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Fujifilm developing modified sensor to fix X10 and X-S1 white orbs

By dpreview staff on Mar 12, 2012 at 20:00 GMT

Fujifilm has released a statement explaining the causes of the 'white disc' blooming issue that affects certain images shot with the X10 high-end compact. The statement says the company is developing a modified sensor in response to the problem, that can also affect the X-S1 premium superzoom. It encourages X10 and X-S1 owners experiencing 'the white disc phenomenon' to contact their local Fujifilm service center.


Press Release:

Statement Regarding the FUJIFILM X10 and X-S1 Digital Camera ‘Blooming’ Effect

The XS-1, which shares a sensor with the X10, is also affected.

March 12, 2012

The FUJIFILM X10 and X-S1 digital cameras were made available by Fujifilm late last year, and have been generally very well received by customers, who admire the excellent picture quality, manual zoom lens and viewfinder.

However, we did receive some inquiries concerning the so-called ‘white disc’ or ‘blooming’ occurrence, where exceptional highlights in the picture can appear as strongly delineated rounded shapes. This ‘blooming’ effect can occur with all digital cameras which use CMOS sensors, to varying degrees.  It can also occur with the X10 and X-S1 when shooting in certain conditions, e.g. cars with front lights shining in dark night scene. The X10 and X-S1 are fitted with a very advanced sensor, which gives excellent picture quality and low noise, but which does give a different ‘blooming’ effect from other cameras. 

Fujifilm has a long-standing history of delivering top quality products to the market. In response to our customers’ comments, we have worked hard to find an improvement to reduce the ‘blooming’ effect of the X10 and X-S1. Below are the actions we have undertaken.

  1. In February, we announced a firmware upgrade for the X10 (version 1.03) which does reduce the white disc occurrence specifically in EXR mode. It works by identifying scenes that are likely to get ‘white disc’ blooming.  When the camera recognizes such a scene, it automatically increases the ISO and optimizes DR (dynamic range).  As the ISO increases, the white discs are less evident. * New firmware for the X-S1 will be available from March 21, 2012.
  1. We will also develop a modified sensor, which will more universally resolve the ‘white disc’ blooming effect in all modes. We are working hard to make this new sensor available from late May 2012.

We encourage any customer with an X10 and X-S1 who has experienced the ‘white disc’ phenomenon to call their local authorized Fujifilm service centre.

Fujifilm is committed to delivering the highest quality products to the photographic community, and is happy to provide this improvement. 

Comments

Total comments: 289
123
Adhib97
By Adhib97 (Mar 26, 2012)

So purely becasue of this problem, your not even going going to bother with a review? I'VE BEEN WAITING AGES FOR A F***ING REVIEW, YET YOUR NOT EVEN GOING TO ATTEMPT JUST BECASUE OF THIS! DPREVIEW YOU ARE A BIG JOKE!

2 upvotes
Jerome Kwok
By Jerome Kwok (Mar 27, 2012)

I think they are too busy with 5D-III and X-Pro1. There are plenty of reviews of X-S1 out there anyway.

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Apr 26, 2012)

Purely because the camera could change significantly, we've put the review on hold until we have one that represents the product that people will be able to buy.

Reviewing a camera that we know will be modified would be a massive waste of time.

0 upvotes
DotCom Editor
By DotCom Editor (Apr 26, 2012)

"your not even going going to bother with a review? ... YET YOUR NOT EVEN GOING TO ATTEMPT..."

Of course, this poster means "you're not even..." and "YET, YOU'RE NOT..."

0 upvotes
Realfi
By Realfi (Mar 26, 2012)

Any word on when Fuji expect to ship cameras with the new sensor or will they simply be too flat-out replacing those in cameras already in the hands of owners for the foreseeable future?

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Raidman
By Raidman (Mar 23, 2012)

a

0 upvotes
Jops Oriol
By Jops Oriol (Mar 21, 2012)

New firmware for xs1 available now in Spain.
http://www.myfinepix.es/es/news/447000

0 upvotes
jimread
By jimread (Mar 19, 2012)

Emailed Fuji UK on Saturday, phoned them this morning, Monday, to confirm my request for sensor replacement. Very good response from the person I spoke to and an immediate confirmation email that my sensor will be replaced.

It's a great camera and I do hope this will fix the 'orb' problem.

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Franks38
By Franks38 (Mar 16, 2012)

Fuji Service Center in Chandler, AZ does NOT accept the X10 for sensor upgrade...

I called the Fuji Service Center in AZ as it is the closest to me in Eugene, OR...CIS center called back to say they were NOT authorized to deal with X10 cameras so they could not help with the reported Fuji recommendation to contact their Service Centers for X10 upgrades or repairs. The nice woman said she had no idea where I might get such service beyond sending the camera back to Fuji. So much for Fuji upgrade/repair plans....Frank-Eugene, OR

0 upvotes
studium4sk
By studium4sk (Mar 16, 2012)

Just received an answer to my replacement request.
Fuji Germany will collect my camera when the new sensor is available by end of may.
Collecting from current direction, checking, sensor replacement and delivery will be for free.
Great job so far.

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Mar 16, 2012)

Das ist doch klar. Fuji Service funktioniert einwandfrei in Deutschland
That is clear. Fuji service works fine in Germany

FUJI X10:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/karlwmueller/

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
iflash
By iflash (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes, but the Germans do technology right - like no one else in the world. What about the poor sods who live outside Germany, where an attitude of, 'she'll be right mate,' exists. What has Fuji got to say about the rest of the world?

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
lajka
By lajka (Mar 15, 2012)

Everybody`s babbling about the sensor technology and Fujis let downs and the duds bought and so on. The truth is, ask Alex Jones, that it is an invasion of WHITE ORBS under way and every sane mind would see it. In case you don`t know what White ORBS are, I`ll reveal that much, that it`s a kind of zombie syndrom inflicted by the NEW WORLD ORDERs ILLUMINATI executives on the gullible population of slave consumers. The most common signes are the eyeballs white orbing when, for example the customer realizes that his newly bought 1K$ cameras sensor´s blooming while his bloom tree`s not. . It`s a worldwide conspiration connocted on mt. FUJI and relayed throught mt.Olympus to the mt.McKidding. Get rid of the WHITE ORBS. Put the film back on your eyes and start to SEE!

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Mar 16, 2012)

be cool - I have about 4000 photos with the X10
1% Orbs

Comment edited 14 seconds after posting
1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 16, 2012)

Only because your subjects are not orb prone. My orb rate on building interiors, TV studio shots, concert shots, and night shots is closer to one in 30. And we haven't even got into summer reflections off water yet.

I'd rather my night shots look like this: http://g1.img-dpreview.com/E0BCF63BB54C4AE28C867A231FB2962B.jpg

Than this: http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/fuji/x10-assets/nightshot.jpg

If you never shot nudes, a camera that makes breasts look like bagels would be fine. It's a screwed up sensor all the same.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
camerashopminion
By camerashopminion (Mar 16, 2012)

The X10 orb issue has been rumbling on for some time, most of the hysteria is unjustified. i have photographed at night in moscow a recent rammstein concert and numerous other occasions with the x10, and not an orb to be seen! the colour, sharpness are all first class, and it is a great little camera. i now have an x100 in addition, and my wife has started using the x10, she is a painter and requires a high quality camera, the x10 is such a thing. please lets not confuse the issue, a camera is a tool and it is the job of the photorapher to get the best out of the machine, one small flaw does not a bad camera make!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 16, 2012)

If Fuji thought it was unjustified they would not be replacing the sensors at such great expense. And the camera RRP would not have dropped by 25% in most places in just five months.

5 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 16, 2012)

Hey Crash . The XZ-1 would trounce the X10 in low light . It has a f/1.8 lens . I think you selectively forget other cameras .

1 upvote
Portuense
By Portuense (Mar 16, 2012)

f/1.8 and no orbs.

1 upvote
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 16, 2012)

Yep , thats two things to consider now Crash.

1 upvote
camerashopminion
By camerashopminion (Mar 16, 2012)

it is common practice for camera's to become cheaper several months after launch. f 1.8 to f2 is not a great advancement.

0 upvotes
Kim Letkeman
By Kim Letkeman (Mar 17, 2012)

Well crash, your comment ...

"In many low light cases no other small camera is capable of getting the shot, orbs or not."

... has been repeated by you on the FTF many times by now. Of course, most of them were under your max metz identity.

For reasons known only to you, you refuse to come to grips with the fact that "proof by repeated assertion" does not actually constitute proof.

There are many small cameras that can replicate any shot that the X10 can. And they can *all* do it in the ORB-producing shooting conditions that would render the X10 futile.

That Fuji has caved in and developed a second generation sensor for the camera should convince anyone that the problem is not a myth.

1 upvote
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 17, 2012)

Hooray for sanity !! have a good weekend Kim !!

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 17, 2012)

"it is common practice for camera's to become cheaper several months after launch" Ha ha ha. After YEARS on the market, the Canon 5D MkII has NOT dropped its price by 25% or more.

Just check any price tracking site. The X10 has plummeted. Try selling it if you don't believe me.

Comment edited 59 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
camerashopminion
By camerashopminion (Mar 17, 2012)

Have personally sold over 10 units on this camera, not a single complaint.

0 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 17, 2012)

They probably dont shoot scenes that produce orbs , but remember ALL X10's are the same and affected. If they were not Fuji would not be changing the sensors. You have just been lucky .....so far.

2 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Mar 20, 2012)

@Camerashopminion,

You are probably one of those sleazy second hand car salesman type and lied to all those 10 X10 customers that you sold to...What? No! Right, you told them and warn them about the X10 famous ORBS, I seriously doubted it. Liar, scumbag salesman.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 56 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Nicholas4AA
By Nicholas4AA (Mar 15, 2012)

I hope that Fuji will also address the problem of the live feed freezing when trying to focus on a moving subject. I read a review which mentioned that the X-S1 suffers from this too. I bought a fuji XS30 but returned it, as that problem was so bad, which was unfortunate as it was otherwise a very good bridge camera

0 upvotes
wongcy0225
By wongcy0225 (Mar 15, 2012)

I live in Hong Kong, and I have phoned Fuji local service center yesterday. Their staff told me that they didn't hear this announcement from headquarter, so they can not provide the exchange service for me. Anyone give me idea? What should I do? Should I send the email to Japan Fuji?
It's make me very frustrated, "We encourage any customer with an X10 and X-S1 who has experienced the ‘white disc’ phenomenon to call their local authorized Fujifilm service centre." In fact, I have already called the local service center, and they did't give me an answer..

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Dabbler
By Dabbler (Mar 15, 2012)

I think you'll have to wait till May, I doubt the service centers can do anything about it until the updated sensors are ready.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 15, 2012)

I've had the same answer from Fuji Hong Kong, which seems to be another company that distributes Fuji. I've asked them to keep me informed. I guess all we can do is wait, although bugging Japan can't do any harm.

1 upvote
Jerome Kwok
By Jerome Kwok (Mar 18, 2012)

I think the distributor is
富士攝影器材有限公司
The parent company is
中港照相影器材集團有限公司 (Stock Code: 1123)

0 upvotes
hammerheadfistpunch
By hammerheadfistpunch (Mar 15, 2012)

I see this as a triumph of community pressure and corperate compliance to fix the actual problem. A lesser company would have said "it is what is it is." or worse, nothing at all. Also, even great companies would have done nothing without the community driving this forward. Good job community for speaking, and good job Fuji for listening.

2 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm certain that all sides commenting on this situation in this forum can agree on one thing:

We hope Fuji will follow thru and remedy the sensor problem.
Promptly, without hassle, as soon as the new "improved" "modified" sensor (one that does fix the prob) is ready (Fuji says late May) replace it FREE for anyone desiring it to be replaced, or offer a refund for any customer who wishes that.

If not for all the attention drawn to this issue on the internet, and forums like this, it seems doubtful Fuji would've gotten it's ass er, I mean ACT in gear this soon. Even when they did, at first, it was the bandaid approach -- dismissal, denial, mischaracterization, then a firmware "fix", that they had to know did NOT fix what they had first said didn't exist at all.

It is disturbing though, (and all sides note this) that there is still no simple UNIFIED international customer response by Fuji on this. It varies from perfect, to "what ?", to "we'll get back to you when we know something".

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Mar 15, 2012)

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman. --Bill Clinton

"This ‘blooming’ effect can occur with ALL digital cameras which use CMOS sensors . . ." ---Fujifilm

5 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Mar 15, 2012)

The matter of fact is: Fuji are still getting away in certain degree...My buddy from Hong Kong who actually work for one of the biggest electronic distributor told me there is no mentioning in any press or memo about the exchange or swap sensor for X10 user. They don't even mention anything about the faulty sensor at all, so I came to conclusion:

1). Either all these non-English speaking Fuji Customers are all bunch of SUCKERS.

or 2). Like many electronic products from Japan when they supply to their domestic market or most Asian market, those products usually come with better packages, options, incentives and better quality,etc. Then we are all SUCKERS , then.

and Fuji are still advertising how amazing the X10 are in many non-English speaking countries.

Look at the upper banner on this most popular Camera site in Hong Kong/ Taiwan and China.

http://www.dcfever.com/index.php

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 15, 2012)

And Fuji Hong Kong say they have heard nothing about it at all. I got the email yesterday.

And yes, my X10 was bought from DCFever.

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 15, 2012)

Maybe the most amusing thing in all this is how those who attacked us "orb-crusaders" and "anti-Fuji conspirators", and said orbs were not such a big deal, have now become the first to put their names on the list for the sensor replacement.

7 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Mar 15, 2012)

Ha...Ha...!

Because there are many hypocrites out in this world...and I hate them all...

2 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Mar 15, 2012)

Thank you for your reports from the Asian Front,
Brother "orb-crusaders" Jmmg and GaryJP !

A most salient point made by "ebbo" below --
Gone indeed, are the pre-internet instant international exchange and dialogue about matters exactly like this days,
when they might've pulled off this shell game response.

Ironic, that a company on the cutting edge of modern tech, should be so NAIVELY arrogant and dismissive and up in the face of its customers and the rest of us as they haughtily expect that they can SAVE THEIR OWN FACE and $$$ by outdated lame denial tactics-- and by THAT very action, indeed LOSE THE VERY FACE THEY ARE TRYING SO DESPERATELY TO SAVE.

Their coldly corporate reaction and behavior in all this is foolish, even in light of just their own almighty bottom line:

Their ridiculous denials and feeble euphemistic characterizations of the simple undeniable problem, are just amusingly transparent to any astute and tech savvy individual, precisely their target for future sales.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
ebbo
By ebbo (Mar 14, 2012)

You may not like Fuji bashing but it’s got Fuji really moving on this sensor issue.

In pre internet days Fuji or any other manufacturer would have gotten away with an issue like this almost completely, no magazine carrying Fuji advertising would have mentioned it or shown it. The only place it might get a mention is at photo clubs, meanwhile, Joe public would blithely carry on. All power to the internet I say and manufactures be aware…

5 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 15, 2012)

Yeah its a bit scooby doo really !!

Can see Fuji as old Mr Wilson " I would of gotten away with it to , if it were'nt for you meddlin kids" lol

5 upvotes
abacab1975
By abacab1975 (Mar 14, 2012)

Well said Rusticus and Andywhoa.

I'm more than happy with Fuji's response on this issue. After phoning the UK Service Centre this afternoon, my details have been taken and have been informed that Freepost packaging will be sent out to me after the Service Centre have received the new sensors (sometime in May).

I think some may be upset by the "wording" of the announcement and still see speculation on various websites about what action Fujifilm will take. I'd suggest anyone not happy with the above statement need only phone their own Service Centre and find out, see no point in going on and on and on when you have been told what to do.

My viewfinder covering is also loose, been that way since purchase last December and will now take this opportunity to get this rectified too, will kill two birds with one stone. I have just been told to note this when sending it in and this will be looked at too.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 15, 2012)

Depends where you are. Fuji Hong Kong do not have a clue what's going on, as they emailed me yesterday. To me a good manufacturer does not (a) say issues are within spec (b) send out a marketing manager to scoff at users' concerns, and (c) still avoid an honest answer in its capitulating press statement. No all CMOS cameras transparently do NOT have this problem. Not even other EXR sensors do.

I'll send mine in for a fix if Fuji Hong Kong ever get their thumb out of their posterior, but after that I'm done with Fuji.

5 upvotes
abacab1975
By abacab1975 (Mar 15, 2012)

I did an extreme test yesterday, took a photo looking directly in a torch with a Canon Ixus and the X10, the Canon took the photo, nice and sharp with the light haze. The X10 OMG sharp photo but the haze was replaced by a white blob with what looked like a thin black line around it. I want to use the camera at gigs with lights so definitely want the fix. Fuji seems to think its just Europe and the US where the orb phenomenon happens I think they will roll out the fix worldwide however

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Mar 14, 2012)

sorry I do not understand the fuss
Fuji said they replace the sensor in the X10 from the end of May 2012
where is the problem?

Here again what else is going on, pure FUJI Bashing

The new sensor is now time not from the sky

1 upvote
andywhoa
By andywhoa (Mar 14, 2012)

It seems to me that Fuji is offering to replace the sensor in all defective X10s at a huge financial cost to themselves. How anyone is still accusing Fuji of ignoring the issue is beyond me. These deranged people are akin to the "birthers" in America.

1 upvote
Scann3r
By Scann3r (Mar 14, 2012)

In Sweden they said: (Taken for a Swedish forum)

Hello!
Thanks for your email regarding your Fujifilm X10.
We have registered your details, once we have received directives from Fujifilm Japan, we will get back to you with further information how we can solve the problem with your camera.
Each camera will be tested individually by Fujifilm's technologies and an assessment of the possible sensor replacement will at the earliest to occur at the end of May.
We will return with further information.

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Mar 14, 2012)

Ha-ha-ha-ha.... It's the old "we against them" syndrome. They will INDIVIDUALLY TEST each camera??? To see which one has the junk sensor.... and which one has the non-junk sensor? And how long will his take? And what then -- they will rip your camera apart and replace the sensor?

Forget it. Time to wait the arrival of the X20 and X-S2.... hopefully, those ones will be already fixed.

0 upvotes
Webzilla
By Webzilla (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Francis, I'm getting the impression that you dont even have an X10 camera. What Fuji will do with the 'orbs problem' only the future can tell. But considering the service they gave in the past and the goals they are aiming now, I can hardly imagine that they will ignore the problem. We'll see.

1 upvote
Serenity Now
By Serenity Now (Mar 19, 2012)

There once was an author named Carver
Whose writings were driven by anger
He put in the boot
Now his argument's mute
For the crowd have moved on in great number

1 upvote
abacab1975
By abacab1975 (Mar 14, 2012)

Spoke to UK Service Centre at 1:30pm, much the same experience as other posters here. Details taken and packaging will be sent out when the service centre receive new sensors and work will be carried out on a first come first served basis. My name has been added to list and I'm happy with the action Fuji have taken !

3 upvotes
Curlynob
By Curlynob (Mar 14, 2012)

I just spoke to the UK Service Centre - really nice helpful people. They register your details and will apparently send you a free-post box when the new sensors are ready. The sensor will be upgraded and the camera returned, all free of charge. As a Fuji customer since a c1980 STX-1, I'm happy.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Mar 14, 2012)

If it sounds too good to be true -- it usually is because it isn't going to be all true. What has happened overnight, did Fujifilm suddenly got blindly religious?

0 upvotes
Yohanes Sondang Kunto
By Yohanes Sondang Kunto (Mar 14, 2012)

I bought Fuji X10 in Ireland and currently living in Indonesia. Would Fuji honor International Warranty by replacing Fuji X10 sensor which are bought from the outside of the country? In my case Fuji X10 bought in Ireland with International Warranty but would Fuji Indonesia replaced the sensor when it is available since my X10 is bought in other country?
It is not my fault to cause the orbs that I should pay cost to send it back to Ireland. However, I really enjoy shooting at ISO 3200 DR 400 in dark scene and really hard to see the orbs annoying.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Ithackermike
By Ithackermike (Mar 15, 2012)

I don't think this is a "does your warranty in the country of purchase cover your problem" type of issue. It's a recall type of event. So i would expect if you have the camera, you get the sensor swap.

0 upvotes
toughluck
By toughluck (Mar 14, 2012)

> We encourage any customer with an X10 and X-S1 who
> has experienced the ‘white disc’ phenomenon to call their
> local authorized Fujifilm service centre.
Which will then tell them to basically sod off. Nobody promised it will be done for free, nobody said it will even be done. Just call your service centre -- the best they can do is give you a quote.

I do have to congratulate Fujifilm on finding a brilliant way to shrug off questions directed to their HQ, and shoving the whole burden onto the service centres.

It reminds me of the faulty solders defect on Sony 5 megapixel 2/3" sensors (and others, but mostly those) which were discovered sometime around 2006. Sony went out of their way to ensure everyone that the sensors will be replaced for free. And not only in Sony cameras, but in all manufacturers' cameras that used the sensors, regardless of warranty status.
Will Fujifilm step up to the plate?

4 upvotes
Ace Disgrace
By Ace Disgrace (Mar 14, 2012)

If they will replace the sensor without any effect on its IQ - im definitely buying the X10-?. maybe close to the issues Canons G11 & G12 [The reason it was release at an earlier time] - But Fujifilm's dilemma is worst in their current situation. They know that a lot of eyes are on them, they will not try to sacrifice the brand, so im assuming they will resolve this issue very seriously.

Just want to congratulate some of the X10 users, its been a while now... that nobody took an action about the orb issues. Im happy for you guys. Tells us what you think when the new sensor arrive.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Mar 14, 2012)

Lot of these same X10 owners will tell you EVEN TODAY that the whole "white orb" issues has been an orchestrated anti-Fujifilm hoax.

0 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Mar 14, 2012)

This release statement is tuned by the Fuji Legal Swat Team to allow as much escape and wiggle room as possible for any and all liability issues,
and importantly in their culture to SAVE FACE.

Sounding more like a normal announcement of a new sensor advance than any answer to foisting a known-to-be-defective sensor, note it does not really make any PRECISE commitment.
They talk not of a fix, but of "being happy to provide this improvement".
Really, Fuji, REEAALLY ?!

A principle of consumer law is what a buyer can reasonably expect as to the performance of a device.
Certainly, when buying a CAMERA, a consumer can reasonably expect it to be able to take pictures, THAT VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE CAMERA EVER MADE COULD TAKE !

As someone with a close friend with an X10, with the new "Orb Feature", I hope that Fuji will do the right thing and, without further finagling of the sensor bagel, replace them FREE, if only for their reputation and sales.
We will all see what they do, and take note

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
9 upvotes
skyfotos
By skyfotos (Mar 14, 2012)

I am sure that you are an expert on consumer law but you don't seem to know much about cameras and photography.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 14, 2012)

He certainly knows more than most of the orb minimisers.

6 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you, GaryJP,

And the biggest "orb minimizer" is Fuji itself.
Note that they conspicuously omit the word "complaint", and only use the legaleez of "customer COMMENTS".

Problem, what problem ??
Right, customers with the "white orb OCCURANCE", and the "blooming EFFECT", aren't complaining about it, they've just been matter of factly "commenting" on it.

I'm sure the other manufacturers are all scrambling to engineer their own "Blooming Effects",
which will no doubt be the hottest new feature at PHOTOKINA 2012 !

There is no admission, or apology, only dismissal, and the literally laughably absurd statement that, begins, quote:
"This ‘blooming’ effect can occur with ALL digital cameras which use CMOS sensors . . ."
Except for the minor fact, that it doesn't !

Fuji, you have a long well-deserved rep for excellence, just directly admit that the sensor is defective, apologize to loyal customers and EXPLICITLY state that you will replace them free, or give a refund. Simple.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
Hen3ry
By Hen3ry (Mar 14, 2012)

Quoth the raven. Lucky they’ve got you, Ben, to tell them how to behave. Of course they had it legaled; particularly in the litigious US market, they would be crazy not to.

0 upvotes
Ben Raven
By Ben Raven (Mar 14, 2012)

Hen3ry,
Yeah, well, it's a dirty job, and apparently somebody's gotta do it. I'll send them a bill for services.

Seriously tho, you are totally correct in pointing out that they have to take into consideration legal issues, particularly in the US.

But my point was, that with their rep and future sales on the line it's the wiser course to follow what "toughluck" described in his post above in referencing how Sony handled a similar situation in 2006. ADMIT it immediately, make it right all the way, and move on, AND in fact garner customer confidence and strengthened loyalty in the process!

Mistakes happen, in life and technology--and people know it.

So when it does happen, it's all about how a company handles it and respects their customers that counts -- and indeed counts on their Bottom Line too.

We've seen it all too often with Pols, caught in a scandal, not immediately addressing it honestly, and then the drip drip of the facts and damage, until finally . . well, you know.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Mar 14, 2012)

I love how people complain about the Chinese.... when here you have to deal with Japanese business moral -- or rather, the lack of it. Saving ye' almighty face -- even when it's already burned-off.

0 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Mar 15, 2012)

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman. --Bill Clinton

"This ‘blooming’ effect can occur with ALL digital cameras which use CMOS sensors . . ." ---Fujifilm

1 upvote
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Mar 13, 2012)

Ok, dpr, the intro says "Fujifilm has released a statement explaining the causes of the 'white disc' blooming issue.."

Nowhere does the statement explain the cause of this issue.

Sorry, guys, sometimes I believe what you say .. but then ..

4 upvotes
PJInTheUSA
By PJInTheUSA (Mar 13, 2012)

"The X10 and X-S1 are fitted with a very advanced sensor, which gives excellent picture quality and low noise, but which does give a different ‘blooming’ effect from other cameras."

It's blooming OneGuy, but not as how we know it.

1 upvote
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Mar 14, 2012)

It seems as if fuji is trying to neutralize the "I want my money back" reaction and dpr is crawling right into fuji pants with "Fujifilm has a long-standing history of delivering top quality products."

I am not taking dpr fuji reviews as professional reviews.

1 upvote
Josh152
By Josh152 (Mar 14, 2012)

@OneGuy

DPR has the same problem all pro review sites and publications have. Unless they give overall favorable reviews and give any negative aspects of the product or manufacture a healthy coating of sugar, manufactures will simply stop sending them products to review.

If DPR got a reputation for giving negative reviews and holding camera manufacture's feet to the fire on issues like this (aka telling the truth) ALL camera manufactures would stop sending cameras to them and that would be the end of DPR.

Plus DPR is owned by Amazon which of course wants to sell lot's of cameras.

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Mar 15, 2012)

There are plenty of layers in this in addition to dpr being a "good middleman." Some comment on other companies (Sony) responding swiftly to clean up their own mess and move on...

Well, my guess is that fuji is so deep in this shinola they do not have the option of cleaning up and moving on. There are at least two big ones on X100 (sticky aperture, AF almost nonexistent), plus the lens softness and poor resolution on most of their P&Ss. Pro1 highly suspect as a consequence.

Fuji should have taken a pic of their face and save it for the announcement when they have to beat a retreat back to Japan.

0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Mar 15, 2012)

Given the problems with both the X100 and the X10 I really don't' understand why anyone would buy a Fuji camera at this point. Especially one as expensive as the Pro 1. Fuji knows they have to down play the issue. Not only for sales but for legal reasons as they have been knowingly selling defective X10's and X100's to people.

0 upvotes
Michel Fury
By Michel Fury (Mar 13, 2012)

should not they test the sensor before selling the camera?:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/playthemagictorch/6773830898/

I switch to the Sony nex 5n (I hope this one works)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
robreed
By robreed (Mar 13, 2012)

I'd like to see dpreview post their review of the unit they have been testing.

Waiting for the best possible result doesn't seem to be the most unbiased way to do things. There's a long history of tech reviewers testing, and then reviewing whatever unit they receive. A review unit that comes DOA or with an obvious and unique defect might be an exception. But it seems pretty clear given these statements from Fuji that the 'orbs issue' is the rule not the exception to the rule.

There are quite a few owners with these cameras now and others still deciding whether to purchase or not (before the updated sensor).

Of course a follow up review would may be warranted once after the refresh, but I fail to see why an anticipated update invalidates a review of the currently shipping model.

6 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Mar 13, 2012)

Considering we have been waiting 2 months for the review and now how to wait another two months for the supposed fix I would think it would be a reasonable request that you have made.

5 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Mar 13, 2012)

This will turn into another iPhone4 story, which apparently started as a 'disaster' but turned out to be a megasuccess — only this time the company is Fuji.

4 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 14, 2012)

That kind of wishful thinking has not exactly worked well for Fuji so far.

5 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Mar 14, 2012)

If you know what is good for you, and hadn't already bought one -- best to stay away from the Fujifilm X10 and X-S1 cameras, hmmm?

Particularly the X-S1 -- an $800 bridge-cam with an almost totally useless AF in video mode that is already messed-up right out of the box because of its sensor. What were the Fuji corporate bean-counters really thinking with that one, I can't help wondering.

Let's hope that Fuji will have more success with the X20 and X-S2, hmmm? I am sure we'll see those by later on this year. The X10 and X-S1 model designations have been too soiled for any proper remedy to reverse the damage.

0 upvotes
MacDog44
By MacDog44 (Mar 13, 2012)

This is my first post to the forums although I have been reading dpreview for years.

I just spoke with Steve in the Fujifilm USA Service Center. I was informed that I would have to cover shipping expenses to send it in to have the sensor replaced. This is unacceptable. Has anyone had any success getting a refund. At this point that is all that will satisfy me.

Never had these issues with Nikon or Sony!

5 upvotes
PJInTheUSA
By PJInTheUSA (Mar 13, 2012)

I also spoke with Steve this morning and I got the impression that this type of thing just has not been decided yet. We will have to be patient and wait till May for those details. Seems reasonable to me.

0 upvotes
MacDog44
By MacDog44 (Mar 13, 2012)

It seems reasonable to have to wait for them to possibly get it right in May?

That logic seems ridiculous.

BTW. My brand new car's engine is broken. I will wait until May to get it fixed. I will just take the bus instead.

1 upvote
Josh152
By Josh152 (Mar 13, 2012)

Why would Fuji even make an announcement without finalizing the details? They should already know how they are going to handle the customers sending in their cameras. At the very least the should have told people like Steve exactly what to tell customers when they make such an inquiry.

This whole thing has just been one screw up after another on Fuji's part.

1 upvote
MacDog44
By MacDog44 (Mar 13, 2012)

Agreed!

0 upvotes
PJInTheUSA
By PJInTheUSA (Mar 13, 2012)

Oh MacDog44

Your camera does not work at all? It is completely broken akin to your car's engine being broken. Well if it is that busted send it back right away. Under warranty. Sorry - I thought you were referring to this very occasional blooming issue.

3 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Mar 13, 2012)

It is not Fujifilms fault you don't live next to the service center. They are providing the labor and parts, all you have to do is bring it on over (or ship it).

When I had my Canon fixed I had to pay shipping to the center and they shipped it back. It was also for a sensor defect.

And it is nothing like an engine blown. It would be more like your takes 2 times to start when it rains or something like that. It is not making the camera unusable, just really annoying in some situations.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
DStudio
By DStudio (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, my new car's engine makes a VERY annoying rattling noise. However, it only makes it when I cross over train tracks.

There's one railway crossing on the way to work. Now I have to change jobs.

4 upvotes
MacDog44
By MacDog44 (Mar 14, 2012)

@PJInTheUSA and tkbslc

It is Fujifilm's fault that they sold me a faulty camera. Bottom line is that it is not a truly functional camera. I can't take photos in certain conditions which make it something I do not want to carry. Who know when a orb will show up? A reflection of a car window, buliding, light, etc...

If you paid money to ship your camera back to Canon, you are a sucker and need to get some balls!

2 upvotes
PJInTheUSA
By PJInTheUSA (Mar 14, 2012)

> Who know when a orb will show up?

Calm down. It's a camera.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Mar 14, 2012)

Nobody really has much (if any) trust in what Fujifilm says any more. They fried themselves -- it was not their customers nor the competition that did them in. It was "Fujifilm versus Fujifilm" from day one with this sordid mess.

0 upvotes
morganb
By morganb (Mar 13, 2012)

that is a freaking GREAT response from FUJI!. still gotta see how the new sensor works but a full service response is about as good as it could possibly get.

7 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (Mar 13, 2012)

Agreed. And if it weren't for internet hysteria, most people probably wouldn't even know their X10 was defective. Fuji is going above and beyond.

4 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, making a camera that can shoot reflections on water, birthday candles, fireworks and any major city by night is going "above and beyond". I own the pile of junk and it regularly does not give me good results on the subjects I like to shoot, introducing a fault that NO OTHER camera on the market does. Some of you have very low expectations for consumer products.

3 upvotes
Jerome Kwok
By Jerome Kwok (Mar 13, 2012)

Are we going to see this statement on fuji's web site officially?

0 upvotes
qulu
By qulu (Mar 13, 2012)

You can find it here:
http://www.myfinepix.co.uk/news/statement-regarding-the-fujifilm-X10-and-X-S1-digital-camera-blooming-effect%20

5 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (Mar 13, 2012)

Finally! I appreciate that Fuji take the right step to correct the problem, it's sad to see a sexy camera like the X10 being plagued that way!

4 upvotes
nipa
By nipa (Mar 13, 2012)

I have one question to the dpreview staff: Is it possible to directly compare an advanced compact camera like the x10 to a budget SLR or ILC with an equivalent zoom lens? As you have noted, price differences are not that great...

0 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Mar 13, 2012)

Would really like to see Barney Britton (DPReview) to take a "pre-production" sample in (as with lots of other new cameras) to do a preview of the revised sensor at some point during early May. It would be a great DPReview followup on this, and I think Fujifilm kind of owe us that kind of openness. Please barney, could you arrange for that?

Comment edited 18 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
wonko 67
By wonko 67 (Mar 13, 2012)

+1

Even more: since it should be the case that the X10 with revised sensor will differ only in sensor performances form actual X10, it would be VERY helpful to make a review of the actual X10 and then just add a comparison section with the revised sensor (as soon as possible): this would be very helpful to people (like me) which are not so much concerned with orbs and have to take a decision about having it replaced or not.

For Barney (or, more generally, DPR staff): is it possible to know if you plan to review the X10? In the case, when?

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (Mar 13, 2012)

We've asked for a modified X10 and hope to receive on within the next few weeks.

13 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Mar 13, 2012)

Barney, you're a star! :-)

0 upvotes
wonko 67
By wonko 67 (Mar 13, 2012)

Barney, thank you for the info.

I will surely wait for the review before sending back the X10, to be sure the new sensor will not trade orbs for small light sensibility (or something else).

1 upvote
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 13, 2012)

Exactly what i'm waiting for.. good job.

0 upvotes
shutterbobby
By shutterbobby (Mar 13, 2012)

Great job Barney,that was fast....

0 upvotes
Waf3l
By Waf3l (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Barney... Looking forward to the review.

0 upvotes
Curlynob
By Curlynob (Mar 13, 2012)

I've owned an X10 for a little over 2 months. It's a beautiful camera that has revitalised my interest and enthusiasm for photography. I'm pleased that Fuji are going to fix the problem, and when the time comes, I will send my camera in to be upgraded. I only hope that Fuji don't throw the baby out with the bathwater...

8 upvotes
Les Lammers
By Les Lammers (Mar 14, 2012)

I like my X-10 too and look forward to getting the new sensor.

0 upvotes
Mac6768
By Mac6768 (Mar 13, 2012)

I have just telephoned Fuji Service Centre UK and spoke to a very polite gentleman regarding the new sensor in my X10. At the end of May (aprox) Fuji will send me a pre paid box to place my X10 in, take the box to my nearest Post Office, Fuji will replace the sensor and the camera will be sent back to me, No charge to me whatsoever. Thank you Fuji.

7 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 13, 2012)

I got exactly the same reply when i phoned half an hour ago.
Gives a little confidence .

4 upvotes
qulu
By qulu (Mar 13, 2012)

Same answer for me 5 mins ago.

4 upvotes
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Mar 13, 2012)

Let's give Fuji a chance to end May 2012

Then we see if the orbs are gone
and the IQ is still the same good?

To that extent - Wait

Also, I'm waiting to time to repair my broken X100 (Blende/screen-sticking by 2.0)
With Fuji takes a lot of patience

1 upvote
FeedMe
By FeedMe (Mar 13, 2012)

"However, we did receive some inquiries concerning the so-called ‘white disc’ or ‘blooming’ occurrence, where exceptional highlights in the picture can appear as strongly delineated rounded shapes. This ‘blooming’ effect can occur with all digital cameras which use CMOS sensors, to varying degrees. It can also occur with the X10 and X-S1 when shooting in certain conditions, e.g. cars with front lights shining in dark night scene. The X10 and X-S1 are fitted with a very advanced sensor, which gives excellent picture quality and low noise, but which does give a different ‘blooming’ effect from other cameras. "

Still talking down to your customers, eh?..

Why don't you stop treating them like burger-flipping morons and admit it's a buggered-up sensor design.

OK.. yes, it's technically accurate to say "different blooming effect" - but that's like saying a wrecked car is "differently drivable"

4 upvotes
PJInTheUSA
By PJInTheUSA (Mar 13, 2012)

> burger-flipping morons

How rude.

2 upvotes
ProfHankD
By ProfHankD (Mar 13, 2012)

Actually, I think this person just indirectly told you the new sensor will not eliminate the problem. This says all CMOS sensors bloom, but distinguishes this "very advanced sensor" as producing a "different 'blooming' effect from other cameras" -- I suspect due to the binning support. We'll see in May.

0 upvotes
FeedMe
By FeedMe (Mar 13, 2012)

>By PJInTheUSA (49 min ago)

>> burger-flipping morons

>How rude.

Yes - I apologise to the hamburgers..

1 upvote
Josh152
By Josh152 (Mar 13, 2012)

Even if the orbs are inherent in the way the sensor works their is no denying that the fact that the sensor handles highlights differently should have been explained to potential customers as soon as the camera was announced.

A potential customer has a reasonable expectation that the camera sensor will behave like all others currently on the market. If it doesn't Fuji has an obligation to say so up front. Fuji knew most people would see the blooming as a deal breaker so they kept quiet and hoped no one would notice.

They owe anyone who wants one a full refund not just a sensor replacement.

0 upvotes
mauro paillex
By mauro paillex (Mar 13, 2012)

No problems with white orbs.!! Iìm a photographer not a scientist!!

7 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Mar 13, 2012)

A photographer who doesn't care if his equipment functions properly it seems.

4 upvotes
morganb
By morganb (Mar 13, 2012)

the WDS varied a bit from camera to camera and if his shooting style didnt gear towards blown out lighting, he wouldnt have seen it.

i personally would have always been thinking about it but.

0 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Mar 13, 2012)

a short sighted one ?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
migus
By migus (Mar 13, 2012)

The expense of a sensor replacement in labor, logistics and parts makes a 'free' exchange unlikely. Most likely is the Sigma method: A point-based discount towards the purchase of a new camera.

1 upvote
iudex
By iudex (Mar 13, 2012)

I aloso think a sensor exchange is a serious and costly operation. Either Fuji will suffer considerable loss by changing it for free or do something like you wrote. Asking money for the exchange seems improbable because of big image loss.

0 upvotes
tinpusher
By tinpusher (Mar 13, 2012)

Fuji US might try that but
I don't think that they would get away with that in the EEC where consumer protection is stronger.
In the UK the product can be shown as not fit for purpose demonstrated by comparison with competitors and numerous technical reviews ( including this site )

0 upvotes
Ekidna
By Ekidna (Mar 13, 2012)

I've been looking at getting this camera for some time, but held off because of reading reports of this problem.
Here's my question: If the X10 is getting a new sensor on or about the end of May (I assume this will also be in new builds of the camera), how will you know if the one you buy has the new sensor or not...? Will there be an X10.1 sticker on the box or something....?

1 upvote
iudex
By iudex (Mar 13, 2012)

My guess is it will have a modified name, something like "DP1" and "DP1 Merrill".

0 upvotes
R Thornton
By R Thornton (Mar 13, 2012)

What about the other half of the world where there are no authorised Fujifilm service centres, and all of us who bought the camera on trips abroad?
Where do we send it or bring it?

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Mar 13, 2012)

Why don't you phone up Fujifilm and ask?

0 upvotes
KeeChiuPeng
By KeeChiuPeng (Mar 13, 2012)

Fujifilm shall replace the sensor of the affected models, irrespective in or out of warranty, just like automobile makers who issue worldwide vehicle recall to assure customers of the quality they put into their products.

1 upvote
Indulis Bernsteins
By Indulis Bernsteins (Apr 29, 2012)

WHERE did you get this misleading information? For a start, there is no offifical statement on any Fujifilm web site that I can find. Secondly, they are not issuing a recall (probably because it forces them to do what they should for all customers, and for no charge, i.e. not at their whim), just "offering" the sensor "upgrade". From the past experience, Fujifilm will continue to use PR and spin to avoid their responsibility to resolve the issue.

0 upvotes
Ace Disgrace
By Ace Disgrace (Mar 13, 2012)

I can see a new X10-? will be released this year, this is a fine camera and im glad i have waited for a few months before running to the store and buying it. Same goes with any other camera that will be release in the future. it is always smart to wait.

Fujifilm didn't mention about cost or if its free. the hardest part here is having to go through all the troubles because of a company mistake.

And for the people who always complain about dpreview's posts... all i can say is have respect for the staff that they go through testing and studying the products pro's and con's. In the 80's you wont get these reviews unless you buy a magazine. be thankful that you can get these news and reviews for free from this site.

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
iudex
By iudex (Mar 13, 2012)

The same applies for cars or other more sophisticated technology products. Especially cars should not be bought in the first year of production, when a lot of mistakes may emerge and this can be found out only in real world use.
But here on DPR I see a lot of eagerness to buy a new toy even before it reaches stores and people pre-order something nobody really held in hand. Strange for me. The X10 is maybe a warning for them not to be impatient like a child and let the camera be used in real world before they go for it.

2 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Mar 13, 2012)

Fuji Australia told me or I need to do is organise postage to them and they will take care of the rest.i.e. no charge.

2 upvotes
Saint Yves
By Saint Yves (Mar 13, 2012)

iudex
everyone should wait for somebody else to use it?
if that makes sense to you....

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Mar 13, 2012)

Don't worry, there will always be plenty of people who want to be an "early adopter". Let them be the ones to discover the flaws, not you.

1 upvote
iudex
By iudex (Mar 13, 2012)

Saint Yves: I just meant a little use of commom sense, not jumping into a pool without ever finding out if the water is in. ;-) Oui, that makes sense to me.

0 upvotes
jj74e
By jj74e (Mar 13, 2012)

why did they have to write such a long paragraph to say that they're developing a modified sensor and to contact your fujifilm service centre? skip all the bullcrap and info people already know, please.

in other news, i don't see why the new sensor would have decreased IQ. likely it will be a bit different, but i don't think fuji is dumb enough to fix a problem just to create another one.

but either way, people will probably be waiting for some guinea pig adventurers to report back first before sending in their camera themselves.

3 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Mar 13, 2012)

Nikon have just released a camera with a moire problem (D800E) and one without the moire problem (D800) - but that one has decreased sensor performance.

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Mar 13, 2012)

@CFynnn

The differences is that the D800E potential for moire is well known, predictable, and fully disclosed and explained by Nikon.

Oh and fyi the D800 and the D800E use the same sensor and therefore they both have the same sensor performance. The only difference is that in some situations the D800E MIGHT produce SLIGHTLY sharper fine details do to the modified low pass filter. It has nothing to do with the sensor. Read this for more understanding:

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/features01.htm

0 upvotes
Realfi
By Realfi (Mar 13, 2012)

I don't want to be the prophet of doom but I'm wondering whether there will be some performance trade-off to fix the problem. Not that I'm any expert on sensors but everything in this world seems to involve compromise!

2 upvotes
SergeyMS
By SergeyMS (Mar 13, 2012)

Thank you Fuji for clear information. I would not want to change sensor in my camera. Quality of picture of old one is excellent, and I am not sure that new one will be same. I took photos of lamps in night scenes and never seen something unacceptable.

3 upvotes
snake_b
By snake_b (Mar 13, 2012)

Then you deserve everything you get. WHEN you sell the cam, I hope you at least will do your legal and ethical duty to disclose this fact. Somehow, I'm guessing you won't and this is part of the problem with the sensor fix.

Comment edited 54 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
cronopiox
By cronopiox (Mar 13, 2012)

OMG what are all the troll photographers on dpreview going to do now that Fuji is finally fixing the problem???

2 upvotes
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