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41MP Nokia 808 smartphone hints at pixel-combining future for small sensor cameras

By dpreview staff on Feb 27, 2012 at 20:56 GMT

Nokia has made the startling announcement that it has created a 41MP smartphone, the Nokia 808 PureView. Interestingly, in most shooting modes the camera will output 3, 5MP or 8MP stills, rather than offering its full resolution - promising greater quality and offering some clever features. And this isn't a trade-show concept model, this is a product that will be offered to the public, though details of when and in which countries haven't been announced. What's interesting isn't so much the pixel count as how it's used, so we took a closer look.

The first thing to realize is that this isn't a standard 1/3.2" mobile phone sensor, it's an unusual and remarkably large 1/1.2" type (five times larger). In fact, it's almost three times the size of the sensors in most compact cameras. As a result, its photosites are the same size as those in most 8.2MP cameraphone but the 808 doesn't try to create an image of the same quality, 5 times bigger. Instead it oversamples the image and then combines pixels (using proprietary algorithms Nokia says optimize detail retention) down to a smaller size (though there is a special 'creative' shooting mode if you want the full resolution - 38MP at 4:3 aspect ratio, 36MP at 16:9).

Diagram showing the size of the Nokia 808 PureView's 1/1.2" sensor in comparison to those used in various compact cameras and mobile phones. A Four Thirds sensor is included for scale.

This pixel-combination means that noise (which occurs randomly) is averaged-out across multiple pixels (around 7-to-1 in the 5MP mode). The high native pixel count also means that it's possible to effectively 'zoom' by cropping into the center of the image and reducing the number of pixels you average together. Consequently the 808 can offer a roughly 2.8x 'zoom,' while maintaining 5MP output, despite having a fixed lens. The image quality will drop (since the noise is no longer being averaged out), but it does mean you get a roughly 28-78mm equivalent zoom, without the need to have moving lens elements, making the process fast and silent. It also means the lens' 15cm minimum focusing distance is maintained.

And, although the benefits of pixel-binning are lost as you magnify-in, because its photosites are the same size as contemporary 8MP phones, the resulting 5MP should offer the same pixel-level quality even at full magnification.

The same process allows 1080p video to be shot with a 4x cropping zoom.

Much like the Panasonic LX and GH cameras, the Nokia 808 uses an over-sized sensor to maximize the area used to offer different aspect-ratio images.

Despite the large sensor and comparatively large f/2.4 aperture, you won't get much control over depth of field (it'll be equivalent to setting an APS-C DSLR's kit lens to 18mm f/5.6). The depth-of-field control is reduced still further when magnified-in, because it doesn't gain the shallower depth of field that longer physical focal lengths usually bring. So, while it's an improvement over most phones, we wouldn't put much faith in the Nokia white paper's talk of bokeh.

The interesting thing for us, though, is not the Panasonic-esque multi-aspect-ratio use of the sensor, nor the astonishing pixel count, it's the idea of using that high pixel count to offer lower noise or non-interpolated digital zooming, while maintaining a constant image size. As Nokia's blog points out:

'5Mpix-6Mpix is more than enough for viewing images on PC, TV, online or smartphones. After all, how often do we print images bigger than even A4? [It] isn’t about shooting pictures the size of billboards! Instead, it’s about creating amazing pictures at normal, manageable sizes.'

And that's something that might be interesting to see in future compact cameras - models that will concentrate on output of a sensible size so that the user can easily get the benefit of them oversampling the scene.

Click here to read Nokia's blog post about the 808 PureView, which includes more detail about the phone's other features.

And click here to read the company's white-paper on the technology underpinning it.

Nokia 808 PureView lens and sensor specifications

  • Carl Zeiss Optics
  • Focal length: 8.02mm
  • 35mm equivalent focal length: 26mm, 16:9 | 28mm, 4:3
  • F-number: f/2.4
  • Focus range: 15cm – Infinity (throughout the zoom range)
  • Construction:
    • 5 elements, 1 group. All lens surfaces are aspherical
    • One high-index, low-dispersion glass mould lens
    • Mechanical shutter with neutral density filter
  • Optical format: 1/1.2”
  • Total number of pixels: 7728 x 5368
  • Pixel Size: 1.4um

Nokia's sample images:

ISO 800 - 5.0MP, 4:3
ISO 114 - 5.3MP, 16:9
ISO 58 - 38.4MP, 4:3 note the extremely close focus distance required to offer such shallow depth-of-field
18
I own it
4
I want it
1
I had it
Discuss in the forums

Comments

Total comments: 667
12345
ogl
By ogl (Feb 28, 2012)

Cry middle format and FF

0 upvotes
DioCanon
By DioCanon (Feb 28, 2012)

unfortunately is another symbian/meego OS,
if it was an Android or WP7 I would have considered it...

2 upvotes
N8Phreak
By N8Phreak (Feb 28, 2012)

both Android and WP7's camera stack cant support this high of a quality sensor, data throughput, PP and memory management. You're looking at 2 years before you see this kind of quality on either of those platforms. The ISO camera stack is so fragmented and locked down know one really knows if it's capable, most say it isn't in it's present form.

Have a look at the new Symbian Belle update. It's about as close to Android as you're going to get but with ALOT better battery life.

6 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

OS allegiances really aren't necessary here as each OS is suited for different people it doesnt make one better than the other and there are positives and negatives in all of them

1 upvote
GatanoII
By GatanoII (Feb 28, 2012)

android is linux based can easily handle exabyte of informations if you give it enough memory, it's the most suited OS that can handle unlimited image sizes right now, no changes required.

0 upvotes
epdm2be
By epdm2be (Feb 29, 2012)

@ N8Phreak: You mean Android is as close to Maemo as it can be.
Many ppl are brainwashed to believe that Nokia Belle 'stole' UI-ellements from Android while in reality it 'stole' ellements from another Nokia OS (Maemo).

@ GatanoII: you're comment '..can handle unlimited image sizes right now..' is refuted here as Nokia belle seems to handle 38MPixel images just fine.

Why do ppl have such a negative idea about Nokia Belle? A lot of people in here ONLY have experience with defunkt 2007-2008 Nokia devices IF you have any experience at all. Do NOT compare a XM5800 with e.g. N8 (2010) or C7-00 (2011). They're vastly superior especially with a larger ROM and more C:-drive which was the cullpritt for many problems in older pre-2010 devices. Don't forget that Nokia's current flagship camera-phone also costs a lot less than many other high/med-end iOS and Android phones.

0 upvotes
fuxicek
By fuxicek (Feb 28, 2012)

I wanna see this sensor in some high end 10 - 12MP compact camera... could be Canon S 105 :)

0 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

I've a question over this comment "As a result, its photosites are the same size as those in most 8.2MP cameraphone"

does this mean the Nokia N8 would get sharper images? with 12mpx and a 1/1.83" sensor (im a newb here) but ive read a few comments over several blogs saying that the N8 takes sharper images and I'm wondering if that's true and if the quote above has something to do with that?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Sosua
By Sosua (Feb 28, 2012)

Check out the fullsize samples (at 38mp), sharpen and downsize to 8mp - extraordinary.

In good light, they look better than a DSLR.

3 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

i see what you're saying hmm cant wait for the camera comparisons!

and for Nokia to tweak the device even more before release

0 upvotes
Midnighter
By Midnighter (Feb 28, 2012)

They may call 36/38MP 'creative' mode but bring it into photoshop and the resolution it has is... mind-numbing.

2 upvotes
Jim Evidon
By Jim Evidon (Feb 28, 2012)

But will it produce "orbs"?

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 28, 2012)

Hmm. You say no bokeh. The samples beg to differ. Better than many compacts.

And hopefully it won't match my Fujifilm X10 in the orbs department.

I am very likely to dump my iPhone for this camera alone.

5 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

you should have dumped it for a Nokia N8 2 years ago :)

0 upvotes
bradleyg5
By bradleyg5 (Feb 28, 2012)

Honestly hate the IQ on iphones and other smart phones, never felt it was even close to most compact cameras. This on the other hand seems to be noticeably better than most compact cameras. Something like this could actually take some respect worthy pictures.

pureview phone, micro 4/3 compact, full frame dslr. Buying all those would make me a professional right? :P awesome to see such high quality cameras at every form factor now.

On a side critical note that lens does seem to have some pretty crazy distortion and field curvature and and with no ability to stop it down it's going to be pretty hard to keep flat objects in focus.

2 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Feb 28, 2012)

???? From the subjects in the sample photos it seems hard to judge about distortion. Their document claims low distortion.

With a 24-28mm equiv lens, on this size sensor even at f2.4 and with field curvature there should be enough depth of field to keep flat objects in focus - except maybe at very close distances.

0 upvotes
bradleyg5
By bradleyg5 (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm going off this picture taken with it, the distortion is pretty severe and something is not quite right with the focal plane, might just be the way they are arranged though.

http://allthingsd.com/files/2012/02/2012-02-22-411.png

0 upvotes
Russ Houston
By Russ Houston (Feb 28, 2012)

I checked out the full shots from the blog and it's very impresive. Love to see them put it in a WP or Android phone. Well done, Nokia!

1 upvote
kimvette
By kimvette (Feb 28, 2012)

Still very noisy, but even so it is remarkable given the sensor size.

1 upvote
SammyToronto
By SammyToronto (Feb 28, 2012)

Image quality, both still and video, was the main reason I got the Nokia N8 and I haven't been disappointed. This new Nokia seems to be a worthy successor but I'll wait to see how its camera performs with all those pixels when it's reviewed before deciding if it will be my next phone (provided it's released in Canada!). At any rate, good effort from Nokia to think outside the box.

4 upvotes
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (Feb 28, 2012)

Nokia could even license the sensor and processor to compact camera makers. Fuji, are you listening? :p

2 upvotes
tkpenalty
By tkpenalty (Feb 28, 2012)

now, what would be impressive is if these ARM processors were actually used to provide us with RAW files. Yes the first RAW shooting smartphone would really nail it home.

0 upvotes
mark625
By mark625 (Feb 28, 2012)

hey tkpenalty!
my phone, a Nokia N900, is capable of shooting RAW. it has an ARM processor too but it's sensor is not impressive. (i'm writing this comment on my phone right now. hehe)

2 upvotes
DioCanon
By DioCanon (Feb 28, 2012)

we re talking about phones not bricks...

1 upvote
CFynn
By CFynn (Feb 28, 2012)

@mark625

Now if this were running the same OS as the N900 or the N9 - that *would* be awesome....

Still even with Symbian it maybe possible to get this phone to produce RAW

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
234sale
By 234sale (Feb 28, 2012)

just think of the pixel density,,, Intense..

0 upvotes
YvesR
By YvesR (Feb 28, 2012)

Wow! For a "cell phone camera", the image quality is remarkable. The major downside is the cell phone thickness, which means that they may have a hard time to make many converts.

0 upvotes
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (Feb 28, 2012)

Good job. This is one of the best ways to differentiate versus competing smartphones. Though I would want less megapixels for the same sensor size for slightly better DR but the idea of zooming without interpolation is useful indeed. Since the interest is there, DPR, could you do more articles regarding this?

3 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (Feb 28, 2012)

The best way to increase DR is more pixels, so this is the right way to go.

3 upvotes
234sale
By 234sale (Feb 28, 2012)

I would buy this camera,, as I'm usually carrying around 2 dslr's... As to a phone it will work great,

Nokia has an extensive range,, unlike iPhone which is limited to,, err 1.

2 upvotes
Sdaniella
By Sdaniella (Feb 28, 2012)

interesting... pixel binning...
next step optimizing it for both higher-res and larger sensors (and its larger pixels) for low light low noise hi-iso performance

what's the new optimal sweetspot going to be for inclusion of high fps as well, and video, on larger systems?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Kenneth Margulies
By Kenneth Margulies (Feb 28, 2012)

The point & shoot is dead. This is more proof. The number one camera used on Flickr is the iPhone 4. Camera apps and quality keep getting better.

0 upvotes
234sale
By 234sale (Feb 28, 2012)

Number 1 phone for people that upload to flickr is the iPhone 4... Number 1 phone you'll most likely get mugged for as well...

2 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Feb 28, 2012)

Cool stuff there, playing around with the sensor's capabilities through software. Can't blame Nokia for being dissed though, they're not the "preferred brand" however good the technology they developed for their phones. But I give them a hats-off for this. Makes for an interesting and creative discussion!

0 upvotes
Ben Tomohiku
By Ben Tomohiku (Feb 28, 2012)

That is a camera with phone's functions

4 upvotes
tyb
By tyb (Feb 28, 2012)

To little to late! The smartphone market has left Nokia to the same end story of Motorola. Its interesting technology, but nobody is going to buy their smartphone because it takes a good picture and nobody buys Nokia smartphones forthe phone part.

If the phone, OS isn't up to iPhone level who cares, they are irrelevant!

But interesting angle and why haven't the camera companies taken this angle...?

1 upvote
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Feb 28, 2012)

In actuality Nokia is today the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in the world, and looks like it is going to keep on going.

4 upvotes
234sale
By 234sale (Feb 28, 2012)

To little to late!.. Twaddle
The smartphone market has left Nokia to the same end story of Motorola. Twaddle
Its interesting technology, Ohh Congrats
but nobody is going to buy their smartphone because it takes a good picture and nobody buys Nokia smartphones forthe phone part.Twaddle...

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
EvokeEmotion
By EvokeEmotion (Feb 28, 2012)

You hae no idea how big Nokia is as a mobile phone brand in many countries, and I'm not talking about Finland.

And actually, I will buy a phone solely for its camera alone. I am buying this phone the day it is available.

5 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Feb 28, 2012)

Must be an Apple fanboy... who bought his phone a little way over budget vs its competing models

I'd buy this phone because it fits my life. Basic phone functions+ simple internet + good camera = win. Don't need a gazillion apps and games that will eat up the time I could use to take great pictures or call/text loved ones.

5 upvotes
macky patalinghug
By macky patalinghug (Feb 28, 2012)

Nokia is #1 in our third world country. It has been #1 for over a decade now. It shows no sign of slowing down. I might buy this N9 the moment it will be phased out. Which should be around 2 years from now. :) The secret of Nokia's success has been its skill at catering to the masses. They seem to have a phone for everybody. People here either buy Nokia or China clones of popular phones. The very rich have their blackberry but they are only the 1% :)

1 upvote
SammyToronto
By SammyToronto (Feb 28, 2012)

I did buy a phone mainly for the camera (the Nokia N8) and I will probably buy this new phone if its camera lives up to its promise. On the other hand, my carrier gave me an iPhone 4 free to extend my agreement with them and I sold it on ebay the same week. I have no use for that overpriced toy.

2 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Feb 28, 2012)

People may not buy many Nokia phones in the USA - but the same is not true in much of the rest of the world.

You can't even display Indian languages properly on Android - and Apple have only recently added the ability to do this - yet even the cheapest Nokia phones sold in India can do this.

Symbian is a very efficient OS which runs well on low powered devices - and among other things gives very good battery life.
I'm glad to see they are carrying this forward.

At the higher end the Nokia N900 and N9 run proper versions of Linux - Android and the iPhone OS are crippled in comparison. Unfortunately someone at Nokia got scared or influenced by Microsoft and they have more or less dropped Mameo and Meego for Windows Phone - a crazy decision imo.

1 upvote
CollBaxter
By CollBaxter (Feb 28, 2012)

As a long time Nokia user I will only buy Nokia. Because I trust then. I get a new phone every 2 years. Where are the last 2 phones ? . Well the N8 is being used by my son whose Samsung “Died” . The N82 is being used by my daughter as a voice assisted GPS and a carry anywhere and to backup the blackberry when it goes in for repairs. I have a N900 (The orphan) but will replace it in 2 months time probably with another Nokia . The N82 has a great 5mp camera with a proper flash that “Flashes” . The other 2 phones also have great cameras. As a sales person told me . “ The problem with smart phones is dumb people.”

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
DaveMarx
By DaveMarx (Feb 28, 2012)

I wouldn't count Motorola out quite yet, either. Not unless you're ready to count Google out (or did you miss that particular acquisition).

0 upvotes
zigi_S
By zigi_S (Feb 28, 2012)

I'll buy it.

1 upvote
xlynx9
By xlynx9 (Feb 28, 2012)

I think the comment experiment should be ended, people are too negative here.

4 upvotes
bobbarber
By bobbarber (Feb 28, 2012)

Many of them are shills for camera companies. Just filter them out and take whatever information you can use.

0 upvotes
234sale
By 234sale (Feb 28, 2012)

The negative comments come from iPhone users desperate for a phone that doesn't physically break if you drop it..

1 upvote
NetMage
By NetMage (Feb 28, 2012)

Dropped mine twice, no case, no problems - onto asphalt both times.

0 upvotes
pait
By pait (Feb 28, 2012)

The writing in this article is not at the level we have come to enjoy and expect from dpreview. The alliterative use of the pronoun "you" is annoying. Come to think of it, Nokia's idea of pushing the megapixel myth this late in the game is also annoying.

0 upvotes
Baxter Bad
By Baxter Bad (Feb 28, 2012)

They're very smart about the ways they're using these megapixels. I wish the camera makers were this creative.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
EvokeEmotion
By EvokeEmotion (Feb 28, 2012)

Those megapixels are not there for marketing reasons alone. There are technical merits for all those megapixels.

6 upvotes
Caleido
By Caleido (Feb 28, 2012)

Well in that case, I guess the megapixel mythe is ... confirmed.

2 upvotes
epdm2be
By epdm2be (Feb 29, 2012)

@ Caleido: naah not really because Nokia considers this as a 'very good' 8Mp-camera phone. And let's be honest, those pics are mighty fine. I still don't believe they come from a gadget that you have in your pocket. I too want to really see for myself because this is just too good to be true.

0 upvotes
Tom Schum
By Tom Schum (Feb 28, 2012)

I think we are watching the end of the point-and-shoot: with phones getting this good, there is no longer a need for them.

1 upvote
bobbarber
By bobbarber (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, I'm interested. Depends on the price. This would replace my compact.

0 upvotes
mrmut
By mrmut (Feb 28, 2012)

The image quality is amazing.

0 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 28, 2012)

here is an interview with one of their lead imaging guys.. great vision!

Respect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZheH4PjEows

0 upvotes
Anfernee Cheang
By Anfernee Cheang (Feb 28, 2012)

I don't see too many hints here. Although pixel-binning technology is applied, it does use a much bigger sensor than the normal phone cameras.

For example, if an 1/2.3" 12MP compact camera changes to a same size 36MP sensor, what's the point of using pixel-binning? I don't see much benefits unless it changes to an 1/1.2" 36MP one and applies pixel-binning. But then what's the difference if it directly changes to an 1/1.2" 12MP one?

"Size matters". That's the only truth till now.

BTW, I also think the IQ is really good from this camera :D

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
loafair
By loafair (Feb 28, 2012)

The point of pixel binning is to also increase the SNR coming off the sensor.

Essentially, the intensity values of several pixels can be summed to equal one pixel thereby increasing the amount of signal. Noise level does NOT increase. This allows the sensor to appear to have a higher base-line sensitivity than it actually has.

Relevant: http://www.noao.edu/outreach/aop/glossary/binning.html

0 upvotes
Anfernee Cheang
By Anfernee Cheang (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks for the information first.

Your statement applies to pixels that are in the same size. Using the pixel size of Nokia 808 as example, four 1.4um pixels can provide better SNR than one 1.4um pixel without increasing noise level. But how about if comparing four 1.4um pixels with one 2.8 um pixel? Is it still the same? How's the noise level of one 2.8 um pixel comparing to one 1.4 um? And don't forget the circuits around those 1.4 um pixels. It seems the space holding four 1.4 um pixels can allocate at least one 3.0 um pixel.

I know the capability of pixel binning technology. But it has its limitation. To double up pixels and then use pixel binning does not really help too much on IQ. At least it is not as effective as using a bigger sensor. And the increased complexity and storage also enlarge its cost. That's my worries.

0 upvotes
loafair
By loafair (Feb 28, 2012)

A 2.8 micron pixel will likely be better than a 4 - 1.4 um pixels. Fill factor will be higher with the 2.8 micron pixel as more area within a 2.8 micron square will be allocated to the photodiode or at least theoretically.... The reason being...4 - 1.4 micron pixels will required (assuming 4T pixel) 16 transistors whereas the 2.8 micron will only require 4.

As for noise with a 1.4 vs 2.8 micron pixel.... should be similar assuming the components are using the same process technology. The difference in volume required for the PD may increase certain noises specifically associated with the PD.

It has limitations yes, I agree, but the bigger picture (no pun intended) allows the camera to have greater flexibility when capturing images.

Photography is headed to an area where computational augmented hardware will be commonplace - nokia pureview is one example, lytro is another. The imaging world is quite interesting these days.

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Anfernee Cheang
By Anfernee Cheang (Feb 28, 2012)

I understood what you mean. And I am not saying that doing pixel-binning is undesirable. But from my point of view, this 41MP is not the most "balance" solution in regard to cost and performance. To me this is more on business effect than technology innovation. Comparing to Lytro, I will say the latter is more inspiring.

Anyway, my pleasure to talk to you here :-)

0 upvotes
harriv
By harriv (Feb 28, 2012)

When comparing pixel binning vs big pixels on color sensor, you need to remember also the Bayer filter. With four 1.4 micron pixels you get R, B and two B's to calculate value for the new "virtual" pixel. With 2.8 micron pixel you get only R, G or B and need to interpolate missing color values from neighboring pixels.

0 upvotes
AmaturFotografer
By AmaturFotografer (Feb 28, 2012)

How many mp would a full frame camera have with a pixel size equivalent to this phone camera?

0 upvotes
Baxter Bad
By Baxter Bad (Feb 28, 2012)

Someone in the Nikon forum said 431.

2 upvotes
AmaturFotografer
By AmaturFotografer (Feb 28, 2012)

wow, that's huge!

0 upvotes
Jay Kim
By Jay Kim (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm sure making a sensor with 400MP on a Full frame sensor size is possible. But I'm not sure if there is a SoC out there that can handle that much data that quickly. Also, imagine shooting 400MP RAW files. Each file will be around 400MB each! That would be awesome though. =P

1 upvote
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (Feb 28, 2012)

All 3 of them photos have pretty dang good IQ! especially the first at ISO800!

beats alot of compacts at that ISO.

the last pic has quite a bit of detail!

0 upvotes
joe6pack
By joe6pack (Feb 28, 2012)

Come on now. If Nokia can make a camera phone with a 1/1.2" sensor. How come digital camera makers cannot fit a M43 or larger sensor in a Canon ELPH body?

0 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, they thought nobody could mess with them, so they gave us whatever they felt makes sense to them profit wise. Now, they might have a slight problem with this 808 business, and rethinking that strategy is very likely. This is why this product is so important, it changes the way we look at mobile photography.

5 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Feb 28, 2012)

Bear in mind that the sensor dictates the size of the lens. This is small because it has a fixed, prime lens - any camera with this sensor would have to larger than current compacts. How much larger is the interesting question.

1 upvote
gillamoto
By gillamoto (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm pretty sure every camera maker has such technology, or maybe even much better. it's just the matter of business. you know, they release it little by little. but they will aboslutely respond to this new nokia's breakthrough. let's wait what will come in the near future :)

0 upvotes
rsHari
By rsHari (Feb 28, 2012)

Because of the lens size. Mobile cams have a fixed focal length lens, but these P&S cams need to have a zoom lens which will get bigger with big sensor.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
joe6pack
By joe6pack (Feb 28, 2012)

I don't really mind having a fixed lens. Just look at Fujifilm X100. But it is huge compare to a camera phone. When you can fit a large sensor on a true compact body, it is by itself a killer. Zoom is just icing to the cake.

0 upvotes
Mandeno Moments
By Mandeno Moments (Feb 28, 2012)

Three positives:

1) JPEG quality is 95.
2) Haloing is minimal.
3) The neutral density filter will help with avoiding diffraction.

DP Review says that the digital zoom is 28-78 equivalent. The Nokia video shows 24-74.

This is the future of consumer photography, because many people want to take a photo then share it quickly and easily. Some serious photographers like the iPhone 4s as a carry-everywhere, and the Nokia appears to be far better. At full screen the Nokia photos look much more natural (less synthetic) than those from the iPhone 4s.

For me the problem with camera phones is useability, and I find it very hard to imagine a phone that has a user interface as pleasant as that of a Canon S95 (the S95 is an excellent carry-everywhere, so this is a reasonable comparison).

3 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

the Nokia N8 is a far better camera than the iphone4 ;) but many people still prefer the iphone as their everyday carry camera, go figure

hopefully the 808 changes their minds but i think they choose the iphone4 simply because of the Apple rather than the camera

0 upvotes
Peiasdf
By Peiasdf (Feb 28, 2012)

@ stylinred
Notice the comparson is between smartphones and not cameras. iPhones are way ahead of any Nokia smartphones.

0 upvotes
Peiasdf
By Peiasdf (Feb 28, 2012)

Very very bad per pixel sharpness. I still think Foveon or other 3D sensor idea is the future of small sensor photography.

0 upvotes
Combatmedic870
By Combatmedic870 (Feb 28, 2012)

let the 38.4 mp close up photo load all the way and then look. pretty dang good for a cell phone cam.

5 upvotes
Baxter Bad
By Baxter Bad (Feb 28, 2012)

Yeah, real bad. Compared to a Phase One back.

7 upvotes
Mssimo
By Mssimo (Feb 28, 2012)

I believe that is a limit of the lens not sensor.

1 upvote
Gao Gao
By Gao Gao (Feb 28, 2012)

Foveon needs some serious improvement in SNR, though.

0 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, people really look at photos at pixel level I think?

The same way people view 10x10 foot paintings with their eyes with a magnifying glass?

I really don't get the idea of why some people pixel peep so much... and forget about the whole picture in the process. It's still a phone, it will surely look terrible vs. dedicated cameras with bigger stuff

1 upvote
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

the nokia N8 still takes better or just as good pics as the Foveon... and that's a 2yr old device

0 upvotes
CFynn
By CFynn (Feb 28, 2012)

Bad per pixel sharpness? Who is going to print photos from this at a 1:1 pixel size - and then look at them from a few inches away?

Anyway someone on another forum here has already made a pic which shows the detail
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=40739975

Not bad IMO

0 upvotes
Peiasdf
By Peiasdf (Feb 28, 2012)

@ Combatmedic870
I did. I guess I am too used to image from at least an m4/3 sensor.

@ Baxter Bad
Did I say that? You did not bring much to the discussion

@ Mssimo
That's what I've been thinking as well. I'd think no regular optical glass can have that resolution. They might have to get some medical or scientific grade glass to make that lens.

@ Gao Gao
Sigma needs to have someone working on the electronic side

@ Alizarine
Normally you be right but there has been instances where I have to go back and enlarge pictures I took to find item, people… sometime years later.

@ stylinred
N8 against SD1? I kinda doubt it.

@ CFynn
Please look at my reply to Alizarine

1 upvote
y0chang
By y0chang (Feb 28, 2012)

I think Nokia realized that it was falling behind into the darkness of obsolete technology.

We will see with this technology if Nokia will burn bright in the future or fade like all companies do in time.

This was their shot in the dark, but what a shot it was!

0 upvotes
obeythebeagle
By obeythebeagle (Feb 28, 2012)

Everyone knew this is on the way, but the game of tech leap frog just keeps getting faster. 41 meg relatively-large sensor! Software to remove noise. Zeiss optics.

I would have been thrilled with a standard compact sensor, 16 megs and a 5x zoom lens. The last sample shot is awesome. Smart photo phones will replace cameras for most people in a year.

2 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, they kind of did that for me more than a year ago when Nokia launched the N8. It has been solid for my needs.. yes, i do miss the zoom, but its way more convenient to have a camera with you at all times. It pretty much covers my abilities as a photographer, so.. really no need to spend money on more equipment, when I can't fully take advantage of it.

Comment edited 24 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Feb 29, 2012)

A little hint to Nikon: I want and I need a 300-500 megapixel full frame or DX sized camera, and the optics to deliver that. Now who says this is too much to ask when Nokia was able to do this.

0 upvotes
robbo d
By robbo d (Feb 28, 2012)

Nokia always pshing the cameraphone boundaries. I recently got a HTC smart phone cos the N8 was no longer available here. By the time my contract runs out, I will be transferring to this bad boy.
The HTC rates pretty well, but still no match for my 4 yr old fuji p&S in IQ. In not too challenging light it does ok and you cant beat ploading to facebook, emailing straight away.
Believe some camera manufacturers already with products that upload to the net. How long before the Nikon, Canon, Sony and Pentax link with a phone mnaufacturer and make an all in one product. Bet they are looking at it as we speak.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 28, 2012)

a product thats called 808 HAS to be good :)

3 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Feb 28, 2012)

Like EOS Kiss X4. And Coolpix. And Finepix. And Q.

0 upvotes
Baxter Bad
By Baxter Bad (Feb 28, 2012)

@Alizarine. Does you haz music? No?

0 upvotes
Richard Murdey
By Richard Murdey (Feb 27, 2012)

Screw the phone, just put this thing in a camera!!

1 upvote
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 28, 2012)

What.. you don't like to have your mail for exchange account connected to your camera ? :) What Nokia are essentially saying is "Here, buy this camera, and we will give a very capable smartphone for free"

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Terrera
By Terrera (Feb 27, 2012)

I liked it, great camera and excellent idea... but unfortunately Nokia is still a cell phone producer. And they are lacking on one very important issue: OS. No use having a best in class camera if they have a bad OS that cannot handle the hardware, and that is what's happening with Nokia going to Windows Mobile 7.

I like Nokia, all my cell phones were Nokia, but it is used for telecommunications... talking and internet... Wish they would go Android...

2 upvotes
Ray Fischer
By Ray Fischer (Feb 28, 2012)

Windows Phone 7 is not a bad OS by any measure. Don't criticize if you've never used it.

10 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

uh Symbian Belle is better than Android Gingerbread... even GSMArena calls it "almost revolutionary" even though Belle is considered 'late to the game' by critics

and Symbian Carla is coming later this year and Donna the year after (which the 808 is upgradeable to)

I cant stand people knocking the OS when they clearly havent tried it

2 upvotes
zigi_S
By zigi_S (Feb 28, 2012)

One would think as if for some people their life depends on the OS of a mobile phone. It's true that symbian is more clunky than ios or higher end droid, but it still pretty good and far better than some here want to suggest. I'd rather ditch a phone that has problems with making calls, than not that smooth scrolling. But it appears that's not a problem for some, even when the device costs a small fortune. At least, they got a silicone skin that costs to produce, about 20 cents and sells for 20$ for free. Yay!

1 upvote
niskis
By niskis (Feb 29, 2012)

Terrera, I guess you didn't know that Nokia is the biggest camera maker in the world...

0 upvotes
Doug Frost
By Doug Frost (Feb 27, 2012)

Put that camera in an iOS or Android phone and it'll be a hit. But since this thing runs on Symbian we're looking at a major FAIL.

3 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 28, 2012)

Try symbian belle, i think it will change your mind on that very quickly.

3 upvotes
Ray Fischer
By Ray Fischer (Feb 28, 2012)

Try Windows Phone 7. Symbian is history

1 upvote
Mssimo
By Mssimo (Feb 28, 2012)

Theverge: If you're thinking that such a low-res display won't cut it in the modern smartphone world, things get worse once you look at the operating system: it's Symbian Belle. Nokia can say as much as it wants about the steady rate of improvement in Symbian, it's still not an OS we'd recommend any sane person use for extended periods of time. You can notice lag in basic UI navigation and scrolling, which immediately hampers the user experience. There are instant sharing options to Facebook and Flickr in the camera app and the accompanying gallery app does a fine job of browsing through pictures quickly, but overall the software remains this phone's biggest problem.

0 upvotes
Alizarine
By Alizarine (Feb 28, 2012)

I'd like to see it first before judging it by brand preference

0 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (Feb 28, 2012)

Belle doesn't lag on the slower Nokia N8 and it could only be more responsive on the 808 with it's much faster processor.

1 upvote
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

GSMArena Belle "feels almost revolutionary" and this was when they reviewed Belle on the slower Nokia 700

the 808 is a faster device and Belle runs smoothly on my N8 with half the processing power and memory of the 808....

0 upvotes
epdm2be
By epdm2be (Feb 29, 2012)

Ray Fisher: that may be but can you finally do the following with WP7?

1) log on hidden SSD routers?
2) sync contacts through USB cable?
3) send a photo via bluetooth to another phone nearby?
4) record telephone calls (e.g. while driving) even when performed over bluetooth headset?

with or without 3rd party apps?

0 upvotes
eNo
By eNo (Feb 27, 2012)

Wow. Just when you think you've seen everything. We're living in wonderful times for photography.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 27, 2012)

If you like the ergonomics cell-phones for photography, then there is certainly nothing to complain about with this new Nokia. Many are complimenting the colors, but to my eyes, they look strange. The models look a bit sickly with too much yellow in the skin tones. Interesting nonetheless.

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Feb 27, 2012)

Consumers will get a phone because it's a good phone... not a good camera.

.

6 upvotes
Jay Kim
By Jay Kim (Feb 28, 2012)

In that sense, 808 ticks that box better than most Android/iPhones also. e.g. 808 has physical answer/hangup buttons that makes it so much better for phone calls than most smart phones .It also has smart dial which iPhone doesn't, can put shortcuts to contacts on multiple homescreens, can have desktop widgets, has the best free offline navigation app, HDMI out, USB OTG, MicroSD expansion, NFC, user replaceable battery etc. So yeah, it's a good phone even without talking about the camera. =P

3 upvotes
Tee1up
By Tee1up (Feb 28, 2012)

There are a good many of us looking to ditch our point and shoots in favor of a phone that can do both. This stuff is very relevant.

6 upvotes
Entropius
By Entropius (Feb 28, 2012)

I've not yet found a cellphone company that can make a device that is good at either taking pictures or making phone calls. While I appreciate the effort spent on making cell phones take pictures I think I'd rather have the camera makers work on making cameras that can make phone calls -- they can't cock it up as badly as Samsung and Nokia have!

0 upvotes
Jay Kim
By Jay Kim (Feb 28, 2012)

Serious? Nokia N8 makes phone calls just fine. Heck, it's a pentaband that supports practically all world bands and has one of the best reception for a mobile. (way better than iPhone4 / SGS2 etc I know coz I owned all of them)

It also happens to have the best camera on a mobile phone with the largest sensor on a mobile phone (till the 808) at 1/1.83" and has a decent xenon flash to boot. Now this 808 goes a few steps further and it's also a better phone than the N8 due to physical call buttons on the front (just bliss!) and user replaceable battery.

4 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Feb 28, 2012)

You are right, for a long time Nokia phones have had the best reception and the best cameras in them. So if you need a phone, and a camera, and free navigation, and a handy internet device, this could be the best you can get. At least I'm gonna try this machine.

2 upvotes
zigi_S
By zigi_S (Feb 28, 2012)

It's obvious that some people are brainwashed by the fruit or and robot propaganda, that they dont see something revolutionary even when placed in front of their nose.

There won't be a comparable camera from other manufacturers for at least a few years. Especialy korean manufacturers with their subpar camera modules that still cant match even other small sensor modules from their competition.

Android is about free apps, apple smooth experience, but symbian is about hardware. Best, navigation by far, best cameras. With windows it will also be the best in smoothness.

1 upvote
Jez EMIN
By Jez EMIN (Feb 27, 2012)

One word......

Android.

Nokia have to get it in their thick heads that NOT MANY people are that interested in Symbian. It's either iPhone, or Android.

(I miss my Nokia N95 phone since it was an awesome camera, but times have moved forward and Nokia have been left way behind).

2 upvotes
PJInTheUSA
By PJInTheUSA (Feb 27, 2012)

Nokia now use Windows Mobile don't they?

Comment edited 13 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
KieranGee
By KieranGee (Feb 27, 2012)

The stated reason behind Nokia chosing Symbian rather than another OS (and really, Windows Phone would be the only other OS Nokia would use), is because no other OS out there is capable of hacking it with regards to processing the images.
The guys at Nokia basically said that if they'd wanted it on another system it would have delayed the launch of the tech by another year, and having been working on it for five already they just wanted to get it out there

2 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Feb 28, 2012)

I guess the new Symbian Belle OS is desingned to be able to do the tricks this humongous sensor and the prosessing of the vast masses data it creates needs. We really are living in interesting times.

1 upvote
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

not many people are interested in symbian... yet until the end of last year Symbian was still the #1 OS in the world.... and even then Symbian is still #1 in many european and most asian markets....

Heck Nokia sold 20million Symbian smartphones in Q4 alone and they haven't had a significant Symbian device since 2010 with the N8...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
epdm2be
By epdm2be (Feb 29, 2012)

Oh pulease. Stop that crap about Android. Android is a pitfall to fill Microsofts pockets. Then you might as well get a license of WP7.x (which they coincidentally have).

Nokia had Meego which is far better than Android. A true linux-based OS instead of a Java-sandbox over a linux-kernel.

Besides it doesn't matter what OS your phone has as long as it can do whatever you need/want. Or are you so fond of those zillion fart-apps?

0 upvotes
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 27, 2012)

The madness has gone too far. Phones are for phoning (and texting, OK), cameras are for photographing. The sample image on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nokiaofficial/6788333052/sizes/o/in/photostream/) is appalling: it's unsharp and noisy. I don't even care if it's far better than any other cell phone at shooting. It's a bad image, that's all there is to it. If you want to make photos, buy a camera, not a phone.
And no, I'm not 108 years old...

0 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 27, 2012)

look at my gallery, you can get good photographs with a phone.. its not that big of a deal. All the pics there are taken with a Nokia N8

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
jboyer
By jboyer (Feb 27, 2012)

Maybe... the concept of binning using large pixel sensors is interesting, though. I can see some P&S looking at this 'solution' and I can also see, despite your comments, a large crowd of people happy to use whatever is available to take pictures... and that may include phone...smile you are on camera!!!

0 upvotes
eNo
By eNo (Feb 27, 2012)

Base your opinion on the samples. They aren't so bad. We'll see what they look like when we have more images to review, but like it or not, phones are no longer for talking or even texting: they are for connecting you to the world around you. And what better way to connect than to share your life and work in photos and video?

0 upvotes
jeans
By jeans (Feb 28, 2012)

Vlad, you're a good photographer and can use the phone's capabilities and PP to the fullest. But... wouldn't the same images made with a proper camera look and - especially - print way better?

I'm sure you realize that the phones
- provide significantly inferior image quality
- only work acceptably in good light
- have awful dynamic range
- allow you almost no control over DOF
- can't be tripod mounted (unless you invent some weird contraption)
- are inconvenient to shoot with
- don't take filters (unless you hand-hold them)
- are unresponsive
- don't let you use high ISO without huge penalty etc.

BTW, I don't underestimate the phones as my most successful image was made with a small-sensor camera. It was a while ago and modern phones may provide comparable IQ, though not comparable optics.

UPDATE: Despite what I just wrote, this new camera's samples look extremely promising

Regards,
Jean

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 28, 2012)

vlad0, I've looked at your photos and they're OK. The aesthetic sense is all there and subjects are beautiful, if not too imaginative. Now - can you do streaking, blur and selective focus with a mobile phone? Can you use the lens you need for the framing tou want? Of course you can always post-process, but there's little you can do *before* releasing the shutter button. That was my point.
And no - I'm not going to show you my photos... OK, maybe just one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/manuelvilardemacedo/6784563629/in/photostream
You can't do that with a mobile phone.

0 upvotes
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 28, 2012)

eNo, that link in my comment is a sample image to which digital zoom (because that's what it really is) was applied. Re. the rest of your reply: if you like consumerism and think it's all OK, well... whatever floats your boat. As for me, I do my best to try to remain lucid instead of being brainwashed into marketing lies.

0 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes, I understand that you can do much more with proper gear :) The point is, for a amateur photographer like me, who shoots a flower and a sunset every once in a while, the quality isn't that big of a deal.. and I feel like there are more people out there that are like me, than semi-pro photographers.

That is all I am saying : ) And this 808 is more than enough for everyday photography, its very accessable.. the phone is pretty much always with you.
and thanks for the compliments !

oh, and they (from the N8) print very well on A4 size paper.. you could test one yourself if you don't believe me. I print them on a cheap canon mp620, glossy paper, and they look very good.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Caleido
By Caleido (Feb 28, 2012)

Look at the samples in this article.
How on earth can you call those "appalling"? Are you blind?
Or do you have a medium format Leaf sensor in your own phone?

1 upvote
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Feb 28, 2012)

I am a professional photographer and I couldn't care less if it was a shoe I was taking my pictures with as long as I get the pictures I want. And this camera ("phone") seems very very interesting to me, at least. Different tools for different tasks, or something like that. :)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 28, 2012)

'Are you blind?'
That was completely unnecessary, Caleido. If you have trouble managing your emotions, you should get professional help.

0 upvotes
Caleido
By Caleido (Feb 28, 2012)

I am not the one having trouble seeing very good new technology with a lot of potential at very good quality or narrow-mindedly yelling out how very wrong it is that a good picture can be taken with - blasphemy! - a cellphone.

Phones are for calling and texting only? It's your right to skip the new digital age and keep your old Motorola from 1997 for texting and calling. Everybody happy.
In the meantime, we'll use smartphones for browsing, connecting with people all over the world, music, HD recording and taking great photographs.

True, you're not 108. But you do your very best to act as one.

1 upvote
RPJG
By RPJG (Feb 28, 2012)

M1963: wow, your entire post is a value judgement that it seems very few people share.

- the "madness" is only just starting, and it seems that everyone apart from you is pretty excited about it!

- thankfully, phones are no longer just for phoning; welcome to the 2000s

- the sample images are really quite amazing. You're forgetting that the vast majority of people just want to share photos with their friends. Sure, you can use a "real" camera for "real" photography, but that's completely missing the point

- it doesn't matter whether you care. Often people don't even want to carry around something like an S100. If phones like this can take and share more-than-good-enough quality photos, why would that upset you? I just don't understand that superior attitude, when this hobby can be just as much about the joy of capturing moments and sharing them

- as another poster said, you certainly act >108! This as an amazingly positive thing, and yet you still find reasons to grumble

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting
1 upvote
BJL
By BJL (Feb 28, 2012)

M19663 and jeans,
Most phones have poor picture quality because of their tiny sensors, but this one has a 1/1.2" sensor, far larger than even high end compacts like the LX5, G12 or X10.

Also, 100% viewing of the 38mp files is missing the point: look at 8mp or 5mp versions, or view images sized to fit on screen. Lots of serious DLSR and MF users are quite impressed by these compared to compact digicam photos.

1 upvote
EvokeEmotion
By EvokeEmotion (Feb 28, 2012)

Jeans: Nokia is selling a tripod mount accessory for the phone.

0 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

Im not a photographer in the least but im quite happy with the photos i take with my N8 check out some of the user posted images in the Nokia N8 User Group on flickr some are mind boggling http://www.flickr.com/groups/nokian8/

and check out my gallery if you wish for what a regular user can do
http://www.flickr.com/groups/nokian8/

0 upvotes
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 28, 2012)

Go on and keep acting like the sheeps stockholders and CEOs want you to be. In the meantime I'll just keep true to *real* photography.
Someone said I am narrow-minded. What do you call, then, to the ones whose brains are formatted to buy whatever is marketed as the next big thing? Nokia say '41 MP' - and, crucially, 'big sensor' - and the crowds salivate like the proverbial Pavlov's dog, but I'm the one who's narrow-minded... oh well...

0 upvotes
Caleido
By Caleido (Feb 28, 2012)

You're completely embarrassing yourself. You should stop now.

0 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Feb 28, 2012)

@ M1963 "And no, I'm not 108 years old..."

109?

I feel it's just plain stupid to ignore these new photographic devices like this new Nokia. Is it really such a bad thing that it is relatively small, pocket-able and still very able to take great pictures too, besides all the other handy things it does?

And, yes, I have had Hasselblad equipment too, taken pictures with it, professionally. I hated it.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 28, 2012)

Caleido, thank you. You managed to bring what otherwise was a nice exchange of opinions down to a gutter-level argument. I quit - not because you told me to (I don't concede you such authority), but because people like you and the so-called «professional photographer» are a complete waste of time.

1 upvote
Caleido
By Caleido (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh you mean calling others who do see the glass as half full and are positive about this - undeniable - step up in technology, I quote, "the ones whose brains are formatted to buy whatever is marketed as the next big thing?" is a fine example of exchange of opinion?

Embarrassing. Like I said. Good day.

0 upvotes
epdm2be
By epdm2be (Feb 29, 2012)

No it's NOT appaling. You commented on a picture with overal bad lightning and somewhat stronger lighting at front. This means Nokia is fair enough to show you its disadvantages (like the purple fringing on her legs) and indeed the noise. Download the pic and resample in e.g. photoshop to see what this is all about. I think Nokia did a fine job with that camera-module. What wories me more are the dead pixels on the girl's sleeve above her elbow.

And which apparently is unnoticed (which I find odd for a photography site)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Mar 1, 2012)

We have to remember that it's not that uncommon to have dead pixels on a sensor. So far almost all my digital cameras have had them. No big deal, since it's really easy to fix them.

0 upvotes
Cheng Bao
By Cheng Bao (Feb 27, 2012)

will dpreview post an in-depth review for this?

finger crossed

0 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (Feb 27, 2012)

They should :) They never did one on the Nokia N8, which until today, was the best camera smartphone out there.

7 upvotes
BJL
By BJL (Feb 28, 2012)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/02/15/dpreview-is-hiring-mobile-imaging-editor

Job number one when they fill this position.

0 upvotes
Rage Joe
By Rage Joe (Mar 1, 2012)

@vlad0. "They should :) They never did one on the Nokia N8, which until today, was the best camera smartphone out there"

That really was.. 'strange Apple''... since Nokia N8 is much better than most of the P&S' and still the way best camera smartphone out there, before 808 comes out.

0 upvotes
Lan
By Lan (Feb 27, 2012)

Nokia isn't a sensor manufacturer, so whose sensor is it?

More samples from the 808 here:
http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Archive2.zip
(will it post the link? If not, it's on the official Nokia 808 PureView blog)

About the only instant problem I can see is a few stuck pixels. Not surprising at 100%, but somewhat surprising in the downsampled images. Buy DxO guys!

Those low ISO 38MP images look gorgeous when downsampled to ~10MP.

Design-wise it looks remarkably similar to my last cameraphone - the Kodak/Motorola ZN5. One of the few sensors to date to use an RGBW array. Samples from the ZN5 in my DPR Gallery if anyone's interested.

Congrats to Nokia on a potential winning cameraphone; just make sure it has the features that we want as photographers. Histograms and exposure compensation at least please. Ideally some way to manual focus, or to adjust the focus in some way - zoom review or peaking for the playback as well!

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Feb 27, 2012)

Nokia talks about Toshiba being a 'development partner.'

1 upvote
Jay Kim
By Jay Kim (Feb 27, 2012)

They never included any advanced camera features into the N8. It will also not have such advanced camera features in the 808 from what I can see. Heck, N8 never even showed what exposure settings it used to capture. (such as ISO/shutter) Unfortunately, I expect this to be the case even with this 808. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they did, but I doubt it.

0 upvotes
Lan
By Lan (Feb 28, 2012)

Richard: Thankyou! If you get the chance, can you subtly hint to Nokia that the camera freaks want some camera controls? ;)

Jay: At least they don't have to worry about cannibalising their mainstream camera interests by giving us the features we want...

0 upvotes
Jay Kim
By Jay Kim (Feb 28, 2012)

I agree. So I have no idea why they don't include a "advanced" mode in the camera app with the enthusiast features. I hope they do with the 808 maybe as an update later.

0 upvotes
Jack
By Jack (Feb 28, 2012)

Check out the vastly improved UI in this video:
http://youtu.be/jT2tAqcWP4o?hd=1

Auto/Scenes/Creative modes, and the video wisely drills deep into the Creative mode.

0 upvotes
Lan
By Lan (Feb 28, 2012)

Jack: Thankyou for that; they look to have it well in hand. Looks like bracketing, and exposure comp, in addition to a whole host of other camera controls. Very nicely done Nokia!

Jay: If they're not photographers then they simply might not know what features to include. Fortunately it looks like they have most of those features covered by the video Jack linked above!

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

@JayKim you could always download some camera apps that would give you those settings/functionalities like CameraPro

0 upvotes
stylinred
By stylinred (Feb 28, 2012)

watch this interview with Damian Dinning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZheH4PjEows

He says that they went to Sony/Toshiba etc but they didnt have a sensor like this

So Nokia designed it and worked with partners to get it made

0 upvotes
epdm2be
By epdm2be (Feb 29, 2012)

@ Lan: The phone software has manual ISO control, exposure compensation with real-time histogram, touch focus + additional focus modes (infinity,hyperfocal+close up), several scene modes (I counted 8+AF), Neutral Density filter on/off, several capture-modes including self timer/interval/bracketing, sharpness/contrast settings... and the fun part. You can store upto 3 sets of settings!

I think this is pretty advanced, don't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZheH4PjEows

has an interview with o/t lead engineers Damian Dinning.

@ Jay Kim: The N8 HAS an ISO setting unfortunatly they're labeled high/normal/low. I remember that high = ISO1200. It also has exposure compensation, scene modes, selftimer etc... Not as 'advanced as this model but IMHO still pretty compresensive (especially for a 299 euro smartphone)

0 upvotes
DavidSvensson
By DavidSvensson (Feb 27, 2012)

Has it occured to anyone that this sensor is just 12.9 mm on the diagonal?

(The 1/1.2" size number comes from the stupid tradition of referring to camera-phone sensors the same way old-time video cameras image vacuum tubes were reffered to the surrounding outer glass size rather than the active image-sensor area)

Which is very much smaller than any APC format DSLR camera sensor.

Still VERY large for a camera-phone, of course.

Anyway, I just looked at the last image at 100% pixels size, and WOW this is an exceptional camera by any standards. Pixel-sharp at 1.4 um pixel size.

David

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Feb 27, 2012)

That's why I put the diagram in.

7 upvotes
rocklobster
By rocklobster (Feb 27, 2012)

I actually had this idea a while ago as a means of dispensing with big lenses in order to get a good zoom range but realised the significant compromises in noise and DR. I am sure that camera manufacturers had thought of this as well (especially Fuji with the EXR) and having weighed up all the pros and cons have gone no further. But now with high Mp counts and density a possibility, perhaps compacts will go down this path or just leave it to the phone manufacturers. Perhaps, as one poster said, the compact camera's days are numbered but if that ISO 800 shot is anything to go by, a reasonable quality compact still does a much better job.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Jack
By Jack (Feb 28, 2012)

Fuji is the other company with innovative sensors, along with Foveon, but every new sensor was obsolete before processing computationals caught up to its potential. Now it's great to see Nokia pushing the envelope, too. Nokia is using the tried and true 1/2.5" sensor, except combining 4 of them into one unit and working with processing technology, fruits of which will bear for all to see, for better or for worse.

Someone should definitely compare it to a Ricoh GRD IV or V (when it might move to CMOS from CCD)

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
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