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Just Posted: Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1 full frame fixed lens camera preview

By dpreview staff on Sep 12, 2012 at 04:00 GMT
Buy on GearShop$2,798.00

Just Posted: Our hands-on Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1 preview article with video preview. You may well have already heard about Sony's full frame compact camera with a fixed 35mm F2 Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* lens. We've had a chance to play with a pre-production RX1, delve through the menus and discuss its technologies with Sony. We've prepared a four-page preview detailing the RX1's features and capabilities and discussing whether we think the world is ready for a $2800 full frame, fixed-lens camera.

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Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1

Comments

Total comments: 558
12345
Gesture
By Gesture (Sep 12, 2012)

And yet the buttons, battery and memory card slots, connector slot, etc. all look so similar to all other digital cameras. Shouldn't the premium cameras be more robust in many ways.

0 upvotes
mister_roboto
By mister_roboto (Sep 12, 2012)

I think Sony built this mainly for the reason of showing that it's possible. It's also much smaller than I imagined it to be.

And to be honest- the rangefinder user in me finds this desirable, especially with that shoe mount optical view finder. Price-desirable though is another matter.

1 upvote
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

I agree with you and I said it in other post. Sony has built a gadget that is for most of us useless, just to figure in the Guiness book of records for having realized the smallest FF P&S camera. But, is worth doing such things while you can realize a correct ILS mirrorless in FF that sells at a correct price. We can find may reasons for this nonsense that will sell too, some will buy it, many will not. That is an eternal game. Maybe some day engineers of all camera makers will start reading forums and find out first what people ask for and would like to see on the market. But, maybe too, that will remain a dream, just like this FF NEX we ask for since long time, same as a budget friendly FF DSLR that makes photos and that anyone can afford to buy. A99 at 2800 without a lens...sick. In that case I will also find the 200$ to add for a D800.

0 upvotes
MrFlash
By MrFlash (Sep 12, 2012)

I can't figure out who would want or need a very expensive, FF, non-pocketable point and shoot. Without a OVF or, at least, an EVF the RX1 would have to be considered a P&S.

If you can't put it in your pocket you have to carry a bag. If you have to carry a bag why not buy an X-Pro1 and three lenses? The price is about the same. The IQ is probably about the same. What's the point? Makes no sense.

3 upvotes
erichK
By erichK (Sep 12, 2012)

It is, like Leica cameras mainly became, a prestige object, more to be shown and seen, than actually used. I'll take my OMD, thank you. It is small and quiet and weatherproof, and, with the little 25f2 or 45 1.8, quite pocketable at less than half the cost.

0 upvotes
tanmancs
By tanmancs (Sep 12, 2012)

By the way, iPhone 5 just announced and it has 8MP and fits in your pocket. The IQ is probably be the same as XPro1 or OMD. What's the point?

1 upvote
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

then buy one and beware us from you school boy type answers.

0 upvotes
ybizzle
By ybizzle (Sep 12, 2012)

@tanmacs

The IQ of the iPhone 5 is not even close to the Xpro 1 or OMD! Stop dreaming and wake up son! ;)

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Sep 13, 2012)

First of all, this camera can fit inside a coat pocket. Secondly, it can hang from your shoulder or sit in your hand or hang from a hands trap, and it will look a LOT less conspicuous than any other FF camera in the market by a big margin. The entire distance from the front of the lens to the back of the camera is less than the body depth of a 5D MKIII without a lens.

0 upvotes
mwstebbins
By mwstebbins (Sep 12, 2012)

Like someone said my R1 is still going strong, and if Sony can put a comparable R1 zoom (or better) on this RX1, I'll buy it.

2 upvotes
Fullframer
By Fullframer (Sep 12, 2012)

The Sony R1 is not for low light, it was only usable to about ISO800, 1600 far too noisy and it had very poor focus lock in lower light. I had one new in 2005. Back in the day it matched other crop sensor DSLR up to ISO 400.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Jens_G
By Jens_G (Sep 13, 2012)

Why not just get a Nex with zoom? Same size, price, etc?
The only point of having a fixed prime is for compactness - if you incorporate a zoom you are throwing away that benefit. Just get a Nex.

0 upvotes
triplejaydee
By triplejaydee (Sep 12, 2012)

Sample Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgOKZWe3DkQ

0 upvotes
Jim Radcliffe
By Jim Radcliffe (Sep 12, 2012)

Congrats to Sony for proving that a FF sensor can be incorporated into such a small body.. and a great lens to boot.

Some have pointed out that you could buy a 5D2 and lens for the price of the Sony RX1.. but that is not the point... it's the size/bulk that matters where the RX1 is considered. Compare weight and size of the 5D2 to the RX1.. you can't take that out of the equation.

The price stings a bit.. well, quite a bit.. but I think we all have to wait and see what the RX1 is capable of producing image-wise.. and of course, how fast the AF is on this new camera. I'm not a big fan of fixed focal length cameras but the RX1 sure looks to be the camera to steal the show at Photokina.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
13 upvotes
Fullframer
By Fullframer (Sep 12, 2012)

At least the size/bulk on the full frame DSLR gives you an optical view finder and most likelymuch faster auto focus, a far more capable tool. A D700 type body with a small prime isn't that bad to lug around. WIth the upcoming D600 FF at $2k or less, sorry, the Sony is grossly over priced. Lets not forget, the RX1 for most will be a 2nd camera, not their main camera. $2,800 is a lot of $$ for something that will be used like a point and shoot. I may consider one, have to see how the autofocus is. It would complement my D4.

0 upvotes
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

Fullframer...you're still missing the point. People like myself who buy Leica M8/9's, Fuji Xpro1's etc do not want the size of even a D700 to carry around...we want something small that still has stellar image quality. There are many of us willing to pay the price...

Also, we are well aware of what a DSLR has to offer...I own a 5D2 as well.

6 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

There is many stuff on the market that is a real challenge in technology and that is overpriced and just a few buy just to ow it. A Bugatti Veyron is such a thing, but, I doubt that the RX1 will have the same status value as that one. 2800 for a Point and shoot? And, on the end, we are in a phase where the difference in IQ of a FF compared to an APSC is pulling things by the tip of the hair. The NEX-7 beats the A900 in IQ without any problems, tests compared to the D3X have given the same. So, how much more IQ do you have to produce to get real visible better picture and to justify those prices. I am not a fan at all of fixed focus length cameras, the RX1 is a technological wonder in some way, but most of us asked for a FF ILS, not a P&S, and finally that is the point we defend. In this matter, anyone can produce all the jewels he wants, if they serve us for nothing it is useless game, for us waste of time.

1 upvote
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (Sep 13, 2012)

I would assume there are a few of us who don't buy a camera for "status"

0 upvotes
slncezgsi
By slncezgsi (Sep 12, 2012)

Interesting, very interesting. But I guess given the shape and very little space for thumb, this camera will not be easy to hold.

0 upvotes
petepictures
By petepictures (Sep 12, 2012)

It Has a few things of what I expected, but no interchangeable lenses and built in viewfinder. It should have been the big brother of the NEX with a range of fast lenses and fewer MP for better low light performance.
Thanx , not for me I am enjoying my film cameras so much.

0 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

you said it

0 upvotes
jennajenna
By jennajenna (Sep 12, 2012)

a canon 5d2 and 24-105L lens for Less price then this.

are you all nuts?

0 upvotes
Goodmeme
By Goodmeme (Sep 12, 2012)

Hmmm. I personally still prefer my 5dc with 35mm f2 to rangefinder style if it has poor battery and an add on viewfinder anyway. Unless I hear otherwise, it has superior battery life to this size camera class.

But the 24-105L is not a substitute because it is simply too large to be comfortable all the time for most people. Even the 5D with a pancake lens is a bit of a brute, and I'd definitely consider swapping it for a Fuji x100 style camera as soon as the battery life and focus are comparable.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 55 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 13, 2012)

That's like whining that a two seat Audi TT coupe or Porsche Boxter sports car is more expensive than a minivan or SUV which are much more practical.

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 12, 2012)

Big Kudos to Sony who are clearly on a role. I think this camera may sell well with serious street shooters, and perhaps the Vimeo HDSLR crowd.

That said, looking at all the cameras they released today, the camera that interests me the most is still the Fuji X-E1. The 35 1.4 is a remarkable lens. And after studying X-Pro1 files for the past week, there is something incredibly satisfying about the clean files from the X-Trans sensor.

However if Sony's new collapsible zoom is a good performer, I may have to finally pick up a NEX camera for video work.

2 upvotes
Blue Orca
By Blue Orca (Sep 12, 2012)

This RX1 very much reminds me the very 1st Walkman Sony introduced back in 1979. It was the very first time we had a very portable personal stereo, and now a very portable FF camera. I would love to own the Canon 1DX, but even if I can afford it, I just can't see myself carrying it with me on vacations.

I see this RX1 for two types of end users:

1. A backup camera for professionals shooting FF DSLR
2. Enthusiasts wanting FF in a very portable form factor, especially for low light shots

I agree it would be ideal if camera supported built-in EVF and interchangable lens. However, I would not want to sacrifice size for interchangable lens.

I can see myself using the RX1 as my primary camera, and my Pansonic GX1 m43 for UWA and longer zoom shots.

Well done Sony!

6 upvotes
Fullframer
By Fullframer (Sep 12, 2012)

I carry my D4 around on my vacations. usually with a small prime lens. 35mm, 50mm and 85mm. It's very manageable. I don't take my big F2.8 zooms.

The RX1 would not be my main camera. It would be when I wanted a camera with me and didn't want to take out the D4.

We still have to see how it' autofocus is. The low light IQ is a moot point if it's very slow to focus.

0 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

A second carry around camera needs to be pocketable, like the RX100. A street shooter wants any integrated VF to frame, and here an EVF is the better solution, it shows you what you get. This camera has none of it, no vf included, the OVF makes it much bulkier, and despite the small body, it is to think to carry in your pocket with ease. Then, do not forget the price, 2800 for a second use gadget ....sick

0 upvotes
Palpman
By Palpman (Sep 12, 2012)

I was about to buy a Nex-7 along with a Zeiss 24mm 1.8 (I'm not planning to use other lenses). This camera might change my mind. I'll wait to see sample shots and low light performance.

A Nex-7 body + Zeiss 24mm is about 2500$, for a few more bucks you get FF and a lighter system. Excellent for backpacking. Only thing, too bad the Nex 5 optional EVF is not compatible with this camera... and 179$ for the lens hood is simply too much. I don't mind the price of the camera itself, while not being a bargain it's not over-expensive either (predicting a superb IQ), but the accessories' prices are a ridiculous.

Looking forward to reading the reviews.

1 upvote
Gesture
By Gesture (Sep 12, 2012)

Yes, include the hood. Sure, folks buying this can afford the accessory price. It's the mindset that is more "insulting."

1 upvote
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

if you buy the NEX-7 and discover it's possibilities, you will use other lenses. For the price of the Zeiss 24-1.5 you can buy 2 other huge lenses with adapters, even a better Zeiss or Voigtlaender lens, and use it like a manual VF camera. With the NEX-7 I found back my pleasure of taking photos. So, think about if a P&S is what you look for, even with a FF. If you are a Tourist taking pictures for the family album,it might be ok, but then, you can find other good cameras for much less money that make excellent shots for that purpose, like the Fuji x100

0 upvotes
migus
By migus (Sep 17, 2012)

While i deplore RX1's fixed lens at this price point (even 1/2 is steep for fixed), at least they picked arguably one of the best 35mm designs. I loved the Zeiss T* on my film Yashica T4, i had 3 of them, besides a bunch on Nikon gear. The T* T4 was always w/ me, and its scans are sharp.

0 upvotes
migus
By migus (Sep 12, 2012)

Sony must be commended for leading in sensors and innovative cameras. And i can't blame them for trying a 35-40% markup above the 'end target' for such a novelty.
Question is: Who'll break the 1K$ barrier for FF? Will it be a Rebel-like dSLR, or mirrorless?

4 upvotes
Simon97
By Simon97 (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm glad someone's pushing the envelope. At this rate, it will be "SoNikon" as Canon will slip to a distant third. Perhaps Canon has something coming. Nothing much so far...

3 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (Sep 12, 2012)

That's one tasty lens! I love the Zeiss compact+sharp+fast glass.

Tempting...

1 upvote
Ace Disgrace
By Ace Disgrace (Sep 12, 2012)

A lot of haters who complains about this breakthrough. its the fact that they admire it and want it so bad that they hate the price point because they know they will never have it. So they point out the bad things in order to make them feel better.

In reality a lot of the negative comments came from people who dont have the slightest idea about full frame, 35mm focal length and specially the magnificent leaf shutter.

Stick with your phone camera and instagram... oh wait lomography is laughing at you!

12 upvotes
Fullframer
By Fullframer (Sep 12, 2012)

Speak for yourself. I think it's rather poor that there is no optical view finder built in and we still don't know the autofocus or handling/speed, shot to shot yet. I can easily afford the RX1, I own a D4 with all pro glass/primes. for now I'm waiting to see if the price drops and a full review. I would buy one, but It's not worth $2,800 to me. There is a difference to not being able to afford and not justifying something.

0 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

Fullframer said it, I ow 6 DSLR's beside of the NEX-7 and will buy a NEX-6 now. It is not the question to be able to afford but rater to want to pay that price for something useless in your way.
Nobody will ever say that this technology and development is not stunning, it is and one can take the hats off when one sees this. But, it is not what the majority of people awaited. Most of us where expecting a FF NEX ILS system with a price tag around 1800$ lens included, not a P&S Tourist gadget. As Fullframer said, there is a difference to not being able to afford and not justifying something.
Same counts for the A99 where we awaited a dslr in a 1800$ tag with a 50 mm lens in the package, here too, Sony failed to give a satisfaction to the market and produced a HQ video camera that also makes photos for a price that is astonishing. Compare what you get, add 200$ and buy a D800.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Ace Disgrace
By Ace Disgrace (Sep 13, 2012)

Ha! listen to the both of you. rationalizing - defending his own rant. both of you should date and take your DSLR FF and take photos together, then upload them on instagram.

2 upvotes
RDCollins
By RDCollins (Sep 12, 2012)

I might be interested, even at that price, if it had optical zoom, but these days I just can't see buying a camera with a non-interchangeable 35mm lens. Simply not versatile enough to justify the outlay, IMHO.

1 upvote
km25
By km25 (Sep 12, 2012)

I just said this a few moments earlier in an other blog. Full frame, APC or 3/4. Megapixels or what ever. Is the camra part of a system. In the 1960's Canon and Nikon became the 35mm to have, the cameras had that new SLR viewing. It had good to excellent lens. But most of all and what all their ads would say was the SYSTEM. This is a great camera for Donald Trump. Film is good.

0 upvotes
Dylthedog
By Dylthedog (Sep 12, 2012)

Nice but £1000 more than I would spend on such a camera.

1 upvote
SDF
By SDF (Sep 12, 2012)

DPR preview, first paragraph - "We were surprised (and delighted) when Sony decided to create the RX100 - its first compact camera for serious photographers, but that's nothing compared to our surprise when we were told about the RX1. This isn't just Sony's most serious compact camera, but arguably the most serious compact camera we've ever seen." This is big coming from DPR.

2 upvotes
Digital Suicide
By Digital Suicide (Sep 12, 2012)

No. RX1 will compete in the FF segment. So if mighty RX100 among compacts got only silver award, RX1 in FF should get "paper medal" award.

3 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 12, 2012)

The RX100 the first serious compact? The Ricoh GRD III. The fact that the RX100 has a larger sensor DOES NOT make it a more serious camera, in fact the GRD has way more serious, and thoughtful controls - a grip and ergonomic control layout, hot-shoe, DOF calculations for all apertures, snap focus, optional viewfinder, etc.

I sold my RX100 within a week of having it. Great IQ and video, terrible ergonomics and controls. The GRD, X10, and even an XZ1 are much nicer cameras to shoot with.

3 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Sep 12, 2012)

If you read the quote, I said the RX100 was 'its' first compact for serious photographers, meaning Sony's.

We like the GRD's control system and regularly recognise it as one of the best serious interfaces on a compact camera. However, there's nothing in that quote that says anything about other brands' cameras.

5 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 12, 2012)

Sorry I misread the quote. Doh.

0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Sep 12, 2012)

I like it, but will not call it a Leica killer, If Sony was smart they would make this with interchangeable lens for M mount and add the adapter for A mount and E mount, now that would be a Leica rival.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (Sep 12, 2012)

More a "Leica X2 Killer" than a "Leica Killer".

0 upvotes
Jens_G
By Jens_G (Sep 13, 2012)

You can't add an adapter for E-mount to a Leica M mount, because the M mount has a longer flange distance than E-mount.

What you need is simply a FF Nex, with E-mount, which then accomodates M and A mount adapters.

I do believe it's coming.

1 upvote
jlabate
By jlabate (Sep 12, 2012)

In the DPR specs it shows no IS but in the specs on the Sony site, it shows IS.

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Sep 12, 2012)

We've checked and double-checked this. It has digital stabilization in video only. No stabilization for stills.

1 upvote
jlabate
By jlabate (Sep 12, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification.

0 upvotes
acidic
By acidic (Sep 12, 2012)

My cell phone has a fixed camera lens, and it costs a fraction of what this Sony costs. And it can also make phone calls. Sort of.

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Sep 12, 2012)

And it has a fraction of the IQ.

1 upvote
kayone
By kayone (Sep 12, 2012)

What is the point of your comment?

0 upvotes
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

Kind of like saying. 'nice Bugatti but my Prius also has 4 wheels'

3 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

compare what is comparable, Dude

0 upvotes
Tape5
By Tape5 (Sep 12, 2012)

Trends within the world of photo-videography are being accurately guessed by Sony. The most important feature of this camera is not electronic at all. It is Sony telling the industry that it can produce engineering solutions with meaningful results and with great speed. frightening speed.

It looks highly aggressive. Sensors to give away to competition at a higher MP than their own flagships, lenses all over the shop ( including some very nice video lenses ), tiny this, fast that, FS 100, 700, VG, etc ...

Sony's steps have the quality of a giant's foot size. Soon if they remain at it, we will have supervideos , with ridiculous frame rates and resolutions so photographers end up doing a video burst for every photo take with all the advantages that it will bring. From here it is all memory and speed.

3 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

i think it IS worth the money, but its a sony, so: NOOOO :)

1 upvote
Ace Disgrace
By Ace Disgrace (Sep 12, 2012)

I said the same thing years ago... with a big laugh! Now im a proud owner of many Sony's imaging products. And please dont start with me with Canon or Nikon i got a whole cabinet of em gathering dust. Being a fan boy will not bring you anywhere, being open minded and embracing the technology might make your life easier. peace.

6 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

Saying No to Sony is ignorance, false beliefs. Sony is a Market leader in video and imaging and what ever you buy as a camera, you can have 85% chances that you shoot with Sony. So, better don't buy anything. Sony makes the best images sensors, but is not able to make a rubber grip that sticks on the body of a NEX-7. Fortunately, Bulldog super glue has a solution for that. This RX1 is a Sony, it is real high class technology, unfortunately it is a useless gadget for most of us.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Sep 12, 2012)

Been several hours since I picked up this story (and commented) and I still think its a great move by Sony - BUT way too expensive, even if this is a Leica killer its simply not worth $2800 or £2800 (here in the UK we always have the pleasure of paying far for our toys than our friends across the pond) as the natural question is: When is the version with interchangable lenses due ? Second - the Sony brand simply doesn't carry anything like the power of Canon or Nikon let alone Leica. I strongly suspect this is a flagship model designed to lift the brand more than actual sales. Roll on the much cheaper Nikon version complete with Nikkor lens.

0 upvotes
Tape5
By Tape5 (Sep 12, 2012)

Surely the price must be at least this high for the champion that takes the title as a Leica killer.

0 upvotes
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (Sep 12, 2012)

To put this into some kind of perspective, that Zeiss lens alone sells for $1100. Adding a 24 megapixel full-frame camera to it for $1700 is not half-bad. ;)

My take is that this is what the Leica X2 *should* have been.

1 upvote
guyfawkes
By guyfawkes (Sep 12, 2012)

But don't overlook that Canon and Nikon have each over 6 decades under their belt. Sony has not yet had 1. And Nikon uses Sony sensors, don't they?

0 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

you are wrong, Sony is just a Tag that hides Minolta, and Minolta lived as long as Canon and Nikon before Sony bought it. The Minolta factory is a separate part of Sony and has absolutely nothing in common with Sony's P&S manufacture, despite that some technologies and developments are in these days made with common talks and point of view among both branches. Sony's high end cameras are Minoltas.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 12, 2012)

It seems DPR never introduce the other famous cameras like ALPA.
I know ALPA of Switzerland just presented at Photokina 2012 its latest model: the ALPA 12 FPS.
Will DPR talk something about that?

3 upvotes
FTW
By FTW (Sep 12, 2012)

Alpa is a system that allows any of the popular lenses to be used since you get adapters for Nikon, Canon and others, then it takes any of the commercial 6x4,5 digital backs, Hassy, Phase one and so on. It is an expensive system for Pros use, but, as you said, it would be nice if DPR would at least show us what it looks like, even make a test some day. I do not think that this kind of material is fitting in the commercial big market range that DPR opens to us every day. I have not seen a test report of a 60 mpix Hasselblad on DPR until now, so why should there be any Alpa test.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 13, 2012)

You can go to the following web for the images and details of the camera:

http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2012/alpa-12-fps-introduction.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Press+Release++Newsletter+September+2012&utm_content=Press+Release++Newsletter+September+2012+CID_aa1f717f4e85e23799ac332806f7c7e4&utm_source=Email+marketing+software&utm_term=PRESS+MATERIAL+ALPA+12+FPS

0 upvotes
farrukh
By farrukh (Sep 12, 2012)

Not that I can afford one but a flip rear screen would have been that much more interesting for me :)

1 upvote
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

You are so clearly not the target demographic for this thing that it isn't even funny. Flip screen....pfff. Yeah, there's no 40x zoom either...bummer.

1 upvote
brdeveloper
By brdeveloper (Sep 12, 2012)

The main reason why I'd buy a FF mirrorless camera would be using my Canon FD lenses without any crop factor. But this way manufacturers wouldn't sell lenses, so only a not-so-mainstream manufacturer will build such a device. Also, would be nice a film roll sensor. A full frame sensor-in-a-roll will mean freedom for all that excellent old film cameras we have.

Otherwise, a Panasonic LX7 is a way better compromise than this Sony monster. Or maybe a Sigma DP Merrill to the ones who love Velvia-like color response.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
bargello
By bargello (Sep 12, 2012)

They don't want us to use our superb full frame lenses on modern bodies...

0 upvotes
ianimal
By ianimal (Sep 12, 2012)

We have RX100 and RX1 now. Maybe there will be a RX10 with APS-C sensor? I would prefer a 16-50mm F2.8 retractable power zoom lens with such a camera. Don't know if that is possible. I guess Sony will make it small and select the lens spec. to get it as small as they want. If a RX10 will ever be made. The RX1 is charming, remains me of 80's-90's small 35mm film cameras with fixed 35mm lens.

1 upvote
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

Dear god no, no God, NO.
The RX 100 already has a zoom, why ruin the RX 10 as well?
Give it a 24mm (36mm equivalent) prime that will be sharper and more compact than the gargantuan, soft, slow zoom you're proposing.

If Sony sells the RX10 for $1000 they will selll millions.

3 upvotes
ianimal
By ianimal (Sep 12, 2012)

Ain't there already a Fujifilm X100? I want it with a zoom, maybe Sony should made a poll and ask the customers. Or just press "Like" on your message if people want fixed lens RX10 or press "Like" on this message if people want RX10 with zoom. Good luck.

4 upvotes
Digital Suicide
By Digital Suicide (Sep 12, 2012)

RX10 with APS-C would be a cannibalizm of their own NEX series.

0 upvotes
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

@ ianimal: The Fuji X100 is larger than the RX1. That means that an RX10 with a 35mm equivalent lens can be even more compact than the RX1.

Most people would've preferred a zoom lens on the RX1, but most people are stupid.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

@DS: RX10 APS with a fixed prime wouldn't canibalise Nex, RX10 with zoom would.

Comment edited 41 seconds after posting
1 upvote
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

noooo give it a 50 1.8 or 28 2

please no zoom, and please no evf, keep the hotshoe

could it be that a lot of the lens length is because its an adapted slr lens with a tube instead of a thicker body?

0 upvotes
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

My only complaint is that the lens is slightly bulky for the body form factor - give us a 23/2.8 APS-C RX10 the size of the RX100, for $1k! Come on Sony, Do it!

3 upvotes
Jack A. Zucker
By Jack A. Zucker (Sep 12, 2012)

even if they did, why would you want it from sony? It'd just be dumbed down and incompatible with every well known, standard accessory. I'm surprised sony doesn't have their own custom tripod mount.

1 upvote
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

Are you kidding me??? Most of us have been BEGGING for a full frame compact and you are asking for APS-C???? Are you out of your mind?? You want APS-C, buy one of the many options already out there like an X100, X2 etc etc. THIS RX1 camera is what many of us have been waiting for.

8 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 12, 2012)

Clint Dunn, good point!

2 upvotes
brendon1000
By brendon1000 (Sep 12, 2012)

@Jack - For what its worth, Sony has been reducing its propriety nature for some time now. For instance the data cable was some propriety s%$t that was used by Minolta.

It was with a big surprise that I found a standard mini USB cable bundled with my new A55. It was even more strange since Sony was only making money selling these propriety cables. Now I will buy a local brand mini USB rather than spend more $$$ for the Sony branded version.

Similarly they have moved to the standard hotshoe. Now many third party manufacturers may start releasing ISO mount flashes for Sony.

1 upvote
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

@Clint Dunn Why the hell can't Sony make both?

3 upvotes
misha
By misha (Sep 12, 2012)

How would it be different from the already announced NEX-6 or NeX-5 - which also have the advantage of removable lenses?

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
malcolm82
By malcolm82 (Sep 12, 2012)

A 23/2 lens for aps-c can easily fit in the RX100, I am sure it could be made significantly smaller actually, so why would you want a 2.8?
The only reason this RX1 is so big is because the lens is not retractable, it could be less than 50mm in depth with a retractable lens.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

@jack zucker: ABSOLUTELY RIGHT question

its nice its worth the money, if it would be a nikon or even a coanon, or a pentax or a lot of other companies

but sony is the all time champion on my dont buy list
together with samsung, panasonic olympus and sadly fuji

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 13, 2012)

Then you missed a lot of fun!
The range of Sony products is huge... From a low-end Cyber Shot to the top professional F65... you can get from Sony.

0 upvotes
Jens_G
By Jens_G (Sep 13, 2012)

@Misha It would be different from Nex because it could actually be SHIRT POCKETABLE.
Nex isn't shirt pocketable.
Fuji X100 isn't shirt pocketable.
RX1 isn't shirt pocketable.

23mm APS RX10 could be shirt pocketable. <- That's the point.

1 upvote
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

The more I think about it, the more this makes sense.
Sensors have gotten good enough that it isn't necessary to upgrade bodies every 3 years (hell, my 5D Mark I is still going strong).

35mm on FF is my favourite focal length by far, and my first choice for a fixed focal length camera.

11 upvotes
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

Now just please please please give us a more compact, more affordable APS-C version, also with a 35mm equivalent prime!

2 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

no please make it a focal length we dont allready have ina small fixed bodie (x100)

make it a speedy 50, i know a lot of guys like 35mm, but there are also guys like me that cant stand this focal length.

i like 28 and 50, there is no decent 28 besides the gxr and no fast fifty at all, so please make a fast fifty :)

0 upvotes
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 13, 2012)

Nope, Sorry. 35mm is *THE* fixed focal length camera focal length.
Until they start pulling Nokia pureview shenanigans with 160MP FF sensors. Then we can have 24, 35, 50, and 80 with a "fixed" prime.

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Sep 12, 2012)

You really have to love the 35mm focal length, exclusively, for this to make sense. They'll either have to made a wide model or an interchangable lens model at some point.

1 upvote
Jan Kritzinger
By Jan Kritzinger (Sep 12, 2012)

I really DO love 35mm fov. If people want wide or zoom, Nex is the answer.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

they have it, its called nex

0 upvotes
justmeMN
By justmeMN (Sep 12, 2012)

Whatever the merits of this camera, it's nice to see Sony releasing interesting products. Both Canon and Nikon need a competitive kick, to get them going.

9 upvotes
SDF
By SDF (Sep 12, 2012)

Why am I kept looking at this RX1 preview when I know I will not able to afford. I hate my life.

6 upvotes
PowerG9atBlackForest
By PowerG9atBlackForest (Sep 12, 2012)

Did you really mean "I hate my life" or "I hate my wife?" ;-)

4 upvotes
bargello
By bargello (Sep 12, 2012)

We want a FF mirrorless interchangeable lens camera because there's plenty of FF reflex manual focus lenses from the past that will work fine with adapters. The distance from the sensor will be enough to avoid lighting problems.
This camera is nice but far away from a blast.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
washyshots
By washyshots (Sep 12, 2012)

My Opinion:

The prime lenses offer the ultimate in photographic optical quality, and in addition a prime lenses at any distance to subject provides a fixed perspective which, in turn, ultimately forces the photographer to move in relation to the subject — and so on - etc etc!

So I think this camera is aimed at those type of photographers. Still I just don't get the big lens on a tiny body aesthetic - seems pointless to me.

1 upvote
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

why would someone that wants a ff camera care for zooms anyway? ^^

if i have ff in my mind, i dont understand why someone would think a zoom would make sens. APSC, well ok that makes kind of sens, with a zoom, but if you would like a ff sensor you need fast lenses, and no, 2.8 is NOT fast, its just fast for a zoom.

i think nowadays the question of apsc or ff is purely optical, which means either you want that extra thin depth of field or not. its not about quality its not about noise or pixelcount.

somif you WANT ff, you want shallow dof, but if you want that, why would you take a zoom? first pay the extra to buy a bigger sensor, and then take a slower lens? probably fixed, so you stuck with it for the rest of the cameras life?

makes absolutely no sens to me

0 upvotes
Joachim Gerstl
By Joachim Gerstl (Sep 12, 2012)

Don't get me wrong. This is a hell of a camera. Thank you Sony for proofing it is possible but with a second though I think it will lack the shooting experience you get with a Fuji X100 or X1Pro.

That is my conclusion in my blog:

With the RX1 Sony has created a "state of the art masterpiece in technology" - body, it's a tour de force without doubt but I think they missed out to give it some soul. I'm not sure if shooting with it will give you the same warm feeling you get when shooting a Fuji X100.

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (Sep 12, 2012)

"Tour de force"? "Warm feeling"? Are there sample images somewhere that would lead to any conclusion about how useful this thing is? As for warm feelings, I'd say the tool that fits your uses will be the source of whatever warm feelings one needs or desires.
This is a scalpel, and one whose quality and usefulness has yet to be determined. For those in need of a knife this particular tool will do nothing but yield cold chills.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Sep 12, 2012)

I have no idea what these warm feeling/cold chill comments mean. But I agree with them.

0 upvotes
gl2k
By gl2k (Sep 12, 2012)

$599 for the optical viewfinder

Very self confident.

2 upvotes
ianimal
By ianimal (Sep 12, 2012)

"Only" $450 for OVF. The EVF is $599. I guess you will find other options for much less.

0 upvotes
ryansholl
By ryansholl (Sep 12, 2012)

Not hard to imagine ultra-cheap third party options for an optical viewfinder popping up in the coming weeks.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

those zeiss viewfinders had this price tag long before this camera appeared :)

0 upvotes
Ace Disgrace
By Ace Disgrace (Sep 12, 2012)

No worries China is on the move now for third party viewfinder...lol!

0 upvotes
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

Voigtlander sells the awesome 35mm, brightframe, VF for $210. Who cares about the $600 Sony optical VF.

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Sep 12, 2012)

I know dpr cannot compare this Sony RX1 to Pana GF1 w/20mm f1.7 lens, but I can. Further still, dpr studio pics from Fuji X-Pro1 did not turn me on and consequently Fuji X-E1 is a yawn.

The reason everybody sees Leica as the "target" is because of their envious profit margin and the consequent "it's just like Leica except less expensive" story line. We saw that with Mercedes vs Lexus, too.

So I say Sony has to *earn* the price they want for this while my standard is the GF1.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

but you know that leica m9(p) and this sony is the only compact ff camera? panasonic gf1 ?? are you kidding mFT is not even in the same sports as FF hehe

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Sep 15, 2012)

Try haha -- it's more masculine

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Sep 12, 2012)

From the preview: "Leica, for instance, has a name and reputation that leaves customers willing to pay considerably more than most other companies could charge."

Not for educated customers, no.

2 upvotes
liquidsquid
By liquidsquid (Sep 12, 2012)

Sheesh, if you separated the body from the glass, and made separate purchases, many of you who don't want to shell out $2800 would be singing a different tune.

How much good glass out there goes for over $1K? How many FF bodies go over $1K?

Not that I am going to get one any time soon.

2 upvotes
BelDDB
By BelDDB (Sep 12, 2012)

Sony's famous greedy pricing policy such as debute of PS3, and we shall see ...

0 upvotes
zos xavius
By zos xavius (Sep 12, 2012)

Belddb: the ps3 was sold at a loss intially. They also have to recoup costs somewhere as there won't be any additional lens sales....in case you didn't know, ff cameras are often sold very near cost with the anticipation you will buy system lenses and accesories. Simple economics and economy of scale. If they expected to sell millions of these the price would likely be lower. Instead they will probably sell thousands or tens of thousands.

2 upvotes
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

Liquid squid is right....if you bought the lens and body separately you would pay at least $2800. As an example...the Zeiss 35mm f2 Biogon for Leica mount is $1100 by itself.....
Quit being cheap people...you want quality...you pay!

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

second that, if you want the best in the smallest package you just have to pay for it

no one told you to buy it, or sony to make a price so that everyone could afford it.

beeing FF this is definitely a flagship model for sony, also its for 35mm lovers, their next possibility is a FF dslr and 35mm lens, also not that much cheaper.

you really have to understand, that some camera concepts are for certain people only, there is no "best camera"
if that would have a zoom lens, i tell you i would not even have clicked on the thumbnail of this article for example

so this camera is made for people that are willing to spend 3k to have a FF with a zeiss 35 f2 in their pocket all the time

if it would be a 28 or 50 i would start saving money right now :)

1 upvote
JensR
By JensR (Sep 12, 2012)

You are right. If this was a camera with interchangeable lenses, many here would be prepared to pay more than 2800USD. But it's not. And I think that's why several people are a bit unhappy.

0 upvotes
jaycob
By jaycob (Sep 12, 2012)

First off let me just say that I am no expert in photography so please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject.
My question about this camera is; Why would Sony develop such an great camera at a premium price yet slap a fixed lens on it? You would think that if they were to put a full frame sensor in any kind of camera they would want to open the doors to additional lenses.
Am I missing something? Please educate me.

3 upvotes
zos xavius
By zos xavius (Sep 12, 2012)

Because people like fixed lenses and wanted a ff fixed lens for a long time? For a 2nd camera this would be awesome to most people. Different cameras for different purposes. If ilc so so important to you, there are a wealth of options. If you want a ff fixed lens, you have one. Clearly sony sees a market. Not every camera has to be a dslr.

1 upvote
SDF
By SDF (Sep 12, 2012)

Because Sony build this camera around the great 35mm F2 Zeiss lens and the full frame sensor.

3 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Sep 12, 2012)

There are two separate questions there. (1) They are using a fixed focal length because (I might as well say it) the vast majority of zoom lenses are poor, at wide angle in the corners--and people buying this camera will notice). (2) Why not interchanglable lenses? Because they can optimize the perforance of a particular lens + sensor combination. Unfortunately, this is a lot of money for a camera with a 35mm lens and no other options. You buy this because you want to travel light and you find yourself in a small room or you want a sunset with a big sun and you're out of luck.

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Sep 12, 2012)

If you are familiar with the film cameras, you would know 35mm (full frame) format is nothing special to either SLR or rangefinder film cameras. Lens interchangeable is definitely not a consideration. People consider 24mm x 36mm is the best format for compact cameras (compared with 6x6, 4x5 or 8x10). That's the reason why the formats like 110, 124, APS were not successful in the film era.

1 upvote
Ace Disgrace
By Ace Disgrace (Sep 12, 2012)

Simplicity or minimalism might be the key. in a few months we might be hearing another breakthrough with lens adapters. Sony is a huge company and the marketing staff will not let you just buy the RX-1 and get on with your life, they will have something else to make the user experience with the RX1 better.

0 upvotes
Reg Natarajan
By Reg Natarajan (Sep 12, 2012)

If people liked fixed lenses, then there would be more of them on the market. I totally agree with the question raised by jaycob. I would be a serious candidate to buy this thing if it had a decent zoom. I have no interest in fixed lens cameras.

0 upvotes
JensR
By JensR (Sep 12, 2012)

I think it's testing the water for a future FF "NEX deluxe" (I call dibs on the name NEXluxe :D )

0 upvotes
mike kobal
By mike kobal (Sep 12, 2012)

looks perfect to me. a pocketable Plaubel Makina :) bummer flash sync only up to 1/250 with this leaf shutter. I will wait for the RX1 PRO.

1 upvote
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Sep 12, 2012)

We've been told 1/2000th. Where have you seen 1/250th?

0 upvotes
mike kobal
By mike kobal (Sep 13, 2012)

scroll down-first impressions
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/09/12/first-impressions-sony-cybershot-rx-1/

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Sep 12, 2012)

Interesting camera. Not for me, but not a bad camera.

It would probably be much, MUCH more useful for landscape, architecture and interior photography if it would be 28mm instead of 35mm. You can digitally zoom in a little, but you cannot digitally zoom out.
And speaking about digital zoom - the integrated prime lens is almost certainly sharp enough in the center for much, much higher resolution sensor, which could provide higher digital zoom range while maintaining reasonable resolution. At least 36Mpix sensor form D800 should have been used (it is Sony's anyway). As it is now, at 1.4x it is still the best fixed lens camera out there (with bigger that APS-C 12mpix sensor area), but at 2x it is equal to just 6 mpix m43 with f/2.0 lens, and at 3x to Fuji X10 downsampled to 2.6 mpix. It probably would not be able to keep 5 fps with the current Bionz, but it is not a sports camera anyway.

I bet if they are smart they will do it in RX2 (or even RX1L).

Comment edited 26 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
gsum
By gsum (Sep 12, 2012)

A 35mm lens is OK for landscapes when coupled with PTGUI or similar. With a bit of overlap, a four shot stitched image has a similar angle of view to that of a 20 to 24mm lens, and you can re-focus between shots, increasing DoF.

0 upvotes
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

Landscapes??? Nah...this is a street shooting machine.
With that said...it would fit nicely in a jacket for hiking...and you could always stitch...

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting
1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (Sep 12, 2012)

No, you cannot stitch a good picture in real world, when winds blow and leaves shuffle and people walk etc etc.

0 upvotes
Clint Dunn
By Clint Dunn (Sep 12, 2012)

Peeves.....I can email you a hundred examples of world, class stitched landscape images that would blow your mind....but google is your friend.

1 upvote
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (Sep 12, 2012)

2008: You can't put a FF sensor into a four thirds sized body. Its PHYSICS!
2012: Shut up internet.

7 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Sep 12, 2012)

I don't remember anyone saying that. The demand and market for such a camera was and is being questioned.

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Sep 12, 2012)

I remember when people were declaring that 35mm FF was *dead*!

7 upvotes
Dylthedog
By Dylthedog (Sep 12, 2012)

I think the comments mostly say you can put a FF sensor in M43 sized body but then the lenses get too big to make the small body worth having; not that you can't actually do it.

I think Sony have proven that right which is why this has a fixed lens and it's not a system camera.

2 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Sep 12, 2012)

i think a lot of the lens is just a tube that gives the actual lens more distance to the sensor without making the body thicker

0 upvotes
zapatista
By zapatista (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm really happy that Sony kept the "Cyber-shot" moniker, further establishing a very distinguished brand identity and justifying the $2,800 price.

1 upvote
two_stanley
By two_stanley (Sep 12, 2012)

stick a Leica logo on this badboy and everyone would claim it to be the greatest camera ever!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 39 seconds after posting
6 upvotes
zapatista
By zapatista (Sep 12, 2012)

Nah, Leicas don't have focus peaking...and yes I do understand how a real rangefinder focuses :P.

1 upvote
gsum
By gsum (Sep 12, 2012)

Everyone? I don't think so. Whilst the M9 is a great gimmick-free rangefinder, it doesn't have a state-of-the-art sensor as does this Sony.

1 upvote
SDF
By SDF (Sep 12, 2012)

I cannot wait to stick my Tom Abrahamsson's Red soft release button on the RX1 :)

0 upvotes
kennyv9000
By kennyv9000 (Sep 12, 2012)

This camera will sell very well in Japan and China market, they got plenty money to burn. People whose pocket not deep enough always have an excuse, this camera is certainly not for you, go back to where you belong and stick with it...

2 upvotes
Joo Prates
By Joo Prates (Sep 12, 2012)

Dear DPReview,

Suggestion: how about a different colour, other than black, in Richard Buttler clothes; in the video, a black camera with a black blackground? it's just a suggestion. JP

Comment edited 40 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
ryansholl
By ryansholl (Sep 12, 2012)

Lime green is an obvious choice :)

0 upvotes
Total comments: 558
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