Sep 18, 2012)

I think it has been posted numerous times already that your high tariffs in the EU region causes prices to inflate over there. Again, yours is a simple case of "I can't afford this, so I BLAME CAMERA MANUFACTURERS". Sorry, no one really pities you. FF cameras are never gonna be life-or-death necessities, except for pro photographers, and even then, they can justify the cost for the 6D. Nor will camera companies feel the loss of your $1500 business loss. Don't worry, Canon still makes something for you, it's called the Powershot A800.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Jurriaan Schalken
By Jurriaan Schalken (Sep 19, 2012)

I agree with munchausen. I bought my original 5d for 1700 euro brand new (1,5 year after release). I bought my 5d2 for 2000 euro brand new, a year after release. So this sounds like a bad deal for the price, specs-wise.

I also think canon is milking out outdated sensor technology, because sony EXMOR is a generation ahead in noisefloor/dr/resolution.

I am not buing a new Canon DSRL before there is new sensor technology and raw video out. Nikon has it already.
And they offer more for the price.

Canon did great with 5D and 5dmkII. After that they focussed too much on their pro cinema line, which is also too expensive compared to RED, and forgot it's DSRLs that many (starting) filmmakers want.

- I also find the fanboy replies about Munchausen's opinion about the 6d's dubious price/features degrading. I have used Canon for 15 years and for the first time I am seriously looking at the competition.

Looks like Nikon is trying HARDER to win my heart than Canon is trying to keep it.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 15 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Katie Piecrust
By Katie Piecrust (Sep 17, 2012)

Hmm... does one choose a top of the line crop camera or a bottom of the line full frame? I think my preference is still going to be an updated 7D so long as they keep everything currently great about it, like the 100% viewfinder coverage. Adding that -3 EV and built in wi-fi would be a good start. I wonder if Canon will announce any other new cameras or if this is the last one for the year.

I also wonder if Canon is planning on eventually retiring the 1.6x crop factor sensor for good, perhaps only keeping it in their Rebels for a spell while the rest of their line goes FF. Certainly they can only take crop sensors so far before they have no choice but to increase the sensor area. Would certainly shake up the field, that's for sure. I suppose 1.3x crop could also be a possibility down the road, something Canon has played with before.

2 upvotes
TakisL
By TakisL (Sep 17, 2012)

Katie the 1,6X sensor is crucial for them who are taking wildlife and sports photos like me. The full frame sensor at the other hand is good for landscape, portaiture and wedding photography which also I like too. So why do you ask to retire it? How long are you involving with photography?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 13 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Gothmoth
By Gothmoth (Sep 17, 2012)

the 7d is a nice camera.. except this noise problem at low iso. i don´t mean color noise i mean this "crisl" noise.....

1 upvote
TakisL
By TakisL (Sep 17, 2012)

Yes, I have a 7D three years now and I have taken more than 45,000 photos. It's the camera of choise for anyone who like bird photography, even the professionals. The noise is a problem but you learn to live with it... I would like to have a socond, full frame, camera for landscapes, macro and portraits but 6D has the same price with 5D MkII (before 5D MkIII appears in the market). I am so disappointed ....

0 upvotes
Jahled
By Jahled (Sep 17, 2012)

That's a load of tosh, TakisL. The camera of choice for professional bird photography is a full frame or APS-H 1D or Nikon model with appropriate glass. My mate Craig spends day in day out shooting birds with a D4 now, and did so before on a D3. When you have large glass you don't need to rely on a APS-C sensor.

2 upvotes
Tommot1965
By Tommot1965 (Sep 17, 2012)

I belive crop cameras only came into existence because of the early days of sensor manufacturing making a 35mm sensor was too expensive..and thats what sprung the crop bodies...now sensor design and production costs have reduced FF cameras are back...people like Nikon and canon want you to buy long glass for FF bodies ...I personally don't shoot birds etc..and FF for me is a good choice

2 upvotes
Jancc
By Jancc (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree with Gothmoth, everything on 7D is good except the sensor ...the banding noise on 7D is simply horrible and unacceptable ...

0 upvotes
Katie Piecrust
By Katie Piecrust (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm not asking them to ditch the 1.6x crop sensor, only saying that it may eventually be inevitable (due to the laws of physics in case you weren't aware). There have been a few good comments regarding the fact that Canon is also in the glass business, and FF sensors necessitate good glass. It's not hard to do the math, so to speak.

Like Tommot1965 said, APC-C sensors were the result of cost limitations at the time, probably technical too since FF didn't even exist in the first few pro DSLR'S back then. Those limits don't really apply anymore, so why keep making them assuming one has reached the limit of what they can achieve? One less sensor to produce increases profits too.

There has always been this unconscious (or conscious?) desire to mimic 35mm film, including it's dimensions (an artificial limitation admittedly), especially among those whom grew up with it (good old nostalgia). And don't forget 4K is making an appearance this year too, a sign of things to come.

1 upvote
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