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Fujifilm provides modified-sensor X10 to address white-orb issue

By dpreview staff on Apr 26, 2012 at 01:29 GMT

We've just received an updated Fujifilm X10 featuring the revised, orb-resistant sensor, announced in March. We've rushed it straight into our studio to see how it performed, alongside the existing X10 we had been putting through our review process. We'll be doing more in-depth testing, to check whether the changes Fujifilm have made have had any other impact on image quality but, given the interest surrounding the issue, we thought we'd show our preliminary results. (Updated with image quality comparison)

Jump to:


'White Orb' test

Here we've used a directed light source to show the large white discs, or orbs, that the X10 (and X-S1) would show when bright light overwhelmed the sensor.

Orb test using existing X10:

1/1.3 seconds, F5, ISO 100

Orb test using revised X10 with modified sensor:

1/1.3 seconds, F5, ISO 100

Image quality comparison

Here, to check whether the sensor modification has had any other impact on image quality, we've shot the same still-life scene with both the original and modified X10. In both instances the cameras were shot at ISO 3200, F5 and 1/13th seconds. We're not seeing a significant difference between the two but will be re-checking all the test work we'd done on the original camera before publishing our review.

Existing X10 (100% crop) Modified X10 (100% crop)

Comments

Total comments: 337
123
techmine
By techmine (Apr 27, 2012)

hmmm same discussion again. I would be mad too (like a lot of us here) but it allows me to take a lot of good photos in conditions where other P&S would fail miserably.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7436837407/invite/0D9266DFDA864ADE9B3C2AE31607149C
"Late evening low light shots". More hits than misses.

2 upvotes
Shunda77
By Shunda77 (Apr 27, 2012)

The new Fuji is hopeless for orb photography *worst update ever* ;)

6 upvotes
Simon Joinson
By Simon Joinson (Apr 27, 2012)

i'm sure Instagram will offer an Orb fiter soon

12 upvotes
Shunda77
By Shunda77 (Apr 28, 2012)

Oh thank goodness for that, I thought I would be reduced to staring at the sun for a moment and blinking fast to recreate the little beauties.

What to do now....either off to the fuji forum to discuss this new news or to chew on some broken glass....I know which is more painful, AND IT AINT THE GLASS!

0 upvotes
bizi clop
By bizi clop (Apr 26, 2012)

I couldn't resist:
http://imgur.com/a/u2rkt
:)

Comment edited 18 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
xeriwthe
By xeriwthe (Apr 26, 2012)

hehe cool

0 upvotes
Dimitri Khoz
By Dimitri Khoz (Apr 26, 2012)

Another side-by-side comparison
from DP samples
of overall sharpness, details, noise, and focus for real-world scenarios.
(To avoid pixel peeping resolution was down-sampled by factor 1.65X)

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af289/DIKHNFS/X10sensortest5.jpg

There is very very slight difference in sharpness
where old sensor showed tiny bit more details on the label in the middle
and in the white lines in the upper right corner of the image.
Also old sensor showed a bit more shadow details
in the lower left corner of the image.

Again differences are very minor and probably not visible on the prints.

1 upvote
SHood
By SHood (Apr 26, 2012)

Based on these new images, the new sensor seems to have slightly less chroma noise and slightly more saturation. Certainly not a step back in IQ.

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Apr 26, 2012)

While I did not experience the white orbs, creating an entirely new sensor to address the problem is really going the distance. Assuming this new sensor gives results comparable to other digital sensors, X10 users should now be able to photograph blinding specular hightlights and get typical blown-out, detail-free "stars" instead of circles.

1 upvote
XmanX
By XmanX (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks, but no thanks. I have no interest in replacing the sensor in my faulty X10.

In a few years, my White Orb monster will become a special collector's item that I intend to sell for significant profit. To preserve it well, I have just ordered the Fuji leather carrying case.

12 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Apr 26, 2012)

ROFLMAO! You're hilarious!

2 upvotes
xeriwthe
By xeriwthe (Apr 26, 2012)

haha i will laugh even more when this turns out to be true

1 upvote
Alan Brown
By Alan Brown (Apr 27, 2012)

it wont be a collectors item there are 10s of thousands already on the shelves ready for the unsuspecting. it might be the other way round :)

1 upvote
loadofcobblers
By loadofcobblers (Apr 27, 2012)

I really hope you - and all the other X10rb purchasers will get a free replacement camera courtesy of Fujifilm. It's the least they can do.

0 upvotes
Dan4321
By Dan4321 (Apr 26, 2012)

You mean the white dots are gone? Damn, I'll sure miss those little guys. Oh well.

0 upvotes
camical
By camical (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi everybody,

I am a D70s owner and new here.
Please apologize if this question has already been asked before (I did not notice):
How do consumers now make the difference when they go shopping for an X10 to their local vendor?
Is there any distinctive sign between the "old" ones and the revised X10s in order to hit a revised one?
Thanks in advance.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 26, 2012)

Fuji USA told me that they aren't expecting the new sensor until end of May, or early June, so I'd wait for the new sensor to start appearing in shops.

0 upvotes
Percival Merriwether
By Percival Merriwether (Apr 27, 2012)

The cameras with the old sensor will have a BIG WHITE DOT on the box, and the cameras with the new sensor will have a BIG WHITE STAR on the box. In other words, "The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true!"

4 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Apr 27, 2012)

Percival,
Get it ?
Got it.
Good !

1 upvote
Chingachgook
By Chingachgook (Jun 13, 2012)

Desperately trying to shoot an orb with my new X10, but to no avail. No WHITE DOT or WHITE STAR on my box sadly. Camera performing immaculately so far.

0 upvotes
Faintandfuzzy
By Faintandfuzzy (Apr 26, 2012)

Very slight difference in sharpness....not that it would appear in any print. Color seems a tad more vibrant. An no orbs. Best little camera goin!

0 upvotes
Keith Aitken
By Keith Aitken (Apr 26, 2012)

For any USA-based users considering a replacement x-10 sensor, here is the info :

Call 1-800-800-3854 / Fuji service

When you get the first prompt, Hit 1.
When you get the next prompt, Hit 2.

They take your name and email address and will make contact when the new sensors arrive. The replacement offer extends to December 2013. The guys at that number are helpful, and aware of the huge furore re the orb issue.

Keith

6 upvotes
Franks38
By Franks38 (Apr 27, 2012)

Thank you Keith. This works...I got to prompt 1, but didn't get to prompt 2; a live person answered and I told her I was calling about the X10 sensor upgrade; she connected me with camera support or repair. The fellow there took my name and email address. He said Fujifilm would send emails about the end of May to those who provided an email about X10 sensor upgrade. In the USA this is handled in NJ; he wasn't sure at this time if cameras would need to be sent to NJ. Fellow was helpful and friendly.

1 upvote
Digitall
By Digitall (Apr 26, 2012)

It seems that the white orbs disappeared, is visible. good news!

I agree, the images are very slightly sharper. The colors warmer too, but on ISO I'm not saying it has more or less, I note the noise more organic at least in my eyes.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 26, 2012)

The new image looks better than the old, very slightly sharper. The colors warmer, for some reason, noise pattern about the same.

But please DPR, would you consider posting ISO 100 shots, RAW, if possible? No rush, but it would be great. Thanks for the update.

3 upvotes
Jon Schick
By Jon Schick (Apr 26, 2012)

If they've tamed the orbs without worsening image quality, that's great. A question for your upcoming review...please can you check how the camera processes reds (JPEG) under various artificial lighting conditions? Some of us are experiencing that it is very easy to clip red highlights which turn a nasty shade of pink, even though the corresponding raw file is fine. For me, it happens under certain energy saving (halogen) lightbulbs. Thanks for the hard work....

0 upvotes
Photo-Wiz
By Photo-Wiz (Apr 26, 2012)

Come to think of it, my old film Medium format 645 pocket camera was a wonderful picture taking tool...when it worked. It is the only camera I ever had to take for repairs...and it needed it three different times even though it wasn't used that much. Either the bellow had a hole, or the shutter speeds would be off, or the aperture wouldn't go quite the full distance...it was always something. Still have it in a closet. Looks beautiful, can take lovely pictures, but a complete headache.

Looks like the Fuji X cameras follow the same mold.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 26, 2012)

If you read online forums, you'd get the impression that every single camera from every manufacturer has problem after problem.
The fact is nearly all of today's cameras, as complex as they are, are consistently good performers. And the excellent Fuji X series cameras are no exception. In over 15 years, I've had no problems with any of my cameras, my X100 included.

3 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Apr 26, 2012)

I had a Nikkorex with a 43-86 lens that was soft as mush and the film advance jammed constantly. I figured, with that level of quality, Nikon would be out of business in no time. But now I'm thinking maybe it was that particular model because some of their other cameras turned out to be pretty reliable.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Steve NYC
By Steve NYC (Apr 26, 2012)

AbrasiveReducer- The Nikkorex was one of Nikon's earliest attempts at marketing a comparatively inexpensive camera. According to reports at the time, it was actually manufactured by Mamiya. Given that Mamiya/Sekor cameras (as they were known) were pretty unreliable, it's no surprise that the Nikkorex was likewise. Nikon saw the light and replaced it with the far superior Nikkormat. As for the 43-86, in general the less said the better about 1960s zoom lenses.

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Apr 27, 2012)

@Photo-Wiz

Bellows always wear out, the timing goes out on leaf shutters, folding cameras go out of alignment. Sure is nice to be able to fit a medium format camera in your coat pocket though.

Such cameras are a bit like old British motorcycles which need constant maintenance too. The good thing is any competent camera repair man should be able to fix these problems easily.

0 upvotes
bdcolen
By bdcolen (Apr 27, 2012)

True, zooms were pretty crappy in the 60s, but that 43-86 is in the Crappy Lens Hall of Fame. It wasn't mediocre; it wasn't 'pretty bad; it was a Coke bottle branded as a Nikon lens.

0 upvotes
SergeyMS
By SergeyMS (Apr 26, 2012)

I see that difference is not big (with orbs and without). I consider X-10 as a brilliant camera, and don't recommend anybody to renew firmware or sensor.

0 upvotes
Dabbler
By Dabbler (Apr 26, 2012)

Really? The old sensor image looks like it has several moons badly in need of recovery. The new sensor image looks much more natural with starburst pattern.

3 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Apr 26, 2012)

Sergey !! get your eyes tested. .

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
vahitism
By vahitism (Apr 26, 2012)

I have 3 things to say.
1. I have been visiting (not contributing) dpreview forums and reviews for years and always have been irritated by those who turn arguments to personal discussions. I can't ask for this to stop, but wouldn't hurt me to hope everyone get along since we all share the same passion.
2.I own(ed) from large format to p&s all types of cameras and never loved a camera brand so much to be supporting them all the way. All companies have flaws mistakes. Fuji Japan made a mistake by answering to orb problem as it isn't, IS a mistake, in my opinion.
3. I own a Fuji x10. I am not bothered by the white orbs, but definitely will do a sensor swap if Fuji may do it in the future. A dead pixel would bother me as much. I expected the x10 to show a flaw. No one should settle with a mis-advertised product. x10 may be cheaper or more expensive than competitors. What matters to me is not the price I paid, but is the advertisement. x10 does everything else perfectly in most conditions.

4 upvotes
nspur
By nspur (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks for a bit of sanity! I've had the X10 since October 2011 and it hasn't let me down. I like the fairly useless optical viewfinder too. I haven't seen an "orb" but then I don't shoot in the conditions that produce them and if I did I would use another of my cameras. I do not think I will ask for a sensor swap but another firmware update would be welcome.

1 upvote
meanwhile
By meanwhile (Apr 26, 2012)

"I have been visiting (not contributing) dpreview forums and reviews for years and always have been irritated by those who turn arguments to personal discussions."

Pfft, how typical of *you* to say that. :-P

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Apr 27, 2012)

yep and its customers like you, that make fuji believe tey can sell cameras with hardware flaws, and customers like you meantioned in your post, that showed fuji, that its unwise to release a defective camera.

think about that, its not allways good to shut up, especially when its about defective tools you paid hundreds of euros for

0 upvotes
vahitism
By vahitism (Apr 27, 2012)

Thank you.
I will quote myself "No one should settle with a mis-advertised product."
Fuji's mistakes:
-market a defective product (we bought it)
-deny the defect (we asked for a solution)
-provide a software that doesn't solve the issue (we question more)
-produce the fixed version and market. hope people will forget the denial and the defect.
this is simply a poor strategy. not their first mistake, not their last.

0 upvotes
jamesfrmphilly
By jamesfrmphilly (Apr 26, 2012)

seems like cameras are not tested properly before marketing them.
all of the recent errors should have been caught in testing.
even leica has had issues. i am afraid to buy.

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Apr 26, 2012)

There is no camera currently being produed that the readers of dpreview will not find fault with. Just won't happen. Of course sometimes the issues are serious and affect every photo taken with every individual camera. But not very often.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Apr 27, 2012)

no not cameras in general, its just fuji

0 upvotes
gati
By gati (Apr 26, 2012)

I have a X10, a Olympus xz1 and a Ricoh GRD4. I only shot jpg because I find it boring and timeconsuming to postprocess on computer. I have compared the photos from the three cameras and the X10 stand out as a clear winner. The JPGs from the Fuji X10 are magic, compared, especially to the Ricoh grd4, the diffrence is enorm to Fujis favor. The olypus xz1 is not bad but x10 is in a class of its own. (talking about jpgs straight out of the camera). The ricoh grd4 has a whole lot of ways to control the photos, sharpness, colors etc but in vain, the photos still looks preatty terrible compared to X10. I will keep the X10 because it gives the most pleasing colors on jpgs I have seen so far. The white orbs are ofcourse not a good thing but I have not seen it in any photo so far so for me its not a big deal.

/Gati

Comment edited 42 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
boothrp
By boothrp (Apr 26, 2012)

I have the XZ1, If only the Fuji had an EVF.

1 upvote
Velvia88
By Velvia88 (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi Gati & DPR, I would love to choose X10 as my preferred DSLR sidekick in this size & price range, with its largest in class sensor, 2nd fastest lens, famed jpg processing together with fast focus & low noise even in low light, plus unique EXR sensor tech & Fuji colour & have been eagerly waiting resolution of this orb issue. But issues still confusing me even besides orbs are: 1) why are dpreview crop comparison results so noticeably poor (esp in sharpness & noise at base ISO) for X10 even vs smaller sensor, slower lens compacts (esp look at paper clips and watch sections) contrary to all +ve comments and reviews on IQ 2) do RAW files actually benefit from EXR pixel pairing DR/NR HARDWARE technology, especially in PASM mode and when taking RAW only shots on the fly when defaulting to JPG mode 3) is there vignetting and flash blocking issue at 28mm, easily confused AF, slow start up, poor stabilisation esp in low light and 1/5 of LCD taken up with data that cant turn off, as reported?

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 26, 2012)

Shoot RAWs with the Ricoh GRD, and in fact with all of them. It's like night and day from JPEGs.

0 upvotes
cas3
By cas3 (Apr 26, 2012)

I also looked at the crop comparisons between the X10, XZ1, X1, EX1 etc. and was surprised how blurry the X10 crops were compared to the others in the comparison review. I was thinking about getting the X10 but am hesitating now. Was the comparison poorly done? Are there any other side by side shots elsewhere on the web to compare the X10 to its competition?

1 upvote
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Apr 27, 2012)

you own three compact cameras in the same class and prefer a fuji to a ricoh ... i stopped reading after that :)

0 upvotes
Dimitri Khoz
By Dimitri Khoz (Apr 26, 2012)

Many people noticed slight difference in the image quality between old and new X10 sensors:
“I don't see this as a win for Fuji. The new sensor's overall IQ is inferior to the original sensor.”
“From this comparison it looks like orb fix has been at expense of overall sharpness/resolution.”

Is it true?
Here is an answer:

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af289/DIKHNFS/FX10newsensortest1.jpg

It is a side-by-side comparison
of overall sharpness, details, noise, and focus for real-world scenarios.
(To avoid pixel peeping resolution was down-sampled by factor 1.73X.)

It is also possible that observed difference in the image quality was due to the slight exposure/focus change between the shots.

2 upvotes
ybizzle
By ybizzle (Apr 26, 2012)

I see no real difference...

0 upvotes
joe6pack
By joe6pack (Apr 26, 2012)

keep in mind this is macro photography and the difference could very well due to a different point of focus.

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Apr 26, 2012)

sorry - but the difference is huge: the old sensor is much sharper

I will not allow the sensor to replace

1 upvote
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Apr 26, 2012)

We've just published high-ISO images side-by-side, to see how they compare and there doesn't appear to be a significant difference.

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 26, 2012)

The steel ball is sharper on the new sensor, the string on the old. Probably DOF or subject movement.

Thanks DPR for the test shots.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
ybizzle
By ybizzle (Apr 26, 2012)

LOL @ rusticus - HUGE? Hardly...I stand by my statement. No real diff.

0 upvotes
bargainsushihead
By bargainsushihead (May 1, 2012)

No difference. As people are pointing out, the only thing difference is whats in focus. With the Stock sensor, the Front Strings are clear. With the replacement sensor, the rear strings are clear. And likewise, the clearness of the ball falls in accordingly. Nothing else. And this is getting down to the wire (literally) of being nit picky. Yes, I'll opt for the replacement. Thank you much for posting the comparison shots.

0 upvotes
whtchocla7e
By whtchocla7e (Apr 26, 2012)

Technology moves so fast that at this point the X10 is already ancient.
The camera in my watch takes better quality photos.

But thanks for keeping us updated. :)

5 upvotes
acidic
By acidic (Apr 26, 2012)

It's 2012, and you're still wearing a watch?
;-)

8 upvotes
RichardAB
By RichardAB (Apr 26, 2012)

It's concerning that in dpreview's "Buyer's Guide: Enthusiast raw-shooting compact cameras" of December 15, 2011 in the recommendations section it singled out the Fujifilm X10 for its 'image quality'.

I know the Nikon P7100 well, having used it for 7 months so left comments about mistakes in their review of that camera.

I feel particular sympathy for anyone who purchased an X10 on the basis of dpreview's image quality recommendation, having put their trust in dpreview, and wonder if dpreview feels any responsibility?

1 upvote
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (Apr 26, 2012)

I think you're being more than a little disingenuous here - from the article:

"As regards still image quality perhaps the only serious fly in the X10 ointment at present is an issue which has been discussed fairly widely among X10 owners, and relates to specular highlights. Simply put, the X10 renders clipped point highlights as disproportionally large, hard-edges 'orbs', which once you've started to notice them, are impossible to ignore."

I also mentioned that we'd be looking into the issue and were keeping in touch with Fujifilm about it. You're welcome.

16 upvotes
848848
By 848848 (Apr 26, 2012)

Why should DPReview have any responsibility at all to you or anyone else. Its their opinion only and your not paying for that are you and your not entering into any contractual obligation on either side. Get real its only photos your taking... and an X10 is for no money at all is it?

3 upvotes
RichardAB
By RichardAB (Apr 26, 2012)

I referred to your recommendation Barney, for image quality you said it was 'my pick'. I don't see how that is being disingenuous?

Reading what you have quoted must lead anyone to question why it was your pick - exactly my point.

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
RichardAB
By RichardAB (Apr 26, 2012)

Well 848848, have you looked at the Buyers' Guide article I was referring to? What do you suppose is the purpose of a Buyers' Guide?

0 upvotes
meanwhile
By meanwhile (Apr 27, 2012)

"Reading what you have quoted must lead anyone to question why it was your pick - exactly my point."

Err, because taking into account all the other image quality factors he thought it had better IQ? It's not rocket surgery.

0 upvotes
RichardAB
By RichardAB (Apr 27, 2012)

OK, orbs don't matter if everything else is good. You must be trying to work out why all the fuss.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Apr 27, 2012)

i feel sorry for everyone that buys a camera based on a review that wasnt done by him/herself

0 upvotes
pgordito
By pgordito (Apr 26, 2012)

Does anyone know how to say, by serial number or otherwise, the ones that come with the new sensor?

2 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Apr 26, 2012)

After all this fuss and madness surrounding the X10, has anyone think about how "Good" the X10 really is? Personally, at 2011 November standard, yes the X10 was a very good camera in many area and for some people as a sentimental reason to love it, but at 2012 May standard, there are many other small compact DC easily beat X10 in all area without even mentioning the "Sensor" issue. Canon G1X, Panasonic GX1, Canon S100, Nikon P310, Olympus XZ1, Pentax Q, Sony Nex-C3, Leica X1, etc.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting
1 upvote
John Carson
By John Carson (Apr 26, 2012)

This is a ridiculous comment. In the first place, you compare the X10 with cameras with much larger sensors, like the Canon G1X and the Panasonic GX1.

In the second place, you claim that situation has changed since November 2011, yet many of the cameras you cite were available well before then, such as the Olympus XZ1, the Pentax Q and the Sony NEX-C3.

2 upvotes
phaseout
By phaseout (Apr 26, 2012)

You have no clue what you are talking about.Your comparisons to M 4/3 and A-PSC sensor cameras is absurd. The only cameras in it's class are the S100, the P310 and the XZ1. Of these, the X10 beats in almost every category. LOL you even compared it to the $1,800 Leica X1

0 upvotes
locke_fc
By locke_fc (Apr 26, 2012)

And no, the Pentax Q definitely does not beat the X10, it's actually the opposite, at least that's what can be inferred from all reviews of both cameras I've read

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Apr 27, 2012)

the years old ricoh x200 beats all cams you mentioned

0 upvotes
Shomari
By Shomari (Apr 26, 2012)

I like my X10 the way it is... Maybe this will fix the Orbcryers on this site. Although I 'll thank them for pressing Fuji to fix the problem for those who had one.
Good luck.

H

2 upvotes
Photographically Speaking
By Photographically Speaking (Apr 26, 2012)

Maybe Fuji should fire all of their quality control people.

I never experienced the orb issue because I used the X10 in the daytime only but I'd be miffed if I still owned it because such defect devalue a model. I sold mine right at what I purchased it for, try that now!

Nice job, Fuji.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Apr 26, 2012)

They probably already laid off all their QA people before releasing the camera.

1 upvote
peevee1
By peevee1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Looks like they already laid off all their QA people - before releasing the camera.

1 upvote
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Apr 26, 2012)

At the approach of danger there are always two voices that speak with equal force in the heart of man: one very reasonably tells the man to consider the nature of the danger and the means of avoiding it; the other even more reasonable says that it is too painful and harassing to think of the danger, since it is not a man's power to provide for everything and escape from the general march of events; and that it is therefore better to turn aside from the painful subject till it has come, and to think of what is pleasant. In solitude a man generally yields to the first voice; in society to the second.

LEO TOLSTOY, War and Peace

2 upvotes
Osvaldo Medina
By Osvaldo Medina (Apr 26, 2012)

I own a X10 and I am happy with it! Very.

Orbs? a few times with some night shots. It´s a problem? No, not for me. When they are present they usually appear only with low iso (100-200).

3 upvotes
Geekapoo
By Geekapoo (Apr 26, 2012)

Yea...there is a plan.....reduce the potential for orbs by rasing the ISO! ROFLMAO! New sensor? cx10 owners should quickly get in line for the replacement before the x11 comes out!

0 upvotes
gulffish
By gulffish (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't see this as a win for Fuji. The new sensor's overall IQ is inferior to the original sensor. I'd keep the old!

0 upvotes
SamTruax
By SamTruax (Apr 26, 2012)

How would you know that? Have you tested a camera with the new sensor? I only see one image to make that judgement on.

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 26, 2012)

He doesn't know. There new sensor should be very close to the old one, which is to say, excellent, but without the blooming issue. Love the camera, now it will be nearly perfect.

3 upvotes
Shakens
By Shakens (May 1, 2012)

well i was going to buy one of these today but i think i'll wait now
until i know for sure the ones in the shops have this new sensor

0 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Apr 26, 2012)

That is a good start. Now is IQ affected. Waiting to see the verdict from DPR and hopefully the release of their review.

0 upvotes
Velvia88
By Velvia88 (Apr 26, 2012)

From this comparison it looks like orb fix has been at expense of overall sharpness/resolution. Dpreview, is this actually the case, particularly at base ISOs where existing crop comparison test here already gives surprisingly bad result for X10 in sharpness & noise vs even competitors like S100 let alone others in same group test including XZ-1, G12 and P7100? (See especially paper clips and watch sections). Given the predominantly very positive reviews & forum comments on X10 image quality, sample pics from numerous sources & X10 specs (particularly sensor size, lens speed, jpg processing combo relative to competition in class), how representative was that original X10 sample in the crop comparison in fact? When writing up the long awaited full review, I will be particularly interested to see IQ comments (incl. sharpness & noise details) with the new sensor relative to latest versions of the group test (especially XZ-1 which seems closest on image generating spec and samples). Thx.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
1 upvote
iAPX
By iAPX (Apr 26, 2012)

That's what I thought: the sensor should be changed. How the existing X10 owners will have access to this sensor "upgrade" ? Is there any clear policy?

0 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes. Contact your local fujifilm and get your name put on a list to get it replaced. Only if you ask will you get it replaced.

0 upvotes
Franks38
By Franks38 (Apr 26, 2012)

No Fujifilm replies on X10 sensor replacement--I contacted Fujifilm's official service agent in Chandler,AZ (closest to me in Oregon) as recommended by Fujifilm. The agent called to say they were not authorized to service the X10 and had no recommendation for help. I emailed Fujifilm-USA and received a note that they would reply in 24 hours. That was two weeks ago and I have gotten no reply. So no action on my part has gotten help from Fujifilm on how to apply for a sensor replacement on my X10 which does have a blooming problem even in normal light

0 upvotes
Paul Guba
By Paul Guba (Apr 26, 2012)

Actually having been at this a long time the orbs were part of the process in most early digital cameras like the Leaf DCB and others. I haven't seen it in years I guess because technology found a way to deal with it. Was kinda surprised to see them pop up again. Everything old is new again.

0 upvotes
bassandbligh
By bassandbligh (Apr 26, 2012)

This camera is amazing!! Haven't seen the 'orbing' issue on any of the X10's we've sold. Over 30!! Think it's something of nothing to be honest. Half of the people who dislike it, don't even own one!

1 upvote
WT21
By WT21 (Apr 26, 2012)

Did you even look at the pics above? Are you saying that DPR doctored the orbs in? Seems like a real issue, IMO.

5 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 26, 2012)

bassandbligh: "Haven't seen the 'orbing' issue on any of the X10's we've sold."

Did you test yourself? Seriously?

bassandbligh: "Over 30!!"

Surely you thoroughly warned each buyer of the issue, allowed them to check, and each dismissed it as "something of nothing." Surely.

2 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Apr 26, 2012)

Rubbish!

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Apr 26, 2012)

Aww, give the guy a break. He made up this new pseudonym just today just to post this defense of his toy.

Yeah. I own one. It's substandard.

5 upvotes
camerashopminion
By camerashopminion (Apr 26, 2012)

Seems a slightly inflated figure, we've only sold 18 so far, and that's as a pretty large shop with a resident X10 fanatic pushing it like crazy. Still, I won't dismiss it completely.

Oh, and Cy Chese - thankfully most customers are well informed and aware of the orbing issue, so we don't need to warn them - but that said, you'll be unlikely to find anyone in the sales industry who will come out and say to a customer "this product has the following flaws; would you like to reconsider?".

Me, I just avoid selling it altogether.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Apr 27, 2012)

wow thats something, so you open packaged cameras and test them before you sell them? as brandnew i guess? which camerastore do you work for ? ^^

0 upvotes
Indulis Bernsteins
By Indulis Bernsteins (Apr 29, 2012)

Yeah well if you sold them to suckers that are not dpreview followers then even if they had a problem and rang Fuji they would be told:
1) You are the only person that is having this problem
2) All camera sensors have some bloom, the camera is working as designed

How many people are going to back down and how many people will get angry and return the camera? Most people will live with the issue, though they won't be happy.

I get the same sort of BS from my car service centre ".bad radio reception- ah well all radios are not that good. You are the only one that has this problem." (after 6 months of complaining they replaced the antenna+base with amplifier and it was fixed!). Spin and BS seems to be what businesses run on today. Just keep getting new customers faster than you p*ss off the old ones and you can Ponzi scheme your share price up, and the board can take the golden parachute before the mob of villagers storm the castle.

0 upvotes
photofan1986
By photofan1986 (Apr 26, 2012)

I hope the fix won't affect the noise levels. Wait and see...

0 upvotes
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (Apr 26, 2012)

Nope it wont, they simply increased DR in highlights. It will be actually better camera after this..

1 upvote
abolit
By abolit (Apr 26, 2012)

Fuji is a champion of screw-ups. Don't trust those guys anymore.

7 upvotes
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (Apr 26, 2012)

Its price for owning bit "special" piece. At least in case of X-Pro 1 and old S5. Sensor is usually worth it. Not case of X10 tho, but apart from this orb issue, its pretty fine camera.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Apr 27, 2012)

absolutely!

i owned a x100 for a few month, and after that, i know, no matter how good their cams lookeand how nice the specs read, the gui is idiotic, the cams are not tested or built in cooperation with real photographers, and they sell products with major flaws and deny it as long as possible

Comment edited 49 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Valentinian
By Valentinian (Apr 26, 2012)

looking at the test.... am I the only one to see that the orbs are still there? smaller, yes, sorrounded by reflexes, but still there....

0 upvotes
Ken Phillips
By Ken Phillips (Apr 26, 2012)

Uh, no. The updated sensor produces quite ordinary specular highlights - which are, by definition, blown out. Same as with any properly working camera: take a picture of yourself, using flash, in a mirror. See what you get.

6 upvotes
viking79
By viking79 (Apr 26, 2012)

I get orbs with my Sony NEX if I take pictures of the sun...

0 upvotes
Mtsuoka
By Mtsuoka (Apr 26, 2012)

what do you expect? being able to see the flash's xeon tube?

1 upvote
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 26, 2012)

There is a difference. Fuji has done something. That's worth some points.

2 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Apr 26, 2012)

NO POINTS

Oh ye of little memory (remember to take your gingko):
Fuji reaction:
FIRST: no response.
SECOND: denial, and the poo-pooing of customer complaints and evidence to both them, and on the internet community--as here on DP.
THIRD: (simultaneously with the announced "improved" sensor)
the laughable absurdity that ALL CMOS sensors had the orb "effect".

Finally, after some time, with the ever mounting pressure of continuing negative publicity, and the undeniability of the reality of the problem, it became evident to them that
they HAD to do something.
It was then and only then, that they acted.
They intentionally marketed what they had to have known, or at the very least, should have known, was a defective sensor (now by their own tacit admission in replacing it free)

They have now merely done what any manufacturer has to do when selling an admittedly defective (TO WHATEVER DEGREE)
piece of equipment-fix it !

Summary: Good that they made it right, FINALLY.

But NO points.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 13 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
ProfHankD
By ProfHankD (Apr 26, 2012)

Actually, there is still a little more sensor bloom evident in the shot than is typical for a modern sensor... but no huge, sharpened, orbs.

0 upvotes
Indulis Bernsteins
By Indulis Bernsteins (Apr 29, 2012)

Fuji have been badly advised by their PR and Legal departments. They could have admitted there was a problem, told everyone that they were considering what to do, then inform everyone. The BS and spin has had a massively bad effect on their valuable corporate image (how many millions in advertising/PR has now been burned by the orb issue?), and they had to spend the $ anyway to fix the issue! Until company management has the kahoonas to stand up to stupid legal/PR advice (i.e. do their job, not just rubber stamp dumb advice) then they will keep running the company into the ground. And that's not just Fuji, it seems to be characteristic of many big companies.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Are they going to reissue X-S1 with the modified sensor too?

0 upvotes
clementperron
By clementperron (Apr 26, 2012)

great shot for ORB but it's look more details 1 stop... wow... this 2 sensors react différent when you look all the pict... but great for high iso...

1 upvote
matt k
By matt k (Apr 26, 2012)

Probably won't even bother getting my sensor replaced. Quite happy with the camera as is and only seen orbs about 4 times out of 3000 shots.

0 upvotes
C.Eaton
By C.Eaton (Apr 26, 2012)

Hmmm, that looks really bad; I'd be a trite annoyed if I'd bought a camera that rendered highlights that badly.

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Apr 26, 2012)

Orb Resistant Sensor

Hmmm... is that an original word from you, DPR?

Oh well, here goes...

Orb Resistant Sensor®™

.

1 upvote
Nikonworks
By Nikonworks (Apr 26, 2012)

Save your money, look elsewhere.

2 upvotes
voz
By voz (Apr 26, 2012)

Why?

0 upvotes
D1N0
By D1N0 (Apr 26, 2012)

I won't. Sue me!

2 upvotes
JJJPhoto
By JJJPhoto (Apr 26, 2012)

All I want is an official statement posted on the Fujifilm website with specific instructions for current X10 owners to get the sensor replaced with the new sensor by Fujifilm service. This issue is big enough that Fujifilm should have a dedicated support page to submit a sensor replacement order, get an order number, and allow people to print out a form to send in with their flawed X10 and get the sensor replacement done without calling and sitting on hold for a Fujifilm service rep who doesn't know what you are talking about.

4 upvotes
viking79
By viking79 (Apr 26, 2012)

It looks like this fixed version is for DPReview to test, I imagine they don't want to announce anything until they have a fix in place that works.

1 upvote
infraRaven
By infraRaven (Apr 26, 2012)

I think like ismailfaruqi and I'm afraid, something might got worse on the other side. These pictures look great but please compare it very intensive.

Most of all I'm interested in how the X-S1 works now with the new sensor - I guess it will get the new sensor, too?!

0 upvotes
uengels
By uengels (Apr 26, 2012)

I do own a X10 (bought in late December) and my "orb checks" are not as bad as shown here neither are they as good as shown with the new sensor type.

Are there any observations on the variance in "orbiness" of different X10s?

0 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Apr 26, 2012)

They all do it.

All of them.

It's just that they only do it under certain extreme conditions. Some shooters never shoot like that. Others ONLY ever shoot like that (shiny cars in sunlight, shopping centre and street lights).

1 upvote
madsector
By madsector (Apr 26, 2012)

There are differences:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3340468423/fujifilm-x10-orbs-investigated-does-the-firmware-fix-work/2

Scroll down to "Sample Variation".

0 upvotes
uengels
By uengels (Apr 26, 2012)

Thank you for the link.

Lucky me, it seems my sample is more like camera A in the comparison. However, I would prefer an orbless sensor too if given the opportunity.

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
ismailfaruqi
By ismailfaruqi (Apr 26, 2012)

Please also compare the DR or noise f the new sensor vs old one. Im afraid this reduces orbs in expense of something.

1 upvote
lacro
By lacro (Apr 26, 2012)

This is also my fear, and it's strange few mentioned it.

0 upvotes
D200_4me
By D200_4me (Apr 26, 2012)

Looks fine to me (the new one) :-)

0 upvotes
tinpusher
By tinpusher (Apr 26, 2012)

Without the power of DPR nothing would have been done ; so a big thankyou to all the team involved.

And also a belated thanks to Fuji for having made the effort (finally) who perhaps learnt a little about the demands and standards of the enthusiast market.

17 upvotes
Ol Iver S
By Ol Iver S (Apr 26, 2012)

i second that!

0 upvotes
adhemar
By adhemar (Apr 26, 2012)

What are you talking about. DPR has always downplayed the ORB issue, delaying the X10 review and making sure no real ORB picture was on their first page until today. It still is a very artificial one easily dismissed by people that "do not take pictures of xmas ornaments".

From all english speaking review sites, only DCRP showed the orbs in all their destructive splendor.

4 upvotes
Ol Iver S
By Ol Iver S (Apr 26, 2012)

@adhemar: i would suggest surfing through dpreview´s new history a little bit... afterwards - if i were you - i would apologize for the whole lotta crap you´re making up! that´s just unbelievable...

Comment edited 56 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Apr 26, 2012)

Remember, people, the new Real New X11 or X20 is just around the corner!

1 upvote
Stephen 06
By Stephen 06 (Apr 26, 2012)

To Hen3yr....

Well done to DPR...yes. But are you seriously thanking Fuji? They released a camera with a seriously flawed sensor, and u are thanking them 4 providing what they should have provided in the camera (a perfectly working sensor) to begin with?...amazing!

U do also realise that if you own the X10 that it's going to be a pain in the butt having to get the sensor fitted? There is the hassle to take it (or post it) to be repaired and also the hassle of being without a camera for a few weeks at least too. I wouldn't thank someone for that.

This must have been the biggest error I have ever seen on behalf of a camera company. They had no other choice than to fix the error. And don't believe for one second that they didn't do it for you and me. Sure they tried a useless firmware first when it was clear to the dogs on the street that it was a hardware problem. They did everything in their power to avoid this.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
14 upvotes
Vlad S
By Vlad S (Apr 26, 2012)

Ever heard of civility? May be the word "politeness" rings a bell?

9 upvotes
Dheorl
By Dheorl (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm sorry but "broken sensor"? Really? I mean yes, you could say it didn't live up to someones expectations but in no way is that sensor borken. it produces images. That's like saying a lens that flares or has CA is broken. or the fact that my images get noisey at 3200ISO means my sensor is broken.

People could have just researched the product, bought it knowing what they were getting (or not bought it if they thought it would annoy them). Instead people have bought it expecting it to be perfect, found out it isn't (lets be fair, no camera is) and fuji are listening to the fact these people are dissapointed and are effectively giving them a free upgrade. They could have just as easily said "tough, that's how the camera is. You should have researched it before you bought it, now live with it". But no, they've spent way more than they had to, to try and keep their customers happy. I say kudos to Fuji.

9 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 26, 2012)

The point is they are making good on a promise to resolve an issue with the sensor. A situation that occurs infrequently will be fixed and people here who enjoy Fuji products are happy.

You are free to be angry, to feel inconvenienced by posting a package, but others who really like the X10 are glad Fuji is taking care of business.

2 upvotes
epo001
By epo001 (Apr 26, 2012)

Really? How old are 'u' 12? This is whiny even '4' DPR.

0 upvotes
patchotoole
By patchotoole (Apr 26, 2012)

Well in fairness, if it wasn't for all the 'whining' by people on dpr forums and elsewhere Fuji likely wouldn't have bothered. They were pretty clear at the start of all of this that it was 'within spec', was typical of other cameras. They treated their customers with nothing short of contempt. The sensor was flawed, they tried to dodge it, they failed. Thankfully they've accepted responsibility now and maybe we'll get what promises to be a great camera.

4 upvotes
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