Sony to become Olympus' biggest shareholder with $650m investment: Digital Photography Review

Sony Corp. closed 2011 with losses for more than $5bn.
Olympus Corp. closed 2011 with losses for around $650m.
Which one is the real troubled?

Comment edited 57 seconds after posting

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I suspect that in the medium term there will be "rationalisation" and either Sony or Olympus cameras will simply disappear. I hope it's not Olympus because we need to retain competition in the micro four thirds world.

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http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201209/12-0928E/index.html

It's official. Sony and Olympus also will share Digital Imaging Technologies. Expect further development of sensors from Sony for m4/3 cameras and some lenses R&D expertise from Olympus for E-mount and probably A-mount too.

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In the short term, Olympus will probably exclusively use Sony sensors. In the long term, Sony might try to convince Olympus to focus on its medical products and merge the best of the Olympus camera business and its employees into Sony. The press release asserting that Sony is only interested in Olympus' medical business (and not its consumer electronics?!) is near-absurd posturing to reduce potential anti-competitive practice concerns.

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Is she serious ?
Sony herself is in the red for the past few years already and not dong very well too !

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So Sony make another move that will increase pressure upon Canon and to a lesser degree Nikon. I can see several advantages for Olympus and of course Sony. Hopefully this might mean that their partnership with Hasselblad can't be funded anymore !

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Very interesting. This makes way more sense than the monstrosity they produced through the Hasselblad partnership.

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Olympus has $6.5 billion or more in bond and loan debt its cash flows can't cover. No outsider will want to buy a controlling stake until the creditors "face the music" and reduce their claims. Only then would it make sens for Sony or other strategic investors to pump in more equity. Sony's 10% stake gives is a strategic say in affairs without compulsion to bear more than 10% of the losses. It's a gamble, but a calculated one. But it won't pay off unless Sony figures way to cut the operating losses of current or future holdings. TV screens and cameras aren't notoriously profitable in this era of iPhones, tablets, and heavy price competition from Taiwan and PRC.

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Good news to both Olympus and Sony shareholders!
When can we expect to see a Sony-Oly microscope?

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Do I need to read it again or do others? I did not see anything related to Olympus's camera division.

"Sony wants to nurture new businesses, including medical equipment, to increase revenue as it draws back from loss-making televisions."

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possible

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The medical systems are the jewel in the crown.

The Olympus camara business is a side show. Cash cow?

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Then you need to study their annual report carefully.

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Sony is only getting a 10% stake in the company. They will be in no position to call all the shots. Or TAKE OVER the medical part of Oly. Good god people they are not going to own Oly.

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Well, they actually will call the shots - Sony gets it's own representative in management - but they still need support of other shareholders to make any final decisions.
I wouldn't be surprised though to see more Sony tech in Oly gear.

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting

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That's no bad thing -- the E-M5 uses a Sony sensor, which apparently performs very well.

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Apparently?

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Not sure how long Panasonic will stay in partnership.

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Yep - the pressure will begin soon !

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Sony and Panasonic will be working together on OLED TV production
and soon if not already Panasonic will be buying Sony sensors, the new GH3 might already be sporting a Sony sensor ;)

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I anticipate some degree of cooperation. What would be great would be Oly designing/making some NEX lenses for Sony. I could see that happening. Sensors in exchange for lenses.

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I think Sony sensors showing up inside Olympus products is the more likely scenario. I believe this is called nailing a customers feet to the floor...

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OM-D is already using Sony sensor.
That's why it's the best m4/3 body on a market.
Question is - will Olympus help Sony with lenses (pancakes mostly, cause Sony engineers seem to be doing fine with all the others)?

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"Olympus helps Sony to design lens"??
Sony already have Carl Zeiss to design lenses for them... Can Olympus do the job better than Carl Zeiss? No way.

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But now, lenses can be designed more faster than before. Having Carl Zeiss and Olympus helping Sony do lenses is a good thing, doesn't matter who makes better lenses.

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I imagine the prospect of hospitals and labs filled with Sony microscopes is pretty appealing.

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over the zeiss and leica ones that are already there lol

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LOL yourself, Vibrio. You have no idea what the percentage shares are in the microscope industry, do you? Zeiss is the number 4 scope maker, behind Nikon, Oly, and Jeol. Leica is way down around number 8.

Getting their hands on the number 2 maker, and gunning after number 1, that's a Sony kind of thing.

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TBH I can only go with what I've used and thats been Zeiss and Leica. thats both standard light microscopes and confocals. I've never seen a nikon or oly unit ever.

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting

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I never saw any Nikon microscope in my related industries.
The norm is is using Olympus / CZ bodies with Leica or CZ objective lenses.

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Olympus denies
http://www.olympus-global.com/en/corc/ir/tes/

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In other words, it's a done deal.

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It's not a denial, but a statement suggesting the Reuters report is not from an official Olympus source. Olympus will make an official statement soon, denying or confirming the report.

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I think that this deal is not new. When it became evident that OM-D uses a Sony sensor, not a Pana, it was as evident that something was in the air, something of this kind. Anyway, the Sony sensor does a great job in the OM-D, it is just a cropped NEX-7 chip in some way.

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Olympus uses Epson viewfinders - a manufacturer/supplier relationship doesn't imply any deeper tie-up. Nikon and Pentax amongst others regularly use Sony sensors without any further connections.

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Panasonic's new GH3 is also using the same same Sony sensor as found in EM-5

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R Butler is right. After all Canon uses Sony sensors in their P&S cameras.

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no canon use canon sensors in there piece of s**t cameras lol

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@Vibrio, wrong. They've used them for years. here's a list of them that were involved in the ccd recall a few years ago.

http://photo.net/digital-camera-forum/00J4Cg

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it was a joke - I was refereing to canons DSLRS not point and shoot cameras.

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I got to handle a demolished Rebel once. It had a Sony LCD screen. Seems Sony makes a part of every camera on the market, or almost, regardless of brand.

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PROs:

1. Badly needed stability for Olympus to move on.

2. Access to the latest Sony technology (sensors, EVF, focus peaking...) for use in Olympus cameras. Just what is needed for the best mirrorless format, M43, to achieve greatness.

3. A faster pace in the Mirrorless Revolution as Sony and Oly, and Panny (all strong believers in MILCs) get friendlier. This weakens the unhealthy duopoly of Canikon and helps remove the obstacle to progress those two have become as they cling on to DSLRs. This must be good for competition and for consumers, and for progress.

4. M43 becoming more compelling with this vote of confidence from Sony to other makers to help M43 become a quasi standard to benefit consumers for better choices and prices, e.g. if Tamron start making native M43 lenses, Sigma some M43 Foveon cameras, Sony M43 pellicle MILCs, Fuji M43 superzooms, and Pentax...

CONs:

Not too many. Perhaps risk of Sony's proprietary garbage, like PlayMemories, XQD ... in Olympus cameras.

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 13 minutes after posting

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I don't see Sony giving any vote of confidence to m4/3 nor releasing any cameras on this bayonet.
For Sony m4/3 is inferior mount - and no wonder: according to most recent data the APS-C sensors rule the mirrorless market with Sony leading worldwide sales.
Also Sigma confirmed that it won't be involved in producing any mirrorless cameras.

Sergey - you obviously read waaaaaaaaaay too much into what's happening.
Remember that SONY is giving money to olympus, NOT the other way around. So if anything - we'll see Olympus joining E-bayonet (say: by releasing the lenses) anything the other way around won't happen. Olympus didn't gave anything to Sony so far besides some profits from selling the sensors. I don't see how you came up with Sony suddenly becoming a subordinate to Olympus photo business.

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Sergey the XQD card was a Nikon request and developed by Sony,SanDisk and Nikon to replace 18 year old limatations of CompactFlash memory, so get your facts straight.
BTW Sony is not interested in M43 and I would not be surprised if M43 cannot survive in 2013

Comment edited 7 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting

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Good money after bad, IMO. Let it die

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oly does great products. check out their lenses and cameras! they do amazing stuff

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pity that it's on a small sensor. Otherwise I'd be interested.

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The difference between Four Thirds and APS-C is really not all that much. In general, 4/3 zooms are faster than APS-C zooms, and (m)4/3 primes are quite sharp wide open, making the difference even less.

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Full Frame Olympus?

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I hope not... first it'll be pricey, second they won't sell as many, third they'll need to spread their resources even more thinly.

Just concentrate on the m43 lineup which is already looking might fine with the fine 12f2, 25f1.4, 45f1.8, 60f2.8, 75mmf1.8

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FF 4/3, maybe, why not on the end?

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I'll rather they explore the 1" sensor area. It'll be nice to have that coupled with Olympus i-zuiko lens, colours and JPEG processing. Looking at how the RX100 images from DPreview photokina coverage turns out, I'll say they'll definitely sell loads more in numbers with these kind of camera.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting

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FF 4/3 is an oxymoron.
4/3 is defined by the diagonal sensor dimension, NOT the aspect ratio. The image is 21.63mm diagonal, equivalent to a vidicon tube of 4/3" diameter - see http://www.four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/whitepaper.html
The use of sensors with 4:3 aspect ratio in 4/3 cameras, whilst near universal to date, isn't a requirement of the 4/3 standard.

The FF standard, as set down by Oscar Barnack over 100 years ago, defines a 36x24mm format - thus defining both aspect ratio of 3:2 and image diagonal of 43.3mm. That is equivalent of an 8/3" vidicon tube.

Since 8 is not equal to 4, you can't ever have a FF 4/3 solution, even "on the end".

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Not sure why we're still using vidicon tube sizes to talk about sensors, but RKM is right -- 4/3 is a sensor size, and it isn't fullframe.

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Sony and Olympus absolutely do need each other in order to survive. Sony's chip business is strong, but can't continue to carry the whole load by itself. A joint venture into the medical equipment business would seem to make sense, since the demand for new medical device technology continues to be a growth industry, and Olympus already has the positive brand identity, contacts, experience, and business network in place to compete in that industry.

Whether this deal will help to keep Sony or Olympus in the interchangeable lens camera business is another matter entirely. Can Sony and Olympus sell enough SLT and mirrorless ILC bodies to take marketshare from the high flying market leaders? Judging by the latest offerings from all the players, I seriously doubt it. After all, 2 turkeys don't make an eagle. :)

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Coming thanksgiving I don't think you'll be carving up an eagle. ;)

If you are talking the interchangable lens camera business as a whole, sure the old giants who seem not to want to risk innovation or technologically driven change still have the largest market share. We'll just have to wait and see how long that lasts.

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Hi SirSeth,
Those old giants are addressing the ILC business. Just not as a replacement for the DSLR, but as an entry level system that produces future DSLR enthusiasts. Both systems will coexist in the marketplace nicely, just perhaps not as you envisioned.

What Sony and Olympus are trying to do is to find a way to work around the market dominance of those old giants, because their DSLRs weren't selling at all. Does anybody even remember the A900 or the E-5? Well, SLTs and ILCs seemed as good an idea to try as any, but so far, not nearly enough buyers have jumped on that bandwagon, outside of Japan, for any camera maker to make a worthwhile profit from it. So why bother?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

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Sorry bit Sony does not "absolutely need" Olympus to survive. I would love to know where you get such idea. The medical business is a Sony expansion an not a necessity. Sony has their issues but getting access tonolumpus medical is not in any shape or form "absolutely necessary" for them to survive.

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You are correct, Raist3d. I misspoke and didn't realize it until long after the post was made. I'm glad someone is reading this stuff who may really have a sense of what's going on. Thanks!

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According to the pie chart here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=42576505

Sony is 2nd in the camera market, only 1% behind canon.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

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Donnie - kudos to you for realizing it. I wish more people here were as reasonable.

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I live in Washington DC, so lots of tourists running around with their cameras, and for what it's worth I do see a lot of m4/3 and NEX bodies out there.

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A company in financial woes buying stake in a company in financial turmoil. Unless they (Sony) have done something I haven't read about to reverse their 6.5 billion loss last fiscal year. Weird world.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting

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They need to settle themselves in solid ground. And Olympus medical divison is just fine for that. And they get in long-term a good revenue from other divisons aswell if everything works ok. WIN-WIN scenario for both companies.

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You can't make money simply by buying other companies and getting bigger. That simply gives top managers another two years to cloud the financial reports with confusion caused by the mergers. Sooner or later, Sony and other giants will have to cut product lines that don't yield returns. That is very difficult for them to recognize or do.

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... If sony gets ANY say in the company .... Let me put it this way: Who wants to buy an OM-D E-M5 I just purchased less than half a year ago?

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Don't worry, Sony is interested in other things. Even if Sony had a say in the company, they will keep Olympus just like they're. They want Olympus as an ally in the m43 field and that way they get money from people that don't want APS-C mirrorless and are loyal to the legacy of Olympus. Getting revenues from 1.0 type, m43, APS-C and FF sensor market (and cameras as well) it's better than competing against m43. That way they have covered a wide field.

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@Rooru S: You keep having this narrow view where you interpret Sony's move solely from your photography perspective.. Guys.. when will you understand that this deal has got nothing to do with photography and hence Sony couldn't care less about m43 (or having Olympus as an ally.. as stated above). Sony is interested in the diagnostic endoscope market where Olympus is worldwide Nbr 1. That's the deal..

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting

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That's why I said, "Don't worry, Sony is interested in other things." Did you read that??? Anepo talked in a hypothetical way, I talked in the same way.

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Exactly. Not to worry! If Sony kills Oly m43, they can't be sure the Oly customers will switch to Sony. Chances are, they'd get less than 20% of Oly's existing customers. Plus, killing an interchangeable lens product line? One reason it's created in the first place is to ensure that customers keep coming back for more gear (lenses for the body, new body for those lenses...). What are the chances Sony would want to drive a fair chunk of that after-market business to Panasonic? ;) Finally, this is just a 10% investment, not a controlling interest. There's just so much one member of a board of directors can do.

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Yeah I read somewhere sony's camera department isn't doing too well too. So the vested interest is in Olympus medical technology. Not much has been mention but i think Olympus portable pcm recorders are pretty good too. They should find a way to integrate this into their hybrid cameras with superior sound recording.

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Photography is in all companies only a smaller part, despite that they fight each other with hi tech products. Olympus and Nikon produce high end medical lab material, Sony is leader in TV recording, and Canon in high end Office electronics.

Now, saying that 4/3 is the Olympus identity is stupid. If Oly had chosen at start to go APSC and the OMD was in APSC today, I would have one by now.

Some like 4/3, some don't. Oly went that way, if it went the APSC way, it would have sold as much, could be even more. Oly-Pana have made a new format and in mean time it is part of our world. But, nothing can make Oly to stick to it. Sony could do 4/3 and Oly do APSC, it would then just attract another cast of customers on each side.

If you want to earn money with everything, just produce and sell everything.

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting

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@Shamael Tell that to Canon who are mostly invested in Camera's as well as Nikon

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Challenge: furnish any proof that Sony or Oly are earning profitss on cameras. Sales volume, market share, prestige, or customer ratings don't equal profits. Sony's money comes mainly from financial operations (currency moves) of the insurance business and media. Oly's earnings come mainly from medical instruments and disappear into the losses of other divisions. Even Canon makes most money from printing and office products.

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I wonder how many commenters have actually read the Reuters' article. Reading some comments alone, one might think Sony will take over Olympus.

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I have been talking with you and you think I was assuming Sony was taking over Olympus when I only said Olympus is getting money from Sony. What is in your head really?

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I think the deal is good for both parts. Sony expands its business to a new area of investments and Olympus gets much-needed money. It's not a takeover. Besides, you seem to overestimate the importance of Olympus' camera division. It accounts for only about 16% of Olympus Corporation's global business, you know...

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

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When did I overestimate Olympus camera division? When did I say it's a takeover? Some really weird stuff is happening in your head...

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Not so weird as the intermittent functioning of your single neuron, though.

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Sony does not want to take full control of Olympus at this time for two very good reasons:

First, Oly has more debt than it can pay, and Sony does not want to pick up that tab. A 10% stake gives it a voting roll, but exposes it to only 10% of the losses if the firm goes bankrupt.

Second, Sony can buy a larger stake in company from the creditors, later, at a lower price.

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again ManuelVilardeMacedo...when did I overestimate Olympus camera division? When did I say it's a takeover? Answer me! In all your replies to my comments it seems you misread everything I wrote.

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Go ahead Sony, buy the whole Olympus! I believe Sony will be one of the three big ones, maybe one of the two ( Canon has been kind of disappointing lately ). Then again, there is also Fuji!

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Sony won't do that until Oly's creditors agree to reduce their $6.5 billion claims to an amount the company can actually pay.

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There goes the neighborhood. :-(

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Will Oly have to make bodies designed for oil sheiks and charge 5 times as much like Hassy?

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This is as much for Sony as it is for Olympus. According to the Reuters report, Sony apparently needs more secure ventures, such as there may be in the medical industry. But if geek heads insist on hyperventilating, well, you go right ahead, then.

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Good for Olympus, that would be a very collaboration. Both companies are very innovative and hopefully Sony will keep Olympus afloat. The fact that Sony will supply Olympus with sensors would help as well, as Sony makes some of the best sensors in industry.

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Innovation.
Solidity.
Diversification : as a long-time Olympus user, it feels like my go-to brand will become some kind of high-end niche product within the Sony empire. That feels weird but not bad.

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Solympus?

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Sonympus?
Olympony?

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Well Olympus is still on top in that exchange so it would be Oly p ony

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Pusso?

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Olony!

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Olyimpians, fear not: Sony is only interested in the medical business. Olympus will be no Minolta.
On the other hand, Olympus had a major quality leap when they started using sensors made by Sony. Not really a bad deal, actually...

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Olympus will be Pentax.

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If Sony is only interested in the medical business, one might conclude all these redundant cameras could easily go. I'd be at least a little worried.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

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That would be right if Sony had the majority of seats at the board of directors, tkbslc. They will have only one. The general assembly, which Sony could influence by being the major shareholder (even if it holds just 10% of the shares), cannot take decisions of such nature unless by proposal of the board. So no need to worry. I'm an Olympus user and I'm relieved by this news.

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How can Olympus cameras be "redundant" in a world where there are ten thousand different flavors of EVERYTHING?!

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I second that. If you try to get to know Olympus system cameras operationally there are many other things that make it a joy to shoot compare to other makers. Super control panel, direct access to mirror lock up in drive mode, selectable AEL metering, etc...

I hope focus peaking find their way into Olympus cams through this partnership

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HMMMM...so basically... Sony sells sensor to Olympus and then Olympus sell cameras with Sony invested money, right?

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Read the article again. The deal has little to do with Olympus photography division.

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If they invest IN OLYMPUS COMPANY, they invest on everything. Even if Sony doesn't want the photography division, without injection of money, Olympus can do nothing.

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That would be accurate if Sony were at the board of directors. They'll name only one representative, and that'll be next year. You still didn't read Reuters' article, did you?

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You don't know a lot about how corporations function, do you?

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I did read the article, and have been following the early rumors about this note. But again, with no money injection, Olympus can do nothing in the near future. Did I say something about controlling Olympus? Did I suggest something like Sony owning Olympus? What I just said was, in other words, Oly gets money from Sony to keep running. If you invest in a company, you don't need to be in the board of directors, do you?. Did I suggest that? No. Don't know what you're thinking.

1 upvote

First!
Olympony?
Will oly start making ugly bodies now?

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Less buttons, no viewfinder, ugly controls and full-arm-length shooting is required now. =D

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Does Sony sell ugly bodies? Is RX100 ugly? Is RX1 ugly? What is ugly that Sony make?

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You know they only bought 10% right? So they don't actually have that much influence in any decision Olympus makes

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Less buttons? No Viewfinder? Ugly controls and Arm lenght shooting? NEX-6, NEX-7...hmmmm Enough customization buttons, OLED viewfinder (even Fuji like to use the same Sony OLED EVF), maybe a little bit weird controls (and interface), but no arm lenght shooting required for sure.

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As the largest Shareholder they have a ton of influence. Not a controlling stake, but enough to be very, very convincing.

4 upvotes

My question is more like: Will Olympus now make lenses that are just as big as the DSLR lenses thus making the MAIN reason for owning MICRO four thirds camera's ZERO?

I purchased m43 for compactness... the Sony kit lens is as big as a regular sized DSLR lens.

Why do you make a small camera and a HUGE lens? that defeats the point of having a small camera to make it easier to travel around, something Sony seem's unable to comprehend

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Anepo, the problem here is, APS-C sensor is bigger, so are the lenses. m43 has a great advantage of having a smaller sensor size and therefore, a smaller size for lenses. And if you look at the recent additions, the new kit lens (the Sony SELP1650) is about small as the Panasonic Powerzoom collapsible lens, and it includes Optical Stabilization (and remember, it's for APS-C, bigger than m43).

The old Kit lens is not as big as you may think when looking at the specs. The A-mount version (DSLR/SLT) is 69.5mm x 69mm while the E-mount version is 62mm x 60mm and it includes Optical Stabilization while being designed for APS-C and just 18mm of flange distance to sensor compared to the 44.5mm of the DSLR/SLT.

1 upvote


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Sony to become Olympus' biggest shareholder with $650m investment

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