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Sony announces NEX-FS700 '4k-ready' E-mount camcorder

By dpreview staff on Apr 2, 2012 at 18:40 GMT

Sony has announced the NEX_FS700 pro-grade 4k-capable E-mount camcorder. The camera will initially offer 1080p video, switchable between 50Hz and 60Hz frame rates (including 60p, 50p, 60i and 24p). A later upgrade will enable 4k capture and Raw output from its built-in 3G-SDI connector. The camera is also able to capture slow-motion footage, shooting at up to 960 fps at reduced resolution (240fps in Full HD). It also offers built-in 2- and 4-stop ND filters (which can be combined), to allow lenses to be used at wide apertures in bright light.

The camera is based around a 11.6MP 'Super-35mm' sensor. The Super 35mm format is 13.3mm x 23.6mm - essentially the same as a 16:9 crop taken from an APS-C sensor. EOS HD is reporting a price of around $8k.

Jump to:


Press Release:

Sony expands NXCAM line up with new Full-HD super slow motion camcorder

PARK RIDGE, N.J., April 2nd, 2012 – Sony is pushing the creative boundaries once more with the new NEX-FS700 Full-HD Super Slow Motion camcorder, the latest in Sony’s line-up of NXCAM interchangeable E-mount camcorders. The new Super 35mm model is designed for high-speed shooting and is capable of capturing footage at up to 960 frames per second. The camcorder also features a range of capabilities such as 3G HD-SDI output and built-in ND filters. Additionally, it also offers several creative options, shooting styles and enhanced ergonomics – all based on customer feedback – to deliver a flexible production tool that fits seamlessly into a variety of shooting applications.

“The NEX-FS700 opens the door to a new world of creative shooting,” said Bill Drummond, Strategic Marketing Manager, Sony Europe. “You can record beautiful high speed Full-HD movies with the freedom of choosing interchangeable lenses. The NEX-FS700, with its super slow motion mode, is ideal for pop promos, commercials and documentaries as well as sports and a variety of events productions.”

The camcorder delivers Full-HD quality images at 120 and 240 frames per second in an 8 or 16 seconds burst mode respectively. The NEX-FS700’s high sensitivity and low noise shooting capability makes super slow motion shooting more convenient without additional equipment. 480 fps and 960 fps rates at reduced resolution are available for faster frame rate recording.

The NEX-FS700 camcorder uses a new 4K “Exmor” Super 35 CMOS sensor (total 11.6 million pixels). This high-speed readout chip is optimised for motion picture shooting, giving high sensitivity, low noise and minimal aliasing.

The NXCAM’s E-Mount flexibility is designed to accept virtually all SLR and DSLR 35mm lenses, with the use of simple, inexpensive adapters without optical degradation. FS series owners can make use of their existing lenses and add more lenses without being forced on a brand or mount.

Users can capture high-quality still images with the NEX-FS700. The camcorder also includes face detection and auto focus to help ensure the subject is always kept in focus.

NEX-FS700 operators can take advantage of the camcorder’s built-in ND filters, with a newly designed wheel that rotates across the sensor like a turret. The wheel includes positions for Clear, 1/4 (2 Stop), 1/16 (4 Stop), and 1/64 (6 Stop).

The camcorder is 60/50Hz switchable to give people the freedom of working in any geographic region without being restricted to only PAL or NTSC recording.

The NEX-FS700’s 3GHD-SDI and HDMI connectors can output Full-HD 50p and 60p, in addition to standard HD 60i, 24p, 25p or 30p frame rates with embedded time code and audio. 3G HD-SDI can output native 23.98, 25, 29.97 progressive signals; users can choose to output PsF over the 3G HD-SDI. Thanks to flexibility of the digital ports virtually any external recorder can be connected.

Users can save up to 99 camcorder profile settings on a memory card and can copy the same setting to multiple units. Compatible media includes MS and SD memory cards and Sony’s HXR-FMU128 flash memory unit that attaches to the camcorder.

The NEX-FS700 features include a robust detachable top handle, secured by a pair of screws (a cold shoe, plus two sets of 1/4 and 3/8 inch holes) that allow heavy accessories to be mounted. The handle is attached with a rosette mount.

A key element of the handle is an “active grip” that features four buttons for commonly used functions – expanded focus, auto iris, still capture and Recording Start/Stop – so users can easily operate the camcorder while holding it. Function buttons are also enlarged to make operating easy, even while wearing gloves.

The camcorder’s enhanced durable design also includes anchor points for compatibility with third party accessories.

Sony is planning a future firmware upgrade that will enable the NEX-FS700 to output 4K bit-stream data over 3G HD-SDI when used with an optional Sony 4K recorder.

The NEX-FS700 is planned to be available in June 2012.

Additional images

Comments

Total comments: 235
12
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 10, 2013)

4k update http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKGEECKc120

0 upvotes
drjigg
By drjigg (Dec 10, 2012)

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http://www.fastecimaging.com

0 upvotes
Rob Pirie
By Rob Pirie (May 16, 2012)

Just got off the phone to Sony Video Pro in Brisbane Australia , quoted 10.5k AUS with lens for the camera. My big question was when will I have in my hands an ACTUAL 4k camera , very uncertain answer 6 to 12 months maybe...... So Sony is asking you to pay maybe a year up front for a 4k camera but only supply you with a 2k.

Will Sony refund my costs for 4k camera hire in that time ? of course not so why don't they discount the 2k version of the of the FS700 and sell the firmware upgrade later when it's available , obviously there is issue's with the upgrade , so what is an acceptable time frame ? 6 months plus you have to be joking.

Worst part is I really want this camera but not as a 2k . Imagine walking into a computer store and buying a new computer and the salesmen tells you that the processing speed of the computer will be twice as fast in 6 months time through an update but you have to pay up front for the whole lot now.

Don't think so.

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
EJody
By EJody (May 20, 2012)

Rob: There is NO other camera on the market whatsoever that even comes CLOSE to doing what this camera can do, at any price. Not sure why you actually NEED 4K right now, but if must have 4K now, go buy a Canon C500 for almost 4x the price of the FS700: $30,000 US. Sorry, only 120 fps, and you can only get a PL or EF mount version.

The FS700 has a 4K imager, and its 13 stops of dynamic range and zero aliasing are stunning. You are getting benefits of that amazing 11.6 million pixel imager right now, and you will be able to output 4K, 10 bit 4:4:4 when Sony offers the firmware upgrade soon enough (for most everyone.)

If you prefer, Sony could have not offered this amazing camera AT ALL until it was fully 4K compliant, but personally, I will take this $8,000 amazing tool with 240 fps @2K and its 13 stops of dynamic range and it's terrific Cine Gamma settings making it look like the F3 or even F65 TODAY. I have zero clients requesting 4K right now. But then, I work in Hollywood...

;-)

4 upvotes
vmac1349
By vmac1349 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi everyone! I'm sort of new here but it let me share some my thoughts about below comments that I've read:
1) Too many buttons: Well a lot of videographers (not photographers!) do need to have designated buttons for some functions. It helps a lot on location when you need to change some settings quickly. It's a pain to go into the Menu every time you want to assign a button to a particular function or change a particular setting.
2) AVCHD not good enough: Maybe! But what is the application? If you have heavy color grading requirement or Green/Blue screen scenes then the HD SDI and HDMI outputs are there to help you. They'll provide HD 422 uncompressed signal for higher end applications. Besides, let's not forget MS or SDHC cards cannot handle high bitr-ates easily. So AVCHD does provide pretty much reasonable results.
3) Why 4K later? Well probably it's due to compatibility of external recorders that can record 4K out of this camcorder. Is it really so difficult to live w/o 4K now?

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

I am not sure which brand of camera is uglier, Sony NEX-FS100/700 or Canon EOS C300/500. But the Sony-cams definitely have much more (and smaller) buttons on them. More buttons and lower price: Sony is a shoe-in. $ per button, it's the one to get.

If only they could have something like Alpha-mount, F-mount, or any other usable lens mount for it, insetad of the E-mount, right?

0 upvotes
futile32
By futile32 (Apr 14, 2012)

At least with the E-mount, you can use pretty much any other mount lens too. Suppose that will be desirable to most.

2 upvotes
JML1
By JML1 (Apr 9, 2012)

The introduction of a 4K capable sony for around 7 grand is of course good news when combined with its other improvements over the FS100. Those who heavily pre-critisize are wasting their energy because we all know that sony, like nikon and all the others have the technology now to deliver an arri alexa in a package the size of an fs100 and probably smaller if they really wanted to but will only ever drip feed us technology to keep us on a leash. So right now what bothers me is the use of the phrase "future upgrade" being applied to firmware that will allow this 4K to work. It all seems a bit too vague. I haven't seen anything to suggest when this "future" might become the present. For all I know it could be christmas before that happens. In the mean time a lot can happen...like NAB. My problem is I want an 'Arri Alexa' inside a Nikon D4, with no small print terms and conditions!!

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 9, 2012)

"I want an 'Arri Alexa' inside a Nikon D4."

I am going to be ordering a bronze plaque with these words enscripted. Truly priceless.

0 upvotes
driton
By driton (Apr 9, 2012)

tung

0 upvotes
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Apr 7, 2012)

Despite the use of the term "camcorder", there's nothing about on-board recording. The only mention of built-in storage is in regard to profile settings:

"Users can save up to 99 camcorder profile settings on a memory card and can copy the same setting to multiple units. Compatible media includes MS and SD memory cards and Sony’s HXR-FMU128 flash memory unit that attaches to the camcorder."

And there's no mention of bitrate, which makes much of the format information useless.

2 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 7, 2012)

FS100 has been out for an year, and there are hundreds of reviews, videos, samples, and users online. FS700 (like FS100) has SD/memory stick card slot.

As for bit rate, It's AVCH 2.0 codec. Use google to find the bit rate for AVCHS 2.0 . It's public knowledge. I won't bother posting something when the answer is available everywhere online.

And lastly, the camera will do RAW output to external recorder, so the codec is irrelevant in if someone is shooting RAW to external recorder.

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

@ ET2: Video cameras do not do "RAW." They do "uncompressed." Let's not confuse digital photography terminology with digital videography terms, shall we?

The "new" Sony FS700 is the same thing as the old FS100 with a few minor tweaks probably worth an additional $1,000 or so. But if Sony really wants to sell this crippled thing for $8,000 or more, best of luck to them, especially after next week's NAB 2012 announcements from their competitors.

The bitrate and type of codec this FS700 is recording in never made it into the press announcement, because it is so embarrassing for any $8,000 camcorder: AVCHD at the absolute maximum 28Mb/sec recording bitrate. Other Sony digital cameras and many of their competitors can deliver the same type of codec and recording data rate with APS-C sized sensors (practically the same surface area than S35) and for prices around $1,000, give or take a few hundred shekels.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

CON'T.

Sony might have jumped model designations from the FS100 right to FS700 and skip the 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600 models, but as far as what this new FS700 can do for bitrate and video quality, it is not way up there, unfortunately. Just another one of many dozens of low bitrate AVCHD camcorders out there.

Finally, yes you can buy an extra cost external video recorder with its own media requirements and power requirement and cable the two together via HDMI or SDI. But is that really how we should be using an $8,000 dedicated video camcorder, I wonder? I know I would not.

Yet if/when a 4K capable external video recorder is going to be released for this FS700 from Sony, I believe it will be an extra cost item, not given away for those who had already purchased this camcorder. It will probably cost a few thousand dollars on top of the price of the camera.

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 7, 2012)

28Mb/sec is standard for AVCHD. And the higher bit rate by itself doesn't mean better image quality. 7D and T2i all have higher bitrate but the IQ is not even 1/5th of FS100, especially not in lowlight. And FS100's IQ blows 5D Mark II out of water for pure IQ.

There are hundreds of videos of FS100 vs 5D on viemo, for example . The higher bitrate Canons look like a joke next to FS100, and especially in lowlight, FS100 is 2 stop better. See

Low light comparison between the FS100, F3, AF101 and Canon 5DmkII

https://vimeo.com/23022451

As for as FS100 being not popular, haha ha. Dream on. It's currently the most popular camera in it's price range on dvxuser forum.

The video days for 5D II and now 5D III (only $500 cheaper than FS100) are over.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

Doesn't really make much difference what is or is not 'standard' for AVCHD. 24Mb/sec or 28Mb/sec recording bitrate is, for all intents and purposes, cr*p. Nor is it broadcast standard in much of the world. So.... the question arises here, why should one spend $8,000 here for a non-broadcast standard codec camcorder from Sony, when there are a number of other options out there for less money that are more or less television broadcast quality approved.

First thing comes to mind is the Canon 50Mb/sec XF-codec (MPEG-2, 4:2:2, 8-bit). Day and night above the AVCHD overall, right?
Re. the bitrate of the Canon EOS DSLRs camera you mentioned, what those are -- your guess is as good as anybody's, I suppose. Since Canon steadfastly refuses to release any information about their capture codec bitrates in these cameras. Only for their 1/3-inch sensor XF-series camcorders and their S35-sensor EOS C300, all of which use the 50Mb/sec XF-codec.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

Sony NEX-FS100 is a great camera, too bad it records to low bitrate AVCHD only. And especially too bad that apparently Sony will not want to risk sales of their pricier cameras and will hinder the much more pricey FS700 this way as well.

I personally would not use any DSLR, be it from Canon or anyone else, for video work. However, re. the codecs, for the price Canon probably has one of the better codecs out there at this level.

Canon XF-codec: 4:2:2, 8-bit (unfortunately). Still, it is readily approved for television broadcasts by BBC of the UK and others. Not necessarily so for AVCHD material, unfortunately, even if it is out of the FS100 or soon, out of the FS700.

Thing is, the Sony FS700 is $8,000, now I know the Canon EOS C300 is double that price, but then with the Canon, you will be 110% guaranteed to be shooting a broadcast-approved video. A big plus for those who need this capability today.

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 8, 2012)

If someone is shooting for BBC that requires higher bit rate, they can afford an external recorder.

Doesn't change the fact that FS100's AVCHD has superior image quality than Canon DSLRs with higher bitrates.

Panasonic AF100 is also AVCHD based, and I know for a fact that that camera has been used extensively to shoot professional videos (documentaries, news, music).

Just a quick google search, and HBO documentary "“One Nation Under Dog" was shot with FS100

http://blog.theimagehunter.com/?p=978

I am sure I can hundreds of other examples..

Im any case, there is no camera with large sensor that can do these frame rates (200/220) . It will be pretty popular camera like FS100 already is.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 8, 2012)

Looks like we've been around the block w. this one once or twice already, ET2. How many people do YOU know who buys an $8,000 video camcorder today -- only so the he/she can tether it with some flimsy cable to an external video recorder device, huh? Why -- is that how YOU are shooting video today? What cameras and recorders do you use in this tethered workflow, please?

This separate video camera PLUS connected external recorder business was pretty popular in the 1960s & 1970s, and then with the invention of the all-in-one video camcorder by Sony, quickly went away.

Also, your connected recorder will NOT record past 30fps, sorry.

If you are comparing the Sony FS100 codec to the Canon DSLR codec, neither of them is all that good, really. I guess the question is, which one is the less bad of the two, right?

There are large sensor video cameras available today that can shoot hundreds of thousands of frames per second. Maybe check into those if you need to overcrank in a serious way.

0 upvotes
Seamus Foley
By Seamus Foley (Apr 13, 2012)

@FrancisCarver "Video cameras do not do "RAW." They do "uncompressed."",

RAW is a recording of the unprocessed sensor data, which generally requires conversion to an editing codec in post. This is distinct from uncompressed video which is sensor data that has been converted without having been compressed.

Mate, theres a lot of misinformation out there about the what technical terms mean, and unless you're really sure what your saying you're just adding to the confusion.

The only meaningful measure of any camera or codec is how good the final image looks when broadcast and projected, regardless of the bitrate. If you're unsure whether the camera will meet a particular job's spec, ask the producer.

This is a very good camera if you're an independent operator on a limited budget.

2 upvotes
EJody
By EJody (May 20, 2012)

Wondering if Francis Carver works for Canon?

Have you even TOUCHED the FS700? It is STUNNING.

It does onboard recording with the FMU and SD cards.
It is 24 mbp/s but it ain't your grandma's 24 mbp/s. It looks INCREDIBLE and I defy you to differentiate it between 35 or 50 mbp/s. Same goes for the AVCHD codec. It is robust and looks great.

And if you want higher bitrate and a better codec (ProRes, for example) use a Nanoflash, KiPro, or the like. And with the 4K firmware you will get better than 800 mbp/s 4:4:4 in 10 bit.

13 stops dynamic range, multi-matrix allowing you to match it to an F3 or even F65... all for about $8,000. AND 240 fps @2K (480 @ 720). Gimme a break-- this thing ROCKS! I've used it and it is by far the biggest bang for the buck I have ever seen (I own several HD packages and owned a Sony F900 and F900R.) Demand is already through the roof.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Sep 2, 2012)

"It's AVCH 2.0 codec. Use google to find the bit rate for AVCHS 2.0 . It's public knowledge. "

BS. Implementers can increase or decrease bitrate for lossy codecs as they see fit. Don't pontificate on things you don't understand.

1 upvote
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Sep 2, 2012)

" Video cameras do not do "RAW." They do "uncompressed." Let's not confuse digital photography terminology with digital videography terms, shall we?"

Wrong. Red records raw. Raw is available as an output from the Alexa. "Raw" refers to unbaked data from the sensor, which is just as applicable to video as it is to stills.

2 upvotes
NorthwestF
By NorthwestF (Apr 6, 2012)

FS700 480 fps test

https://vimeo.com/groups/fs700/videos/39853068

0 upvotes
Ginsu
By Ginsu (Apr 4, 2012)

New NEX-FS700 User Group on Vimeo

http://vimeo.com/groups/sonynexfs700

I previously posted an incorrect link, thanks to members for the heads up.

I am not sure if the eventual 4K enabling firmware will only port out to an external capture device, or will record to the onboard media.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh yeah, it will definitely record to the Sony's internal SD card in Full-4K. Maybe later to Full-8K as well. :-))

1 upvote
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 5, 2012)

This one has more members:

https://vimeo.com/groups/fs700

0 upvotes
skrulm8
By skrulm8 (Apr 4, 2012)

4k capture is great if you output to 2k, but native 4k viewing is not really useful. How close to the screen do you have to be to resolve the difference? It can't be more than 3 feet for a 24" screen with perfect eyesight. That's almost too close to watch movies. I mean, would we see the difference between a native 12 MP and a resampled 2 MP film projection at the cinema?

I think it will stop at 4k for viewing and 8k for capture and editing. Color depth and framerate will be the frontier after that. As for framerate, it will peak at 60p for viewing because that's where the emotional impact peaks. That will change only when movies go interactive, i.e. turn into video games.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

I guess you know a lot.

0 upvotes
AlephNull
By AlephNull (Apr 7, 2012)

2k is fine for TV, but what if you are shooting for the movie screen? It subtends a larger visual angle...

Besides, 4k gives you more scope for editing. It's like the classic arguments about megapixels.

0 upvotes
Alec
By Alec (Apr 4, 2012)

Earlier today I found myself on the business end of a Big Black Camera, lol, being shot in a film scene. ... the camera being RED5 (in a 4K/800iso/24p mode - I'd spied a look! :). A couple of useful things about that setup:

1) The camera supports 3 monitors: the cameraman's, the focus puller's, and a large director's one. This wasn't some cheapie video output replication - each of these had different markers and things exposed, appropriate for their role.

2) The focus puller uses a wireless manual focus servo worn around his neck. Basically a detached focus ring, with focus marks to be executed in a given scene penciled in on the focus ring's white band. Everything was measured with a tape measure and I reckon this ring had adequate length of travel and fidelity of calibration.

3) Sound is completely separate. A separate crew member manages a shotgun mic on a boom with a recorder. That's what the clapper board is for.

0 upvotes
skrulm8
By skrulm8 (Apr 4, 2012)

"Earlier today I found myself on the business end of a Big Black..." - sounds like you had a lot of fun! :D

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Whatever. Never heard of a "RED5" camera, however. Who makes that one, Sony or Panasonic?

Comment edited 56 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Joesiv
By Joesiv (Apr 4, 2012)

There are several HDMI/HDSDI monitors available that have built in features including punchin for focus pullers, histograms/scopes/zebras for exposure, framing guides for directors/producers, and even audio levels for other people. You can daisy chain the same HDSDI feed from one monitor to the others, same video feed different "markings" Just a thought...

The wireless follow focus indeed is a pretty neat thing, and something that you can get from factory from RED, it's a great unit from what I've heard. There are third party companies that make them as well, they're not cheap, but neither is reds. And if Birger ever gets out their FF which was suppose to be out two years ago, there'd be an easy solution for FourThirds, and NEX.

Sound is often recorded separately, that's something DSLRs excel at ;)

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

"The camcorder delivers Full-HD quality images at 120 and 240 frames per second in an 8 or 16 seconds burst mode respectively."

ERRATA: It's probably the other way around, respectfully. 120 fps for 16 seconds OR 240 fps for 8 seconds. Either way, that would amount to recording 1920 frames in a burst sequence, which when being played back on a timeline of 24fps, would provide a whopping 80 seconds of viewing time per clip.

This baby looks great, but still -- $8,000 for an AVCHD camcorder using the Sony E-mount lenses? Could be a hard sell for Sony.

0 upvotes
tosvus
By tosvus (Apr 6, 2012)

Depends on what you mean by hard sell. Obviously it will not sell in the quantities that consumer camcorders or dslrs w/video capalities will. But 4K video + Super slow motion is great. The video can be captured uncompressed to an external recorder, so AVCHD is not a problem. Would probably be fantastic for green screen applications!

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

"The video can be captured uncompressed to an external recorder..."

Sure it can be. All you need to use with this $8,000 or whatever megabucks priced Sony FS700 is the Sony 4K external recorder. What is that? It doesn't yet exist? Oh, well...

Or else, you can buy an externally connected video recorder anywhere from $345 to well over $10,000, and record HD out of the FS700 that way. It's gonna be a pretty expensive and cumbersome way to record 1080p HD video that way, however.

Or else if you really, truly want to and need to record in 4K right now, just buy the little JVC camcorder for under $5,000. That one records Full-4K in-camera, using the same types of cards and codecs that the $8,000 Sony FS700 does.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839193-REG/JVC_GY_HMQ10U_GY_HMQ10_4K_Compact_Handheld.html

"AVCHD is not a problem."

Of course it is. Which is why no real professional video camcorder or digital film camera uses it. Especially not at 24 or 28Mb/sec data rate.

0 upvotes
Ginsu
By Ginsu (Apr 3, 2012)

There is a new Sony NEX-FS700 User Group over at Vimeo:

http://vimeo.com/groups/fs100

Very well written review article by the way!

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 4, 2012)

The link you posted is actually to FS100, not FS700

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah, camera comes out in June 2012 -- and there is already a "user group" for it on Vimeo? Since when are these members been using their FS700 camcorders -- since the Italian Renaissance?

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 4, 2012)

Actually, there is user group. He just posted the wrong link. The correct link is

http://vimeo.com/groups/fs700

also on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/fs700

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Surte thing, ET2. Precious little is even know about this camera that, by the way, will not even come out and be available for purchase by anyone until the summer.

Yet, we have "users groups" dedicated to it already? Well, if they are on Vimeo and facebook, than they must be some serious dude and dudettes, eh?

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 5, 2012)

What's your problem if there are user groups of people who might be interested in the camera? Get a life, man.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

@ ET2: How can you be a "user" of something that will not even exist for a few more months? Get a life, man.

0 upvotes
monkeyking
By monkeyking (Apr 3, 2012)

Does FS700 have 2 SDHC card slots unlike the FS100 which only has one?

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 3, 2012)

10 seconds of footage at 200fps would be 75 seconds of slow motion,

From http://blog.domisljije.si/2012/04/02/stress-testing-the-fs700/

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Sorry, but this camera will not shoot at 200 fps. It goes 30-60-120-240-480-960 fps instead, at least according to its manufacturer's recent press release (reproduced above).

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 4, 2012)

No, the camera will do full 200/240fps at 1080P (region specific so if you shoot 60hz you'll get 240fps and 50hz 200 fps). 50hz/60hz is switchable.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

@ ET2: I guess you may be confusing alternating electrical current frequencies with television broadcast standard refresh rates with slow-motion/overcranking acqusition frame rates and speeds, no?

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 5, 2012)

No, I am not confused. You are. What I posted was correct.

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The camera can do either 200fps or 240fps depending on whether you are shooting PAL or NTSC.

2 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

So the overcranking capability is dependent whether you are in a 50 Hertz AC or 60 Hertz AC country? Regarding "PAL" and "NTSC," those have been largely replaced by Rec. 709 ATSC. Quick, somebody tell this news to Sony.

0 upvotes
cowboyraygun
By cowboyraygun (Apr 3, 2012)

"A later upgrade will enable 4k capture and Raw output from its built-in 3G-SDI connector."

Says right there it will be Raw output, not just 4k.

Why shoot 4k? If you're making an indie movie and hope to be shown in the big screen 4k can downrezz to 2k to make a very pretty image on the big screen.

Plus, you can color grade and ad FX to 4k without breaking up the footage. Also, with 4k you can zoom in post. This is very handy for steadying footage. You can shoot handheld or on a less than perfect dolly, and make it silky smooth in post production without losing significant resolution. That's a great technique for when you want a dolly shot but dont' have time to set up a bunch of perfect dolly track.

Only thing that remains is to see the 4k footage. It will either look as good as Red scarlet footage, or it won't. If it does, I'd rather get the FS700. IMO it will be easier to use than Red, and media will probably be less expensive. Plus XLR inputs and ND filters!

1 upvote
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

Aren't the better large screen theaters 4k or IMAX 8k? To shoot 4k for the sake of advanced effects won't recoup costs, unless you expect distribution on par with a Harry Potter or Hunger Games sequel. If you downres to 2k, you essentially quadrupple the costs and work for the sake of something the "indie" watcher cares less about. However, the ability to crop 2k video from 4k source would be sweet, giving videographers a tool taken for granted in still photography. Bird in flight or similar eratic action shots need not be so jerky. One can shoot wide and then crop.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Usually folks who hadn't even shot in 2K always talk of 4K and how much they just must have it. "Cropping" is also a favorite term used by the non film school, non-ASC/CSC/BSC member types.

0 upvotes
powerbook duo
By powerbook duo (Apr 3, 2012)

I know the e-mount flange focal distance makes it pretty much compatible with anything, and you pretty much can find an adaptor for just about all lens evermade, but Would it hurt to have some Sony-branded PL mount adaptor in the box?

For a Camera this serious, e-mount lens selection is a joke,

It's not like Sony don't know how to make one, their higher end CineAltar does come with PL mount, even Canon knows enough to make one for their camera too,

2 upvotes
Franka T.L.
By Franka T.L. (Apr 3, 2012)

I am with you, the E mount need top notch lens that are fully compatible.

1 upvote
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Apr 7, 2012)

At this price, a Canon mount would make more sense. But Sony's not about to do that.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

Shooting with PL-mount (Arri Positive Locking Mount) cinema lenses is great. As long one accepts the fact that single focal PL-mount lenses go for $6,000 to around $28,000, and PL-mount zooms go anywhere from around $22,000 to way, way up there.

Many folks out there I know could afford the camera body.... just not the extra 10s or 100s of thous for the PL-mount cine lenses.

0 upvotes
powerbook duo
By powerbook duo (Apr 10, 2012)

Most people that work in the industry can probably rent or borrow some lens from their day job/work for their pet project or whatever, I know a few cinematographer do keep their personal lens, so having a PL-mount lens when you can is a good investment in your career

0 upvotes
Debankur Mukherjee
By Debankur Mukherjee (Apr 3, 2012)

Do we really need 4K and 8K resolution for our Home Theaters. I think 1080 is more then enough for a consumer grade handycam..........8-)

1 upvote
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

1080p is absolutely not enough. For the comfort of our eyes, we need 4K and 8K with 4:4:4.

1 upvote
Mescalamba
By Mescalamba (Apr 3, 2012)

Maybe not, but you can downsize and that 260 FPS is pretty interesting. About E-mount, well, thats actually advantage as you can mount anything you want via adapter. Leica M lens are pretty interesting when used for movie shooting and you cant use them with anything else..

0 upvotes
Franka T.L.
By Franka T.L. (Apr 3, 2012)

Sure we might not need 4K or 8K for our home theater, but then the FS700 is not mean to be consumer product either.

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

Do we need 10 megapixel cameras to view on 1920x1080 monitors or TVs? No. But one can crop larger files to obtain better composition when viewing. The same could be true with 4k video. It's not possible at all with 1920x1080 video, without quality loss. 4k video might be unnecessary in many cases, but a very useful tool in certain instances.

1 upvote
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

No Goldman Sachs Executive will need a 4k theater, until he learns that his Morgan Stanley neighbor has one. Then he'll insist on getting an 8k screen! By 2015, the rivalry will trickle down to the masses, all for the sake of ...

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

4K may or may not happen. 8K may or may not happen. We have pretty awful 1080p video now, why uprez without fixing basic quality issues first?

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 4, 2012)

Simple, there is still a lot of problems in Window XP; why do we use Window 7 before fixing all the problems in XP? Same logic.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

@ Edmond, Windows XP is a truly old (almost 11 years old, in fact) Microsoft operating system that is or should have been long ago discontinued. I am sure that Microsoft did all the fixing it could be expected to do for that one.

HD or 4K, this $8,000 camcorder from Sony is an HD camcorder right now that uses the same SD cards and the same 24 or 28Mb/sec maximum data rate AVCHD codec that many digital cameras priced at around $1,000 also use.
At some future point in time you may be able to attach an external 4K recorder to it? So what? How much would something like that hazy prospect worth today?

0 upvotes
Ceesprof
By Ceesprof (Apr 3, 2012)

Gradually the high cost camera/film productions are replaced by the low and medium cost all digital productions and distributions. The new technology opens possibilities for high quality corporate and medium and low budget movies. That is what is happening!

1 upvote
commiebiker
By commiebiker (Apr 3, 2012)

And don't forget the multi billion dollar porn industry

6 upvotes
Nereo
By Nereo (Apr 4, 2012)

"And don't forget the multi billion dollar porn industry"

Yikes. Some things you definitely do NOT want to see in a higher resolution!

1 upvote
Sdaniella
By Sdaniella (Apr 3, 2012)

i think there are websites for such small APS sized 'super 35mm' dedicated videocams, right?

if they do start doing tests, they would have to create an entirely new 'meant for video' set of testing parameters.

which would be interesting of course to those into APS sensor videocams.

i'd be more interested in larger FF sensor 'Cinematography' video standard tests instead, that are based on those initiated for dSLRs in the first place found here on DPR, which has seen only limited coverage (too much like video coverage of dcams in general).

i leave the Canon EOS C300 to those who deal with dedicated video, whether it is super35mm or smaller sensors. i wonder if Canon will offer a FF 4k EOS dSLR, or a smaller 'super35mm' APS sensor.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

What do you mean "FF sensor 'Cinematography'"?
Are you talking the sensor size of Sony F65 or Arri Alexa?

2 upvotes
BJL
By BJL (Apr 3, 2012)

Cinema 35mm format has always had a frame width of about 24mm (film goes vertically through cine-cameras), or at most stretched a bit to 25mm wide by "Super35mm", and that is about what Sony is offering in this, and in all its high end Cine-Alta 35mm format camera like the F35 and F65. Super35mm will remain dominant in part for compatibility with the huge installed base of cine-camera lenses.

The occasional use of 36x24mm format DSLRs for TV and movie production is a special purpose or low budget thing, not the main direction of the cinema or TV industry ... do not be fooled by all the talk about one episode of the TV series "House" a few years ago.

2 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

Just forget the "FF sensor". That's not for movie production.
When we talk about movie, we talk Panavision and Arri systems; but not the others.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

FF sensor videography (Canon 5D, etc) is mostly for folks who cannot afford professional Super 35 (app. APS-C) sensor digital film cameras costing anywhere from a few thousand dollars to well over $150,000.

0 upvotes
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Apr 7, 2012)

You don't want to shoot motion pictures on a "full-frame" 35mm sensor. The depth of field is way too shallow and makes focusing fussy as hell. If you want a bunch of your movie to be out of focus, go for it. Otherwise, shoot with an APS-sized chip, which basically matches the size of 35mm motion-picture film.

2 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

Hope sony and other TV manufacturers will soon release the affordable price 4K TV / monitor.

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

If you can afford the NEX-FS700, plus all the gear that must accompany it, the cost of that 100' 4k LED or projector will be a triffle, hardly more than what you paid for your D4 or FF Leica.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

But it is still so cheap when compared with the same brand SONY F65!

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

DPR, please conduct a full review of this camcorder ASAP.
We have been waiting for a long time for this kind of 4K camcorder at such affordable price level.
A really exciting news.

5 upvotes
AshMills
By AshMills (Apr 3, 2012)

Is $8 really that affordable for the average camcorder buyer?

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

DPR probably hasn't the budget for a 4k monitor or the assorted equipment needed to edit 4k video. It would take people hours to download the sample clips in native form. Few, other than the Soros family, would have the computer or monitor specs necessary to view the video at full resolution and bitrate.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

$8K is not that expensive. When you come to HK, you would see hundred of "Mainland Chinese" line up outside Louis Vuitton, Chanel, D&G... all the time. They spend $10K or more for just a bag! Their monies are coming so easy... so, $8K is just a small amount for them. A huge market there.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

"Is $8 really that affordable for the average camcorder buyer?"

Well, probably not, particularly if you don't even have eight dollars in your pocket.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 4, 2012)

Then don't buy a $8K one, buy a DV type for less than $99. You have the freedom to choose.

1 upvote
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Apr 7, 2012)

This isn't a 4K camcorder. It's not even an HD camcorder for $8K, because it doesn't come with a lens.

That outboard 4K recorder will be thousands, and the media for it is sure to be some kind of overpriced proprietary Sony nonsense as well.

Also, nowhere does it say that the 4K firmware upgrade will be FREE. Sony has a long history of selling equipment that lacks fundamental functionality until you buy a hugely expensive add-in board for it.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

External HD recorders today cost anywhere from $345 to well over $10,000. When the "affordable" 4K external recorders start coming out, they may be in the 10s of thousands of dollars.

And then there are the media costs. The under $5K new little JVC 4K camcorder solves this issue on the cheap by recording to 4x SD card in-camera, dividing the 4K frame into 4x Full-HD quadrants. The much pricier Sony NEX-FS700 does not even offer us that.

I also would like to see the line-up of Sony E-mount lenses with the resolving power matching and surpassing Full-4K video. It'll be a rather short line-up indeed, I rather suspect.

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Apr 3, 2012)

It's gadgets like these that spell the rise of the indies and the fall of Hollywood.

To people who are in the know, these are exciting times...

More so if the affordability barrier keeps getting smashed.

Keep on truckin', Sony.

.

7 upvotes
John Brawley
By John Brawley (Apr 3, 2012)

Really ? Since when was the cost of the camera the true barrier to small and independent films being succesful ? We've had 16mm for years. We've had MiniDv for years. We've had HD for years. We've had 5Dmk2's for YEARS. The cameras are not the barrier. Not only that, but in typical Sony fashion, they don't specify what the 4K recording is...is it compressed ? Is it RAW ? When will it be released ? The S-log upgrade to the F3 was nearly a year after they shipped the camera, AND a paid upgrade.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
julieng
By julieng (Apr 3, 2012)

Regarding what John Brawley said : one has to see all the time, crew, decor, machinery, planing and everything involved in but 1 minute of Hollywood footage.
Saying that cameras are not the barrier is not an exaggeration, in fact, when looking at the big picture, it is an extremely marginal cost, even when equipped with the very most luxurious cine lenses!

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

The costs of cameras, computers, and editing software keep falling. But there is a continuous rise in the effects, technique, and content that audiences expect. The cost, effort, and talent necessary to attain those elements goes up and up. Meanwhile, people expect to pay nothing for content. Thus, it actually gets harder and harder to "make it" commercially. To get lots of hits with a YT video, audio (the music) probably trumps the video content in terms of power of attraction, unless your video happens to feature something funny, a celebrity, or scandal.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

@ CameraLabTester: I guess just last month we declared that film is dead, and this month we have already moved on to burying Hollywood, huh?

All because of an AVCHD prosumer camcorder that probably records video at 28Mb/sec data rate and costs $8,000 without any lens?

Oh well.... whatever.

0 upvotes
Itai42
By Itai42 (Apr 3, 2012)

I think if you get a good camera you deserve to get a good set of buttons. It may make the learning curve shallower but once you get things together you can work very easily.
Don't know why everyone complain and why people would want a touch screen instead... touch-screens are not tactile and therefore are always slow to work with compared to good old buttons. I LOVE the way these panels look.
Was wondering about "4k ready" though... this reads to me like the firmware will only enable 4k recording to external media through the sony recorder -while camera is tethered... not sounding right to me.

1 upvote
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 3, 2012)

Obviously 4K (which would be basically RAW) would be to external recorder. SD card can never handle data like that. Plus the external recorder isn't going to be cheap, either.

1 upvote
AshMills
By AshMills (Apr 3, 2012)

Absolutely no reason whatsoever that 4K can be described as "basically RAW" just because the chip resolves that res, RAW - as in pre-debayering, preWB, etc is a whole different cookie.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

1. There is no real "RAW" or "Raw" in video. There is uncompressed HD, however. Close enough.

2. "SD card can never handle data like that."

ET2, of course SD cards can handle 4K. I guess you hadn't checked out the specs of the JVC 4K camcorder, hmmm? You know... the one that actually records in Full-4K right now to internal SD cards.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839193-REG/JVC_GY_HMQ10U_GY_HMQ10_4K_Compact_Handheld.html

Instead of to some who-knows-what type and who-knows-what-media and who-knows-what price Sony external recorder coming out who-knows-when.

0 upvotes
rttew
By rttew (Apr 3, 2012)

is it me, or is sony the world's worst about releasing anticipated products that are still more or less incomplete? you taught it's 4k capability above all else and then at the end of the story, you tell the world they have to both wait and pay extra for some external module and firmware that will allow the camera to do everything we think we are getting when we pay for it...

4 upvotes
SLove
By SLove (Apr 3, 2012)

It's intended primarily for TV productions, which usually do not require more than 1080p. The 4k mode is just extra for people who want to use it for low budget theatrical release movies, in other words indie movie makers and the like. Video cameras for broadcast TV are Sony's traditional strength and this model continues the tradition.

3 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Apr 3, 2012)

Most users don't need 4K, but to know it will be an option in the future IS really good to have once the need arises without having to buy a new camera.

For most of those users having the camera sooner is probably more important than having 4K on the day of release. If I remember correctly Canon were touting the C300 as being a 4K camera... Albeit one that will never produce a 4K image.

1 upvote
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

4K is absolutely for the next 2 to 3 years; and 8K is definitely for the next 5 years to 10 years.
Now, we have 4K camera at such low price, what do we need now is the affordable 4K TV / Monitor.
1080p?, no more please.

1 upvote
Gionni Dorelli
By Gionni Dorelli (Apr 3, 2012)

To rettew
It is you..... Try to spend 8k for a scarlet and you will not get even the LCD display or the handle.... Btw the scarlet camera body is more than 8k alone....

2 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

I just love it how some folks who probably did not sell anything they made in HD are now absolutely DEMANDING !!!! 4K and even 8K gear, ha-ha-ha-ha.

"The 4k mode is just extra for people who want to use it for low budget theatrical release movies, in other words indie movie makers and the like."

There are no "low budget theatrical release movies" out there. If it is low budget, it does not get released theatrically, perhaps with one or two exceptions every 6 to 12 months. Those that do get released would be the "high budget" types instead.

0 upvotes
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm pretty sure 3G-SDI does not support true RAW output. Uncompressed != RAW. Stop calling it that.

1 upvote
MediaDigitalVideo
By MediaDigitalVideo (Apr 3, 2012)

In the old days I Loved the Sony EVC-X10.

0 upvotes
Optimal Prime
By Optimal Prime (Apr 3, 2012)

This is a professional tool. Why are so many people here concerned about it looks or too many buttons or no touch screen? Those things are so irrelevant in a professional environment. Sony has truly done an amazing job on this one.

10 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't think this is just for professionals. At such low price, I think it is easy to enter the consumer market. It is really great that we can experience the 4K quality at home.

2 upvotes
AshMills
By AshMills (Apr 3, 2012)

Oh cool, have I missed the announcement of affordable 4K consumer screens, viable delivery formats, and an improvement of average persons' eyesight?

1 upvote
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

4K quality at home = >100' screen viewed from perhaps 200'. That won't leave much space in the mobile home for the pool table, king-sized bed, jacuzzi, and all the road kill hubby drags home for dinner. He'd have to toss out the rear-projection TV and stack it in the parking space next to the '74 Cutlass sitting wheel-less on the cinder blocks with the engine missing. But, heck, you've got to sacrifice to keep in league.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

Did you see the SHARP 8K TV? Not that big... much smaller. Your info must be outdated.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

NEX-series is NOT professional. Prosumer, more likely. And the 28Mb/sec AVCHD codec makes is rather consumerish, really.

As to this being a "4K-ready" camera -- well, maybe. I wouldn't bet the family fortune on it, however.

I also would not bet that 4K will happen and take off, let alone 8K. 4K is a standard that nobody really must have today -- which is why even in cinemas equipped with 4K TI DLP and Sony SXRD DCI-spec'd projectors, most of the hard drives they get from the MPAA distributors are in good old 2K only. Only for screens 65-feet and wider would they bother with a 4K digital copy.

But I guess Jules Verne must have also dreamed about 4K and 8K, so there....

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 4, 2012)

The world is changing so quickly. Don't stay behind.
4K, 8K.... and beyond is the only sustainable way for the big companies like Sharp, Sony, Samsung to earn money from the consumer market. Such big companies would not stop at 2K. No way!

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah, folks who cannot use their own heads will invariably fall victim to corporate greed and their futile attempt in keeping up with the Joneses.

0 upvotes
dstarr3
By dstarr3 (Apr 3, 2012)

I know it's irrelevant, but... Egads. What a minger.

1 upvote
Kenneth Margulies
By Kenneth Margulies (Apr 3, 2012)

Has Sony's video imaging technology surpassed all other brands? Their cameras, both mirrorless and translucent mirror, broke new ground in quality. HDR and panoramic modes surpass the others. NEX in high quality small sized cameras. 24MP in cameras under $1000, with outstanding results, per DPReview. Bravo for Sony. May the competition feel the heat and try to catch up!

10 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

Not really. Arri and Panavision still lead the whole market.
Anyway, the recently announced Sony F65 is really a breakthrough in imaging technology.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Arri's Alexa Blue is not all that great any more, really, plus it costs a mint.

Panavision uses the Sony F35 and "Panavizes" it into the Genesis. Will probably do the same with the F65.

Sony F65 is great, especially if you afford the $6,000 flash memory cards (1TB capacity) for it. You need to get quite a few of these if you want to shoot all day with the camera.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 4, 2012)

When you talk about Arri and Panavision, the focus is not on a particular camera, but on their systems as a whole. Camera is just a portion of the whole story.
The relationship between Panavision and Sony is unclear now, I am doubt whether Panavision will adopt F65...
I don't think you will use F65 to shoot all day long. This camera is purely for movie production purpose, NOT a personal toy. You need a crew of highly trained professionals to run it. It is not a one man job.
Beside, it is rare to buy the system, production houses mainly rent it for movie production.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

All you need is a camera and a lens, really, plus some sort of media (negative film, magnetic video tape, flash drive, SSD) onto which to record what the lens sees and the camera captures. No reason to over-complicate something simple.

The relationship between Sony and Panavision is perfectly simple.

Re. the Sony F65 camera, it's just like any other camera. You can have a small battery in your pocket, the recording unit in your waste pouch, and run around ALL DAY with this camera in hand-held mode. It's not that heavy, really.

You can do with any camera you buy whatever you want. It would still be warranted for one-year, I understand. If you want to use it as your personal toy, I am pretty sure Sony will not stop you from doing so. It is rather unfortunate therefore that the first person shooting a movie with the F65 is one with no apparent talent whatsoever:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-highend-F65.shtml#/f65t1_11

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 4, 2012)

How can you make money by simplifying everything?
Be realistic, it is a business, not hobby.

0 upvotes
psn
By psn (Apr 3, 2012)

I was debating whether to comment and join the rank of amateurs who know more about this camera than the users it was designed for or shut the fsck up... I decided to comment just so I can clutter up DP Review and make myself feel good and intelligent. I'm so amateur.

11 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

Sounds like YOU don't know anything about this camera, either, huh?

0 upvotes
MichelBB
By MichelBB (Apr 2, 2012)

Sorry for my ignorance but 4k of what?

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Apr 2, 2012)

Horizontal pixels, in video.

I intended to put the dimensions in, but I'm not sure which they'll be offering:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

2 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Apr 2, 2012)

My prophecy is that this camera will be a failure. The retro thing has already reached the video pro cameras in a way nothing elegant. My microwave is more beautiful :)

0 upvotes
Fred Mueller
By Fred Mueller (Apr 3, 2012)

yes - it needs more buttons

5 upvotes
Vegasus
By Vegasus (Apr 2, 2012)

For the price, should come with touch screen instead of so many buttons. Or water proof body or bounce proof, or perhaps built in projector....
I think manufactures like Sony or canon etc, they running out of idea where the digital video/photography will go next. Those Professionals are happy to make their movie using eos 5D mark 2. not so heavy in weights and money. :)

0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Apr 2, 2012)

...just completely lacking in features and modes.

6 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Apr 3, 2012)

Seriously? Yep everyone must be happy using a 5D - why would anyone want anything else?!

Touch screen? Yes and maybe they should have a little hole to stick your finger in the loupe viewfinder so you can operate said touch screen? I know here is an idea, why don't they have more direct controls on there instead of a retarded touch screen hunting through menus? Oh wait, they do! Amateur.

2 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 3, 2012)

Vegasus
Take a look of the web sites of Arri, Panavision and Sony F-Serise cameras, then you would get the idea where the digital video/photography will go next.
EOS 5D mark 2 is not for the Hollywood productions.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

We'got the clueless joker brigade out in force on this one, it seems. All "professionals," of course. :-))

0 upvotes
jkokich
By jkokich (Apr 2, 2012)

Ugly box of mostly buttons.

1 upvote
MASTERPPA
By MASTERPPA (Apr 3, 2012)

Love it.. HATE menus.. I love my Ex1r, WHY, because it has BUTTONS

3 upvotes
Musicjohn
By Musicjohn (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't need nor want a square box with features. I want a true camera with a lens attached. Sony should upgrade their EX1-R / EX3 to fascilitate a 35mm cinema sensor, 1920 x 1080 pixels, with 4:2:2 color sampling at 50 MB/s datarate, It should also have SD card slots and 96GB of internal memory as well as HD/SDI output connector and a 20x optical high class zoom. But not these wanna-be movie camera's which aren't even really foto-camera's. What are they, actually... really? All I know is that I don't like them. They are not ergonomic to use, nor for transportations, nor for quick build-up / setup for newsgathering, Please Sony, give us a decent "reporter" cam !!! Same camera concept as NX-5 / EX1-R / EX3 but technically better than the current models. NX-5 / EX1R and EX3. And make the EX1-R have interchangeable lenses!

3 upvotes
MASTERPPA
By MASTERPPA (Apr 3, 2012)

I can tell this site does not have a lot of hardcore videographers. they have had REPORTER cameras for years

3 upvotes
BJL
By BJL (Apr 3, 2012)

This does have a 35mm cinema format sensor: that is what Super 35mm means (for cinema, the 35mm frame is about 24mm wide, not 24mm high) and this is likely for TV production and even low budget movie making, not news reportage.

I think I will trust he design decisions of a very experienced and succesful maker of professional video and digital cine-cameras over all the forum experts who think they instantly know that the design is completely wrong.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
9 upvotes
GodSpeaks
By GodSpeaks (Apr 3, 2012)

You have completely missed the point of this camera.
It is NOT intended for ENG, nor for shooting videos of the kiddies. It is a prfessional Cinema camera, designed for film makers.

1 upvote
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Apr 3, 2012)

Well.... Harrrumph I say, harrumph, harrumph harrumph

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

I just love it how folks who clearly could not afford to spend US$8,000 for ANY digital camera can immediately find all sorts of serious issues with a US$8,000 camera.

@ GodSpeaks: The NEX-FS700 is NOT a "professional cinema camera." It is absolutely not a cinema camera, and it is a basically a semi-pro of quasi-pro level camera for prosumer videographers and micro-budget filmmakers. Sony does have a number of professional cinema cameras -- but this one is not in that class, unfortunately. You cannot call any camera that records at low bitrates and uses AVCHD codec and E-mount lenses "professional" by any stretch of the imagination.

0 upvotes
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Apr 7, 2012)

What's your point? Are you saying that you can't criticize anything you can't afford? Ridiculous.

The guy's points are totally valid. They're the ones choosing to call it a "cinema" camera when it's not.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

@ Francis: Perhaps read my comment anew and maybe you'll get my points.

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (Apr 2, 2012)

Interesting that they would make a consumer 4k camera instead of building this off their PMWF3.

0 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Apr 3, 2012)

New F3 will probably come a bit later with onboard 4K recording rather than through an outboard recorder.

1 upvote
d3xmeister
By d3xmeister (Apr 2, 2012)

I have never seen so many buttons on a device before. I mean, what all that stuff do ? Can you turn all OFF ?

2 upvotes
mick232
By mick232 (Apr 2, 2012)

Who was typing this text for you then? A simple device like my keyboard has 102 "buttons" and therefore a lot more than this camera.

14 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 3, 2012)

The reason for the buttons is that a touch screen menu would be too complex for anyone to remember or navigate. Only experts need all the complex controls. They could stick a piece of tape or gum next to the button for their favorite effect.

0 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Apr 2, 2012)

Seeing that there aren't even monitors yet that support 4k, the incessant whining for more than 4k for a reasonable price is foolish. 4k is supported by a small number of theatres. If you can't afford the camera and lenses, you can't afford to target a small number of extremely high end projection facilities. It's that simple.

Of course it's nice to have the best today and look forward to tomorrow. But don't let that stop you today. Or do. Whatever. Just quit whining. Or I'm going to whine that you're whining.

2 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Apr 2, 2012)

Before making claims such as in your first paragraph, it helps to know the facts. There are and have been 4K displays for a while now.
Next fact, 4K is about to go mainstream in TV's and players. Which makes 4K recording devices all that more helpful...

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
Almeida
By Almeida (Apr 2, 2012)

Also it's about future proofing your work.

3 upvotes
Joesiv
By Joesiv (Apr 2, 2012)

It's an interesting thing.

Curious, how many 12MP computer monitors are available? Or 22MP monitors, 36MP? Even if we don't factor in printing, still cameras have MP counts far exceeding computer monitors, and you know what, that's fine. Either you have archived files that will hold up over time, or you can downsize for great clarity for screen use.

Video is similar, you shoot 4K for pristine 2k, while retaining 4k for potential future usage.

2 upvotes
BJL
By BJL (Apr 3, 2012)

There are about 8000 cinemas in the US using Sony 4K projection systems, and the advantage over 2K or 1080p is noticable at least from the front part of a cinema, so the move to 4K is clearly coming.

6 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

4K is not going anywhere fast. Re. the the number of screens in the USA that have 4K projectors, take the PJ manufacturer numbers and divide by 6, and you are getting close.

The main reason for the Sony 4K PJs is for showing 3D at 2K. For 2D presentations, 4K is not needed until you get to screens wider than 65-ft wide. Which is why most of the 3D projectors already installed in cinemas -- Barco, Christie, NEc brand, DCI compliant Texas instrument 3-chip DLPs and Sony SXRDs -- are happily showing 2K rez footage out of dirt-cheap 72000RPM spinning drives, as per DCI.

4K TVs and desktop monitors are a total waste for now, maybe one day... if/when the 4K world indeed arrive, films will be re-scanned at 4K, the rest of the 4K content will be coming from Full-HD to 4K upscaling.

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 5, 2012)

Even today, the rich folks with 4k projectors use them to see upscaled 1920x1080 Blu-rays, or perhaps upscaled DVD "ripped" from VHS grade video. A waste. So few people will have 4k screens that it won't be commercially viable to rescan old movies at 4k. If Blu-ray continues to trail DVD in market share, it would be natural to expect that 4k sales would be a smaller sub-fraction. Will you pay $50 for the 4k version of a movie, if the BD version costs $12 and the DVD version costs $3?. On a 10" iPad screen at 5mbps they'll all look the same, unless you use a magnifying glass.

Imagine the 4G bill for downloading a 4k version of a movie!

1 upvote
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Apr 5, 2012)

Hmm? 4kmonitors have been around a while? Link me to a 4k monitor. I double dog dare ya. And I triple dog dare you to walk into a brick and mortar and buy one. You can't today. Period.

Been around a while? You mean the IBM monstrosity? Yeah, that's not even true 4k, and they had horrid refresh rates.

Until they're cheaper than a used Civic, they're not ready for mainstream consumption.

And yeah, so 8,000 theatres have shown less feature films shot 4k than you can count on both hands, even if you're missing fingers.

It's exciting tech, but we ain't there yet. Good on Sony for bringing some tech to bear that will get us there, but most aren't on board this ship yet. That's just the status quo. Wake me when we leave port...

0 upvotes
Francis Sawyer
By Francis Sawyer (Apr 7, 2012)

"4K is not needed until you get to screens wider than 65-ft wide."

Pretty standard bullshít proclamation. Kinda like "you don't need anything this good. The average person can't tell the difference."

Who elected you spokesman for the planet? If I go to the trouble to shoot a movie and perfect the look and effects, I don't need it degraded to where it's "good enough" for 51% of the people. If it's good enough for EVERYBODY, it's good enough for the "average consumer."

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

@ Francis Sawyer: You don't seem to know much about digital cinemas, if anything. So, if you have the time this month, go to this conference here and get educated, and why wouldn't you?

http://www.cinemacon.com/

Now, you were saying how you gotta be shooting "your movie" at 16K capture resolution, or what are you saying exactly, Mate?

0 upvotes
ianimal
By ianimal (Apr 2, 2012)

I like the in-camera ND filters.
Would welcome that in a SLT or NEX camera also.
And selectable EU or US video modes. E.g 24p is a native Blu-Ray mode
but Sony EU cameras don't give us that option. So please Sony also
add 24p to your NEX and SLT cameras here in Europe.

0 upvotes
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (Apr 2, 2012)

Unlikely to get built in ND filters in a stills camera as on video cameras like this and the AGAF101 the ND filter is in the space that the shutter usually takes up.

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (Apr 2, 2012)

The Fuji X100 has built in ND filters.. but, thats a different beast.

0 upvotes
Ruy Penalva
By Ruy Penalva (Apr 2, 2012)

Really, we d'ont have affordable camcorders in the market. No affordable camcorder, around 4K U$, offer the 5D MKII video image quality. But that one should not be affordable.

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 2, 2012)

Sure we do: Panasonic AF-100 and Sony FS100 are both large sensor pro video cameras in the $4-5,000 range. But something tells me this new Sony will be priced closer to the Canon C300 and Sony's excellent F3.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 31 seconds after posting
1 upvote
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Apr 2, 2012)

What exactly are you shooting that you need better than a Nex?

0 upvotes
Ruy Penalva
By Ruy Penalva (Apr 3, 2012)

I wish I have one affordable, made by Canon, to fit my Canon lens, in the range of 4K U$.

0 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Apr 3, 2012)

Either a) wait for Canon to bring out a C100, b) use metabones adapter with Sony VG10/20 FS100/700 or c) use with Panasonic AF100 with adapter (there was a metabones style one coming for m43).

2 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 3, 2012)

Get FS100 (street prices around $4000-$5000) + meatabones EOS to E-mount adapter that has electronic contacts for Canon lenses.

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 5, 2012)

As stateding the holy book of Apocrypus, 5:III, "A FF sensor doth not a Hollywood director maketh thee."

Canon's HF G10, at $1.2k, offers a lot of bang for the buck. The Panasonic TM900 is an even better bargain. No need for an H-bomb if mere dynamite does the job. Gotta leave aside some money to pay for your set decorations, music score, special effects, screenplay writers, lead actors, extras, and promotional merchandise.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 7, 2012)

@ Cy, I guess I am not quite following you as to why you are mentioning 1/4-inch and 1/3-inch sensor consumer camcorders in connection with this Super 35mm sensor, $8,000 Sony camcorder that is probably a prosumer or quasi-pro level gear?

0 upvotes
dylanbarnhart
By dylanbarnhart (Apr 2, 2012)

The FS700 is more than 10 times faster than the speedy Nikon D4.

Sony NEX-FS700: 240fps at 8MP per frame = 1,920MP/second throughput
Compare to Nikon D4: 11fps at 16.2MP per frame = 178MP/second throughput

(Yes I know the Sony can only do that for an 8 second burst)

0 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Apr 2, 2012)

Right, and the Sony can't autofocus for crap. Horses for courses...the D4 is primarily as stills camera (thank god they're still making them!)

1 upvote
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (Apr 2, 2012)

@ micahmedia:
You tried one? Even with the LA-EA2 PDAF A-mount adapter?

2 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Apr 3, 2012)

@ michmedia - erm and how is the AF on the Nikon during video? Yeah I thought so. This is NOT a stills camera.

1 upvote
joejack951
By joejack951 (Apr 3, 2012)

Pixels don't equal Mb. Depending on the compression used, Sony's HD-quality (not 4K-quality, unless I've misread) 240fps video might only be 400kb per frame, or ~96Mb/s. A D4 uncompressed 14-bit raw file is 34.3Mb, or at 11fps, 377Mb/s. Neither can sustain that rate for very long as you've noted.

2 upvotes
dylanbarnhart
By dylanbarnhart (Apr 3, 2012)

@ joejack951, I didn't notice that the 240fps is only at "full HD", not at 4K. Good point.

The Sony can output raw to its 3G-SDI connector.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

First off, the FS700 is NOT a 4K camera. Maybe one day?

Re. aufocusing.... this one will be able to do autofocus, whereas none of the overpriced Canikon DSLRs can do squat for autofocus when in video mode. And due to their almost 80 years old flipping mirror design, they do not even have a working vidwefinder in video mode. Not an optical viewfinder. And not an electronic viewfinder, except the glossy LCD screen.

I am simply amazed anyone is actually shooting video with a DSLR -- could not still figure out the 'why' part, however.

0 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Apr 5, 2012)

Hahalirious--AF smoothly during video, I'm sure it does, which it's true the DSLRs makers haven't figured out yet--different math and tracking scheme.

Speed? DSLRs win, hands down. They're made to focus instantly, which is jerky. That's why it doesn't work for motion. Like I said, horses for courses. This video rig could never shoot sports stills because it's AF isn't designed to track the same way.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, the pellicle mirror is some wunderkind that allows fast frame rates, but the system still isn't up to the level of AF speed/accuracy you can get with Canon and Nikon's top gear. In fact, I don't think the AF of the A77 even compares well with my D7000. Yes, I've tried it. Yes, it's crap in comparison. Usable, but not as good by comparison. No, I haven't tried the mirror adapter on a Nex, but I can't believe it would be magically better than the A77.

0 upvotes
audijam
By audijam (Apr 2, 2012)

where is the cigar lighter?

0 upvotes
Virvatulet
By Virvatulet (Apr 2, 2012)

Since there isn't any this would be a great moment for taking first steps towards better quality of life.

2 upvotes
michael pappas
By michael pappas (Apr 2, 2012)

Technology is moving rapidly, and now 4K is the next jump. While the highest of media research is starting to explore in labs future jumps like 6k + 8K for acquisition; which will happen faster than predicted years ago. As for the FS700, Sony fights hard when it wants to stay at the top. It will be interesting to see how the competition strikes back.

Pappas
http://PAPPASARTS.WORDPRESS.COM
http://TWITTER.COM/PAPPASARTS

0 upvotes
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Apr 2, 2012)

...you need a viable output medium first. It doesn't exist yet. The highest res monitors are still only on par with the iPad 3. We've been stuck are 1080p for a while, and I don't see any signs of that changing overnight.

And what's with the link spam? If we care enough about you we'll look at your profile. Proper netiquette, please.

0 upvotes
Joesiv
By Joesiv (Apr 2, 2012)

wasn't there 8k at the last CES? ;)

1 upvote
michael pappas
By michael pappas (Apr 3, 2012)

Why shoot at 4K or higher? For the same reason we shoot medium format. Not that you can deliver that to your given audience, cause you can't. It's so you have more options to work with in the lab/post environment, as well future proofing for decades to come for those projects.

As for spam- not a single dime made on any of it. It's my signature, that's all. I don't spam.

Pappas
http://PAPPASARTS.WORDPRESS.COM
http://TWITTER.COM/PAPPASARTS

1 upvote
michael pappas
By michael pappas (Apr 3, 2012)

Yes 8K was demoed- I was at a private demo years ago of a pre-8K system. It was astonishing to say the least. When this becomes acquisition level it will be like working in the resolution of medium format/4x5, however with motion.

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 3, 2012)

"wasn't there 8k at the last CES? ;)"

That was $65,000 F65. This is $8000 FS100. The difference of $57,000

1 upvote
abortabort
By abortabort (Apr 3, 2012)

Acquisition formats in all areas almost always exceed distribution formats by a long long way. It will be quite some time before 4K and above are in the majority of homes etc. However in a push for greater pixel densities in other areas this will probably come about a fair bit quicker than usual (though distro will still be way behind).

We have had 4K LCD monitors since 2001 at least.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 4, 2012)

We've got them coming out of the woodworks, it seems. I knew we've had them 4K fanboys and 8K fanatix, and now -- the 6K class of troops are also invading our senses.

I guess some folks always must have something that we do not have. And for a good reason.

@ ET2: Sony F65 camera is a 4K camera with a larger photosite count sensor. Maybe one day it can shoot higher rez video than 4K, who knows. Right now, it costs over $100,000, and the memory flash card (SSD) for it costs $6,050 for a 1TB card.

People have been shooting at 4K and higher for many decades -- it's called motion picture film. You can scan it in at 4K to 8K range now, if you really need that.

0 upvotes
Frank C.
By Frank C. (Apr 2, 2012)

where's the OFF button?

2 upvotes
Mssimo
By Mssimo (Apr 2, 2012)

This camera is going to be a 4k (aka 4,000 buttons). At this time it only has 2k buttons now but they will add a keyboard later bringing the total to 4k+ buttons.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
4 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Apr 2, 2012)

Good one, Mssimo !

1 upvote
David Nall
By David Nall (Apr 2, 2012)

ROFLMAO :) very funny Max

2 upvotes
Maxfield_photo
By Maxfield_photo (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't think they included quite enough buttons, there's still some room near the tripod socket.

15 upvotes
Rubenski
By Rubenski (Apr 2, 2012)

Exactly what I need to tape uncle Arnie's birthday!

7 upvotes
Total comments: 235
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