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Fujifilm X10 firmware: Appears not to fix 'white orbs'

By dpreview staff on Feb 18, 2012 at 00:55 GMT

We've been taking a look at Fujifilm's recently released firmware update for the X10, which was designed to reduce the much-discussed 'white orbs' blooming effect. Our initial conclusions are troubling enough for us to pre-empt our forthcoming coverage of the issue with a quick update on our findings so far. 

The 'white orbs', or 'white discs' issue refers to the X10's tendency to render clipped point highlights as sharp-edged white 'blobs'. Sadly, all the indications from our studio and real-world shooting so far are that the update appears to have very little effect on the appearance or intensity of these artefacts.

We're still working through the necessary studio and 'real world' shooting for an in-depth look at the differences between the old and new firmware, and we'll post comparison images as soon as possible. Until then, our friend Jeff Keller at www.dcresource.com has posted a quick before/after firmware update comparison.

Comments

Total comments: 601
1234
nojos
By nojos (Mar 25, 2012)

How can someone know that all x10 have the 'orb' issue?

0 upvotes
sgmcenroe
By sgmcenroe (Feb 24, 2012)

Is the white orb problem universal???? Does every X10 have it. Does anyone have a percentage of affected cameras? If it is a problem with 10-20% of the camera bodies, perhaps the thing to do is get your camera and put it through its paces, and return it if the orbs are an obvious problem.

0 upvotes
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Feb 25, 2012)

yes - all X10 have this problem

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 24, 2012)

Just an observation. Most of the people who are eagerly awaiting DPR's review of the camera have already decided it is a "brick" (like an Argus C3, I suppose), a worthless piece of junk, a scam, a sham, a scandal, etc. This being the case, who needs a review? The orbs exist. Whether this is a crisis, a tragedy, Obama's fault, or not a big deal will be determined by the camera's users and won't be changed by a test report.

1 upvote
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 25, 2012)

I think the review is more for those who are satisfied with the camera than those who are not, or not even think to buy a camera in this case. Won't be the review that will give more or less value to camera after all this comments. Indeed I believe that will add some value to be honest. However these complaints and dislikes expressed here have more negative effects than a possible review. When someone wants to see what they(users) say about the (any)camera, the honest feedback and not fanatical, of the real users will have more influence on their decision whether or not to buy a particular model of camera. The biggest problem is that Fuji, officially says nothing about the problem. And the news is viral. The major culprit is the Fuji and nobody else. If however the Fuji come out with a fix for this issue, it is appropriate to give the due attention that the problem has a solution. But through firmware I doubt it, I hope to be wrong! But I continue to be interested in the review.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
1 upvote
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Mar 1, 2012)

Dpr might want to do a reveiew, Digitall might want to do a review, but the first question is: "Is it a cam?"

Can dpr give it "conditional" points?

It ain't a cam today and because there is no recall it ain't going to be a cam tomorrow.

Personally, the problem appears a lens coating -- sensor combo and, therefore, a total loss.

0 upvotes
TA2000
By TA2000 (Feb 24, 2012)

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/2012/02/fujifilm-x10-review.html

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 12 minutes after posting
1 upvote
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Feb 25, 2012)

Thank you!
Yes - you either love it or you hate them
best conditions for a cult-camera

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Mar 1, 2012)

Con: 'Recall worthy'

This reviewer has lost his marbles. He is going to pin the X10 to his chest.

0 upvotes
Joe11
By Joe11 (Feb 24, 2012)

Why is there no discussion regarding ..

a) Influence of Fukushima disaster to sensible electronic components ?
Is there anybody who has checked this camera with a Geiger-Mueller counter tube ? Why do you exclude any influence of it ?

b) Weak AA filter or no AA filter.
Of what I would dream about, to have a X10 without AA filter.
I don't care much about these white orbs. When I make pictures of shiny objects, I use another camera. But I would like the advantages of weak AA filter or no AA filter.

So what do you think ? I hope Fuji will make no stronger AA filter with all your complaints. Because if you want these white orbs to be removed, picture quality in low light conditions might become worse in return. Is this what you want ?

So please don't talk about faulty sensors, but assumptions which can be the reason for the white orbs. Hope it has nothing to do with contaminated material from the disaster. Can this be excluded ?

1 upvote
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Feb 25, 2012)

There is something
One can not exclude Kontaminierug
It could be a plutonium contamination
first-time buyers are already suffering from leukemia?
Now our homes radiate the X10
Strictly speaking, the X10 would be disposed of in nuclear repositories
what does the CIA?

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Mar 1, 2012)

Klutzenberg totally clueless of corporate callousness

0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 24, 2012)

So, is it official that a new FW is on the way to address the orbing issue?? I see the piece between Andy Westlake and John but I don't know who Andy is?? can anyone advise, thanks

0 upvotes
SHood
By SHood (Feb 24, 2012)

No firmware is coming. That quote from Andy Westlake was from feb. 8th (before this firmware was released).

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=40546663

0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 25, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification

0 upvotes
John_I
By John_I (Feb 24, 2012)

Andy Westlake wrote:

> Which is precisely why we're delaying the review - we're waiting for the promised 'anti-orbing' FW update. Until then it's on hold.

> Andy Westlake

Thanks Andy. Now that is good and welcome news! I believe that this is the first real confirmation that anyone has heard of yet another FW upgrade directed at the orbs per se.

John from Toronto
Best of my X10 - http://jbipix.com/?s=fuji

0 upvotes
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Feb 24, 2012)

Fuji calls back the X10
will replace the faulty sensor with the sensor of the X100.
that's a word - guys

0 upvotes
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (Feb 24, 2012)

You are joking? The sensors are not the same size.

0 upvotes
John_I
By John_I (Feb 24, 2012)

Andy Westlake wrote:

> Which is precisely why we're delaying the review - we're waiting for the promised 'anti-orbing' FW update. Until then it's on hold.

> Andy Westlake
> dpreview.com

Hello Andy.

As orbs were immediately visible and destructive to photos, I wrote to Fujifilm Canada, Fujifilm Japan and Henrys Cameras where I purchased the camera. My return period has long ago expired so I waited with patience for a "recognition" of the issue from Fujifilm, that incidentally never came, just a waffle.

Here is what the X10 *can do*.

http://jbipix.com/?s=fuji

You and DPReview also waited "in good faith". The "fix" did nothing that I can detect.

Now for a DPreview!! What's up? A potential recall? Another fix? A review? If not now, when? I really do feel you should either publish or explain. Many of us have been with DPReview for years. But it is time for you to step up to the plate and do something.

Respectfully!

--
John from Toronto
JBIPix Photoblog - http://jbipix.com

0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 24, 2012)

I think Fuji's silence on this issue is abysmal! I'm shocked that a massive company like Fuji cannot just do a recall and fix the X10 (sure they lose a bit on money, a drop in the ocean to them) but they WILL earn back a little respect!! currently their silence is just dragging them further down the 'bad PR' blackhole, even loyal customers will think twice when the next cameras come out... I saved 3 months for the X10 but got me the P7100 instead, if Fuji had not been silent and come up with a plan (fixed sensor on new X10's & replacing the faulty sensors on those already purchased for e.g. I would have waited and got a new X10... but their silence and ignorance is astounding...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Feb 24, 2012)

Fuji said it:
It is blooming within the tolerances

I'm waiting for the final evaluation of dpreview

0 upvotes
nicoboston
By nicoboston (Feb 24, 2012)

Who cares? Do you need DP Review to think? You cannot even have your own opinion?

0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 24, 2012)

They said that in Dec 2011 following consumer complaints (laughed off the issue) but since then a number of review sites have reviewed the X10 and have found orbs during testing, a firmware release did nothing to address the orbs and Fuji is just silent... head in the sand mentality!! and hard edged specular orbs is definitely not within tolerances, blooming fine, but not what we are seeing on the X10...

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Feb 24, 2012)

Fujifilm? They still in the camera racket business?

0 upvotes
lightandday
By lightandday (Feb 24, 2012)

600 and still counting - FUJI FIX IT PLEASE !

0 upvotes
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (Feb 24, 2012)

Isn't underexposing a lot fix this, though crude?

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 24, 2012)

No it doesn't. The point is that orbs usually appear with a specular highlight much brighter than the rest of the scene. So unless you underexpose it so much everything else is black, or practically so, ift does not work.

1 upvote
nicoboston
By nicoboston (Feb 23, 2012)

See what the paperweight, the brick, the defective sensor can do:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=40705161
It's so good to see a post without ORBsessive Compulsive Disorder...

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 24, 2012)

My iPhone takes pictures too.

If you point away from what causes a camera a problem you can delude yourself it doesn't have that problem.

But why should you have to?

2 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 24, 2012)

Sigh.

Again,

If you spent $600 on a tv and certain channels had white specks all over the picture would you be happy and see nothing wrong as long as you didn't watch those channels? Would you tell the people who did watch those channels "My tv works fine" with the implication that there's no problem with the tv and they just didn't know what they were doing? Or would you consider the product defective?

The camera is defective. Just because some people choose to buy and use the camera anyway or because the orbs aren't in every photo doesn't change that fact.

Most people expect a product that costs $600 to function correctly. Just because some people apparently don't mind if it doesn't function correctly doesn't mean the ones that do mind don't have a legitimate complaint.

Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Michel Fury
By Michel Fury (Feb 23, 2012)

What a pity. I hope they fix the problem soon. I love this camera and i will buy the x 11 when available. But this is not normal:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/playthemagictorch/6773830898/in/photostream/lightbox/

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Feb 24, 2012)

Wow, that looks crazy! "Not normal" is an understatement.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 24, 2012)

That's just disgraceful.

How anyone can claim it's otherwise is beyond me.

0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 24, 2012)

Wow that's bad. The sad thing is there are people on this site who would tell you that you either just don't know what you are doing or that the camera is fine and you just have to shoot pics with out specular highlights in them. It's ridiculous the absurd lengths people go to in order to justify their purchases or brand loyalties.

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

Fuji - they should not change much. Enter the X10S the sensor of the X100 and I'll buy for 800 Dollar

2 upvotes
sarkozy
By sarkozy (Feb 23, 2012)

a very good deal rusticus!

1 upvote
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (Feb 24, 2012)

why not $800 for the x100, it should be getting lower prices these days.

2 upvotes
Drew5100
By Drew5100 (Feb 23, 2012)

I say it's time for Fuji to replace these faulty sensors with new ones that do not "bloom" with blobs. Expensive, yes (for Fuji), but otherwise, I now own a $600 paperweight, which I consider to be way too expensive for me.
If firmware cannot provide a fix, this may be the only logical next step from the X10 customer perspective(?).

I can deal with flare, but not this mess. My nightime city shots look like s%^t. And....good luck to anyone who is pre-ordering Fuji's XPro 1.

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

> but otherwise, I now own a $600 paperweight<

is a very good paperweight, but

No - I disagree
99% of all my photos with the X10 are no orbs
If Fuji could replace the sensor - yes,
But they have no other EXR sensor for the X10

2 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 23, 2012)

No rusticus... $600 for a P&S with a faulty sensor is unacceptable!! one shouldn't have to worry about orbs ruining photos (however scarce they are)!

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

Yes, but there is no other or new EXR sensor for X10
Give the X10 back or use for Foto - I keep my X10

3 upvotes
TA2000
By TA2000 (Feb 23, 2012)

I must agree with rusticus...I'm keeping my X10. It's like a having a really hot girlfriend that has a crazy, annoying laugh. Everything about her is great, she's just perfect for you, and she look really cool hanging around your neck. However, she has that one flaw, and if don't keep her from laughing she's going to irritate the hell out of you. If Fuji comes out with a new model X11??? without the orb issue, and it fuctions like my X10, I'll probably buy it. I'm not saying the faulty sensor isn't a big deal, but what can one do besides complain and wait for a response from Fuji. Myself, I will continue to send my complaints to Fuji, but I'm also going to go on using and enjoying my X10.

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

I love the X10 and the EXR sensor

She's my digital Leica M3

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 23, 2012)

It depends on your usage. For the situations in which I shoot, orbs are a common problem. In my work I deal with hot lights. In my hobby shooting I like the look of the city at night. In those instances, the X10 is like a "really hot" girlfriend (or boyfriend, depending on your gender) who NEVER wants sex.

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 22, 2012)

And here the comparison
the old Russian military base with the X100 photographed

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/upload?album=rusian-military-base-with-the-x100

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 22, 2012)

old Russian military base (the former East Germany near the Polish border)
Here the Russians were stationed up in the nineties
slowly conquered the natur this terrain back

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/648896439/albums/old-russian-military-base

All Photos of the X10 - I think the X10 is already a great camera, but the balls interfere, if they occur
Fuji should think about compensation

2 upvotes
sarkozy
By sarkozy (Feb 22, 2012)

yes - the Fuji works very good, to 99%

0 upvotes
rainman1978
By rainman1978 (Feb 22, 2012)

OMG its a flagship compact.

White flag I supposed.

2 upvotes
craigferguson
By craigferguson (Feb 22, 2012)

Some people are just homeboys.

0 upvotes
craigferguson
By craigferguson (Feb 22, 2012)

New firmware will not fix this camera,s white blobs. Time for Fugi to crap or get off the pot.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 22, 2012)

They have. Where do you think the X10 came from?

3 upvotes
nicoboston
By nicoboston (Feb 23, 2012)

From your embryonic brain?

0 upvotes
KuroKam
By KuroKam (Feb 21, 2012)

White discs? Orbs? I'm waiting for the next version where a Yeti appears in every shot. No wonder it's X-series camera... X as in X-files.

2 upvotes
Kaiserpix
By Kaiserpix (Feb 21, 2012)

OK, so now that we know, there's no fix to the white discs (yet), let's ask Fuji to at least give us some other, overdue firmware improvements. As a make-good gesture.

I have started a new firmware wish list over in the Fujifilm Talk forum. Please add points here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=40687292

0 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 21, 2012)

Fuji Japan claims that the X10 has no error? Ok, from here all cameras with the EXR sensor will have to produce Orbs. In the future if the Fuji EXR sensor do not produce "Orbs" are the cameras damaged?

Are you kidding Fuji?

I leave you this question to think it.

If so, I don't want the second version of this camera, I know what awaits me.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Feb 21, 2012)

Folks, what we have here on the part of Fujifilm of Nippon is a world-wide public relation catastrophe or earthquake/tsunami proportions.

0 upvotes
rodek
By rodek (Feb 21, 2012)

I told u to get medical attention,, ur brain is shrinking by the hour

1 upvote
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 22, 2012)

I was just thinking the same thing. The fallout from these blobs will make the Fukushima nuclear reactor disaster seem like a pop from a kid's burp gun. The toll in human suffering will be unmatched in human history.

2 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 22, 2012)

Doesn't seems like they care, typical Japanese arrogant.

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
KuroKam
By KuroKam (Feb 21, 2012)

How come no one has brought up a supernatural explanation for this phenomenon? Could these orbs be the spirits of the Fuji founders? Perhaps they're disappointed with where the brand is headed and now haunt all new cameras.

2 upvotes
max metz
By max metz (Feb 21, 2012)

Everyone has their own taste in photographic gear, though there are also image quality considerations when selecting equipment.

That said, a good photographer with an x10 will trance any Nikon or Canon below asp-c with kit lens - to do it you need to know your stuff, though the x10 is easily capable enough. Its a no holes bared photographers camera for a very low price.

If Canon aspc dslr users whinged continuously about near useless slow live view or Nikon equivalent users whinged continuously about not being able to have aperture changes reflected in live view without an exit and enter; we probably would not see all those wonderful challenge winning images associated with those stables.

Most traditional small Fuji owners wouldn't know a good camera if they fell over it, the x10 represents something completely foreign to their experience - its not a point and shoot, its a very complex professional camera capable of very professional results

5 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

Funny man metz, slow live view whinging is NOT the same as a defective (i.e. Broken sensor!!), and a decent photographer with canon or nikon can trounce a X10 user just as easy!! the X10 produces orbs (randomly as verified by 4 or 5 review sites) this is a result of a faulty sensor, if people still want to get the X10 that's their choice but pls don't legitimise that choice at the expense of other brands (which have perfectly healthy non orb producing sensors!)...

4 upvotes
max metz
By max metz (Feb 21, 2012)

Viewing your page of posts complaining about this camera in your profile, it seems that the x10 has given rise to some religious verve in you, this camera now representing to you the manifestation of some evil. I would guess you either haven't used one or if you have it was beyond you. If you don't like it buy another brand - you'd be better served worrying about how Australia and New Zealand will trance you lot in the rugby next time round. :-)

2 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

Ah metz, enjoy the bliss that comes with idiocy...the X10 has a faulty sensor the X10 produces orbs period... I guess the review sites that got the orbs are below 'your ability' too! At least taking photos with other brands of camera's at the rugby won't cause orbs which I'm sure would be present in X10 pics (some at least) given the high contrast situation due to the spot lights on the field at night... but enjoy your little fantasial sojourn at my expense its fine. Where the evil comes from you'd only know, as to the verve yes I have a problem with a $600 product that's faulty, simple, no devil incarnate inspiration as you suggest, maybe you should take chill pill and chop those horns on your forehead! oh and its trounce not trance (house music genre) idiot!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 21, 2012)

If you spent $600 on a tv and certain channels had white specks all over the picture would you be happy and see nothing wrong as long as you didn't watch those channels? Would you tell the people who did watch those channels "My tv works fine" with the implication that there's no problem with the tv and they just didn't know what they were doing? Or would you consider the product defective?

This has nothing to do with ones skill or style as a photographer. The sensor is defective. Just because some people choose to buy and use the camera anyway doesn't chage that fact. It's just that some people expect a product that costs $600 to function correctly and some people apparently don't mind if it doesn't. Either way it says nothing about their skill as a photographer.

4 upvotes
DDWD10
By DDWD10 (Feb 21, 2012)

I wonder if Max or the other cheerleaders would care to explain to me why no one wants to buy my mint X10 on craigslist for $450. Not even the low-balling spammers will touch it with a ten foot pole!

1 upvote
Stungun
By Stungun (Feb 22, 2012)

Totally agree with you. I gave Canon , Nikon and Fuji a try, I actually bought the P7100, the G12 and the X10. Already sold the P7100 and today I sold my G12 too. It seems that some people can't accept the fact that this is such a good camera.
It seems that most of then never touched one. I just went outside and tried to produce orbs at night with car lights and light poles, not a single one in many modes and in pro low light mode the camera froze a speding car at night in a dark street, amazing. Other cameras won't produce any orbs but won't get that picture too.
Even if it was a camera that you could use only in low light situations it was worth the money and it works well in almost any situation. The Nikon P7100 and the G12 are cameras that for me only perform well in good light , kept my G12 a long time even with many design and performance flaws, and they are not cheap.
Funny that when other cameras produce an oval shaped white thing the name is flare.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 22, 2012)

"If you spent $600 on a tv and certain channels had white specks all over the picture would you be happy and see nothing wrong as long as you didn't watch those channels? "

Max would. As long as it had FUji on the label.

0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 22, 2012)

Stungun,

The fact that the orbs don't always appear and don't bother you doesn't change the fact that the camera is defective. If you're fine with the camera the way it is great, but don't act like those who spent $600 on a camera only to find the orbs in their photos and those who expect better from such an expensive product don't have a legitimate complaint.

0 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Feb 24, 2012)

Complaining about this is about equal to complaining about a camera having 10,000,000 (exaggeration) ISO which is completely useless and produces images so noisy that the only things you can make out in the image are tiny splotches. Most cameras have this 'feature' I don't hear anyone whinging that the camera is faulty?!

ALL cameras have weird limitations and quirks, to some extent that is the nature of photography. Is it a fault, or simply the way the sensor reacts to light in certain circumstances - much like cranking the ISO to 1 billion? If so all sensors are faulty, or certainly used beyond their limits.

0 upvotes
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 21, 2012)

In Europe faulty electronic equipment has a guarantee of 24 months.
If it's got a fault you can return for a refund.
As there's a firmware update there's a fault so why don't dissatified customers just return them?

2 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Feb 21, 2012)

Prof, let's not confuse a warranty period with a store return period for a full purchase price refund.

You may be able to send in the camera for repair for 2 years. But if they tell you there is nothing wrong with your camera, or that they cannot duplicate the problem you are experiencing, you have accomplished nothing.

The Germans are particularly masters of this trickery here in America with their car dubious value warranties.

0 upvotes
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 21, 2012)

I think by your previous posts and by all the negative posters on this thread the fault is very easy to duplicate and by releasing a firmware update to solve the problem Fuji are admitting it exists.
I assume that if the camera was bought in an American store and the owner is also American then the return store period would be long if not infinite. so not really a problem in the good ole USA, right?

1 upvote
bcalkins
By bcalkins (Feb 21, 2012)

In the few months I've had this camera, a few pictures have been ruined by the orb issue - and there is no question that this issue affects my ability to shoot at ISO100 in some daytime situations. There are a few cases in broad daylight where I've run into this problem, as well as in some night shots. In the few situations where I ran into this, I could not work around it - or didn't notice the issue until back home. In one case, for example, a backlit subject had half of their eye cut out by a hard edged disk from the back light. The image was pleasing enough and fine for web use, but it would not have held up at larger sizes. The biggest disappointment for me is that this issue means I must constantly be on guard, and turns this otherwise 'analog' camera into another piece of technology...

A quick example of blooming/orbs in action with the latest firmware: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47706598@N08/6906307173/

0 upvotes
max metz
By max metz (Feb 21, 2012)

At ISO100 Medium resolution in the PSAM modes the x10 has more than enough dynamic range to overcome any blooming characteristics, the ev compensation dial is the most robust control on the camera - use it to stop down till the blooming diminishes in the rear screen and then up the gamma in post processing to correct the exposure. The camera is a lot for the money, the caveat being that you have to put in a lot of effort to learn to use it properly - its a photographers camera. Hope this helps. :-)

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 21, 2012)

So how come some of YOUR pictures show orbs Max?

Don't bs people.

2 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

metz the fact is on a $600 P&S one SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WORK AROUND the limitations of a faulty sensor!!!

1 upvote
max metz
By max metz (Feb 21, 2012)

A couple of lack lustre canon fixed lens users judging by both your profiles, hardly exponents of informed impartial advise, I see at least one of you regularly expounding hollow wisdom about the x10 on the Fuji forum from time to time. If you don't like the x10, stick with your canon's, its not a big deal. :-)

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

metz... assumption is the mother of all fukcups and never more so than reading your comments, the fact that several review sites are getting orbs makes your point and argument moot and for the record I don't own a canon (have a NEX 5N and a D7000). Hollow wisdom indeed (look in the mirror) I say again SEVERAL REVIEW SITES GOT ORBS not me!!!!!

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 22, 2012)

Max, I own FU-ji, Canon, Panasonic, Sony and other cameras.

It just happens the X10 is the most FU of them all.

Only you can make this about fanboyism.

1 upvote
snake_b
By snake_b (Feb 21, 2012)

Hah, try to bring this up to @fujiguys and hashtag #fujifilm and #orbs and they will completely ignore it on twitter.

1 upvote
max metz
By max metz (Feb 21, 2012)

Perhaps its you they are ignoring, your handle is a little ominous. :)

0 upvotes
Marek07
By Marek07 (Feb 21, 2012)

Does anyone know how I can get Pocket Wizards(Plus 2) to work with my Fuji X10???

0 upvotes
bcalkins
By bcalkins (Feb 21, 2012)

I had the same problem and asked the question here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/1773207@N23/discuss/72157628083320777/?search=pocket+wizard

Someone suggests about half way down that they found the PW needed to be turned a little bit in the shoe... Seems to work for some and not for others. I had rented the PW so couldn't try it after the fact.

0 upvotes
Marek07
By Marek07 (Feb 21, 2012)

bcalkins.....Thanks for the info, will give it a try tomorrow!!!

0 upvotes
bcalkins
By bcalkins (Feb 21, 2012)

Not sure how much you've used the X10, but it is worth making sure the other points in that thread are followed as well:

External flash control must be set to on in the menus.
External flash will not operate in Super Macro mode.

0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

Thanks Fuji for your silence!!! it indicates your contempt and disregard for your customers...its disgraceful that you ignore the issue and unethical to try legitimise it, you deserve all the bad PR you get!!

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
1 upvote
sarkozy
By sarkozy (Feb 21, 2012)

Fuji is not silent
Fuji Japan, said: Blooming in the X10 is within the tolerances
result is: Fuji Japan claims that the X10 has no error

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

but that was only when owners were finding orbs and Fuji said they'll release a firmware to address the issue, which it doesn't, now the orbs have been found by review sites (the orbs are not typical of blooming) but are hard edged discs and thus are definitely not within normal tolerance for a sensor (name one other cam on the market at present that produces these types of artifacts...) and thus, now that the 'normal' has been disproved (for the last 3 weeks already) Fuji's silence has been 'head buried in the sand' definite....

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
max metz
By max metz (Feb 21, 2012)

Silence is golden Jostian, not that your own company would ever let you experience that. :-)

0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

Golden huh...so you condone the fact that Fuji is ignoring the issue, why am I not surprised that you'd make a comment like that! Do you know how stupid you sound? as to my company... pray do tell? I have a problem with Fuji selling a $600 P&S with a dodgy sensor, I'm entitled to voice my opinion in that regard. All you do is sound incompetent, I'm guessing English is not your 1st language (hope not).

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Stungun
By Stungun (Feb 21, 2012)

I've ordered the Fuji X10 and the Nikon P7100. I have also the G12 . The G12 is better than the P7100 and both are much, much inferior to the X10. I knew about the orbs but after reading so many angry comments and seeing the pictures I decided to give it a try. I managed to produce white orbs and black orbs as well as blacked areas but it's easy to fix and now I know how to avoid those specific situations when they might happen. I have some pictures where the problem appear and the next pictures not, after adjustments. Velvia color tend to produce then more, EXR modes (excellent) may solve it , increasing ISO a little bit too, and it's better after update. This camera has DSLR quality (bokeh and ISO) and the lens alone are worth the price. Excellent camera.
I have a magazine with a photo of a 80 ft Ferreti yacht in an advertisement and I found a white orb on a chrome plated rail !!
It's my first Fuji, if this was a faulty Canon (had many) would the fuss be the same ?

2 upvotes
deeohuu
By deeohuu (Feb 21, 2012)

Of course it would be the same or worse with a Canon. Were you paying attention when the 5D II came out? Which Canon defect was not addressed one way or another? Canon tried to do the right thing for their customers; they didn't rely on apologists telling people about ways to work around or avoid the defects. And blooming in the X10 is a defect, nothing less, no matter if there are obscure and limiting ways to work around it or not. No one should have to second guess the camera whether or not they should use workaround a or workaround b for the scene in front of them and hope for the best.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Alfie Smith
By Alfie Smith (Feb 21, 2012)

Here's is one who likes to burn money, lol !

1 upvote
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

X10 better than the P7100?? how... cos the X10 can produce orbs and the others not... IQ wise (up to 800 iso) they are almost identical (check the reviews), high iso wise the X10 is cleaner but loses more fine detail, both are well built, the P7100 has more manual control options and a longer optical zoom and higher res LCD but the X10 has full HD, faster lens and better viewfinder... I think they are close depending on what you need. But no one NEEDS orbs so I reckon more people would get a P7100 or G12 G1X than the X10 right now, until Fuji fix the sensors!!!

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 21, 2012)

Another apologist for Fuji.

Yes, I can avoid orbs too. But only by taking out ANOTHER camera in situations I need to shoot where the X10 will let me down.

So no night shots in Paris, Prague, Barcelona, or Hong Kong because I will either have to underexpose it to obscurity, boost the grain so the noise levels look like a snowstorm, or get orbs.

And no, you have NOT seen orbs in a magazine. What you have seen is flare. This claim has come up time after time, and it's always disproved when the actual "evidence" is there.

3 upvotes
iangl
By iangl (Feb 21, 2012)

Reg Natarajan, your picture of Vancover art gallery is an example of White orbs, at its worst, but please do not try and convince people it is OK-- Fuji have made a mistake with this sensor and its associated hardware.

1 upvote
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 21, 2012)

Gary,
Do you still own this camera or have you returned it for a refund?
I thought electronic products were guaranteed for 24 months?

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 22, 2012)

Not in Asia they are not.

Particularly when the manufacturer says they are performing within tolerances.

0 upvotes
abortabort
By abortabort (Feb 24, 2012)

@ Jostian - You sound like a complete tw@t! I have been reading through this thread and EVERY SINGLE TIME someone who OWNS an X10 bascially says, 'nah the camera is good, I don't really have issues with it' you turn around saying 'but reviewers find orbs - you must be an idiot!' over and over again! To me that is the pure definition of an a$$hole. Do you own an X10? No? then SHUT THE F#@% UP! If users of the X10 are happy with their camera, who are you to try and convince them that their camera is a broken, useless paperweight? Seriously? And your entitlement of opinion - well it isn't really YOUR opinion is it? I mean spouting about reviewers who have used the camera like that makes you an expert does it?

Point is if someone is happy with THEIR X10, let them be happy with it! If someone is not happy with THEIR X10 because of the 'orb issue', then feel free to rally behind them in getting a resolution from Fuji. Do NOT be a bullsh*# armchair expert punk.

0 upvotes
lightandday
By lightandday (Feb 21, 2012)

FUJI WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR _ FIX IT NOW !

2 upvotes
max metz
By max metz (Feb 21, 2012)

I imagined your capitals will make all the difference, it expresses that some children too are incensed by the blooming characteristics of the little x10. :-)

0 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 21, 2012)

EVERYONE IS INCENSED, & RIGHTLY SO!!!

0 upvotes
Reg Natarajan
By Reg Natarajan (Feb 21, 2012)

After reading all the fuss, I went looking for orbs last night. I found a few. The handful of orbs in my pictures appeared from relatively intense artificial lighting which would blow highlights on most cameras. Speaking purely for myself, the orbs didn't bother me at all. If you think they ruined my pictures and that Fujifilm is the devil incarnate for having them, well, fine. I tend not to get worked up over small things.

Here's a link to my photo shoot on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=x10&m=tags&w=61266278%40N00&d=taken-20120217-&ss=2&ct=0&mt=all&adv=1&z=e

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't get "worked up" over consistent IQ when I am discussing politics, starvation, mortality, or a dozen other things.

I DO get a little more focused on IQ when I am discussing my faulty camera sensor, and the fact that its manufacturer is treating its customers with indifference bordering on contempt.

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
Alfie Smith
By Alfie Smith (Feb 21, 2012)

This is spam.

0 upvotes
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 21, 2012)

Just a thought.
Has any of the posters complaining about this camera brought this to the attention of consumer associations?
Also, if someone's bought it and believes there's a problem there's a 2 year guarantee on electronic products so as long as you've got proof of purchase take it back to the shop for a refund.
Of course the posters who've never used it but who still are complaining won't have that option...because they've never used it.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 22, 2012)

People on this site are from all over the world. Those two year guarantees do not apply in many parts of it, including where I am.

I could send it in, over and over again, for a "fix". But I can't return it.

0 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Feb 20, 2012)

The " before and after firmware update " always makes me laugh when i need one.

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 20, 2012)

Many ask, Fuji will be explained

Sorry, Fuji has explained: it is blooming in the tolerance range.
I almost died laughing, but that's the statement from Fuji Japan

1 upvote
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 20, 2012)

DP when the true X-10 review come out? Since Sep 2011. till now. Hundreds of people are waiting. What are we waiting for?

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 20, 2012)

At this point, what more do you need to know? I agree they should have done it by now but the review will say the camera is an excellent performer except for the orbs. You can go to a site like Flickr and see (frankly) better photos than what accompanies a DPR test and there are even a few photos that show the orbs. Still, I wish DPR would publish their review so I can move on, and start complaining about moire with the D800E that I only noticed after the return period had passed.

0 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 20, 2012)

In-depth review, is always a in-depth review. Regardless what possible opinions of each one. This camera has the same right to be reviewed as any other, still being a camera that so much opinion and anticipation has created, by happy fans, sad and others ...
Obviously the review won't focus simply on their "special effects" that this camera is able to produce, but also on good qualities that this camera has. The reviews must be for both the good and the less good, to be impartial. imo.

3 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 20, 2012)

I think that from now on the Fuji will have difficulty selling the EXR sensor product to someone who is minimally informed about this fail.

4 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

The EXR sensors work great (without producing white discs) in the F and HS series cameras.

The white disc problem is unique to the X10, which uses a larger sensor than the others, and a uniquely different design.

By all means avoid EXR sensor cameras, but I can't wait for the next X10 (or its updated model) - the camera's general imaging and handling abilities are exceptional for something so small. I feel great using it, because white discs simply do not pop up unexpectedly in my style of shooting.

BTW I shoot all sorts of "normal" scenes: buildings, people (lots of people shots), exteriors, cars, motorcycles, gardens, parties, and so on.

I don't often shoot against the sun, but usually when I do, as long as there are no highly reflective surfaces such as a shiny car or glass, I won't get white discs.

I don't take long exposures at night against street lights and the like. I still shoot frequently at night, inside and out, but don't get white discs in my images.

I'm happy!

2 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (Feb 20, 2012)

I am glad that there are people happy with the camera. Really. I am of those who expect a new version of this camera.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 20, 2012)

If your X10 made breasts look like pineapples it would not affect you as long as you did not shoot nudes.

This is not about shooting style. It's not about user error. It's not about what other cameras do. It's about a manufacturer that has made an abysmally faulty sensor and has treated its customers with nothing but contempt when they have raised it.

You can have problems shooting your kid blowing out the candles on his birthday cake, for Pete's sake, unless you make the ISO so high and the scene so noisy you might as well have bought a $50 kiddy compact to shoot it.

5 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 20, 2012)

Hello - the Fuji X-S1 also has the balls (orbs)

2 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 21, 2012)

And two screw ups from Fuji improves the situation?

1 upvote
Thomas Traub
By Thomas Traub (Feb 20, 2012)

A question to all X10- U S E R S ! ! !

- is the white-disc-Problem also shown in RAW?
- in every Mode or only in a special mode, like EXHR?
- with any ISO or only at special ISO-settings?
- please quote the serial-Nummer of your X-10 ! ! ! !

Please answer shortly. And please don't answer if you dont have your own experience with the X10 and if you only want to interpret a pic.

Maybe we are able to locate the problem on this way.

Thomas

0 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Feb 20, 2012)

- RAW and JPEG
- All modes; EXR, Auto and PASM
- Low ISO (100-800)
- 14Mnnnnn

The above is by now well established knowledge, and I doubt much more can be deducted from feedback on this survey. Serial numbers are not likely to reveal much. All X10 cameras seem to share design and components - Fujifilm has not started production of Rev. 2 cameras yet... :-|

1 upvote
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 20, 2012)

From Imaging Resource,
Overexposure "Blooming"
A final limitation of CCD sensors is their reaction to severe illumination overloads. This is the reason for including a shiny pot lid in the Dave Box targets on the Imaging Resource website, because it reflects light sources back into the camera lens. In the face of extremely high light overloads, some CCDs will "leak" charge from the overexposed elements into adjacent cells. This phenomenon is called blooming, and various methods are employed to prevent it. It most frequently shows itself as a colored fringe around specular (shiny) highlights. Frequently, the sensor will bloom differently in each of the red, green or blue channels, producing the colored fringes where one channel has bloomed more than the others. The impact of this for your particular work will depend on its nature. If you intend to photograph a lot of chromed auto parts, blooming could be a big problem. It would be a complete non-issue in photos of bath towels.

1 upvote
tem00
By tem00 (Feb 20, 2012)

X10 is CMOS, not CCD

0 upvotes
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 20, 2012)

Quite right.
My comment serves no purpose regarding this discussion.
How do I remove it?
Thks in advance.

0 upvotes
tem00
By tem00 (Feb 20, 2012)

still useful. why dont u leave it? Who knows, Fuji might have some kind of EXR/Super CCD EXR hybrid thing going on here.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Pasha001
By Pasha001 (Feb 20, 2012)

CCD generally exhibit somewhat different kind of blooming that looks like streaks. CMOS is considered more resilient to this problem. However, I can see something very similar to Fuji glitches in some photos from my phone Nokia N8 that has a CMOS sensor.

0 upvotes
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 20, 2012)

There's a lot of speculation on this thread about what's causing the problem but none of these posters actually know, do they? Let's hope Fuji explain soon.

By the way when everyone's finally finished with the orbs you can move onto the following,
"The image area with high brightness might be recorded as "black-out" area, just in case of dedicated shooting condition, This unpleasant phenomenon is improved."

From latest firmware update.

1 upvote
Pasha001
By Pasha001 (Feb 20, 2012)

> Let's hope Fuji explain soon.
But Fuji has explained a long time ago: "The blooming issue is something not uncommon to many types of digital camera". Just poor blooming protection, that's all.

3 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

Some people (that is, under certain conditions) explerience black highlights when blooming occurs.

It's rare.

Bear in mind that I have never had blooming or white discs "destroy" or even damage (in my eyes) an image that I wanted.

Some of us simply don't shoot in a way which produces or highlights the problem. But note that the camera is completely unsuitable for those who do shoot in that way.

2 upvotes
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 20, 2012)

Just googled 'Canon 5D Mark II problems' and 'Leica M9 problems'.

How long did they take to resolve the problems? Did they?

Some people on some sites went on a witchhunt and some defended the product exactly as now with the X10. I believe these companies didn't close down or go bankrupt.

Yet I believe people kept buying the cameras and they cost a lot more than the X10.

I guess if it doesn't hindersome people's enjoyment of the camera they'll keep on buying and using the X10.

Does this excuse shoddy workmanship? Of course not.

The problem exists. The firmware update released is meant to,
"Blooming (White disk) phenomena, which can be observed in EXR AUTO mode, is reduced."
Reduce is not to eliminate.

1 upvote
snake_b
By snake_b (Feb 20, 2012)

It's not even reduced, by DPR's accounts, nor by user accounts on the forum.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 20, 2012)

Why would you Google those things except as an apologia for Fuji?

Why would they fix my white orbs?

And yes Canon DID fix the 5D MkII problem as they have fixed other hardware faults of their OWN making, for free.

They also did not scoff at their users and ignore their concerns.

4 upvotes
vaper
By vaper (Feb 20, 2012)

So many are missing the point when they attempt to advance the argument by claiming that the ORBs haven't been a problem for THEM in the type of photos that THEY take. That would be akin to claiming that a car that has a fuel pump that fails when driving up hills greater than "x" degrees is not defective because its only driven in Iowa.

No camera, be it a p&s, a DSLR or whatever, should be so shackled as the X10 is.

5 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 22, 2012)

No. That is the point. If I was someone who I am not, and I took photos that I don't take, I might get these orbs. Shot a sunset tonight, blew the highlights, pegged the histogram, still no orbs. The orbs look horrible and if I did have them I would expect Fuji to deal with the problem, although not quickly since it appears they will have to develop and test a new sensor.

0 upvotes
craigferguson
By craigferguson (Feb 20, 2012)

I bought this camera and I do like it but I don't want a flaw in it (ie) white blob. However night shooting is not where I would be using this. Should I send back to Amazon. I have 6 days to make my decision. Any advice from the people on here that know much much more than me would be appreciated. I am somewhat of a noobie when it comes to photogaraphy. Thanks everybody!
Craig

0 upvotes
deeohuu
By deeohuu (Feb 20, 2012)

Night shooting is only the easy test. There are a host of other situations that will manifest the problem. If you take pictures in the summer of sunlit water expect a sea of ping pong balls to replace the sparkling water. Do you want to be constantly asking yourself if the scene is X10 rated?

I sent mine back to Amazon.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
leorolim
By leorolim (Feb 20, 2012)

Sunlight between tree branches is where I first found a huge white ball... :(

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Feb 20, 2012)

Getting your money back is a privilege you want to exercise. There are places in this world you cannot return the goods and if Fuji won't admit it is a problem, the cam will not be repaired even under warranty.

That's about 1/3 of the story. The resale value of X10 is now close to zero as well.

The last 1/3 is that the Fuji's position toward this problem is that it is rare. If this is the case in 1 out of 100 cams, it would not cost a lot of money to have it recalled or fixed. Fuji logic does not hold and borders on fraud.

1 upvote
Rachotilko
By Rachotilko (Feb 20, 2012)

There might come something positive out of this in the future. If Fuji goes bankrupt, their honeytomb sensor layout and EXR technologies will not be exclusively owned by single company.

0 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

My X10 works fine.

I can produce white disc images if I want to, but my photographic style does not normally include shooting into the sun, or against highly reflective surfaces, or long exposures at night.

I have 3500 properly exposed images which don't show any white discs. I have some inconcspicuous discs and minor blooming on other shots which in no way reduce my enjoyment of those images.

No one I have shown those images to (apart from some dpreview posters) has noticed anything untoward. It simply is not a problem in normal use, for me.

I have several dozen images which do show white discs or blooming in a major way because I specifically tried to get that effect.

While it might be a problem for some, it is not a problem for me. I look forward to Fuji's next, similar camera, which I will happily perchase as an "early adopter."

I knew about the white disc problem before I bought my X10 at the beginning of November, so I have no excuse to be disappointed. I'm not.

3 upvotes
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 20, 2012)

the fact that one has to 'avoid' the orbs by virtue of a range of settings etc is in itself a problem... as it shows that the sensor is faulty and this fault needs to be 'worked' around. Nothing against your post, as you say you are quite happy using the X10 despite its dodgy sensor and that's fine, but the sensor shouldn't be faulty in the first place... not on a $600 P&S!!

5 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Feb 20, 2012)

Trevor,

You state that your "X10 works fine", but it does in fact have the exact same flaw as all other X10's. I have not heard of indications that different revisions of the camera exist or seen documentation that the flaw is distributed randomly throughout the produced cameras.

You knew about the issue and you made a balanced choice (like me). And given your way of shooting, you have not been affected and appear to get decent photos from the X10 - I will not sift through your shots to find your orbs (but others will). You are likely to be attacked for this, as many believe Fujifilm does not deserve any content customers or business at all for that matter.

But even you could gain by having the flaw corrected; no fear of orbs, confidence in the camera and trust in Fujifilm. I am glad you also get much fun out the X10, but it is important not to ignore this flaw and just willingly accept that it performs under par. We need to keep pressure up on Fujifilm, as this can not be excused.

2 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Feb 20, 2012)

Patient: "Doctor, I have this sharp pain in my chest when I cough."

Doctor: "Then don't cough."

Would you be happy with that?

4 upvotes
ChrisKramer1
By ChrisKramer1 (Feb 20, 2012)

Not if I smoke :-D

0 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

For Jostian:

I have never claimed " that one has to 'avoid' the orbs by virtue of a range of settings."

That is your oft-repeated claim and you are wrong.

I shoot with settings which are appropriate for the situation, almost always DR400 in PASM at ISO100, or occasioanlly the Pro Low Light mode.

I shoot RAW+ unless I am in a mode which cannot shoot RAW.

None of those settings are "special", although the way Fuji executes DR400 is quite amazing and gives around 2.7EV of sensor headroom in RAW.

The problem comes from shooting highly reflective surfaces against the sun, sometimes bright lights, and long exposures at night. That style of shooting doesn't really interest me (or many other people as well) but if that keeps you from buying an X10, so be it.

1 upvote
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

For Dennis

I'm happy with my X10 and am not really worried at all if Fuji never fix my particular camera.

I'm sure they will get the next model working right, but even if they didn't I will still be a keen purchaser because they are almost uniquely innovative in this field of bland camera design, features and output.

Please feel free to pursue Fuji to your heart's content - I have no need to do so. Even if they recalled the cameras and offered a full refund I would still keep mine. That's how good it is in my eyes.

0 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

For T3

I don't have a cough.

I suggest that anyone who does have a persistent cough see their doctor.

The X10 is not mandatory to life and health, so if you don't like it, get rid of it.

0 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Feb 20, 2012)

Trevor,

Like you, I truly like this camera, and enjoy handling and shooting with it - rarely affected by the flaw (unless I really try hard - and I know how to do it by now).

And just to put things right; I do NOT want a refund, I want the X10 camera! I wouldn't mind the X10 Mk. II version, but the one I got performs and is quite a capable camera. But what I would really like to see, was a little more responsiveness from Fujifilm on this type of camera. They still need to put a little more effort into dealing with customers...

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 20, 2012)

Trevor, then you have lower standards than many of us when it comes to expectations of a camera manufacturer. That's why so many "refurbished" X10s are going on sale already.

0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 21, 2012)

If you spent $600 on a tv and certain channels had white specks all over the picture would you be happy and see nothing wrong as long as you didn't watch those channels? Would you tell the people who did watch those channels "My tv works fine" with the implication that there's no problem with the tv? Or would you consider the product defective?

0 upvotes
Acrill
By Acrill (Feb 22, 2012)

Big whoop, this thread is not about you.

0 upvotes
cesaregal
By cesaregal (Feb 20, 2012)

"Blooming (white disk) phenomena can be observed in EXR AUTO mode".
Owners, have you seen blooming phenomena in PSAM modes too?

0 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Feb 20, 2012)

WDS or orbs can be seen in all modes (regardsless of firmware communication from Fujifilm), including PASM modes. It does n ot seem to be related to "sophisticated" EXR image processing. The phenomena is signficantly more visible (when occuring) with low ISO settings (100-800). Hope this clears the matter for you.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

Yes, absolutely.

It does not depend on mode. It depends entirely on shooting style.

0 upvotes
sankos
By sankos (Feb 20, 2012)

"It depends entirely on shooting style" -- this kind of wording seems to suggest the sole cause of the white discs is one's shooting style. My understanding is that the primary cause is faulty sensor technology, and not the user error. Can you reproduce white discs with any other camera that doesn't use this sensor?

3 upvotes
Dennis
By Dennis (Feb 20, 2012)

The White Disc Syndrom, WDS, is specific to the sensor (and possibly image processor combination) used in the X10 and to some extend also the X-S1 (sharing this platform). The phenomena is by no means caused by user error, it IS a design flaw. In fact, only human intervention, e.g. avoiding low ISO settings, high local contrast or shiny objects, is required to avoid the orbs. Any talk of human error is false and the opposite is true, the X10 performs well when skilled users operate the camera. In this way, most shots turn out well "depending on shooting style" (long exposure night shots, shiny stuff and so on)...

Comment edited 24 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Jolly Oly
By Jolly Oly (Feb 20, 2012)

""It depends entirely on shooting style" -- this kind of wording seems to suggest the sole cause of the white discs is one's shooting style. My understanding is that the primary cause is faulty sensor technology, and not the user error."

Of course. But if your primary subject is dry leaf on the grass or dog/cat on a wooden terrace the chances that you would get an ORB are pretty slim. It looks like some, if not all of the X10 defenders uses similar subjects and then claim orb free pictures (only 4 in 2500 bs), but the truth is an "orb free-iso100-broad daylight-light source/reflective surface-full size picture" is very hard to find. For most of us with "take it everywhere & shoot everything" approach the X10 is more less useless..

0 upvotes
Matt1645f4
By Matt1645f4 (Feb 20, 2012)

Fuji have had many issues over the years with sensors, the F700 was a great camera in it's time and i couldn't get enough in stock to keep up with demand, unfortunately 18 months later about 80% started to come back with sensor issues, which at first Fuji dismissed before eventually accepting it as a problem and having to replace the sensors. Then there was the problems with the veiwing screens on the S2000HD which when ever shooting near a light source turned the screen blue and impossible to use anything other than Auto, again Fuji denied the problem before issuing a firmware update which didn't solve the problem, now the X10 and its Orbs and other problems.
I love Fuji cameras and have owned and used many of them over the years but i'm no longer prepared to take a risk on owning one. Fuji really needs to get it's act togeher as they are starting to lose customers, and are fast becoming a joke of a manufacturer, Kodak have already left the market how long before Fuji go the same way?

1 upvote
Jostian
By Jostian (Feb 20, 2012)

Quote from DCReviews X10 Review Conclusion: *That brings us to photo quality, which is the area in which the X10 needs the most improvement. On the positive side, exposure is usually accurate, colors are saturated, and purple fringing levels are low. Redeye is well-controlled, but only if the camera detects a face in the scene and uses its digital removal system. The camera's biggest problems are jaggies, highlight clipping, and the occasional white disc/orb. The white disc issue won't appear often, but when it does, you'll certainly notice. My view is that this is due to a flaw in the sensor design, and that it will not be fixed. The last few Fuji compacts I tested had some questionable quality control, and with the X10 I'm starting to wonder what's going on over in Japan. As I mentioned earlier, for those of you set on the X10, make sure you buy it from a store with a nice return policy, in case the white orbs (or highlight clipping) becomes unbearable*

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (Feb 20, 2012)

So one big problem to you is that the system doesn't remove red-eye well?

About highlight clipping--never quite sure what "clipping" means though--that seems more serious. But then I'd ask does this clipping happen when shooting both RAW and JPEG?

Re: Orbs, well yes if someone thinks that a serious problem but doesn't own the X10, I don't imagine that someone would be buying the X10--store return policy or no.

Also DPReview has not posted a review of the X10, so there would be no "conclusion" for you to cite.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Trevor G
By Trevor G (Feb 20, 2012)

Highlight clipping by itself does not produce white disks or blooming.

You need to be shooting a highly reflective scene, or into the sun, or long exposures at night with lights in view.

I have plenty of highlight-clipped images with no sign of discs or blooming, because they were not shot in the conditions (mentioned above) which produce discs or blooming.

0 upvotes
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