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Sigma USA announces price and availability of DP2 Merrill

By dpreview staff on Jun 29, 2012 at 05:00 GMT

Sigma USA has announced the price and availability of its DP2 Merrill large sensor, fixed lens 14.6x3MP camera. The DP2 M will be available from July 12th at an estimated street price of $999 (this being the price you're likely to pay, rather than the sometimes fanciful MSRP figures). The DP2 M is major step forward for the DP2 concept, featuring a larger, APS-C sized Foveon sensor, high resolution, 921k dot LCD and a newly-developed telecentric 30mm F2.8 lens, giving a 45mm equivalent field of view.


Press Release:

Sigma Corporation announces pricing and availability of Sigma DP2 Merrill

New generation compact camera to hit US shelves in July for street price of $999

Ronkonkoma, NY, June 29, 2012 – Sigma Corporation of America (www.sigmaphoto.com), a leading researcher, developer, manufacturer and service provider for some of the world's most impressive lines of lenses, cameras and flashes, has announced that the Sigma DP2 Merrill compact digital camera will be available in the United States on July 12 for the street price of $999.

This upgraded, high-resolution, compact digital camera with a fixed lens is named in honor of Richard “Dick” Merrill, the co-creator of the Foveon X3 Direct Image Sensor technology that powers Sigma’s unique lineup of cameras. It differs from its predecessor, the DP2x, because its resolution has grown by moving from Foveon’s 14.6-megapixel APS-C size image sensor to the 46-megapixel APS-C image sensor found in the company’s flagship SLR, the Sigma SD1 Merrill. The full-color Foveon X3 direct image sensor ensures outstanding resolution, richly gradated tones and images with a three-dimensional feel. A focus ring and custom Quick Set (QS) mode also improve the user interface.

“We are very proud of the engineering and design involved in the upgrade of the DP2 Merrill, and we are especially pleased to honor Dick Merrill with its name,” said Mark Amir-Hamzeh, president of Sigma Corporation of America. “The addition of the 46-megapixel sensor and the continued use of Foveon’s unique three-layer design results in images that can’t be reproduced by other cameras on today’s market.”

The Sigma DP2 Merrill boasts an exclusively designed, high-performance, telecentric 30mm F2.8 lens, which is the equivalent to a 45mm lens on a 35mm SLR camera. The camera is compact and lightweight, and has Super Multi Layer Coating to reduce flare and ghosting.

Other features of the Sigma DP2 Merrill camera include:

  • A dual, three-layer responsive ultimate (TRUE II) engine that now incorporates two TRUE II processors to improve the processing speed and overall quality of the final image
  • RAW and JPEG format recording to retain the full image detail of the utmost quality captured through the direct image sensor, as well as a JPEG recording format for convenience
  • Sigma Photo Pro processing software to convert RAW data quickly and easily
  • Manual focus for use when autofocus or focus-lock is not desired
  • Easy-to-use auto focus with a “nine-point select mode” which can select the desired focusing point from nine different frames, and a “free move mode” that allows shooters to select their desired focusing point
  • An advanced user interface complete with a custom QS menu and the metallic command dial to improve usability
  • Continuous shooting capabilities to capture up to seven RAW images per sequence
  • A large, highly visible, three-inch TFT color LCD monitor for great visibility
  • A hot shoe for the use of the dedicated external flashgun EF-140 DG (optional)
  • Movie mode for movie recording with VGA (640×480) size, with 30 shooting frames per second

For information about Sigma Corporation of America or information about the companies cameras and lenses, visit www.sigmaphoto.com.

Comments

Total comments: 257
12
Davidgilmour
By Davidgilmour (Jul 28, 2012)

Why do we need this when we already have the Nokia 808?

0 upvotes
balchinian
By balchinian (Jul 13, 2012)

I might be interested in the DP1x at bargain prices after the DP1 Merrill comes out and everyone sells their older models.

0 upvotes
unlearny
By unlearny (Jul 7, 2012)

Sergey Borachev seem dedicated to making some long anti-sigma screed in every single comment. The SD1 works... has quirks, just like every camera on the market, and inconveniences that Canon users, and more recently Nikon users don't have to worry about... like live view. God I wish my SD1m had Live View.

But I use the SD1M when I want resolution and micro-detail that is unavailable in anything less than a Leica S2. I am giving Leica the benefit of the doubt on this one. I assume that their 30-something megapixel camera comes close, maybe the D800E does too, I haven't seen comparisons.

Speaking of Leica and the DP2M, Sigma was the first to design an APS sensor P&S camera and everyone turned up their noses. Then the X1 and the X100 followed, utilized the basic imaging philosophy of the DP2, to the adulation of all. Sigma isn't as large as their competitors in terms of income or budget, but they are still making breakthrough cameras, at least Leica & Fuji think so.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
victorgv
By victorgv (Jul 3, 2012)

I am saving for one. I have dp1 but dp2m just perfect for me. It might sound crazy but in my opinion grain on foveon looks more film like and less bothersome. At least that camera forced me to think before click. I guess some people like to run marathon and i enjoy making photos with foveon.

3 upvotes
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jul 2, 2012)

To all those thinking I am trolling, to tell you the truth. I bothered to check these Sigma cameras and post only because I have been waiting for years to buy a Foveon camera, but it is simply too quirky, too unabalanced and unusable, one after another. I think there are a huge number of us and I am afraid most have already given up and lost interest.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
solarsky
By solarsky (Jul 4, 2012)

Fuq

1 upvote
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jul 2, 2012)

Why can't Sigma take it a little bit more seriously with other parts of the camera besides the sensor? It's great if one just shows it around and say, "Foveon sensor! 45MP!", but to actually use it?

Would raising the price another few hundred dollars make the camera more usable, like fast processor or buffer? That seems better than buying one frustrating camera after another.

Why 45mm equivalent FL? How restrictive and uninteresting. With all those MPs, it seems you want something wider so that you can crop and get other narrower FOVs, And of course with the promised great image only available at base ISO, it seems best for landscapes, but 45mm?

I know, I know, you might get a great image if you persists and can cope with all the restrictions. I think there are a lot Sigma can do. Even with something as simple as the case. Just look at the grip. What a brilliant design! Not. Does this camera deserve to be taken seriously, when Sigma does not seem to be taking it seriously?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
solarsky
By solarsky (Jul 4, 2012)

Tough

1 upvote
D-Man67
By D-Man67 (Jul 2, 2012)

SAMPLE PHOTO GALLERIES

http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP2Merrill/samplephoto.html

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/photo_gallery/?select=all&select3=type_b3_1-1%2B12&select2=all

1 upvote
chalnicolas
By chalnicolas (Jul 2, 2012)

I wish they would offer their sensor in a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. Ideally join m43 and become the third company to build bodies for that mount … I guess they could sell a lot and also foster the sales of their own current and future m43 lenses!

1 upvote
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (Jul 2, 2012)

They produce only one type of sensor at a time to maximize their production.

0 upvotes
BitFarmer
By BitFarmer (Jul 2, 2012)

Even using only the central part of its actual sensor, it would make sense to me to join m3/4 train.

1 upvote
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jul 2, 2012)

No it wouldn't

0 upvotes
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jul 3, 2012)

Not really. The main problem with these Foveon cameras is the features in the body not good enough for the sensor and the high price. Just joining M43 would only give these Foveon cameras lenses, but not in those areas where things really have to improve a lot to be of interest to a few more people, i.e. higher ISO, faster AF, faster processing or higher FPS, and I think also better colour or jpeg processing.

I know it is one huge obstacle removed to allow using other lenses, as few would invest in Sigma mount lenses or keep buying DP? cameras just to use Foveon with more lenses. There are too many other huge obstacles.

Sigma should let others use its Foveon sensor and make it attractive enough so others will do so, if it cannot make decent cameras for it. I also suspect Foveon is just too slow and too hard to make use of for general photography. Maybe in some special applications when extraordinarily high prices, bulk, are not issues, eg. separate processor unit. Medium format?

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
manakiin
By manakiin (Jul 3, 2012)

Medium format foveon sensor in a rangefinder body sounds nice.

0 upvotes
shutterhappens
By shutterhappens (Jul 3, 2012)

I also think sigma should license the sensor to other, more capable camera makers. It's been so long since Foveon sensor was announced, and no highly desirable camera has been made from it.

0 upvotes
john maitland graves
By john maitland graves (Jul 21, 2012)

Do you actually OWN one? I love all the knowing comments from those 'expert theorists.' Let's all bow and kowtow - really low this time. I have a dp1s, dp2x and an sd15 (for fixed focus lenses.) My old Leica M6, used professionally, did not have video or auto-focus. My Sinar took was not exactly a point and shoot, nor did it have a millionth of the pizazz of todays cheapest point and snoot cameras. It just worked (probably still does) and worked well, and, heaven forfend, you actually had to use a light meter! The Sigmas are designed for still photography and I would certainly compare results to a Leica M6 and Kodachrome - better, I think. I have no love for nostalgia, hypo, running back and forth to the processor's nor their bills. And what's more, all you have to do is point a Dp somewhere, et viola, l'image splendide!

0 upvotes
fraktol
By fraktol (Jul 2, 2012)

I own a DP2x. I really love the images! And now, with a 3x better resolution, better screen (allowing easier manual focusing), and a faster and more reliable autofocus - it is going to be my dream tool.
999USD is ok. I am fine with fixed focus. Rather will by a DP1m in addition.

2 upvotes
SBoudreault
By SBoudreault (Jul 4, 2012)

" I am fine with fixed focus." Dude, fixed focus is bad, real bad :)

Sorry, couldn't help myself, I know you meant fixed focal...
S.

0 upvotes
Khun_K
By Khun_K (Jul 2, 2012)

I previously owned the DP-1 and DP-2 and have to say the quality of image is very nice, but not the best for what they are - a 4.6mpx X 3 (?), but the DP-2 Merrill will be a good choice I think, makes me want to get one to give it a run. The Foveon sensor is not without issues, I have excellent results from overall good light sceneries, and some studio shots, but long time exposure resulted very strange red cast that is hard to adjust. I would just hope they have a better raw conversion software that make it a real pro product.

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jul 1, 2012)

I think lxstorm is a troll ... I mean, it's clear he has no interest in this product and it's clear he's never owned one ... Yet he's happy to comment and criticise the camera and it's owners .... which is kind of dumb ass really ... Just because I don't understand something or like the look of it, or think its expensive, doesn't give me the authority to call it ... so why doesn't lxstorm go elsewhere and coment on something he does understand!

Annoying!!!!

1 upvote
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jul 3, 2012)

Hey, Chad.

Rudeness is not getting you anywhere. It is also pointless repeating how you have bought Foveon cameras and are qualified to comment. Thanks for trying to keep Foveon alive, but your buying products that nobody else want to buy is not as effective in saving Foveon as proper analyses, which you seem to want to censor. If Sigma can accept what people (not owners) are saying and putting out as reason why they do not want to buy, then there is still hope, more hope anyway than relying on the 20 of so of diehards to continue to buy these cameras. No new customers, no hope.

Unfortunately, Sigma seems stubborn in releasing cameras that are barely usable and of interest to only 0.001% of consumers.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
pntbll248
By pntbll248 (Jul 1, 2012)

I'm most interested in the larger LCD, vastly improved manual focus, and better continuous shooting capability. If Sigma managed to put a decent LCD on the camera, that's far more important to me than higher resolution (though, I do appreciate the MP jump!). I love the results that come out of my DP2X, but its LCD is a complete dog.

2 upvotes
OldZorki
By OldZorki (Jun 30, 2012)

When actually DP1 Merill will be out? As a lot of people (including Sigma fanboys) pointed out, the camera hardly usable for anything else but landscapes. If that is the case, 28mm is way more desirable FL then 45mm.

2 upvotes
lxstorm
By lxstorm (Jul 1, 2012)

Who would care about SIGMA P&S at a one grand price tag actually?

Sony NEX 7 body just 200 dollars more but that would provide you with a instrument that was designed for photographers not greedy stockholders.

Means _MUCH_ better colors rendition, good choice of lenses up to Carl Zeiss professional ones (SIGMA lenses are third grade IQ optics), advanced internal electronics, rigid body, tilted LCD, OLED viewfinder.

If SONY is expensive you can get Nokia cell for 600$ equiped with Zeiss lens as well and large many megapixels sensor that delivers accurate colors rendition as well.

0 upvotes
OldZorki
By OldZorki (Jul 1, 2012)

Well - as we can see some people care, albeit this is obviously a very small fanbase. As of usability.. My friend has 20 year old Fujifilm GSW690 and while ergonomics by today standards is a lot to be desired, results can be absolutely spectacular, and his drum scans probably 300 MP resolution.. I would not expect Sigma approach this feat - but I assume there is a market for fixed lens hi-rez landscape camera.

0 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Jul 1, 2012)

lxstorm - I find you comment to be kind of silly. 1 this Sigma 30mm is available for NEX and considered to be the sharpest lens available for the platform, regardless of name on the lens. 2 Sigma are a photographic company not a consumer electronics company. They also own one of the most innovative sensors around which is found in this camera. A P&S? I hardly think that is an accurate description of this camera, what exactly makes it a P&S? Fixed lens does not make a point and shoot camera.

3 upvotes
lxstorm
By lxstorm (Jul 1, 2012)

>lxstorm - I find you comment to be kind of silly.
Good because we, who are not glad to pay 10,000USD for a 2,300USD item, are misinformed, ignorant and capable for impotently jealous opinions only.

>this Sigma 30mm is available for NEX and considered to be the sharpest lens available for the platform, regardless of name on the lens

Sure. Say it again on Leica forum. LOL

>Sigma are a photographic company not a consumer electronics company.

Does not matter that is was Sony that pioneered digital imaging or Sony Cine ALta was used for Star Wars shooting by Lucas.
Sony is just a consumer electronic company LOL

>They also own one of the most innovative sensors around which is found in this camera.
Really, what is so special about it?

Using silicon for color separation? silicon is bad for color filters.

Absence of microlenses arrays? bad for hi iso imaging.

Low quantities manufacturing ? bad for customers despite it is lucking major futures it is yet expensive to make.

1 upvote
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jul 1, 2012)

Lxstorm....

I find it amazing how those that have no obvious interest in this camera (or have even used a Sigma) can still be bothered to coment! You obviously have never used a DP before, yet you seem to think anyone is going to be interested in your arguments against it! The NEX is a fine camera as is this; and there are numerous people who DO understand this camera (like me) that will buy it ... and maybe a NEX also, as the two are very different cameras for very different segments of the market.

As such, because you have no idea of ths product, because it's clear you've never used one (!), your opinion is worthless!

Sorry folks, but I hate people dissing products when they've never even used them ... Know-it-alls!!!!!

7 upvotes
OldZorki
By OldZorki (Jul 1, 2012)

The fact is - no one yet to hold this camera in their hands and tried it. If indeed IQ is absolutely mesmerizing (even at ISO 100-400) - there will be a market for it. For example - I often hike, and carrying my SLR bag with me is a hassle. If DP1 M (I have no interest in 45mm DP2M version) can deliver quality as good as prosumer DSLR - why not?

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jul 1, 2012)

@lxstom

All you're doing is trolling. If you like Sony NEX so much go buy one. Maybe one day they'll release a lens worth buying that's isn't larger than a beer can. If you don't understand anything about Sigma's Foveon sensor, or their superb optics (go check where their macro lenses are ranked on DxOMark before talking nonsense). And by the way, saying the word "Leica" when you're arguing about how good Sony lenses are is beyond lame.

I'm been interested in the new DP2m ever since I saw the incredible IQ from their SD1 flagship with which this camera shares a sensor. If you're not, who cares.

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jul 1, 2012)

Marike6

Nice one! I'm fed up of people commenting on forums, dissing products when they haven't even owned one themselves or have little knowledge on the subject!

0 upvotes
john maitland graves
By john maitland graves (Jul 21, 2012)

Chad - could not have said it better. Seldom make these kinds of remark - but too tempting. Actually sitting here reading all these gurus and having the laugh of my life. Really feel sorry for Lxstorm and his ilk for having such frail egos! They are missing so much and I hope they get lives. Some people always HAVE to be right and be THE experts. The powers that be must love them because, it would seem, they have come to no discernable harm - yet. But life is long!

0 upvotes
veroman
By veroman (Jun 30, 2012)

As one who has owned and used the Sigma cameras, I applaud Sigma for their efforts to keep the Foveon concept alive. They even purchased the Foveon company!

Unfortunately, merely increasing sensor size & resolution as well as putting their new sensor in a small body doesn't remedy problems that have plagued this design since Day One.

I will be the first to say that the Foveon sensor provides a unique and distinctive file ... in many instances a remarkable one under the right conditions. But there's the problem: if the conditions aren't to the camera's liking, the results can be pretty awful ... whereas my tiny Olympus E-420 nails it every time ... no matter what I throw at it.

It takes lots of courage (and cash!) to keep singing the same song over and over again with only little variation between performances. I just wish they'd change their tune to something more modern ... like a usable ISO 1600-3200.

2 upvotes
lxstorm
By lxstorm (Jul 1, 2012)

>I applaud Sigma for their efforts to keep the Foveon concept alive.

What other options Sigma may come up with? Use Sony sensor instead of Foveon? :)

How many photographers would buy overpriced clumsy clones of Nikon-Sony cameras instead of buying original Nikon-Sony ones?

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jul 1, 2012)

lxstorm:

How about a clone of a Fuji-Nikon camera for say $1500 instead of $6000?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
unknown member
By (unknown member) (Jul 2, 2012)

"It takes lots of courage (and cash!) to keep singing the same song over and over again with only little variation between performances. I just wish they'd change their tune to something more modern ... like a usable ISO 1600-3200."

What is with this ridiculous obsession with very high ISOs? What ever happened to photographers and companies that cared about maximizing image resolution at realistic speeds? As far as I can tell only Sigma and Leica truly care about that anymore.

I would take a camera that had the best image quality even if it topped out at ISO 400 every time over some junk that achieves higher ISOs only because of software that in the process destroys image detail.

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (Jul 2, 2012)

In a me-too world, despite how superb some other cameras are, there are still only 2 companies that have tried something different-Sigma with the Foveon sensor and Fuji with changing the array in different ways with a Bayer matrix. So what if some enjoy these cameras. I have a Fuji E900. It's not the greatest camera in the world, but, at times, the images have a special quality to them and they also print well on simple inkjet printers. I wouldn't use it to photograph the Olympics or run a portrait studio. Just fun to work with.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree with all the above but would point out that Sigma may leave the impression they are interested in maximizing image quality by keeping ISO down but the reality is they have no choice as any DP owner can tell you. I really like my DP1 but not in low light.

0 upvotes
lxstorm
By lxstorm (Jun 30, 2012)

Just check sigma forum how upset owners of Sigma "medium format" camera were once Sigma announced the drop of it's "medium format APS sized" flagship camera BS 10 grand price LOL.

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
FritsThomsen
By FritsThomsen (Jul 1, 2012)

??? I dont remember ANYONE complaining about the pricedrop..espesially as Sigma made the rather unique offer to compensate those who had bought the SD-1 at the original price.
Please provide evidense when making statements like the above....

3 upvotes
solarsky
By solarsky (Jul 1, 2012)

BS.

1 upvote
RussellInCincinnati
By RussellInCincinnati (Jun 30, 2012)

Have little respect for boring comments about features of a camera that are obvious to all. Complaints about a fixed-lens camera because the lens is not interchangeable. Complaints about a thousand dollar camera because it costs $1000 dollars. Insulting to the intelligence of all forum readers who are capable of parsing written English.

Sergey for example, to make non-disprovable, non-informative statements such as "unreasonably high prices or lack of value" is a waste of forum space. Because it is unlikely that any reader needs to be informed of their own feelings about the Sigma DP2's price. Nor does your statement that the Sigma DP2's unique sensor (which can't be purchased in any camera costing less than 1000 dollars) give us any specific, non-obvious information as to a wise person's opinion of the relationship between the DP2's cost and its "value".

Just because some vague opinion can't be disproven doesn't mean it's worth posting.

5 upvotes
Pr0peller
By Pr0peller (Jun 30, 2012)

I'll add: misinformed, ignorant, impotently jealous opinions..

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Jul 2, 2012)

Absolutely true. But if you really want to read stuff you already know, nothing beats Popular Photography. What irks me is the childlike need to love or hate products or entire companies, along with the inability to honestly assess a camera or lens which usually means it has strengths and weaknesses. Constant 5-star reviews only make sense in a world where everything is above average.

0 upvotes
brad ersly
By brad ersly (Jun 30, 2012)

I have a multitude of cameras - a cannon 40D, a cannon g12 and a sigma dp1. I love the Dp1 for landscapes but for anything that moves it just feels like it is way too slow to make shooting easy. Think of how nice a DP1 would be if they could make it work like a cannon G12. This is what a large number of people would desire. Right now we all pay a hefty price in usability for the sigma sensor.

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 30, 2012)

Also Sergey, in an earlier post you say sigma owners defend any sigma camera despite its faults; and finish your 'analysis' of the camera and it's owners by summarising there can be no joy in a such an expensive system with its limitations. Like any high performance sports car owner who pays a fortune for what is in esense a car, and who also probably also spends the same amount again on maintance and repairs ... And has to put up with uncomfortable driving positions, poor gear changes, lack of refinement in some cases etc etc, they do it because of the joy the car delivers which completely overrides all the negatives. As I write my Porsche is in the garage 'again' and all my friends laugh ... but I ignore them all because I know their opinions mean absolutely nothing ... How can they coment on the lack of joy my car must bring when they've never owned one themselves!

As usual then, DP full of people with no experience giving opinions not based on fact. Please be quiet.

7 upvotes
squared9
By squared9 (Jun 30, 2012)

Nice comparison!

When I drive Lamborghini Murcielago, the speeds up to 150 mph are extremely uncomfortable. But above this speed, the car absolutely rocks! Driving above 200mph in a curve and the car is just glued to the road - what an amazing feeling! However, the maintenance is hell, a simple part exchange costs a plenty of money, it consumes way too much fuel, the taxes are ridiculous... All in all, there is only one thing this car excels at, and it's worth it! (I live in Germany, so you can go as fast as it gets)

Sigma is similar - the photography process is very basic and uncomfortable, however the results you can achieve in the areas it excels are second to none!

7 upvotes
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jun 30, 2012)

Good sports car analogy but flawed. this camera is more like a 400 HP engined sports car with leaf springs, fixed axils, and recircling ball steering. Fun for some of you, but a lot of hard work for the rest of us and also trouble finding a really flat, wide and rogh straight road in order to get that acceleration long enough for a rush :)

2 upvotes
Auke B van der Weide
By Auke B van der Weide (Jun 30, 2012)

I ride an expensive bicycle; heavy frame, rohloff hub, fat tires, hydraulic brakes, ceramic rims. It makes me sweat to ride fast, but with some patience and concentrarion it makes amazing pictures.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
SigmaChrome
By SigmaChrome (Jun 30, 2012)

Bravo! Well said.

0 upvotes
Badbatz
By Badbatz (Jun 30, 2012)

Man, I drive a Porsche 911 and it is a fantastic high perfomance car with plenty of creature comforts, silky gearbox and a cupholder... Bad analogy!

If you REALLY like Sigma then exert some pressure on them to actually build a modern, functional camera around their sensor, because as the things stand now, it is a sensor that performs well under certain, narrow conditions (= takes lots of unnecessary effort to get acceptable results) clad in a crappy, underengineered body with medieval AF and AE subsystems. (That applies to all Sigma models.) I did buy the original DP1 but could never make any sense out it even though WHEN it worked (= static subjects in good daylight) it worked OK.

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 30, 2012)

Sergey ... it IS a good analogy and how the hell can you say its flawed when you haven't EVER even tried a Sigma!!!!!

As I keep saying, buy yourself a sports car, drive it and THEN (ONLY THEN) will your opinion be of any relevance!!!

I'll say again, the Sigma was a dog to use and it wasn't always my 1st choice for photography ... but when I did take it out, the fun was all about seeing if you could capture that perfect shot. In the right conditions the Sigma always delivered ... but sometimes, just sometimes, if you got it all right, you got a shot to end all shots. And that my friend was the joy of photography and using the Sigma ... just like when I get in my car, I have nowhere for my drink (LOL), its noisy, it drinks petrol, it costs a fortune to run and maintain ... but still, it puts the biggest smile on my face and I feel like a million dollars! Thats what my Sigma did for me ... and you'll NEVER understand that and your comments will be worthless until you try for yourself!

3 upvotes
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jun 30, 2012)

Your argument is unfortunately also flawed like your analogy, Chad, that just because I never tried a Sigma, I cant say it is flawed. Of course I can, anyone can read specs and use his head and analyse can say that. Do I have to jump off a cliff to know it can hurt very bad? Do I really have to buy some poor product that 99.9% of people reject to know it is flawed?

Apparently your thinking and your sense of fun are also flawed and bought these Sigmas. You got a right to be mad though, as you besides suffering them also have to defend them, and your intelligence. Have "fun" with your great toys. Keep buying them. LOL

You realise your rudeness and anger proved that you are hurt and you cannot stand anyone pointing out the flaws of your expensive mistakes. Are they really so frustrating? Sigh.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
3DSimmon
By 3DSimmon (Jun 30, 2012)

Great analogy Chad! well said. Photographers who judge cameras purely on spec's and not on image performance will never understand that concept.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Jul 1, 2012)

"Your argument is unfortunately also flawed like your analogy, Chad, that just because I never tried a Sigma, I cant say it is flawed."--- Sergey, the reality is that virtually *every* camera that has ever been introduced can be considered "flawed" by someone. And this is particularly true for internet forum denizens who have nothing else to do, and whose forum posting skills are probably a lot better than their photographic skills.

*Every* camera is "flawed" in some way or another, especially to *whiners*. So don't think you're some kind of genius for saying that a camera is "flawed". Any buffoon can saying that. It's very, very, very easy to be a trolling, whining ninny. Sadly, that's the only thing some people are good at. The rest of us are out taking great pictures, and not obsessing over this or that "flaw". Heck, if you pick up an old Leica rangefinder, you can say, "Wow, this camera is so flawed!" So what? Great photogs have shot great photos with it.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
hovanphoto
By hovanphoto (Jul 1, 2012)

Well said! But you will never get through to these people. This is the Internet and it is what these geniuses do.

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jul 1, 2012)

Nicely put all! It really annoys me when people come on these forums with comments based on spec sheets of all things! Using my car analogy again, my dads Lexus is a beautiful car and you could say its perfect in every way. On the other hand, an old mark 1 MR2 I used to own, in comparison (and on paper) was a dog ... But which do you think brought the biggest smile and 'drove' the best!

Now, I CAN go on Toyota and Lexus forums and give my opinion on these; not because I can read a f******g spec sheet but because I've actually drove them. As such Sergey, might I suggest you buy a Sigma, then a NEX (As I have) and THEN coment ... To which your opinion will be respected because you talk via experience ... Not reading a spec sheet like any idiot with a brownie camera (who thinks they know about photography). Until you've done that, your INCORRECT opinion will mean squat :o)

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jul 1, 2012)

Actually, just read Sergeys comment properly. Hurting? Jesus, what a grade A a-hole! For your info Sergey, I saw a lot of postings about the Sigma; and most people said the camera operation was poor ... But most also said they put up with this due to the IQ quality. Rather than bitching and talking ***** like you, I went and purchased one to see for myself. As such, what I say about the Sigma means 100% more than you could ever say!

I happened to love the camera, despite it's flaws and I'll certainly be looking at buying a Merill alongside a NEX7. That's not because my thinking is 'flawed' or because I like buying 'toys' (idiot!) ... and as for mistakes ... well a bigger mistake than me buying a Sigma is DP letting fools like you comment!

I defend Sigma because I've tried and I liked ... What's your excuse for being an idiot?

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 30, 2012)

Sergey ... What do you mean 'it has the least capabale body and lens'?

Hmmm, yet another person that's probably never owned a DP let alone held this model giving their opinion ... Based on?????

Might I suggest you buy a DP1 or 2 and photograph in the environment it was made for, and sure, experience all it's bad points but also experience the fantastic pictures it produces thanks to the Fovean sensor! It's what I did ... I put my money where my mouth was, bought one and had a blast ... So I think I can comfortably give my opinion and say your statement 'it has the least capabale body and lens', is probably wrong (probably because I have never held this latest model .... Just like everyone else who's judging it harshly).

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jun 30, 2012)

It is an interesting but crazy year, with all these half-baked or experimental camera launches, probably as a result of fear of and the need to respond to the significant breakthrough in the Sony NEX-7. So many daring, different and absurd designs just rushed to the market apparently, ready or not. Fuji released a "pro" camera with no IS in any lenses or in the body and poor focusing (X-Pro1), and also cameras with orbs (X10 and X-S1), Canon a super "compact" G1X with a large-ish sensor but really unexciting features/performance. Almost forgot the Pentax yellow brick (K-01) with very limited features except for Sony's sensor and its nice IQ, Nikon a smaller 1-inch sensor V1/J1 trying to resist change just like Canon, and giving good IQ only in DSLRs, and now Sigma has this ultimate image small camera, but it has the least capable body and lens to capture that great image. Only thing common seems to be all their unreasonably high prices or lack of value.

Then there is the OM-D E-M5.

4 upvotes
Charrick
By Charrick (Jun 30, 2012)

You speak the truth, Sergey.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Jun 30, 2012)

@Sergey- perfect products don't just grow on trees. Product development, and getting products to market, is actually a lot more challenging than it looks. Of course, from a consumer's perspective, you just see products magically appearing out of nowhere for you to buy. But there's no "magic" behind it, and achieving perfection (or at least perfection in the eyes of Sergey Borachev) is a bit tougher than you think.

And yes, there are time constraints. If you don't get a product to market, you don't make money. That might not fit your naive, idealistic, rosy perspective of how things should be done, but the fact is companies can't simply delay products indefinitely until it is completely immune to the criticism of every internet yahoo who thinks they can do a better job.

Plus, to imply that *all* these products have "unreasonably high prices or lack value" is just childish. "Waaah! I want my toys the way I want them, and I want them cheap!"

We live in a spoiled society.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
3DSimmon
By 3DSimmon (Jun 30, 2012)

Sergey, sounds like you need to go out and get a job :), if you want a cheap camera buy a model that's 5 years old. New technology needs to be funded somehow.

1 upvote
solarsky
By solarsky (Jun 30, 2012)

Propaganda; and you're not even bad at it...

1 upvote
SigmaChrome
By SigmaChrome (Jun 30, 2012)

Least "...capable lens". Are you serious? It is probably one of most capable primes around... or are you one of those people who believe zooms are superior.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (Jul 1, 2012)

The DP1 has many limitations, but the lens ain't one of them.

0 upvotes
solarsky
By solarsky (Jul 4, 2012)

omph

1 upvote
MarceloSalup
By MarceloSalup (Jun 30, 2012)

Spending $1000 for a 30mm fixed non-interchangeable F1:2.8 lens which is also slow seems pointless.

1 upvote
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jun 30, 2012)

There seems to be different reactions/feedback from Foveon camera owners here:

1. Defend any Foveon camera and forgive whatever faults it has;
2. Admit faults like green tinge and its dreadful slow speed (ISO and operation);
3. Hope that the new camera is better in those faults; and
4. Point out that under the right conditions, images are spectacular.

It is hard not to be intrigued by this Foveon. I do believe that it is capable of breathtaking images. I hope its development continues and that we will see a camera in the near future that does deliver its great images more often, much easier and at lower cost to make it worthwhile for more. At this time, it is just too hard for most to justify paying this much for a camera with so many significant limitations in features generally regarded as essential to the joys of photography.

Thank you.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
solarsky
By solarsky (Jul 4, 2012)

darn such a nittle

1 upvote
Rob13
By Rob13 (Jun 30, 2012)

Under certain conditions my DP2 produces breath taking images.

In many situtaions I get green tinging creeping into the photos, especially when there are parts of the back ground are light in color or white.

Will this iteration be any better.

Increased speed and more pixels is ok but stands far done my very short list of critical improvements. My list has only ONE item. Please get rid of that green tinging and I'd buy another Sigma in a blink of an eye!

4 upvotes
Morons
By Morons (Jul 1, 2012)

Excuse me Sir but when you say, "Under certain conditions my DP2 produces breath taking images", I don't think you're right.

In fact, I did NOT SEE ONE breathtaking image taken from any Sigma offering whatsoever, DP2 or other, and the most hype in this respect seems to be a certain "Rytterfalk"'s homepage whose holder is considered by fanboys the ultimate craftsman re Sigma, and who among his numerous publishings did NOT publish ONE decent photo.

This phenomenon is not Sigma only I must say; most Leica photos published nowadays do NOT represent ANY artistical value whatsoever, if they are not outright last-rate, which is the case for most of them.

So, Sigma fanboys touting Foveon's ability to produce "breathtaking images" (under the right circonstances or not) should start giving examples, i.e. produce links, to RESULTS of their assertions. In the continuing absence of these, please permit me to call you liars.

0 upvotes
MPA1
By MPA1 (Jun 29, 2012)

My DP2 s is a paperweight. Worst camera ever from a usability pov.

Images can be great but AF etc all far too slow to make it a useful item. Hope this is a lot better.

Comment edited 15 seconds after posting
1 upvote
MPA1
By MPA1 (Jun 29, 2012)

You'll be paying MSRP if you're not in the USA! Many other nations do not have the discounting that US stores have - but as usual, DPR forget not all readers live in the USA.

1 upvote
Zig Ermeson
By Zig Ermeson (Jun 29, 2012)

Sigma deserves a credit for this camera. They were somewhat pioneers with the dp1 and dp2, I'm sure this camera will appeal to people who want the best IQ. But at this price, it's only for the die-hard Foveon fans.

2 upvotes
sensibill
By sensibill (Jun 29, 2012)

I don't think you need to be a 'die hard Foveon' fan to see the IQ potential with this. I had a DP1s and it was adequate as a pocket camera with occasional moments of sheer brilliance (as long as you didn't need to crop a lot). This looks basically like a pocket SD1 with a fixed 2.8 30mm lens, which is a lot to like for under-$1K IMO

4 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jun 29, 2012)

I must say not too happy with the sample images but then the sd1 original sample images were pretty horrible. What I do still see though is color red foveon noise scotches in dark areas that seem endemic to the new 15 mp sensor and this is at the ISo 200 base setting

My dp2 could also show those but usually at higher ISos or doing more extreme shadow recovery.

I will check when raw files are floatin around but doesn't scream to me like it would do the lower light performance I want.

Hopefully the final product does stellar at low ISos in good light

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 30, 2012)

Try looking at raws, it's not like you can't get raws from the SD1 online--and this is the same sensor.

1 upvote
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jul 1, 2012)

I have looked at Raws. The sd1 has the color Spotch probl I described. But for the samples sigma has
I'll wait for
Final firmware wore passing judgement.

0 upvotes
JKP
By JKP (Jun 29, 2012)

Based on the sample photos, I like the IQ a lot. A bit expensive, but their CMOS technology is so unique and different from others that I'm almost tempted to get one.

3 upvotes
Klarno
By Klarno (Jun 29, 2012)

When the fixed-lens Sony DSC-R1 cost the same seven years ago and had a more capable lens, this kind of pricing is a joke.

Sigma isn't Fuji and they sure as heck aren't Leica either. Sigma isn't a manufacturer of luxury products, so why do they keep pricing their cameras like they are?

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jun 29, 2012)

Because the DP2m is built on the same sensor as their flagship SD1, which provides incredible IQ. And these are not your run of the mill sensors, it's the highest resolution Foveon X3 sensor to date and as such, it's not cheap to produce.

7 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 29, 2012)

Your knowledge of sigma (and photography in general) is obviously pretty poor if all you can do is compare this to Fuji! As for Sigma not being a 'luxury' brand, again, at it's price and the IQ given, I'd say the DP range certainly IS a luxury camera! Again, another opinion from someone that's obviously never owned a DP but feel they know it well enough to pour scorn on it. Hmmm!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
sensibill
By sensibill (Jun 29, 2012)

The others are right; you're basically talking out your posterior.

Sigma is producing an SD1 you can stick in a shirt pocket. That sensor doesn't need much more than a basic shell to let it shine, and even if that's all it gets, this is still an impressive thing. I wouldn't call all of Fuji and Leica's recent fixed lens endeavors exactly perfection, either.

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 30, 2012)

sensibill:

Mostly true, but this DP Merrill also needs a good lens (very likely there) and importantly it needs much better raw extraction software than Sigma Pro Photo 5.2.

0 upvotes
glasgow
By glasgow (Jun 29, 2012)

Has anyone looked at the sample images they've posted?

http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP2Merrill/samplephoto.html

They look way over sharpened - and showing extreme aliasing. And there's none of the buttery smooth dynamic range of the previous DP series. I've downloaded all of the samples and I'm disappointed as I'd been looking forward to this camera for some time. I'm hoping these are from prototypes and there's better pictures to come???

0 upvotes
solarsky
By solarsky (Jun 29, 2012)

See this thread: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=41904590

2 upvotes
wric01
By wric01 (Jun 29, 2012)

As a SD1 owner, it's slow even with the fastest 600x 90mbs compact flash, good luck waiting on the write speeds with a SD card, even if they support the new SD UH1. You can forget about using it with JPG, it's just plain poor image quality.

2 upvotes
rjx
By rjx (Jun 29, 2012)

Do people even buy Sigma cameras? I know they sell tons of lenses for Nikon, Canon, etc. But how many cameras do they actually sell? I guess they profit from camera sales otherwise I assume they'd shut camera production down.

0 upvotes
Zig Ermeson
By Zig Ermeson (Jun 29, 2012)

I think people do buy Sigma cameras, after all it's maybe the only camera available with true pixel sharpness.

3 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 29, 2012)

Yes they do, and those that do/have, like myself, have forgiven the price and all the other inherent problems based on its (IMO) STUNNING image quality!

3 upvotes
rjx
By rjx (Jun 30, 2012)

chadley_chad

Price doesn't matter too much to me. But if the IQ is as good as you mention, i'll start taking them more serious. I'm going to take a look at flickr and search for some of Sigma's high end cameras.

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 30, 2012)

The Sigma is very much a landscape camera ... i.e. don't bother trying to use it for anything in low light or moving. If you have forest fields and rivers and mountains, buildings and that sort of thing; any beautiful scenery, thats where the Sigma excels!

3 upvotes
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (Jun 29, 2012)

30mm f2.8 on x1.5 APS-C .. who will bet its identical lens to one for Sony E-mount? So this is why its so good lens.. (this X3 sensor needs best of best, very unforgiving in lens department..).

2 upvotes
ChrisKramer1
By ChrisKramer1 (Jun 29, 2012)

How much? LOL!!!

0 upvotes
SheikYerbouti
By SheikYerbouti (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm sure this will be another great little APS-C camera from Sigma. But, ahhh ... the price! $999 (£799.99 in the UK) is a lot to ask for these days, especially with Sony's compact APS-C cameras and a whole zoo of MFT cameras around. I also find the choice of 45mm equivalent a little odd for a fixed lens. Most people have long come off the idea to consider 50mm as somehow "normal". I think, a 35mm equivalent lens would have been more useful.

Provided the new Foveon sensor lives up to its promise of delivering excellent IQ, wouldn't it have been nice if Sigma had equipped this little camera with a proprietary mount (no compatibility necessary) and supplied the camera together with a set of four high quality f/2.8 pancake lenses (24mm, 35mm, 55mm/macro, 85mm), all nicely arranged in a red velvet lined gift box for, let's say, £1199.99? Am I asking too much? :-)

1 upvote
SheikYerbouti
By SheikYerbouti (Jun 29, 2012)

How can I edit my own comment here? I did it once, some months ago, but it no longer seems to work.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (Jun 29, 2012)

Great idea.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Jun 29, 2012)

I don't know why they just don't make it an MILC. How many people want to spend this much money on a fixed 30/2.8? If they can make third-party MILC lenses, why aren't they making third-party MILC bodies?

4 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (Jun 29, 2012)

Great idea. If you buy a Sigma DSLR, you are limited to Sigma lenses (where the company makes more money) or changing the mount. With these fixed lens cameras, there really isn't much more to sell, so that keeps the price high, I believe.

0 upvotes
Sergey Borachev
By Sergey Borachev (Jun 30, 2012)

That would be too logical! MILCs with say M43 mount. or MILCs with adapters to mount others' lenses. More people might be tempted to try Foveon.

With this DP2 M, it is 45mm equiv or nothing and only at f/2.8. With the SD1, it is a lot of money and having to invest in Sigma mount lenses for the sake of trying Foveon. Now, Sigma is not exactly Canon to warrant such confidence to invest in lenses, knowing you will have many models to upgrade and mount those lenses, or to be able to re-sell those lenses easily. Getting stuck with lenses that can only go on expensive but basic Foveon DSLRs is scary, and we don't know how many more if any Foveon interchangeable cameras will be released, or if they will be any good ever.

Blind greed. They must have been and still be wishing that people would all buy Sigma lenses to try Foveon cameras, which todate have mainly been very frustrating sensor boxes. Time is running out as others'sensors improve. If Foveon dies, it would be a great pity.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Gesture
By Gesture (Jul 1, 2012)

Many valid points, but online the Sigma mount versions of different lenses are sold at a lower price. Yes, if you have a Sigma SD body and a Sigma SD lens and it stops making cameras, you are "stuck" I guess. But nothing stops you from working with that camera.

0 upvotes
Abbas Rafey
By Abbas Rafey (Jun 29, 2012)

The dp1 & dp2 were having tremendous IQ and I thing this one will be great too
If you need to know the actual size you can bring similar large prints and compare. I have Sd14 and they say that it is only 4.6 but when I compare it to Nikon D200 the actual size was larger than that in d200.
Thare are allot of non sense talk get the actual image size and compare

3 upvotes
thehypercube
By thehypercube (Jun 29, 2012)

[deleted]

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
mrmut
By mrmut (Jun 29, 2012)

Hopefully, QC will not be sub-par this time.

0 upvotes
nekrosoft13
By nekrosoft13 (Jun 29, 2012)

They really shouldn't call this 46MP, this camera takes about 15MP pictures. Foveon is 3 layer and they add pixels on each layer to get the 46MP count. but in reality images produced are 15MP

0 upvotes
howardroark
By howardroark (Jun 29, 2012)

So since an 18MP Bayer sensor uses 4 pixels to get the color of one pixel and then interpolates back up to 18MP, that should really be called a 4.5MP camera? If each pixel is actually capturing color and luminance information, detail resolution should be noticeably increased above a much larger area being required to gather color and luminance then interpolating up.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
WilliamJ
By WilliamJ (Jun 29, 2012)

Oh, my ! This sensor is a 15MP and that all (anyway it's enough for most of us) ! In a Foveon sensor there are three layers, indeed, but three colors for just one pixel at the end, that's just a problem of cardinal number. We count here how many houses there are, and we don't need to know how many stairs each house have. How many houses, then ? 15MP ! How many stairs... who cares ?

0 upvotes
Zamac
By Zamac (Jun 29, 2012)

Marketing considerations aside - a Foveon 15 MP sensor is 15 MP. A Bayer 15 MP sensor is only 15 MP for luminance, half that for green and a fourth for other colours. Ask the video professional what they mean by resolution!

4 upvotes
Klarno
By Klarno (Jun 29, 2012)

But zamac, the thing is, for the sake of human perception, luminance resolution matters orders of magnitude more than color resolution.

1 upvote
thehypercube
By thehypercube (Jun 29, 2012)

@WilliamJ we don't count number of stairs, but we do count floors above and below each other towards the total square footage so your example is opposite the point you were trying to make

0 upvotes
WilliamJ
By WilliamJ (Jun 30, 2012)

Sorry but you don't understand as it seems. We are not makers but users. As a maker, Sigma sure count how many photosite it had to make: 46MP. As a user, we count how many point make the final picture: 15MP. When you go to print a photo taken with a Sigma SD1 ou 2, your computer/printer will show a 15MP that can be printed at the size of a 15MP. I agree the Sigma cameras need to be judged according to another criterium - the depth of color - but on the only basis of resolution, 15 doesn't mean 46.

0 upvotes
Johan Borg
By Johan Borg (Jun 30, 2012)

No, when you go to print a photo taken with a Sigma SD1 or DP2M, your computer/printer will show a 15MP that can be printed at the size of a 30MP from any other manufacturer. Both from experience by us actual Foveon users as well as in theory:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2010/10/05/Sigmainterview

1 upvote
WilliamJ
By WilliamJ (Jun 30, 2012)

The point is for you. I admit the fact the colors are at 100% per pixel and the needlessness of the low-pass filter that is necessary to a Bayer-filter-type sensor are two very important criteriums. Yet the only criterium of the final resolution still is what it is. For sure the EXR-type sensors of Fujifilm and the Foveon would deserve a new criterium to be created. The sensor would be called then a 15MP-E2 (standing for 15MP-with a possible by-2 Extension when printed) but things must be called properly, that's the point. And ultimately, as you can see on the Sigma official webpage (cf: http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP2/specification.html ) the sensor is presented as a "Effective Pixels 14.06MP (2652×1768×3 layers)" and it tells all. No need to be more Catholic than the Pope. Sincerly yours.

0 upvotes
dlj
By dlj (Jun 30, 2012)

The comparison is far more complex than anything a spec sheet contains, or even a 'gut-feel' calculation from your known facts.

To help speed an end on this debate (at least on this page), this sensor is generally agreed to deliver output comparable to around around 24-32 megapixels. And FWIW, every Foveon image can be upsampled (not kidding) by a factor of two (now we're talking huge!), while preserving tons of quality. Don't forget that Bayer cameras (including Fuji) interpolate on every single image (and most other cameras add a blur filter too).

Finally, the nature of the Foveon sensor allows it to record more subtle colour nuances per-pixel than most current state-of-the-art Bayer sensors. The flipside issue is that it often takes more effort than a single click in a RAW developer to bring that colour back, but it's frequently 'in there'. Don't buy a Foveon unless you're prepared to do some work to get the best image quality possible, and under good conditions.

0 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 29, 2012)

.... and can I add, for all those that are criticising it (mainly for price), try owning one first before you comment; because it actually is a CRACKING quality camera ... just a shame about the price, speed etc ... but to call it without owning it ... well, I think being should know what they're talking about before passing opinion.

1 upvote
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 29, 2012)

IQ wise, the Sigma DP1 I used to own produced some of the most glorious shots I'd ever seen. It was only everything else that let it down; the price being the final nail in the coffin!

Shame then as it seems too little too late this time round.

1 upvote
Pr0peller
By Pr0peller (Jun 29, 2012)

Why manual focus? Because autofocus is useless in some cases, like shots of birds in deep foliage
Why 46M sensor? Because you may crop the aforementioned birds, and still get an excellent image.. No need for zoom..
Why 45mm lens? Because you may take pics at 1/45sec or lower, hand-held without problems..

I'd say you'd need some knowledge of photography before throwing stones on dpreview..

5 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Jun 29, 2012)

You are going to shoot birds deep in the foliage with a 45mm lens! :)

46MP cropped to the equivalent of even a 225mm zoom would leave you with 1/16 the resolution, or 1.8MP. Since this really only gives 30MP of resolution, we are talking more like 1MP. AMAZING!!!

So if a 45 lets me take pictures at 1/45, then a 10mm lens would be even better!

Those weren't very good zings you threw at the stone throwers.

5 upvotes
Pr0peller
By Pr0peller (Jun 29, 2012)

I am talking from experience - I am not a dpreview theoretician :-)
And yes, with a 10mm lens you can shoot at 1/10sec handheld witout worrying about shake, and you don't need auto focus at all. Amazing, isn't it? This is photo theory!
And one more advice for pixel peepers -go visit a museum, look at paintings, you may learn something useful for your photography..

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Elaka Farmor
By Elaka Farmor (Jun 29, 2012)

Pr0peller, you are really funny :-)

2 upvotes
WilliamJ
By WilliamJ (Jun 29, 2012)

By Jove tkbslc, so good so right ! Please note you succeeded in making me laugh after a hard working day, and I thank you so much. You're so right to use of irony when someone's talking about taking pictures of birds in deep foliage with a 45mm. It must be a very big bird with a very big beard, am I wrong ? Or is that instead a big bear with a very big birdie ? Anyway, it's not as easy as it seems to achieve such a shot for sure !

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Thanks for giving us a very obscure example of "why manual focus." LOL. You're grasping at straws. Yes, we all just love to take pictures of birds hiding in deep foliage!

0 upvotes
J Birn
By J Birn (Jun 29, 2012)

It's really a 14.6 MP sensor in terms of the number of pixels. Yes, it has three layers so they say x3, and will hopefully have high quality per pixel, but if you crop out the center 1 or 2 MP to get a bird, you'll only have a 1 or 2 MP image left to print.

0 upvotes
Pr0peller
By Pr0peller (Jun 30, 2012)

Elaka,

Sadly, I have to join in the big laugh. As reported in the NY Times, curators have long lamented how little time museum patrons spend in front of works; a 2001 study by the Met found the median viewing time to be only 17 seconds. That is, for those who set their foot in a museum at all, and the time spent is probably for listening to a recording of the history of the object at hand..

0 upvotes
VadymA
By VadymA (Jun 29, 2012)

There are better alternatives than this camera for 99.999% of photographers.

1 upvote
D Cox
By D Cox (Jun 29, 2012)

From which it follows that there are many thousands of photographers for whom this is the best alternative.

1 upvote
VadymA
By VadymA (Jun 29, 2012)

Yes, and I am glad this tool is available to those photographers now. Others probably said it better than me - this is a special tool for special purposes; not a snapshot camera. More like a prime lens I would say.

2 upvotes
farrukh
By farrukh (Jun 29, 2012)

What a waste of a great sensor, 2 years too late :/

2 upvotes
WilliamJ
By WilliamJ (Jun 29, 2012)

Right ! This sensor deserve a better use, with a decent AF and a fast-and-furious buffer to manage complexity of the pictures it can generate. That's a little bit the same problem for Fujifilm's EXR that is really awesome (and let me tell you I was absolutely not a Fuji-boy until recently) when it can be used properly, both in color and in B&W. Is it a problem of finance, of engineering, or what for Sigma ? I think Sigma should better ask for an association with Panasonic in order to sell its fantastic Foveon in a good little body, with a decent zoom and a fast AF. Living in Japan, a fast AF is totally necessary to me as there are nowadays so many places where you can find a "photo forbidden" sign on your path, a damn paradox for "the" so-called country of photo...

0 upvotes
abolit
By abolit (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm gonna throw up right now.

0 upvotes
solarsky
By solarsky (Jul 4, 2012)

And what did throwing up make you feel like?

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (Jun 29, 2012)

Sigma should make a mirrorless system using this sensor. Make the flange distance as small as possible to accommodate other lenses... and actively promote the use of third party lenses.

I bet lots of people would buy a Foveon digital back to use with their existing lenses.

11 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Jun 29, 2012)

Fixed focAl + fIxed Lens = FAIL

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
1 upvote
sirkhann
By sirkhann (Jun 29, 2012)

Go tell Fuji and Leica that ;)

11 upvotes
carlosdelbianco
By carlosdelbianco (Jun 29, 2012)

And Carl Zeiss, Hassie, Mamiya... Yeah, they're all garbage.

3 upvotes
WilliamJ
By WilliamJ (Jun 29, 2012)

I know for sure it's not an "absolute truth" as there are some askings for fixed focal, but I think the comment of Peevee1 is to be understood as "for most photographers" rather than "for every photographers". As most of us have almost no control on the subject we shoot at, nor on the global luminosity except when we use a flash, it's important to be able to change of focal, either with a zoom or another lens.
Then I partially agree with him, at least when thinking to "the mass of us". For others, of course, there is a market that has to be satisfied: high-end studio photographers, exigeant portraitists, pin-sharped fine landscapes enthusiasts and last but not least super-snobs who will always be happy to pay 10 000 dollars for a camera they won't ever be able to use better than a 67 dollars one. But the important is to use a "pro-camera" in front of their super-snob friends, you know...

0 upvotes
JadedGamer
By JadedGamer (Jun 30, 2012)

I am sure "different" is not written "FAIL". Not everyone want an interchangeable lens system or a zoom lens' disadvantages.

0 upvotes
CarlPH
By CarlPH (Jun 29, 2012)

Very solid IQ, coming from a very unassuming package

2 upvotes
chekist
By chekist (Jun 29, 2012)

Sigma... What roller coaster! "I will sell it of one million dollars! No, $10,000 dollars! No $999? Fifty bucks?" It is very cool to have a truly pocketable camera with such resolution... But still, what is the practical application? Who are those photographers that *need* MF performance, but insist that camera has to fit in jeans pocket, and willing to sacrifice last 10 years of camera advances for that.

1 upvote
Marshalls Camera
By Marshalls Camera (Jun 29, 2012)

I am one. I use a Canon Powershot S95 because I can put it in my pocket and it gives great shots. I understand it does not compete with DSLR cameras but I get many more shots with the pocket camera due to it's size

5 upvotes
3DSimmon
By 3DSimmon (Jun 29, 2012)

we are all individuells, great pictures don't have to come from big cameras

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
4 upvotes
WilliamJ
By WilliamJ (Jun 29, 2012)

The same than Marshalls. I would love to be able to go around everyday and all day long with my beloved 7D and two or three lenses in my bag. Yet it's not always feasable. I was used to have a "second partenaire" (Canon G10) but in reason of it's very slow AF and poor over-400-ISO performance, I've bought a Fujifilm that really fits in my pocket. And be sure I'm using it my heart long !

For the rest, I agree this slow and mostly-low-iso camera has to be used for very special purposes... or just tourists who want to capture the shinny blue of the sky of Brisbane or the green sea of Jamaica, the multi-color flower market of Bangkok or the rusty and mossy old house they have found in a remote village of England. Nice colors are one of the main point for neophytes who want to impress their little-bit-less-novices-than-themselves-friends.

0 upvotes
chekist
By chekist (Jul 1, 2012)

All of you are missing the point. I am not asking why not just use D4 all the time... There is DP2 (non-merrill) that has been around for years. If you are using S95, you are not getting the best quality that is available today, why do you care now? How many of you thought that resolution of DP2 was holding you back? I hope none. problem with DP2 was not the resolution, so I do not see how resolution can make it more appealing.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (Jun 29, 2012)

The cameras do have limitations, but, until recently, this was the most compact, quietest, best lens and image quality (under specified conditions) for the total price camera. Now, we do have Canon, Leica, Fuji, soon Sony with APS-C/near APS-C sensor in a compact package. I will go out on a limb and call the previous DP lenses exceptional. The lens and a very smooth shutter may be as valuable as the sensor on this model. I would have preferred 40mm effective focal length, however.

2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 29, 2012)

Leica is not new to this game; they've been in it for years, see the Sony sensored X1, which Fuji heavily borrowed from for the X100.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (Jun 29, 2012)

Not the real point here but I believe the Sigma DP1 preceded the Leica X1 to market by a year and the announced concept even more so. Sigma really did pioneer this concept, acknowledged in many reviews at the time. Back to the main points: THE LENS and the SHUTTER. Foveon has advantages/disadvantages. The value of each: Sigma DPM, Leica X2, etc. will be determined by consumers. I do give Sigma and Fuji credit for trying to advance alternative sensors. No doubt, Sony makes an exceptional sensor.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 29, 2012)

Gesture:

Not saying that the Leica X1 was first, just that Leica is not new to this game as was posted above. Suspect too that the Leica X1's lens is a bit faster than that on the DP1.

0 upvotes
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