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Canon working on Cinema EOS C500 4K professional rig

By dpreview staff on Apr 12, 2012 at 13:42 GMT

Canon has announced it is developing the EOS C500, a 4K (4096 x 2160 pixel) capable camera in both EF and PL mounts. The camera will be a continuation of the concept of the C300, will be able to capture of Raw 4K video footage and will offer frame rates of up to 120fps in compressed 4K. It will also be be able to capture 2K footage (2,048 x 1,080 pixels) at 12-bit, with 4:4:4 Y'CbCr chroma sub-sampling for high colour resolution. A prototype will be shown at the NAB broadcast industry trade show next week. Canon adds that it plans for the camera to be available later in 2012 at a target price of around $30,000.


Press Release:

Canon announces development of digital cinema camera supporting 4K video capture

Canon EOS C500 - DEVELOPMENT PROTOTYPE

London, UK, 12 April 2012 – Canon today announces the development of a new digital cinema camera capable of recording 4K-resolution (4,096 x 2,160 pixels) video. Targeting both the motion picture and high resolution digital production industries, the EOS C500 will offer 4K RAW output and will be available with Canon’s EF mount and the industry-standard PL mount.

In November 2011 Canon announced the EOS C300 – the first camera in the Cinema EOS System, marking the company’s entry into the motion-picture and digital production market. Highly acclaimed by video professionals since launch, the EOS C300 offers exceptional video quality performance, outstanding mobility, durability and expandability, thanks to its modular design and its compatibility with Canon’s range of EF and EF Cinema Lenses. The EOS C500/EOS C500 PL will be based on the same advanced platform, adding support for 4K RAW video capture, and 4:4:4 sampling during 2K capture.

Supporting next-generation 4K-resolution video capture and RAW data output, the EOS C500/EOS C500 PL will achieve exceptional video results without any loss in quality. The camera’s uncompressed 4K output will unleash the full potential of Canon’s premium range of EF Cinema Lenses, combining with Canon Log Gamma, which delivers the high-quality video and wide exposure latitude required by digital cinematographers.

Furthermore, 12-bit RGB 4:4:4 signal during 2K (2,048 x 1,080 pixels) video output will deliver rich colour and high compatibility with image processes such as chroma key compositing. Support for frame rates up to 120p in both 4K and 2K resolution will provide enhanced creative flexibility, enabling high-speed (slow motion) video capture in high resolution.

A development prototype of the EOS C500 digital cinema camera will be on display at NAB 2012, one of the world’s largest events for the video, broadcasting equipment and digital media industries. NAB 2012 will take place from April 16-19 in Las Vegas, USA.

Canon EOS C500 - DEVELOPMENT PROTOTYPE

Comments

Total comments: 91
jssqmaty
By jssqmaty (Oct 26, 2012)

What is the 4k raw file format? MXF? Can I edit it with FCP?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
cajunrory
By cajunrory (May 29, 2012)

Where Can I see some footage. IE: low light stuff, exposure differences. the stuff that matters. side by side compares.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 14, 2012)

This just in:

New Canon EF-mount digital camera available for pre-order. Price: US$30,000.00

No kidding about it, either.

http://www.filmtools.com/canon-c500-ef-mount.html

Good thing this Canon camera will hopefully OUTPUT 4K and 2K resolution video signals. Now, all you need to find is a good quality Canon 4K or 2K external video recorder to connect to your C500. Easy as peasy, hopefully.

Don't forget those nifty $45,000 Canon EF-mount "cinema" zooms for your C500, either. Basically with the C500 body, the recommended Canon cinema primes and zooms, and the connected recorder that does not yet exist, you are going to be ready to shoot video at the $150,000s price point, if all goes well.

http://www.filmtools.com/canon-cn-e30-300mm-t2-95-3-7-l-s-ef-lens.html

0 upvotes
MRNICK07
By MRNICK07 (May 16, 2012)

Wow. Do u think $150K is a lot of money for a camera to shoot a feature length film? No, its not. I would say thats about average or a little below average for ONE camera rig. C500 $30,000
30-300 Cinema lens $45,000. External recorder, Canon is working with 6 different companies as of now so lets pick an average cost for a 4K recorder form one of the companies I know Canon is working with) AJA Ki Pro Quad $4,000
Whats our total? $79,000. Looks like we are still why under budget!
Actually, Isn't that about what an Alexa starts at, body only? Maybe its like 60K.
Just because u have no use for a camera like this and think its way expensive doesnt mean that there arent people out there that will buy it and think its a bargain. Its all relative man! Its all about the purpose. Dont forget that Canon sells those Broadcast lenses all the time! and that 100X Zoom is like $200,000. Oh but I forgot. Just because you have no need for it and its way expensive then it must be stupid and have no need

1 upvote
BeanyPic
By BeanyPic (Aug 29, 2012)

A Francis Rant again. The man has no common sense when it comes to cameras. Give him a £29 P&S and that will keep him happy.
Some people hey!!

0 upvotes
DiscreteCosine
By DiscreteCosine (Apr 14, 2012)

4:4:4 is not really a form of chroma "subsampling"; on the contrary, it means chroma is sampled at the same resolution as luma.

I guess if they're going for YCbCr that means they won't support uncompressed output at all (YCbCr allows better compression, but since post-production is always done in RGB, uncompressed video with full chroma sampling is generally stored in RGB, to avoid unnecessary conversions).

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

The way I read this latest one of just this week's Canon camera announcements, this thing will be OUTPUTTING high quality 4K and 2K video via its BNC and HDMI output ports.

Just not being able to RECORD high quality 4K and 2K video, right? Anyone??

So... you will need to connect to it a high quality 4K or 2K external video recorder. Good luck with that workflow and equipment budget, everyone.

What will it record INTERNALLY, using what codec and what bitrate? Wait for the follow-up announcements from Canon, folks.

0 upvotes
GabrielZ
By GabrielZ (Apr 14, 2012)

Mr Carver or who ever you are, I've noticed you a lot in these forums and you never have a good word to say about Canon ever on any of their products. Now that's your prerogative and I'm not asking you to stop. I'm just curious to know, what do you have against Canon? What have they ever done to you?

2 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 14, 2012)

Well, other than selling me a camera with a defective lens way back, Canon did not hurt me much over the years. But at any time a company comes up with this much hyper-bull inside of a few short days, we should certainly make them know that we can see through their charade.

I will be at NAB Las Vegas next week, and I will make triple sure not to waste any of my limited time at the Canon stand, looking at some mock-ups parked behind glass cabinets. I already know all the bull... err, "press releases" from them.

0 upvotes
Ilkka Nissilä
By Ilkka Nissilä (Apr 15, 2012)

Wasn't the RED Scarlet development announced in 2008 and finally the product in 2011. So it seems that announcing development of future products in the digital cinema market is standard practice.

0 upvotes
hammerheadfistpunch
By hammerheadfistpunch (Apr 13, 2012)

Cost to consumers: $30k
Cost to develop, manufacture and market per unit: probably (at most) ~$11 K

Doing business in the "charge what I want" field of profession video: Priceless

2 upvotes
Petka
By Petka (Apr 14, 2012)

How many "consumers" are going to buy this?

Generally all things cost about 10% of their SRP to actually make, the rest is profit, markups, marketing, taxes, freight etc etc...

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 15, 2012)

Canon EF-mount "4K capable" digital camera available for pre-order at a price of US$30,000.

http://www.filmtools.com/canon-c500-ef-mount.html

Problem with that is, the competing Red de-facto 4K cam is around $10,000, and the soon coming Sony NEX-FS700 "4K capable" camera is only $8,000.

Canon is pricing their non-existing wares as if they were an actual player in this lofty 4K area, but they are clearly not. Nor are they the darling of Hollywood filmmakers, sorry.

0 upvotes
MRNICK07
By MRNICK07 (May 16, 2012)

Francis, your right. I'm sure Canon wont sell any of these Silly little C500's. Sort like they didnt sell any C300's.
oops, I mis-spoke. I forgot Canon has a back order of around 2000 C300 units still.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

Looks like Canon is doing a firmware upgrade to their largely unsaleable C300s and calling it the C500, or what?

They are "announcing the development" of a camera????

Gee-whiz, it seems like a million years ago when companies made products and brought them to the marketplace. With Canon at least, it is all just hot air and b.s. galore.

0 upvotes
MRNICK07
By MRNICK07 (May 16, 2012)

Where do you guys get your information?? Its actually hilarious! I dont come on forums much (Now I know why).. Just to set your comment straight Francis..Again. Go try and buy a C300. all you can do is put a deposit down and wait.. They cant keep them on the shelves. There is a huge back order. Do I need to define the work "back-order" for you.. lol!
Obviously you dont keep up on the Cinema market much (why would you?), otherwise you wouldn't be making such stupid comments.

Also, if you would have spent much time at all at the Canon booth at NAB you would have saw all the "hot air and B.S. galore" on their new 4k cinema display. C500 4K footage on a 4K display. Pretty Sweet! But you wouldnt know because you have nothing to do with the Cinema industry. Cheers!

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 13, 2012)

4k RAW is to video what a freight train or ocean tanker is to transportation. It's not anything even a prosumeror "indie" can handle, without substantial investment in ancillary equipment. The incremental benefits of capture in RAW are difficult to translate into benefit for usual projects (see a Luminous Landescape test), though perhaps relevant to Dreamworks Studios or a high budget ad firm.

With hardly any 4k displays outside of commercial theaters, the main attraction of 4k might be to crop video shots the way still photographers do all the time. I've read no user review to date of the $5k JVC camcorder that shoots compressed 4k. It may not even be on the Zacuto radar screen. I doubt the T4i or D5200 will offer 4k video. Might the GH3? At this point in time, wider use of 1080p60/50 video may be challenge enough.

1 upvote
DiscreteCosine
By DiscreteCosine (Apr 14, 2012)

4k uncompressed video would indeed require very fast and large drives. Depending on the type of compression, however, it can be quite easy to handle. REDCODE files are typically around 40 MB/s, which any modern SATA drive can handle.

I agree the 4k resolution is generally wasted (with most screens and projectors being HD or, at most, 2K), but a 4k sensor will often produce better 2k images than a native 2k sensor (even with good de-Bayering), so buying a "4k capable" camera to shoot 2k can be a good idea.

As to raw vs. sRGB, the benefits are absolutely obvious to anyone working in cinema / broadcast. I've seen several hours of footage that would have otherwise been lost saved in post thanks to the extra range of raw files.

Obviously, for home videos or live broadcasts it's kind of wasted.

0 upvotes
max nardi
By max nardi (Apr 14, 2012)

C300/500 are aimed at different market than 1d C.
The former are to indie and hollywood productions, the last to the new photo-video reporter that is where the reporter profession is going.
In effect they are developped with ergonomics that fit these different users.

m2c

0 upvotes
Petka
By Petka (Apr 14, 2012)

1D C is not aimed at photojournalists, they are the last to need 4K. How are you going to send 4K files form Afganistan, and who is going to use them and for what? Simply put this camera is just a convenient and available housing for a 4K capable sensor and electronics. The buyer will provide the ancillaries and lenses for movie productions. Buyers will be production houses/rental outfits/rich hobbyists.

0 upvotes
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (Apr 22, 2012)

Post workstations top out around $4k without adding a bunch of fluff that doesn't really boost performance. Indie productions and pro productions are going to hit the same wall for 4k before either of them is really squeezed for money.

0 upvotes
vFunct
By vFunct (Apr 13, 2012)

Pretty sure Nikon will have something like this over the next few years... they DID invent dSLR video (Nikon D90) after all.

Who knows, maybe they'll have it before the C500 comes out.

One thing these camera needs is power zoom. This would be immensely useful for ENG cameramen, so you don't need a separate focus puller.

1 upvote
Superka
By Superka (Apr 13, 2012)

Nikon didn''t invent DSLR. And Nikon won''t have something like this Cinema Camera. Nikon don''t have sensor production.
So, Sony will have smth like this. F65 is already cool, but somewhat big and heave.

0 upvotes
Arkanthos
By Arkanthos (Apr 13, 2012)

"they DID invent dSLR video " >> "Nikon didn''t invent DSLR"

way to quote crop ;). Trouble reading the comment leads me to believe you had trouble reading the article ;)

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

Canon's brain trust is out in force.

Canon will not be able to dump any more of these C500s on us than they are able to dump their C300s on us.

If they will have a C500, then why make a separate announcement about a 1D C?

If they will have a 1D C, then why make a separate announcement about a C500?

Not only Canon's left hand does not seem to know what its right hand is doing -- it seems to me that somebody had chopped off both of their hands. They seem to be in the camera announcement business... instead of the serious camera business.

0 upvotes
MRNICK07
By MRNICK07 (May 16, 2012)

Francis, Your so funny! Please keep posting! Your comments are humorous! :)

0 upvotes
siggo
By siggo (Apr 13, 2012)

bfds89gd looks like spam....get off this site!

1 upvote
BJL
By BJL (Apr 13, 2012)

Yep.
Mouse over the LIKE box to get the option to "Flag as inappropriate".
The admins do take these things down when notified.

0 upvotes
makofoto
By makofoto (Apr 13, 2012)

@Edmond ... there are relatively few movies made compared to the many many music videos, promos, industrials, informationals, web videos, etc. etc ... that is the market for this type of product

1 upvote
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, those are the markets for such cameras; but not for big movies.

The benefit of such cameras is reducing the production costs.

But I'm doubt if it will success in the rental market.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 13, 2012)

No way to consider this camera for heavy invested movie productions.

Will you take the risk by not using Arri or Panavision?

0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 13, 2012)

Canon is rapidly making inroads into the cinema camera market, much more so than most expected based on the technical specs of the C300. It is difficult to predict how the studios will react, but they embraced RED more quickly than expected (and RED was a far more unknown quantity).

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 13, 2012)

I think both Canon and RED can serve the low-budget productions; the market is still here.
But not for high-budget productions.

0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 13, 2012)

Okay, now I am back to being confused again after reading your other response.

EDIT: Okay, I see you posted this before you posted "There is no doubt that RED is doing a good business recently.
What I'm talking is the mainstream of the movie productions are still in favor of Arri and Panavision."

So in that context I am inferring that your above quote means "high-budget productions but not necessarily the highest budget productions" given the list of blockbusters shooting with RED I mentioned below. Sorry to read your posts out of order. :)

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 13, 2012)

Incidentally, there are things about the Alexa, Panavision and RED offerings that would make each the most attractive choice for me on particular projects. In the case of Panavision, the top of that list would be their 300x optical zoom for 2/3 inch cameras.

Also, hope you don't feel singled out - you are just addressing some of the more interesting points so far, so I keep feeling compelled to respond to your observations. Hopefully you feel flattered, not frustrated. :)

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 13, 2012)

Frankly speaking, what I'm most interested in Panavision and Arri are still their film cameras. Of course, up to now, there is no company other than Arri and Panavision can provide a full range of systems for movie productions like what they are now offering.
Unfortunately, film will eventually fade out, both Arri and Panavision are not in 4K now (may be they will upgrade their 2K cameras to 4K soon). The only choice available today is RED and SONY, but RED is still not in the high-end market... So the only choice is SONY F65. I think why do people like F65 so much is due to SONY's cooperation with Panavision in the past, and a lot of their camera design was influenced by the Panavision systems.

0 upvotes
kanefsky
By kanefsky (Apr 13, 2012)

@Edmond,

The Hobbit is being shot on Red and has a $500M budget.

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 13, 2012)

Good luck

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

"Canon is rapidly making inroads into the cinema camera market"

Pasadena, thank you! You cracked me up with this classic quip, really you did.

The only "inroad" Canon is making is into the poor-house. Nobody serious will be using their "EOS cinema" cameras for anything cinematic and/or serious, I predict.

0 upvotes
TomTyrell
By TomTyrell (Apr 13, 2012)

Actually, look how many blockbusters are produced on RED. That gear is rather high-end. I wouldn't agree that F65 stands a better chance.
Anyway, HD is a DV format of today, not tomorrow. Even iPad 3 has higher resolution than HD. It will take a couple of years before 4k becomes a standard. Canon will definitely reduce the price of 4k dlsr as for now it's not a competitor for Scarlet or Epic.

0 upvotes
DiscreteCosine
By DiscreteCosine (Apr 14, 2012)

Arri? Panavision? Anyone pushing the edge is far more likely to be using Silicon Imaging or even Red. The real strength of Arri and Panavision is in the accessories and lenses, and there are adapters to use them on other cameras. Their sensors and interfaces are nothing special.

0 upvotes
IcyVeins
By IcyVeins (Apr 13, 2012)

Typical Canon: WE'RE WORKING ON IT! ANY DAY NOW!

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

"Stay tuned, Canon Lovers Worldwide. Will be making 4 or 5 more announcements on it -- before the announcements about when/if the actually finished camera will be shipping (if/when)."

Happy shooting, everyone!

0 upvotes
zxaar
By zxaar (Apr 12, 2012)

Its funny no hypocrite is saying anything about buttons on this thing now. Few days ago when sony released something I could read page full of comments about how it had so many buttons.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

I am not sure which camera is uglier, Sony NEX-FS100/700 or Canon EOS C300/500. But the Sony-cams definitely have much more (and smaller) buttons on them.

0 upvotes
plasnu
By plasnu (Apr 12, 2012)

This is something that Nikon has to follow.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 12, 2012)

Nikon has never made a dedicated video camera, why would they start now? Nikon is not trying to compete with the C300 or the C500, not should they. They make great still cameras that are video capable.

1 upvote
plasnu
By plasnu (Apr 13, 2012)

In near future, there will be no difference between video and still camera. If someone will make a full frame 24fps / 36MP camera, will you call it a still or a video?

Nikon is not that stupid to think the video is an additional feature of a still camera.

2 upvotes
ProtoPhoto
By ProtoPhoto (Apr 13, 2012)

You're missing the point, Nikon is a nobody in pro video, hoping to get their toe in the door. The C500 is intended to compete with higher end Arri, RED and Sony cameras, i.e. the real pro competition.

It's almost funny, all the trashing that was going on when people were doing D800 / 5Dm3 comparisons, not realizing that Canon had new cameras on the way that play the game on a whole different level than Nikon (for video).

The Nikon / Canon as equals above everyone else paradigm only applies to stills...

Comment edited 39 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
commiebiker
By commiebiker (Apr 13, 2012)

10 years ago Red was a nobody in video too, now they are a leader. Nikon could get into it if they really wanted to

0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 13, 2012)

RED is a leader? What kind of leader?

If you have sufficient budget, will you use RED?
Everyone would tell you the right choice is Panavision, Arri or Sony.

Nikon is definitely not in the movie industry. Even though Canon (a Fortune 500 company) is so big and their lenses are so popular in the broadcasting industry, Canon is still difficult to enter the movie industry. Nikon is a small company when compared with Canon, how can Nikon go to the movie industry?? No way, at least for the next 10 years,

0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 13, 2012)

I must respectfully differ with you, Edmond Leung. 20th Century Fox, Warner Bros and even Sony all have blockbusters in production using RED cameras, and Disney already released one. Their cameras were picked (or at least employed) by Rob Marshall, Bryan Singer, James Cameron, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson and Marc Webb.

In the case of Sony, not only did they have the budget to use another camera, there were initial suggestions by the company to use something from the in-house line-up (at least based on comments Marc Webb made). He chose RED.

Am I saying that the RED cameras are better than the competitors you mentioned? No, I am not addressing that. But they have clearly become a viable choice when a quick survey of the upcoming blockbusters sees more films with them than without them, an area where we usually see the largest budgets.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 52 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Edmond Leung
By Edmond Leung (Apr 13, 2012)

There is no doubt that RED is doing a good business recently.
What I'm talking is the mainstream of the movie productions are still in favor of Arri and Panavision.

0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 13, 2012)

Ah, that is different. I misunderstood what you meant by "If you have sufficient budget, will you use RED? Everyone would tell you the right choice is Panavision, Arri or Sony." I got the impression that you meant the higher the budget, the more likely that those brands would be used, as opposed to that those brands were very popular in professional production.

In that case I have no disagreement - Arri and Panavision are very popular, especially in the TV market where RED cameras have had much lower market penetration.

0 upvotes
Superka
By Superka (Apr 13, 2012)

Nikon cannot make cinema cameras. Nikon don''t produce sensors. No need in Nikon cine cameras, because Sony makes them.
I wish Nikon resume the production of film scanners. That what Nikon is capable of.

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

"This is something that Nikon has to follow."

They better not -- if they have any brain. And compared to Canon and their announcements lately, they must have a lot of brain still left intact.

"The C500 is intended to compete with higher end Arri, RED and Sony cameras, i.e. the real pro competition."

Canon can "intend" all day anything they want, these "EOS Cinema" cameras of theirs are mere dwarfs compared to the makers of real digital film cameras you had just listed. I would also put Vision Research and their various model Phantoms into that latter group.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
huyzer
By huyzer (Apr 12, 2012)

What a monster! Wow. Hahahaha.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

She ain't the prettiest thing that ever walked down the pike, that's for sure.

0 upvotes
bradleyg5
By bradleyg5 (Apr 12, 2012)

What's chroma sub sampling?

0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 12, 2012)

It's a way of handling the colors where the resolution is higher for one of the three channels than for the other two. Typically this means a higher resolution for green than the other channels, with the other channels being interpolated to compensate.

DSLRs normally use the 4:2:0 method for their video recording.

2 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 12, 2012)

Just to clarify, 4:4:4 blows 4:2:0 away.

2 upvotes
briarwoodsman
By briarwoodsman (Apr 13, 2012)

PP is incorrect. Video is not RGB it is Luma + 2 chroma vectors. You can pitch chroma data with less effect than luma. So think of it as making the chroma pixels bigger than the luma pixels.
No chroma subsampling = 4:4:4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 13, 2012)

Briarwoodsman, I have no intention of getting into an argument about it nor do I consider myself an expert on it. I am only saying that the language of the link you present is not the only way of looking at the topic. Here is another one from a technical officer at Panavision that influenced the wording of my original post.
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of-pixels

Note the display image used in the presentation for 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 sampling.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
GURL
By GURL (Apr 13, 2012)

http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of-pixels

Everything I Always Wanted to Know About 4K (But Was Afraid to Ask). Thank you !

0 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Apr 12, 2012)

This kind of body makes a lot more sense for the intended market than the newly announced 1D C.

6 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree. It will be interesting to see how big a deal the absence of a RAW recording format will be for that market, or whether people opt for cameras with even high FPS options, but this certainly seems like the best Canon option by far. Unless someone strongly prefers the APS-H crop used for 4K on the 1D C to the Super35mm 4K on the C500.

0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 12, 2012)

Just to clarify - I meant to say how big a deal the absence of a RAW recording format on the Cinema 1D would be (as the C500 does record 4K to 4:4:4, even if that does not guarantee the flexibility that most associate with "RAW" recording).

Comment edited 49 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

Canon "EOS Cinema" C300 is a "slow seller," to put it mildly. So, why would anyone pay double for the C500 than for the C300 then?

EOS C300 in the $5,000 to $8,000 is probably salable in smaller quantities, and for the C500, the sweet spot might be around $15,000, tops.

AT the crazy prices Canon is fantasizing about lately, they are pricing themselves out of the marketplace.

0 upvotes
Pasadena Perspective
By Pasadena Perspective (Apr 14, 2012)

The C500 is trying to compete with the F65, Arri Alexa and RED Epic. In that market, the price speculated undercuts the competition - it is just plain a different market. Only the Cinema 1D suffers from odd pricing.

And despite the price, the C300 appears to be selling better than most of use would expect. Personally, I would be more likely to spend the money on a Scarlet, but to each their own.

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Apr 12, 2012)

I have no idea what this thing does but seeing it, along with Canon's other announcements makes me think that maybe the D800 won't put Canon out of business after all.

0 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Apr 12, 2012)

Even without the Video cams. Canon didn't put Nikon out of business when it had the far superior sensors from 2003-2008, and Nikon isn't going to kill Canon now. They pretty much trade 40 and 35% market share depending who has the current hot products.

1 upvote
thx1138
By thx1138 (Apr 13, 2012)

Like most people that buy a D800 will know what shadow DR even means or will care. It's 36MP enough said. And most 5D III buyers won't care about lack of shadow DR either, if they've even heard of it.

0 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow it has less buttons than the Sony NEX-FS700 and will be two times the price :)

1 upvote
DavidKennard
By DavidKennard (Apr 12, 2012)

Didn't you know? Price is inversely proportional to the amount of buttons. This is why Leicas are so expensive.

5 upvotes
Boerseuntjie
By Boerseuntjie (Apr 12, 2012)

Hahaha agreed

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 13, 2012)

Gentlemen who own Leicas have finer things to appreciate than oodles of buttons. The best can afford to hire "help" to do the driving, cooking, housework, childcare, camera operations, and other drudgery.

Really, though, the buttonss are there because the user can find them more easily than by navigating a labyrinthine screen menu. Usually there are a few tools or effects one uses all the time, and it's easier to remember where the button is an hit it fast, rather than peer into an LCD and wander through a menu you cannot even see in the sunlight.

0 upvotes
Sdaniella
By Sdaniella (Apr 12, 2012)

120p 4K...

2 upvotes
Ruy Penalva
By Ruy Penalva (Apr 12, 2012)

That seems a monster.

0 upvotes
KAllen
By KAllen (Apr 12, 2012)

Did I miss the expected price for this?

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Apr 12, 2012)

It's a product development announcement, not a launch - probably too early for a price to be worked-out.

0 upvotes
NorthwestF
By NorthwestF (Apr 12, 2012)

C300 costs $16000 ... This is one would be easily over $20,000

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Apr 13, 2012)

The ceiling would be low enough to make it attractive compared to a RED or film. The price of the camera, per se, is usually only a small consideration in the production cost. Thus Canon could set the price of the camer relatively high, if it offers economies of workflow that lower the overall costs.

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Apr 13, 2012)

Canon has now said it's aiming for around $30,000.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

At $15,000, maybe. First they gotta drop prices on their C300s from unsupportable $16,000 to somewhere in the $5,000 to $8,000 range. That way, the Canon EOS C300 will be in the company of its actual product competitors -- Panasonic AG-AF100/101, Sony NEX-FS100, and Sony NEX-FS700.

Consider also that Canon probably expects you to buy them in pairs -- one with the EF-mount and one with the PL-mount, see?

0 upvotes
Riprap
By Riprap (Apr 12, 2012)

This is an interesting product.

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (Apr 12, 2012)

Man the PL market is so crowded nowadays, any have any idea how well the Canon PLs have been selling?

0 upvotes
Henry M. Hertz
By Henry M. Hertz (Apr 12, 2012)

canon has a long breath.

they don´t have to make a profit.. they only have to make live miserable for the other player so they drop out.. then they can make enough money.

this is a long term strategy and i bet it will work well.

3 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm wondering how the Canon PLs compare to the ZeissPLs. Unless the Canon's are insanely great, I would think you'd rent a matched set of Zeiss PL or Cooke Pancros.

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Apr 13, 2012)

Real cinema lenses makers now, in alphabetical order:

Angenieux
Arri/Carl Zeiss
Cooke
Fujinon
Panavision

Canon is last to the table in this game, and good luck to them selling their lenses for about the same prices that the existing PL-mount cine-lens brethren sells theirs.

$50,000 for a 10x range zoom that weighs 12 kilograms? I just dunno....

0 upvotes
MediaDigitalVideo
By MediaDigitalVideo (Apr 12, 2012)

Finally one with HighSpeed recording. Price indication ? Supporting LANC ?

3 upvotes
MediaDigitalVideo
By MediaDigitalVideo (Apr 13, 2012)

Instruction manual (C300/C300PL) page 15, subject 19 talks about remote terminal for connecting commercially available remote controlers. What does that mean Canon ?

1 upvote
Total comments: 91