Fujifilm X10 firmware: Appears not to fix 'white orbs' : Digital Photography Review

Yes - there is a problem and Fuji should not try to hide behind the "blooming" statements.
Normal would be if all FUJI X10 calls back and installed a new sensor.
Only - they do not have the new sensor for the X10 to time
It is my first camera in 35 years where the biggest challenge is to avoid the ORBS.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Reply I received from Fujifilm UK.....

Thank you for contacting Fujifilm UK,

Fujifilm head office in Tokyo have investigated the issue which you mention and have concluded that the camera is working within prescribed tolerances, bearing in mind that blooming is not uncommon in digital photography.

However, after receiving a number of comments from users, they understand their concern and are planning a firmware upgrade to lessen the effects of blooming. This will be announced in due course when the update is available.

Hope this information helps.

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

we already had the FW update (1.03) and it does nothing to address the issue... see here http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=4467

0 upvotes

I received this message this morning, so it sounds like they are planning a further update.
...although I don't buy the... 'camera is working within prescribed tolerances'...comment!!

0 upvotes

So, by their admission, orbs are 'within prescribed tolerances'. :)

0 upvotes

Not the first time they've used the old... 'camera is working within prescribed tolerances'...comment!! I'm trying to cancel my order for the X10 as i've had enough of Fuji :(

0 upvotes

Marek07, would it be possible for you to have your contact confirm, that is indeed a new firmware version and not just the existing no-good version 1.03?

0 upvotes

Dennis, I contacted Fujifilm UK,
They gave me a query tracking number so I guess am gonna have to wait....

0 upvotes

If the manufacturer refuses to admit the problem, the ONLY way is to take the camera to the shop. IF they come out with a firmware fix later, you can always buy it again - at much a lower price I suspect. Do not keep the camera hoping for fix - that's the mistake most Pentax K-r users did, and Pentax never admitted nor fixed the front focus problem.

0 upvotes

And FUJI, still silent!!! lets see for how long....the longer, the worse it gets for them but I wonder if A) they don't care or, B) they really don't care?? that is the question..

1 upvote

SO, in light of this can we now FINALLY have a full X10 review so we can judge what sort of issue this is in use and whether on balance it is a deal-breaker?

2 upvotes

No used x10's on Ebay! Why?

0 upvotes

Because there's plenty of them selling secondhand and refurbished at Amazon and Fujifilm UK

Look here:
http://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/refurbished-digital-cameras/fujifilm-x10-refurbished.html

19 refurbished cameras, for a model that's only been out three months. Must be a record.

Most people, unlike Fuji, are too ethical to sell them on, so they return them. They are then sold as "open box" or "refurbished".

In fact, according to some who have bought them, many retailers are selling "open box" X10s that aren't even "open". They just offload them.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Amazon US are offering 19 new from $599.00, 12 used from $416.14

After just three months.

1 upvote

Amazon sells also 10 Nikon V1 and J1 used after 3 months. So what?

1 upvote

Because eBay sellers are very concerned about their rating. I would never sell a defective item such as any X10 because in the long term it could prove very costly.

0 upvotes

I have admit that I went out with the sole purpose to produce an image that demonstrated the white orbs in daylight. These are highlights of sunshine reflected from the grille.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7742853605/photos/1756227/dscf0956

4 upvotes

Those are horrendous. So I can't take pics when reflected light could be expected, along with not being able to take pics at concerts. Wonderful.

1 upvote

.....Maybe DP Review should make 'THE ORBS' as one of there image challenges!!

0 upvotes

Getting them is no challenge. Avoiding them is.

2 upvotes

That looks very terrible. From Fuji, they suggested it is caused by a larger aperture but from this image, it is not. it does happen with point light sources.
I don't see any way to fix unless under exposing very much.
And here I thought, Sigma cameras were quirky. With my DP2, instead of orbs, I get multiple pointed stars which looks good.

0 upvotes

Those highlights are shaped like the Ford badge and almost as large.

0 upvotes

Bear in mind:
This is a primarily a viewfinder “street camera”.
As such it will very seldom used to photograph burnt out highlights.
Low light wide aperture street photographs will use a higher ISO and background out of focus orbed highlights will consequently be ameliorated.
The essence of the subject matter will never be subservient to background highlights –“orbed” or otherwise.
Scene and landscape photographers should use another camera if orbs offend them and should leave street photographers to enjoy the fantastic X10!

0 upvotes

Bear in mind:
This is not a "street photography only" camera, people can use it for whatever style of photography they enjoy, even landscapes and whatnot. If you're happy with your defective piece of equipment, rejoice. Others are not, and rightfully so. If it's defective, it's defective, and for the price tag buyers can expect to use the camera for whatever they want to capture.

8 upvotes

skyfotos, rubbish.

Do you have any idea how many times Fuji uses the term "Professional" in its promotion materials?

Professional my posterior. You can't even shoot in many shopping malls with it because the lights blow out. Pathetic.

http://g2.img-dpreview.com/B8B4583D2924473A8CDAB1F80B9CC1C2.jpg

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

3 upvotes

Well of course! That's why Fuji is coming out with labels for these cameras that say, "Not for scenic and landscape photography" and "Not for stopped-down shooting" and various other labels that are necessary *warnings* to potential users who might be shooting unauthorized subject matter.

0 upvotes

skyfotos... you are funny, seriously, I hope you were joking with what you said?? cos if not you need more help than fuji does. A camera with a faulty sensor is ok for street photography... huh, the sensor is faulty PERIOD, on a $600 P&S camera that's unacceptable!!

0 upvotes

But it's not defective, it's the first camera designed for paranormal shooting which is sensitive enough to pick up the visitors from the other side!

0 upvotes

"The essence of the subject matter will never be subservient to background highlights –'orbed' or otherwise."

Actually, the problem with the orbs is that they become distractions, which *does* make the subject matter subservient to the background highlights! Plus, these orbs can also appear in the foreground too!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Fuji is probably going to take the X10 as a loss and hope to rebound with the X- Pro 1. Sad, but could be true.

2 upvotes

How does something like this happen? I mean really, how does such quality leave the door? I guess they were in a huge rush for some reason. Pity really.

3 upvotes

Just look at the forum and the defense of the WDS. People even rationalize why they are a good thing. So fuji has no motivation to do better and here we are.

4 upvotes

This is what white disc (orbs) looks like. It is really terrible. My X10 serial number is 14A10xxx. If the defect is from hardware sensor, how to fix it by firmware upgrade?

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/5933255553/photos/1755948/dscf0513

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

"We screwed up a camera sensor and scoffed at buyers who noticed it but at least we're not starving children/terrorists/earthquakes."

Is that REALLY the new slogan of Fuji and its apologists for lousy design and manufacturing?

This is a camera site.

There are starving children/terrorist/earthquake sites. They are discussed there. Cameras are discussed here.

5 upvotes

Every camera, like any piece of equipment, has its limitations. You can accept limitations and work within its parameters. Defects, whether in the nature of design defects or manufacturing defects are unacceptable no matter how you slice it. It doesn't matter how well the camera functions other than when it demonstrates the defect. I am an owner of an X10 since October. I love the solid feel of the camera, the color it produces and a number of its other fine qualities. But still it is a defective piece of equipment and, as such, there is no excusing Fujifilm for failing to take whatever steps are necessary to correct the defect. Recall, repair or replace the faulty hardware. Shame on them for failing to take aggressive action in this regard.

13 upvotes

Oh, Fujifilm... They still in business? What on Earth for, I wonder?

0 upvotes

FUJI will they survive Mr. Carver - definitely

1 upvote

They may survive.

But they are NEVER going to sucker at least some of us X10 owners again.

7 upvotes

Today I shot a picture of ice parts on our gardenpond. I've experienced orbs and one orb even had an extra bright blue circle around it.

Shot at 1/160th, 28,4 focal length. I can't find the ISO on the Mac and I already erased the original from the SD card., but is was ISO 400 or lower. It was shot in P-mode.

I'm going to check with the shop where I bought my X10. I'm seriously thinking of returning it and look around for a replacement.
Low light AF is also below expectation. Even taking handheld outdoor pictures in wintery overcast conditions was very hard to do. I don't really know why this camera is supposed to be good in low light conditions. I really hope I have a bad example because I really like its looks and way of operating. But it hasn't convinced me picture wise.

I could call myself a Fuji fan, but with this kind of quality it's not possible to call myself a fan.

Edit: Firmware 1.03

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

Sorry - I can not agree

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Hier sind die Kugeln! In the very first photo, the light bulbs them selves do not become orbs, but the glowing wires take the form of "white worms" - this photo is in the gray zone, I would say, but shot at ISO 200, it is a strong candidate. For the rest of this otherwise very nice photo series, the orb issue is nicely addressed by high ISO (as suggested by Fujifilm) and hereby eliminates the sharp edges orbs. Nice shots...

0 upvotes

you mean this from @ sarkozy:

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/6127154653/photos/1754797/wm003

0 upvotes

Here it would then also be ORBS - on the water, etc.?

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/648896439/photos/1729588/w22a

0 upvotes

Exactly! You can indeed get fairly nice lowlight photos with some highlights if you just avoid low ISO - and I am not defending Fujifilm or denying the orbs (they are real); the combination of avoiding low ISO and the brilliant fast X10 optics just doesn't make sense...

0 upvotes

I think, for ISO 200 and "ORBS problem" looks good

0 upvotes

Rusticus, one person without tuberculosis doesn't mean tuberculosis does not exist.

One image without orbs does not mean the orbs problem does not exist.

It really isn't very complicated.

1 upvote

I can't help but wonder on how many of the people that comment here on the X-10 issue do in fact own one or just simply have nothing else to do than to bad talk a great product that indeed might get people to look at cameras other than Canon and Nikon.

2 upvotes

MWorsdorfer:

I can't help ask why it's necessary to own something to comment upon that thing.

Comment: The Fuji X10 orbs problem appears to be a serious drawback to that camera.

Comment: Magenta and cyan banding at 1600ASA is a serious drawback to the Sigma SD1, but at least the price has gone down.

Comment: There aren't enough native lenses for the Sony Nex cameras.

Comment: The Leica M9 is too expensive for a camera which really can't shoot beyond about ISO1000.

Even though I own none of those cameras (though happen to have handled them and have RAW files from all of them), I feel perfectly free to post the above comments.

I could go on.

5 upvotes

U r right. This is the reason why I still did not return x10 till now.

0 upvotes

Totally follow you on this one! It appears many people complain about the product without owning it. Which lead me onto something else; how com people never update the Gear List in their profile - it seems like no one really own a camera!

And as for spare time for posting comments; I was to busy during the afternoon shooting with my X10...

0 upvotes

'A great product' that on 5 review sites produces orb's!! a $600 P&S with a faulty sensor and its just 'bad talk'...seriously!!

1 upvote

Well well i guess i should really sell my X-10 then. After such expert advise. Because it must be really defect as it doesn't show these " orps " in my images.

0 upvotes

The lucky ones amongst us do not own a Fujifilm X10 camera. Was this helpful, MWorsdorfer?

The Fuji X10 is a "great product?" You say so -- and who else? You must be into defective cameras for pain or pleasure or whatever.

"it doesn't show these " orps " in my images."

Well, that's reassuring to know. No orps. But does it show any white ORBS or white DISCS instead, I wonder?

@ Dennis: "It appears many people complain about the product without owning it."

That is correct. You may call them the privileged, fortunate class. You know -- the proverbial 99 percent.

"it seems like no one really own a camera!"

That is correct, Dennis! Nobody else here owns a camera! Only you own a camera! You are the only one!

0 upvotes

I own it. I wish I did not. Satisfied?

0 upvotes

Oh, and regarding that: "Because it must be really defect as it doesn't show these " orps " in my images."

It may not, but it WILL show ORBS eventually.

0 upvotes

I was NOT giving advice!! I was stating a fact, the X10 produces orbs as found in 4 separate reviews and hundreds of photos in the forum!! what you do with your X10 is up to you, but I think its important for prospective buyers to know that the sensor is faulty (on a $600 P&S)...

0 upvotes

I got my x10 two weeks ago. I DID see the orbs lot even after fw upgraded to 1.03. This is big concern and I am still not sure if I should return it within 1 month.

If I return it, what is other best option? X100?

Comment edited 60 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

Olympus EP-3 is probably the nearest thing to it. It has received very good reviews and has some really nice prime lenses.

1 upvote

Thanks for reply. But I want non-interchangeable P&S.

0 upvotes

Canon G1X, if you insist.

0 upvotes

LAOGUN:

How important is shooting up to ISO800 to you, because in RAW the Panasonic LX5 will do that well (as long as you use Adobe Camera Raw for extraction and ignore the awful Silkypix software which comes with the Panasonic)? Then there's the Canon S95 or wait and see how well the Canon G1X performs.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

From look & feel point of view, X10 is the best. There is no perfect product in the world.
I own D200 and will upgrade to D800 soon. So the white disc issue will be out of question.

1 upvote

From look & feel point of view, it's fun.

From look at pictures point of view, in my opinion, it's pretty awful.

1 upvote

Since my last post went up to the character limit:

NB: I’d like to know if those seeing orbs in their photos are shooting exclusively jpeg or only RAW, or does the problem occur with both file types?

0 upvotes

Orbs appear in both JPEG and RAW files pointing towards a sensor flaw or possibly some unexpected behavior from the image processors in the very basic handling of the image data. No expert on this. And no indications from Fujifilm on this leads us into such guessing. A bit odd, but X10 video does not seem to suffer from orbs.

However, the scenarios leading to orbs is now quite well defined (in part thanks to massive feedback from the X10 user base). In general low ISO (below 400-800), a lowlight scene and strong highlights seems to be a certain recipe for forming orbs. But also well exposed daylight pictures with strong reflections in glass, water and metal will trigger this phenomena.

It is my perception that the issue is of a generic nature for all X10's - there is nothing such as a good X10 or bad X10. They all share the same design and production batch of sensors and processors...

2 upvotes

I've wondered why the X10 does not produce orbs in video as well. I would like to hear from someone on the technical aspects of this. My summary of the X10 is a camera with great build quality, lovely jpeg color, fantastic macro/super macro performance but an obviously flawed sensor that does produce orbs regardless of what any one says to the contrary.

1 upvote

What's the video resolution? I'd guess it's averaging the exposure from a number of sensor sites which would reduce or eliminate the blooming effect.

0 upvotes

For those who claim to both own the Fuji X10 and have shot at least a few thousand photos without any orb (aka disc) trouble: Seriously, provide some links to full sized photo files for download that you think ought to have orbs but don’t in fact show orbs.

If indeed the linked photos don’t show orbs, but the type, circumstances, and shooting data say that the orbs should be there, then the problem is some inconsistency in Fuji’s manufacturing and/or supplier chain–most likely hardware, not software/firmware.

That would mean that Fuji should be able to figure out how to avoid shipping more X10s without the orbs problem. (And replace free of charge the X10s with the problem.)

But those photographers claiming no orbs where there should be orbs, need to provide extensive examples of photos sans orbs.

When I first handled a demonstration X10 in October, I was really excited about the possibility of buying one, glad I didn’t run out and get one as soon as the camera shipped.

2 upvotes

No can't do. The 2/3-inch EXR sensor was developed in-house by Fuji, I understand.

They did not also develop, test, manufacture, and stock a gazillion of back-up 2/3-inch sensors in case the originals turned out to be duds, as they in fact have.

There are no sensor handy that could be used to replace the ones in the X10s and X-S1s. But if there would be -- would you really want to pay full price for such a Frankensteinized camera? I sure as heck would not.

Fujifilm could immediately RECALL all X10 and X-S1 cameras and issue full refunds to everyone affected.

If they don't do this -- X10 and X-S1 owners are going to be royally stewed in the long run.

0 upvotes

In the forum, a couple have presented a bunch of pictures with no orbs, only to reveal ... orbs.

And then stormed off in a hissy fit when others pointed them out.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=40635819

In the second picture, there's a classic hard edged orb on the right next to the "Papillon" sign. There are also two in the car headlights on the left of the white car, the one closest to it (and in the distance) the most noticeable. There's possibly another in the streetlight above them.

In the fourth, there are clear orbs in the lights, including the one in the centre, and completely erasing the metal(?) casing (kind of bands) of the lamp shade.

In the final one there's a classic hard-edged orb, WITH black outline, in fact three, to the left of the brownish car

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting

1 upvote

Francis Carver:

I was thinking replace the entire camera.

0 upvotes

GaryJP:

I'd like links to full sized files, preferably raws, including shooting data--ISO, focal length, aperture, shutter speed, and any other adjustments.

And not just a link to one file either, but many files shot in a situation which should show the orbs, but doesn't.

But I'll look at that above link too.

Comment edited 51 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Do You know the term "strange fruit".
It meant those afroamericans white lynching mobs hanged in the trees in USA.
Some of You sound like that mob. For some reason the anger provoked by a camera sounds like that mob.
While people are writing totally insane texts about something that really does not mean anything when visuality in pictures is concerned, thousands of children in Africa die of hunger every day and billions of people cannot even dream of owing a digicam. So show and use a little bit of commons sense.

0 upvotes

"There is but one fruitcake in the world. It's just that the people keep sending the same fruitcake to each other."

Johnny Carson

0 upvotes

If they dreamt about the Fuji X10 they'd wake up screaming.

0 upvotes

"visuality" really!! anyone that's uses a word like that should be scared of themselves... what the hell has world hunger got to do with a faulty sensor on a camera?? please get your contexts right, this is not the United Nations but a camera site where we talk about CAMERA's especially P&S's that costs $600 (that have faulty sensors) and produce ORB's!!!

0 upvotes

These fanatic Fujifilm of Nippon employees are getting ever so desperate in their valient defenses of the "can't do no wrong" company and vicious attacks on customers, it seems.

0 upvotes

"We screwed up a camera sensor and scoffed at buyers who noticed it but at least we're not starving children/terrorists/earthquakes."

Is that REALLY the new slogan of apologists for lousy design and manufacturing?

This is a camera site. There are starving children sites. They are discussed there.

Comment edited 13 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Oh boy, now when dpreview brought this to first page, fuji will have to do some serious damage control.
Even people who had no idea what those "orbs" are nor they would in fact normally care will start seeing them everywhere... any white patch or lens flare will now become orb and a reason to run screaming back to the store for refund... welcome to interconnected world fuji!

3 upvotes

Friend of mine has just started writing a screenplay, "Attack of the Orbs."

0 upvotes

I think many people understand the EXR sensor yet and do not know to handle it. Fuji EXR sensor is a great innovation. I love the X10 and the X100!
see you this Fotos from this Man on Flickrr - awesome X10 Fotos!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karlwmueller/

0 upvotes

You don't have to understand it to know that the camera should NOT be producing ORB's under ANY circumstances!! a $600 P&S should not have a faulty sensor and one should not have to shoot 'around' the problem...

1 upvote

Hey, Sarko, are you handling your fabulously perfect EXR sensors with a lint-free gloves or with rubber gloves? Ski gloves, maybe?

0 upvotes

See my pro lowlight photos (freehand) here:

http://www.dpreview.com/members/6127154653/galleries

where are the ORBS?

0 upvotes

If you don't get any orbs then there must be something right with it and you should ask for a refund.

1 upvote

schau dir einfach nochmal dein erstes Foto (auf dem Weihnachtsmarkt) an. In den Glühbirnen fällt es nicht auf, wenn du aber in die eckigen Lampen schaust, siehst du schöne große runde weiße Highlights (=Orbs), die da nicht hingehören.

1 upvote

7 out of 8 shots are done using high ISO (800-3200) and this is by now a well known cure - as stated by both X10 uses and Fujifilm. And as menioned in another reply, the first shot from the Christmas market, shot at ISO 200, does in fact show clear orb artifacts; the transparent light bulbs do not show the flowing wire, but rather a "white worm". I am not by any means saying this destroys the picture, and it only oes noticed because it is posted as a X10 shot in an orb related thread. Nice photos, glad to see you enjoy this photographic tool...

1 upvote

Hidden behind the noise of the high ISOs you shot at to avoid orbs.

0 upvotes

I see them.
They aren't in the light bulbs, maybe undervolted tungsten lamps used just to make a light path. Can't you see?

For what I've seen these "orbs" take place in two circumstances:
- long exposures of strong pointlike sources;
- where is the strongest reflection in an area already reflecting.
Maybe its an avalanche effect that happens in the form of a capacitive discharge on the sensor ... but here I'm guessing too much.

0 upvotes

Actually you don't need long exposures. All you need is a highlight that is outside the dynamic range of the camera at its current exposure setting. All my orbs were in short handheld shots.

0 upvotes

Kudos for this alert and the link to dcresource so we can see it. Thank you dpreview. Looking forward to your article.

Comment edited 40 seconds after posting

4 upvotes

Made in Japan, Fuji trying to save face... my oh my, how can face be saved when the whole world knows they are guilty and they still don't admit it... saving face to themselves only it seems, credibility it seems is something they are not worried about, and its been massively damaged... THE only way they can save face is to admit to and fix the problem!!

1 upvote

It's never going to happen. It's not the Japanese way.

0 upvotes

'By OneGuy (Feb 19, 2012 at 16:05:07 GMT)

What's that got to do with Fuji or discs, or orbs, Professor?

Having trouble with furballs?'

Sorry!

I was responding to an earlier off-topic post in this very comment section and just thought a rebuttal was necessary.

Apologies!

And it's not furballs, just a little problem with my orbs!

1 upvote

I think you have trouble finding the Reply button, 'ssor. That's B-

0 upvotes

Oops!
you are right!
I'm new here and still finding my feet.
Thanks for the message.
Now I've found it.

0 upvotes

I want to first thank DP for bringing this to our attention. The X10 has been on my list of cameras that I would like to purchase. If this issue is not fixed then I will certainly be excluding it. Is there any chance that you can take the same type of picture with a competitor's camera and do a direct comparison on how it "should look"?

1 upvote

You can see this

http://g1.img-dpreview.com/E7C2D1FBB253434EBDC82E9DDE9B923B.jpg

Versus this:

http://i.pbase.com/g4/49/661849/2/141586796.59wk6Tt6.jpg

0 upvotes

to GaryJp
"To get good shots from a NEX I need a good DSLR lens.

A smaller body saves me almost no weight, no space, and is not a good alternative to my DSLR."

As an example I checked the Canon 500d dimensions and weight against the Sony Nex5n.

The Canon is hardly a heavyweight yet is double that of the sony. Aside from 10mm difference in length the width and height are double that of the Sony. The Kit lenses are similar dimensions and weight with the sony again less.

You don't mention the model of camera or lens you use as a comparison or if AF is necessary for your photography.

Pop a pentax limited with a adapter with aperture control and you have a 'poor man's Leica'.

At less than half the weight of an entry level DSLR.

Check it in a side-by side-comparison on this very site.

And before making incorrect statements that some naive people may believe check your facts and don't lead people on.

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting

1 upvote

What's that got to do with Fuji or discs, or orbs, Professor?

Having trouble with furballs?

0 upvotes

And with good L glass on, instead of the fairly awful Sony glass, the body weight is a minimal part of the equation.

In fact, a small body on a good lens looks, and is operationally, ridiculous.

I looked closely at the NEX, but I don't want to complement a system with ANOTHER system, which is why I was hoping the X10 would work (it doesn't) and why I know have the G1 X.

0 upvotes

I would agree with viewing the orbs issue as being a problem for those troubled by it.

I owned the X10 for a few months and got some great black and white shots. I always used in the light of day and never had any apparent IQ bugaboos.

I think that some people are over the top in their passion and expectation of this slightly overpriced compact camera. If that disatisfied or troubled with it, sell it off and repurpose the money for a different camera.

2 upvotes

I agree. I've had little issue with orbs in thousand of shots. I don't mind people being dissatisfied with the X10.....kit's the ones who launch into a sermon against it in every thread they can.

3 upvotes

Are these bokeh balls, we're looking at? That's what they remind me of.

0 upvotes

...one rarely get to see "bokeh balls" go 255,255,255, which they do in this case. This is no optical effect adding to the aesthetic of a photo, but rather a very digital blowout effect significantly larger than the highlight causing it to appear.

0 upvotes

No. Bokeh happens with out of focus highlights. Orbs happen with IN focus highlights.

0 upvotes

this reminds me of the EOS 1D Mark III debacle. An insider told me that it's a face-saving issue with the Japanese culture, of diffilculty admitting that they messed up. I really wanted this camera based on all the specs, but now I won't buy it unless and until this problem is fully resolved. Someone once said 99% is the same as nothing. Why spend good money on something that doesn't give you great image quality all the time?

2 upvotes

I buy an M8 for 6000 dollars, the without a filter is useless. . .
or the Moire-Monster M9 für 8000 Dollar . . .

0 upvotes

Fuji says on the phone:
Professionals are satisfied with the X10. The Orbs are Result the sensor design and the high aperture of the lens
Many professionals use the ORBS consciously as a stylistic device - guys
this is the way . . .

0 upvotes

I'd like to see some actual attribution regarding those "Professionals". I'm sure Fuji can provide names, direct quotes, and perhaps links to the works of these "professionals".

As to using the ORBS consciously...So how come we didn't see much use of hard-edged white dots on digital images the past 10 or 15 years? Those would be super easy to add with almost any photo processing software.

Sarkozy -- If what you say is factual (an I have to ask that question) Fujifilm management is well beyond the cranial-rectal inversion phase. They are completely turned inside-out.

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting

1 upvote

is a real Statement FUJI employee in a telephone conversation with me three days ago
Also, I am still amazed

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

"Many professionals use the ORBS consciously as a stylistic device"

Are they referring to Bokeh balls? (feel free to do a google image search folks)

0 upvotes

One can only wonder why this "stylistic device" was carefully avoided in all of Fuji's promotional shots for the X10:

http://fujifilm-x.com/x10/en/gallery/world/index.html

0 upvotes

"Professionals are satisfied" ???

Unlike the X-100 which is still needs an update, hopefully Fuji will issue another firmware update for the X10.

I was seriously considering the X-Pro 1, but now I think I'll wait until I see what "Professional features" they've included in that body.

0 upvotes

I think white orbs are not bad idea for many of he crowd here; if in real life they assume same those little, challenged, gnarling, shouting devil disguises, the white orbs are a gift from heavens for them. So if you take a shot of yourself with an X10 surrounded by bright light reflections, you may appear better looking souls than you really are.

1 upvote

Never mind the "Orbs"; feel the RETRO!

2 upvotes

I have owned my X10 for a month now and I love it. Have not experienced orbs. Shots are fantastic!

Very happy. Thanks for a great camera Fujifilm.

8 upvotes

Are you, badlyread, thanking Fuji because you have a good cam and a lot of your fellow photographers cannot use that Fuji cam because it can spoil the best shot without warning?

Or perhaps you are in a denial phase?

1 upvote

I challenge you to try to reproduce the "orb" effect to allow yourself to actually understand when and if it occurs in your photos. Then you won't inadvertently ruin one of your best shots.

1 upvote

Isn't there just a very specific scenario when the light blooming occurs? Like night shot with low ISO or something?
Because I saw tons of x10 images and they all appears equally good or above other PS cameras.

0 upvotes

He only took shots of the family's black cat against a black BG. No orbs -- so his camera copy is perfection itself.

0 upvotes

Slag! Slag! Slag! Put another record on! Someone has a different opinion to you you and you take the mick! Lift your knuckles off the floor- you're making a mess.

0 upvotes

Thought this was a forum for grown up persons, however, reading all the responses from persons just shouting in the crowd without knowing what they are talking about, conducted by the Führer Francis Garver, I give up and just wait what Fuji will do.

There is no way one can start a normal discussion overhere, without beeing accused to be paid by Fuji or beeing stupid.

Aparently one is not allowed to vent his own opinion anymore. Thought we live in a free world, but aparenty some folks like the eastern block Tactics: overshouting everyone untill everybody is brainwashed and has no longer his own opinion.

Correct me if I am wrong, so Francis easy scoring for u.

8 upvotes

What's this "eastern block Tactics"? How do you think the 2003 US invasion of Iraq was sold to the public, and how do you think any serious medical insurance reform in the USA was stopped more recently?

Big deal there are some fanboys who can't fault Fuji and then there are others who won't allow any possibility that Fuji may come around and fix and acknowledge the problems with the X10.

2 upvotes

If orb problem was ever going to be fixed, it would be fixed by now.

4 upvotes

It's easy, rodek. You are complaining in generalities and putting silly labels on people.

Let me correct you, then. You are a chattering monkey.

2 upvotes

I am waiting for these cameras to come on "sale" because of the white orb effect...then maybe I can afford it. Any of you "unsatisfied" buyers want to sell one cheap?

0 upvotes

One guy, thinks its very difficult to give a normal sensible reply to Carver, so monkey like rply might be the correct phrase.

Howver, look in the mirror, dont like ur responses either?

Btw what do u mean by complaining, tried to start a normal conversation here, but if one says that one is ok with the x10. They are shot on the spot, as apparently people dont like to hear this, as their own opinion is the only correct one.

Have seen this b4 in this world, but since i still live in a free country i give my own opinion, like it or not.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

You thought wrong, Bugaboo.

Your "Eastern Block tactics" comments was none too appropriate, either. Are you picking on all religions and nationalities and skin colors, or just on them Eastern Block hordes?

And how dare you call other DP Review users "Führers?" I heard about "Closet Nazis." But you must be a quite open one. And you say you live in a free country? Which one? I'll make sure to strike that one from my list of desirable travel destinations.

"tried to start a normal conversation here."

Heck, at least you had tried. Too bad you never did succeed, huh?

@ OneGuy: You've said, it, Brother.

0 upvotes

Many of them ARE on sale cheap.

Look for "refurbished" or "open box" X10.

Fuji UK has 19. Amazon has more.

0 upvotes

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. But if you have orb problems, that's not an opinion, it's a fact. Where things become painful is if you do not get the orbs for whatever reason. And while this, too, is a fact, it is not a fact that everyone can accept. Therefore, while I respect your opinion, please change your comment to say "I am pathetic and stupid because I am using the camera and my photos do not exhibit orbs". Thank you for your cooperation.

0 upvotes

Arnie for a Total Recall. :-D

3 upvotes

The recall will occur when he sales "tank"

0 upvotes

Yeah, Hasta la vista, baby...

0 upvotes

I don't think it's hysterical, People have a right to voice there opinion especially on a piece of expensive kit which has defects!
I agree as a point and shoot it is stunning, But it isn't aimed at that market, it is a high end compact camera and thus is always going to be subject to this kind of criticism.
You can't have a camera that can be only used in certain situations because it is inadequate to deal with others...
The orbs I have seen in my pictures of night shoots, light reflections on water etc... are just not good enough, to the point where am thinking of why bothering using this camera at all!
I am surprised at how a brand like Fuji could NOT have seen this in there quality control, Its just seems fundamental to me to test sensors for burn out or orbs before they are used!

4 upvotes

I think you have a well reasoned point of view. It isn't hysterical to find the camera unusable if you are getting the orbs, and it's very disappointing (although not at all unexpected) that the firmware did not change much. As for defects, I use a Sigma DP1 that has so many obvious "defects" I can't list them all here. So I can't use my DP1 above ISO 200 and I can't use my X10 to shoot directly into a light source (although I have, and no orbs). Fuji should compensate people who are having orb problems and be done with it since there is obviously no inexpensive fix.

2 upvotes

Now I'm thinking of going with Nikon for my next camera. Better overall reputation than Fuji and Sigma, for sure.

Sure, someone at Fujifilm must have known that the sensor is crap and they still decided to release it and promote it. It'll bite them in the hind area real bad like. Wait and see.

0 upvotes

I can't believe the hysterical posts on this topic. I've taken about 5000 images with the X10 and seen the 'dreaded orbs' twice. For general purpose photography it's an excellent camera and I'm wondering how many of you who haves posted on this actually have a X10 and have had serious orb problems? Sure, the camera is not perfect, but it outputs excellent image quality and superb colours. It handles beautifully and as a walk around camera is worth every penny.

5 upvotes

This is a test dcresource does with EVERY camera

http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=4467

Only one camera has ever messed up like this.

I do have the X10. I wish I did not. It messes up a considerable proportion of my shots. Your requirements may be different.

8 upvotes

Well it's sunday I have time for this... Apart from "hysteria" the real issue maybe that in the market there are similarly priced cameras performing equally well without the orbs or/and the other problems mentioned. Another issue also Fuji trying to play down the problem. Let's not forget we are paying a lot of money for digital cameras because they are digital. And because they tell us sensor production cost more than what we think rightly or wrongly. Anyone with the knowledge please shed some light on sensor production costs. Thanx

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

Shocking. Someone posts about liking the camera....and Gary appears to tell them how wrong they are and provides the same stupid links over and over again. I've got over 2000 shots on my X10....orbs have appeared a handful of times and were very small....in other words, you'd need and 8x10 and a magnifying glass to see them. They were large enough to be seen in an 8x10 in 2 shots.....2 out of over 2000. Maybe we can start a totally separate forum for Gary, Paul and Ratty to vent non-stop about how much they hate the camera. They can put the DCResource link in their signature.

2 upvotes

Of course Fuji is trying to play down the problem. I realize some people would like Fuji to take out full page ads in the New York Times, begging for forgiveness but the what's really happening is Fuji is trying to find the least expensive solution while people with the orbs are seeking the most expensive solution. I imagine Fuji is mystified--as am I--that some people adore the camera yet others not only "hate" the camera; they hate the people who like the camera! If you want your money back, I think you're entitled to a full refund. But don't call people who are getting good results stupid or not as discerning as you are.

2 upvotes

Camera is great. It is the X10's sensor that is messed-up.

0 upvotes

@Francis my car is perfect but the engine doesn't work.

0 upvotes

Thanks everyone! I was on the fence & about to order the X10. I'm not a pro,
however, I'd really like a smaller p&s. Since there is an obvious quality issue in
the manufacturing of the X10. I'll continue shopping. I don't mind spending $600, butttt, gotta have reasonable quality. This is really disappointing. If anyone
has a favorite p&s I'd appreciate your thoughts. Again, thanks to all.

3 upvotes

My favorite is the X10.....still.

3 upvotes

Go with the Canon G1X or even the G12, still a great camera and will not do you wrong!

0 upvotes

I cannot open the website http://img.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_finepix_x_s1/sample_images/fujifilm_finepix_x_s1_30.jpg
Meddage Error 403: Forbidden

0 upvotes

just go to the main page www.photographyblog.com, then go to the XS-1 review and select Sample Images and then find the pic mentioned and then zoom in once it opens up, cheers

0 upvotes

Thank you !

0 upvotes

Thanks Fuji, your silence and unethical approach just solidifies the notion that you don't give a damn!!!! I was wondering... but now I KNOW!

3 upvotes

I know it, too. I am getting a Nikon. They are also Japanese, but soon to be moving on an entirely different (and much higher) reliability and confidence plateau from Fuji.

0 upvotes

Check this out. Sample picture from the X-S1 as reviewed in photographyBLOG. Zoom in at the two cars on the right, waiting at the crosswalk. Their shiny grill/fenders have glare that looks suspicious to me, especially the taxi cab. Look familiar anyone?

http://img.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_finepix_x_s1/sample_images/fujifilm_finepix_x_s1_30.jpg

1 upvote

oooh yes, ORB's indeed (hard edged discs)!!! mmm seems that the sensor is indeed faulty!!!

0 upvotes

The X10 test on photographyblog is rating the X10 higly recommended and their test pics are fine.

Are they doing something wrong? That makes at least 2 happy users Francis ;-)

0 upvotes

rodek, who is this 'Francis' you always keep talking about? Your pat white rat with the swastika on her collar?

0 upvotes

Wonder if you can do anything with them using PS if just 1 0r 2 orbs?

0 upvotes

The problem is they don't just cover the glare, they extend beyond the edges. Imagine a backlit lake or waterfall where you have a dozen perfect sphere in among the gleams. By the time you've painted them all out you are a painter more than a photographer.

0 upvotes

It WAS a nice camera...

.

5 upvotes

Sorry if what i say offend people but spending $600 on a small sensor camera is not smart
My $700 nex-5n is a perfect camera and i am sure the $600 nex-c3 is worth every penny
Support good company which provide great product at reasonable price

FUJI camera is always overpriced
They are just cheating on rich people but have the negative effect of raising price level in the whole industry

Not that i cannot afford x-pro1 but i would buy a nex-7 if i buy another camera today
We as photographer have responsibility to support good company for the benefit of all

4 upvotes

To get good shots from a NEX I need a good DSLR lens.

A smaller body saves me almost no weight, no space, and is not a good alternative to my DSLR.

7 upvotes

Non sense.

0 upvotes

My NEX 5N is the best cam I ever owned (with kit lens), matches and beats D7000 (which I have too), D7, 60 etc. in IQ (check DPReview of 5N and add in these cam's in the comparative tables and you'll see the 5N's low light ability hits all the others for a six!! with the kit lens!!! But yes back to the X10 and after saving for 3 months for an X10 there is no way I'll support Fuji now, not after this debacle!!

0 upvotes

@Maloy: You're kidding, right? What's the problem with NEX 3 and 5? They are both excellent products, read these forums to find out why. Both beginners and enthusiasts use/used them to produce a lot of high quality photos! The sensor is excelent, barely different from the newer generation, the lenses are the same as for the 5N and 7, have you ever used one?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

I don't think I'll buy from Sony again. Owning an A350 with a few problems and seeing NOT 1 firmware update from Sony at all. You talk about ignoring problems and keeping silent. Not to mention astronomical lens prices that don't even have built-in stabilization.

I look at the fuji whiners as attempting to drive down the price so that they could afford one.

1 upvote

Sony has financial difficulties and a new pres. Jefftan gets off topic to plug Sony and hopes they have enough money for lenses they promised. Sony's NEX-7 is no good on dpr studio tests (JPEGs, ISO800, blue VW).

Back to Fuji: Orbs are large and tack sharp. Solid, too.

1 upvote

You know what's scary. Fuji also makes medical imaging equipment.

4 upvotes

That insinuation is pretty lousy. Shame on you.

3 upvotes

It's not an insinuation. It's a fact.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/medical/

1 upvote

I also have a link for you:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/insinuation

1 upvote

Implication vs inference.

Look those two up too.

0 upvotes

Well, it's a fact that they make medical equipment, but it's also a shameful insinuation that they are making defective medical equipment. Maybe your favorite camera company could start helping science and medicine, like Fuji has been doing for decades...

3 upvotes

I used to have a lot of time and appreciation for Fuji.

I have several "favourite" camera companies

Many do medical imaging. None, including Fuji, do it for charity.

http://www.panasonic.com/business/medicalvideo/medical-oem-cameras.asp
http://www.canon.com/scsa/welfare/overseas/malaysia_donation/index.html
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/app-medicalimaging/

But if a company's quality control is worse in one area than others, it's about time the company and its shareholders and its users ask why.

2 upvotes

Point-and-shoot cameras are not used for medical purposes. I think it's safe to say that quality control is rather more strict when it comes to equipment costing tens of thousands of dollars.

0 upvotes

One would hope so.

But tens of thousands is a conservative estimate for how much this mess will likely cause Fuji.

20 refurbished ones on the Fuji UK site right now. After three months on sale.

2 upvotes

@AlpCns2 @Headwithwings @nicador

Wow, Either you are all Fuji FANBOY or Fuji employee out in full force in denial, eh!

Tell me this please; how many Medical equipment you think Fuji sell in a year?and how many digital P & S you think Fuji sell in a year?
BTW, so you guys are saying that because some poor Joe spending $600 for a P & S, therefore they DESERVE to be treated like ShXt by Fuji, because some government or private clinic spend million on Medical equipment, therefore they get treated like king? Listen to yourself, you called yourself from a civilize world? Shame on you and just shut your mouth for good.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 45 seconds after posting

1 upvote

"Innovative" is not Latin for "faulty" Maloy.

1 upvote

Medical equipment? You don't see white orbs where the sun doesn't shine. ;-)

1 upvote

The firmware update doesn't appear to fix the white orb problem, or even reduce it from what I can see. I read somewhere that Fuji stated that this is a normal phenomenon with digital cameras in general. However, I took some shots with the X10 and the same shots with my older digital cameras, and the X10 was the only one that produced white orbs. It's a shame, I really like this camera, but now I'm not so sure.
Perhaps photoshop will create a tool similar to red eye tool, "white orb tool". Ha. Just kidding.
Going to write and call Fuji to complain....a lot, over and over again. Not sure this will help much if they get flooded by complaints, can't hurt.

3 upvotes

Kind of disappointing. I was hoping Fuji was coming back to life. Seemed all they made were crappy bridge cameras that always seemed to come in at the bottom of any DP review. These new cameras seemed exciting.

10 upvotes

Yeah seems indeed that's how it seemed

1 upvote

Until this afternoon I was actually considering getting their X-S1. But armed with a huge dose of fresh knowledge from new victims.... err, users, I would not touch a Fujifilm-cam with a 10-ft pole. If you've been following the saga on DP Review and elsewhere, Fujifilm's X10 and X-S1 models are getting a typical Edgar Allan Poe type of "Premature Burial."

How bad it has gotta be? The reviews are pretty bad. For instance, the X-S1 has plenty of snafus, like a sagging "droopy" zoom lens barrel in telephoto setting, white discs & blue discs galore, hideous CMOS jello/skew/wobble, cut-rate full auto video, unreliable and slow autofocus, and so on.

Further, Fujifilm is clueless, is lying to its customers and the public, and is generally going down the toilet. Forget that MADE IN JAPAN sticker -- it means the opposite now as what the original intent behind it might have been.

0 upvotes

I suppose this will kill the popular and often expressed theory that Dpreview shills for camera makers.

It sure looks like they are trying very hard to be objective and to provide the most accurate information they can.

1 upvote

I'd like to think so too but conspiracy theorists are pretty hard-core - they'll just spin it to "Ah-HA! I *knew* that Canon/Nikon were trying to torpedo Fuji! Now we have PROOF!!!" and similar lines of utter BS :(

0 upvotes

Well, yes and no. This fault has only been known about, and heatedly discussed on the forum, for two or more months after all.

4 upvotes

Notice how the DPReview bulletin appeared right at the start of the weekend? When the industry PR machines are sleeping?

It may be coincidence, but how handy that the preliminary results of testing would have at least two days at the top of the news item column...At least two days for harvesting comments from consumers and customers.

Bravo DPR!! :)

0 upvotes


Gifty concept camera produces instant flipbooks May 22, 2013	New York Times details photo editing policy for fashion magazine May 20, 2013	Olympus to axe V-series point-and-shoot cameras May 16, 2013	Adobe issues Camera Raw v8.1 and DNG Converter 'release candidates' May 16, 2013

	Olympus PEN E-P5 May 10, 2013
	Samsung NX2000 May 1, 2013
	Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V Apr 24, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Apr 24, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1 Apr 24, 2013
	Ricoh GR Apr 17, 2013
	Samsung NX1100 Apr 11, 2013
	Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF6 Apr 9, 2013
	Fujifilm FinePix S8400W Mar 22, 2013
	Fujifilm FinePix XP200 Mar 22, 2013

FLICKR	150
Would you move to a full frame DSLR?	150
* this week through your m43 - 2013.05.20 *	90
Do you change lenses in the fields?	79
To owners of M4/3 and D-SLRs: which came first?	66
stolen D800 in Paris.	58
Why are DSLRs left home 90.2% of the time	55
Struggling with new AF-S 80-400mm	52
Pentax FF rumor gaining steam	51
Why does my photo lack detail...?	49
Macro lens for micro four thirds, any good choice?	44
My GR Just Arrived - Some Quick Full Size ...	41
This is why to shoot in RAW	40
I sold my Canon...	38
It's time to stop whining about Adobe. . .	38
E-P5 anyone?	36
A "film-like" quality : Voigtländer 17.5mm ...	35
What's your favorite full frame walkaround lens?	34
NYC Nightscapes	33
It's Beautiful! (Flickr)	33

Your email address:
Your name:

Fujifilm X10 firmware: Appears not to fix 'white orbs'

Comments