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Dan Chung asks Canon about EOS-1D C at 4K launch

By dpreview staff on Apr 16, 2012 at 08:07 GMT

Photojournalist and videographer Dan Chung has just got back from Canon's 4K demonstration and product launch, where he saw some footage from pre-production EOS-1D Cs. He also asked some more questions about the EOS-1D C and C500. He spoke to Canon's Tim Smith, who further clarified how the company's Cinema EOS range fits together and says the inability to shoot in PAL-compatible 25p footage 'might need to be looked at.'


Dan Chung reports:

At its NAB product presentation, Canon tonight gave technical information about the EOS-1D C (and C500 Cinema EOS) cameras and showed footage from the preproduction cameras to a select crowd on a big screen at a Las Vegas cinema. The most impressive thing to me was a short film shot on the EOS-1D C by Hollywood Director of Photography Shane Hurlbut that showed that in the right hands this new DSLR really is capable of amazing 4K imagery.

Hurlbut, who recently filmed Hollywood blockbuster 'Act of Valor' on Canon DSLRs, likened the 4K image from the EOS-1D C to that produced by traditional Kodak 35mm cine film. He also noted that the camera’s form factor allowed for the same remarkably versatile shooting style which professionals found so attractive about Canon's original video-enabled DSLR, the EOS 5D MkII. Having seen the images for myself I have to say I agree with him.

Canon's Tim Smith talked Dan Chung through the company's 4K cameras

I asked Canon’s Tim Smith who the 1D-C is aimed at. He told me that although the EOS-1D C can be used for many different applications it is primarily aimed at the 'cinema' market. This is a conscious decision on Canon’s part to segment the high end stills camera market from the needs of video professionals. According to Smith, because of its relatively small size and the option to shoot 4K video to a card it could be a perfect 'B' camera to something like the larger C500 - a camera that you'd be able to place in hard to access places. But the image quality is so good it could also be used as a main camera for productions that need 4K on a lower budget.

Smith also claimed that the EOS-1D C is the 'best still camera in the world' giving the same still image quality as the 1D X and offering all the same features (with the exception of a flash PC sync socket which makes way for a headphone jack) and adding 4K video. Autofocus in stills mode is the same as the 1D X. Stills shooters who also need 4K video are well served by this camera - Smith suggested that the some military, press and sports shooters may fall into this category.

The EOS-1D C shoots 4K at an APS-H crop or Full HD at two other crops.

Unlike the C300 and C500, the 1D C does not offer focus peaking or magnification of the image during shooting, which Smith said is because the camera is built on the 1D X chassis. Apart from the addition of the higher-resolution video, the camera's function set is otherwise unchanged. Phase detection AF is unavailable in video mode, too, for the same reason.

Canon demonstrates how its 4K models fit into its Cinema EOS lineup

One thing that professional videographers might have spotted is that the 1D C only shoots 4K images at cinema standard 24P frame rate, not 25P as is commonly used in European and Asian TV broadcast. When I asked about this Smith said that this was an issue that 'might have to be looked at'.

Canon demonstrated how the 1D C's output fits into a series of post-production workflows

Asked as to why the the 1D C features are not simply part of standard 1D X spec Smith claimed it had different engineering and is therefore more costly. Most pro stills shooters will be happy with the 1D X HD video capability, but the 1D C provides a solution for those who think they need 4K.

Smith could also see news and sports shooter using the 4K video mode to pull 8 megapixel stills out of the footage. The possible scenarios would be finish line shots at sporting events or other hard to catch action. This will be helped by the Mjpeg compression system which encodes each video frame separately and not as group of frames like Mpeg.

In short - unless you have an interest in or need for 4K video then there is no need to look at the 1D C over the less costly 1D X.

Comments

Total comments: 88
Hilmi Murat
By Hilmi Murat (Apr 21, 2012)

They are playing Russian Roulette and the bullet is on the way while the gun points the Canon. I am a canon user for more than twelve years and announced products didn't satisfy me yet...

2 upvotes
Camphoneguy
By Camphoneguy (Apr 24, 2012)

Agreed- seems like Canon is out for the video market while leaving the still photographer to wonder what's next. I'll be waiting for a 7d replacement while Nikon jumbles their lineup with a D3200?
It reminds me of the car companies when the Japanese started shipping compacts. Detroit stuck to the money making big cars and when the demand went for compacts, they lost out.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 21, 2012)

Exciting new Canon camera announcements of April 2012, wow!!!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

0 upvotes
mugupo
By mugupo (Apr 19, 2012)

Canon too slow, you can't compete Red One, they just too far ahead.

0 upvotes
New Guy Wanna Learn
By New Guy Wanna Learn (Apr 18, 2012)

Is it possible to for magic lantern to make 4k mode available on 550D or on of its current supported DSLR?

Anyone who knows pls let me know...just curious to know. Thanks!

0 upvotes
jackpro
By jackpro (Apr 17, 2012)

NAB news - RED Dragon 6K sensor upgrade eyes-on

0 upvotes
jackpro
By jackpro (Apr 17, 2012)

From NAB - Canon shows off prototype 30-inch 4K reference display,

0 upvotes
Rexyinc
By Rexyinc (Apr 17, 2012)

The only reason I'm interested in 4k right now is to compress downers to 1080p with a hopefully nicer looking footage then the current 1k junk cameras they tried to sell us now called d800 and 5d's etc... 4k also allows me to digitally punch in my shots in edit to 1080 1:1 this would be handy for steady cam also, but I'm not paying this much extra for what is bascally a firmware upgrade minus the headphone jack, which was probably put in by design so everyone would think its a different camera hahaha... Can't wait for the 1st YouTube videos that pulls both cameras to bits and examines the guts and proves me right!

Sorry but the black magic cinema camera that came out yesterday for $3k is exactly what I wanted, I'm ordering three tomorrow for a feature doco film. I'm over shadow crushes and highlights blown due to low 8bit compressed junk footage.. I want clean prores straight to ssd via thunderbolt.. And high dynamic range and no compression mossy noise

Canon and Nikon just got owned

1 upvote
JonB1975
By JonB1975 (Apr 17, 2012)

No PAL - and only North America & Japan use NTSC (Never The Same Colour) ??

Granted those are probably the two biggest individual markets but to ignore THE REST OF THE WORLD????

oops

1 upvote
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (Apr 16, 2012)

Funny how when video first appeared in DSLRs people/reviewers were bashing the MJPEG codec as 'inefficient' and yet now we're back to MJPEG for the pros.

1 upvote
DaytonR
By DaytonR (Apr 16, 2012)

It is quite ironic ! I couldt believe it I had to read it again.........a Canon camera filming in MJPEG !!

1 upvote
aerowing
By aerowing (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm very pleased that Canon always try to impress us by the spec, no matter 1Dx, 1Dc or C500. But back to the basic, quality image isn't count by pixel, therefore I'm glad that Canon and Nikon knowing the optimal lens resolution capacity about 18MP, above pixel above 18MP those pixel almost meaningless in quality, those are only loads of irrelevant data.

Back to the topic, for the video quality-wise, I can't see any significant improvement in video quality by color bit-rate, gradient capture and the smoothness of the rolling shutter. I'm really longing for Canon can provide more details and comparison on these.

0 upvotes
aerowing
By aerowing (Apr 16, 2012)

And lastly, 1Dx and 1Dc are EF mount basic, which is benefit for photo-jounlist, since they don't have to invest lots of money to buy PL mount lens for video taking. I'm curious, why Canon making 4K video lens? is it because the old EF lenses don't have enough resolution? The price tag on Canon EF/PL 4K video lenses start from US$40k, compare to Zeiss Compact Prime, US$4k~5k. Compare to Canon EF photography prime lens US$2k, those new Video 4K video lenses worth 20 times more than the EF prime lenses? is it all because the new 4K video lenses got a step less aperture ring?

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 16, 2012)

Once again, you need to go back to the basic theories of economy.
Selling price is NOT determined by the cost of manufacturing; Selling price is determined by the market.
Those cine lenses are not made for general consumer market but made for the market where high quality and high precision are required; and the target market is generally able to pay at such price level.
Canon is correct to earn as much profit as possible. Nothing wrong to them.

0 upvotes
Ilkka Nissilä
By Ilkka Nissilä (Apr 17, 2012)

Video lenses have the mechanics for precise manual focus, the zooms do not change focus while zooming, and angle of view is kept constant while focusing. The zoom range in some cases is quite extensive. This costs considerably and additional bulk (check the weight) makes the cinema lenses unattractive for general still photography or mobile work. Thus they are small market only and the research and development cost has to be divided by number of units sold, i.e. tens, hundreds, not tens or hundreds of thousands as is the case for still photography lenses.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (Apr 17, 2012)

180M shouldn't be a problem. there is no such thing as "best resolution for lenses" until the sensor resolution becomes many times of that of the best lenses. higher resolution means better quality even the image looks soft with low pixel-level contrast.

basically you can think that 8K (30-40MPix) will be the standard for videos and 16K (120-160MPix) the standard for stills. more than 160MPix could be called "high resolution" I think.

0 upvotes
marianco
By marianco (Apr 16, 2012)

The price leader for 4K Professional Cameras is Red.

When you price a Red Scarlet 4K camera starter kit, you realize that without lenses, the price starts at $17,000 for the body with battery, LCD screen, etc.

The Red Zoom lenses start at $6000 for a 17-50 mm Zoom.
The Red Prime lenses start at $4250 for the 100 mm lens.

In comparison, Canon's EOS-1D C costs only $15,000. And you can start your lens kit with the $120 50mm prime or the $950 24-105 L Zoom.

Canon is so much less expensive.

0 upvotes
manakiin
By manakiin (Apr 16, 2012)

You can use Canon lenses on Scarlet.

Scarlet is RAW and has proper video features.

1D C is a dslr with compressed 4k video.

5 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 16, 2012)

For folks with money for devices to handle RAW video or rechannel the Amazon, fine. 4k RAW is a much vaster thing than AVI was for SD. Someone shooting in the field (without the RED army quatermaster for help), or doing casual work, must have a camera that shoots compressed. MJPEG is not particularly compressed. Any extended 4k shooting would require MP4 of the sort shot with the JVC. Yes, there are tradeoffs, but money and convenience are sometimes the priority.

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (Apr 16, 2012)

RED is definitely the leader in video, but they don't provide a camera that can also work as 1DX.

0 upvotes
teeoh717
By teeoh717 (Apr 18, 2012)

The fact that RED's shoot RAW video inherently make it that much more expensive. Suddenly your workflow becomes a thousand times more complicated, often requiring a slew of accessories (many of which are essential in the first place).
I will agree that with a DSLR and a lens, you're good to go. Throw in a CF card and start shooting.

Try to do the same with a RED, and I wish you luck—because you're going to need it.

That said, you're getting what you pay for with both time and money. The end result of the RED will of course trounce any compressed DSLR footage.

All depends on what is needed to get the job done.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
marianco
By marianco (Apr 16, 2012)

For those who can afford 4K video (e.g. MULTIPLE $5000 30-inch monitors, multi-terrabyte hard drive, top-end computers), then the EOS-1D C is a CHEAP, INEXPENSIVE camera body for their collection.

Cameras are priced to their intended customer. Obviously, this is priced for film studios that can easily afford it.

It is not priced for mere mortals and cheapskates.

7 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (Apr 16, 2012)

I bet the "C" costs not a penny more to produce than the "X" does, even if it is rewired. I can see there being a 5DC with 2k, not raw but 2K. Knowing Canon they will cripple it with 6bit or something daft.
Clearly when Canon where asking the pro's what they want in a camera, it was only pros in America and ones that always work with a large film crew and a big budget.
I wish Canon would ask me.

Kevin.

1 upvote
Ilkka Nissilä
By Ilkka Nissilä (Apr 16, 2012)

The cost of the changes from 1D X to achieve the 1D C have to be divided by the number of units expected to sell. Perhaps it is 300 units instead of 100000 for the 1D X. Thus the high price is necessary for the product to pay for its development instead of making a loss for the company.

5 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (Apr 16, 2012)

Do we really need both cameras? One camera the "C" would of covered pretty much everything (apart from the sync).
The "C" does the same as the "X" with better video options
We would then of had the 5DIII with it's video quality and an "X" with an upgraded video which would put daylight between it and the D4.
I don't see a need for both.

1 upvote
Ilkka Nissilä
By Ilkka Nissilä (Apr 17, 2012)

From what I've understood, the 1D C suffers greater taxes in Europe due to its unlimited recording time (classified as a camcorder instead of a still camera which enjoys lower tax). This tax difference alone makes it difficult to sell a 1D X with 1D C feature set to still photographers (which are the majority) who may want to shoot a bit of video also. Only the hard core filmmakers will agree to the higher cost (because in making a film, the cost of the camera is insignificant) which means a 1D C cannot be sold at 1D X price + higher tax. If one 1D C is made per 1000 1D X:s, it means R&D cost per unit of the 1D C will be 1000 times greater (except for the parts shared by the 1D X and 1D C, for which the costs per camera are equal).

0 upvotes
Superka
By Superka (Apr 16, 2012)

I still don''t understand this 1DC. 4K motionJpeg? What for? only for the 24 fps stills, actually. For video I''d prefer 2K RAW footage. The price is not just too high. It is ridiculous.

3 upvotes
Sdaniella
By Sdaniella (Apr 16, 2012)

1DC definitely an all round compact Cine camera (with large sensor lower dof flexibility)

I've seen the tight 5DMkIII footage for 'Act of Valor' where some scenes are so tight no traditional 'larger body' videocamera would ever fit or be used in the way the 5DMkII could. Question is, will there be a 4K version in FF 'single-grip' body or not? An FF 18.3Mp 6D C ?

Unless of course 'Act of Valor' was shot in 'dual-grip' mode with its 5DMkII in those tightest shots.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 16, 2012)

Video stuff aside, a Canon employee claiming the 1D C is the "best still camera in the world" kind of like a New Yorker calling the Yankees the best baseball time in the world.

Glowing praise aside, I'm not sure how you conclude superiority based on the specs of a phantom camera that nobody has shot with or tested.

3 upvotes
Sdaniella
By Sdaniella (Apr 16, 2012)

what phantom camera would that be?
didn't they just mention having seen footage for it?

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 16, 2012)

1DX.

0 upvotes
mgrum
By mgrum (Apr 16, 2012)

It's basically the 1DX with some extra cooling and a headphone jack. So they're really saying the 1DX is the best still camera in the world, which comes down to how you define "best".

2 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Apr 16, 2012)

@marike6- Yes, it's a "phantom camera". It doesn't really exist. LOL. Yeah, right. I think it's a bit more real than you think.

0 upvotes
photogalleryonline
By photogalleryonline (Apr 16, 2012)

Imagine the day when you spend your $1000k on a DSLR and you think nothing of shooting 4k video cause your ipad, iphone and TV etc plays 4k native, i'm tipping its only 4/5 years away.......I am just waiting for the day that all devises can beam to a screen or hd drive or cloud without all the current d$cking around of wifi, dnla, ip, wep and cable rubbish we have to deal with now. I mean can't apple make the bloody ipad suck the photos off my camera without me having to plug in an adaptor, then wait for about an hour, just to view the pics on its nice screen....mmm.... or worse still, put em on your computer, then put em on your goflex wifi hd drive, then stream them to your ipad....mmmmm, and when is wifi dslr native coming so i don't have to buy another bloody adaptor.....sorry gripes for today finished. Yes beautiful 4k Canon cameras...I wonder if Nikon is planning a similar step into Cinema Production, I'm sure you could do something with 36 million pixels other than fill my HD!

0 upvotes
Just a Photographer
By Just a Photographer (Apr 16, 2012)

What's you problem?

Jealous about a 36MP camera?
Nobody says you need it... but out of your comment I can see you wanted it soooo much.

I am sure Nikon one day will come with a 4K cam too.
Its not the question if, but when....

0 upvotes
nomiss777
By nomiss777 (Apr 16, 2012)

What's you problem?

Jealous about a 4k camera?
Nobody says you need it... but out of your comment I can see you wanted it soooo much.

I am sure Canon one day will come out with a 36MP cam too. Its not the question if, but when...

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Daryl Cheshire
By Daryl Cheshire (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm not sure of the main difference between the EF lenses and the movie lenses with the red mounts (PL?)
One guess is that it's meant to be coupled to a focus puller knob and possibly has more precise aperture/zoom settings.
I know that DoF is more important to movie shooting.

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (Apr 16, 2012)

breathing

2 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Apr 16, 2012)

PL is not "RED" mount. It was developed by Arri and it's now standard on many video cameras.

All these cameras use PL mount:

Arri Alexa, Red One, Red Epic, Red Scarlet, Sony F35, Sony F65, Sony F3, Phantom, Canon C300

Now, what's especial about E-mount (as in Sony's FS700, and FS100), is that they can use PL lenses, Canon lenses, Nikon lenses, Leica M, Pentax lenses, and the native E-mount lenses. The cameras can do PDAF AF with A-mount lenses (using SLT adapter).

Basically, nothing beats the E-mount for flexibility in the camcorder world.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Daryl Cheshire
By Daryl Cheshire (Apr 16, 2012)

I meant the colour red not RED

0 upvotes
mgrum
By mgrum (Apr 16, 2012)

The main differences are optimisations to reduce focus breathing as Jogger states, and really well damped zoom and focus rings with a lot of travel.

They may also cover a smaller image circle as the spec says they are for the super 35 format, which is roughly APS-C

0 upvotes
bradleyg5
By bradleyg5 (Apr 16, 2012)

"In short unless you have an interest or need for 4K video then there is no need to look at the 1D C over the 1D X."

I have a firm feeling that the 1DC will have vastly better 1080P video clarity, given how soft the 5dIII footage is I'm not expecting much more from the 1D X.

I don't want 4k i want an upgrade path from the 5dII. I'm hoping that the 1dx can achieve superior 1080P performance given that the sensor is apparently capable of so much more. I have a hard time believing that the duel digic 5+ 1dx is not capable of doing 1080 60P as is.

0 upvotes
Confused of Malvern
By Confused of Malvern (Apr 16, 2012)

OK, so I've managed to glean that '4K' apparently refers to 4096 x 2160 pixel video capture - but I've no idea why that matters, what difference it makes or whether I should be bothered.

Come on dpreview, explain the basics to us mere mortals who have only ever used dSLR's for stills photography. All I understand at the moment is that this camera shoots video and costs a lot of money - it's irrelevant to me on both counts but I'm still interested in understanding why it's supposedly so special.

2 upvotes
ScottieC
By ScottieC (Apr 16, 2012)

The current standard in TV is 1k video, 1920x1080. It's only going to be a short time before the new tv's come out as 4k TV which is about 4096x2160 or four times your current monitor resolution. 4k Ability now means your video's will be usable full screen later on.

1 upvote
JohnHess
By JohnHess (Apr 16, 2012)

HD is much closer to 2k. Tv standards always refer to verticle resolution while these film terms refer to horizontal resolution.

As far as 4k in the home, it's prettyi much pointless as out eyes don't have the resolving power to see such resolution

0 upvotes
Dimitri Khoz
By Dimitri Khoz (Apr 16, 2012)

“By ScottieC
It's only going to be a short time before the new tv's come out as 4k TV which is about 4096x2160...
4k Ability now means your video's will be usable full screen LATER ON.”

Ok, so now we do not have media to watch those 4K videos.
So why not to wait till “later on” when the price of 4K cameras will be not higher than
of FullHD cameras now? :-)

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 16, 2012)

By JohnHess: "As far as 4k in the home, it's prettyi much pointless as out eyes don't have the resolving power to see such resolution."

That's what one might think, except perhaps on a very large screen. Why, then, is Apple able to convince that a 9" iPad3 screen conveys far better resolution than the 1280x800 2011 iPad2 model? "Cause Apple says so," may be proof enough for many. Simon says...

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (Apr 16, 2012)

4K is the next topic after 3D. the large screen TV sets will go 4K from this year. they interpolate 1920x1080 HD broadcast into 4K which will look much better, while waiting for true 4K contents from cameras like 1DC.

0 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (Apr 16, 2012)

You might notice in real life the closer you examine something, the tinier details you can see.

Hence a new iPad at 16" is a Retina display, and an HDTV at 6' is a Retina display. Unless you sit 16" from your TV, in which case may be you do need 4k home video.

0 upvotes
Rexyinc
By Rexyinc (Apr 17, 2012)

Black magic just owned canon and Nikon and the rest of them!

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Rexyinc
By Rexyinc (Apr 17, 2012)

Actually the main reason for 4k is because 3d totally failed and if you look at the losses for the last 3-4 years of all the major tv panel makers, they have all lost billions on them... So the only way to make us all go out and buy new flat panel tv sets is to convince us all that we really need 4k now to watch tv on... If 3d really took off then we would not be pushed all this 4k business...

The only reason I'm interested in 4k right now is to compress downers to 1080p with a hopefully nicer looking footage then the current 1k junk cameras they tried to sell us now called d800 and 5d's etc...

Sorry but the black magic cinema camera that came out yesterday for $3k is exactly what I wanted, I'm ordering three tomorrow for a feature doco film. I'm over shadow crushes and highlights blown due to low 8bit compressed junk footage.. I want clean prores straight to ssd via thunderbolt.. And high dynamic range and no compression mossy noise

Canon and Nikon just got owned by black magic !

0 upvotes
garyknrd
By garyknrd (Apr 16, 2012)

Ok, that clears things up nicely. Before I had no idea what it was or what it was for. Now I have a vague idea what it is, I think. I am so confused.
Maybe with 4 or 5 more explanations on the next 4 or 5 days will help.
LOL, just ignore me.

2 upvotes
Vegasus
By Vegasus (Apr 16, 2012)

In the pass few days, ppl here winning or say something not supportive including me, but i relies that the new type of this camera is for the next generation in the movie business. It's like a trial, once everyone in cinematography like the product, I bet Canon will be making medium format 3x4.5 cm sensor with 12K instead of 4k. hahahaha. Maybe."???

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
ivan1973
By ivan1973 (Apr 16, 2012)

Nikon D4 will be developing its own 4K with cinema lenses. Do not say not possible, it will.

0 upvotes
lensberg
By lensberg (Apr 16, 2012)

Somehow i seriously doubt that Nikon's theoretical implementation of 4K video will ever culminate into fruition...

The D4 sensor isn't even capable of sustaining a steady 60 fps 1080p output... therefore the cap at 30 fps without having to duplicate each individual fame...

Sony will have to completely redesign the D4 sensor & surrounding circuitry to achieve native 4K capture and heat dispensation purposes...

Sony will follow suit with 4K video in their DSLR line up... so will Panasonic... as for Nikon... well i wouldn't count your chickens before they hatch...

0 upvotes
Chaitanya S
By Chaitanya S (Apr 16, 2012)

sensor of this camera is developed specially for shooting movies unlike D4 which was designed for still primarily.

1 upvote
mgrum
By mgrum (Apr 16, 2012)

Probably wont be the D4, but some manufacturer will come along with no video camera business to protect and make a cheap 4K camera that will completely destroy the market for the 1D C.

The Nikon V1 can do 4K, but only for 1 second bursts. The data rate is there it just needs a bigger buffer.

1 upvote
tonysu
By tonysu (Apr 16, 2012)

yes it's possible, Nikon will get 4k but they will ask uncle Sony to make 4k for them? to compete with canon.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (Apr 16, 2012)

Nikon need to buy/license the technology from someone but there are others who are almost as experienced as Sony, like Panasonic, Hitachi, ...

Nikon have no way to compete with Canon in video. Nikon is not considered as a major player here.

0 upvotes
Izu
By Izu (Apr 16, 2012)

WOW, seems this Dan Chung is the new feature of DPReview... btw isn't this photography review? It seems cinema equipment review, this is the third article about the new Canon cinema camera in the last few days...

1 upvote
Vegasus
By Vegasus (Apr 16, 2012)

Its EVOLVE .... hahahaha I think Dpreview will soon review about handy-cam.

2 upvotes
Lea5
By Lea5 (Apr 16, 2012)

Why not? The camera on my IPad2 is not bad at all.

0 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (Apr 16, 2012)

The line between video and stills is blurring, not in symantics but in use. We all have video and still cameras of some sort, wether we use either is our choice. Just like choosing which reviews we read. I doubt anything got bumped to post the "C" news.
Canon is a major still and video player, the X and C are still cameras with video capability, or visa versa depending on your need. To not report on a feature of a still camera would be a bit strange. A gps feature is not exactly a photographic feature and not useful to everyone, if the camera has it I would like to know about, if it works, how it works and what it costs.Canon Apple Nikon etc are big parts of our photographic lives, it's important we know where they think they are taking us.

4 upvotes
Izu
By Izu (Apr 16, 2012)

I agree, but let's be honest, 3 news stories about this camera? And more about lenses? And who is Dan Chung?

0 upvotes
Samuel Dilworth
By Samuel Dilworth (Apr 16, 2012)

Dan Chung is a well-known photojournalist (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/danchung). His contributions to DPReview are very welcome.

2 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (Apr 16, 2012)

Izu, which stories about it do you not report? If it's news worthy equipment and respected people are passing comment on performance and usefulness, which items do you cut?
Like it or not it's big news to the industry whichever end of it you are.

Kevin.

Comment edited 13 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Izu
By Izu (Apr 16, 2012)

KAllen, they could have made one of the two news "Making sense of Canon's 4K cameras with EOSHD" and "Dan Chung asks Canon about EOS-1D C at 4K launch". That's just an example, I would not even give that much space to professional video equipment on a photography website that is lacking of contents about photography. I don't want to appear as an orthodox and video is welcome but to me this seems too much. Who is so interested in this camera, as a photographer, that want to read three news (and more counting other C cameras and lenses news...) about it? Do we see any comment from other websites or freelance when a still camera is announced?

0 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Apr 16, 2012)

I am with (Izu) completely. I for one could give a fig less about video in my d-SLR, but even if all of a sudden we apparently are supposed to tolerate the presence of a YOUTUBE feature on d-SLRs, because "if you don't want it don't use it" is the mantra, then how are we supposed to respond to a site called "Digital PHOTOGRAPHY Review" all of a sudden getting drunk off the wine of a video-induced high?

Every 2.5 nanoseconds I turn around, there is YET ANOTHER article trumpeting video as the begin-all & end-all as if beautiful photographs all of a sudden are as passé as 8-tracks and horse & buggy carts. Note: I am NOT talking about the CAPABILITY of video being there, but the preoccupation with video as a whole, as if dpreview has forgotten that (I think) most of us here, even if we are OK with video, are mostly interested in PHOTOGRAPHY.

You guys need to remember this & stop your preoccupation with video, or else just change your name to dvreview.com & be done with it.

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
DaveMarx
By DaveMarx (Apr 16, 2012)

"then how are we supposed to respond to a site called "Digital PHOTOGRAPHY Review"'

If it was Digital STILL Photography Review, that would be one thing. If the editors choose to review and report on a broader, rather than narrower definition of photography, what's the harm, so long as they do it well and it doesn't pull down the journal's quality?

0 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Apr 16, 2012)

(DaveMarx) Because video ISN'T photography anymore than golf is basket-weaving. Straight from Wikipedia: "Photographers who produce moving rather than still pictures are often called cinematographers, videographers or camera operators, depending on the commercial context." They also have videographer and videography as completely separate entries, photography isn't even cross-referenced.

And this site is called digital PHOTOGRAPHY review, not digital VIDEOGRAPHY review. STILL is obviously implied & does not need to be stated--at least for those with a little RESPECT for boundaries anyway.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Izu
By Izu (Apr 16, 2012)

WOW, another Zeiss cine lens news in homepage... they should switch to Digital Videography Review. I repeat myself, I don't hate video but let's be honest, this is too much for a photography website! It's not about video in still cameras, we are talking about 20.000$ Zeiss lens here, a clearly professional tool. Why we don't see a well-known professional photographer (as Samuel Dilworth defined Dan Chung) explaining some medium format digital back? Is a professional videocamera more important to a photography website than a professional still camera?!?!?! C'mon...

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
DaveMarx
By DaveMarx (Apr 17, 2012)

(larrytusaz) "Because video ISN'T photography anymore than golf is basket-weaving. Straight from Wikipedia: "Photographers who produce moving rather than still pictures are often called... "'

Your own example (emphasis added), "*Photographers* who produce moving rather than still pictures are *often called...*"

Check the definition of photographer from IndemnityGuard, the UK photographer's insurance company http://www.indemnityguard.co.uk/jargonbuster.asp They seem to be quite willing to insure people who take moving pictures. You'd be hard-pressed to find a golfer's insurance policy that covers basket weavers.

In the motion picture industry they use terms like "principal photography." In movie contracts, the productions are referred to as "photoplays."

To paraphrase an old joke, "... We've determined what you are, now it's just a matter of determining the frame rate."

0 upvotes
Izu
By Izu (Apr 17, 2012)

DaveMarx, we are not in a court and you are not a lawyer... movie and photography are not the same thing and very few photographers are professional videomakers (interested in professional tools) too. So video is welcome, but can't be the main topic on a photography website.

BTW you should know what is a photography director in a movie, that's enough to draw a line between the two worlds.

Oh, and enjoy the new Blackmagic Cinema Camera!!! When will we be able to read about the new 6K sensor from RED? Slashgear and Engadget already wrote about it...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (Apr 16, 2012)

"In short unless you have an interest or need for 4K video then there is no need to look at the 1D C over the 1D X."

OK you don't need 4K, but neither do you need rolling shutter and soft images that the 5DIII and probably X have. Why could we not of had a full spec 1080 clean hdmi output on the X. The gap between the X and C is huge. The 5D and X could of been better without challenging the C. Unless as I suspect there is a 5D C coming along. Which slots between the two.
I can see Canon expecting us all to use frame grabs in the future. A real upgrade for spray and pray shooters.

1 upvote
bradleyg5
By bradleyg5 (Apr 16, 2012)

"I can see Canon expecting us all to use frame grabs in the future. A real upgrade for spray and pray shooters."

You say that like it's a bad thing, let me tell you, I've been shooting lots of video with the 5dII and frame grabs rock. not only is this camera going to shoot 8MP pictures at 24FPS, it's going to do it 100% silently.

This would be be an amazing group portrait camera, continuous lights, camera mounted on a tripod, press record, so much less intimidating. You can spend 100% of your time interacting with the subjects. to imply that knowing instinctively when to press a button makes you a great photographer is naive, so much more to it that is more important.

Comment edited 40 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Ilkka Nissilä
By Ilkka Nissilä (Apr 16, 2012)

Squinting subjects, noisy images, inadequate depth of field - great idea to use continuous lighting for groups. Not.

2 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (Apr 16, 2012)

Then every photographer becomes a videographer/director/producer and every model an actor. Strange times ahead.
Continues light, I would not mind a set of Kino flo, movie industry has worked with continuous lighting since the Lumière Brothers, I don't see noisey images at the Cinema.

0 upvotes
makofoto
By makofoto (Apr 16, 2012)

I could have used that frame grab capability yesterday. I was shooting for a major publication, last minute, that needed a close-up of a tire at the limit of adhesion. Being able to grab a high quality frame from a 24 fps video would have give us a lot more choice.

0 upvotes
dkord
By dkord (Apr 16, 2012)

Different situations, different tools. If you're covering an interview yes frame grab. You're shooting a golfer you can get close, shoot silently and pick out a frame.
But for other situations, knowing when you press that shutter is key because the light is too low or the action is too quick for manual focusing in live view.

0 upvotes
mgrum
By mgrum (Apr 16, 2012)

"In video mode with the 1D C there is still no peaking or magnification of the image with the 1D C, which Smith said is because the camera is built on the 1D X chassis the functions other than 4K and 2K recording have not been changed."

That is fair enough, but why then do Canon feel they can charge over double the price for what is effectively a 1DX with different firmware? This must be the least effort anyone has put into developing a product ever!

1 upvote
skrulm8
By skrulm8 (Apr 16, 2012)

The price is determinded by the value to the consumer, not the effort that went into it.

1 upvote
Revenant
By Revenant (Apr 16, 2012)

It's not just a firmware difference. He said that the engineering is different, and that would make sense considering the heat build-up generated by extended 4K shooting.
Also, pricing is determined by other factors besides the cost of R&D and manufacture, for example the number of units one expects to sell.

2 upvotes
makofoto
By makofoto (Apr 16, 2012)

That's why motion picture lenses and cameras are so expensive. Canon sells millions of lenses, Zeiss/Arri/Angeniuex are lucky to sell 1,000's. Some lenses, like the Arri/Zeiss 8 mm Rectilinear lens is made by the dozens! Thus it cost 10's of thousands. Back in the '80's my Cooke 18/100 mm T3 zoom cost $24,000. Add another few hundred for bracketry. $3K for a zoom motor and zoom controller. But it rented for $305/day ... limited to a 3 day week, ie. production paid for three days and had it available for the week. That lens paid for itself in less then two years. NOW, a similar lens costs over $50K and rents for $550/day. These large fast lenses need to be very robust, track very straight when zooming and have a minimal about of "breathing" when doing focus shifts. Some 100 mm Macro still lenses actually change focal length to as much as 60 mm focal length when focusing!!! That would be totally unacceptable when shooting video.

3 upvotes
tonywong
By tonywong (Apr 16, 2012)

They just should have added $250 to the price of the 1DX and added the 1Dc's functionality. It would have made more profit than the 1Dc alone and then catapulted the 1DX above the Nikon D4 in video, and given another further justification for people to pay twice the price of the 5D3.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 16, 2012)

mgrum,
This is a fundamental theory in free economy...
Selling price is NOT determined by the cost of manufacturing; Selling price is determined by the market.
I don't think Canon's financial experts and marketing people would make any significant error on determination of this camera's selling price.

0 upvotes
Rexyinc
By Rexyinc (Apr 17, 2012)

All I actually see here is a firmware upgrade to 4k for a firmware upgrade that costs you $15k. Bets on the magic lantern guys will hack the c version to do 4k in firmware.. All you miss out on is the headphone jack.. I'm convinced it's the same guts and sensor :)

0 upvotes
Rexyinc
By Rexyinc (Apr 17, 2012)

And there's ZERO difference from the heat off a 4k readout from the same chip or 1k, Jesus it's the same pixels readout but just processed differently.,.

0 upvotes
Rexyinc
By Rexyinc (Apr 17, 2012)

And I bet there's no peaking or magnification of the image because it's processor is busting its nut compressing the 4k onto cf cards and hasn't enought power for much else like playing around with the live view image lol! Magic lantern guys are guessing it's about 15% processing power / clock cycles for peaking code to run and no idea what 4k live zoom magnification would do to the poor over taxed processor!

0 upvotes
Total comments: 88