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Fujifilm X10 firmware: Appears not to fix 'white orbs'

By dpreview staff on Feb 18, 2012 at 00:55 GMT

We've been taking a look at Fujifilm's recently released firmware update for the X10, which was designed to reduce the much-discussed 'white orbs' blooming effect. Our initial conclusions are troubling enough for us to pre-empt our forthcoming coverage of the issue with a quick update on our findings so far. 

The 'white orbs', or 'white discs' issue refers to the X10's tendency to render clipped point highlights as sharp-edged white 'blobs'. Sadly, all the indications from our studio and real-world shooting so far are that the update appears to have very little effect on the appearance or intensity of these artefacts.

We're still working through the necessary studio and 'real world' shooting for an in-depth look at the differences between the old and new firmware, and we'll post comparison images as soon as possible. Until then, our friend Jeff Keller at www.dcresource.com has posted a quick before/after firmware update comparison.

Comments

Total comments: 601
1234
gianniviola
By gianniviola (Feb 18, 2012)

I never had problems...

1 upvote
Alfie Smith
By Alfie Smith (Feb 19, 2012)

---------------------------------------------------------

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Marek07
By Marek07 (Feb 18, 2012)

I started having problems with the 'SilkyPix' RAW conversion software on my macs....in that it just continually crashes even after a re-install, and now noticing more and more white orbs,
Does anyone know another way I can batch convert the RAW images from this camera, and if there is a way to lower the risk of capturing images with white Orbs!!!??...as there doesn't seem to be much support for it!
I have only had this Camera 3 weeks and already considering return it, It's a shame because on paper it ticked all the boxes!!

Kind Regards

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

To reduce orbs you can try shooting at ISO800 or above, and f8 or f9. That will give you extra noise, give you kind of artificial looking - identical - flares, and make the fast lens a waste of time, but it may stop you getting unwanted white spheres in your pictures.

Some say that DR100 is okay for this, but if you use DR400 you are more likely to get hard black edges on your orbs.

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 18, 2012)

$600 for a P&S with a faulty sensor is unacceptable, period!!

7 upvotes
solsang
By solsang (Feb 18, 2012)

If the raw button is reprogrammed, there is no menu option for changing raw settings, you have to reassign the raw button to do it, more crippling!

Furthermore the update removes the different iso for each pasm setting, which is one of the things i liked about the x10

This update is the most dissapointing i have ever witnessed, and the reason i am sadly avoiding the camera; i was going to try it even with the orbs

1 upvote
Reg Natarajan
By Reg Natarajan (Feb 18, 2012)

You're mistaken about the menus. RAW is in the setup menu if you ever need it, right beside AEL lock.

0 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Feb 18, 2012)

...and reprogramming the RAW button only affects the button in "shooting mode" functionality remains the same in playback mode. No harm in this firmware feature, as you decide to use it or not.

Kind of agree on the "unlocked" ISO setting for the PASM modes. This was surely meant as a feature, but not that well received by users - and Fujifilm LISTENED!

But to me the most dissapointing aspect of this firmware update was the vague commincation from Fujifilm and failure to, in any way, to address the WDS matter...

0 upvotes
Scann3r
By Scann3r (Feb 18, 2012)

My answer from Fuji Sweden (Before fw 1.03 update)

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&message=40612787

My X10 is sold now so the headache is gone. Unfortunately the pill cost me €150.
This was my first Fuji camera and my last one also, no more Fuji for me.

6 upvotes
Red Bicycle
By Red Bicycle (Feb 18, 2012)

Nigel

Your comment on a serious issue is as inappropriate as the response from Fujifilm. You say you are absolutely with Fuji on this issue - I say with an attitude like yours you should work for them.

1 upvote
rodek
By rodek (Feb 18, 2012)

I wonder if this orb problem is relating to a certain batch of cams. (Same problem 9 years ago with S2).
Maybe users who encountered this problem can mention their serial nr so we can see if its narrowed down to a specific production period.

Btw, I am still not able to produce orbs, so I might be one of the lucky guys

(I also posted this request in the previous related item on this orb problem)

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

That's Fuji's last hope: that someone will believe this and be suckered into buying a flawed camera in false hope.

The answer is no. The newest serial numbers STILL produce orbs.

The real fun is going to come when the spring and summer sun hits the Northern Hemisphere. But Fuji will have made a bundle by then.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Nigel CheffersHeard
By Nigel CheffersHeard (Feb 18, 2012)

I can hardly believe what I'm reading here. A small chip digital camera is always going to have trouble dealing with specular highlights that are way brighter than the total range of the rest of the picture. It's physics, so get over it. To have completely vilified and interesting and innovative camera smacks of rather obsessive pixel peeking, and not enough time taking real photographs in the real world.

Fuji are a truly innovative company who have always ploughed their own furrow. I personally think it's great to see them making a real impression against the traditional duopoly.

As for the unhappy response to the reply from Fuji Sweden, I'm absolutely with Fuji. It's a perfectly reasonable response, and your attitude that it's your last Fuji camera confirms that maybe the problem was about 2 inches behind the viewfinder.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

This is the ONLY small chip camera on the market that does this, except for the XS-1. And no it does NOT fall in with normal parameters. OR physics. I have not had a camera screw up like this in forty years of photography.

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B8B4583D2924473A8CDAB1F80B9CC1C2.jpg

Nor have I seen justifiable concerns so denigrated by a manufacturer.

Anyone who doesn't see what a huge marketing disaster this is for Fuji should possibly apply to them for a job.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
14 upvotes
ljclark
By ljclark (Feb 18, 2012)

Nigel,

Physics? Perhaps. But I've tried to get orbs with two other digital cameras (a Ricoh GXR and a Panosonic DNC-TS3) -- both with smaller sensors than the X10. With the GXR I used exactly the same indoor controlled conditions and set the cameras up the same way (including shooting both RAW and JPEG.

How come I can only get orbs with the X10?

As to the response from Sweden...That's just blathering. I'd love to get a deposition from that guy.

5 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 18, 2012)

Nigel, I think u need to get your facts straight... white orbs IS an issue ONLY on the X10: DPReview, DCResources, Pocket Lint, Digital Camera Info all got orbs in their testing of the X10...(its unacceptable on a $600 P&S, period) a faulty sensor is just another Fuji QC nightmare (X100 with sticky blades, X10 with Orbs and XS-1 with a droopy barrel) a great Pro line Fuji (Made in Japan huh)...

5 upvotes
tessl8d
By tessl8d (Feb 18, 2012)

Great reply Nigel. I don't own one of these, as I've bucked the trend and moved away from compacts. However I do own a classic piece of Fuji, the F30.Wish I had've bought two. This X10 thingy comes from a company which had it right years ago. How could they have got it so wrong?

1 upvote
tessl8d
By tessl8d (Feb 18, 2012)

Previous post was directed at ljclark not Nigel, woops,
:)

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Feb 19, 2012)

@ rodek: Please do us all a favor and RETIRE from the "camera expert business." Along with your 99 or how many Fujifilm cameras, okay? You are just not getting it.... any of it, see? Thanks, Mate.

0 upvotes
lol101
By lol101 (Feb 18, 2012)

Don't bother investigating further: the firmware update fixes nothing concerning the orbs.

The only thing it does is skewing the EXR-Auto program line towards higher ISO which might minimize orbs in certain situations.

They did add a second customizable button and improve face detect AF though... but I doubt it will make up for the still existing orbs! :-)

4 upvotes
tem00
By tem00 (Feb 18, 2012)

You don't need to shoot rare, long exposure, night scenes, to get ugly orbs.

Just shoot around a lake, pool, river, sea, with the sun shining, at an ISO appropriate for outdoors (100-400), and they will most likely ruin your image.

I have a P7000, DP!, DP2, F600EXR, and they do NOT produce orbs in same situation.

Maybe if you live up North or where the sun is not intense most of the year, you may be OK, but otherwise look out.

Really loved the camera's feel, but glad it was just a loaner.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Reg Natarajan
By Reg Natarajan (Feb 18, 2012)

I've had an X10 for a few weeks. Shot perhaps a hundred photos so far, about half at night in the city. No orbs yet. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I am saying I haven't seen any. I have noticed a lot of blown highlights, but my gut feeling is that's because I'm new to the camera and haven't yet figured out the best combination of settings to deal with night photography in the city with this camera. It's been rainy here the last few days and I haven't made it out again to see if I can't beat that problem.

Daytime shots and nighttime shots that don't have intense spot lighting have all turned out very well for me so far.

I did the firmware upgrade yesterday and, while I can't assess how it dealt with the orbs (since I haven't seen any, yet), I can say it lets me reassign the RAW button to another function, which is incredibly valuable to me.

If the orbs ruin the camera for you, ok. I'm not saying you should feel otherwise. They don't ruin it for me. I haven't seen them.

1 upvote
Alfie Smith
By Alfie Smith (Feb 18, 2012)

lier !

0 upvotes
Alfie Smith
By Alfie Smith (Feb 18, 2012)

oh, I'm sorry... blind !!!

0 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 18, 2012)

Show some simple: night time long time exposure shots and high light reflection on shining surface in daytime please. If not then you either work for Fuji or just another lier who don't even have a X10.....

0 upvotes
tessl8d
By tessl8d (Feb 18, 2012)

100 photos in a few weeks eh? They must be pretty well thought out, I'd like to see em. Usually takes me about 300 or so in a day or two to figure out all the settings on a new cam. Looks like you have a real affinity with that camera you hardly use,

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Feb 19, 2012)

Even if I owned an X10, knowing what we know I would NEVER "upgrade" the firmware if it is from Fujifilm. I just can't trust them.

0 upvotes
jorepuusa
By jorepuusa (Feb 18, 2012)

I have Fuji X10. I did not buy it to shoot white orbs. I bought it because of its superior ergonomics. The white orbs can be seen sometimes when a shot is taken. But one has to hunt the picture to find them and if You do not know what to look, You cannot see them at all.
I´m sure that 99% of people who write here do not have a Fuji, do not know what the orbs look and do not find them in a picture.
I admit that they are there BUT similar white orbs are produced by Canon G12, Nikon P7000, not to speak of cheaper point and shoots.
This " conversation" here shows the main problem among amateur photographers.
Most of them cannot shoot a proper picture and they know that they never will, anyways they want to stay in the crowd of photographers and the only way is to write miserable and laughable thoughts of technology.
That is the worst way of making photography go further.
All cams over 500€ produce pictures that cannot be separated from each other in web and very thinly as prints.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

I have one too. I get many shots ruined by white orbs, partly because my subject matter is different than yours.

I didn't buy mine to shoot orbs either. I wish it did not.

If you think ANY other camera produces similar orbs, rather than flare, you do not know what the Fuji trademark orbs look like. I also use the G12. It never produces orbs like this

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B8B4583D2924473A8CDAB1F80B9CC1C2.jpg

If you took your images to a processing lab, and some idiot technician had punched white holes in one in every thirty or forty, would you keep using that lab?

And before you call OTHER photographers amateurs, show us some of your work. It's easy to see mine. Why is it people who call others amateurs ALWAYS have empty galleries?

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
20 upvotes
qwertyasdf
By qwertyasdf (Feb 18, 2012)

+1 ( to GaryJP)

4 upvotes
Jorginho
By Jorginho (Feb 18, 2012)

Dpreview are amateurstic nitwit shooters than. I think this is really sidestepping the argument. Yes, there are people that do not know how too shoot as well as others. But this has little to do with a technical shortcoming of a cam.

2 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 18, 2012)

Jorginho, I think u may b the nitwit, because the technical shortcoming is a manufacturing fault (faulty sensor on a $600 P&S no less) the abilities of the shooters is of no consequence as the Orbs occur with everyone at any-time, beginner, amateur, and enthusiast, read the fujifilm forum and you'll see... get some facts before 'nitwitting' around. Fuji should be ashamed, of the product and their attitude!!!

1 upvote
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 18, 2012)

Please show orbs on the P7000!!! I think you are merely a fuji fanboy...white orbs on a $600 P&S is a disgrace, as is Fuji's attitude to the problem, if its a problem with amateur photographers why do DPReview, DCResources, DCI, Pocket Lint etc get the orbs too??? they are professional camera review sites!!! please get your facts straight before you write BS!! makes you look like an amateur yourself!!

3 upvotes
jorepuusa
By jorepuusa (Feb 18, 2012)

This is my portfolio for my Angloamerican clients.
http://puusaportfolio.blogspot.com/ ( copy and paste the link )
I´m not uploading anything to Dpreview cause I do not have to prove anything. ( CV is in Finnish only but for instance I´ve covered war and crisis and famine in 9 countries for AP, UPI, DPA and AFP)
Orbs are not a real problem in normal photography which is for normal audience, orbs are not a problem at all. But if one is shooting for orbs or other technical problems only, then ofcourse..nice hobby I quess..orbphotographer or a problemphotographer ;-)
Only because someone has wrote about them, they are a subject here, otherwise none in this thread would had noticed anything.
Some people just have to show problems in cameras to be alive.
But those people are not photographers.

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Pasha001
By Pasha001 (Feb 18, 2012)

> I admit that they are there BUT similar white orbs are produced by Canon G12, Nikon P7000
This is not true. For example, X10 would significantly screw these shots but G12 and P7000 are OK:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28073671@N05/5482796830/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/girolame/5675225540/sizes/l/in/photostream/

> I have Fuji X10. I did not buy it to shoot white orbs.
Alas, you'll have to.

0 upvotes
Pasha001
By Pasha001 (Feb 18, 2012)

> I´ve covered war and crisis and famine in 9 countries for AP, UPI, DPA and AFP
Not exactly a believable claim considering how bad your portfolio is.

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
jorepuusa
By jorepuusa (Feb 18, 2012)

8-D

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Feb 19, 2012)

"I´m sure that 99% of people who write here do not have a Fuji."

Yes, jorepuusa, you can definitely call us the lucky 99 percent. The 1% is stuck with these duds, and some of them cannot even figure out with all of our collective help what the problem really is. That's just too bad.

0 upvotes
Red Bicycle
By Red Bicycle (Feb 18, 2012)

I am disappointed with the brand Fujifilm. I think most of the disappointment stems not from the obvious problem with the sensor but from their condescending attitude, particularly that of the marketing manager who was recently interviewed about this issue. It's one thing to rush a product to market it is an entirely different thing to then criticize your customers when they discover the problem you didn't fix.

9 upvotes
mark finn
By mark finn (Feb 18, 2012)

I guess DPReview had better start incorporating some point source light tests in its previews and reviews. Who knows how many orbing compact cameras there are out there?

Comment edited 29 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

One.

Maybe two.

Both made by Fuji.

People keep trying to suggest other cameras do it, but they haven't succeeded in showing a true example yet.

6 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 18, 2012)

Lets see if Fuji continue laughing off the issue... as they did when the issue was first picked up, they basically said, 'sensor is functioning within normal parameters' mmmm, NO!!!

4 upvotes
PentaxNick
By PentaxNick (Feb 18, 2012)

Have they published what hey say are the normal parameters for this sensor? They might be right!

0 upvotes
Earthlight
By Earthlight (Feb 18, 2012)

There will probably be masses of early adopters for Fuji's future products... not.

I feel sorry for the beta testers who are now stuck with their orb-o-matics.

3 upvotes
Guidenet
By Guidenet (Feb 18, 2012)

I would have thought they'd have easily caught this during testing. They must have rushed sensor production before the testing was over just like a lot of people purchased before reviews and early adopter experiences came in. Everyone rushing to get the latest.

Now, if you were the Fuji boss for the year, how would you get out of this, knowing it was a sensor issue and not fixable via software? You could financially cripple the company by taking them all back. You could bluster through it and give people software to fix it in post and a free leather case. Might work but expensive.

What you couldn't do is to recall them and replace the sensor. What new sensor? Who could do the work? I bet the cost would be greater than a whole new camera production. Again, you'd financially cripple the company. Sometimes it's impossible for a company to do the right thing. The right thing for you might be completely wrong for owners of their other cameras. There has to be a compromise.

0 upvotes
tonywong
By tonywong (Feb 18, 2012)

Looks like most modern camera development is rushed nowadays. I think the engineers and project managers have a hard time determining what is a small issue and what is show stopper during the development cycle.

Canon 5D Mark II had black dots on one side of the over bright areas, and the Sony Alpha 580 had ghosts, both of which made it to the launch date before they were addressed.

Hopefully the X10 white blob issue will be fixed via firmware. Modern consumers seem to put up with everything launching as 'beta releases' in the internet age.

0 upvotes
Pbvascon2
By Pbvascon2 (Feb 18, 2012)

Guidenet: Fuji will still have to deal with the profit loss of all the returned and unsold X10s (the prices have been dropping sharply).
But I think you are reversing responsability: it was Fuji's decision to use an unconventional sensor on the X10 developed internally, so they should have tested it better before committing to production. Moreover, there is also PR damage due to loss of trust. I returned my X10 and will not buy a new Fuji without waiting for tests, reviews etc. So what was the advantage for Fuji of rushing the X10 to market?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Humboldt Jim
By Humboldt Jim (Feb 19, 2012)

A generous buyback /sensor replacement/camera replacement program would be the only way to save face, retain customer loyalty and retain remaining credibility. Expensive in the short run, less so in long run.

Al that is needed is the "new and improved" fully tested sensor.

HJ

0 upvotes
Richard Murdey
By Richard Murdey (Feb 18, 2012)

WDOD

White disks of doom. RROD for photographers.

Looking at the examples the problem is both a) severe, and b) clearly hardware. Firmware options to mask or reduce its influence are most likely going to be ineffective.

1 upvote
Alfie Smith
By Alfie Smith (Feb 18, 2012)

"Appears"??? is not the right word. It doesn't fix nothing about.

2 upvotes
Sam Carriere
By Sam Carriere (Feb 18, 2012)

Isn't there an old Barnum & Bailey adage that covers people who are happy to pay up even if the product doesn't work quite as it should?
Come to think of it, there was also a U.S. president whose mantra was "Deny, deny deny..."
Fuji is in fine company.

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 18, 2012)

So, DPR, since you are taking quite a bit of time to do what would seem to be a simple before/after comparison, what we also need to know is if other Fuji cameras are affected. Hopefully, the answer is no, because they are not going to replace every camera they have sold over the last couple years. I haven't run into the orbs myself but I wonder if Fuji didn't see them when they were developing the camera. No, I don't believe they would have sold the camera if they knew you could get orbs. It's not about ethics; they just don't need the grief.

0 upvotes
CrazyCanuk
By CrazyCanuk (Feb 18, 2012)

Don't hold your breath.... they've been holding back on their review of this camera since last November. Look closely and you'll see Fuji dollars hanging out their back pockets.

0 upvotes
Don Simons
By Don Simons (Feb 18, 2012)

Any manufacturer knows that when this sort of thing happens it is a living nightmare.They have two options which are both costly, one is to recall the faulty products and repair or replace them, or two go into denial and hope the problem will just go away and be forgotten. Tough business decision, usually brought on by insufficient field testing of the product or excess pressure from sales and marketing to bring forward a release date. Fuji appear to be taking the second option so far.Hope they know what they are doing as there are plenty of other good cameras out there for their disappointed x10 customers to transfer their loyalty to. But who are we to advise Fujifiilm what to do? It is their problem.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

Most disappointed X10 customers will likely NEVER trust this manufacturer again. Particularly when their concerns are ignored or ridiculed.

1 upvote
VadymA
By VadymA (Feb 18, 2012)

Is there White Orb Removal app yet?

0 upvotes
Alfie Smith
By Alfie Smith (Feb 18, 2012)

No, but I found one that counts them.

2 upvotes
digiratidoc
By digiratidoc (Feb 18, 2012)

Uh...I don't remember Leica recalling the M8. Sure they gave away a few filters, but if you had any legacy lenses you were stuck. And they never really fixed the camera, but people still buy them, used. The price of an X10 is peanuts in comparison.

3 upvotes
digiratidoc
By digiratidoc (Feb 18, 2012)

My point is they sold a broken camera for BIG bucks and never fixed it. And if you wanted to use your venerable collapsible 50 cron on your M8 you had to shell out a lot for an odd size IR filter, not to mention the fact that some of us hate using any filter in front of Leica glass. Never fixed it.

0 upvotes
shutterbobby
By shutterbobby (Feb 18, 2012)

Great--now we have more serious reviewers stating the FW upgrade did Nothing to alleviate the Orb problems--now we see if Fuji has any Ethics left..............

0 upvotes
Alphaloki
By Alphaloki (Feb 18, 2012)

You guys should probably take a deep breath and step back from the nuclear attack button. I have used the X10 and can say that my experience with it was very positive. While I have no doubt under certain conditions this camera might render specular highlights unfavorably, it's not suddenly rendered useless. ALL cameras have some weaknesses. That doesn't make them impossibly dysfunctional bricks of metal, glass and silicon. It means they have weaknesses. This camera also has some great strengths and features, and the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this shortcoming is overblown. I think it is a very interesting alternative to the thousands of "me too" cookie cutter point and shoot cameras out there. I've been seriously considering buying one for myself based on my personal experience with it. I think it's a compelling camera. I have the "high end" DSLR space in my bag filled, but have not used another point and shoot as compelling as the little Fuji. To each his own I guess...

11 upvotes
ljclark
By ljclark (Feb 18, 2012)

So what you are saying is that Fuji designed it that way -- and you're good with that?

8 upvotes
deeohuu
By deeohuu (Feb 18, 2012)

"ALL cameras have some weaknesses." seems to be the best argument X10 apologists can offer. It is disingenuous or naive to equate the failure of the X10 sensor to render highlights the way that 100% of cameras in the same price range render them, and most cameras at any price for that matter, with other models' weaknesses. Why does no one ever offer examples of other weaknesses that are comparable but have not resulted in such negative reaction?

I give thanks to the pixel fairies for compelling me to send mine back before my grace period expired.

7 upvotes
NinpouKobanashi
By NinpouKobanashi (Feb 18, 2012)

Hmm, my Nikon D700 is rated rather well, and my sensor blooms as well. I really do wonder if people can't comprehend that all products have pros and cons? The Canon 5D MK II had black dots on initial release ;)

It makes me want to find an X10 on sale now.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
deeohuu
By deeohuu (Feb 18, 2012)

That doesn't help Fuji at all - Canon's firmware update ACTUALLY DID fix the 5D II!!!

The D700 bloom is nothing compared to the X10.

4 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

I have used it too, still do, and my standards are apparently more stringent than yours.

0 upvotes
Alphaloki
By Alphaloki (Feb 18, 2012)

Well guys, it's not about having low standards, I'd estimate mine are pretty high. I suppose it's about how I would use the camera. When I'm shooting something that will hang on my wall as a print, I'll use my 5DII and take every precaution to extract all it's capable of. When I need a camera to throw in my pocket to grab some shots when I'm out and about with my wife or buddies, the X10 seems capable enough to get the job done well. I suppose if the x10 was my only option, then perhaps I'd be more concerned. I see the camera from the standpoint of fast lens/shallow depth of field/point and shoot size usage. I'm not saying the blooming doesn't exist, just for me, with the camera's intended use (As I would use it), the problem's minor. Save the personal attacks for someone else, I don't care enough to get angry about this discussion. Civility and sincerity is much more likely to get your point across to me.

0 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Feb 18, 2012)

Why "appears not to fix 'white orbs'"/. It is simple, they did not fix the problem.

Comment edited 21 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
CrazyCanuk
By CrazyCanuk (Feb 18, 2012)

dpreview have had this camera since last November and have deliberately mislead folks by holding back their full review. This is just more of the same.

0 upvotes
activator
By activator (Feb 18, 2012)

I will be thrilled when all the dissgruntled X10 owners sell thier cameras buy another make..and go and bore the other forums...
Ive never read such a bunch of half assed whingers anywhere.
Please move on !

0 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 18, 2012)

The camera is under warranty, if all send camera for the technical services of your area, there will be a way to tell Fuji who has been thinking seriously how to solve this problem. But if still can return, now is the time.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

Except Fuji has already claimed to some users it's working "to spec".

3 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 18, 2012)

Yes I see the point. In the rest of the world does not know for sure the warranty conditions. In Europe the guarantees are two years against manufacturing defects. On the other hand if the camera works under fuji's specifications, then these same specifications should be mentioned in a camera and the client's manual have knowledge. Consumer protection measures in the EU are quite tight.

0 upvotes
ljclark
By ljclark (Feb 18, 2012)

Then Fuji can show us the spec.

0 upvotes
Len_Gee
By Len_Gee (Feb 18, 2012)

Hey, do I hear "recall"?

Thank God for the early adopters who put their $$$$ and good faith up for the X10.

Glad I waited.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm an early adopter.

I knew of the white disk problem before I purchased at the beginning of November.

My shooting style does not give me white discs - these depend on highly reflective surfaces and/or shooting into the sun, or long exposures at night, to appear.

While white discs are a problem for some shooters there are others like me who are not really affected because of our style of shooting.

This is not meant to trivialise the issue, which will be a real one for some. But with maybe 1 image in a thousand affected I am not at all bothered by it.

If Fuji don't fix the X10 I will still be buying their next version, this series is so good.

1 upvote
ZoranC
By ZoranC (Feb 18, 2012)

Now that Fuji has shown to us how "seriously" they took $600 X10 development, X10 testing, and X10 customers, as if issues with $1100 X100 were not enough of an indicator, anybody still willing to spend $2300+ on Fuji X-Pro1?

If they say "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" what they would say for "fool me three times"?

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
16 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 18, 2012)

Fuji may have rushed X10 to market, but X100 issues? It's a great camera, and quite honestly, based build quality, and IQ, it's a great price. How many all metal cameras with innovative viewfinders that produce extremely fine images can you find at that price. Leica X10 anybody?

And based on the Fuji X-Pro1 pre-orders it looks like plenty of people are willing to buy it. They can't all be gems.

2 upvotes
ch01
By ch01 (Feb 18, 2012)

X100 has its own issues, my copy had a tilted viewfinder and it took fujifilm months to rectify it (well I cut the long story short, they messed up with my cam and can only give me a new one after months), well then there is sticky aperture, not to mention the DOF scale which is still mis calculated

1 upvote
lightandday
By lightandday (Feb 18, 2012)

The moment of truth has arrived- FUJI Australia - do it now please "Fix the problem ".

0 upvotes
ljclark
By ljclark (Feb 18, 2012)

This is so stupid of Fujifilm. They are trying to build a spot in the marketplace for an upscale line of cameras (very nice X10 adverts in the in-flight magazines, BTW). But they blew it with the X10 hardware. You can bet that there are some Fuji engineers who know exactly what the problem is -- and how to fix it. But management isn't listening -- a certified case of cranial-rectal inversion.

Even if they had to abandon some of the EXR functionality, I'd take an orbless reworked X10 over the present situation any day. They'd gain a lot of customer creds if they just said "We messed up. We'll fix it."

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Have people considered just sending the X10s in for warranty service? Again and again for as many times as it takes?

3 upvotes
Sdaniella
By Sdaniella (Feb 18, 2012)

well, a long time ago, i had gotten for my spouse/family a spare digicam Fujifilm Finepix F810 Zoom, it was my first from Fujifilm... and apparently the first NON exposure simulation digicam I ever had...

It was THEN, did I realize not all digicam liveview were the same, and it was handicapped with only a 'framing/composition' preview type of live view, with the usual TTL analog light meter scale reading display showing...

Little did i know, all fujifilm digicams were like this, as well as all kodak digicams... and a whole slew of other mfr models too...

From then on... i was more careful to avoid digicams missing what my older PowerShot G1 had... exposure simulation live preview...

it's still taking over 12 years for folks to even know the differences in live view to this day...

good thing... by skipping fujifilm... i also skipped its recent Fuji-Orbificating digicams...

yes... it is SENSOR related... not processing... as ORBS appears in RAW apparently too...

1 upvote
Sdaniella
By Sdaniella (Feb 18, 2012)

not all lights Fujorbificate...

only the most intense light spots do it.

i think the key to reduction for the time being would be to adjust contrast settings to lowest possible value, before shooting, thus fewer high intensity light spots will Fujorbificate...

folks must keep in mind, the default contrast for most digicams and dSLRs are usually quite contrasty, but options usually exist for custom reducing contrast, at least for JPEGS. i am unsure if in-camera adjustment to lower contrast will make any difference to RAW... so perhaps, ultimately, it may make NO difference at all how one shoots.

additionally... the widest aperture is usually the highest for contrast, so if one opts for a narrower tighter aperture, the contrast is tamed a bit more.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
ljclark
By ljclark (Feb 18, 2012)

I can verify, from tests after the firmware 1.03 update, that the orbs are just the same RAW or JPEG.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

This wasn't even a particularly high contrast situation. In a shopping mall in mid afternoon

http://g1.img-dpreview.com/E7C2D1FBB253434EBDC82E9DDE9B923B.jpg

3 upvotes
DDWD10
By DDWD10 (Feb 18, 2012)

The source doesn't even have to be intense. Check my gallery for an example of a dim LED clock on a microwave showing intense orbing. It's all about high local contrast.

1 upvote
NowHearThis
By NowHearThis (Feb 18, 2012)

sydue, what the frick is Fujorbificate? Tried a google search, no luck. Google translate was no luck either.

Couldn't find that word used either on DPR or DCResource. hmmmm.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 18, 2012)

Some of the most disturbing blooming we've ever seen. I do think it's unlikely or even possible for Fuji to implement a recall and completely replace the sensor as some of suggesting. Not saying they shouldn't or won't. Just don't recall any manufacturer ever doing something as large scale as a recall. They may continue to say that it only happens in "isolated shooting conditions" like... shooting lights.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

With my Canon 1D MkIII, Canon did TWO hardware fixes for free for anyone who took them to a repair centre.

With the 5D, which reportedly had some loose mirrors, Canon ALSO fixed the mirror for free, in or out of warranty.

This is Fuji's error, and one it's compounded by living in denial ever since the error was first mentioned, and not only continuing to sell the model but also putting the same sensor into a new camera. It ought to fix it.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 18, 2012)

@Hunter SThompson
I was actually making a poor joke that shooting a bright light could be extremely rare, isolated conditions.

But this is obviously no joking matter to owners of this camera. Personally, went through a small sensor P&S phase (yes I know the X10 is 2/3" sensor), but I now think that large sensor mirror-less cameras are so good, small and inexpensive, there is little reason to go with small sensor cameras these days. Of course, advice like this doesn't help fans and owners of the X10 now.

1 upvote
Jeff Morris
By Jeff Morris (Feb 18, 2012)

Does the X-S1 have this problem? Is it sensor related?

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

Yes it does. Although some say not to the same degree.

Yes it is sensor related.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=40447114

2 upvotes
starwolfy
By starwolfy (Feb 18, 2012)

.

Comment edited 38 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
spoorthy
By spoorthy (Feb 18, 2012)

this snt a fluke. dcresource had same issue

0 upvotes
chopsteeks
By chopsteeks (Feb 18, 2012)

So what did it fix ? Is there an option to back it out

0 upvotes
ljclark
By ljclark (Feb 18, 2012)

I don't think it will hurt anything to leave it in place. And there are a couple of other thins that happened with the update. Read Fuji's release notes.

0 upvotes
Silent Oracle
By Silent Oracle (Feb 18, 2012)

Bravo! Great job, guys. :-)

0 upvotes
DDWD10
By DDWD10 (Feb 18, 2012)

I held out for this firmware update, missing my Amazon return window.

Fujifilm has betrayed us. We won't be back.

14 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 18, 2012)

Another topic for Francis Carver :)

2 upvotes
John_I
By John_I (Feb 18, 2012)

Hallelujah DPreviewers! The coverage of an obvious and serious fault is becoming more widespread!

The orbs have been visible in all modes with the right conditions and in all ISOs. I have reported same months ago to Fujifilm Japan, Fujifilm Canada and my local Canadian Bricks and Mortar superstore.

Looked fwd to the firmware upgrade. Nope. It doesn't work. I use and have used Nikon pro equipment for years. It's a great camera aside from the orbs. I don't publish "bad" or "faulty" results.

Thus what you see online at my (almost) daily photoblog is the best of what the X10 can do. It's a third take anywhere camera. BUT it does have a fatal flaw. It needs to be corrected.

Can you somehow convey this to, up until now, a Fujifilm management team with their heads in the proverbial sand.

Sensor recall. Lens recall. Real firmware (?) fix. Just do it!

John from Toronto
Best of my X10 - http://jbipix.com/?s=fuji
http://jbipix.com

6 upvotes
lightandday
By lightandday (Feb 18, 2012)

John - I'm counting on FUJI Australia to pressure their head office JAPAN to do something immediately or give me an authorising letter to give my retailer to get total refund !

0 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Feb 18, 2012)

I returned mine, loved the camera but not the serious issue.
If its fixed i'll buy one again.

4 upvotes
zcus
By zcus (Feb 18, 2012)

Bravo DP for announcing this and putting pressure on Fuji to step up and do something!!!! Now, will they? Doubt it! SAD!!!!!

9 upvotes
JWilliam
By JWilliam (Feb 18, 2012)

Fuji,

Please the right thing and recall the camera to replace the x10 sensors.

Stand behind the customers who support you in good faith.

18 upvotes
WASBA
By WASBA (Feb 18, 2012)

white hole? retro style? honestly I liked fuji's neo-classic design but controlling is really tough and IQ is not as expected. I think ricoh's GR series will be best camera in class.

0 upvotes
Ernest M Aquilio
By Ernest M Aquilio (Feb 18, 2012)

This is most definitely a hardware issue IMO. There should be a recall to replace the defect in the X10 sensors. A simple "bandage" will not work. Until then my money will stay in my pocket.

The X10 was/can be/is very promising on paper.

0 upvotes
Superka
By Superka (Feb 18, 2012)

Fuji, I would be happy to see a new film camera from you, not digital! Smth like TX-1(2). Look at the prices of Xpan (TX-1,2) on ebay, people really need it! There will be no white disc! Pleeease!

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Feb 18, 2012)

Sadly, yes it is true... the white orbs are still there...

Just look at the white orb on the lower left of the photo of the prize winning shot if the World Press Photo 2012...

What? ... It wasn't taken by an X10?

Your, joking... right?

Right?

2 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 18, 2012)

You seem to have no clue what the Fuji (TM) orb looks like.

It is a perfect sphere, often with black edges, of the kind that virtually never occurs in nature.

A highlight is not an orb.

Which camera lab do you work for? I'd like to avoid it.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
11 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Feb 18, 2012)

The ferret camera labs.

We ferret out answers like the one you gave above.

1 upvote
bradleyg5
By bradleyg5 (Feb 18, 2012)

Wow those shots are identical and what an absolutely disturbing issue to have. never realized how distracting it really is.

I'm doubting it is fixable in firmware, probably the electronics on the chip themselves that are causing it.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
reginalddwight
By reginalddwight (Feb 18, 2012)

Why release a firmware update that doesn't reduce orbs? Head scratcher.

0 upvotes
SteveNunez
By SteveNunez (Feb 18, 2012)

Most likely to entice purchasers who are considering the X10 but were holding off due to the "orb" problem....a firmware "fix" would be all that's necessary to convince some potential customers that the problem has been solved and thus more sales.
From the samples I've seen, it seems to have NO effect on the orb issue.

3 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 18, 2012)

That's a very good point since this had nothing to do with firmware in the first place. It's the way the sensor behaves.

0 upvotes
Xiaomao
By Xiaomao (Feb 18, 2012)

Hope Fujifilm will put their in releasing a brand new X11 or X12, instead. I like the desigh and idea of X10, but will buy one without orbs.

5 upvotes
Potemkin_Photo
By Potemkin_Photo (Feb 18, 2012)

Time for Fuji to put these X10s in the $99 bargain bin already. Then maybe I'll buy one for kicks.

0 upvotes
mlmusto
By mlmusto (Feb 18, 2012)

not white orbs. the eggs of mothra

1 upvote
micahmedia
By micahmedia (Feb 18, 2012)

Best comment in this entire thread mlmusto!

0 upvotes
lolopasstrail
By lolopasstrail (Feb 18, 2012)

This discussion of random ball lightning in your photos can be misleading in the sense that the discussion tends to overshadow other problems with this camera.

I purchased it with delight last fall. I never experienced specular clouds. I did experience other issues, such as lack of convincing IS, hidden by a tendency to choose soaring ISO when possible; inexplicable AF misses, image quality not living up to the hype, very good but still average for the segment; sometimes not powering up when turning the lens, high contrast capability ("dynamic range") that didn't live up to the hype. Autofocus and power on speed only average for the niche=

A nice camera with a great lens, but notliving up to the price by any means. Returned it for a P7001 for $350- near half its price, with albeit a slower lens.

I am not saying the X10 is a bad camera. I am saying that I found it a very very disappointing camera.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 47 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Mike Fewster
By Mike Fewster (Feb 19, 2012)

Does the X10 have an aa filter or does it have the Fuji technology that is claimed to avoid the need for an aa filter? There are real advantages and disadvantages to not having an aa filter. The advantages are in resulution of fine detail which the Fujis seem to do very well. So are we just looking at a tradeoff? Just like the Leicas without aa filters also have trade offs. For the same reason the new Nikon D800 is coming out in two versions, one with an aa filter and the other without. It seems quite possible that the "orb" is also on other cameras without aa filter but as the senor in the small Fuji is smaller, it shows up more on this model.

0 upvotes
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