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Fujifilm: more X-mount cameras and X10 firmware on their way

By dpreview staff on Jan 12, 2012 at 23:32 GMT

CES 2012: Fujifilm has confirmed in a discussion with dpreview, more details about its plans for the X-system. It also said a firmware update for the X10 aimed at reducing the 'white-orb' problem is due in early February, if not before. The firmware update, that addresses the hard-edged white discs or orbs generated when highlight regions clip, will reduce but not completely remove the effect. Meanwhile, the company hinted the X-Pro1 will be accompanied by at least one less expensive model.

The company says it sees the X-Pro1 as occupying a space above the level of current high-end mirrorless cameras, such as Sony's NEX-7, but below the level of Leica's full-frame, manual focus M9 rangefinder. With this in mind, it launched the X-Pro1 with a trio of lenses aimed at pro and enthusiast photographers (there are few examples of systems that start without a consumer-grade zoom). It says the 60mm and 35mm lenses require 'almost no correction,' while distortion from the 18mm lens is corrected automatically (we'll look at this more closely when reviewable cameras become available).

There was a suggestion of how the hybrid viewfinder will behave with zoom lenses. The intention is that the brightlines projected into the viewfinder will zoom in response to the lens being zoomed, allowing the use of the optical finder, rather than just the EVF mode.

It says it certainly expects the X-Pro1 to be some photographers' only camera, rather than a small camera to support a DSLR. The decision to target high-end, dedicated photographers has been buoyed by the company's success in selling its premium-priced fixed-lens large sensor X100 camera: 'We didn't know who was going to buy the X100,' explains Fujifilm Digital Imaging director Adrian Clarke: ' but twice as many people bought them as we expected.'

Click here to read our hands-on Fujifilm X-Pro1 preview


Our hands-on preview of the X-Pro1


Walkthrough of the X-Pro1 with Fujifilm US' Kayce Baker:

Comments

Total comments: 184
12
Resilience
By Resilience (Feb 9, 2012)

Just wanna know if the firmware is ready? I guess now is the early Feb? Anyone knows?

0 upvotes
Eyes
By Eyes (Jan 27, 2012)

Holy molly, so many options. Is that a PDA or a camera? point & shoot.
A photographer needs a good silent camera with a perfect lens, Perfect sensor and a shutter/ F choice, and that's it.

0 upvotes
Rip57
By Rip57 (Jan 20, 2012)

I like the direction this camera is going from a usability standpoint, especially the shutter speed dial on top coupled with the aperture ring around the lens. That is a solid configuration that served photographers well for many years and I'm glad to see it making a comeback. I'd especially love to see theses features on non-"pro" cameras (at non-"pro" prices) as well.

1 upvote
Bill3R
By Bill3R (Jan 18, 2012)

I like the X10. It has all the features I am looking for in a take everywhere point and shoot such as a manual zoom, small alloy body, raw capability, all the external controls and a view finder. I would purchase one except for these disappointing deal breakers:

Poor or mistaken focusing.
Unacceptable white orb problem.

If Fuji had a complete fix they would have a buyer here.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
kon23
By kon23 (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm in the market for a new camera to replace or be an alternative to my Ricoh GX100. My shortlist for functional and cost reasons is wittled down to either the Panasonic GX1 (with X lens and buy a fisheye) or Sony Nex 5n (Twin lens kit with Fisheye + Ultrawide convertors).

I loved the Fujifilm X10 in my hands at local Jessops but it's resulting images aren't much to write home about.

I hope that this little brother for the X-Pro1 can match spec and the image quality of the Nex 5n. I might hold out on making a purchase until this new camera has been announced.

Mind you, with the Sony & Panasonic models i'm after being out of stock across the UK and won't be coming in until late February I might not have a choice.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 18, 2012)

I am not getting this. What are you buying, pls?

0 upvotes
kon23
By kon23 (Jan 18, 2012)

Hehe. Either the Panasonic GX1 or Sony Nex 5n after extensive research and playing with each.
Neither is available until late february.
By then Fujifilm mightve announced the little brother to the Pro so it might be the case that then becomes an option too.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 20, 2012)

There probably won't be a "little brother" to the Fuji X-Pro1 for another 6 months to a year, I would think. They have tons of new model camera out there now already.

0 upvotes
policeman0077
By policeman0077 (Jan 15, 2012)

a low price version without hybrid viewfinder and more compact body would be interesting

1 upvote
fberns
By fberns (Jan 15, 2012)

true for me too!
and... the addition of (just a few) even more compact (and preferably cheaper) lenses, foremost something like a short and lightweight 2,0/35mm prime.

Very well done, Fuji!
I think you spotted a market gap!
Sony and Samsung seem to mainly think of features and numbers that mainly impress, but they miss things that count in the your daily photographing experience.
Im mean usablitily and a reasonable range of good quality lenses!

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 16, 2012)

How about just getting something that somebody actually MAKES? Instead of perennially wishing for something that is not being made.

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 16, 2012)

"a low price version without hybrid viewfinder and more compact body would be interesting."

For the ALMIGHTY CANON, US$800 is about as "low as they ever want to go."

0 upvotes
haziz
By haziz (Jan 26, 2012)

Without hybrid viewfinder??? Why??? For most users the main attraction is the window finder. Now if only they had added a real rangefinder and used a manual helical in the lens instead of manual focus by wire it would have been perfect.

0 upvotes
sockie
By sockie (Jan 15, 2012)

I would like to know if the X mount lenses project an image circle large enough to cover a full frame sensor? Certainly, for me, that would explain the slightly odd focal legnths and maximum apertuers of the three proposed lenses that we have heard about so far! And has already been hinted at by Fujifilm, this camera is just the first in a line of such Xpro cameras.

Fujifilm certainly recognised the importance of a fast lens and depth of field control with the X100, so for me, I find the current X-pro lens line up a bit odd. Perhaps it is wishfull thinking, but with the possible demise of Kodak's sensor division (perhaps medium format sensors will survive), will we see a Leica branded version of the X-pro 1 with an M mount at the Photokina show? Or even better, a full frame version? Will this be the start of a new Leica + Fujifilm tie up? Will a Leica M10 and equivalent Fuji camera be borne from this? Yes, perhaps wishfull thinking, but I have my fingers tightly crossed!!!

1 upvote
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Jan 15, 2012)

how would that explain the focal lengths?

0 upvotes
sockie
By sockie (Jan 15, 2012)

18 x1.5 = 27mm equivalent, and not 28mm.
35 x1.5 = 52.5mm equivalent, and not 50mm

If you are designing a system from the ground up, and can afford to take on such considerations, it just seems a bit odd to me to not have your focal lengths translate into the classically recognised focal lengths.

60 x1.5 = 90mm equivalent, which is fair enough, but 2.4 max aperture is an odd choice (granted it is said to technically be a macro lens though)

Also, if you are designing a camera with an APS-C sized sensor from the ground up, and have the engineering skill of Fujifilm, then it is a bit peculiar that the camera and lenses are virtually the same size as its most comparable competitor the Leica M9, which is full frame... unless of course, the X pro 1 system has the capability of housing a full frame sensor too. This would mean that the 18mm and 35mm lenses that have been announced would become pretty amazing given their maximum apertures! That would be my greatest wish!

1 upvote
CFynn
By CFynn (Jan 15, 2012)

Look at the photos of the camera without a lens - It doesn't look like there is room for a "full frame sensor" - especially given the position of the electric contacts. Lenses are often not *precisely* the focal length given. I'll bet there are many "50mm" lenses that are actually 52mm.

28mm, 50mm and 90mm equiv makes perfect sense for a camera like this even if the focal lengths of a couple of lenses are 1 or 2 mm off.

Interestingly there have been several persistent rumors that fuji may produce a larger than full-frame (medium format) camera similar to this.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (Jan 16, 2012)

135 film is one format among many, and not a well thought one in the first place (only to use low quality but cheaper film at the time).

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 14, 2012)

Re. WHITE ORBS/WHITE DISCS in VIDEO MODE:

It is rather hard to sweep this under the floor for still photos. In fact, I am a bit surprised at people buying the X-S1, even though it has the same exact sensor as the X10 where the issue first manifested itself, correct?

Is a "firmware fix" even possible? Not being a gear-head, I don't really know. Fortunately, the issue does not seem to affect the camera in video mode at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhLIip26xuw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEfzbpOpPTM

I detected no white dsics or orbs anywhere, not even at :12 into the Moscow clip, looking at the vehicle headlights on the Mockba River embankment.

So, what would be the present day recommendation for folks interested in the X-S1 (and X10)? Thanks!

0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 14, 2012)

Let's see now, based on what I had seen on VIDEO CLIPS coming out of the X10 and X-S1, the white discs are not present at all. "Only" when taking still pictures. Depending on the situation and the level of zooming in, it can be nasty and ruin and otherwise okay picture, right?

The PROPER FIX would be to redesign the CMOS sensor and then have Fujifilm replace the sensor in all of the hitherto sold X10 and X-S1 cameras. Of course, they will not do that, thus the promised partial fix via a firmware. Since they are saying it won't fix it totally, it must be a sensor issue, after all.

And how about the new, much-touted X-Pro1's sensor, will that also be affected this way?

Didn't anyone in "MADE IN JAPAN" Fujiland notice anything at any time -- BEFORE they designed, built, tested, and shipped these new camera models? Don't answer that, please.

We can't really be expected to blame the nasty UFO aliens for every single white disc appearance in X10 and X-S1 still photos, or can we?

0 upvotes
sanhodo
By sanhodo (Jan 18, 2012)

Francis,

How do we get this orb thing? Haven't seen it on images made with my X 10. Do all the cameras have the white disc problem?

0 upvotes
raztec
By raztec (Jan 14, 2012)

I've said it before, manufacturers do not do their best these days. It's not like the old days where you build the best you can and hope to sell as many as possible for a reasonable price that will give you a reasonable profit.

These days, the marketers, in their quest to maximize profit, always hold something back, so that you are continuously left wanting and will get the next camera, which will again have more features but not have quite everything you need.

I applaud Fuji for bucking the trend and doing what appears to be the best they can. The X-100 sales should have taught them something. People for whom photography is a passion will buy 2, or 3, or 4 cameras because each serves a different purpose.

If Nikon and Canon ever think clearly with long term sales in mind, they would realize that if they put out range finder style mirror-less cameras with multiple lens adapters, they would boost the sales of all their cameras and lenses.

3 upvotes
Neodp
By Neodp (Jan 14, 2012)

' but twice as many people bought them as we expected.'

Hello! You manufacturers keep acting like you know what people will buy, but you are not always doing your best, why? Surprise, surprise! I guess there is a market, after-all, for "mirror-less" cameras, huh? It's a red hot one.

BTW, we know you are milking the first adopters now, just because this is one of the few cameras, to get MOST things right (there will never be a perfect camera). What gets me, is why camera companies do not do thier best. Such as Fuju is playing at, here. But then there's the price. Fuji, do not mistake pent-up demand for a balanced, state of the art photographers camera, as a pricing guide. You're going to miss the mass market (more total profit), if you do. I'm sure this camera will still be said to be for a certain class of photographer, when really, it's simply far over priced.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Neodp
By Neodp (Jan 14, 2012)

People we have to get away form the "real" cameras being thousands of dollars. That's just stupid! I don't care if $2000 is nothing for you. You'd be surprised to know, I can pay that. I'm just not. IT'S A CAMERA! Not a brick of gold.

1 upvote
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 14, 2012)

You are absolutely right. Trouble is with so many idiots prepared not only to spend an arm and a leg but also then to do the same time and time again for a miniscule upgrade, not only cameras and lenses but Photoshop too. The manufacturers are quite ready to fleece those of us like that.

Hey! Does anybody out there take decent pictures? Or is there not enough time after concentrating on keeping up to date with the latest equipment and choosing between the alternatives, time and time again?

3 upvotes
harold1968
By harold1968 (Jan 15, 2012)

tell me how the x-pro is over priced ?
it has
1. magnesium body
2. compact both
3. short back focal lens system - therefore smaller lenses and sharper
4. complex hybrid viewer
5. metal machined dials
6. newly developed sensor which looks very exciting
except for an advanced af system it seems to have everything in a small body and should be at least the price of a 7D

1 upvote
Neodp
By Neodp (Jan 15, 2012)

...and just exactly why is that? Because, this is not just demand. Do you really think manufacturing cost justifies $1000 per *each* camera body? Do you really think the absence of high quality cameras, at low prices, is impossible? Why? What is a camera, without real, balanced quality, and for reasonable prices?

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
1 upvote
FujicaST605
By FujicaST605 (Jan 14, 2012)

I don't imagine this is the same X-mount as the Fujica SLR's of the late 70"s?

0 upvotes
mklrss
By mklrss (Jan 14, 2012)

"twice as many people" waiting for bugs fixing and firmware update for our own bestseller - X100. X-Pro1 is a very interesting camera, but remember about all of fans of X100, who support your idea.

2 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 14, 2012)

I made a composite of images of the X-Pro 1, Canon G1 X and my choice of second camera, the Nikon D5000. In the absence of the actual equipment, it helps to come to conclusions about how useful each of them might be as a second camera.

Have a look at www.flickr.com/photos/contrajur/6695505971/in/photostream and, if you click on the image, you can see it larger and clearer.

There are also links there to so far to a small number of my photos to prove that I do not spend all my time on such trivialities!

0 upvotes
iflash
By iflash (Jan 14, 2012)

Has anyone evaluated the amplitude of the shutter release. it sounded like a canon (BANG!) going off in the video. This was one of the truly elegant aspects of the X100 - its almost totally silent shutter. I want a silent X200 with an equivalent 35mm lens of about 50mm or near normal (just like the middle lens of the X-Pro1). I want all of the known bugs of the X100 cleaned up and it has to be on the shelf at about the same price as the X100. In other words, the X100 as it should have been when it was released. Oh, and for good measure, it would be nice to have a few of the refined aspects of the X-Pro1. Maybe that is what the Fuji guys mean by a lower level X-Pro1. Will it be an X-Pro0.5 or an X200?

1 upvote
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 14, 2012)

Bugzilla galore, it seems.

I was looking to get the Fuji X-S1 26x bridge-cam superzoom, but I'm just not too sure any more. I will now probably have to wait until/if Fujifilm issues a "WHITE ORBS/WHITE DISC CORRECTION FIRMWARE UPDATE" for the X-S1 (as well as the X10, of course). If you get it now and the firmware update supposed to happen sometime in February won't help, it'll be too late to return the thing.

This is a pretty glaring problem from Fujifilm -- I am now wondering what else could possibly be wrong with these cameras? I guess they decided that the camera is "MADE IN JAPAN," and the product testing is done in the real world by real users.

I am sorry to have to read about the issues involving the X100, as that is a very expensive camera to start with. Whatever has happened to "MADE IN JAPAN" quality control, anyhow? Gone by the way of China?

0 upvotes
nikkor35f2
By nikkor35f2 (Jan 18, 2012)

take some time to look through your images and pick out those that you think would have been a goner if taken by fuji cam due to the orb thing.

it is a problem but a very very small problem that affects a very small percentage of images. ( unless you sell lamps and is required to take lamp pictures all the time.)

highlights push attention away. infact, glaring highlights used effective can help draw viewer to what you want them to see.

make the best out of the camera.

0 upvotes
Pik2004
By Pik2004 (Jan 14, 2012)

Nice, more mirrorless APS sensor cameras to choose from. I really like the dial control!

0 upvotes
g7star
By g7star (Jan 14, 2012)

I don't get the point. When it's the size of DSLR it should perform like DSLR and do better than smaller ILC options (for the comparable price). Otherwise it's just personal preference on styling and lens choices.

1 upvote
simon65
By simon65 (Jan 14, 2012)

Agreed.

Even worse Fuji seem to have decided that in order for the Xpro1 to seen seen as a worthy rival of the Leica M9, it has to be the same size as the M9.

This decision blissfully ignores the fact that the Leica M9 is the size it is because it houses a full frame 35mm sensor, while the X-Pro1 only fires on an APS-C!

Instead of sticking like glue to the M9 design, Fuji should have realized that his was an opportunity to fill a yawning gap in the market - for a tradtionally styled, high-end, APS-C sensor camera with a quality zoom lens(ses), all wrapped up in a conveniently small package.

Alas sometimes companies make really bad design decisions.

The X-Pro 1 looks like a great camera, but it's far too BIG to be pratical.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
FeignPhoto
By FeignPhoto (Jan 14, 2012)

Big? Zoom lenses? Have you ever shot with a D3, or a DSLR with a vertical grip? I do every day. The X-Pro1 is tiny in comparison, plus I don't want to be holding a tiny camera, a good grip on a sensibly sized camera is important, at least for me, and I own cameras of just about every shape and size.

Additionally, zoom lenses on a rangefinder? You've got to be kidding me. Sure you could use these with the LCD, but I don't see why any professional would want a zoom lens on this thing. Clearly, you don't understand the point of using a rangefinder.

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Jan 15, 2012)

"This decision blissfully ignores the fact that the Leica M9 is the size it is because it houses a full frame 35mm sensor, while the X-Pro1 only fires on an APS-C!"

Compared to all the technology and OVF/EVF solutions inside the X-Pro 1, Leica M9 is as empty in both content and concept as an old shoebox. Because it houses an old FF sensor means nothing. It's not the size, it's the performance.
Fuji's thinking is ways better and up to date, especially if they muster a smaller sensor to deliver the same and better output than any FF found in M9.
Also, Leica's lenses are prehistoric in concept compared to these new Fujis. Being all manual, brass and metal, they are heavier too. Fuji's are lighter and when taking all factors into equation, Leica's M9 is as impressive as an 18th century mechanical clock — a fine example of human engineering in mechanics we can admire, and applaud for its own sake. But far and away from any everyday use for everyday people today.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 15, 2012)

Zvonimir Tosic - What you say is extraordinary.

"Leica's lenses are prehistoric in concept compared to these new Fujis." I do not think anyone takes pictures with concepts. Those Summicron's were superb years ago when they first came onto the market and still are today.

"Leica's M9 is as impressive as an 18th century mechanical clock — a fine example of human engineering in mechanics we can admire, and applaud for its own sake. But far and away from any everyday use for everyday people today." Leicas were not built and hopefully still are not built for everyday people. That's is what made them special. They were made to be the best possible regardless of their affordability. If the Fuji X-Pro 1 were to be that good and long term engineered to last several decades then I would want to applaud them except the fact that they also make cameras for everyday people today would have to leave the doubt are they really good enough still to be around and worth using in 30 years time?

1 upvote
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 15, 2012)

Continuing from immediately above …

Before Leica started marketing relatively for them rubbish compacts made by other companies there was no doubt that a Leica was Leica worthy of the name. Once they started allowing their name to be used in Panasonic Lumix compact zoom lenses, one could not avoid the question which Leica are we talking about and does the original Leica still exist today?

As I said elsewhere a prewar Leica IIIa with an uncoated Elmar was so well made that it held its own even years after the war and against film cameras would still do pretty well today. That's is nothing to do with old technology and heavy metal lens assemblies. It is about three things only - quality, quality and quality.

Today even the best, while they do deliver will be on the scrap heap in at most 10 years time. That is partly because science will have advanced by then but also because profit is the driver not the pursuit of excellence and quality that will still hold its own 30 years hence.

1 upvote
simon65
By simon65 (Jan 15, 2012)

@keepreal

I agree with what you say, however there is still commercial reality out there, and the fact is that Leica has had at least two years to stick an interchangeable lens system or even just a fixed zoom, on the front of its otherwise excellent APS-C senor Leica X1, and has failed.

The result is that Fuji are likely to steal what is meant to have been their market from right underneath Leica's nose. I admire their quality and enduring appeal but sometimes Leica's refusal to move with the market, far less lead it, is frustrating, and may ultimately be their undoing.

0 upvotes
simon65
By simon65 (Jan 16, 2012)

@FeignPhoto

Sitting on my desk is a Contax TVS II. Its a full frame (35mm) film rangefinder with a 28-56 mm zoom on the front. The zoom works fine through a variable viewfinder without any need of an LCD screen on the back.

Whether its a 'professional' camera or not is a moot point and a rather silly one, as is your point about rangefinders and professionals. You pays your money, you take your choice, and I'll bet most camera buyers would prefer a zoom on a rangefinder, especially when the viewing system works as well as it does on my 12 year old TVS II.

0 upvotes
Davidgilmour
By Davidgilmour (Jan 14, 2012)

So, when do we get a firmware fix for the X100?

3 upvotes
Unr3touched
By Unr3touched (Jan 14, 2012)

Well, I haven't heard about an upcoming firmware update, but I'm definitely waiting for one as well...

1 upvote
Jonne Ollakka
By Jonne Ollakka (Jan 13, 2012)

I already have the X100, so knowing how fantastic that camera is, I'm really tempted to get this and maybe sell the X100. With my collection of Voigtländer M-mount lenses and all the russian stuff I have, I'd be in business from the get go. Just have to wait for Ebay to come up with the M-mount adapter.

1 upvote
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (Jan 14, 2012)

Fujifilm has said it will be making an M-mount adapter.

1 upvote
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 13, 2012)

A lot of interesting comments at DPR about the XPro1. This is my last word - I have just decided against it.

Judging from what I have read here, I think many older people, including me, yearn for the best of the film era enhanced by what is possible with digital technology rather than also degraded by it. Hasselblad, Rolleiflex, Leica M were beautiful - works of art and engineering in their own right as well as superb quality and at a fairly reasonable price. Even several cheaper cameras like the Kodak Retina up to the IIIc were refined and a pleasure to use. Kodak in their heyday.

Today the best cameras are very, very expensive but far surpass in the quality they can deliver. But the quality in their form and handling - it's chalk and cheese but which way round?

Those were the days mid last century and the XPro1 is only a poor imitation costing an arm and a leg. You youngsters do not know what all round quality is. Most of you have never seen it in anything!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Jan 13, 2012)

I don't think your comment about the price of X-Pro 1 is justified. 40 years ago, people in the Western countries had to work for a full month, even two or more (and leave nothing behind) to get a 35mm camera and one lens.
If you add in inflation to compare that cost with today's, you'll see that only Leica's M series and their lenses follow the same trend. Perhaps to some extent hi-end Nikons and Canons.
In those terms, they still represent valuable investment, same as a camera in old days did. And you knew you purchased a quality thing because new models by the same manufacturer were not announced every month, and did not become obsolete the next month, like they are today!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 13, 2012)

"And you knew you purchased a quality thing because new models by the same manufacturer were not announced every month, and did not become obsolete the next month, like they are today!"

So I am glad you agree with me. Cameras today may be cheaper in terms of earnings power but only if you ignore the march of technology and keep with what you have got at least for ten years or more.

The progress is fast but not quite as fast as most people seem to think. They get lured into wasting money by very persuasive manufactures and pundits in the media whose objective is profit above anything else.

I will give you an example. I sold my son an Olympus C-5060 which I bought just to see what digital was all about. It was a high quality compact and cost me 295 GBP in 2005. Later, he wanted something smaller to go backpacking so got a Panasonic Lumix TZ6, paying a little more. He now takes the Olympus on holiday with him again. It has 5 mb instead of 10 but gives better results.

0 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (Jan 13, 2012)

Bad example. I don't think comparing an old 4X zoom camera to a new 12x travel zoom has any meaning. He could have bought an LX5 and gotten better pictures, and more control instead.

0 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 14, 2012)

I agree that it does affect the issue but the Olympus lens is superior at any focal length they have in common despite it being recorded with half the pixels.

Further to my original comments and Zvonimir Tosic disagreeing with me, look at the price of the Canon PowerShot G1 X, which I expect to be good. However, it does not even have interchangeable lens and how many full months earnings leaving nothing behind to get for most people?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
FeignPhoto
By FeignPhoto (Jan 14, 2012)

While I see your points about quality issues these days, I hardly find it appropriate that you use consumer-grade cameras as examples.

Have you used a current-gen flagship DSLR? Hell, have you used a modern film camera?

I share your love for old cameras, and am a collector actually. As much as I love my old cameras, when it comes to work, I prefer the modern approach to camera design.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Francis Carver
By Francis Carver (Jan 14, 2012)

My first photo and film cameras were Soviet and East German built models (1960s & 70s), and they were of heavy metal construction and built like tanks.

But that does not mean that all the old-time cameras were high-end and wonderful. They had plenty of metal bodies clunker-cams back then, just like we've got plastic bodies clunker-clams now. AT least, there was no firmware to update, and the n maybe finer that the update did not do the trick.

Yeah, you had to work for a lot longer to get a good camera, but then again, you did not feel that you had to "trade-up" to another one every few years.

0 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 14, 2012)

FeignPhoto - answers to both questions yes. Your point about consumer grade cameras is valid but who can afford only flagships cameras. I have one now, the Nikon D300. And the C-5060 was prosumer grade.

Francis Carver - not all old-time cameras were clunkers but your last point is the clincher, isn't it? And you only are repeating what I said where I started!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 15, 2012)

FeignPhoto - I should have said this before:

The C-5060 is so good that I was able to print a beautiful shot my son took with it in China to 16 x 20 and you would have to look at it very closely from a few inches away to tell the difference had I taken it with my Nikon D300. That is surprising even for a top quality compact with 5 mb but it does prove that increasing megapixels is used as a marketing ploy by the manufacturers except for those who genuinely need them.

One of the cameras I had in the 1960s was a Contaflex with interchangeable lenses but only that part in front of the iris and Compur shutter. The director of a course I went to at the then famous Ealing Polytechnic said it was impossible to get top quality in a 16 x 20 from 35mm and he was a renowned photographer. He admitted he was wrong when he saw what I was able to achieve with Pan F in Beutler.

Continued...

1 upvote
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 15, 2012)

... continued

The Contaflex was made almost to Leica standards. Included in the price was service which they explained when I carelessly dropped the tele lens onto a wooden floor from chest level and badly dented, causing the cement between some the glasses also to fail but fortunately no actual glass shattering. Returned absolutely perfect, like new for only 5 GBP.

Moreover in the 1950s my father bought and I sometimes borrowed his prewar Leica IIIa with uncoated prewar Elmar 50mm, also postwar 90mm Elmar. That prewar equipment was a match for anything of 1950s or 1960s vintage except another Leica, Contax and one or two other cameras. Even today it would hold its own as regards the quality of the result with film with many of the few contemporary film cameras still made. Only the user interface would be better, not the results.

I had a Tele-Rolleiflex in the 1960s. Beautifully made and beautiful to use. If I were still using film, I would love to have one today.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
1 upvote
noirdude
By noirdude (Jan 16, 2012)

i may not as old as you, but i've been taking care some old cameras inherited from my father, hasselblad, nikon, canon, leica and rolleiflex. i've been enjoying shooting with both film & digital and learned that each have its advantage and disadvantage.

i hardly agree with you that the XPro1 is a poor imitation. technology gets better, and even in the old days you can't compare leica with fuji because they're in different league, so is today. each of them has its own good and bad, i'm sure of that.

take a leica M9 or the old M6 or 7 to shoot sport then try it using Nikon F6 or the more current D3 or D300, you won't get a good result with $5000 leica. or the other way around, go travel around the world with a D3 hanging in your neck and compare that with leica's much smaller size.. each was designed with a purpose for designated people..

and life goes on..

0 upvotes
Calvin Chann
By Calvin Chann (Jan 16, 2012)

Just because a camera has been superceded doesn't mean it is obsolete. There is nothing to stop it taking the same quality of pictures that it did before it became "obsolete". All that has happened is that a newer camera has come along with a few newer abilities. Doesn't make it obsolete though.

0 upvotes
inhaliburton
By inhaliburton (Jul 25, 2012)

You are right on about quality in days of yore!

0 upvotes
frelwa
By frelwa (Jan 13, 2012)

Fuji's Kayce Baker said some of the same things in her Imaging Resource interview as Adrian Clarke said the same day. But each of them mentioned things that the other one didn't. Here's Baker's news and views:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/12/imaging-resource-interview-kayce-baker-fujifilm

0 upvotes
Najinsky
By Najinsky (Jan 13, 2012)

DPR has now has had at least 3 discussions with Fujifilm since they made their request in the Fujifilm forum for questions we would like them to ask Fujifilm.

In responding to that request, I was not alone in asking for a statement regarding the failing Aperture Blade problem. And in DPRs reporting of the three (known) discussions, there has been no indication that the topic has been raised, let alone any answer given.

Would someone from DPR care to comment on whether or not they think the issue is real or imagined? If you think it is, or could be, real why not raise the issue with Fujifilm?

I believe, from experience, that the issue is real so I am confused by DPRs lack of engagement in this. It's much more serious than ORBs, at least for X100 owners!

0 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (Jan 14, 2012)

"And in DPRs reporting of the three (known) discussions, there has been no indication that the topic has been raised, let alone any answer given."

No company would ever give you a statement on this and if anything was mentioned to DPR, it was mentioned only confidentially and in unofficial capacity.

If problem is that widespread, users should better start thinking about a class action.

0 upvotes
mr moonlight
By mr moonlight (Jan 13, 2012)

Two things I love about rangefinder cameras that are missing from DSLR's.

-Compact body and lenses
-Being able to see outside the frame so you can anticipate what is entering it.

The M8/M9's are great, but they don't have AF and I don't really like carrying around 10K in camera gear to all the places I go. I've never been happy with my Digital camera setup and this camera looks like it could finally be the one to do it. I've been really happy with my X100, but it lacks in a few places such as start up time and interchangeable lenses. This camera solves both those issues so it will definitely be added to my bag.

Finally a camera maker to the risk and produced the camera so many photographers wanted.

1 upvote
JackM
By JackM (Jan 13, 2012)

"It says it certainly expects the X-Pro1 to be some photographers' only camera, rather than a small camera to support a DSLR."

Quoted for truth. This camera, while awesome, is no more portable or discrete than a DSLR. Therefore people like me who are fully invested in DSLR systems will not see this as a compliment to their existing kit. As such, I can't justify owning it.

Make something more portable (X100 size or smaller) with this sensor and X-mount, and I'm in. I'd also like to see an X200 with the fixed 35/2.0 and this new sensor.

5 upvotes
mr moonlight
By mr moonlight (Jan 13, 2012)

I have to disagree with you on a few points.

As for being discreet, the X-pro1 has no markings on the front, is very clean and is all just plain black. Every DSLR has their logo front and center not to mention a plethora of protrusions and some even have red markings on their bodies or lenses.

For portability.

5D II + 24 L - 5.75"W X 4.5"H X 5.5"D
T3i + 24f2.8 - 5.25"W X 4.0"H X 5.0"D
X-pro 1 + 18 - 5.50"W X 3.2"H X 3.2"D

There may not be much difference in width, but your cutting around 2" off your depth and an inch on height on even the smallest DSLR's. So yeah, I'd say that makes it a lot more portable than a DSLR. If you're wearing a large down jacket, it will fit in your pocket. It's no X-100, but it's less cumbersome than a Rebel.

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
5 upvotes
NetMage
By NetMage (Jan 13, 2012)

How does its size compare to a Olympus E520 or E620?

2 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

It is not all about size ;)

0 upvotes
Michael49
By Michael49 (Jan 13, 2012)

My 6 year old 5D still trumps my NEX 5N in terms of image quality (both low and high ISO), and that's with using equally good glass on each, so I'll be interested to see how the XP1 compares. The XP1 does look promising with this new sensor, especially with the lack on an AA filter.

2 upvotes
whtchocla7e
By whtchocla7e (Jan 13, 2012)

You mean in your dreams the 5D trumps the 5N at IQ?
I think that's more appropriate.

2 upvotes
Michael49
By Michael49 (Jan 13, 2012)

I've done multiple comparisons and in every case my 5d trumps the 5N.

2 upvotes
Michael49
By Michael49 (Jan 13, 2012)

Here you go....

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1073260/0?keyword=5d,5n#10210430

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1073975/0?keyword=5d,5n#10217770

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1074241/0?keyword=5d,5n#10220584

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
photoholiko
By photoholiko (Jan 14, 2012)

Are you comparing a FF sensor against an APS-C?

0 upvotes
simon65
By simon65 (Jan 13, 2012)

"the company hinted the X-Pro1 will be accompanied by at least one less expensive model."

I'm hoping it's the X100 with interchangeable lenses rather than another brick the size of the X-Pro1, which is bigger than many DSLRs!

2 upvotes
Raymond Wardenaer
By Raymond Wardenaer (Jan 13, 2012)

A brick? Have you ever seen a brick? The x-Pro 1 ix the right size for adults!

4 upvotes
Bangers and Mash
By Bangers and Mash (Jan 13, 2012)

X100 with interchangeable lenses would be a great idea. Even a fixed zoom lense would be nice. I would spring for one if they would make any of those changes.

Not seeing an XP1 as yet, I have my doubts of it being bigger than many dSLRs.

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
jorg14
By jorg14 (Jan 13, 2012)

Depends on the kind of shooting you do. Over the years I find myself striving for lighter and simpler. I'm trading in my DSLR for a small mirror-less as what I mostly do is vacations. I don't want to draw attention to myself, plus I think the best shots are made by the photographer rather than the equipment.

1 upvote
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

I am also hoping they are not going to reduce price by removing hybrid finder. Even pure EVF or nothing would be better than an "optical" hole/tunel.

0 upvotes
FeignPhoto
By FeignPhoto (Jan 14, 2012)

Try using an EVF in the dark. Have fun. Also, try anticipating things outside of the frame with an EVF. You can't compare a rangefinder to an SLR, yes they're both cameras, but it's like comparing an SLR to a TLR or a view camera. Specific tools, for specific jobs.

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
PolarHki
By PolarHki (Jan 13, 2012)

It would be great if that planned new X body below the X-Pro 1 would have:

- A micro four third-type sensor, with the same sensor technology as used in the X-Pro1 (so maybe image quality/resolution would get comparable to a "usual" APS-C sensor)

- Rangefinder style body, but smaller than X-Pro1 (maybe about like X100)

- Hybrid viewfinder like X-Pro1 / X100

- Fully articulated screen

- Decent built-in flash, in addition to external flash shoe

- A good range of buttons for direct manual control, although not necessarily as much as on the X-Pro 1 (won't be reasonable on a smaller body either)

Such a camera would be a clear buy, at least for me, but I believe for many others, too.

2 upvotes
frelwa
By frelwa (Jan 13, 2012)

Fuji's cheaper X-mount camera is certain to have an APS-C sensor. The company has said they don't intend to enter the micro four thirds market. They say they're aiming higher with the X-series. And it wouldn't make sense to have a M43 sensor in a camera with its shutter in the body that uses X-mount lenses designed to cover APS-C.

1 upvote
PolarHki
By PolarHki (Jan 14, 2012)

I can't fully see your point. When APS-C was introduced after the full frame film days, nobody claimed that it would not make sense to use an APS-C sensor on a full frame mount, and until today the APS-C DSLRs of all camera makers use the same mounts as the full frame cameras, even one could make up the same argument you made.

Moreover, I wrote "four third-type sensor", so not necessarily joining the M43 standard, but something of that size (like Canon did with the G1 X), in order to allow smaller lenses and body (even though the mount could be the same - similarly like APS-C DSLRs tend to be smaller with body and lenses than full frame DSLRs, thought they have the same mount).

0 upvotes
misterpepper
By misterpepper (Jan 14, 2012)

The X-pro1 body is 43mm deep, but the sensor is only 17.7mm from the flange, meaning you have almost a full inch behind the sensor. It seems like a lot of the m4/3 cameras manage to push the sensor very far back in the camera body. Assuming Fuji were to do the same thing I think they could make an x-mount camera with similar dimensions to the smallest m4/3 cameras, even with an APS-C sensor.

0 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

Reding your wish-list tells me nothing how shall that new camera be les expencive but lower quality, but that way, no, thank you.

0 upvotes
PolarHki
By PolarHki (Jan 14, 2012)

Interesting point, misterpepper. If that is the case, of course I would have nothing against an APS-C sized sensor.

nemark, I don't really catch what you try to say.

0 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 16, 2012)

PolarHki, what you said describing a hypothetical, cheaper Fuji X camera, with all mentioned things in it, tells me that it should not be cheaper, just different.

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 16, 2012)

PolarHki, what you said describing a hypothetical, cheaper Fuji X camera, with all mentioned things in it, tells me that it should not be cheaper, just different. And I don`t wish it to become cheap by removing EVF (save it hybrid if possible). As person with bad eyes for back LCD I`ll use EVF most of the time. That`s why I still stick with APS-C DSLR. And what I use only occasionally is electronic flash (about 20% of time), so it can be a little one in the pocket, if it shall save some space in the camera body for EVF. I believe I am not the only one with this kind of eye-problem, neither am minority.
And I agree about pure EVF in the dark (I already have that experience with live-view on DSLR). That`s why, altogether with pure lens line-up - camera is only matched by 1.8/24mm Zeiss, why NEX7 is far behind Fuji.

Comment edited 26 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Hoddo
By Hoddo (Jan 13, 2012)

Not as pretty as the X100 but this still does look a mighty fine camera. Anyone think they'll produce a version with a full frame sensor?

0 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

With a price close to Leicas?

0 upvotes
bchalifour
By bchalifour (Jan 13, 2012)

Finally an alternative to the M9 that comes at a relatively reasonable price, innovates in a rather esthetic and ergonomic body. If the promises are held and the lenses up to the quality of the one on the X100, these cameras will mark the definite return of Fuji among the great camera makers, appreciated and used by professionals and exacting amateurs alike.

2 upvotes
CharlesB58
By CharlesB58 (Jan 13, 2012)

Why mention a camera like this as a replacement for a FF dslr, much less any dslr? Why do some people not seem to get it that not every mirrorless camera is supposed to be a dslr replacement? To me it's an amusing (and sometimes annoying) aspect of the dslr/mirrorless "debate" that people keep saying "mirrorless can't do what my dslr can do..."

There are those of us who appreciate the "old school", 35mm rangefinder approach to photography. I would suggest people don't look a the X-Pro1 as a replacement for a dslr any more than people looked at the Leica M4 as a 35mm slr replacement during the film era.

The same goes for zooms. I'm sure they will come, but it's obvious Fuji is not trying to beat the competition "mano a mano" but rather is using the success of the X100 as a indicator of the niche they are wanting to fill.

3 upvotes
mr moonlight
By mr moonlight (Jan 13, 2012)

I think they talk about as being a replacement for a DSLR because the image quality (unconfirmed of course) matches up to DSLR's and it comes in a smaller rangefinder-esque package. There are a lot of DSLR owners out there who carry around a DSLR because there are no other options besides an M9 which is a bit out of most peoples budget.

I stopped carrying my DSLR around when I picked up my x100 because it had comparable image quality in a smaller package, but I wish it had interchangeable lenses and a faster start-up time. The X-pro1 has this with faster lenses to boot. My 5D + 50mm is pretty bulky and the x-pro1 has a much flatter body and more compact lenses but still feature a high quality build.

1 upvote
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 13, 2012)

I favour DSLRs but only because of the optical viewfinder precision and clarity, especially with zoom lenses. Nonetheless, I yearn for something at most half the weight and bulk. Both are an issue with my Nikon D300 with the Sigma 12-24mm and two additional, bigger and heavier zoom lenses. It is fine when out on a serious photo opportunity but less so when not, just wanting to lug the equipment along with you just in case of the unexpected.

In the early 1970s I lifted the latest Leica M to my eye in a shop just to satisfy my curiosity. It was way beyond my pocket. I turned the focusing ring and knew immediately when I had hit the spot without going past and coming back again even though I had never tried it before, the viewfinder optics were that good.

So, a mirrorless digital that has that precision and is affordable would demand some very serious thought. An X-Pro1 with the 15mm f/2.8 sounds like it might be just that and if there is a smaller nearly as good model, even better.

1 upvote
Nikonworks
By Nikonworks (Jan 13, 2012)

I read Thom Hogan's characterization of Fuji's move into a mirrorless niche:
" Minor bet made (by Fuji) by putting interchangeable primes on an updated X100 frame (upcoming X-Pro1)."

This suggests that we should not 'bet' (buy) the new Fuji X system until they raise their 'bet' perhaps by getting their zoom lenes to market.

Why invest in a new system that was not that much of an investment for Fuji to enter in the first place?

Can't wait until a production review.

0 upvotes
kanzlr
By kanzlr (Jan 13, 2012)

Thoms comment is simply untrue. The X-Pro1 has not much in common with the X100, except that they both target enthusiats.

new body
new sensor
new viewfinder
new lenses

yeah, totally an X100 with lens mount...

2 upvotes
marlinspike
By marlinspike (Jan 13, 2012)

Who cares about zooms? The whole point of these seems to be to bring modern cameras back down to the size and weight of the old film cameras, and primes are better suited to that purpose anyway. Sure, I own zooms, but I own more primes, and I wouldn't let a lack of zooms control my lens mount buying decision.

7 upvotes
mr moonlight
By mr moonlight (Jan 13, 2012)

Personally I could care less about getting a zoom on this camera and would rather they release more primes. I think most photographers in the market for this type of camera feel the same way. Still, even with this lens line-up they cover all the basic lenses.

As for not much of an investment. Any idea how much $$$ it takes to develop a new interchangeable lens camera system. Add on to it the R&D for the hybrid viewfinder & new sensor and you're talking quite a bit of cash.

To me it sounds like Fuji is pretty heavily invested in their X-series cameras and are just taking it a bit slow to make sure they do it right. It sounds like the X-100 was a bit of a test run and given it's popularity Fuji is now pushing forward and developing the whole line. X-100, X-10, X-pro1.

0 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 13, 2012)

I think you raise an important point. The X-Pro1 and its sister models will remain in their infancy until there is a comprehensive range of lenses, they and the bodies have been on the market some time and we all know for sure whether they are top notch or only nearly.

I envy the guy who has the money that he can spend a fortune easily and early but despise him for his superficiality in not knowing what he is doing other than flashing his wealth around.

If I have to wait until the dust has settled and the new Fuji equipment is a stable and predictable proposition, then I would do the same even if I had the means to jump more quickly. I did just that, waiting until I bought the Nikon D300 so that I knew what I was doing, not merely jumping on the bandwagon.

I get the impression that for some the pleasure is in the equipment. I am interested only in pictures, the end results.

“Two things rob people of their peace of mind: work unfinished and work not yet begun" Alexander Solzhenitsyn

0 upvotes
Joe Sesto
By Joe Sesto (Jan 13, 2012)

Since Fuji started with a 28 (eq), a fast normal and a 90 (eq) short tele-macro...I'm assuming that this system has been in the planning stage for some time. A while back 28 was the wide end of all fixed lens zoom compacts. Now many are being released with 24 (eq) on the wide ends. Fuji doesn't cover a 24 (16 on 1.5) until their last zoom. One of the most useful FLs in the photo world is a fast 35 (FF equiv coverage...regardless of sensor size, MF, LF, etc.) yet Fuji has the 23/2 coming out way downstream. If they are trying to attract FF users...Fuji must think Canon's lineup of Ls , i.e., 24L - 35L - 85L (non-macro) and 24~70/24~105 L zooms are misguided. I look at Fuji's FL choices, except the 21 & 35 primes, as a compromise attempt intended to attract those that want to step up from compacts...and yet it seems they want DSLR, Contax G-2 and Leica fans. I may be alone, but f/2.0 24 -35 - 90/100 (non-macro) and the mid-zoom would be great. IMO they are missing the boat.

1 upvote
picsnmorepics
By picsnmorepics (Jan 15, 2012)

I was a bit surprised by the lens lineup also. I guess I just discounted the 23mm because they figured they had that covered initially by the X100 users who added the Pro1 for versatility.

If you start with a 35mm f/1.4 as your base on APS-C, then 18mm makes good sense as a only-one WA focal length. That's an old FF/28mm standard. 60mm is then about the right spacing or a tele/portrait addition.

If you start with the 24mm f/1.4 or f/2 as your basic coverage lens on APS-C then a 16mm and 50mm are next good kit choices for a 3 lens combo.

It's a choice of whether you are offering a WA kit or a portrait kit - I think ;).

My preference is FF 24/35/50 for a street/travel camera - 16/24/35 APS-C. So this is missing the mark for me right now. The body size is also a bit large in that role. I also dislike the idea of individual diopter lenses because I often share my camera with my spouse and our requirements are different. The adjustable diopter on my X100 is far more friendly.

1 upvote
adan594
By adan594 (Jan 13, 2012)

Такие не ухоженные руки. Ужас!

0 upvotes
Codik
By Codik (Jan 13, 2012)

The X-Pro1 had better have amazing IQ if it is to succeed and replace both my X100 and my 5Dii...
If not, I will just keep the X100 and get the 5Diii when it comes out.

1 upvote
spidermoon
By spidermoon (Jan 13, 2012)

I hope a less expensive model, a smaller body may be possible if you remove the EVF/OVF. a direct competitor to the nex3/nex 5. A X103 with fixed touch screen lcd and a x105 with an articulated lcd :)

0 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

If you remove EVF, I won`t even look at it...
(With one, Canon G1x would be a great point-and-shoot camera)

0 upvotes
Trevor Kloeden
By Trevor Kloeden (Jan 13, 2012)

Don't care what anybody says I love my X100 and looking forward to the X-Pro1. Coming from a Leica M8.2 shooter who "may" finally give up on the Leica (love the M8.2 as well).

0 upvotes
PaulSnowcat
By PaulSnowcat (Jan 13, 2012)

So they've decided to aim above NEX7 and make "the only one" camera, not an addition to a DSLR and price it accordingly, i.e. very high... Risky.

NEX7 offers great IQ, alot more lenses, and lower price. So new FUJI's sensor must be something fantastic to make someone to prefer this camera.

2 upvotes
amd
By amd (Jan 13, 2012)

I agree that the NEX 7 is extremely tempting with regards to size and IQ.
However the price point of the NEX 7 is close to a EOS 7d (insane!), and the choice of compact high quality "native" lenses a disaster. I'm not planning to spend this amount of money to have my "old" Contax G lenses without AF as the only viable lens option...

I guess we may agree that if the FUJI sensor is on par with the NEX, we have a new option to consider, right?
Risky, I agree, but they are addressing the weak spot of Sony: Lenses

3 upvotes
Northgrove
By Northgrove (Jan 13, 2012)

Not just the sensor, but the lenses too.

2 upvotes
Andrew Booth
By Andrew Booth (Jan 13, 2012)

I think Fuji has been smart to seek a different niche.

Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung are all competing in the low/midrange mirrorless market. Fuji has neither the momentum of micro 43rds nor the lens compatibility of Sony... could it really do well here? Samsung doesn't appear to be.

Nikon have come in with an overpriced fashion camera, and Pentax with a toy camera. Seems like Fuji have identified a clear niche and gone for it.

Let's not forget that Fuji has a fine heritage of Rangefinders. From the Hasselblad 'XPAN' joint venture to the GW/GSW medium format rangefinders, Fuji has credibility in this space.

3 upvotes
DigitPhotography
By DigitPhotography (Jan 13, 2012)

Nikon's "overpriced fashion camera" is apparently selling very well.

1 upvote
JWest
By JWest (Jan 13, 2012)

People like fashion.

1 upvote
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 13, 2012)

From what I have read the NEX7 is let down by two things, the price and the lenses. The lens choice is small and their quality a joke when you are spending that kind of money on the body.

I use RAW and a third party HDR program as the RAW developer even with single frame shots. Oloneo PhotoEngine is way better than other HDR programs I have tried in most respects.

I want lenses that are not raw and then cooked in software. Most digital lenses are, which why when I replaced my full frame Nikon F80s with the D300 I kept my quality FX lenses to use on it which, other than equipment of Leica quality and bankrupting myself, is about as good as it gets.

The Samsung NX200 is neat and tidy and, at the price, would have been a great second camera even without an optical viewfinder, which I dearly wish to have. I thought of getting one to go in the flash shoe with a prime wide angle, but the distortion of the lenses is appalling, even worse than the Sony.

Comment edited 11 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

NEX7 has only one, maybe two lenses, and that is (along with to mauch pixels for lenses to match) its only and big drawback.

0 upvotes
wlachan
By wlachan (Jan 13, 2012)

Now is the big question, "Will 3k USD cover the whole set?"

0 upvotes
thx1138
By thx1138 (Jan 13, 2012)

No, more like $3600 with all three lenses released so far.

1 upvote
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

Maybe, but tightly...

0 upvotes
Tee1up
By Tee1up (Jan 13, 2012)

Having spent more than 2 decades with film SLRs, it's actually painful to watch all the compromises that pros/enthusiasts have to make with modern day digital cameras. Sorry if this makes you roll your eyes but I would head off to the most remote parts of the planet with a suitcase full of Kodachrome 25/64 and a F3HP and the only thing I ever had to worry about was a small battery and local food quality. I sadly sold my film rig and am still trying to find a satisfactory replacement that doesn't need a support team of electrical engineers to fix/explain malfunctions. I am not a pro so I have resisted going after a D3/D4 but increasingly I am getting the feeling that for an agressive photographer, this may be the best option.

7 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jan 13, 2012)

You sound almost exactly like my photography teacher :-)

0 upvotes
Mark Prince
By Mark Prince (Jan 13, 2012)

What's a F3HP. ;)

Seriously though, my three most cherished cameras in the world are, in order: Leica M6 TTL, Nikon FM3a, and my fully kitted out Nikon F4 (incl two grips, high-tech data back, and three prisms). I still think there hasn't been a more impressive camera made since the F4 in terms of technology bundled into one camera (and everything accessible via a dial, button, or switch!).

But there's no denying the convenience, control and range that a modern high end dSLR offers. Which is why I shoot with them 90% of the time.

1 upvote
tornwald
By tornwald (Jan 13, 2012)

I completely agree with u!
I still use my Pentax 67 because I love the format and the quality.
A 645D for instance seems very interesting, but we are not there yet. And as for the price of that camera.. well, I just can't aford somthing like that. So that leaves me still with film middle format, which can be a hassle and a big cost also. But I'm just stuck in the middle of something I cannot get out yet and I think that counts for a lot of photographers who don't want to compromise.

1 upvote
bjzwaan
By bjzwaan (Jan 13, 2012)

No need to go to D3, a D700 will do. Buy some AIs primes or the nice voigtlander ones and you have a reasonably small package and two batteries will last you 6 weeks. Food will still be a concern :)

Bas

1 upvote
steveh0607
By steveh0607 (Jan 13, 2012)

A suitcase full of film? A couple of cards can hold a hundred suitcases of worth of film.

Digital doesn't have to be difficult. You can still use the camera's basic functions without diving into all the available options.

1 upvote
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 13, 2012)

With me 4 decades with film SLRs and TLRs and I do agree. The best were the real deal. Today's top end digital are huge, heavy, bulbous and appallingly complicated. Take the new Nikon D4 and its rivals not just for example, take them and keep them. They are idiotic.

If I was CEO of a top end manufacturer, I would have designed and built a DSLR with lenses at or close to the Leitz or Zeiss class. No linear distortion or any other, the body no bigger than an Olympus OM and it would not have software more than the absolute minimum. It would just shoot RAW and have ISO, exposure adjustment and bracketing, AE and or AF lock, spot metering and centre-weighted - JPEG, contrast and saturation only if possible in that size. I would also make a Leica M lookalike scaled down nearly to the OM but thinner.

For either the lenses would be small and lightweight, not like a pea (the lens elements) in a coconut shell.

Why do we not have such as this now? Are there good reasons? I really doubt it.

0 upvotes
jmmgarza
By jmmgarza (Jan 13, 2012)

A simple and expensive camera.

1 upvote
Northgrove
By Northgrove (Jan 13, 2012)

Sometimes, simplicity seem to come at a price, though. Not too many other cameras like this with simple, traditional dials for aperture, shutter speed, and exposure compensation.

4 upvotes
BobORama
By BobORama (Jan 13, 2012)

The X-Pro1 samples floating around seems to show the 35mm and 60mm being very nice. The 18mm seemed to have a lot of CA in the samples. So apparently the correction was not baked into the samples..

0 upvotes
SHood
By SHood (Jan 13, 2012)

oops.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/12/imaging-resource-interview-kayce-baker-fujifilm

KB: I don't actively shoot into, like, that, (looks up at the bright overhead lights) because ow, that hurts right now. I've got orbs just looking at that. But I did hear about it. I saw it on dpreview. I saw it on a couple places. Yeah, that's part of the sensor. It's part of the way it's built. To have any answers about whether or not it's being fixed --
.
AE: So that's going to be a mechanical thing rather than a potential firmware kind of fix?
.
KB: Absolutely, yeah. And the reality is that it has been brought up and they are looking into it to see what could be done.

Comment edited 24 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
photo nuts
By photo nuts (Jan 13, 2012)

This is VERY bad. Does not bode well for Fujifilm's reputation, especially since this is their FIRST MILC model in a new camera line. Why anyone is willing to invest money in such a questionable system is beyond me.

0 upvotes
Roman Korcek
By Roman Korcek (Jan 13, 2012)

That's about the X10, not the X-Pro1.

1 upvote
Andy Crowe
By Andy Crowe (Jan 13, 2012)

@photo nuts, the X100 has had no reports of orbs so I can't see why the X Pro 1 would be any different.

0 upvotes
solsang
By solsang (Jan 13, 2012)

the x100 and xpro have much bigger pixels, thus able to contain many more electrons(photons) and avoid overflow, minimizing the risk, and the x10 problem is partly due to software sharpening

Be aware that certain reflections and ofther effects may look like the orb issue, there is even a posting with round lamps that are easily mistaken for orbs

I am personally concerned about the sunsets, and look forward to examples of the sun with the xpro and the x10 after firmware fix

0 upvotes
syakirzainol
By syakirzainol (Jan 13, 2012)

if this system provide good flash system with wireless and high-speed sync, i can see myself jumping ship to this...

2 upvotes
Albert Ang
By Albert Ang (Jan 13, 2012)

+1. If Fuji is committed to develop X-mount system fully (wireless flash system, on-going addition of lenses), I will be strongly tempted to jump the ship too from Nikon. For now, it's just a nice expensive toy.

0 upvotes
texviddy
By texviddy (Jan 13, 2012)

Fuji can't really be leaving their loyal X100 users without remedy for the continuing problems, can they???

Those people ressurrected Fuji!

Comment edited 11 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
persiyan
By persiyan (Jan 13, 2012)

To address the slow focus they would have to make a new camera and give it to each customer. As for sticky aperture blades, it hasn't been confirmed to be a wide spread defect to do a recall, but they have had excellent customer service in getting each camera that's turned in fixed. They have even confirmed that they would do free repairs for out of warranty X100s.

1 upvote
Geo R
By Geo R (Jan 13, 2012)

I think some users will pay for hardware updates, so Fuji will not lose money and users will get the improved X100.
I, for example, am willing to pay for some hardware upgrades is they ever become available, but not for Leica M9 type of BS.

1 upvote
liquid stereo
By liquid stereo (Jan 13, 2012)

It seems like they can and they have.

0 upvotes
smallcams
By smallcams (Jan 13, 2012)

Very fancy, nice build quality, but how's the shooting performance, usability and IQ? Did they remedy all the X100 CRAZINESS? And for the price it had better be worlds better than the new Canon G1X and Nikon V1.

0 upvotes
spidermoon
By spidermoon (Jan 13, 2012)

Yes, for 1700$ annouced body only you can buy the G1X (800$) and the nikon V1 with kit zoom (899$)

1 upvote
liquid stereo
By liquid stereo (Jan 13, 2012)

And you would have two small sensor cameras. If that's the goal then bravo.

3 upvotes
Dr_Jon
By Dr_Jon (Jan 14, 2012)

G1X is close to APS size sensor, much the same as Fuji...

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
straylightrun
By straylightrun (Jan 13, 2012)

What about a FW update for x100 to fix all the problems?

1 upvote
shutterbobby
By shutterbobby (Jan 13, 2012)

As an X10 owner at least Fuji has said now the problem is real,not blooming like all other cameras, but it seems serious in the fact it cannot be eliminated totally,which mean the orbs can still ruin many shots or??? we can hope for the best..

1 upvote
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jan 13, 2012)

What you need to ask yourself is- does this affect you? How many times have you seen the issue? If you rarely see the issue, stop reading the distressed theoretical people and enjoy your camera. I honestly think it is for a lot of photographs a complete non issue.

2 upvotes
dara2
By dara2 (Jan 13, 2012)

Sorry Raist3d but would it be canikon sony or fuji, if there are issues they have to fix it, would it affect me or not. We are talking about 1000usd toys/tools here. If nobody complains, who knows with what next buggy firmware those manufacturers would rush out with?

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jan 13, 2012)

@dara2 - the X10 is not 1000USD. It's 600 USD or less. I am not talking about not voicing a concern, I am talking about the ridiculous paranoia to the point of obsessing over the X10 thinking it's useless which is quite ridiculous. I have used it and for a LOT of shots it works great.

I am not saying concerns should be ignored. But someone who has an X10 wondering if they can take a photograph and it's "safe to go out" is the level of self-harm paranoia I am talking about. It's one thing to raise the issue and another to write off the X10 as useless. It's very capable.

2 upvotes
Rudydm
By Rudydm (Jan 13, 2012)

i agree completely with Raist3d. i have had an X10 for some time now, and i haven't seen a single orb yet. i think the camera is great, and fantastic to work with.

0 upvotes
solsang
By solsang (Jan 13, 2012)

Sean Reid has made a nice first review of the x10 where he was seemed to have totally avoided getting any, they are not mentioned, and he would be aware of anything ruining his photos!

My hezitation with x10 based on Reidreviews was purely the adequacy of the viewfinder, and having lived with sigma quirks for years this is a relatively small issue;)

1 upvote
Calvin Chann
By Calvin Chann (Jan 13, 2012)

@solsang
I bought the X10 hoping that it would be a good camera. By and large it is, but I can't seem to get past the viewfinder. It is quite prominent on the camera, so any user would want to use it. But the total lack of any information, for me, is a major problem. Focusing alone would preclude me from using the viewfinder. Just imagine.
1. You are using the centre focus point, which isn't shown in the viewfinder. A little bit hit and miss, right?
2. You are using multi zone focusing and you have no idea where the camera is focusing.
3. You are using face detection and you have no idea where the camera is focusing.
And I haven't even started on exposure.

Another issue that I have is with firmware updating. Almost all other manufacturers that I have experience of do this through using the memory card. With Fuji, you have to tether the camera to a computer on which you have the Fuji software installed. I never install the manufacturers software, so how do I update the firmware?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Dennis
By Dennis (Feb 3, 2012)

@Calvin: I am also getting very close to buying the X10 - I go totally sentimental on this camera when touching the metal dials and the zoom. On the other hand, all the noise generated about orbs makes it hard to decide - not knowing if this a real significant issue.

Like you, I have some concern about the simple OVF, but I have been playing around with my old Olympus C-2040 Zoom (similar zoom range and aperture) using the OVF; no information, but a simple cross-hair. It makes photography a different experience, relying on automatic exposure and focusing on the subject. The X10 will give me to distinctly different ways of taking photos; using the OVF for shooting while observing the world around me and a more technically sophisticated LCD based approach utilizing all features of the camera.

I also only rarely use included software. I make my own choices on software. For now my primary computer is not even capable of running Windows software - I will have to borrow my sons laptop...

0 upvotes
Phil Flash
By Phil Flash (Jan 13, 2012)

I seem to remember the day when a Canon QL17 film rangefinder was inexpensive, high performance, and easy to use. The world has gotten a little too complicated.

It sort of feels like Fuji is trying to take us back to simple times, but it's going to cost you.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
keepreal
By keepreal (Jan 13, 2012)

Fuji is not taking us back to simple times, only making it a little bit more organised.

Technology in the market place is mediocre, not just in photography. You microwave and clothes washer have so many cycles they are confusing. They only need three or four.

The world has gone mad. The world in near recession and for so long prove it if you still need convincing or, more accurately, that the conditions that made it possible were allowed even encouraged.

If only I could still get colour film processed properly or the chemicals to do it myself in small sized quantities. It was only that that forced me to take the plunge though I do admit digital is better in spite of the baggage.

Digital camera should primarily replicate what film cameras can do but doing it better because they can. That does not include things like simulated shutter sounds, face recognition and as I have predicted will come, bum recognition. Additional features should be there only because they are needed. I wish.

0 upvotes
marlinspike
By marlinspike (Jan 13, 2012)

I could almost see myself selling my dSLR gear for the X-Pro1. Motorsports photography is the only reason I don't, but I definitely see myself buying into this system when the body price comes down a bit.

Comment edited 29 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
putomax
By putomax (Jan 13, 2012)

in the 1st video is interesting how the contrast changes when the close up on the fuji (0'12'')

like the elbows too :P

gashô

0 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Jan 13, 2012)

Focus by wire still puzzles me. Why? It works bad enough on X100, and even if it's 3 times as better on X-Pro 1, it's still useless. For a camera that's intended for a more traditional approach to composition, a more responsive manual focusing mechanism would be of greater benefit.

But again, when faced with the ugly reality of cost, we've got what Mike Johnston has said:

"C'mon, we have enough good bargain cameras to choose from. Let's have some spendy ones too. The more money the manufacturers have to work with the more they can do, price being the #1 constraint on any camera and especially lens designer."

And lens/focus by wire are the department that I'd like Fuji had sorted out better.

6 upvotes
geoffire
By geoffire (Jan 13, 2012)

Focusing makes or breaks the system for me. Slow AF and hobbled manual focus like the X100 don't do it. We'll see when photographer's get their hands on it if Fuji did manual focus right or botched it.

That said, focus by wire doesn't necessarily kill it, as the Nex line does a reasonable job. Auto zoom in and peaking make the Nex work, add in a distance scale and I'd be happy.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
Zvonimir Tosic
By Zvonimir Tosic (Jan 13, 2012)

My suspicion is that Leica's system, which they have promised to announce this year, won't have sluggish focus by wire issue. They'll probably have a proper distance scale too, so manual, off the hip pre-focusing will be possible (which is essential for quick action, non-conspicious photography).

Pentax does a great job there too, better than Fuji too, with their DA Ltd lenses and their quick-shift mechanism (from AF to MF and vice versa) is unmatched yet.

But I hope Leica will at least eliminate the cost problem, because lenses for the Leica, in their good ol' tradition, will be at least twice more expensive.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (Jan 13, 2012)

I agree with you here. Focus should have been mechanical with a DOF scale.

2 upvotes
kanzlr
By kanzlr (Jan 13, 2012)

i'm with you there, thats what killed the Ricoh GXR 50 mm module for me, and, to a degree the 28mm one (although it focuses faster than the 50mm).

But you could get the Ricoh GXR + M Mount module and have true, mechanical manual focus that works VERY well.

0 upvotes
nemark
By nemark (Jan 14, 2012)

To ZvonimirTosic:
"But I hope Leica will at least eliminate the cost problem..."
It would not be Leica, than... ;)

0 upvotes
Total comments: 184
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