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Nokia app increases pressure on camera makers to smarten up

By dpreview staff on Jun 20, 2012 at 22:57 GMT

Nokia has shown-off an app including photographic features unlike anything yet available in compact cameras - suggesting camera makers will need to consider apps if they're to remain competitive. The Camera Extras app includes a 'Smart Group Shot' mode that takes five images and chooses the 'best' faces for each of the subjects. It's also possible to manually select which face you want for each of your subject. It's a useful and consumer-friendly feature that helps to underline the challenge that compact camera makers face - competing not just with the convenience and connectivity of smartphones, but also their app-based approach that allows extra features to be offered, separately from the normal model development cycle.

This flexibility, and the increased software development effort that a potentially profitable app market can help to foster, means smartphones risk making conventional compacts look out-of-date almost as soon as they're released. While several camera makers are looking to offer the convenience of improved connectivity, the existence of this kind of feature-adding photo app suggests that they might need to offer app-ready cameras, if they're to really compete with the rise of the smartphone.

Camera Extras was developed by Scalado (a software maker all-but bought-out by the Finnish handset maker last week), which has caught our attention before for its difference-based 'Remove' technology (that sadly hasn't appeared as a standalone app, despite the company recently starting to sell apps to the public). The Smart Group Shot feature appears to be an implementation of the company's 'Rewind' technology, that is also likely to underpin a similar feature RIM has demoed for its forthcoming BB10 operating system.

Comments

Total comments: 141
Pierre Daigneault
By Pierre Daigneault (Jun 24, 2012)

Most people seem to have not read the article correctly. It clearly states;
It's also possible to manually select which face you want for each of your subject.
So you don't have to let the camera choose. You can choose.
I am a 'single camera' guy. Done my time carting around enough kit, so I really want an 'all in one' deal. For me the phone will never replace my camera. However my camera is not always used for serious photographic work. Sometimes I am simply taking 'record shots' and often I find that I have captured one person in the group blinking. I think that this could be a useful app in many situations. And....yes....you would be surprised how in many instances only the head or facial expression moves.
Well done Nokia. A useful and interesting little app. Maybe not for the serious creative photographer, but certainly for us mere mortals.

1 upvote
solarider
By solarider (Jun 23, 2012)

Optimally it would be a great thing personally to have a camera only model, phones change too quickly anyway. I'd love just the camera as I hardly use phones. I'd love something like this made more compact without the phone guts that can take high quality images that I could carry in a pocket with ease. Dream on ;-)

Nokia could have a camera only line I suppose, likely not their forte'.

0 upvotes
wy2lam
By wy2lam (Jun 23, 2012)

very nice...compacts ARE getting out of date!

4 upvotes
Roger Knight
By Roger Knight (Jun 23, 2012)

Yes you are correct and more especially when you consider Nokia 808 PureView which pretty much blows all viewfinderless cameras out of the water in both useability and image quality together with amazing photo print quality shots which print A3 size prints at 5 MP from the original 38/41 MP by using interpolation and the very advanced Carl Zeiss optics that provide an f2 aperture opening right through the zoom range. Why would one buy an advanced Panny LX5 or similar class camera when the smartphone camera is superior and has apps with it when it gets to LUMIA windows phone 8 Smartphones? Add to that the fact that many cameras of that class can not be operated very well unless you have Asian sized fingers and that counts me out for most small cameras.

Comment edited 53 seconds after posting
1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 23, 2012)

Roger Knight:

Does the Nokia 808 shoot raw?

I've seen some nice daylight pictures with the 808, but...

F 1/2.4 is not F 1/2.0.

"Asian sized fingers", really?

The Panasonic LX5 and the Canon S95 have optical zooms. You can mount filters on the LX5 and a flash too.

Also I'd like more information on the successes and failures of plastic lenses--the Nokia 808 uses a plastic lens. (It may very well work, but to use plastic in purportedly high quality optics raises the immediate question of other plastic lens examples from Zeiss.)

0 upvotes
peter42y
By peter42y (Jun 23, 2012)

I do not believe compacts are getting out of date. What about optical zoom ? phone cameras do not have optical zoom. Besides compact cameras will get larger sensors . In other words : They will keep their edge compared to cell phone cameras .There always will be enthusiasts that are prepared to carry some extra weight in order to get better quality. Billions love photography.

1 upvote
happypoppeye
By happypoppeye (Jun 24, 2012)

One big problem with camera phones ...they are expensive or you have to pay a monthly fee ...my little panasonic p&s doesn't comes with a monthly charge and I don't have to keep it under a two year contract ...and it was under 200 bucks ...most of the camera phones we are talking about are more than the price of an SLR.

1 upvote
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 25, 2012)

@ HowaboutRAW
So Carl Zeiss Optics are Plastic? were did you get that info from
This is straight from the spec sheet on DPreview about the lens

Carl Zeiss Optics
Focal length: 8.02mm
35mm equivalent focal length: 26mm, 16:9 | 28mm, 4:3
F-number: f/2.4
Focus range: 15cm – Infinity (throughout the zoom range)
Construction:
• 5 elements, 1 group. All lens surfaces are aspherical
• One high-index, low-dispersion glass mould lens
• Mechanical shutter with neutral density filter
Optical format: 1/1.2”
Total number of pixels: 7728 x 5368
Pixel Size: 1.4um

So I read One high-index, low-dispersion glass mould lens

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 25, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

Try this link for confirmation of the plastic lens in the Nokia 808: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/03/07/Nokia-808-Pure-View-Windows-for-US

Note the words: "molded plastic design".

Also notice a "glass mold lens" does NOT mean a glass lens; that would be a glass mold of a plastic lens.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 25, 2012)

I will give you this one ;)
What makes you think that other camera phone lenses are not made from Plastic?
I would think all phone camera lenses are made from plastic after reading the explanation on how the lens was made

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 25, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

The point is I want to know more about high quality optics done with plastic--I did not assert anything about other cell phone lenses, nor did I assert that plastic is necessarily a bad choice.

0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree with you I would not have known about the benefits of plastic optics before reading the process of making plastic optics and the limitation of glass, very interesting

0 upvotes
MarceloSalup
By MarceloSalup (Jun 22, 2012)

I really don't want the camera to think or choose for me.

5 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Jun 23, 2012)

Thats fine. The good thing about modern cameras is you can turn off all the auto features and be left with manual focus, manual aperture selection, manual ISO selection, manual white balance selection etc etc and have complete control.

0 upvotes
dopravopat
By dopravopat (Jun 24, 2012)

sir_bazz:
That is exactly what I prefer, I shoot fully manual, to RAW, post-process every image. And about 1/3 of my pictures are focused manually anyway. I take AF as a nice to have feature, but do not depend on it. If the camera had a focusing screen suited for MF like the old models, I would use MF even more.

Comment edited 37 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
rondhamalam
By rondhamalam (Jun 22, 2012)

sadly Microsoft plans to leave Nokia behind

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 22, 2012)

Isn't Nokia doing its own OS now? Don't think that's Microsoft leaving Nokia behind, unless Microsoft has developed a better version of the PureView idea.

0 upvotes
jj74e
By jj74e (Jun 21, 2012)

I like how camera makers need phone companies to force them to be innovative.

Honestly, how long did they think they could just keep increasing zoom range, adding in even more silly scene modes that work well less than half the time, and adding in more pixels?

You know what, maybe they don't need innovation since "real" photographers are inspired by the creative aesthetic of making your own work, not automating it, but for other people not on their pretentious high horse all the time, it makes life a lot easier to be able to focus less on getting good pictures to save memories, and focus more on doing the things that make the memories.

Photography isn't just an art; it's a way to remember your life.

7 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 22, 2012)

Zoom range and more pixels aren't what those serious about digital cameras notice.

Frankly, zooms?

2 upvotes
Ashley Pomeroy
By Ashley Pomeroy (Jun 21, 2012)

One day a major photojournalism prize is going to be won by a chap who held his iPhone over his head and clicked the shutter two dozen times, without knowing what he was shooting; the images were selected by the phone's app and transmitted directly to the picture desk. It'll raise all kinds of issues.

2 upvotes
jj74e
By jj74e (Jun 21, 2012)

why? because pros don't rely on a little luck as well?

a good picture is a good picture. an iPhone is a tool that gives you a higher chance of being in the right place at the right time. from a business perspective, it makes sense to pay some guy who was there as long as the quality is doable than to pay some pro for some prettied up version of the same thing.

i'm not degrading the work and quality of pros; i'm just saying, an event is an event, a moment is a moment, a company isn't gonna sell less articles just because the highlights could have been better exposed and the DR could have been greater and the composition could have been more creative. big events sell themselves.

3 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 21, 2012)

@jj74e: "i'm not degrading the work and quality of pros".
Sorry - you are.
There are people who make a living out of photography. They made a huge investment, not just in gear, but also in acquiring knowledge and skills. Like many professions, photography requires study and often sacrificing one's free time. If, say, someone in a magazine prefers to use a photograph he just downloaded from facebook rather than paying a professional to photograph a particular scene or event, how does that sound to you? If that magazine pays a few bucks to a kid with an iPhone, rather than paying a professional, is it OK for you?
Photographers' fees cover all those hours spent studying and honing their skills, and incorporate the knowledge obtained and, of course, the investment in gear. And, if you think the quality of a photo taken by the kid with an iPhone is comparable to that taken by a professional, well... your "business perspective" is a twisted one.

0 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Jun 22, 2012)

Yup.

Nothing wrong with that either. And he'll be thankful that he still had a decent camera that day after opting against taking his bulky DSLR kit.

What many people here are failing to realise is that these "tools" aren't meant as a replacement for a DSLR kit but rather an addition to one's photographic tool kit.

Comment edited 38 seconds after posting
1 upvote
HDF2
By HDF2 (Jun 22, 2012)

VilardeMacedo says "...If, say, someone in a magazine prefers to use a photograph he just downloaded from facebook rather than paying a professional to photograph ... how does that sound to you? If that magazine pays a few bucks to a kid with an iPhone, rather than paying a professional, is it OK for you?"

It sounds perfectly fine to me. Technology has displaced economies and professions for centuries - from Gutenberg's press leaving monks without work (and loosening the grip of the church) to elevators with buttons eliminating the need for elevator operators - to site but two examples.

Why should photography be any different. There is still, to this day, a need for calligraphists (very few) and a need for lift operators in certain circumstances (very few). There will continue to be a need for skilled, dedicated image capturers; but some cases will be better addressed by spontaneous "amateurs" who now have the ability to be in the right place at the right time. Get used to it.

5 upvotes
chrisnfolsom
By chrisnfolsom (Jun 22, 2012)

These "apps" are going to change things - perhaps not for professionals who don't use processing - Manual with RAW....

But in reality we have had "aps" for years - Aperture Mode, Automatic Mode, Zone metering - with huge profiles to pull from and all the other auto functions of the camera including flashes and metering all panned by "purists", but they have allowed mere mortals to get better shots.

Anyone who has used any of the panoramic modes, or Multiple exposure HDR has to be impressed - I have spent hours stitching/stacking photo's and still will for my best shots, but in reality for "documentation" or event photo's it is incredible what cameras can do now.

Forcing people to use/need/feel bad about using apps and such is a bit ridiculous, when I am at a tourist spot and see people taking pictures with their phone it seems a bit crazy to me - especially when they are in my way! While you may not like what phones can do today there is NO denying how much they have improved....

0 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 22, 2012)

Some people here don't have a clue of what professional photography is, and wouldn't recognize a good photograph if it bit them on the leg. Shame. And they seem perfectly happy with mediocrity replacing professional brio, too. Sign of the times...

0 upvotes
HDF2
By HDF2 (Jun 22, 2012)

At the end of the day the person/group that makes it possible for there to be "professionals" are the ones paying the money for the end product - newspapers, magazines, art collectors, etc.

And if they don't feel the need to pay for a "superior" output because the picture on Facebook meets their needs, then guess what - how "good" a photograph might be is irrelevant.

It may still hold huge artistic value and meet all the criteria of what makes a truly great photo, but that doesn't mean someone is willing to pay for it, or needs to pay for it to achieve their objectives.

The quality of an image is not directly proportional to the value and need someone has for that image. In the past there were few economically accessible alternatives for catching a moment in time, and hence it was greatly limited to "professionals". The ubiquitousness of technology has changed that.

You can either accept that or delude yourself that just because something is "superior" it must be the choice.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 22, 2012)

Of course, HDF2. And some day lawyers will be replaced by smooth-talking wise guys because the latter can do the same job for much less; homeopathists will substitute for physicians because they make people feel better, and architects will be fired because there are so many teenage kids with great drawing skills.
"The future's so bright I gotta wear shades".

0 upvotes
ovengloves
By ovengloves (Jun 22, 2012)

I get tired of reading about "Professional" cameras and photographers. Theres way too much snobbery. Professional just means you get paid for doing it. So if you get paid for your iPhone photo your a professional.
And just because your a professional doesn't mean your any good.
Digital photography has made life more difficult for the "Professional" but hard cheese. Lifes tough these days for all professions. So either live with it or get another job.

4 upvotes
HDF2
By HDF2 (Jun 22, 2012)

Manuel, just to site one example - lawyers. They too are being replaced in droves by technology. There are many activities that have traditionally been the domain of the legal profession which is now more effectively (and cheaply) carried out by technology.

Read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/science/05legal.html?pagewanted=all

Not everything lawyers do is replaceable and there will always be activities that well trained lawyers will be best placed to carry out. But for all the other stuff, those expensive law degrees of recent grads may prove more difficult to get a good return on investment.

It's no different for photographers who have invested in equipment. Some types of work (eg. portraits) are likely to remain mostly in "professional" hands, but photojournalism is probably on shakier ground given the purpose of those types of images.

You know, the NYT probably doesn't care much if an image has a bit of noise or moire if it captures the exact moment of the event.

2 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 22, 2012)

You know, one day you'll grow up and see what the world really is like. For now it's alright to go on writing misinformed opinions. That's part of the growing process. Hopefully you'll become a discerning person in a couple of years. Or not.

0 upvotes
HDF2
By HDF2 (Jun 22, 2012)

Manuel, you seem to consider yourself an expert. I accept your superiority. Please elucidate for those of us less fortunate.

You can start by showing me where any of my comments are mis-informed or juvenile in their logic or exposition. Be specific.

You indirectly admit that entities previously using "pros" now also use sources that you consider inferior. Seems your opinion does not hold much sway with these sources, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The fact is that the more people are able to capture images of their surroundings in cheap, easy and relatively good quality (not professional level, but usable for the purposes required) the more certain types of professionals are going to lose business.

There will always be work for the Leibowitz's of the world or even good wedding photog, just not as much. That's the grown up world you seem to be ignoring.

You may not like the fact that the livelihood of some pros is threatened, but that's life. Get over it.

1 upvote
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 22, 2012)

You misinterpreted what I wrote completely. Besides, this exchange of viewpoints has transcended photography and came to the politics and society arena. I understand you're spanish. I'm portuguese. Both our countries are suffering the pressure of speculation that will lead Spain into a financial crisis (Portugal has already got there). I find it hard to believe there are still people who find this system to be any good for the people. We're induced to buy, buy and buy - only to make stockholders and speculators even richer. Some may conform to it - I don't. Where you see innocuous apps, I see a manifestation of this consumerism that is leading towards an unfair, unequal society.
And I'm not a professional photographer. I'm a lawyer who happens to have a passion for photography and knows many professional photographers. If life's hard for me, it's even harder for them. And I'm aware of copyright issues, too - and I don't like it when people applaud its systematic infringement.
Vale? :)

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (Jun 22, 2012)

The thing about many non-professional photographers is that they are often willing to give away their image or sell it cheap and let others profit from it.

Why is it that they don't understand the value of a photograph as much as the customer (and professional photographer) does? In this way they undermine the profession.

1 upvote
Bram de Mooij
By Bram de Mooij (Jun 21, 2012)

I do not feel any pressure at all. I can easily do without this app stuff.
I do not even use my Iphone or HTC one X for photography anymore.
Not good enough for me. And i do not even consider myself to be very demanding with respect to image quality.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Button Pusher
By Button Pusher (Jun 21, 2012)

We need an camera app that will just make up the picture of our ideal friends in an ideal world with lots of sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns. It doesn't need to actually take a picture at all, just render some crud for us that is 'perfect'.

4 upvotes
ppastoris
By ppastoris (Jun 21, 2012)

Looks like another technology to make everybody take exactly the same photos, like the Instagram thing =).

4 upvotes
chadley_chad
By chadley_chad (Jun 21, 2012)

Never really thought about it but yeah, instagram!!!

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Jun 21, 2012)

I want a camera that you have to pay a monthly fee to use, for as long as you live.

3 upvotes
australopithecus
By australopithecus (Jun 21, 2012)

"Honestly, if you're investing in a camera, just learn to use the freak'n thing".

Says it all !

0 upvotes
Light Adrenaline
By Light Adrenaline (Jun 21, 2012)

Now, if only someone would invent a camera that would remove distracting elements, perfectly balance exposure without ever needing filters or flash, pose the subjects, use acceptable composition strategies, not only look for missed expressions but also determine when a smile is "fake", then we wouldn't have to do anything at all!

Honestly, if you're investing in a camera, just learn to use the freak'n thing. Why you'd want a piece of software telling YOU whats best in YOUR images is beyond me. Why are you even taking photos if you can't retake it if it's crap? Seems simple enough.

5 upvotes
Tom Goodman
By Tom Goodman (Jun 21, 2012)

Amazing. No one moves anything but his/her head.

0 upvotes
Light Adrenaline
By Light Adrenaline (Jun 21, 2012)

Ha, ya, seems easier to retake a bad pic than to make sure no one moves any muscles! This is ridiculous...

0 upvotes
MichaelSpotts
By MichaelSpotts (Jun 21, 2012)

You missed the circles. This tool masks everywhere but their heads.

3 upvotes
phudson126
By phudson126 (Jun 21, 2012)

Its amazing what mobile phones can do these days with the help of different apps. Its also a bit surprising that people are still interested in investing on professional mobile phones in spite of the features available on mobile cameras today. Cameras on mobile phones are definitely a big time threat to stand alone cameras thanks to apps such as the one mentioned above.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 21, 2012)

Name a phone camera that shoots raw?

Name a phone camera that has manual aperture control?

Name a phone camera with a sensor the size of the sensor in the Canon S95?

Name a phone camera which can be used 10 feet underwater without a case?

Name a phone camera which can capture individual plays in a sporting event?

Name a phone camera with optical zoom and/or the capacity to mount other lenses (no I don't think the latter impossible)?

1 upvote
dbateman
By dbateman (Jun 21, 2012)

Walk out side and ask 10 people with point and shoot cameras what raw is? will they know, my bet is no.

You must remember the market!!!!!
Do most people buy DSLR? NO!,
do most people edit photos? No

The average consumer, the one who actually makes money for the camera companies, whats a camera that points at their kid and gets a great photo.

Phones now do this and when they do get zoom lenses that fold into the body like Sony T line of cameras. That will be the end.

2 upvotes
Zograf
By Zograf (Jun 21, 2012)

> Name a phone camera with a sensor the size of the sensor in the Canon S95?

Nokia 808 pureview - it has 1.2" sensor! -- Name a P&S camera having such sensor, 41Mpix with the flexibility to bin them for low noise and/or good dynamic range...

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 21, 2012)

dbateman:

It's a big mistake to imply that raw is limited to dslrs.

Zograf:

Happily, I was wrong about the sensor size in the Nokia 808--it is pro pocket camera sized. Any serious user is still going to want all of the data from the 808, and the software to process that data.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
guyfawkes
By guyfawkes (Jun 21, 2012)

Photographers don't seriously use cameraphones, and this is understandable. Cameraphones are primarily used by non-photographers who are primarily interested in social networking, and this is fine, and perfectly understandable.

There is really no point in knocking Nokia, or any other phone manufacturer come to it, for pandering to this market with ever increasingly versatile phones.

3 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 21, 2012)

I think the 5PM out of 41MP trick has real possibilities--at least for daylight photos.

True, this apps thing is unlikely to convince anyone.

Comment edited 39 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
davidodd
By davidodd (Jun 21, 2012)

@guyfawkes: You say that but.... OK I may not be a 'photographer' by your definition, but actually if I take out my 5D with the 70-300mm and need an (unexpected) wide-angle view I'm often glad of my Nokia N8. In good light the resolution (and depth of field!) is fantastic......

0 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 21, 2012)

According to some news I read on a rumour site, Motorola is beta-testing some apps that detect facial expressions in order to exclude faces from the framing. The "Diarrhea" app, which turns the camera off whenever someone who is about to be photographed is having a sudden urge, is expected to be launched soon. Also, they're studying an app to discharge a whiff of Calvin Klein cologne when body odour is detected. It's called "Fart & Sweat".
Finally, rumour has it that Siemens has filed a patent of an app that detects expressions of extreme grief and anguish and turns the image of the subject in a sepia portrait of his/her favourite philosopher: there will be the "Kierkegaard" and "Schopenhauer" modes, which turn on automatically when expressions of despair are detected and, for the existentialists, the "Heidegger" and "Sartre" modes, which are triggered when, in addition to anguish, traces of doubt are detected on the subject's face. Casio is said to have shown interest in these apps.

9 upvotes
Merowech
By Merowech (Jun 21, 2012)

I like to start my day with a laugh. Thanks!

2 upvotes
monkpilots
By monkpilots (Jun 21, 2012)

computer (internet) won't allow me to like your comment, understand i'm not a comment liking sort of a person, so maybe the machines are just being helpful, but anyway, you said what i wanted to say about commanders from armies of despotic (robot?) regimes shovelling bodies into open graves correct pathos recognition mode, but in a much lighter way, thanks, i'm off to buy stuff for the faraday cage my non-technical girlfriend has asked me to build and to disconnect the mains supply.

monkpilots (message transmitted on behalf of john connor)

0 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Jun 21, 2012)

As much as innovative an invention it is, or as"smart" as this app says it is, I won't let any AI algorithm disturb what my sense of beauty tells me.

I am the photographer. I decide what's beautiful and what's not. I decide which shot to use. I decide which photo is good and which one is bad, NOT MY CAMERA.

I'd hate to say this but apps like this just contribute to making people stupider.

12 upvotes
JWest
By JWest (Jun 21, 2012)

If having your camera pick the shot where everyone has their eyes open steps on your toes as a creative individual, feel free to turn the feature off. :)

13 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Jun 21, 2012)

I bet thats what they said about autofocus when Pentax produced the worlds first mass-produced Autofocus SLR system back in 1981.

Comment edited 38 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
HDF2
By HDF2 (Jun 21, 2012)

You take pictures as a form of artistic expression and want to control all aspects of that proess - makes sense.

However, most people for whom this app is targeted are trying to capture a simple moment in time with friends and family and don't really care much other than to have an image of a particular memory that they can print 4x6 or post on a blog/Facebook.

You don't need it, fine. Others for whom this is targeted will find it a welcome tool with which to ensure they capture the moment they really want to remember.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
8 upvotes
Pierre Daigneault
By Pierre Daigneault (Jun 21, 2012)

Stupider is not actually a word.....say no more.....

2 upvotes
Felix E Klee
By Felix E Klee (Jun 21, 2012)

Still you have to move around and do the framing. So the app is a bit of a disappointment. Fortunately, Sony offers help with "Party-shot Automatic Photographer":

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&partNumber=IPTDS1

0 upvotes
Caleido
By Caleido (Jun 22, 2012)

@Alizarine

You clearly don't understand the concept, the context and the target market and just saw the opportunity to spill out some empty stereotypes about photography.

Who's stupid?

1 upvote
jj74e
By jj74e (Jun 22, 2012)

Honestly, if an app that corrects faces for you threatens you and makes you feel insecure about your establishment as a photographer, you must not be a very good one.

Convenience is not the same as killing intelligence. If you came down from your photo-throne once in awhile, you would find- GASP- people who take photos just for fun or just to save the memory. Even pros aren't on their pro-mindset all the time. Saving editing/re-taking photo time means more time to make the memories that make life special

But, in defense of the OC (original commenter? lol), actually, stupider IS a word. But that's the only defense he gets.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Gothmoth
By Gothmoth (Jun 21, 2012)

oh yeah and the results will look so real...... that is why they showed no example in the video i guess.

0 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Jun 21, 2012)

Maybe the video looked so real that you didn't notice it.

It's right there at the beginning of the video. :)

1 upvote
bearseamen
By bearseamen (Jun 21, 2012)

I am sorry, I can't possibly be the only one who's getting a spinning head by this kind of horsesh**.

Taking photos is something you do in spare time, for your enjoyment. Who in their right mind could possibly enjoy beeing robbed of 90% of the entire process?

Manufactorers act as they're bringing relief to the *chore* that is "mainstream photography". If its such a tedious process of taking a picture, why would you bother in the first place? Because its a social norm to take pictures of shiny happy people in the grass? Come on >_<

Why not take this further and invent something like an automated tennis rack for the hobbyist? It would play 10 times as good as the newbie consumer who cant even get a stupid portrait straight (see what I did there?) and guess what, you wouldnt even have to play on your own anymore! Pffff, stupid hobbies, wasting all your precious time.

Oh, and also make an article on the frontpage of some big website so that people can go apeshit crazy about it >___<

5 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 21, 2012)

Q: "Who in their right mind could possibly enjoy beeing robbed of 90% of the entire process?"
A: Idiots. That's who these things are for.
Bravo for the irony, bearseamen.

2 upvotes
Caleido
By Caleido (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm sure you believe in-camera cropping and on-screen guide lines are also horsesh**?

This is just add-on to make capturing nice moments easier. Instead of taking several shots and asking people to wait and pose for a couple of more pictures, you have the option to combine the best expressions on the spot. Quicker and easier.

Why act like it is a a feature on a Nikon D4 that you can't turn off?

0 upvotes
chrisnfolsom
By chrisnfolsom (Jun 22, 2012)

Why is this an argument? "They" are not removing serious camera's when they make these "convenience devices". Every wedding that cares enough (generally) of course will hire a professional photographer as well as put out Kodak box camera's -or be disspointed......

If you "purists" out there want the good old days use film - and then you won't be on this bulletin board - what I would like would be tips on how to get the best out of ANY medium that I am stuck with at the time - I am not bringing my 5D, lenses, flashes and light kit when going out to dinner with friends - no I have not tried it ;)

"the day is near.. not .. use .. brains"???? What is that? I must say when I use my IPhone to take pictures - sometimes in HDR mode - I always get comments that my pictures look good (for what they are) as I can change the exposure level, focus point as well as pick the best lighting, angle and arrangement - not my proudest moment, but they do make some great shots...

0 upvotes
darthmuller
By darthmuller (Jun 21, 2012)

What Next?????!!!!!! Why bother? The day is near when we will not need to use our creative brains, can nobody see this coming? What happened to the days when we took pride it the photos we captured?

I really feel this is killing creativity and I hope others feel the same.

4 upvotes
Michele Kappa
By Michele Kappa (Jun 21, 2012)

The end is nearrrrrrr!!!
Oh grow up...

6 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (Jun 21, 2012)

DPReview, any news on a possible Nokia 808 review?

3 upvotes
Yannick KREMPP
By Yannick KREMPP (Jun 21, 2012)

Cool features, silly music ^_^

2 upvotes
MarkInSF
By MarkInSF (Jun 21, 2012)

Of course this will happen, but it may take another couple of OS before advanced camera features are consistently available to third party developers. Before then we'll have a few models with custom apps provided by the manufacturer (Nokia is in the lead for this, it seems.) In the long run, Samsung and Sony look to be in the best position as making a decent smartphone is much easier than making a good small camera. Nokia may manage, but they'd better hope Windows 8 is amazing. It looks promising to me, but I'm not a big Apple fan and Android's many imperfections bug me daily, so I'm open to a new phone OS.

0 upvotes
MichaelEchos
By MichaelEchos (Jun 21, 2012)

I wish they had a 'No eye blinks' feature that selects the pictures with the least eye blinks.

0 upvotes
massimogori
By massimogori (Jun 21, 2012)

Well done, Nokia!!! Cannot wait for the next step: millions pictures preloaded, complete with gps cohordinates. A single (virtual) click on the touch screen, the camera sorts out for you the best picture for your gps position and you will feel as happy as you'd taken that picture yourself.

5 upvotes
dark goob
By dark goob (Jun 21, 2012)

Why is it "Nokia app" does this? How about the bajillion iPhone apps that already have been putting this pressure for several YEARS now?

Give me a break, DPReview, this is just poor reporting. Is Nokia paying you?

Seriously.

It's about time that camera makers open-source their firmwares or at least create an API for developers to run apps on the cameras. I'm so sick and tired of the terrible camera interfaces that Japanese makers come up with. Please just give me an OM-D or 5D Mk III body with a slot for my iPhone instead of the annoying Japanese interface..

2 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Jun 21, 2012)

There's a total of seven news stories here at DPR that are tagged with the word "app". Of those seven, one of those are for Nokia and the other six are for the iPhone.

I think your accusation is a little mis-targeted.

9 upvotes
Felix E Klee
By Felix E Klee (Jun 21, 2012)

A camera with apps would be incredible!

Just one use case that I had recently: Overlay an image on top of live view. In the end I had to revert to my Android phone with an app called Camera ZOOM FX and its Composite effect. Of course there are firmware hacks, e.g. for Canon cameras, that add features, but these hacks are comparatively primitive.

Polaroid announced an Android powered camera earlier this year:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/12/PolaroidAndroid

2 upvotes
dark goob
By dark goob (Jun 21, 2012)

Olympus has had the overview over live view feature on their higher-end ILCs for years.

0 upvotes
Felix E Klee
By Felix E Klee (Jun 21, 2012)

dark goob: Can you import a picture (in this case an illustration) and use that as overlay?

Also, I have other use cases, such as remote shooting and direct uploading to the Internet.

0 upvotes
Steve Balcombe
By Steve Balcombe (Jun 21, 2012)

Canon's Remote Capture can do this, I use it quite often when I want to copy the setup of a previous pack shot. But having it on the camera could be handy too.

The difficult thing is drawing the line between silly toys (adding flowery borders) and genuinely useful (picking the best faces for a group shot - if it's seamless enough). And of course my 'toy' is another person's must-have feature.

0 upvotes
ianimal
By ianimal (Jun 21, 2012)

Apps could be nice. I guess Canon/Nikon/Sony etc are to slow to add
such a feature very soon. It must had been Nokia/Apple/Google or something
like that. A Google mirrorless system camera would maybe be interesting, skip
the phone. Or make a camera with basic mobile phone features, not as we
got it today the oposit (primary phone, and a basic camera).

But face detection or this "happy face detection" is useless for me who shoot primary landscape. Also I won't smile on demand :)

0 upvotes
davidinwellington
By davidinwellington (Jun 21, 2012)

Canon can't (won't) even include an intervalometer in their cameras. I'm sure their heads would explode at the thought of adding apps.

1 upvote
ptodd
By ptodd (Jun 22, 2012)

OK, slight disclaimer, the following could be seen as trolling, but I really do think a lot of people are rather idiotic about such things....

More likely the Canon strategists think "some of our stupider customers will think that our cameras are somehow less professional if we choose to add apps, and these people are likely to be disproportionately vocal on internet forums, so even though apps could usefully enhance the product we'll let someone else do it first".

1 upvote
waxwaine
By waxwaine (Jun 21, 2012)

I loved my nokia 5800 till it started to get stucked by ram, OS, what ever.. It´s better phone that my actual Iphone 4. Better signal. The day nokia provide reliable cellphones, I'll get back them.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
K_Photo_Teach
By K_Photo_Teach (Jun 21, 2012)

Cameras would be great if they could use GPS and the screen for finding your way if you were hiking somewhere.

Bring on camera apps!!

1 upvote
graybalanced
By graybalanced (Jun 21, 2012)

The problem with using a camera as a GPS map is that you have one more thing to drain the camera battery when you aren't even taking pictures.

0 upvotes
K_Photo_Teach
By K_Photo_Teach (Jun 21, 2012)

Like a phone!

0 upvotes
fastlass
By fastlass (Jun 21, 2012)

Check out Fuji's Landmark Navigator feature on their GPS enabled cameras. I'm not sure of the implementation, however.

1 upvote
LJohnK2
By LJohnK2 (Jun 21, 2012)

camera-phone...I always carry one in the glove box of my car-boat...love to use my camera-phone in full auto mode when my car-boat is running on auto-pilot.

0 upvotes
Peiasdf
By Peiasdf (Jun 21, 2012)

Great. People will now pay $700 for cellphone photos and replace them every two years. Custom firmware I like but I wish editing is still done on computer/iPad

1 upvote
suprjeff
By suprjeff (Jun 21, 2012)

they need to set up a factory in china and pay the workers about a dollar a week ? help out profits

3 upvotes
mmcfine
By mmcfine (Jun 21, 2012)

Ye ye, show these smiling faces to Nokia's 30,000 lay-off's. I know what they want to do to the Lumina...

3 upvotes
Mostly Lurking
By Mostly Lurking (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes, but does it get rid of pimples, warts, etc.?

0 upvotes
suprjeff
By suprjeff (Jun 21, 2012)

I just upgraded from an iphone 4s to a nokia lumia 900, and can't believe how much better it does everything, nokia just had the wrong operating system on their phones, and with windows phone 8 about ready, it's only gonna get better.

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting
6 upvotes
nofumble
By nofumble (Jun 21, 2012)

Sorry to let you know that your new Nokia 900 phone is not upgradable to WinPhone 8.

Wish your grace period has not ended.

2 upvotes
David Hart
By David Hart (Jun 21, 2012)

It's true that the Lumia 900 won't get WinPhone8, but it will get most, if not all, of the same features in a 7.8 upgrade. The difference is that WinPhone8 requires a different chipset which is why it won't work on the current Lumia phones.

So, while it's true that current Lumia users won't get WinPhone8, the conclusion that Lumia users are going to be abandoned just isn't accurate.

5 upvotes
suprjeff
By suprjeff (Jun 21, 2012)

mine works fine without an upgrade !!!

2 upvotes
rttew
By rttew (Jun 21, 2012)

Nokia: keep making failing phones that no one will buy from you.

1 upvote
Kuturgan
By Kuturgan (Jun 21, 2012)

I'll buy it. You are not everbody.

6 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (Jun 21, 2012)

"failing phones"

You clearly don't know what you're speaking about...

2 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Jun 21, 2012)

The 3310 is legend of reliability I believe.

1 upvote
Jogger
By Jogger (Jun 21, 2012)

they need an app that makes people look skinnier

2 upvotes
cyainparadise
By cyainparadise (Jun 21, 2012)

That's not hard to do, as it can be done in other photo retouching applications.

0 upvotes
AEWC
By AEWC (Jun 21, 2012)

Adobe Ligghtroom actually has that feature. Really.

0 upvotes
Bodhi Dharma Zen
By Bodhi Dharma Zen (Jun 20, 2012)

Frankly, Nokia have something BIG in their hands... I want one of their phones just because of this:

http://www.gsmarena.com/pureview_blind_test-review-773.php

3 upvotes
K_Photo_Teach
By K_Photo_Teach (Jun 21, 2012)

wow!? Maybe downsampling from tiny pixels is the way forward?!

0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 21, 2012)

You can see you know all about pixels in your pixilated world, the fact is there is no competitor near close to Nokia when it comes to cameras in phones

0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 21, 2012)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/8945391/The-worlds-first-full-smartphone-movie.html
The world first full smart phone movie shot with Nokia

0 upvotes
spacelounge
By spacelounge (Jun 20, 2012)

Ricoh is working on an ultra-compact camera, essentially a smartphone formfactor but with better physical controls, based on the Android OS.

0 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Jun 21, 2012)

for real? source please?

2 upvotes
rondhamalam
By rondhamalam (Jun 20, 2012)

What ???????
Nokia ??????
What the heck...

iPhone and Samsung Galaxy are far better, and already implementing photography features.

Nokia belongs to old people. Struggles hard but it's decision to select Windows phone is a total disaster. Lack of apps and boring interface.

If Nokia concentrates on Android it will help.

2 upvotes
Bodhi Dharma Zen
By Bodhi Dharma Zen (Jun 20, 2012)

http://www.gsmarena.com/pureview_blind_test-review-773.php

reality check

8 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 20, 2012)

Nokia is for old people? because the young people are sheep who follow the mass of uninformed followers.
Good thing we are not all hipsters who eats up everything Apple and Copy Master Samsung feeds us.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
9 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Jun 21, 2012)

Or if you want some crops compared to a FF DSLR then see here....

http://blog.gsmarena.com/nokia-808-pureview-vs-olympus-e-pl2-vs-canon-5d-mark-iii-vs-apple-iphone-4s-38mp-shootout/

4 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes its "clear" that the iPhone crops are superior and I did not even need my "old man" monocle to see that...LOL

0 upvotes
Digital Suicide
By Digital Suicide (Jun 21, 2012)

Another android child, what an idiot. Grow up, please.

1 upvote
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (Jun 21, 2012)

"iPhone and Samsung Galaxy are far better, and already implementing photography features."

You don't know what you're speaking about either. Sometimes you could read some phone camera reviews before posting this kind of uninformed post.

2 upvotes
Ikari120378
By Ikari120378 (Jun 23, 2012)

spoiled little sheep of a false cult aren't you, boy...?

0 upvotes
thx1138
By thx1138 (Jun 20, 2012)

zzzzz.

Sorry I fell asleep at the keyboard. Maybe they can release a camera that doesn't need human intervention at all. It takes the photos when it wants or sees fit.

The dumbing down of everything we do! Can't be bothered learning a skill, hey we have the app for you.

5 upvotes
boothrp
By boothrp (Jun 20, 2012)

I really don't want to alter reality that much, in the same way as I dislike photoshop making models look even thinner.
Which head do you want to stick on the body ?? Ugh !

3 upvotes
anthony mazzeri
By anthony mazzeri (Jun 21, 2012)

I see your point, but is freezing a micro-instant in time actual reality either?

The reality is we don't see the middle person half blinking when we take the photo, we see all three smiling at the camera saying cheese. So maybe think of it more as 'long exposure' to capture what we see with our own eyes, ie instead of being the best over 1/250th second in time, it would be the best over 1 or 2 seconds in time which would be more realistic in terms of matching what we actually see.

4 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (Jun 21, 2012)

I have no real problems with this technique. Taking a rapid series of images and make a photo sounds perfectly fine to me. What concerns me is that it is hard to make it high quality. Things move and areas are obscured. There will be borders where data have to be made up. Maybe its not Hi Fi photography, as so many other fun stuff.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 20, 2012)

Now raw shooing, that would be a good feature, not an "app" though.

And of course unlike jpgs, shooting raw lets one fix many more problems when using an actual application to extract and edit the photo.

0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 20, 2012)

The Nokia 808 does shoot in Raw with 41 MP and Carl Zeiss optics I'm sure Samsung will copy this on your phone with Samsung optics ;)
But hey if you listen to Apple, then the only camera you will ever need is an iPhone

4 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 21, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

Searching the internets I see no raw shooting capacity for the Nokia 808, got a link with samples?

There's the depth of field problem.

The PureView 5MP out of 41 trick does seem promising--particularly in daylight.

Perhaps Sony/Nikon will adapt this for the sensors in the D3200, Nex 5n and the D800, and improve things like shooting at ISO 6400.

I wonder does this PureView technology process raw data, or is that jpeg data?

Samsung is unlikely to make the mistake of pixel cramming in their phones--they already make the world's most popular smart phones.

Anyone who'd claim that the iPhone is the only camera one needs, would likely claim that it's not important to check engine oil quality and quantity in an automobile--the sensors can do it.

I guess Nokia could always add the raw feature and then sell this PureView software as an application for PCs and Macs, then Nokia's 808 camera phone may get some respect from those who care about a picture's qualities.

1 upvote
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 21, 2012)

What I would expect from a Samsung fan boy, you should move to North Korea and help reunite the country

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 22, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

Samsung is a South Korean company, also many in the south would like a reunited Korea, but one that is open to the world, not ruled by a family dynasty of dictators with a government enforced cult of personality. (Also North Korea is a country, not in need of reuniting--that's another problem with your languange.)

You really need to attempt to present yourself to the world as less ignorant.

It's not fan fiction to say that Samsung makes the most popular "smart" phones in the world.

You clearly haven't bothered to look at the high end Samsung TVs.

Nor have you looked at the colour changes in your engine oil.

Now why would you want someone who'd challenge your "authority" sent to live in a closed dictatorship? Isn't that the inclination of those who hold a less than secure footing in facts. And in fact very like dictators the world over?

2 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 22, 2012)

All I hear is BLA BLA BLA Samsung, BLA BLA BLA Samsung is the greatest, BLA BLA BLA I'm stupid BLA BLA BLA engine oil, BLA BLA "DICK"tator.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 22, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

So you've well proven that you can neither read nor think for yourself.

How ironic exactly the type to walk in line.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 24, 2012)

Proof that Nokia can shoot in Raw with the Fcam app made for Nokia
http://fcam.garage.maemo.org/

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 24, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

That link does not mention the Nokia 808, camera or phone. The link does talk about something called the N900.

Next problem with this purported "proof", this linked webpage mentions raw, but then goes into how this N900 shoots HDR. HDR is not the same as RAW, though HDR can be done to raw files. (Albeit whatever the file type used for HDR there'd be the limitation that the scene would need to be still.)

Some other problems with this "proof", from Wikipedia, the N900 was released in 2008, so is not somehow the same as the N808.

Then of course this 2010 FCamera software is not likely to tweak the N808 to shoot raw. (That some future variation of this FCamera software may be released to allow the N808 to shoot raw in the is certainly possible.)

So getting the terms "Nokia" and "raw" on the same webpage does not mean that the N808 shoots raw.

Last, and simply put, your "proof" is wrong. And the Nokia 808 does not record raw data. Too bad.

0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Jun 25, 2012)

Too bad just like your claim that the Carl Zeiss lens are plastric

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 25, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

You've been proven wrong about the raw shooting capacity of the Nokia 808. You seem confused by what you've claimed and also what you've read. Try putting in more effort at apprehension.

Not claiming that Zeiss lens[es] are plastic just that the Zeiss lens in this phone is plastic. Both the interview I read with the Zeiss designer of this lens and the pictures of the lens cut with a saw back me up.

Link explaining the use of plastic lenses in cellphones: http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/03/05/nokia-808-pureview-carl-zeiss-science-of-making-the-perfect-lens/

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Jun 25, 2012)

Boerseuntjie:

Also note the words, "molded plastic lens" in this DPReview piece:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/03/07/Nokia-808-Pure-View-Windows-for-US

0 upvotes
Octane
By Octane (Jun 20, 2012)

I think that hits the nail on the head. Today's cameras are very powerful computers that could run apps easily. I always said there should be some basic script language available, but of course having access to the hardware through an app would be much better. I doubt camera manufacturers will go that way. In theory it's great, but it's a nightmare to support from a manufacturer's point of view. Every camera has different features and hardware.

0 upvotes
Gesture
By Gesture (Jun 20, 2012)

Everything has a time. It took camera phones and tablets. Long past when cameras should have been programmable. Even earlier Olympus cameras (SP-320) had an amazing range of post-exposure processing you could do to an image (Now ... upload that), but that tack seems to have been dropped as software programs like Photoshop Elements prevailed. Now, we can go BACK to the FUTURE.

0 upvotes
davidwgh
By davidwgh (Jun 20, 2012)

Yeah revolutionary! I mean, us photographers can't choose what image we like. Thanks Nokia - you guys rock. Cmon DPreview... do you really think this means other manufacturers need to "smarten up"? Geez.

3 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Jun 20, 2012)

Did you watch the accompanying video?

It does a bit more than what you've managed to skim from the text.

8 upvotes
johnparas11zenfoliodotcom
By johnparas11zenfoliodotcom (Jun 20, 2012)

I posted something like this before, what if cameras now offer apps instead? ... Ha! I am a visionary LOL!

0 upvotes
Total comments: 141