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Olympus acknowledges E-M5 / 20mm banding and is working on fix

By dpreview staff on Jun 12, 2012 at 18:40 GMT

Olympus has acknowledged the banding that can appear in high ISO OM-D E-M5 images shot with the Panasonic 20mm F1.7 lens and says it is working on a fix. In the meantime, the only solution is to avoid high ISO settings when using that lens, for now. It says that it has tried 'every possible combination of body and lens,' and has not found the problem with other lenses.


Olympus statement:

'After checking every possible combination of a body and a lens, we found the phenomena only with this combination (OM-D, E-M5 coupled with the Panasonic 20mm pancake lens). We are continuing to study how we can eliminate this and we recommend for our customers using E-M5 with Panasonic 20mm pancake lens to keep a low ISO to avoid this problem for the time being.'

Comments

Total comments: 174
12
Marco Cinnirella
By Marco Cinnirella (2 weeks ago)

Has anyone compared results with the latest E-M5 firmware versus older versions of the firmware to see if they sneaked in something in the last firmware to address this, without publicly stating they had done this in the release notes?

0 upvotes
Henry Richardson
By Henry Richardson (2 weeks ago)

It has been 22 months since Olympus admitted the problem and since then they have gone silent. I haven't heard another word about this. Olympus, you admitted it and said you were investigating. At the very least have the respect and courtesy for your customers to tell us what the result is.

0 upvotes
Couscousdelight
By Couscousdelight (11 months ago)

4 months after, where is the Fix ?

5 upvotes
sheepthief
By sheepthief (Jan 26, 2013)

.

Comment edited 39 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Metapatterns
By Metapatterns (Jan 23, 2013)

I got here while searching for information on noise banding on the OM-D. I am patched to current firmware (v1.5). I noticed the noise banding in dark areas of the sky while shooting a night scene on a mountain. I could clearly see the banding at ISO800 and even down to 400 it was pretty obvious. Only at ISO200 did it *almost* disappear (still visible but not very noticeable).

Here's the kicker: THIS WAS WITH THE KIT 12-50mm LENS, not the Lumix 20mm. Also the board discussion about EM interference is probably not applicable since I was at least 300ft. away from the nearest electrical source. I'd really like to find some answers for this issue; high on my list of reasons to buy this camera was reasonable high-ISO performance (in a small package).

2 upvotes
sheepthief
By sheepthief (Jan 26, 2013)

The electrical interference is internal - nothing to do with external sources.

If you're seeing banding with the 12-50mm at 200ISO then either the camera is very hot or it's faulty.

0 upvotes
Henry Richardson
By Henry Richardson (Jan 1, 2013)

When is Olympus going to fix this? It has been almost 8 months since Olympus acknowledged this problem. I just got back from a month in Nepal and I used my E-M5 while there. I also used the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 in lower light and as I am processing the raw files in LR 4.3 today I am discovering that they all have serious banding. :-( I don't know if any of them can be salvaged. :-( By the way, I have the latest 1.5 firmware for the E-M5 and the latest firmware for the lens too.

2 upvotes
sheepthief
By sheepthief (Jan 26, 2013)

They're never going to fix it, otherwise they would have done so by now.

It's often extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fix a hardware issue with software. And given that there are Zuiko lenses in the same range, why would Olympus spend the time and money fixing a problem which would impact sales of their own lenses?

I'm sure that the admission of the problem and the claim that they're working on a fix is merely an exercise in good PR.

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Chuck Dyer
By Chuck Dyer (Nov 7, 2012)

I want to buy this lens to mount on my OM-D, but this banding problem is causing me to rethink whether I should buy this lens or consider the 25mm PanaLeica. I might wait for the Olympus 17mm f/1.7 to come out next year.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting
1 upvote
astone
By astone (Oct 31, 2012)

Is there any update?

3 upvotes
Henry Richardson
By Henry Richardson (Aug 28, 2012)

It has been 2.5 months and we are *still* waiting for this. Also, Olympus released firmware 1.2 a long time ago to fix the lockup problem with Panasonic lenses (must remove battery to unbrick camera), but a few days later they pulled the release so we can't get a fix. :-( I am *still* waiting for a fix to this serious lockup problem. Anyone know what is going on with both of these problems?

3 upvotes
Hiskrtapps
By Hiskrtapps (Aug 15, 2012)

Banding problem is present at any iso, not only 6400 or higher.

High isos only make it more evident.
Like exposure time do.
Like aperture very close do.

Obviously in optimal conditions problem is not noticeable and disappears.

I tried many long exposures last night and even a lower iso (500) problem was evident while increasing exposure time.

Hope in a fix.

Comment edited 15 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
sheepthief
By sheepthief (Aug 21, 2012)

I also discovered just the other night that high ISO isn't the only scenario to bring this issue to the fore. Long exposures and dark conditions do indeed show the same problems, even at ISO400.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gingercoo/7818423768/in/photostream

I've heard nothing recently - I'm asuming that there isn't going to be a fix. Pity, as it's a great lens otherwise.

1 upvote
Wilsing
By Wilsing (Aug 26, 2012)

Alas, I noticed this too.

However, an even greater disappointment...

I am just waiting for Fuji to return my X10 with a replaced sensor that will supposedly sort the WHITE ORB issue and now to my shock and horror I found that I can get the same issue with the OM-D E-M5 using the M.Zuiko 40-150mm

http://flickr.com/gp/just_solutions/0KM371

Is this just an odd one off or has anyone else noticed this?

Otherwise, after just a few days of playing with it I am quite happy. You can see the results here:
http://flickr.com/gp/just_solutions/c1cm23/

1 upvote
GerardA
By GerardA (Jul 13, 2012)

I tried my new 20/1.7 for this and it looks easy to find the problem.
At iso 6400 just push the preview button (to check DOF) and you see a lot of banding!

2 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (Jun 22, 2012)

I set my video button on my OM-D to Manual Focus. Works great and no more accidental videos like on my old GF1 where I could disable it or on my NEX5N where I can't. For the 5N, I am looking for a very small flat cap that I can put over it. Very annoying feature to have on a still camera. But that's progress (?).

0 upvotes
James Wages
By James Wages (Jun 20, 2012)

What's new here? I get banding on that lens with my GF-1 whenever I'm around fluorescent lighting:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/66071596@N00/5596989648/in/photostream

It drives me nuts. I too wish there was a fix.

0 upvotes
chocolate_face
By chocolate_face (Jun 25, 2012)

that's normal.

you're capturing the flicker of the lights because your shutter speed is quick enough to do it.

it's like saying you hate pictures of helicopters with their blades visible, you have to slow your shutter speed to blur it out

3 upvotes
sheepthief
By sheepthief (Aug 21, 2012)

As was pointed out to you months ago this is a completely different issue - your problem is due to the fact that fluorescent lighting changes colour very rapidly, and has nothing to do with the lens other than what shutter speed you end up with as a function of the aperture setting.

2 upvotes
leeharrisx
By leeharrisx (Jun 20, 2012)

I did a theatre shoot last night using the 20mm and 45 mm at 6400 ISO and RAW, definitely see banding, on pics shot with 20mm. I did a similar job a few weeks ago, same conditions, but shot jpegs and do not see the same problem.
Oh, and the problem seems to only exist in the shadow underexposed areas, I have to shoot more images tonight, if I use the 20mm I may try a slight over exposure as a test.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting
1 upvote
jovillaverde
By jovillaverde (Jun 18, 2012)

Hmm, I've not noticed this problem even when I was messing about at ISO 12600.

Example:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151025793040590&set=a.10151025792155590.482041.609920589&type=3&theater

By no means is it a perfect image but at that high ISO for snapshots I was happy. Unless of course Lightroom auto-corrects for it and I just never noticed.

0 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 15, 2012)

Just got mine yesterday.... Love it!

3200 iso Videos are soo clean! Cleaner than my old 5N And 5D2!!!

And of course, IBIS. Makes videos look like they were shot on a tripod, fluid head or shoulder-rig. No more need to lug around big gear for casual shooting and no more shaky footage! Awesomeness!

So far... my only gripe... no magnify in Video mode; not even with MF assist nor if setting Fn2 to
muti-function" (which includes Magnify in its' included 4 quick-chose-options). I guess I can switch from still modes to video modes quickly though. Also noticed a small bug. If your Video-mode Exp setting is set to M, it [I]Has[/I] to be in video-mode. Ie: if you hit the video-record button in m/s/a/p, even if video-mode exp. setting in the menu is set to M, it will record in Auto-Exp.

0 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 15, 2012)

....So you have to make sure your left mode-knob is always on Video-Mode if you want to shoot Manual Video...not a huge deal, but I can see that I and others will forget from time to time, especially in the heat of the moment when out shooting... and might come home to find out you just captured a bunch of clips, that are ruined because it's on auto-exposure.

0 upvotes
coroander
By coroander (Jun 16, 2012)

@fooddudeone. Easy fix: reassign the video record button to do something useful, like change ISO. Then the only way you can start video recording is to set the mode dial to Video, where the record button works like it should for video (i.e. it doesn't do ISO.)

1 upvote
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 16, 2012)

corander: Genius!

...I thought of this in the back of my head but didn't try it, because I thought the custom setting would affect/disable the button in Video-Mode-Dial too.

Thx!

edit: Just did it...doing this makes the main-shutter-stills-button the video-record button now, while leaving the custom-setting for the video-red-button as is.. awesome!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 11 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
coroander
By coroander (Jun 16, 2012)

Ah yes, that's right -- main shutter button does video. Great thing is, video still works (and the way you want it to) and you get to use the record button for something useful.

1 upvote
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 16, 2012)

Yes yes! Great tip!

No more vimeo/YT user-comments saying, "hmmm, oops, I must've left Video-mode on Auto-exp, drats!" ;)

0 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 14, 2012)

At 7:00 pm:
- Article on Olympus banding issue: 146 comments
- Update to Nikon D800 review: 122 comments
I don't know how to interpret these figures. A technical glitch seems to be more important than the review of what could be the best camera of our times. There's no rational explanation to this.

0 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (Jun 15, 2012)

I saw a tee shirt once in New Orleans. It said: "the more you complain the longer God makes you live." Some people are seeking immortality.

6 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (Jun 15, 2012)

I saw a tee shirt once in New Orleans. It said: "the more you complain the longer God makes you live." Some people are seeking immortality.

Repeat response. sorry

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (Jun 14, 2012)

"...> it is considered a broken and defective piece of camera equipment...."

Spoken like a man (?) who is accustomed to speaking before thinking. Obviously someone who doesn't know what he (?) is talking about. I am one of the rare people who was lucky enough to buy one. I am not going to claim it is the best think since sliced bread, although I prefer to do my own slicing. But it is a really well made and competent camera that is chock full of features that other camera makers with a lot deeper pockets should have thought of. My main criticism of Olympus is that they included probably the worst owners manual ever published, but thanks to the several internet forums, all of the operational questions have been answered. Great little camera. I bought only the body and use all of my 4/3's Panasonic lenses including the f/1.7 with excellent results. I'll worry about the modest banding above ISO 8000 the next time I want to take available light pictures in a coal mine.

1 upvote
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 14, 2012)

I was brashly joking when I said that, lol. You guys can be too sensitive sometimes.

Anyways...

AndyGM: "There are native MF lenses such as the Voitanger lenses, works with them"

Actually... the newest MF Voigtlander m-4/3 mount lenses do not work either with Video-IBIS... case in point, the beautiful and expensive Voigtlander 25mm f0.95

1 upvote
Pandaemas
By Pandaemas (Jun 14, 2012)

Yes infact I just noticed it yesterday when I used iso 12800. Wasnt an issue with 8000 and below though. Despite that the banding is quite soft, but quite noticeable..

0 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 14, 2012)

Don't forget to ask Olympus directly for Video-IBIS with adapted, non-native lenses :)

https://support.olympus.co.jp/cf_secure/en/contact/index.cfm?consumer=ProDigitalSLR

1 upvote
iflash
By iflash (Jun 13, 2012)

The strap lugs feel like pebbles when the camera is in the hand. Had to remove them and attach a wrist strap via the tripod screw thread. They should have been recessed into the body.

0 upvotes
szlevi
By szlevi (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm a 6'2" ~220lbs guy and have zero problem with the strap, I honestly don't understand all this stupid whining about it.

0 upvotes
ulfie
By ulfie (Jun 13, 2012)

The banding is from the 20/1.7 pancake's syrup which gums up the pixel distribution. ;)

3 upvotes
threeOh
By threeOh (Jun 13, 2012)

@rondhamalam
"That's why Panasonic buys the whole Olympus company in an Acquisition."

Better read the news more carefully, and not in forums. Last week Panasonic stated it no longer had any interest. They were after the health care bit. But restructuring costs were too uncertain. Interpretation, the camera business would have been shut down and/or folded into Panasonic.

0 upvotes
szlevi
By szlevi (Jun 15, 2012)

...which practically would mean paying for Olympus' entire digital camera business only to shut it down - shareholders would revolt, that's for sure.

0 upvotes
rondhamalam
By rondhamalam (Jun 13, 2012)

That's why Panasonic buys the whole Olympus company in an Acquisition.

0 upvotes
makeitworst
By makeitworst (Jun 13, 2012)

The days of responsible engineering at Olympus that produced wonderful top of the industry film cameras in the OM series is long over. I still cherish my early 70's OM-1 and OM-1MD, and my other OM-1N and OM-2N.

But since entering the Digital market, Olympus has repeatedly stumbled, often big time, with cameras that were seriously flawed by Engineering. I had (have but it's dead) an Oly E-10 DSLR, which for the time was a wonderful camera even though it had a fixed lens, because that lens was tremendously versatile and accurate. BUT it had a flawed Battery Circuit board designed that failed every two years like clock-work (Oly paid to fix it once, I paid the second time), then the AF circuit kicked the bucket at age 5. That's BS, even a DSLR should last as long as a Film SLR. ONLY recent Oly I loved is the C-7000. Spot on colors, a range-finder, great video recording, fast lens and it still works .. so far.

Sorry Oly, no buyer here till you get your Engineering chit together.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
OniMirage
By OniMirage (Jun 13, 2012)

Who hasn't stumbled? Most recently I remember a certain top brand name have light leak issues on their most recent top end camera ... who was that again? The funny part was the solution of using ... tape.

2 upvotes
Revenant
By Revenant (Jun 13, 2012)

So, an unforeseen problem arises when using the camera with a lens developed and manufactured by another company, and suddenly Olympus is irresponsible and has flawed engineering? Get real!

6 upvotes
jeff_006
By jeff_006 (Jun 14, 2012)

Don't you see that cameras are more and more complicated with more and more technology ? Maybe this is a source of such flawed ? you can't compare an old OM to the last full of electronic camera... Another problem is the time to develop new products, we (market, customers, firms, etc) ask for faster and faster developments, we want the last technology as fast as possible, we get it...with flawed...

0 upvotes
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

Better TRY an EM-5. I think you'll find Oly has its Mojo again.

0 upvotes
Anepo
By Anepo (Jun 19, 2012)

If it has got a FIXED lens well then it's not a DSLR now is it!

0 upvotes
Cass_Rimportant
By Cass_Rimportant (Jul 17, 2012)

@ Anepo
No part of "Single Lens Reflex" implies the lens needs to be interchangeable. You can have fixed lens or interchangeable lens SLRs, TLRs, or rangefinders. It's the focusing and viewfinder mechanisms that define the "type" of camera, not whether you can change lenses or not. The E-10 was definitely a DSLR.

0 upvotes
ProfHankD
By ProfHankD (Jun 13, 2012)

What a strange problem to be lens specific!

The "banding" I've seen in postings is really pretty straightforward-looking single-pixel lines with consistently wrong color -- easy to recognize and fix. Actually, much easier to fix than the Fuji X10 "white orbs" problem that my free DeOrbIt tool fixed... but I didn't get all that positive a response to doing that work for the community, so I'm not rushing to put a post-processing fix up for this technically less challenging (and less publishable as research) defect.

Olympus should be able to fix this pretty easily as a post-processing step when the 20mm Panasonic lens is detected, but I'd guess they're trying to fix it at the cause, and that's probably some lens-induced electrical glitch disturbing sensor readout. Really impressive that Olympus cares at all about a problem that happens only with another company's lens.... :)

2 upvotes
WhiteBeard
By WhiteBeard (Jun 13, 2012)

Correct. Instead of finger-pointing, they should put their brains together and come up first with a cause, second with a cure. At least, that would be the professional and responsible way of tackling the issue...

0 upvotes
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

Yes, can you imagine CaNikSon caring ONE iota about a Tokina lens' performance on their bodies?

Their answer will be "get a CaNikSon lens, sonny".

1 upvote
thewhitehawk
By thewhitehawk (Jun 13, 2012)

Aaaah crap... *looks at the 20mm Panny behind him*

Let's hope a firmware update fixes it.

2 upvotes
Anepo
By Anepo (Jun 19, 2012)

give it to me, i am unemployed and poor I don't mind.... *waits for you to give it to him and then smiles when a firmware update fixes it.... hopefully* XD

0 upvotes
GregGory
By GregGory (Jun 13, 2012)

Sounds like an Oly normal prime is around the corner... :p

0 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (Jun 13, 2012)

To the person who made an issue out of the name of the camera being E-M5 rather than OM-D: I don't know about your camera but my OM-D says prominently on the front OM-D, and in small letters next to the mode dial E-M5. Since this the first in the OM series, OM-D is perfectly acceptable. You're just being picky.
When they come out with the next model, you may have a point. Until then.....

Another post says it isn't a problem until ISO 6400. That being the case, I'll sleep well tonight and worry about banding the next time I take my camera into a coal mine to shoot available light at f/1.7.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Anepo
By Anepo (Jun 19, 2012)

Bah the name matters more than the camera... or so it seem's a lot of people like to think >.>
I am curious... how many people that comment here know ANYTHING about photography?! I mean seriously they complain over the name being olympus and not canon or over it being called OM-D because "its nothing like the old om camera I had"

It's a sad day when people start behaving the brand name is more important than the gear and photographer.

0 upvotes
MikeNeufeld30
By MikeNeufeld30 (Jun 13, 2012)

It just takes Fuji a wile to get going, like a year later on x100 and x10.. Great cameras no doubt, Just like their updates like the Af, a little slow and sluggish..

1 upvote
ManuelVilardeMacedo
By ManuelVilardeMacedo (Jun 13, 2012)

Excuse me, but what does that have to do with the E-M5's banding issue?

3 upvotes
Anepo
By Anepo (Jun 19, 2012)

And what has this got to do with this thread? Are you an employee for Fuji?

The X10 has orb issues which are now being fixed, and both have got very slow AF.

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jun 13, 2012)

I applaud Olympus for doing the right thing, coming forward and admitting the issue. While I wish they would have done that with the E-3 back focus problem and the 14-35 SHG lens problem of focusing in lower light, I think it's good to see them take a step in the right direction in disclosing issues.

This is the right thing to do, and makes the brand gain credibility, imho.

8 upvotes
iflash
By iflash (Jun 13, 2012)

Yes, Olympus has a vastly different ethical perspective now than it did a year ago. It is reassuring. Might even begin to trust them.

6 upvotes
MikeNeufeld30
By MikeNeufeld30 (Jun 13, 2012)

Good Work Oly..Unlike Fuji..... They actually listen and want to create the best product they can and further continue its development to satisfy those that own the 20 1.7

5 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jun 13, 2012)

Eh? How did Fuji did something wrong now? Didn't they fix the sensor for the X10?

2 upvotes
Nishi Drew
By Nishi Drew (Jun 13, 2012)

Now now, you're complaining about Fuji without keeping up with how good they've been listening to and treating their customers, though this camera + lens combo hasn't been around as long as the X10 orbs, Fuji is just as keen to deliver good material

1 upvote
olyflyer
By olyflyer (Jun 13, 2012)

Olympus listens? That's a joke, right?

The banding has been an issue ever since the E-330 and Olympus did not listen.

Already in 2007 it was proven by me that the focus assist LED could have been easily enabled for *ALL* lenses, manual as well. Did they do it? No.

When the E-3 came out it had serious AF issues. Did they ever fix it or listened? No.

Now they blame the banding on the lens... we have seen that before, blaming on somebody else is a bad way of "listening". They also say that banding is only at very high ISO. That's nonsense. The banding is there already at ISO800 or ISO1600, regardless which lens you are using and in fact in some cases already at ISO200 even with not so severe PP. Look here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=41732742

Yes, sure, Olympus listens... well, good luck.

1 upvote
Wye Photography
By Wye Photography (Jun 13, 2012)

Buy a bloody Nikon then!

0 upvotes
DarkShift
By DarkShift (Jun 13, 2012)

Haha, I've experienced much more severe banding in shadows with Canon's 5D mkII, and what did they do to it in 4 years? Not much by any means.

And it does it with every lens ;)

7 upvotes
Dennis Linden
By Dennis Linden (Jun 13, 2012)

I did buy a Nikon. I can make it band too ... but it does not affect 99.9999% of the photos I take. Nor is this anything more than a minor issue which will either be corrected in firmware or photographers will learn the circumstances in which to not use this lens. People are really looking too hard to find faults that really don't matter to the 99.999999999% of people who use the cameras.

0 upvotes
xlynx9
By xlynx9 (Jun 15, 2012)

olyflyer, how did you interpret "we are working on this, please use low ISO for now" as "f you all, we will do nothing, it's not our fault. p.s. ISO 800 and 1600 are very high"?

your response is completely irrational.

0 upvotes
Ibida Bab
By Ibida Bab (Jun 13, 2012)

Just rolled some film through my Pentax ZX5n. Works like day one, fresh out of the box. When I bought it it was like $600 with the lens, Made in Japan quality, always ultra reliable.
Nowadays: excuses, bs, Chinese crap, overpriced plastic from almost all camera makers. Does anyone trying to put out an honest good camera these days, or it is all about selling the most garbage to the most people?

2 upvotes
Xellz
By Xellz (Jun 13, 2012)

Did you hit your head?

12 upvotes
SamKnopf
By SamKnopf (Jun 13, 2012)

Well, my ZX-5n's shutter died after about 20 rolls of film, half a year out of warranty. That's about 500 pictures. That was overpriced plastic crap, IMHO.

8 upvotes
DarkShift
By DarkShift (Jun 13, 2012)

The tech behind digital camera is much more complicated than with film cameras. The Lumix 20/1.7 has older AF motor which may be the cause for this.

Old cameras have often quirks too, unless they work fully without batteries. Even then there might be problem with shutter or winding mechanism etc.

And the EM-5 body is not plastic.

4 upvotes
Ibida Bab
By Ibida Bab (Jun 13, 2012)

Hey, this year I bought two Fujis, both suck in every ways. Chinese made bs cameras. Next to me there is a Russian Zenit-E that was made in 1980. My Dad owned it, my brother owned it, now I have it.
Never ever once failed, always the best pictures after 100s of rolls of film. These two Fujis won't last 2-3 years I already know it. The smaller P&S already developed an issue with the battery compartment and the shutter curtain.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Jun 13, 2012)

"Does anyone trying to put out an honest good camera these days, or it is all about selling the most garbage to the most people?"

I agree with that sentiment in general, but in the specific case of the OM-D E-M5, it IS the мукн rare and elusive "honest good" product. Which is not totally surprising as it is their current top-of-the-line, "no holds barred" of this year (although they still sell a few E-5s from 2 years ago with the outdated SLR tech).

0 upvotes
Dennis Linden
By Dennis Linden (Jun 13, 2012)

In fairness, I had a Zenit SLR made in the 70's. It was a piece of junk, with everything from the optics to the fittings of the body being unacceptable. The final insult came when I put the camera on a tripod and the screw caused a pressure point to be made internally that seized up the shutter. Anyone can have problems, it's how they respond that tells their character.

1 upvote
Xellz
By Xellz (Jun 13, 2012)

How you can compare film manual camera to quite complex digital cameras? Those mechanical cameras don't even have that many details, there is not much what can fail. Also, how much film would cost for ~50.000 - 100.000 pics? That's how much you can hope to take with almost any current digital camera. I still have one from oly with 1mpx or something like this. It works, nothing wrong with it and it was made from plastic. By any chance are you throwing your cameras against walls? I don't see other way, how they can fail so quickly.

p.s.
I got to use too those russian cameras and home dark room in bath. It's a pain to use, compared to anything currently available, not to mention quality of photos is much better in digital. At most just use old lenses on digital bodies.

1 upvote
viking79
By viking79 (Jun 13, 2012)

I buy and sell a lot of gear, and most of the Pentax ZX film bodies are garbage. Most the shutters/mirrors don't work on any more. However, the 5n was one of their better models, so it might fare a bit better.

2 upvotes
alanmushnick
By alanmushnick (Jun 13, 2012)

what is banding?

6 upvotes
Jarkko Lehtinen
By Jarkko Lehtinen (Jun 13, 2012)

Yes, please explain to us who are not speaking ENglish as a mother language...

0 upvotes
pannumon
By pannumon (Jun 13, 2012)

Banding is geometrical noise, typically horizontal or vertical lines. It looks very ugly, and although theoretically it should be easy to remove, practically not many software can do it.

0 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 13, 2012)

If you guys want Video-IBIS to work with non-native, adapted, MF lenses, don;t forget to email/message Olympus directly and request it....

Here's the link:
https://support.olympus.co.jp/cf_secure/en/contact/index.cfm?consumer=ProDigitalSLR

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Dennis Linden
By Dennis Linden (Jun 13, 2012)

I must be daft, but when I shoot video with my legacy lenses, I do so on a video head tripod and make sure to turn IBIS OFF. If I am walking about and can't afford a steady cam, the IBIS seems to perform about as well as I expect such a thing might ever... Can you explain what it is you intend to have happen with this post repeated so many times?

3 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 13, 2012)

Banding? 20mm? ONE lens??? Who cares!!!!

Let's try the hundreds, thousands, of old & new, vintage & modern, adapted non-native MF lenses that don't have IBIS in Video-Mode!

Hmmm.... ONE Pana 20mm???

...Or, the myriad of lenses by Leica, Canon, Nikon, Voigtlander, Zeiss, Contax, Olympus Legacy, SLR and RF lenses, M39, M49, LTM, old Russian primes like the Helios, Yaschica, Minolta, and the list goes on and on............

Comment edited 41 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 13, 2012)

If you guys want Video-IBIS to work with non-native, adapted, MF lenses, don;t forget to email/message Olympus directly and request it....

Here's the link:
https://support.olympus.co.jp/cf_secure/en/contact/index.cfm?consumer=ProDigitalSLR

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
SammyToronto
By SammyToronto (Jun 13, 2012)

That ONE lens happens to be one of the most popular m4/3 lenses, if not the most popular. So, many people "care" and it's good that Olympus are taking steps to address this problem.

9 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Jun 13, 2012)

Why should Olympus care about people who don't want to buy their lenses?

0 upvotes
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

Spot on - a troll's storm in a teacup ..

1 upvote
berni29
By berni29 (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi

On my E-M5 I have had the banding once with the 20mm at iso 6400. I have not seen it at iso 3200 and I do shoot a fair bit at that sensitivity.

These are complex electronic devices, not the simple mechanical ones of old. The occasional glitch is hardly surprising.

Berni

13 upvotes
Chaitanya S
By Chaitanya S (Jun 13, 2012)

well said.

1 upvote
JaFO
By JaFO (Jun 13, 2012)

yup.
And consider that they've got to make this work with non-standard lenses that aren't of their own design and/or quality control ...

I wonder if anyone even has an idea about the complexity testing systems like this.

0 upvotes
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

and WHO else makes their IBIS work with other lenses - AT ALL????

1 upvote
xlynx9
By xlynx9 (Jun 15, 2012)

'non-standard lenses'

the 20mm is a completely standard m43 lens. When you buy a m43 body, you are buying compatibility with all existing m43 lenses, unless otherwise specified.

'and WHO else makes their IBIS work with other lenses - AT ALL????'

What has this to do with..... anything?

0 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (Jun 13, 2012)

If the camera's IBIS shielding is really the problem I doubt they can fix it with a new firmware release. Better hold off with the purchase and buy a fixed body.

0 upvotes
OniMirage
By OniMirage (Jun 13, 2012)

Or just not buy the lens?

1 upvote
bborowski000
By bborowski000 (Jun 12, 2012)

why ?????????????? it's a panasonic lens..................olympus didn't design it so why should they fix anything

3 upvotes
Peiasdf
By Peiasdf (Jun 12, 2012)

The camera wasn't shielded properly. The lens works fine on all other m4/3 camera but the E-M5.

4 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm not sure how people get from A to B sometimes. Because you haven't seen this on a completely different camera, you know what's wrong with this one? You've actually tried every m4/3 camera? Pics or it didn't happen!

A more important factor than shielding is the higher sampling rate of the AF in this camera vs. whatever older, slower version you are comparing to. Higher AF sampling rates = potential for running the motors more often and at higher speeds. Shielding only does so much when things are in such close proximity. There is probably a software fix and we'll see it as soon as Oly has it ready.

As to the original comment--Oly and Panny have agreed to jointly support this lens standard, which includes mount AND electronic tech. They both work to make everything compatible. Even if you don't think they should be responsible, they are contractually. That's why they "should fix anything".

2 upvotes
olyflyer
By olyflyer (Jun 13, 2012)

...because it's not the lens but the camera. They are just blaming the lens.

1 upvote
nickthetasmaniac
By nickthetasmaniac (Jun 13, 2012)

@bborowskus000 Its a common format, thus it's better for ALL players (both panasonic and Olympus) if the format is strong...

@olyflyer Where did Olympus blame the lens? They said it was an issue with the body/lens combination...

2 upvotes
Henry Richardson
By Henry Richardson (Jun 12, 2012)

I hope they can get it fixed soon.

Did they say anything about the lockup problem with Panasonic lenses? I and many others have had this problem:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=41250084

2 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 12, 2012)

What about IBIS to work in Video-Mode with adapted and non-native lenses?????

IBIS works for Stills with adapted lenses.... why not video??????

Olympus needs to fix this issue first! There's many more people using and there are more adapted non-native lenses out there, than a single 20mm pancake.

And, native lens sales isn't the reason...since IBIS + Adapted lenses works with stills! And, this 20mm isn't even an Olympus lens! It's a Panasonic lens! So, I highly doubt Olympus' reason for not fixing IBIS-Video for adapted lenses isn't just to boost their native lens sales.

3 upvotes
cocute
By cocute (Jun 12, 2012)

100% right, is ridiculous E-M5 not support IBIS in Video with manual lens. Priority Firmware Fix this bug please.

2 upvotes
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 13, 2012)

Yes..this is the most ridiculous issue/problem with the OM-D.

I mean, c'mon! IBIS works with stills and not video??

Look at the cameras design for christ's sake! It pays homage to the old vintage slr's! And anybody that loves that look, will most likely have old MF lenses too!

Additionally, the biggest reason why many are tradng/selling their cameras to replace them with this one, is for the IBIS! If it doesn't fully function with ALL lenses, and MF lenses, then what's the point of selling their superior in iq and high-iso, bigger APSC sensored cameras like Nex, DSLRS, etc. for this one???

Might as well just keep the Fujis, Nex's, DSLR's, if the IBIS doesn't even work with all lenses on the OMD.

The apsc sensor is superior to the omd's m43. Without the IBIS fully working, the OMD is NOTHING.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
1 upvote
fooddudeone
By fooddudeone (Jun 13, 2012)

If you guys want Video-IBIS to work with non-native, adapted, MF lenses, don;t forget to email/message Olympus directly and request it....

Here's the link:
https://support.olympus.co.jp/cf_secure/en/contact/index.cfm?consumer=ProDigitalSLR

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

They just 'might' be able to afford a TRIPOD?

Hand-held video is almost universally C R A P

0 upvotes
javafool
By javafool (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm from the 60's and 70's so it's kinda like looking in the mirror. I hope they fix the banding issue but I normally don't shoot high ISO anyway. The Panasonic 20mm is a fantastic lens. It looks nice on my silver OM-D.

Comment edited 26 seconds after posting
1 upvote
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

Enjoy it mate, regardless of what uninformed trolls say.

0 upvotes
chiane
By chiane (Jun 12, 2012)

Am I the only one that doesn't want a camera that looks like it's from the '70's?

12 upvotes
645D
By 645D (Jun 12, 2012)

Neither do I. I like to old OM series look, and have owned one before. But this halfhearted 70s look is so fake...
BTW, what's the name? OM-D or EM-5? Pick one, not both, please?

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Caleido
By Caleido (Jun 12, 2012)

This lay-out and form factor is proven and appreciated during decades, why would Olympus keep far away from it?

Instead of seeing it as "just a 70s body", try to see it as a "small, ergonomical SLR". It's not really that hard, really.

8 upvotes
Antonio Rojilla
By Antonio Rojilla (Jun 12, 2012)

This site absolutely needs the option to DISLIKE some comments.

10 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (Jun 12, 2012)

I'd ask for a refund, or start a new site with that feature :).

2 upvotes
mark25
By mark25 (Jun 12, 2012)

the name is EM-5. OM-d is the series of which this is the first camera. just like Nikon D800FX, D800E,FX. canon EOS-5D, EOS-1dx, EOS-1DMkIV.

the name is EM-5. simple as that.

5 upvotes
645D
By 645D (Jun 12, 2012)

Actually, the name is not EM-5. It's E-M5. Seems more people got it wrong than right...

1 upvote
IgorK
By IgorK (Jun 13, 2012)

If you don't like it that much, why you continue to shout about it in several forums?
Just go and play with your favorite lego like k-01 toy if you have one (I doubt about it)

Comment edited 44 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
mark25
By mark25 (Jun 13, 2012)

EM-5 or E-M5, doesnt make a difference, as long as one keeps in mind that it is from a class of OM-D cameras from olympus. EM-5 or E-M5 won't affect the camera's ability to capture and deliver great results, especially in the hands of an able photographer.

speaking of able photographers; an able photographer would be least concerned with the name of the camera , he would rather be concerned about the Image quality and functionality of the camera itself.

O-MD, OMD, OM-D, E-M5, EM5, EM-5... all are irrelevant from a photographic point of view.

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (Jun 13, 2012)

Then just buy a Panasonic body and be done with it, you don't need to waste comment space with inane comments.

0 upvotes
viking79
By viking79 (Jun 13, 2012)

At least cameras looked good from that time period.

0 upvotes
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

It is a VERY nice camera to hold ... UNLIKE many of the HUGE cameras of today. Good on them for getting back to basics - where it counts.

0 upvotes
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (Jun 12, 2012)

Meh...just get the Leica 25mm. Well worth the price difference for faster focusing. The FL is less awkward as well.

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Jun 12, 2012)

Both lenses are great. But as the 20 1.7 is likely the most popular lens in m43 history, saying "just get the 25 1.4" is not much of a solution.

One reason I prefer the 20 1.7 is it focuses much closer than the 25 1.4. 0.66'/0.2 m vs 11.81" (0.3 m) for the 25 1.4. That and the much smaller size, the huge lenshood for the 25 1.4, and $200 more expensive, make the 20 1.7 a better choice for many.
The slightly wider view also makes it better suited to street photography.

5 upvotes
Horshack
By Horshack (Jun 12, 2012)

Agreed, I like the 20 1.7 for the same reasons you listed, MFD and pancake size.

0 upvotes
random78
By random78 (Jun 12, 2012)

I like the 20mm FL better than the 25mm on m43. For me 50mm equivalent is the more awkward FL

0 upvotes
Richt2000
By Richt2000 (Jun 12, 2012)

20/1.7 is dog slow AF. Another reason for the 25/1.4

3 upvotes
Joele
By Joele (Jun 12, 2012)

I have and prefer the 25/1.4, but they still need to fix the problem.. I assume in time they will too..

0 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (Jun 13, 2012)

They should rather release a new 17mm F1.7. :)

1 upvote
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (Jun 12, 2012)

What do they consider high ISO. I have used my Panny 20mm on my OM-D E-M5 and haven't seen a problem. At what ISO and up does the banding occur?

0 upvotes
Erik Magnuson
By Erik Magnuson (Jun 12, 2012)

If it's like the Canon issue cited below (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&message=1213477) then it's most likely to happen when using continuous focus or otherwise if the final focus motor movement is too close to sensor reset/exposure.

0 upvotes
Promit
By Promit (Jun 13, 2012)

Apparently the banding sets in at ISO 6400. You have to be fairly desperate to drive an f/1.7 lens at ISO 6400 I think, but there you go.

1 upvote
Nathebeach
By Nathebeach (Jun 12, 2012)

Or maybe, we are just dealing with an extreme design of a small sensor, a small lens, extreme ISO's. Can't have it all. Everything is a trade off in life. Of course I am probably completely wrong but it does make me wonder. Reading that some of the EOS lenses had a similar problem kind of blows my theory out of the water. Still it raises the question, in the pursuit of smallest fastest sharpest everything, at what point do we say "this is good enough?"

Case in point: I am looking at the 19mm Sigma MFT vs the 20mm Panasonic. While I would prefer the Panny (who wouldn't) I could see myself being very happy with the "bulky" 19mm Sigma which seems to be almost as good with the exception of a fast F stop. I just can't justify the extra dough. I guess if you have the dough for the new OM-D though then this does not apply to you.

1 upvote
nickthetasmaniac
By nickthetasmaniac (Jun 12, 2012)

Not sure where your point is coming from, considering that the Lumix 20mm has been around basically since the start of Micro Four Thirds, and this is the first body that has had this issue.

This has nothing to do with the format, but is a very specific body/lens issue.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Jun 12, 2012)

The Sigma 19 2.8 is a good lens, not as good as their 30 2.8, but a quality optic nonetheless. But it's not "almost as good" as the 20 1.7 as it's slower, and not as sharp. I do applaud Sigma for producing the 2 lenses for m43, but m43 need faster apertures, and the 20 1.7 offers that.

0 upvotes
Nathebeach
By Nathebeach (Jun 12, 2012)

I admit I did get a little side tracked. I was trying to postulate about possible causes, nothing more.

Regarding the Sigma, I think it would be pretty hard to discern a significant image quality difference vs the Pany 20. I have searched long and hard for comparisons and while few, the few images I did find were quite decent. To say the Pany is significantly better is going to require some proof. Based on the few images I would disagree. I think they are very close IQ wise, and obviously no so close size wise and F-Stop wise. I guess I will have to wait till more people have tested it and done direct comparisons. Unless someone is willing to subsidize the cost, I have to look at the Sigma.

0 upvotes
photohounds
By photohounds (Jun 14, 2012)

For what it can achieve, I think the EM-5 is very cheap. Yes I have one.

1 upvote
xlynx9
By xlynx9 (Jun 15, 2012)

We will never stop. For as long as there is night and there is photography, there will always be challenging exposures.

There are so many situations we just can't do photography in with current tech. And there's so much creative potential that could be unlocked in decades from now when we can shoot in ISO 819200 with our pocketable cameras.

0 upvotes
Martin_Kay
By Martin_Kay (Jun 12, 2012)

Hmmm, how does a lens cause 'banding'- surely its a sensor problem. I've never seen any problems with my 20mm on the GX1.

I see this question has been answered- almost, further down the list.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Erik Magnuson
By Erik Magnuson (Jun 12, 2012)

Possibly via electrical interference - something in the lens is "noisy" in a way that Olympus did not anticipate/filter. I vaguely recall reading of a similar issue with Canon cameras and continuous focus on the 50mm f/1.4.

2 upvotes
lyle berman
By lyle berman (Jun 12, 2012)

Hopefully this will help with the lock-up issue as well. My OM-D with the 20mm locks up when it goes to sleep frequently.

1 upvote
azazel1024
By azazel1024 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hmm that is nice that Olympus is acknowledging it. I am planning on getting a 20 in the next week or so and I am worried about potential banding as well using it on my OM-D. Opinions seem very split on it with some saying it causes it and some saying it doesn't.

In my 2 weeks of OM-D use I'd say other than test shots I have only used over ISO1600 a handful of times. At least in general lighting, even with a measly little 60w equivelent LED or CFL light in the room I can shot my Sigma 30mm wide open or my Pany 14 or Oly 45 at an even wider aperature and be fine with the shutter speeds and IBIS.

That said, I'd also be a little annoyed if it turned out that approaching, reaching or exceeding ISO1600 produce really bad visual quality because of shadow banding. It would be nice to have the wider aperature to gain even better handhold ability, not just equal what I have with slower lenses because I can't use higher ISOs.

Fingers crossed I don't run in to the issue.

0 upvotes
davidashapiro
By davidashapiro (Jun 12, 2012)

I am not unduly worried - I really like this lens, but as noted by another user, it excels in low light at f1.7 so using at high ISOs isn't typical use.

However, I would like to get one of the bodies and BH & Adorama still don't have them. Can anyone point me to a US source for these cameras, please? Thanks.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Jun 13, 2012)

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=41761555

0 upvotes
Total comments: 174
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