Just Posted: Canon EOS 650D / EOS Rebel T4i review: Digital Photography Review

I wonder how many flapping screens have broken off with this little camera and other similar? Please keep the cameras large Canon, like my great new 7D! The photo above says much with those huge hands!

0 upvotes

I've just been viewing the Studio Shot Comparison of the 650D here on DPR and it is strangely soft at ISO1600 in Raw and the noise looks quite smeared. All the other ISOs look much sharper, including those above 1600.

Are you sure there was no NR applied accidentally to the ISO1600 Raw?

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Those samples are so soft, even the ACR ones. Outside of cameras like the Sigmas, Leicas and the Nikon 800e there seems to be no desire to improve the image detail in cameras. It's always about high iso. It's a shame one has to spend much more to get better image detail from their camera.

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Why isn't there a "DISLIKE" button to hit, DPR? Seems we either 'LIKE' it or ??? what we read here regarding comments.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

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Because dislike buttons are invariably abused. Imagine every Nikon/Canon fan hitting dislike for every post that says something negative about their side or positive about the other or interpersonal problems that cause one person to always dislike a comment made by a certain other person. It would cause more augments and require more moderation than it would be worth.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

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Way to go dpreview for deleting my post about there not being a dislike button due to the madness of political correctness. The same madness that caused you to delete my post.

Do liberals like free speech? Sure, as long as they agree with it, otherwise it is censored. So much for being liberal, huh?

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Keep politics out of it. What's with the name calling? Go back to listening to Rush.

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"What the 650D does have in its favor though is the new MultiShot NR setting which provides a genuinely useful method of controlling noise, albeit it in scenes that don't contain moving subjects."

I still don't get how it is useful. If you can afford to shoot 4 exposures and then wait several seconds for in-camera processing, you can afford to shoot with longer exposure and Dark Frame Subtraction at base ISO - it will be faster and produce better results.

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From the page 20: "There is also a slider to indicate the subject distance the image was taken at which helps optimizing the distortion correction. "

What, Canon does not include the focus plane distance into the RAW metainfo?

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From the review: "Although touchscreen interfaces are becoming more common on mirrorless models, the EOS 650D is the first 35mm format DSLR to include this technology"

How is it 35mm?

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Amended it to 35mm-style DSLR. We are making the (admittedly subtle) distinction between MF SLR camera combos that offer touchscreen capability.

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I'm sure that there will still be plenty of folks bemoaning Canon's perceived lack of technical prowess 8 to 9 months from now when the company celebrates the production of its 90 millionth lens milestone. It's amazing how we overlook the fact that people have been buying more Canon Rebels year in and year out for more than 20 years than they have of most of Canon's competitors' entire DSLR annual product output. The camera definitely has a huge and loyal customer base. But, of course it's only natural for folks to knock number 1. We all do it. It's fun.

2 upvotes

I think that critics aren't saying that a Rebel isn't adequate, it is. The problem that they are talking about is that Canon is no longer a leader in innovation. Remember the days of old when Canon pioneered IS, EOS system was ahead of competition when it was launched. Fanboys need to feel passionate about their gear, its an emotional thing. Sadly this Rebel fails to inspire. I shot Canons professionally for over 5 years. Now that I no longer work in photography, I have sold all of my Canon gear and bought an OMD and couple of primes. Superior quality at fraction of the size / weight.

3 upvotes

"Sadly this Rebel fails to inspire."

What Rebel has *ever* inspired? Rebels are an entry-way into the Canon EOS system. That's what their purpose is. They aren't meant to be on the leading edge of the photography industry.

But having said that, I think there will be plenty of consumers who will be happy to buy a Rebel as an entry into the Canon EOS system, and will appreciate the multi-touch rear LCD. While gearheads may obsess about the minutae of sensor comparisons, I think most consumers are going to be a lot more interested in using the rear LCD. Sure, that may not appeal the the photography "purists", but the Rebel was never a camera geared towards photography "purists" in the first place! It's a camera geared towards the consumer...the same consumers that are flocking to multi-touch smart phones and tablets.

1 upvote

At the time there are no APS-C Canon bodies that are on the cutting edge of technology... 7D is 3 years old, it was ok when it was released, but time goes by while Canon stands still. The problem is that Canon isn't COOL anymore. It doesn't make IT cameras (not counting FF). When camera company needs an apologist to defend its lack of high tech... When a company looses enthusiast market other market segments will soon follow (it will not happen overnight of course). Here's an example. When any of my friends are looking to buy a new camera, they always ask me (an enthusiast). I haven't been advising for several years. Enthusiast influence the rest of demographics. Canon is ripe for disruption. After a bit of browsing I found this: http://www.oocities.org/phanbusters/
@T3 I used to be a Canon fanboy just like you, but then I got a Rebel in the knee:)

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1 upvote

@Maxim_C - LOL, I don't remember when Canon was *ever* cool. What are you smoking? Nikon was always the "cool" camera company! Plus, I think you're a bit self-delusional if you think you're such a big influencer in the camera market. Besides, keep in mind that people have been predicting Canon's demise for the last ten years. It's the same old broken record *every* year and with *every* camera model that Canon releases. It's almost become a sport now. But frankly, I think Canon has a better understanding of the camera market than the average internet forum yahoo does. Of course, everyone likes to think that they know how to run a company better. It makes them feel important. That's just human nature! And ten years from now, there will be another Maxim_C declaring "Canon isn't COOL anymore! They're done for!" Like I said, same old broken record from the same old self-important internet yahoos. Deja vu all over again.

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In the meantime, check out Amazon's "Hot New Releases in Digital SLR Cameras" list where Rebel T4i takes 4 of the first 5 spots. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting the facts.

http://tinyurl.com/cehuvv2

#1. Canon EOS REBEL T4i 18.0 MP CMOS Digital Camera with 18-135mm EF-S IS STM Lens
#2. Canon EOS REBEL T4i 18.0 MP CMOS Digital Camera with 3-inch Touchscreen and Full HD Movie Mode (Body Only)
#3. Canon EOS Rebel T4i 18.0 MP CMOS Digital SLR with 18-55mm EF-S IS II Lens
#5. Canon EOS Rebel T4i (Body Only) 18-megapixel Digital SLR with 8GB SDHC Memory Card

Sorry, Maxim_C, but in your infinite wisdom, maybe you missed the idea that some people actually think the multi-touch LCD on the Rebel T4i is "cool"? Maybe you're not as big of an "enthusiast influence" as you think you are? Maybe Canon understands the camera market a bit better than you do? Maybe you're yet another internet yahoo prematurely predicting Canon's demise? Something to consider.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

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I return in my infinite wisdom:) Hot new releases list is artificially skewed toward Newly released cameras, and T4i being the latest recently released DSLR takes top places. On the other hand if we take a look at total DSLR sales, a different situation takes place: http://tinyurl.com/co643wo

1. Canon EOS Rebel T3i
2. Nikon D800
3. Nikon D5100
4. Nikon D3100
5. Canon EOS Rebel T3

As you see T4i fails to make to the top 5 in overall sales:)
Don't worry, I am not self delusional and don't consider myself a great influencer, I was merely giving an example of human behavior where enthusiast end up influencing purchasing decisions of others. And "congratulations" on your 16K posts, who's an internet yahoo after all...

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First of all, I don't think the T4i is doing too shabby at #7, especially since it's at full retail price compared to its sister models that have been discounted. Secondly, it's clear that there are a LOT of Canon DSLRs on that list, so I don't think it's rational to be predicting Canon's doom just yet! LOL! Thirdly, I don't see many Oly m4/3 bodies on that list. Do you? Fourthly, how much do you want to bet that by the end of the year the T4i will be within the top 5?

And finally, Canon generally does not "lead in innovation" with their Rebel models! That's what models like the 1DX are for. And it's "COOL" models like the 1DX, capturing "COOL" Olympic photos like those captured at the London Olympics, that continue to give Canon the "COOL" factor. Same goes for Nikon. Call us when Reuters or Sports Illustrated switches to Oly m4/3! LOL.

BTW, I also gladly defend against internet yahoos who predict Nikon's imminent doom, too.

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Haha, good point. On the other hand the reason that OMD isn't on the list is that Oly can't make enough of them to satisfy the demand. Its been only a week since OMD became more or less in stock on Amazon.
I am not spelling Canon's doom or anything so dramatic. I am sure that they will be fine down the road. Neither I am arguing that Canon's are somehow inadequate ( I have photographed plenty of weddings with 7d, 40d, 30d and other older models before that) as far as professional photography goes, equipment has never been the major factor. Its photographer's skill, experience and imagination what makes great photos. I am merely being nostalgic for time when I loved my Rebel 2000 and 28-135 IS setup. That lens was best bang for the buck in the consumer segment for several years. I just want to be excited about new Canon tech, but instead of innovating they have been playing it safe lately.

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Maybe your nostalgia as passed, but I can assure you that there are many young photographers who are living and creating their own future nostalgia with their new Rebel T4i's and 18-135IS's today. People forget that Canon still have an enormously strong heritage, and a huge lens system, and a massive pro usership that a lot of these younger photographers, just starting off with their new Rebels, aspire to be one day. They aren't so jaded as you are, and they see nothing but potential with their new Canon cameras, while you might only see anger, disappointment, and despair (for whatever reason). Just don't poison their minds with your jaded attitude. Leave them to enjoy their passion and optimism just like you were able to do when you were their age.

BTW, people have *always* complained that Canon were "playing it safe" for as long as I can remember. Maybe it's just that Canon likes to play it *smart*, which is why they continue to be such a strong company after so many years.

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@T3 you are wasting yourself on DPReview:) "anger, disappointment, and despair" you should be writing bad fiction instead! Instead of "poisoning their minds" i'm pointing them in a direction of better deal. Photographic potential can be discovered with any camera, so why not spend the money wisely. As far as playing it safe, actually you are right, back in the days it was Minolta who was introducing new tech into their bodies (such as laser focus assist etc).

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Maxim...you ought to go into politics. You're comparing apples to oranges. The T4 hasn't been on the market anywhere near as long as the cameras in the top five. Clearly the T4 is a big improvement over the T3. yet the T3 beats the T4! You try to slide that by everyone? And you say you're not self delusional. Maybe not but you have no trouble using stats that are totally misleading. Especially when you show the model that precedes the T4 as having sold more units! That's just absurd.

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting

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Crud. Bad news for Canon EOS-M AF speed.

4 upvotes

Great review! No surprises, and none expected for this little wonder camera that has been the prime mover for those 80 million Canon EOS lenses produced over the last 25 years. Congratulations Canon!

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I am yet to see a Pro who is using NEX system. I am not sure if it is possible to produce a high quality work without good optical viewfinder. NEX in my humble opinion is a good pocket camera to carry around, but Iphone, if is not a match yet, but will be pretty soon. It is very difficult to compare a DSLR with multitude of lenses and a handy pocket camera. They are intended for different markets I guess.

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I'm a pro and why an optical viewfinder? The NEX has perfect viewfinders available.

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Hy,
Thanks for the review!
why is there a huge difference in "Movie / video mode" when I compare to T3i? 8 vs 12 points? video crop mode cannot be the reason for the whole can it?

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Friends don't let friends buy Rebels.

No, seriously, I would HATE to buy a Rebel (worst DSLR of 2012) today and in 6 (SIX!) days see, say, NEX-6 released, with (if the rumors are true) the wonderful Sony 16 mpix sensor with vastly superior IQ, fast Sony processor giving something like 10 fps (judging by NEX-5N and NEX-7) and better JPEG processing, on-sensor PDAF, pancake zoom, EVF providing clear preview of exposure and white balance settings (unlike any OVF, especially the dim pentamirror junk in Rebels not even providing a correct framing!), WiFi, in a package weighing half as much as the Rebel... for the same price or cheaper.

That would be really stupid, would it?

1 upvote

No, it wouldn't be.

IQ and features of the Canon are pretty sufficient to the most real world tasks. It's not like a better camera makes better shots.

Also, NEX native lens catalog is literally non-existent compared to the wealth of options available to the EF/EF-S cameras.

P.S. And do not get me started on NEX's UI.

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A NEX and a DSLR are two entirely different animals. Which someone should buy depends on what their personal requirements and priorities are.

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NEX lens selection is *weak*, especially compared to Canon's EF and EF-S lens selection. People buy into a lens system. Obviously, the Canon EF/EF-S lens system is a *bit* more mature and developed than NEX's. I think Sony should slow down on cranking out NEX bodies, and put a little more effort into cranking out NEX lenses because as appealing as some of these NEX bodies may be, a lot of potential NEX buyers are turned off by Sony's anemic NEX lens system.

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NEXs are fine cameras. But these belong to completely different category - DSLR vs compact body MILC. I don't really see the point of your post...

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NEX-6 is here just to illustrate the point of stupidity of buying a Rebel now. Different category? How so, the price is similar, viewfinder is there and it can take pictures. That one uses outdated technology does not make them totally incomparable.
And the point is - WHY would anybody buy the WORST current camera in it's price category? It is not even the cheapest - just the worst.

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Was going to reply intelligently to peevee1, realised it would be lost on him.

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Different category, because it simply IS a different category.
1. Compact body is not for everyone
2. EVF vs optical
3. Mirrorless -> slower AF (no PD in current models, the on-sensor PD effect on planned models questionable)
4. e-mount lenses (limited selection, more expensive) or reduction required

I like the NEX line but as I said it is different category, similar category from Canon's line would be EOS M.

Nex 6 is not even released, you have nothing but rumors about it's qualities or price. Nex 7's price tag is somewhere else.

1 upvote

I really wish review sites would stop pulling punches when it comes to Canon's stagnated sensor technology. No one is confronting this huge elephant in the room. Canon's sensors aren't just a little behind in the race, They are being lapped. Worse it appears Canon is either unwilling or much more likely unable to do anything about it. No one is confronting the very real possibility Canon has simply advanced their sensors as far as they can with current technology.

7 upvotes

Strangely why .... most wining images around the world has been take with a Canon cameras! Josh152 ...... is this a name of a new planet?

1 upvote

What is your source for this and what does it have to do with anything? Even if it is true it doesn't change the fact that Canon sensors lag far behind their competitors and the gap just keeps getting bigger.

Besides you can take an award winning photo with a $100 P&S so winning awards is hardly a good way to measure the quality of a camera sensor.

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Yeah, no one will ever be able to take any good pictures with this camera, LOL. Not! I think most people are too busy out taking great pictures with these cameras to worry about miniscule differences in sensor performance. I think for a lot of people, anal pixel peeping has become passe. These days, the biggest limitation isn't the sensors, but rather the person behind the camera.

There's more to photography than anal pixel peeping and obsessively comparing images at maximum magnification. In the REAL world, the differences are rather trivial. It's only on these equipment forums that are over-run by tech-heads like Josh152 (rather than true photographers) that these things become such an (overblown) issue.

In the audiophile world, it would be like people who obsess over differences in audio cables or amplifiers rather than enjoying the music!

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6 upvotes

T3, I have analyzed your post. Maybe you could re-phrase it? Certain things end up getting compulsive..

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting

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Nothing beats the color rendering of 5D Mk II, this sensor is way ahead of any other sensor

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It is not only about their sensors. They have problems with their processors too. They just (August 2012) released 2 cameras with maximum speed of 0.8 fps!

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The differences in dynamic range and shadow noise are not miniscule or trivial and do affect real world shooting and the results you can achieve, no pixel peeping required.

We get it T3, Canon can do no wrong and is the best no matter what. You can stop with your insulting, argumentative posts now.

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I agree Canon is behind, but "getting lapped" is quite a stretch.

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deleted.

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A lot of you gearheads live in an alternative universe compared to the average consumer photographer. The general photography shooting population isn't quite so obsessed about the small differences in performance between today's already excellent sensors. It's like car engines: most car buyers are far less interested in the nuanced differences of car engines from one manufacturer to another and more interested in things like the exterior, the interior, the cup holders, the brand reputation, etc.

Get over it, folks. If you can't take a great picture with a Rebel, the problem is more likely not with the camera but rather with the person behind the camera. I think that's what consumers are realizing these days. They know that today's DSLRs sensors are fairly mature technologies and so they aren't going to be so obsessively concerned about them as people like Josh152 are.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

1 upvote

@ Dpreview:

Please provide the Pentax K-30 review. can't wait to see the result to buy my next camera. am sure there are a lot of member over here who are waiting for this review. thx

5 upvotes

Why do all these cameras get the same score for viewfinders? I read the A67 review again and DPR says how much of "a revelation" the 2.4mp EVF is but then they turn around and give every entry-level DSLR I can find the same viewfinder score? I don't get it. Why give the T4i the same viewfinder score as the similarly priced A65 if you think the A65 has such an advantage in viewfinder?

3 upvotes

You neglect to mention that there has been no improvement in the sensor between the 650D and the 600D, 550D, 60D - they're all the same sensor. Absolutely the same IQ. And the 7D - the same IQ + banding.

6 upvotes

Check out the RAW image quality against the 550D, 7D and G1X. The 650D is WORSE than all three at high ISO. Odd

7 upvotes

Cons 4: "Using flash with Auto ISO enabled results in ISO 400 even in bright light conditions"

Shame to Canon for failing to implement better Auto ISO algorithm. I have seen the same tendency in my T2i. In bright day, ISO 400 is selected for no reason.

Auto ISO/(Manual ISO as well) should have at least 1/3EV finer increment like other exposure parameters, Aperture and Shutter speed. In bright light (or in any light), minimum possible values of ISO should be chosen (1/3EV increment).

Come on Canon, don't be lazy to implement it. Your processor is not that slow to handle little advanced algorithm. Its not hard to change the algorithm that dynamically choose ISO like Aperture or Shutter speed.

5 upvotes

The review DOESN'T recommend a Panasonic G3 or EPL-3 as it did in the conclusion of the Nikon D3200 review. Why the double standard since the both DSLRs were criticized for their slower LiveView performance? Perhaps in this case the reviewer understands that it's a DSLR and the majority of users will be using the VF.

Regarding DR, "lags a bit behind" is a huge understatement since a camera like the D3200, D5100 or Pentax K-30 provide a full 3 EV more dynamic range than the t2i, t3i, t4i's 18 mp sensor. For a user with existing Canon lenses this is an issue they'll have to deal with. New users would be better served by a DSLR with a more modern APS-C sensor like one of the above cameras.

But the T4i should be popular with the Vimeo HDSLR crowd although it still has a somewhat soft look in video mode with moire / aliasing issues from previous Rebel models not adressed. For photography, you can get a K-5 or K-30 or a mid-range Nikon, all better choices, for this price.

12 upvotes

The T4i scores higher than either of those cameras, so it would be a bit weird for them to recommend them.
Also:

"Yet it is still far behind the better mirrorless models we have seen from the likes of Panasonic and Olympus as well as rival Nikon's 1 series."

"Canon's new 'hybrid' AF system, while a step forward compared to previous contrast detect attempts, is a long way from what we've seen in other mirrorless models, and from our experience of Sony's SLTs."

That seems enough to me to suggest that if you want fast live view performance, go mirrorless or SLT. They don't need to mention specific models.

1 upvote

Simple, T4i and D3200 are not in the same category. While D3200 is entry level, T4i is mid level camera. D3200 should be compared with Canon T3 or upcoming Canon T4 (if any). Don't through question blindly.

0 upvotes

It's not just DPR Many reviewers are going out of their way to down play the large, ever widening, gap between the quality of Canon and Nikon's sensors. With the other features of the camera's pretty much equal between the two brands, anyone who is looking to buy into a DSLR system would be foolish to chose Canon over Nikon at this point. Especially if they are planing on upgrading from the entry level cameras in the future.

The fact is the D800 took away the one reason to go Canon over Nikon ( needing/ wanting high res for less then 8 grand) and now Canon has to improve their sensors or they are going to be in real trouble in the next few years.

Comment edited 38 seconds after posting

1 upvote

@AP7

Even the D5100 has significantly better DR than the T4i. Plus don't you think it is worth mentioning in the review that Nikon's latest cheap entry level camera has a 3 stop DR advantage and more resolution than Canons "mid level" T4i?

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

@Josh152

I agree with you on DR issue, but I was replying on Live View issue that DPR put emphasize on entry camera such as D3200.

Also, Nikon has slight edge on high ISO.

But, Canon has some more features that you may only get D7000 or higher Nikon DSLRs, such as, High Speed Sync, DOF preview, live histogram, Mirror lock up, etc. Also, Canon has better video quality and manual control. Someone who want to grow may miss these features at a later time. Nikon style is to upgrade.

Not all the issues are mentioned in the review.

0 upvotes

Great review, nice product. But when using the compare tool, I was surprised to see how well the inexpensive and simple Olympus PL-1 holds up with both RAW and JPEG. In fact, the JPEGS may look better.

0 upvotes

Great review? Why? you agree with the outcome? It may be the best so-called entry level but it is pretty sad that it's noise performance and lackluster dynamic range has not improved.

7 upvotes

Another thing:
In raw image quality the thing is (selon depreview) n°1: T2i, 2° T3i, 3° T4i.

So, what is going on here?
How is that possible, are we losing raw image quality? As long as i understand jpgs depend on the quality of raw data processing, so if you have worst raw you have worst jpgs, and if you have worst raw is because you have a worst sensor. Am I right or wrong?
Some budy can explain the whole thing, please.

P.S. the first pos start with AM I not I Am. my mistake, sorry.

1 upvote

i sometime pay hundreds or thousand of dollars for lenses to gain half or 1 stop and this one lose some in high iso. no thanks canon.

2 upvotes

Believe it or not, this camera isn't exactly aimed at people who would spend "thousands of dollars for lenses to gain half or 1 stop" anyway, so I don't think this is going to be an issue for the average Rebel buyer. LOL.

4 upvotes

i do have rebel beside these kind of lenses! i like the small body with good pic quality.rebel was the best at this, but 650 change this way( at least to me). i don't like to pay premium money for features i don't use, better spend it on lenses.

0 upvotes

beside all that. am afraid if we accept this now from canon, then they will follow the route with each camera they gonna release in future. they would degrade its pic quality since they see people wont complain about it.which is not acceptable at all.

0 upvotes

Lol, right, Canon is going to go out of their way to degrade the picture quality of each camera they are going to release in the future. Paranoid much!? Lol. Yeah, they are going to do that until we're back to the IQ of the Canon 300D/Digital Rebel! Hahaha. Cuckoo!

2 upvotes

meshal wrote: "like the small body with good pic quality.rebel was the best at this"

Maybe 3 years ago. Since then everything changed, and Rebel is absolutely worst of all modern DSLRs.

2 upvotes

I Am wrong or the pictures from 4/3 OM render better low light performance, detail and color? also it seems that nikon 3200 have a better low light performance. it is?

what about dynamic range difference?

Bases on the review, the canon t4i is a little bit behind his pairs in the aspects mentioned before. But how much behind?
any body know?

3 upvotes

just bought this one last week, and it's cheaper here in the Philippines, thanks, just one question, on " Setting Copyright Information " after setting of the authors name and copyright info text info does not appear on uploaded images , can you help me with this, thanks and more power.

0 upvotes

It should appear in the EXIF data - it will not be visible on the image (sorry if this is not what you understood) but if you open it in any decent imaging editing program the EXIF data should be visible and your information should be in there.

0 upvotes

Canon has re-purposed their 18mp sensor so many times it is getting worse! Also, gotta say, I continue to hate on the 1.6 multiplier. Canon models, below the 5D series and 7D, stinks, plain and simple.

6 upvotes

The 7D hardly stinks.

And do you prefer the massive difference of Nikon's 1.5x crop? Yeah, that is a huge deal buddy

5 upvotes

"The 7D hardly stinks." Try reading what I wrote. By the way, it is a sufficient difference to make a difference to those who are more discerning. Obviously, you couldn't be counted among that
group.
I ain't your buddy and you ain't too smart.

And do you prefer the massive difference of Nikon's 1.5x crop? Yeah, that is a huge deal buddy

4 upvotes

People who "continue to hate on the 1.6 multiplier" should be ignored. What kind of irrational non-sense is that? Tens of millions of users have been using the 1.6 multiplier for over a decade now. I shoot with 1.6x and FF interchangeably when I shoot weddings, and I see absolutely zero reason to "hate on" the 1.6x multiplier. Each has its pros and cons.

As for the "re-purposed" 18mp sensor, jeez, not every camera needs an entirely new and different sensor. These days, the performance of sensors is so high that the biggest limitation is the person behind the camera. Unfortunately, the art of photography has been overtaken by obsessed tech- heads like jdrx2012 who care more about tech than art. It's really sad.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

If you continue to hate on the 1.6 mutiplier (which I think translates to "I don't like it") then there really isn't much point in reading a review about this camera.

4 upvotes

Anyone know how much cheaper the 60D is now?
Certainly cheaper than a rebel for some odd reason.
Though, Canon has gotten pretty comfortable with asking incredible street prices and quickly following the market and slashing down the prices and hurting the resell value for the customers, better hold on your picture taker for a while or hold off from getting one right away~

0 upvotes

Believe it or not, there are a lot consumers who will choose a Rebel over a 60D because there are a /lot/ of consumers who don't like bigger, heavier DSLRs. The 60D is larger and heavier. A 60D weighs about 750g while a T4i weighs 575g. Not all consumer decisions are based exclusively on specs. A lot of consumers say to themselves, "Which camera do I want to carry around with me all day when I'm on vacation? Which camera can I barely stuff into my purse? Which camera is going to be less of a burden on my shoulder?"

0 upvotes

Personally I think there is a large untapped market for pro build, pro featured, pro priced cameras at the size of the entry level cameras.

0 upvotes

@T3 - In that case they should abandon DSLRs and shift to much smaller, lighter with similar IQ mirrorless cameras. :)

Comment edited 21 seconds after posting

1 upvote

@Josh152....if you sincerely feel that way, you "really" need to pick up a Pentax K-5...

1 upvote

@brendon1000- yep that's where we're headed. It just won't happen overnight. Right now, lightweight, compact DSLRs like the Rebels still sell like hotcakes.

@Josh152- then you'll get a lot of pro-level users complaining that these smaller "pro" bodies don't balance as well with larger pro-level lenses. Plus, I think Canon and Nikon have a very good read on what kind/size bodies their pro-level DSLR users want/like/will buy. Believe it or not, Canon and Nikon do quite a lot of market research with their existing pro usership. They aren't quite as clueless as you might think they are. Frankly, I think a pro-priced, pro-spec'd Rebel-sized body would be an unpopular low-volume niche product because it ends up being too small to appeal to pro-level users using pro-level lenses and too expensive for amateurs.

0 upvotes

Great affordable camera.

Now everyone who owns these genre (by Canon, Nikon, Sony etc) are able to make great movies, if they had the patience to learn how to extract the capabilities of these gadgets.

Consumers are the real winners here.

But it seems there is just too much technology crammed into cameras these days, the common casual photographer / videographer probably only use around 20% of what's on offer.

.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Canon, how about making something useful? Just trying to think who this camera is for..advanced enthusiasts or exhausted and retired pro's ? How about something like 5DII in rebel body and $999 price tag? I would say "thank you canon", but for this one? what a waste!

3 upvotes

That's what Pentax is for :)

4 upvotes

kind of useless comment I think ... the Rebel has been always one of the most popular and best selling series in the Canon's production line!!! Like it or not the facts are indisputable ... 5D MarkII for a $1000 ....yep ! How about an M3 for the price of a Prius ?!

2 upvotes

Huh? I think there will be a lot of consumers who will think that the multi-touch functionality of the touchscreen to be very useful. Same goes for the increase to 5fps. Same with the gain of all 9 sensors now being cross-type sensor. Plus, not everyone finds FF to be "useful" because it entails having a larger body and lenses than what you can get with EF-S equipment. FF fans tend to believe that FF is the end-all and be-all of photography, but it really isn't. In fact, for a lot of consumer photographers, it's really FF that is "a waste."

I shoot with 1.6x and FF bodies. FF is nice to have, but certainly not a necessity. There are plenty of other features that can be considered more "useful." And BTW, if you think that Canon can stuff a 5DII into a Rebel body and sell it for $999, you're nuts. Cuckoo!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

@ T3 - Canon can't, but Pentax did with the K-5 two years ago.

1 upvote

@Heie2 - I wasn't aware that the Pentax K-5 was a FF DSLR. Oh, wait, it's not!

0 upvotes

@ T3 you're right it isn't FF, but it's IQ and DR surpass the 5DII.

1 upvote

@Heie2 - Sorry but I don't think many people who are interested in getting a FF 5D MKII will opt instead for an APS-C K-5 regardless of how good the K-5 might be. Call us when Pentax comes out with a 35mm FF DSLR. And even better, tell us when they make this 35mm FF DSLR the same size as a Rebel, and sells it for only $999. If they do that, then I can assure you that people will take greater notice of Pentax.

BTW, based on dpreview's DR tests, the K-5's DR does not surpass the 5DII. It doesn't do as well as the 5DII, and it does even worse compared to the 5DIII. Time for Pentax to move up to FF. More people would take them seriously if they offered a FF body. I know I would.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Amazing features for the price. I remember paying $2,000 for the 300D. That's technical progress. This camera would be more than what 90% of its users need.

2 upvotes

When did you pay 2000 dollars for that? It was the first camera introduced under $1000

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting

7 upvotes

Haha, looks like someone paid a hefty premium ?

2 upvotes

The announcing retail price for the 300D was $899.00 btw.

5 upvotes

Somewhat too expensive!

1 upvote

In the table in page 2, you write:

"Autofocus assist lamp: by optional dedicated Speedlite"

I understand that it can also use the built-in flash for focusing, no?

Thanks for the review!

Comment edited 39 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

You're correct. The specs page has been updated.

0 upvotes

@dpreview
Is it me or the build quality comparison doesn't work in any reviews.

Also why no comparison to Sony SLT in viewfinder size.

You show the 650d and a57 side by side but where is the A57 review

1 upvote

I think they're still busy with A57.. it's quite common with dpreview, they're working on several review parallel. they just pick up the result first.

1 upvote

don't like the idea of a touchscreen on my DSLR
its bad enough keeping the screen on my phone clean.
don't what greasy finger marks allover my camera too

Comment edited 49 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

I think people have gotten over being anal about pristinely clean screens. Obviously, touchscreen phones now dominate the market, and no one worries about touching their phone screens with their fingers anymore. The same will happen with these new touchscreen cameras. Besides, a camera's screen is more likely to get smudged up from facial oils getting on the screen than finger oils. Of course, it may be that some people have greasier fingers than others, but if people can embrace using touchscreen phones and tablets, I don't think it will be an issue getting people to embrace touchscreens on cameras.

I think I cared about finger marks on my Android phone and iPad screen the first week I had them. After that I never really gave it another thought, unless they got *very* smudged up.

6 upvotes

@Shakens:

Don´t touch the screen then! The controls are there anyway, if you don´t like it "the touchscreen way"...

And if you have greasy fingers any camera would be getting "greasy finger marks all over..."

Deem the 650D on its actual merits, or lack thereof, please

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Oh I don't know, I used to keep cleaning the screen on my G2 LOL but I rarely used the touch screen on it to be fair, so it's not such a big deal anyway compared to a non touch screen.

0 upvotes

Well, that's about the only real "great feature" that this rebel offers over it's predecessors... so stick with a T2i, they're a bargain now!

2 upvotes

I thought I was going to dislike the touchscreen and felt similar to your sentiments. turns out it is quite a nice feature for some of the shooting I do and honestly my finger is less greasy than my nose that often hits the screen. Sorry if that was TMI for folks :) I have a full review/demo of the touchscreen on my site - happy to share it with anyone interested.

0 upvotes

Simple, don't use the touch screen. Some people... lol

Comment edited 56 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Another good and fair review. If you go into the various categories you find that its no class leader. There's a lot of catch up with other brands like pancake lenses, HDR, photo stacking and "not quite up to its peers" in some areas.
I like the feel and constant evolution of the Canon's and one can only assume that its the sum total of all the parts that makes it what it is, with a nice touch screen (which wont help photo image quality).
Theres no going away from the fact that they have a huge marketing campaign and build solid performers that tend to be treated as the benchmark........but still like to see the K30 review please Dpr !!

0 upvotes

I think on the whole the reviews are pretty fair, though some of the cons can be annoying and petty IMO, but non the less the bottom line is generally good. Not that I intend to ever buy the K30, I am quite interested in seeing it's review as well.

0 upvotes

Are you aware that canon has the 40mm pancake prime now? I've never been sure what utility people find in pancakes for DSLRs anyhow. For me, a mirrorless system stands or falls on the availability of good pancake primes,because their size is their major advantage (hence I went with Samsung). But an SLR is going to be bulky and heavy no matter what lens you put on it, so (purely from a personal points of view) I don't see much use in making it slightly lighter, smaller, and somewhat unbalanced in the process.

As for your conclusion though, I couldn't agree more. The Canons are great all-round performers, with good ergonomics and a great range of lenses. But they've not done anything massively innovative for quite some time, and it would be nice to see them trying a bit harder.

1 upvote

I used a 7D today for the first time. Its like... a new Universe opened. Canon should make only 7D's.

0 upvotes

The 7D is overkill for a lot of photographers. Not everyone wants to lug around the extra weight of a 7D, not to mention its much larger size, and expense. A 7D weighs 945g with battery. A Rebel T4i weighs only 575g with battery. That's a 370g difference. In other words, the 7D weighs 64% more than a Rebel T4i. Or to put it another way, a 7D weighs as much as one whole T4i plus 2/3rds of a second T4i. That may or may not seem like a big difference on paper, but the difference is immediately noticeable when you pick them up...and becomes even more noticeable after carrying them all day long.

Besides, unless you do high speed shooting or high speed focus tracking, most people will never even see the benefits of a 7D over a Rebel T4i. For example, if you mainly shoot portraits or landscapes or stills, a 7D isn't going to be much of a benefit.

3 upvotes

Really? I had a 7D a couple of years back. I didnt like it much.

Huge, noisy thing.

2 upvotes

Happy with a phone camera now?

0 upvotes

The 7D is lovely, but I don't feel like I've grown anywhere near enough as a photographer to feel the limitations of my 550D/T3i yet. Spending the difference in price on extra glass has made far more difference to my photography than the 7D's extra features ever could.

7 upvotes

7D as overkill? Ha, tell me about it! I saw the saddest thing at a wedding, someone with a 7D and 430 EX... with the old non-IS 18-55 kit! Now that is overkill, while I dream of the 7Ds autofocus that doesn't miss like my rebel's so often...

And as for landscapes, that weather sealing is suuure nice to keep in mind when hiking around. Of course the sealed lens is required too.

0 upvotes

If you want 7D IQ (better actually) in a compact body (smaller than a rebel) with sealing, the obvious choice is the Pentax K-5. The new Pentax K-30 can't be beat at its price either. I recommend branching out from the monotonous offerings from Canon/Nikon for best bang for your buck in the smallest, most compact package without ever sacrificing IQ.

5 upvotes

If you like the K5, get a D7000, its cheaper and just as good IQ. The Penatx does get the nod on body and sealing, but not by much.

1 upvote

i think the k-5 is cheaper than the d7000 at the mo, it's being cleared for a new model hopefully in september (not that i can afford it, got in enough trouble buying the k-5)

2 upvotes

"New Universe"? Haha, love those Canon fan boys...

1 upvote

@Nishi Drew, I've traveled around the world with an old unsealed Rebel XT in all kinds of bad weather, including rain, and shooting at the base of waterfalls like Niagara in the US and Iguazu Falls in Argentina where it's practically like shooting in the shower or a car wash, and my XT survived just fine. I don't think people realize just how much these cameras can take. If you don't believe me, what this torture test where the testers harshly abuse a Canon 550D (and Nikon D90), including pouring a full cup of hot tea on the camera...twice...and the Canon survives just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tTBncIsm8

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting

1 upvote

Hey T3, just use a 7D yourself instead of pontificating against it. You can pour tea over your Rebel as much as you want and you will end up with a ruined camera. Amateurs always know better....

0 upvotes

Hey ageha... you'd know what i mean if you were serious about better cameras and knew something about photography. Try not to use 'Auto' and the idiot modes so much.

0 upvotes

Nice cam but Canon seems to be years behind Sony when it comes to sensor technology. Compare the noise of the Canon with Sonys new NEX F3 in RAW mode.

3 upvotes

i did put, and canon at iso1600 is clearly less noisy and more detailed...

1 upvote

Ijustloveshooting, maybe it's the right time for you to get a eye surgery :)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studio-compare#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=canon_eos650d&masterSample=img_1020.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=canon_eos650d&slot0Sample=img_1020.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=pentax_k5&slot1Sample=imgp3866.acr&slot2Camera=sony_nex5n&slot2Sample=dsc00787.acr&slot3Camera=canon_eos7d&slot3Sample=canon7d_iso1600.acr&x=0.28654303376129336&y=0.5085530710995428

4 upvotes

I thought anally obsessive pixel peeping was getting passe. Are people still obsessed about scrutinizing images so closely? I guess so. Kind of sad, though, because there's so much more to photography than looking at images at 100% pixel-level magnification.

2 upvotes

hello Couscousdelight....my eyes are OK...thanks :))
In your comparison i even can not see sony nex-F3, i think you need to see a doc :))) you put nex5N...
on the other hand, take a look at that; canon is far better than nex-F3...
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studio-compare#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=canon_eos650d&masterSample=img_1020.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=canon_eos650d&slot0Sample=img_1020.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=sony_nexf3&slot1Sample=dsc00751.acr&x=0.9600298892738265&y=-1.2313782140730292&extraCameraCount=0

0 upvotes

anyone who thinks RAW looks better than JPEG needs their eyes examined... lol.
all RAW looks noisy (bad/worse, whatever) UNTIL they're 'fixed' via pp to generate... what else, a displayable image, usually, a JPEG.

3 upvotes

sdyue, you really need to see a doctor.

1 upvote

Ok, guys, I need help here. I am a newbie to photography, no experience more than taking the occasional pictures here and there, with a recent decision to pick up photography, been reading quite a bit when suddenly my cheapo p&s died. I am trying to decide between a t3i and a t4i. So here's what I'm looking for, I will probably start with the camera on auto, but want to be able to experiment and learn with the manual modes over time. I am also of the mentality that I want to buy something that will last a few years and that I'd rather spend the money upfront rather than start with something basic then pay more down the line to upgrade. I love the fact that the t4i doesn't "effectively" have a 4GB movie limit and a stereo mic, but I am concerned that its slightly noisier than a t3i. And while the t3i can be had at a bargain now, I am wondering how it will hold up quality-wise 3-4 years down the road. I have considered an SLT-57, loved it, but hated the downwards swiveling screen.

0 upvotes

Get a 7D if you're serious about a camera to use later on.

0 upvotes

auto modes (AE: Av/Tv/P) are basically conveniences that allow those familiar to settle for exposure averaging (whether spot/area), with modest compensation.

given EOS Canons all now have ExpSim LV (exposure simulation LIVE preview), any beginner/newbie, can immediately use Full M/Manual ISO, and SEE directly live via what the sensor sees, the exact exposure chosen for whatever shutter speeds/ISOs/wb/aperture diameters (dof), contrast/saturation, and full DR preview, of any given lit scene.

opting for Rebel T4i may suit your needs RE: VASS (vari-angle swivel screen), but have only touch screen as a 'new' type of control, BUT require one to 'look-to-adjust'. direct physical controls like Nav buttons, toggles, dials, etc allow one to start making adjustments strictly by feel alone.

7D has Dual EOS-1 controls (thumbwheel and fingerdial) but lacks VASS.

60D has EOS-1 controls plus VASS. (downside, it's EOS-1 controls not as good as 7D/5D/1D.

T4i lacks EOS-1 controls if u r ok with it

0 upvotes

I did consider the 7D and even the D7000, they seem to have great image quality, but neither has the swivel screen, quite heavy for my liking, in addition to being a little out of my budget.
As I said I considered several, the 5100 I didn't care for its grip, it felt strange in my hand. I loved the feel of the SLT57, but hated the screen swiveling downwards, but man is it fast. And the new micro 4/3rds, they just felt weird in my hand. So anyway going by process of elimination, I ended up with either the t3i or the t4i, with the newbie me thinking I might as well go for the 'newest' with its new bells and whistles that it would last me a little longer, my only concern about it is the fact that its noise seems to be higher than the t3i. Essentially it's a t4i with new stuff, less slight image quality, and more expensive vs. t3i, less all the new goodies, slight improvement in quality, and can now be had for a real bargain.

0 upvotes

I say, if the swivel screen isn't the biggest concern then the T2i is a great bargain now, same sensor and not much different, and again, very affordable.

2 upvotes

I'd go with T3i considering better noise.. in my opinion, the difference with T4i is nice but not curcial. Hybrid AF is helping the focus but only if you use a lot of live view (I usually use live view with Quick AF though). The extra money you can spend on a better lens

0 upvotes

if you're coming from a P+S never having had a DSLR before i'd say that you need to worry less about the screen, most of the time you'll shoot through the viewfinder.

And if you want a swivel screen for video purposes i'd be tempted to go for a mirrorless model if video is important to you.

1 upvote

Just a note that unless you buy used the t3i is actually as cheap or cheaper than the t2i on Amazon.

0 upvotes

Maybe I got a bad copy or something but i hated my T2i. (I know I'm in the minority here) but the IQ was worse than my T1i, images were just softer even with sharpness turned up. Color reproduction wasn't as good either. I dumped that thing as soon as the T3i came out and never looked back.

0 upvotes

Yes, I'm coming from a p&s. Right now the t4i is $949 on Amazon, vs a t3i (which I can get in a package with a couple lenses for $830 or so). I like the fact of the unlimited video length and the stereo mics, and the idea of touch to focus is really nice too (I know this may not be for the pro's here, but just newbie me). Ok, let me ask it differently, does whatever the t4i add outweigh the slight noise increase over the t3i, putting prices aside?

0 upvotes

The noise difference is really quite minor. People are bugged about it because they were expecting improvement. Personally, I'd spend a little more for the t4i. Touch focus is a very useful feature, and the video features are up to date.

However... if I were coming from a p+s I'd be careful about buying any dslr. I know they are what 'real' photographers use, but they are also heavy and bulky and so are the lenses.

Mirrorless cameras will give you equivalent IQ to entry-level dslrs in smaller, lighter packages. You've probably heard the saying that the best camera is the one you have with you. It's realistic to carry one of the smaller mirrorless models with a pancake prime in a coat pocket, or even an MFT camera with the Panasonic 14-42 power zoom. Sure, you won't feel like a pro shooting with one, but you can learn just as much and take pictures that are just as beautiful. They also work well with old manual focus lenses via adapters. Some of those lenses (like old Russian lenses and even old manual focus Japanese lenses) are pretty cheap and you can build up a collection for way less than buying modern af lenses. Cameras with focus peaking, like the Sony NEX models, are very popular for shooting with old glass.

0 upvotes

Mark, the reason I've excluded the mirrorless ones isn't really because I was looking for 'real photographers' cameras', I held a couple at the store and they really felt odd in my hand (I have big hands here, I kind of had to squeeze my fingers together to hold them, just like the Lumix FZ-47, I liked it, but it is quite small for my hand). On the other hand I found the 7d, D7000 to be really heavy to just casually hold and walk around with. The t3i/t4i seemed to strike that middle ground of fullness in the hand feeling yet still be light enough.

0 upvotes

ThoughtfulMind, don't get suckered into an outdated system with the "new" camera with outdated sensor and outdated processor.
Get into DSLR if you want to go with full-frame cameras, as there is no alternative in this segment yet. Then you have a choice of 4 current cameras: Canon 1D X and 5D III, Nikon D4 and D800. But for the consumer-level cameras, the whole industry went into the new, mirrorless systems, with smaller lighter bodies and smaller lighter lenses.
If you want to start a new system, wait 3 weeks until Photokina, a lot of new stuff will be announced, and you will be able to make a rational decision instead of going with either of the pathetic Rebels.

0 upvotes

peevee1, that's pretty much my decision at this point, see what will come out of Photokina and probably buy around thanksgiving. I am really intrigued about the K-5 but it seems that it's a little old and a little lacking as far as video capabilities, the reviews of the K-30 are good too, but it has no external mic and just a mono mic. I guess I'll wait a little and see.
Just a question though, doesn't the t4i have the Digic 5 that's supposed to be a new processor?

0 upvotes

"f you want to start a new system, wait 3 weeks until Photokina"

Good advice, lots of new kit will appear and all the old kit will go down in price, best of both worlds ;-)

0 upvotes

I'm looking at the studio comparisons -vs- the 7D, and while I've seen comments that the 650D is pulling more detail than the 7D the resolution charts clearly show the obnoxious levels of moire' as a side effect of reduced AA filtering. This has become a common trait of Canon's amatuer -vs- more serious dSLR offerings, but at a certain point you'd think Canon would come up with a better solution rather than sacrificing detail and 'sludgy' looking reds at the expense of possible moire'.

0 upvotes

I guess what I noticed is that it seemed that the Oly OMD E-5 bested the APS-C cameras in the comparator. What it really says is that they are all pretty good at bottom and that tiny differences at the pixel level are irrelevant.

8 upvotes

Did I miss the mention of the loss of video crop modes from the previous two models? That's such a useful feature to me, that I'd buy a used 60D over a T4i for that reason alone.

It should appear in the "cons" section too.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

On the movie mode page of the review we note that the digital zoom feature (which uses the sensor crop) is gone.

0 upvotes

Sadly.....A very good feature in the T3i, better than in the 60D

0 upvotes

Why no mention of the rubber grips sweating the white zinc substance?

2 upvotes

Because we didn't experience it, it's unlikely to affect future customers and we've already covered it twice on the front page of the website?

16 upvotes

Thank you for another profound review and thorough conclusion. It's unbelievable what you get on this site for FREE!. THX and keep up the good work.
PS: "Remember that a critic is a dreamer gone scared."

12 upvotes

Yay. Review time ... Thank you.

3 upvotes

I am guilty of only reading the conclusion then entering my 550D into the comparator to see if the 650D beats what I have. I concluded Andy Westlake is being very polite but is suggesting this 650D is taking a few steps forward but many back.
Then again, I often wonder about the accuracy of those histograms and how the DpReview crew work them out?

Andy, can you write me a conclusion for the Pentax K30.
I don't think I have the right personality to pour over all that other stuff and enter into in-depth conversations how one coin looks different to another.

0 upvotes

I have a Canon t3i and like it a lot, but I don't like what I see in the High ISO comparison between the t4i and the D3200. According to EXIF data the t4i was using a 17-55 2.8, and the Nikon a 18-300! This is a huge huge discrepancy in optical quality. True perhaps a 6400 shot at this point will completely dwarf whatever optical excellence you have left, but I couldn't help but be dissapointed at this handicap. True, I think the salt and pepper noise which I've seen for a good while on the D3200 would *still* annoy me compared to Canon's...since these are post-demosaiced big blobs of salt and pepper that didn't get mapped out like some hot/dead pixels would...but it would have been nice to see how much detail you get from the D3200 at high ISO with a truly equivalent lens to Canon's 17-55 2.8!

2 upvotes

You are right here, but, still the Canon sensor has less noise than the Sony 24 mpix one found in the D3200. Nikon's policy to set on the market low end gear like the D3200 is very badly quoted. Crappy standard zoom kit lenses, the last good one was on the D70. Then the lack of motorized lens system, only Hyper-drive lenses can be used on them, and, last not least, the lack of the menu setting that allows to shoot without lens attached, what leaves the use of adapters and hybrid lenses t off limits. The addition of that menu command would allow full manual use with adapters and make the D3200 a huge tool too, juts like the NEX-7. The sensor is excellent and it is able to make good shots, so, I think too the in DP review one should stick to company kit lenses, make tests with a high quality lens to compare and then use center spot only to shoot the test.

0 upvotes

I found many cameras to spot different parts of the test setup and thus the same area you look at is at different sharpness, leaving the impression that that camera is a bad fellow. I compared this Canon shot to many other cameras and can say that image quality is quiet stunning for a low end gear, but, is that not a standard given to functions of the body only, picture quality is certainly not what makes is a low end gear. Sony's RX100 show us clearly that small P&S gear can have big brother's picture quality too.

1 upvote

Actually, the D3200 doesn't have a Sony sensor and it's less noisy at an image level (similar at pixel levell, but then you're effectively comparing 2 differntly sized outputs). The same applies to the Sony 24MP too as found in for example the NEX 7.
In terms of shadow noise, the difference is rather dramatic though, as also seen in the review.

4 upvotes

does the touchscreen operations still works well when using LCD protector?

1 upvote

Screen protectors work on capacitive touchscreen cell phones, so they should work on this capacitive touchscreen camera. The technology is the same.

5 upvotes

The DPR review seems to omit two important consideration; I hope they can add them.

- The real benchmark to work against is the current hybrid AF champion, the Nikon 1. According to its reviews it manages to achieve dslr level focus tracking in good light, beating all other mirrorless cameras in this regard. Since focus tracking is the main wonderfulness of PDAF, isn't that the comparison that should be made?

- Does viewfinder shooting have a Hybrid mode that is a bit slower but finishes the main PDAF action with a little CDAF trim? It might be a bit slower, but it would sidestep calibration issues. If Canon did not take advantage of this it merits a mention as a lost opportunity. (perhaps I missed it in the review)

3 upvotes

The Nikon 1 AF is different--it uses either PDAF alone or CDAF alone. Canon is mixing the two during a single capture. Personally I think they should be comparing to other cameras in its class regardless of technology. I think the larger m43 cameras are more-or-less in the same class so it's an appropriate comparison.

1 upvote

worse, comparing apples to oranges really.
why?
any system that needs less adjustment to a lens for focusing is going to be inherently faster, especially a system where it sensors/lenses/apertures are scaled proportionately smaller, MEANING, dof is higher for the same f/stop.

if one were to illustrate the point, one can use a tiny aperture 'nearly focus free' (nothing is really focus free, just 'nearly' so), and be 'impressed' by how quickly it can focus between something near to something far in a mere instant... a single 'slight' shift will usually do it, and much faster than the 'larger' sensor Nikon 1. so it's all a matter of scale. the smaller, it SHOULD be faster by default. there's no technical obstacle to overcome on speed here, rather, it has a default advantage; less to shift, for focus lock.

stuff that Nikon 1 AF into a Nikon APS-C/FF dSLR, and it will not fare so well at all, maybe fail all the time. Nikon D800 is already struggling/sluggish... silly to compare to the '1'

1 upvote

I have heard people use the Nikon 1 with the FT-1 adapter and the 85mm f1.4 with good results. You can hardly get more critical than that.

I understand the point that bigger mirrorless are closer to the 650D because they are... Bigger. But comparing a DSLR against a mirrorless is comparing apples and oranges already. For the 650D apple the closer is the Nikon 1 orange because they share a key feature - on-sensor AF.

I did not know that the Nikon 1 uses either PDAF or CDAF, but not both. Thanks , Bart.

On reflection that makes sense. On-sensor PDAF does not have the flapping mirror/mechanized PDAF that DSLRs have. On-sensor PDAF just has less to be miscalibrated, so a CDAF trim is perhaps not needed.

My question would be: what is it about the Canon on-sensor PDAF that requires a CDAF trim where Nikon does not? Perhaps a critical patent Nikon is not licensing?

0 upvotes

That's a good question--seems like PDAF would be as accurate as CDAF if it's in the sensor.

Sydue, you're getting hung up on comparing like technologies. This is relevant to engineers, but not to photographers IMO. Keeping mirrorless separate from mirrored cameras is as useless as separating CCD from CMOS cameras.

The speed of the Nikon 1 is surely helped by smaller sensor requiring less accuracy, but not anywhere near enough to explain the awful performance of the Canon mirrorless AF. I've tried a V1 enough times--it'll cover its entire focus range almost instantly.

0 upvotes

Ι will wait the forthcoming 650 1/4 model next month or maybe the 550 1/2 DDT in two months...

0 upvotes

Bottom line is, it's a good time to be a consumer. Lots of great choices available today.

8 upvotes

And the Rebel is not one of them.

1 upvote


Just posted: Our Canon PowerShot D20 underwater camera review Jun 18, 2013	Lens reviews update: DxOMark data for Nikon-fit full frame wideangles Jun 18, 2013	Canon EOS Rebel SL1/100D studio samples and good light samples gallery Jun 17, 2013	Canon EOS 700D / EOS Rebel T5i review updated with lens data Jun 14, 2013

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	Pentax Efina Jun 3, 2013
	Olympus PEN E-P5 May 10, 2013
	Samsung NX2000 May 1, 2013
	Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V Apr 24, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Apr 24, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Apr 24, 2013

Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!	98
Insensitive composition..	86
Leica M Monochrom vs DP2 Merril in a BW ...	75
Why not a Pentax FullFrame - that's simple, ...	58
New rumour on SAR	55
"Bokeh" overrated? I think so!	52
If you had to choose between the 12mm or the ...	46
e-p5 What's not to love	43
Which camera, driving me crazy!!!	42
$2000 mft Budget	39
Considering switching systems	37
E5 shutter dies ... in the middle of shooting ...	37
The D600 and Sigma 35mm f1.4 (high rez picture ...	32
VF-4 is a Revelation	31
LF1 Review	30
FZ200 airshow #6: Panasonic TC, and ...	30
Which lens/ lenses to carry?	29
* Wed C&C (No Theme) Thread, Ed. 269, 13 06 19 *	29
Lightzone is back and Open source!	28
Does anyone use X-pro 1 profesionally?	28

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