Previous news story    Next news story

Sony revises specifications of DSC-RX1 full frame, fixed-lens compact

By dpreview staff on Oct 2, 2012 at 18:16 GMT
Buy on GearShop$2,798.00

Sony has announced a two subtle changes to the specifications of its forthcoming RX1 full-frame fixed-lens compact camera. Continuous AF will not be available in stills shooting mode, and the AF-C position will not appear on the front dial. Meanwhile, the camera's maximum shutter speed has been extended, when shooting at moderate apertures. The changes explain Sony's insistence that we leave the 'Not Final' stickers visible on the pre-production unit we used for our preview.

The company says that continuous AF will not be available in stills shooting mode. A unified 'AF' position on the camera's focus mode dial will set the camera to AF-S in stills mode and AF-C when shooting movies.

Meanwhile, the camera's fastest shutter speed has been amended. We questioned Sony at the time of the announcement why the shutter speed wasn't able to increase for smaller apertures (which is normal behavior for a lens shutter, where the shutter has a shorter distance to travel at small apertures). The company has announced that 1/4000th shutter speeds will be available when using apertures smaller than F5.6. 1/3200th will be available at apertures smaller than F4 and 1/2000th will remain the fastest shutter speed available when working with apertures brighter than F4.

173
I own it
124
I want it
26
I had it
Discuss in the forums
Our favorite products. Free 2 day shipping.
Support this site, buy from dpreview GearShop.
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1

Comments

Total comments: 118
abi170845
By abi170845 (Oct 16, 2012)

At the end of the day, how do the photos look printed 60x250cm?Will it really "blow" away my 7D? I get great prints 60x90cm up to 60x250cm with good light with 10mmEFSzoom, Singray Reverse Grads during sunset sunrise and golden hour, sorry I do not shoot in single candle digit, how much bigger do I really need to go? I need a hangar if I want to print 60x250cm photos.

FF, megapixel, etc is, for me, becoming irrelevant at the current technology.

For 3000 big ones, I'd rather go to Muench photowork shop or even better go to every single Dan Ballard photoworkshops starting January until September for the price of the RX1 and still have some change left to print BIG from my current kit.

0 upvotes
AlexVT
By AlexVT (Oct 7, 2012)

With a built in EVF like the Nex 7, it would be a winner. For the single focal length crowd, you would get excellent quality in a small package. Having a pro camera without a viewfinder, to me, is an incomplete package that almost got it right, but missed the mark. You still have time Sony to make the change!

2 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 8, 2012)

This is not a Pro camera, it is a "simple" Powershot P&S tourist camera with a FF sensor and an amazing lens.

0 upvotes
rokikiki
By rokikiki (Oct 28, 2012)

Yeah. Tourist camera. Right.
After paying almost 3 grand, you still have to dish out over 400 dollars to get a viewfinder that you will have to keep taking on and off, 'cause it's going to hook on your other "tourist" things in your bag (not pocket).
I see it rather as a rich pro's second, purist camera. Am staying in the dslr camp for now, I'd rather earn money with my camera than spend it on protruding scopes and a fixed lens thingee.

0 upvotes
MarceloSalup
By MarceloSalup (Oct 6, 2012)

An expensive P&S; no interchangeable lens in today's market? Not for a pro, that's for sure

0 upvotes
Mapel
By Mapel (Oct 4, 2012)

It would have been a lot better if they had changed the price tag instead of the specifications :(

3 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (Oct 4, 2012)

They have a cheaper RX if you can't afford this one.

4 upvotes
Sad Joe
By Sad Joe (Oct 4, 2012)

So true!!

0 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 8, 2012)

The price is ok, but it lacks of the main features one seeks for with such a fast lens, and that is shutter speed and VF. The Zeiss glass only is worth the money, but the best glass does only a good job if the camera follows it's needs. And here, obviously, it doesn't. In bright sun, you're stuck, you'll see nothing on the LCD and the 1/2000 shutter speed is a treat too, you need speeds up to 1/8000 with such a lens.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (Oct 4, 2012)

Google transmogrify language good explains, so kind knowing differs in specification. Upkeep with good works, thanking.

8-)

Brian

3 upvotes
MichaelEchos
By MichaelEchos (Oct 4, 2012)

I absolutely like RX100. Pocketable is my utmost importance for non-interchangeable lens camera.

But this camera? Neh... For its big size, I'd rather get a NEX, with much better flexibility. And when Sony releases fast pancake primes for NEX, this camera will be irrelevant.

1 upvote
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (Oct 4, 2012)

For someone like me who prefers to carry more than one camera with complementing lenses, RX1 can be a superb deal. For example, I could get Sony A99 with 16-35 (UWA zoom), 24-70 (Normal zoom) and 70-200 (Telephoto zoom). And add Sony NEX-6 with LA-EA2 for that second camera for $1250.

Or, I could skip the NEX-6 option ($1250) and the 24-70 lens ($2000), and get the RX1 with EVF ($3200) to cover 35-70mm range. So, based on cost, it is a wash.

It gets even more interesting if we consider that I could simply have A99 + 70-200G and RX1 in the bag with 16-35 as the additional lens, versus, A99 + 70-200G, NEX-6 + LA-EA2 + 24-70 in the bag and 16-35 as the additional lens.

Now, if I had $14K to put towards photography today, I would get all three. :D

1 upvote
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 4, 2012)

with IF, you create the whole universe new in a second

0 upvotes
Joe Shaffer
By Joe Shaffer (Oct 4, 2012)

As nice as it'd be to go lighter... I can't justify that amount, the NEX7 is looking better and better.

1 upvote
the reason
By the reason (Oct 3, 2012)

So let me get this straight...
If I wanted this camera with the evf, the lens hood, a carrying case, and a (needed) 2 stop nd filter Id need 3900$? And some of you are ok with this??!! That borders on brain damage.
Anything you have to compare with a leica M to justify it is ridiculously overpriced to begin with.
I dont care if your 30 year old rollei only did 1/500 of a sec, I care that its 2012 and you wanna charge me that much for 1/2000 of a sec.
It amazes me how hard some of you are trying to justify this thing...

5 upvotes
Dan Ortego
By Dan Ortego (Oct 3, 2012)

I agree with you and I never felt that my Leica M8 was worth the 5500-bucks I paid for it new in 2008. That crappy .50-cent power switch was enough to make me regret the purchase all by itself. Man, talk about a horrible first impression! The Leica primes I purchased were hard to deal with at the time, but I knew they would increase in value. Wish like hell I didn't sell them.

Today, I’m looking at the RX1 kit and it too seems overly priced although I will likely buy it. Actually, the ergonomics concern me more than the price. I'll just hope that ReallyRight Stuff makes an integrated bracket/grip like they did for the Oly' OM-D E-M5. btw: I think the price for the Thumb Grip and OVF is somewhat fair but the Hood is a total rip-off and should have been included.

In any event, it’s pretty much pay n’ pray from where I live. Sure, I could return it if it doesn't work out but I hate that process.

Comment edited 9 times, last edit 15 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Oct 3, 2012)

Do people have this same response to expensive cars? Do people say, "You must be brain dead to buy a premium Lexus or BMW or Mercedes when a Honda or Toyota is so much less expensive!"

If a product doesn't interest you, then move along. People tend to forget that there is a broad range of economic levels throughout society and the world. Some women will drop $5000 on a handbag! Some men will drop $250,000 on a car. That might seem shocking to you, but this is just reality. So I don't know what people are so up in arms about certain camera companies going after the high end market with certain premium products. Besides, selling exclusively in the low-margin, cut-throat, razor-thin profit, consumer market can really kill a company. Sony is smart to go beyond that market with the RX1.

11 upvotes
the reason
By the reason (Oct 4, 2012)

If toyota makes a 100,000$ car, I will have the same reaction. You must be brain dead to buy a 100k$ corolla. And Sony is not lexus, or leica for that matter, sony is sony. They dont even make lenses for goshs sake.
3900$ for a sony cybershot? yes you must be brain dead

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
rjx
By rjx (Oct 4, 2012)

To "The Reason"

You can't get something for nothing. I do a good job at justifying the price even though I doubt I'll ever buy one.

How much is the cheapest new full frame camera going for? Nikon D600 $2097

How much for a new Zeiss 35mm F2 ZF? $1117

Total $3214

Yes, this RX1 + accessories might be more expensive than anyone is comfortable paying. I understand. BUT, and here's my justification. The ONLY other discrete full frame option available is the Leica M9, M-E, or M & an expensive 35mm lens.

No, the RX1 is NOT a rangefinder with a built in viewfinder. But it's smaller than the Leica, and capable of better image quality, IMO.

For those that need, or really desire a tiny, discrete full frame camera, this RX1 isn't so crazy of an option if you can afford around $3000.

Just because this is a compact camera automatically means it should be cheap? Yeah that would be nice, but this is a high quality, tiny FF camera with great glass attached. Of course it's not going to be cheap.

4 upvotes
oorwullie
By oorwullie (Oct 4, 2012)

You want justification? Just wait a couple of weeks till the reviewers get hold of it and show what it can do. A quality lens custom matched to a state of the art 24mp sensor in a compact body?
My bet is that the results will make the asking seem more than reasonable when compared with any other FF camera.
If its not for you, fair enough. If you have too much money invested elsewhere or if you just cant afford it, too bad.
If it delivers, its my next camera.

4 upvotes
MonoSynth
By MonoSynth (Oct 4, 2012)

Please show me a camera with a leaf shutter that can go faster than 1/2000s. As far as I know, they don't exist. At all. 1/2000 is crazy fast for this type of shutter.

2 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 4, 2012)

To Tthe Reason

you say "The ONLY other discrete full frame option available is the Leica M9, M-E, or M & an expensive 35mm lens."

So, in some way you will pay 7000$ for a camera without working comfort, that makes the worst shots if you compare it to D600, D800, NEX-7, where the most expensive is half that price. Leica is glass to me, the lenses are excellent but still overpriced. The body is overpriced and can not hold the road with all other FF cameras. The M10 might be better, but for the price, I get something else.

The RX-1 Pricing is ok, regarding the quality of the lens, but that is all, the rest is not worth to waste much time. With a short zoom, 20-60, and a price tag around 1500$, this camera had sold like peanuts.

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
1 upvote
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (Oct 4, 2012)

"the reason: If I wanted this camera with the evf, the lens hood, a carrying case, and a (needed) 2 stop nd filter Id need 3900$? And some of you are ok with this??!! That borders on brain damage."

No, brain damage entails loss of recognition when one chooses to complain about something the person can’t afford, much less demonstrate any ability to do the math. And if someone feels that 2-stop ND filter is “needed”, then, the only thing that can be done is be sympathetic to that person.

2 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Oct 4, 2012)

@the reason- "And Sony is not lexus, or leica for that matter, sony is sony."

LOL. That is the lamest reason of all. First of all, I didn't know that companies were barred from stretching into new markets. Secondly, Toyota is Lexus, which means that companies can and do stretch into new markets. (BTW, Toyota/Lexus has the LFA, which has a base price of $375K. So there goes your silly argument of "If toyota makes a 100,000$ car.") Thirdly, Sony has had a long reputation of making high end products, in addition to lower-end consumer products. Fourthly, what's with this "100k$ corolla" non-sense? The RX1 is far more than any ol' Sony compact camera with a high price tag slapped on it! LOLOLOL. Your statements are just plain irrational and ignorant.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
1 upvote
SheikYerbouti
By SheikYerbouti (Oct 3, 2012)

Seeing the gorgeous images that Sigma's latest APS-C sized Foveon sensor is capable of ...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp1_merrill.shtml

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/sigma_dp2_merrill_review/sample_images/

... I'm wondering how much better a FF camera can possibly be? If only someone with the right know-how could help them to build a camera that's actually usable ...

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Low Budget Dave
By Low Budget Dave (Oct 3, 2012)

The C-AF makes sense when you consider the RX-100. The S-AF is reliable and fast, but the C-AF hunts back and forth. In movie mode, it does not, but it picture mode, it is annoying. Sony took the feature out because it was causing more problems than it was fixing.

The shutter speed is also a matter of working with the available tools. Some engineer somewhere pointed out that the camera might be useful for sports photography if you could up the speed just a little bit. On leaf cameras, one way to do this is to shoot at F7, or whatever. All you have to do is tell the software to stop protecting you from yourself.

It does not fit my needs or my bank account, but if you want portrait quality in a small package, Sony seems to be delivering the goods.

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Oct 3, 2012)

I read all comments here so far and have a distinct (if biased) impression that Sony has been inspired by Pana GF1 w/20mm pancake. This Pana cam does not need image stabilization and makes great 30x40 cm pics (my own testimony).

Zo, for RX1 $1k premium over GF1, it must make 40x60 cm prints routinely, be fast-kid worthy without flare, and sprint 100m under 10 seconds.

1 upvote
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (Oct 3, 2012)

The inspiration is more likely to be from the Fuji X100 and other premium large sensor fixed lens compacts from Leica and Sigma. It could also be a testbed for tech going into a full frame NEX, as they're already releasing a full frame video camera with an e-mount that takes APS NEX lenses and new full frame lenses.

1 upvote
villagranvicent
By villagranvicent (Oct 5, 2012)

My GF1 + 20mm + VF cost me $700 and the IQ is excellent, no need to spend 3000 more on this. But I would be more than happy to put money together for a Fuji X-E1.

0 upvotes
rjx
By rjx (Oct 3, 2012)

To all those bitching about about the price ... don't buy one then. Simple.

Leica M-E ($5450 @ BH) + Leica 35mm 1.4 Summilux-M Aspherical ($4995 @ BH) is a grand total of $10,445
RX1 ($2798 @ BH) + OVF ($599 DPR) + Hood ($179 DPR) totals $3577. That's a savings of $6868.

A few "inexpensive options:"

M-E ($5450 @ BH) + Leica 35mm f/2.5 Summarit ($1895 @ BH) = $7345. $3768 more than the RX1 combo.

M-E ($5450 @ BH) + Voigtlander Nokton Aspherical 35mm f/1.2 II ($1399 @ BH) = $6849. $3272 more than the RX1 combo.

While you will NOT have the same shooting experience with the RX1 as you would with the M9, the RX1 will provide those wanting a very discrete FF camera that can't afford a Leica an affordable option. The RX1 is VERY affordable compared to a Leica M9, M-E, or M, as long as you're only interested in shooting @ 35mm, which is the primary focal length of many Leica users.

7 upvotes
JackM
By JackM (Oct 3, 2012)

This is exactly it. If you want a camera like this, the only other choice is Leica. However the price of the RX1 is nevertheless a hard pill to swallow when you consider you could tolerate one less stop and get the Fuji X100 for less than half the price, or wait for the presumed NEX9, or wait for Fuji to put the X-Trans sensor in the next X100.

1 upvote
sroute
By sroute (Oct 3, 2012)

The RX1 will likely blow away the flare prone X100 in all respects including shot to shot time, auto-focus speed and accuracy, noise at higher sensitivity levels, and of course image quality. Plus the firmware for the RX1 will probably be release quality unlike the X100 which only as of the recently released V2.0, issued more than a year after the introduction of the X100, finally fixed some of the larger bugs (AF speed, aperture happy dance / shutter lag being principle issues) that made the X100 unusable for so many users. Those issues should have been addressed before the cameras shipped unit number 1.

Given the poor state of the firmware and the impact on handling, I sold mine due to usability issues and flare, not to mention concerns over the sticky aperture problem (mine suffered this) coming back again in the future.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
sroute
By sroute (Oct 3, 2012)

Sorry, meant as of the latest releases of the X100 firmware (1.30 is latest for X100); V2.0 relates to other comments I'd make about the X Pro 1.

0 upvotes
JackM
By JackM (Oct 3, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the RX1 and I want to figure out a way for me to buy one. Sony gets a standing ovation from this Canon user this time. You just have to admit that at $2800 for what can only be a second camera, you *must* look around at all the options, including inferior but possibly "good enough" options. Not to mention *anything else* in your life that you could spend $2800 on.

2 upvotes
Dan Ortego
By Dan Ortego (Oct 3, 2012)

Very well presented and I had already done the same math. I have no interest in revisiting my Leica days' but this one is very doable. I just wish the accessories were already out so I could get a jump on paying for those pesky necessities before the RX1 hits my account.

0 upvotes
mosc
By mosc (Oct 3, 2012)

Some near identical optical viewfinder will be available from China in a few weeks for <$50. We all know it. It'll be 95% as good.

0 upvotes
BroFlav
By BroFlav (Oct 8, 2012)

Fixed lens, 2800$?? You have to be kiddin'. You can't compare the choice for Leica, which is not fixed lens, to this camera which is made by a company with big experience in making TVs and music players. Common

0 upvotes
Jogger
By Jogger (Oct 3, 2012)

Will pass and wait for that FF NEX9 to use as a digital back for my FF Nikkors.

0 upvotes
Joe Ogiba
By Joe Ogiba (Oct 3, 2012)

I think you will have a very long wait .

Sony's Mark Weir: Will full-frame go mirrorless ?

DE: Does a full frame mirrorless interchangeable lens camera make sense?

MW: Well actually, we just introduced one. It's called the NEX-VG900. Most think of it in the context of a camcorder, but it is also an admirable still camera as well, and it does have an E-mount and it does have a full-frame image sensor, and you can use E-mount lenses on it. But the idea of a full frame E-mount camera, yeah, we already announced it, it's called the NEX-VG900.

But I think what those who are suggesting that a full-frame E-mount camera be developed is a full frame E-mount camera together with E-mount lenses that would operate with it and offer full frame coverage. And all one has to do is to look at the RX1 disassembled model and see the optical challenge that would represent."

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/21/qa-with-sonys-mark-weir-will-full-frame-go-mirrorless-and-whats-the-deal-wi

0 upvotes
sroute
By sroute (Oct 3, 2012)

Agree with Joe - My guess is there will be no full frame NEX anytime soon. NEX is doing just fine thanks very much, why introduce confusion into that line?

You want full frame compact, go RX1. Or A99. Or a competitors full frame DSLR. Or, at 3 times the cost or more, go Leica.

There is no competition for this camera at present, as the Leica M is a totally different type of camera, at a price point which puts it out of reach even more photographers.

If Sony believes they are unlikely to be challenged, at least until sales prove there is a demand for this sort of camera, Mike Weir's comment about the RX1 being a classic camera may well be borne out.

1 upvote
mosc
By mosc (Oct 3, 2012)

I think Nikon is the most likely to come out with a FF mirrorless. Their 1 series is very far from FF so I don't think they have much competition from their own product line. Sony's A99 sensor has phase detection. That, and I don't see why you couldn't use a pentax-like mirrorless design for FF featuring a native FX mount. For an APS-C camera it seems overkill but a FF lens isn't going to be that small anyway.

Nikon delivering a FF sensor FX mount around the old shape of a D40 would be a hot ticket.

0 upvotes
Donald Chin
By Donald Chin (Oct 3, 2012)

Highest shutter speed @ 1/4000s (F5.6) & 1/3200s (F4) is an incredible achievement for leaf shutter! Fill flash will never be so easy with the RX1!

0 upvotes
sroute
By sroute (Oct 3, 2012)

To gl2k (post below)

The alternative to having a fixed minimum shutter speed across all apertures is to have a much slower minimum shutter speed like 1/1000 or 1/2000.

I have lenses which cost as much as this camera which have leaf shutters within them that can't even hit 1/2000th. One is limited to 1/500th of a second across all apertures. Yippee for constant shutter speed, that's such an improvement in your books, right?

Medium format lenses typically have even greater distances for the leaf shutter to cover and shutter speed with this type of shutter design is a function of that distance. The lenses in the X100 and RX1 have to deal with the same physics.

Laugh all you want, the leaf shutter provides real benefits. Like the X100 (which people said would never sell, but did), some buyers will pick up the RX1 specifically because it has a fast, virtually silent, flash-sync at all shutter settings, leaf shutter.

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
gl2k
By gl2k (Oct 3, 2012)

ha ha ha ... I wet my pants.

€3100 (official price) and all you get is a camera that can't even keep a constant shutter speed over all apertures. This must be a joke.

2 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (Oct 3, 2012)

Yep, someone is laughing right now...

2 upvotes
Rooru S
By Rooru S (Oct 3, 2012)

Do you even know how leaf shutters do work?

Now that I remember, not too many people seemed to complain about the 1/1000 shutter speed limitation at F/2 on the Fuji X100. Why would people complain (if they know the RX1 uses a leaf shutter) if Sony managed to get 1/2000 at F/2???

Only people like you, doing no research at all, makes that kind of comment gl2k.

18 upvotes
ebbo
By ebbo (Oct 3, 2012)

gl2k - The kindest thing I could say is just don't post...

11 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Oct 3, 2012)

Its easy to explain, Roo. I have zero expectations of Fuji. Their autofocus is not even auto. It makes no sense to include Fuji in the discussion.

Yes, they even add insult to the injury by not paying for the orbs, which were omitted from the spec.

Do you read dpr, Roo? I know you do but then you hafta integrate that knowledge.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (Oct 3, 2012)

How much larger would the camera be if they had used a focal plane shutter in it? An FP shutter would be noisier and cause more vibration too.

And since the lens is fixed the primary "advantage" of having a single FP shutter in the body is not a factor.

So those few people who absolutely must shoot at f2 above 1/2000th of a second will not be served by this camera. Of course it also bothers people who are fixated on marginally useful specs and probably wouldn't ever consider owning such a camera in any case.

1 upvote
bcalkins
By bcalkins (Oct 3, 2012)

The only reason I ever run out of the shutter speed at wide apertures is in bright sun. All it takes is an ND filter (or polarizer) to gain two stops back...

0 upvotes
maboule123
By maboule123 (Oct 3, 2012)

These guys have been playing tango to customers ever since the appearance of HX30V and HX20V. No printed manuals, tech data going unclear, prices changing, and the final blow: secret recall (at least from Best Buy, Canada) of the HX30V, to make it come back 2 weeks later without a word to the customers, only hush comments from employes.
I'd be very careful not to jump to buy this model but maybe 6 months later, when the fools who rushed to buy it will be complaining and maybe Sony will be forced to conduct repairs or to elaborate some data aps.

0 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Oct 3, 2012)

When I look at this camera all I can think of is Ermanox.

1 upvote
Sam Carriere
By Sam Carriere (Oct 3, 2012)

Sony is a company that deserves to fail.
What do you suppose the ETA for this thing now is? 2017?
RIP Olympus.

0 upvotes
darkref
By darkref (Oct 3, 2012)

why do they deserve to fail?

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

I don't think they "deserve to fail" for the RX1, but they should have left the RX1 alone with 1/2000 shutter.

2 upvotes
jedinstvo
By jedinstvo (Oct 3, 2012)

Every time I visit Facebook I get an Amazon add for this camera. I guess I should buy one just to put Amazon on the spot.

1 upvote
zakk9
By zakk9 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Fuji X100 looks increasingly better, and I can have 3 of them for the price of the Sony with a "stick out like a sore thumb" viewfinder.

0 upvotes
brendon1000
By brendon1000 (Oct 3, 2012)

Yup, the Fuji also has a 24 MP full frame sensor. Oh wait !

Thats the same logic as saying why buy one Ferrari when I can buy 3 Mercedes sedans instead.

14 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

That is true but it won't give you the same low light performance or image quality of the Sony everything else being equal. The Sony gives you say 49mm equivalent focal length at 12 MP… the X100 has 12 MP. So it's like you have 2 lenses in one.

If you are interested in video the Sony is vastly superior here. This isn't to say the Fuji is bad, the Fuji is great, but I don't think the advantages are being seen properly.

4 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 3, 2012)

Ferrari or Mercedes, none of the both gives you the right to drive faster than any speed limit. The RX1 can be what it can be. it is a niche product, in some way a predecessor for other similar cameras. So, if you jump on this one right now, you have money to waste or you agree to play Sony's guinea pig.

0 upvotes
rjx
By rjx (Oct 3, 2012)

Why not wait to pass judgment when the camera is actually released and reviewed? And when we can see real world images from the final version ?

Who cares if this is a niche product? If your not the targeted photographer for this camera then why not focus on making great photographs with the gear you have instead of making fun of the camera and it's potential users?

How can you say people that buy this camera are wasting their money only because this is a camera that serves no purpose to you? If someone wants / needs a full frame camera with a great Sony sensor, great lens and in a discrete package, this is a hell of a lot more cost effective (even with an optional VF) than a Leica M9 + 35mm lens. No the RX1 is not a rangefinder, but it's great ISO performance and IQ in a small package will fit well within that niche at that price point.

3 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (Oct 3, 2012)

That is true. But research in marketing, advertising and human behavior tells us that the utility aspect of a product is only one factor in purchasing decisions.

0 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 8, 2012)

Well, read the comments on all photo sites and you come to the same conclusion. Yes, the rich freaks will buy this, for sure, Sony did not make this not to be sold. The camera, and I said that quiet often, is not too expensive considering the quality and price of the lens, in some way you pay a good lens and get a camera for free with it. If it had a viewfinder included and a wider lens, I would be interested, despite of the pricing. 24mm and a viewfinder and i am the list. The only true fact that will make that camera sell is IQ. Street shooters who seek for this will be delighted, but one the other end, a Fuji x100 cost a lot less, and one has to see first if this makes a 1700$ better picture. If Sony is clever, they develop it to wider angle, like Sigma does with the DP, and offer different options. And, with interchangeable lenses developed specifically for it, it could make a hit. In ancient times we also changed the lens with the leaf shutter on it, and still today that exists.

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (Oct 2, 2012)

I'd take that as an exaggerated comment out of frustration. Have you experienced, up-close, the idiosyncratic behaviour of Merrills? Their AF speed? Then, you'll know frustration..

4 upvotes
Gary Dean Mercer Clark
By Gary Dean Mercer Clark (Oct 2, 2012)

This camera makes me want to buy a Sigma DP2M and DP1M for $2000.00 and have $799.00 change left. DP2M will blow away the overpriced RX1 in image detail and quality.

1 upvote
cs hauser
By cs hauser (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks for the chuckle. I needed that.

15 upvotes
meanwhile
By meanwhile (Oct 2, 2012)

You can use the $799 to buy a Kindle and some books so you have something to do waiting for the DPs to focus, and waiting for there to be enough light to use ISO400.

13 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (Oct 3, 2012)

LOL @ meanwhile... how true...

5 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

Gary, in what context? The DP2M *will not* blow away the RX1 in many, many situations. For my needs and wants I rather pay $2800 than $2000 for both the DP1M and DP2M because none of those two can do what I want to do and they do not have the image quality for what I want.

The DP2M is fantastic in good daylight and ISO 200 or less. The Sony there will do quite good too as it will have more DR than the Sigma, the Sigma having more resolution- so even on Sigma's best case it depends on the situation, and you still get some magenta/green splotches in some shots as early as ISO 100 (rare), ISO 200 (more frequent than I would like). Yes, I used one.

In turn the Sony will start pulling ahead of the Sigmas starting ISO 400 and ditto for anything higher.

For my work, the DP2M is not a match. Neither is the DP1M. The Sony will have far and away better image quality for what I want to do - and I am not even counting the usability of course.

1 upvote
RStyga
By RStyga (Oct 3, 2012)

The resolution of a Merrill camera is field-measured, if I'm not mistaken, at about 19-23MP, practically not different from RX1's. On the other hand, the chromatic "mess" on Sigma cameras' output is very obvious and destructive.

Unless Sigma improves on Foveon X3 sensor chromatic aberration and noise performance there's no future for this -otherwise impressive- technology.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
5 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (Oct 3, 2012)

The RX1's AF won't be any faster than the Sigma.

0 upvotes
hippo84
By hippo84 (Oct 3, 2012)

gary mercer, Production RX1 still doesn't exist. Where did You get an information about IQ? From in-camera JPEGs of pre-production camera? Shame on You :))

ageha, same story. Have You already compared RX1 (with final firmware, of course) with Sigma? Where did You get it? )))

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
brendon1000
By brendon1000 (Oct 3, 2012)

@ageha - Are you serious ? You are basing your statement that the RX1's AF won't be faster than the Sigma on what exactly ?

Their NEX cameras are pretty fast already and most of them are optimized for slow zooms. The RX1 has a fast f2 lens to focus with and I am willing to bet it would be very speedy to focus.

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

@ageha- how so? I bet you it will actually be faster than the Sigma. Sony is touting as short as 0.13 secs and they already have much more experience doing contrast autofocus fast than Sigma.

0 upvotes
gsum
By gsum (Oct 3, 2012)

I really wish that come posters would do a bit of research before posting - it's just a matter of searching for a few real-world examples. There is no Foveon X3 chromatic aberration, for example. In fact the new Merrills give some of the best IQ I've ever seen at low ISOs.
BTW I'm not a Sigma owner - just interested in cameras that provide high IQ and are clutter/gimmick free.

0 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 3, 2012)

the DP M from Sigma have only one advantage that those cameras deliver a picture quality like a medium format camera. But, look what you get for 1000$. Michael Reichman is here on same wave length and wrote an open letter to Sigma CEO in this matter. Foveon will remain a niche product too. First it is expensive, second it limits to 400 ISO, beyond that, all you get is noise. So i prefer a micron less in picture quality and have all the extras and comfort that Sony's cameras have. I do not shoot video, but when O do, I am very impressed how the NEX-7 produces here a fantastic quality.

0 upvotes
RStyga
By RStyga (Oct 4, 2012)

Sigma cameras produce chromatic aberrations; maybe not the conventional colour fringing, agreed, but colour patches and blotches, plus washed out colours at ISO>400; even at ISO 400 Sigma loses its touted Hi-Res output. Rock-bottom-base ISO, good light and careful shooting is required.

0 upvotes
Mattwd
By Mattwd (Oct 2, 2012)

One of these amendments was to remove a feature that the engineers found too half-baked to conscionably include, so as not to garner the wrath of the displeased public.

The other amendment was to add a feature they originally found too half-baked to conscionably include, but then decided to include so as not to garner the wrath of a displeased public.

Both of these decisions are now garnering the wrath of a displeased public.

These companies are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

11 upvotes
Eleson
By Eleson (Oct 3, 2012)

Exactly so!!!

1 upvote
Denton Taylor
By Denton Taylor (Oct 2, 2012)

What we really need is a revised price. Then I might buy one.

17 upvotes
Infared
By Infared (Oct 2, 2012)

++++++100
Premium price should include premium features..and then some!

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
rrizw
By rrizw (Oct 3, 2012)

but it have premium features. Zeiss lens, FF, compact body

0 upvotes
brendon1000
By brendon1000 (Oct 4, 2012)

Price should fall pretty quickly as I doubt there will be too many adopters.

1 upvote
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 8, 2012)

well, you could leave us the same choice with interchangeable lenses, and the choice to get cheaper lenses. Imagine the same single lens camera with a correct Sigma glass of 20 mm and another with 30 mm, an external VF included, at a price of 1400$, would you buy one of the both, I would, maybe the both.

0 upvotes
chlamchowder
By chlamchowder (Oct 2, 2012)

The highest shutter speeds not being available at wide apertures is a little disappointing, because one major use of high shutter speeds is to let you shoot the lens wide open in bright sunlight without overexposure.

1 upvote
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Oct 2, 2012)

That's almost certainly why Sony originally reported it as being 1/2000th max at all apertures, rather than allowing it to go faster at F4 and smaller - to avoid disappointment.

Allowing the use of its full capability can only be seen as a good thing.

19 upvotes
ryanshoots
By ryanshoots (Oct 2, 2012)

Common for this type of shutter. It's simple physics. Slap on a ND filter.

11 upvotes
Uaru
By Uaru (Oct 2, 2012)

Unfortunately, there are technical limitations on how fast leaf shutter can work.

But there is solution. ND filters.

That is why there is even a built-in ND8 filter in Fuji X100 - VERY convenient I must admit.

4 upvotes
redhed17
By redhed17 (Oct 2, 2012)

Is it possible to easily attach a ND filter?

A lens with a very wide aperture like this should have a fast shutter speed, and/or a built in ND filter imho. :-/

Dropping continuous AF seems a bit poor too. It may not have been a good implementation, but it's better than not having it.

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

I have to say it would have been great if Sony had a built in ND filter on this camera considering the price and considering the type of camera it is.

1 upvote
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Oct 3, 2012)

It seems to accept a 49mm filter so...yes an ND filter can easily be attached. I have a lot of familiarity with leaf shutters and the fact that it reaches 1/2000 at all apertures is stupendous considering that not long ago 1/500 was the max even on small shutters. We "suffered" syncing our flashes in sun with "only" 1/500 and ISO 100 film. Then again, we weren't obsessed with the current shallow DOF fashion

3 upvotes
harry cannoli
By harry cannoli (Oct 3, 2012)

Mr Butler, does the lens have filter threads? Is there a connector for remote shutter release?

I've looked but haven't seen mention of these necessities in the specs I have found.

Thanks

0 upvotes
Rooru S
By Rooru S (Oct 3, 2012)

There is a threaded cable release for RX1 if that's what you're asking for. Look for pictures of the shutter button. About the filter thread..it's a 49mm.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/sony-rx1-hands-on-first-look-preview-20110

Here you can see it clearly.

0 upvotes
abi170845
By abi170845 (Oct 2, 2012)

And it is being delayed again, supposed to be shipping November, now December. I read Steve Huffs on hand quick preview and he took some shots with it around his house with the AF-C switch, but I do not know if he uses it. I am checking off this product off my to buy list and definitely getting the Canon 24mmLv.2 instead. No new stuff that really tickled me accept the RX-1 and the A99, and now Sony's revisions made me more skeptical about the RX-1.

0 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Oct 2, 2012)

It was always "December" shipping for RX1 from the very first day of announcement. A99 was on supposed to be shipping end of October/November, not RX1.

9 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Oct 2, 2012)

Not sure why they can't implement AF-C. There are mirrorless cameras that track OK, and there are those like the Nikon 1 that are extremely good a tracking a moving subject. It may not be a big deal with such a camera and focal length, but it's a bit odd to leave it off at this price point.

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

Maybe bigger glass. It's not a trivial issue to move that big lens fast.

5 upvotes
km25
By km25 (Oct 2, 2012)

Leaf shutters are good for flash sync.. But for very day use FP is so much better. I saw this "change" coming. In the olden days, Rolli came out with a 1/800 electro leaf shutter, it had the same caveats. This camera was not well thouht out.

0 upvotes
AlanG
By AlanG (Oct 2, 2012)

Leaf shutters have minimal vibration and are extremely quiet. So it is a good choice in a fixed lens camera like this one. 1/2000th sec. is very fast for a leaf shutter and it is unlikely one would often need a faster speed when using a 35mm lens.

I used Rollei 6006 gear for years and the shortest speed on my lenses was 1/500th. I had no problem with that and rarely even used that speed on it. Some view camera shutters top out at 1/125th.

6 upvotes
scott_mcleod
By scott_mcleod (Oct 2, 2012)

The use of a leaf shutter with it s extremley low vibration may go some way to mitigate the lack of any kind of stabilization, which IMO is an extraordinary omission at this pricepoint, and the one thing (besides price!) that would probably be a "show-stopper" for me with this camera. YMMV.

1 upvote
Carbon111
By Carbon111 (Oct 2, 2012)

Stabilization for a 35mm? Why? An outbreak of delirium tremens? ;)

6 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

@Scott- stabilization is a bit overrated. For this camera having an F2.0 lens, 35mm and very good high iso performance virtually eliminates in my book that need. If you are shooting street life (which is probably one of the biggest domain this camera will excel at), in body image stabilization or optical won't save you.

4 upvotes
ageha
By ageha (Oct 3, 2012)

IS is always good to have!

2 upvotes
scott_mcleod
By scott_mcleod (Oct 3, 2012)

@Raist3d - I know, you can get decent results in pretty low light using a FF camera with a 50/1.4 lens cranked to about ISO3200. Street shooting is about as far from my bag as you could get (well almost) - but for an all-round travel/hiking camera, I have been in plenty of situations where IS is a huge asset (e.g. caves at EV 3), as freezing subject motion is irrelevant and you at least have the *option* of keeping the ISO under control... otherwise you might as well be using an EOS-M with a stabilized zoom lens at ISO800. Everyone's needs are different, I just wish there was room in the Sonnar for OIS.

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

@scott- I understand but I think people forget the miracle this camera is already engineering wise- look at the space! Honestly, would it be really all that easy to put IBIS or OIS? I don't think it's that trivial. The camera would be even more expensive and probably couldn't be made as small.

I say given this new sensor has apparently spectacular high ISO performance Sony got the priorities right. The lens is relatively fast, the high ISO is there. Sony is giving you a special mode to put 2 more stops of ISO by taking 6 consecutive shots.

I will agree with you we all have different needs, but most of the time i see stabilization used is as this thing that many rely a bit too much. But Thanks for clarifying your specific needs, you are right everyone's different. Do keep in mind the engineering challenges in putting IS though. Not a trivial thing to do on the non trivial full frame camera!

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

@ageha- no, IS is not always good to have. If you have a high shutter speeds it may actually mess your shot. Depending on the shooting you do, you may forget and leave it on for a tripod shot or high speed shutter shot. It often gives a false sense of security.

So, not saying it's bad but it's not always good imho. But most importantly- it would have made the camera bigger and more expensive. Given the lens is relatively fast and the high ISO good, I think Sony got the priorities right. Small matters here. It's the unique selling proposition.

0 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 3, 2012)

It is so strange to see what all this newbies ask a camera to have. The times we shot with 1/1000th and a leaf shutter on a medium format is not so far behind and in medium format still existing. A leaf shutter is silent. For those that do not know what a leaf shutter is, it is a shutter that works the same as the diaphragm of a lens. Leaf shutters are slower and if Sony get 1/4000 out of one, it is a performance. Now, nobody asked them to put such a complicated item in this camera. A curtain shutter would have made the camera 1/4 inch thicker. At that size it has, it is anyway not pocketable, so a quarter more or less.

0 upvotes
sumit kishore
By sumit kishore (Oct 2, 2012)

Rushing is okay if this product was basically to test waters before a mirrorless FF.

1 upvote
Noirist
By Noirist (Oct 2, 2012)

I hope they add a dedicated dial to set the shutter speed.

0 upvotes
harry cannoli
By harry cannoli (Oct 3, 2012)

For 3K one would expect a serious user interface. At the very least, seperate dials for shutter and aperture. With Sony you never know, you may have to dig into the menus to get there.

Can't wait for a comprehensive review when Sony puts the camera into production.

I'll say this for Sony. I give them credit for attempting this.

Can't wait to compare full size images from the Sony and the DP2M.

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Oct 3, 2012)

@Harry - well they already said one of the dials can be used for shutter control and the ring does have an aperture ring.

2 upvotes
stuntmonkey
By stuntmonkey (Oct 2, 2012)

No continuous AF for stills but AF in movies? Inevitable comparison to the D600, which can do subject tracking in liveview. Sounds like Sony are rushing to market; it wouldn't likely be a good implementation but it's conceivable in the year 2012.

2 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (Oct 2, 2012)

If D600 tracking in liveview mode is as as bad as D7000, most likely it would be the same, then it would be useless anyway.

3 upvotes
Quash
By Quash (Oct 2, 2012)

Perhaps adding a shutter dial would have been a better place to start. And EVF. Without either it is difficult to rationalize this as anything more than a toy camera with a FF sensor. Difficult to take this camera seriously if Sony doesn't. The price for a good FF sensor and good wide aperture fixed lens I can handle. The absence of basic manual dials with visible settings, as they have with aperture and exposure control, and a viewfinder puts this toy camera beyond my interest.

1 upvote
Rooru S
By Rooru S (Oct 3, 2012)

it is a toy for rich people. There is an EVF available but an external one (you got to buy it, shame on Sony), but in S and M mode, you get control over shutter speed with the rear dial. But that same dial, in other modes, like A mode, will be customizable for other things like ISO control.

But there is one thing I can say about Sony, they first release a camera with some physical limitations (no built-in EVF, no front dial, etc) and then, come up with a great sucessor. (check the history about NEX-series cameras, first bound with physical limitations, No Built-in EVF, no direct controls, no hot shoe, then they come up with NEX-7 and then NEX-6) So expect next year probably, a succesor with everything people wanted on the RX1.

Seems like Sony wants to prepare the ground for upcoming models rather than create havoc at first. Shame on Sony.

1 upvote
Paul_B Midlands UK
By Paul_B Midlands UK (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes as a NEX5N owner it is irriating that when the suns out the camera is a pain to use so you fork out another 200 notes for the (superb) electronic viewfinder (only to find you can no longer put on the lens hood in closed position on the pancake lens) and of course have no possibility to use the flash anymore. I would love the new RX but the price is ridiculous and especially without the viewfinder that everyone would want. They know how to leech money out of all their customers, its a clear marketing and sales strategy. Create an demand, milk the customer and then milk em some more. Bring out the better model a couple years later, then its a must have upgrade for the early adopters as by then they have some new money in the piggie bank. Thanks Sony.

0 upvotes
Shamael
By Shamael (Oct 3, 2012)

The price is not ridiculous. Look at the price of a Zeiss 35-2 lens and you will see that the camera is here given free of charge with it. But, none of us have asked for THAT kinda toy. If Sony had listened to the market demands, a FF NEX would be here now or announced. FF E mount is a reality now, and as soon as appropriate lenses are on the market, FF NEX will come. Would like to see the comments if Sony had put on the market a FF NEX and no lenses, an EA3 adapter instead. So, buying RX1 is a question of wana have something non common or waste money. Better wait and buy a NEX-6 in the mean time.

0 upvotes
sroute
By sroute (Oct 3, 2012)

I wouldn't want a full frame NEX and be forced to use an adapter to put full frame lenses on it. At that point you might as well buy the smallest full frame DSLR.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 118