Roger Cicala investigates Canon's AF marketing claims: Digital Photography Review

6D has left out, why? i don't know but it smells like 5D3 + 1Dx promotion

0 upvotes

Thank you Roger: I thought I was going nuts regarding shots made in the same place with moving subjects (AI Servo) could be so dirrerent in IQ. I would speculate my older lenses combined with my 5Dll have a cumulative effect. At least I won't be tearing hair patches out of my head; any more. Again great information and greatly appreciated!

0 upvotes

I read the whole series about AF and they are very informative. Thanks for the tip.

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Frankly, I thought the article made perfectly good sense, particularly in discussing the evolution of AF. It's always best to spend some time to understand the technology and its limits.

As for soft images, I've always customized my cameras to have focusing on one button and shutter on the other. Toss in a bit of depth of field and I'm usually good to go. A question to those with "soft" images, are those images completely soft or is there something in focus instead of your intended subject?

0 upvotes

OMG. Did someone ask for this absolute tripe of a report. Please, please, please tell me this is an early April Fool. :\

0 upvotes

This is one of the best and most honest articles ever! It is so sad Canon still makes cameras that have focus and exposure problems. For Years, Even today there cameras are SUB standard in focus and exposure . AND in there repair Bld in Irvine,, it is really Tragic,, watching countless people bring there cameras in for WARRANTY,, that they DO NOT HONOR !!! PLEASE TAKE A NUMBER ,, thank you !!! Just what I saw along with a hand full of other photographers I know very well. But I still have to thank Canon.. The can not perform problems forced me to switch, to FANTASTIC NIKON !! If you think your 7d is on the money ,, I will bet against you,, I have worn a shutter out on one and,, it only gets about 70 per cent of the shots ,,, close, using a longer lens. But if you use a fish eye all the time you can get up to about 90 percent,, with the increase in depth of field !! Thank you NIKON - THANK YOU SONY !! And Thank you cAn iT for the wonderful RUSSIAN ROULETTE DOOR STOP !!

0 upvotes

According to the article a 7D has poor AF? I must have a good copy, because mine is extremely accurate.

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Wester,, you said your 5dmk3 focuses?? Were you FORCED to purchase a newer lens with the new chip in it ,, so the pair can work together ,, OR DID YOU MANUALLY FOCUS THE can not ? Did you ever use a 5dm2 and love the constant boken great OOF performance??? Or did you dedicate it as a DOOR STOP ,, because you knew it was designed BROKEN, and then get a MK3 hoping it would work?????? So where do you get off praising a camera that is BrOkEN new OUT OF THE BOX?? WHY do you except OUT OF FOCUS IMAGES,, that should be sharp?? Is that why, you pay extra for a white lens???? What does L stand for ,, Lousy? or FIRST PLACE LOOSER ? I am not here to harp on can it,, I just want other photographers to not have there money STOLEN,, by this door stop maker !!! So,, are you excited and spinning in your shorts finding out your older L glass, is NOT compatible with the newer cameras???? No chip ,, not compatible !!!! Did I miss something?? Yaa , NIKON and SONY ROCK !!

0 upvotes

calm down 'tell the truth'... millions of great, great pictuers taken by 5d2's even smaller DSRL's of Canon (many of them with AF) tausends of mastershots and fantastic pictures. And you are talking about a door stoper? ones heard: ' A fool with a tool is still a fool'. A 5d a simple, old lense and a fotografer = good pictures. I agree Nikon, Sony, Leica, Hasselblad, Phase one --- there are great other toools there as well...

Now, you might consider Rogers articel of high relevance for your selfs? wait to see, when other tests are coming.

after all - AF - for many a technical isssue - for me a pure miracle and works - when used smart - on all my canons...

Comment edited 54 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

I wonder how much he gets from Canon for such an excellent advertisement.
"Buy both the newest lenses AND cameras, otherwise you AF is crap!"

Why doesn't he test Nikon/Pentax/Sony/Oly/Pana cameras and lenses, new and old to compare with Canon.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

simply if you are gonna be a realy an expert you should choose one brand and focus on it...you can not be an expert on all brands..

he might be hetting paid by canon..but canon products are great ..no doubt about it

0 upvotes

It equally "amazes" me how excellently my 5D Mark III focuses in virtually all scenarios unless I manage to somehow screw things up. This desperate rant by "tell the truth" makes me wonder if he has less than a firm grip on reality because I got the impression that Roger's article, notwithstanding the capabilities of older Canon hardware, was quite complimentary of the 5D Mark IIIs focusing prowess...

2 upvotes

It amazes me ,, we are talking about modern can not focus cameras!! Why Can Not, I mean Can It , make a camera that will focus?? Why dont the reviewers tell us, about the night mare is because ,, the bread and butter comes from this out of OUT of FOCUS COMPANY . HOW SAD, we are finally getting a true review from a Roger, not a reviewer, a camera rental Company owner. Thank You Roger !! Bottom line is the OOF issues have forced 40 per cent of the pro shooters to switch to NIKON !!!!! So how do I feel after getting totally ripped off ?? Thank you canon,, I really have a FINE NIKON NOW !! Oh yaa cannon you make a very very fine DOOR STOP !! The best DOOR STOP I have ever had!

0 upvotes

To be fair to Canon, the trend back to Nikon was also due to high ISO and DR performance.

BUT, yes, the flipside of this article is that it really confirms what many have been noting for a long time...Canon have focussing issues. But I guess their fixed now, so that's all OK!

0 upvotes

Can you please show me where you found the statistics that show 40% of Canon Professionals switched to Nikon? I'd like to read that.

Thanks,
Matt

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

I think he was just guessing when he said 40%....but it probably not far off.

Nikons failure to produce a full frame DSLR saw a lot of photojournalists switching to Canon, just before they finally did just about all were using Canon.

As soon as Nikon did do FF, many former Nikon shooters went back. THere were also some who had only shot Canon who moved to Nikon for the first time.

People usually tally the numbers by counting the difference between grey and black tubed lens. Yes pretty rough, but probably accurate to less than 10%.

But crediting that just to focus issues seems a bot rich. Nikons ISo performance was way ahead in that period, plus being new models they had all the tricks (Canon had been resting on their laurels, not having any competition in the FF market).

0 upvotes

i wouldn't like to say 40% but i know several pro's who have gone over to Nikon from Canon, and judging from lenses being used att the olympics it seems to there's less Canon shooters there than i would of expected.

0 upvotes

"As it turns out, my little tests just confirm things that were already published (if obscurely.)"

Well they certainly draw one possible conclusion. There are others.

A simple explanation for needing both newer cameras and lenses, is the following:

1) Nowadays PAF sensors are incorporated in large sensors with normal imaging capabilities. This provides additional information for exposure and focus algorithms.

2) Mirrorless cameras have shown how lenses need a continuous servo mechanism for high speed CAF foccusing.

3) A hybrid system would send a lens hurtling towards the position the AF sensor indicates, but continue to improve the lock using CAF data.

4) Canon have just entered into the mirrorless market and (Kudos to them) have chosen to use their standard lens mount rather than a new one. Therefore new lenses will be expected to incorporate the continuous servos essential for CAF.

I'm not sure how new all this is.Remember the ultra fast super precise E3 + 12-120mm?

0 upvotes

"Canon have chosen to use their standard lens mount rather than a new one."
really?

0 upvotes

No, not really....but close!

There will be small wide angle lenses utilizing the retrofocal advantage, then with an adapter you can use all EF-S lenses with crop as per APS-C.

Far different from Nikon who have a new system where you COULD use F mount lenses via an adapter, but with such a difference in sensor size the whole thing is not well matched.

Canon's approach is similar to 4/3 & m4/3. And as was seen there, the DSLR lenses needed better servos and or firmware to work well with CAF.

0 upvotes

I am not a geeky guy. All I can say is that I have to shoot extra frames with my 5DkII if I want to go back home with something in focus.

I have just returned from Camboya, Vietnam and Singapure with more than 5000 files. 30% of my pics show a very annoying soft focus. A third of them are my mistake, but I cannot find a reasonable explanation for the other two thirds....., until now. A thousand files are soft when shooting high contrast scenes in good lighting. My hands are not those of a surgeon, but they're steady enough. Frustrating. Perhaps my skills are not up to the task, perhaps Roger has a point

Thanks Roger

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Ever wonder how our own visual system (eye and brain) focuses so accurately and fast?

Here is an abstract of research with defocus and how that can be used for focusing on natural images, and suggests that this method will soon be developed and used in cameras.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/09/16/1108491108.abstract

1 upvote

I love it when he said 1)it gives me a headache

0 upvotes

Interestingly he hardly pick up on the 7D result sticking out
like a sore thumb amongst the rebel group where
it shouldn't belong......

he went on and one about 5Dmk2 and mk3
and new lens.....

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

1 upvote

Excatly! Love my 7D with the new firmware update

0 upvotes

I never found the 7D to be amazingly precise for AF. Has lots of points, lots of cross that will lock and speed but it wasn't a precision beast in my experience (although I did find it better than xxD).
Also keep in mind there is more to real world AF than these tests and the 7D will do somewhat better than a rebel or xxD in many scenarios and the 5D3 will outdo the 5D2 even using older lenses in some real world scenarios.

1 upvote

7D's AF should be used for 60D and xxxDs. for top APS-C models, 1D's 45-point AF should be the choice, 61-points now. I won't mind if they use Nikon's 51-point one.

0 upvotes

Just road testing a D4 Nikon lent me and I have to say that the AF makes even the D3s look a bit average!!

0 upvotes

I agree, DPR should hire Roger. I printed out all his articles in the series so I could curl up in bed with them ... and I don't do that often!

A pity he didn't look at the 24-105L on the 5DII and 5DIII. I've noticed an improvement, but not as dramatic as with the 70-300L. The 24-105 is seven years old now, so perhaps Canon will release a Mk II with better AF to match the 5DIII and 1D X ...

0 upvotes

Wow, the 7D is behind the new rebel...

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

Thank you again Roger, and DPReview for posting this article. It is nice to keep up with the new options/improvements and without you we wouldn't know. Very interesting and thanks again.

Don....

1 upvote

The changes to the lenses might also be aimed at performing better with contrast detection AF. That helps to bridge to mirrorless and helps hybrid AF

0 upvotes

The 7d is th worst performing AF Ive ever had the displeasure of using. Its going back to canon for the 4th time. Right here, right now im filling out yet another damn repair form.

Its GARBAGE. 50% Af rate. Tons of MFA adjustments. Af locks that are so blurry you would want to kick it down the street.

Terrible product, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone upgrading from a rebel. And my xsi & t2i? Spit on, with their lesser Af systems.

junk.

3 upvotes

I guess your "mileage varied." Unfortunate. Can't tell where the problem lies just b/c other sensor bodies work fine with those lenses.

AF (and burst) is rock-solid in a correclty understood, performing and operated 7D, lens, photographer combination.

My 7D has outstanding AF performance across lenses. I liked MFA inclusion, haven't needed it yet. AF keeper rate not an issue unless I blow it given subject or conditions (lower keeper rate with servo). Frees me to concentrate on focus point selection (I do actively), composition, the right moment...that's how good the AF is. I see the SD listed in the article, but translated to my shooting, I don't know what it means. As an enthusiast, I shoot primarily sports (baseball, cycling, basketball), wildlife and landscapes, absent a full frame cam for landscapes currently.

I invested time to understand and config the AF for my needs. That paid off with performance, control and confidence.

Comment edited 11 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

I have a T3i and a 60d and they seem to have no focusing issues with the 5 or 6 lenses I have. Was thinking about picking up a 7d. Now I'm not so sure I want one. Is this a wide spread issue with 7d??

0 upvotes

7D's are workhorse camera's that probably also get rented out a lot and thus could have a higher possibility of getting the PDAF sensor dirty or out of spec over time? But at the same time it could be the 7D PDAF sensor trades off center point AF performance with more coverage and tracking complexity compared to a very simplistic 60D/t4i PDAF sensor. Looking at the numbers you shouldn't make a big deal at +/- 5 differences...what should be taken away however is that the 1DX and 5DMKIII have stunning performance that equals CDAF on newer lenses.

0 upvotes

If you read through all articles in the series, you will see that they are talking about very slight degrees of OOF-ness and that too when viewed under pixel peeping conditions. In normal conditions you will not see the difference

0 upvotes

Thanks for the info. guys. 1DX and 5DMk3 are a little out of my budget. I think I'll pull the trigger on the 7d. My Canon lenses (some of them L) are all new this year. Hopefully, I won't have any issues as I don't seem to with T3i and 60d. Of coarse, I guess if I didn't get 3 cams, I could have got 1 really good one.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

My 7D AF works. There is... something with it, not quite OOF but "something" that I did not figured out yet (and I suspect it might be related with perfect camera / lens "communication" -sorry if it sounds stupid- or...so rather a "software" issue). My 5D II is very slow, but always "spot on". My "ancient" EOS 3 AF is a hell of an AF... it blows off the road the 7D & 5D Mk II combined. Cheers! :)

1 upvote

I JUST DO NOT TRUST can it at all. After having a full set up of there cameras and almost every lens, I was just tired of 30 to 40 percent of my shots OUT OF FOCUS,, all the time !!! (A RUSSIAN ROULETTE FOCUSING SYSTEM, THAT COSTS MORE ). So they may have a newer camera that MIGHT focus,, if you get the correct NEW lens to match the NEW body?? So instead of that switch ,, why not SWITCH TO NIKON INSTEAD?? The NIKON system WORKS BEAUTIFULLY and cost you less ! can it also has an exposure glitch. The metering system is wac-ooo, it likes to go on vacations .I also want to point out that there service center in Irvine is so BAD,, it just forces you to switch even if you except the out of focus images as an artsy effect, we like to call boken , or is that broken??!! There really is something wrong at can not. From quality control on down. It's sad, they were the leader,, now they are a first place looser. But great article,, to bad it even was written ..sad can it sad.

0 upvotes

Pedantically, a Russian roulette focusing system would have a failure rate of 16.6%. Or 14.28% if you're being ultra-pedantic, and I will give a gold star to the first person who can explain why 14% is the more accurate figure.

0 upvotes

It would be easier to understand your comment if you used the word "Canon" instead of "can" which is another word entirely. I tried switching to Nikon and it didn't work out for me, and didn't cost a bit less. I've had excellent service from Canon. I do wish Canon had better AF in the past, but it still got the job done, and they are obviously improving with their latest cameras. I'm very happy about that.

0 upvotes

Ashley- The Russian Nagant M1895 held 7 Rounds and was a revolver popular at the turn of the century when Russian Roulette gained its noteriety. (1 Round out of 7 would be 14.28)

0 upvotes

I have one. The cylinder comes up and seats with the barrel when it is rotated. This gives a little extra muzzle velocity and allows the thing to be suppressed (not normal for a revolver). Lastly, the cartridges look weird.

0 upvotes

2 and 1/2 years ago, there was a thread where people were having trouble with the 7D AF compared to their previous xxD bodies, and I chimed in, with the same experience (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&message=34305542). At that time, most people were discounting the 7D AF issues as user error or people not understanding how to use the 7D's "advanced AF system". Since my AF usage was very straight-forward, and I'm used to "advanced AF systems" from using 1D bodies, I knew it wasn't just lack of experience. I still get lots of slightly OOF photos, but I've mitigated it a bit by taking more frames and changing my technique to maximize the number of keepers.

0 upvotes

Only now we see first incarnations of positional feedback (encoder) built inside the lenses AND better, more accurate stepper motors, combined with more accurate in-body contrast detection algorithm.

Approx. 8 years ago I opened 24-105L and 350D…. never bought a peace of canon photographic equipment again. But, I know exactly what motion control is, how it works, what positional and velocity feedbacks are, and how to obtain end-point accuracy of < 1mm over full run of 20m if an axis travels at max speed 1000 m/s. This principle should be implemented inside the lenses AND camera bodies. Amazing what canon managed to sell to their customers at the premium prices.
And if someone complained about canon inaccurate, inconsistent AF servo on canon forums…? The person was proclaimed a troll and bullied left, front and right.

Guess what we can all do with our expensive lens collection… (well, I bought only one lens, and made it a final canon purchase ever)……

0 upvotes

Do you know how Sony, Pentax, or Nikon fares in AF implementation? Roger is going to take a look at Nikon next, just wondering if you already know the inside scoop or not.

0 upvotes

Interesting read.

0 upvotes

I really want to know why my 1DSMKII is better focusing that any other camera from Canon that I owe (5DI,1DSMKIII,1DMKIV), didn't try the new 5DMKIII or 1DX yet.....

0 upvotes

Because it sampled the scene more accurately (it obtained the required phase-detection image more accurately). HOWEVER, the body had still calculated how far CW (or anti CW) to send the focusing motor (single shot!) WITHOUT any chance of checking if the obtained result WILL produce sharp, in-focus result.

1 upvote

What bothers me about Mr. Cicala's article being posted on DPR is that he can't be held out as an objective reviewer. My first question: why wasn't this testing done during the 5D II heyday? Answer: because Mr. Cicala is human and it wouldn't make sense business-wise to "expose" the poor AF performance of the 5D2 and hurt rental sales (it's not like most of us didn't already know this anyway). Now that Canon has released some whizbang replacement cameras, Mr. Cicala obv iously feels safe in discussing the 5D2's rather significant limitations

Mr. Cicala certainly has the right to post a review on his own website and is appropriate there but DPR should pull their head out and recognize the rather significant conflict of interest inherent here.

5 upvotes

So, you would prefer a different brand biased article. Could you name it?

2 upvotes

OLYMPUS!!! lol...please write a biased article about Olympus!

2 upvotes

"My first question: why wasn't this testing done during the 5D II heyday?"
Wait, you expect this testing to be done for each and every camera model?

2 upvotes

I am with Rick actually. Given that 5DII was the best DSLR in its time Roger could have and should have done the same testing already. Rick's got his point.

But..........................we already knew the AF of 5DII sucks and when it comes to technology, newer the better.

0 upvotes

"why wasn't this testing done during the 5D II heyday?"

How about: the 5DIII didn't exist yet, so this comparison couldn't be made. Likewise, the lenses that show improved AF accuracy with the 5DIII hadn't been created yet. You can't show that something has been improved if it hasn't been created yet. What is interesting is not the known inconsistency of past cameras, but the measurable improvement of the most recent cameras (5DIII, 1DX).

I don't agree with your cynicism. In various blog posts Roger has proven to be a straight-talker about photo gear and has provided a number of informative analyses that no one else has. To say that he could have or should have done some testing earlier isn't fair; he's not some public testing organization. He has a business to run. That he does any testing and publishes it is a free benefit to photographers. Don't like it? Not fast enough for you? Then do it yourself.

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting

9 upvotes

Mr. Cicala does these tests not to pimp his business but, basically, because he's a geek. He's criticized lots of equipment that is out there currently for rental. Recently he's given up control of the company but is still on staff to write geeky articles.

I don't think there's anything nefarious going on here: the reason Roger'd not tested these PDAF systems before is because he'd been 1) too busy running a business to test everything, and 2) testing lots and lots of other things.

2 upvotes

Looking at his blog history he only ventured down the AF route as he was doing MTF tests on recent bodies and lenses and noticing far less variation in AF and different behaviors based on pairings of bodies and lenses. It could have been he never ventured down this road because *both* Canon and Nikon did not exhibit any behavior that was not par for the course. I guess Roger's findings on Nikon will either show one of three things. That 1. Nikon has been producing PDAF bodies + lens combination that *always* achieved near CDAF levels of AF accuracy and no one felt compelled to bear this out in testing previously. Or that 2. Only Canon's recent offerings is breaking new ground in AF accuracy. Or 3. Nikon is on similar ground and their latest bodies and lens also show similar performance improvements. I'm guessing everyone will be paying close attention to that blog in the meanwhile.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Hi
great article!
but may i ask a question about Phase-detection autofocus ?
seening the new trend of the mirrorless camera ,i'm confused by the "Phase-detection autofocus"

is the servo mode? the tracking mode ? or the sensor cmos focus mode?

thanks

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Hi mantra!
You have to read all articles related to AF if you don't understand the basics. Especially this http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/07/how-autofocus-often-works
Mirrorless cameras basically do not have phase detection, they are contrast-based. The new Canon EOS M has hybrid sensor but it seems it uses phase detection only during movie on-the-fly focusing.

1 upvote

thanks DavesMan !

0 upvotes

I believe that Canon EF lenses have always had focus position feedback encoders. The focus motor is operated under closed loop position control. So has Roger really found anything new here?

1 upvote

they did not. no positional feedback what-so-ever.

0 upvotes

I have repaired many EF lenses and they have all had focus group position feedback encoders. How else can you get focus distance for ETTL?

0 upvotes

Most EF lenses have absolute encoders to give focus distance data for ETTL-II. The all have incremental encoders on the focus motor rotors to allow position contol of the focusing group.

0 upvotes

So according to these tests the 7D's AF is not that good then?

0 upvotes

Read the comments. He says that it might be that you have to learn with it. But so you have to with 5DM3.
I own both of them and I can say that 7D is much more reliable in focus terms than 5DM2 (which I also owned). Even the graph shows something different. Maybe bad sample. 7D surely isn't worst of them all as shown by the graph.

0 upvotes

I checked my 5DII vs. 7D with 100L. The 5DII showed about the same variance as Rogers, the 7D fared way worse. In another run, I used the 40mm STM with 7D and found it highly consistent. I reached no conclusion yet.

2 upvotes

Yeah, curious and disheartening, isn't it? Out of ten cameras, it's tied for last place (in this test with these particular body samples and lens). So much for all the chest thumping about the 7D kicking the 5D2's butt with a result of 38.5 vs. 41! Old and antiquated AF ability indeed. I have to hope he had a very poorly performing 7D for this test. One thing seems to be sure (if you take these results at face value) is that before I upgrade from 5D2 to 3, I'll also have to pack in my lenses and buy the updated ones. Yikes. Or...I can relax and enjoy my equipment and continue to use it as I always have.

0 upvotes

If you are shooting center point only and non moving targets, apparently yes.

Roger's tests say nothing about the other features of the 7D's AF system or performance compared to the other bodies. Moving targets and non center point AF, AI servo etc.

Also the 7D may have showed the largest variation in focus but that doesn't say anything about whether the group range is acceptable in terms of image quality sharpness.

1 upvote

Not just non-moving targets. I take pictures of airplanes using center point AI Servo, and the 7D has very inconsistent focusing compared to the other xxD bodies I've owned (20D + 40D). The 1DmIII and 1DmIV I've owned have near-perfect AF for my purposes, but of course, they are in a different class.

0 upvotes

I've had good results with my 7D. It seems comparable to the 40D and 5D2 for me. Of course I've found the 1D series better in all respects. I've used all the 1D since the 1DII (not the 1Ds series nor the 5D3).

0 upvotes

the 7d AF is terrible.

0 upvotes

While acknowledging Roger's significant and praiseworthy article and applauding his systematic approach to the subject, I believe that the conclusions can not be laid in concrete until multiple samples of each camera model and each lens have been tested to obtain more reproducible results.

One cannot make such definitive pronouncements on the basis of testing only one sample per model.

2 upvotes

Another superb Roger Cicala article. It's such a pleasure to read worthwhile article which based on intelligent testing and thinking. I find Cicala's articles by far the most interesting and worthwhile, I always learn something new that explains a lot about photographic equipment, therefore I am awarding Roger Cicala an honorary Ph.D. (that is a Photography Degree :)

All kidding aside, Cicala not only has a great sense of humor but he thinks like a scientist which is praiseworthy, indeed.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

3 upvotes

Considering how awful the 5D2 AF was, anything is an improvement

1 upvote

What an interesting article.

And somebody should start charging all those marketoids with fraud already.

0 upvotes

You forgot that advertising is legalized lying and amount of cheating and lying which would end to person's head being chopped off is completely legal for corporations. (+politicians)

1 upvote

Who said it is legalized? It's a felony (fraud), it is just not criminally enforced for some reason (just like illegal immigration etc). Sometimes it is enforced in civil cases when lawyers see a big payout for themselves.

0 upvotes

"As an aside, I am particularly skilled in finding them because usually if you touch them with your fingers the lens won’t focus anymore and the unit has to be replaced."

I LMAO on that one!

0 upvotes

on the end you have to be aware that once you buy new gear, you pay for something. So you await something new and to see it. Even if your picture will not be better, the view in a viewfinder and seeing in there a huge larger amount of points is worth to pay all that money, don't you think so. I found the "few" cross-points of the Fuji S6 to be sufficient for any good shot and my old manual film cameras as well. I use the NEX-7, mainly in manual and the Manual assist brings me close to what I look for, without any point shown, only colored halos show ma where the sharpness is located on the shot. So, complex AF not needed anymore, I find myself to be faster than the lens motor, and, it's much more funny. I tried i without the assist and made same good shot except in situations where you have to be fast. Here Sony's manual assist is a real bargain.

1 upvote

So, make me any camera with that manual assist, make cheaper good glass without complex electronics and the deal is perfect, at least for me. But, I am not alone on the world, there is also money and all that turns around it, unfortunately.Sorry but when I was child and even young man, there was no computer, no digital, no color TV and we made great shots, with great manual cameras. So, is all just a fruit of your imagination or commercial brainwash? Guess?

1 upvote

I suggest you go back and do a truly objective analysis and comparison of the "great shots" you made before computers and digital and colour TV with the shots made now with today's equipment.

I used to think as you do, but my eyes were opened a few years ago when I compared my old stuff with what I had made with digital.

It is true that the photographers were good then (at least some were). However, although a good photographer can do wonders with poor equipment he/she will do even better with today's technology.

Roger's results are astounding and his analysis excellent, but it does not make my 5D Mk II a bad camera - just not quite so good as the Mk III. This is to be expected. My Mk II was still a step up from the 40D I had before and is still a great camera.

Similarly the fact that Roger states that my 650D is not as accurate as it could be simply proves you get what you pay for. I am happy with it, given my reason for buying it.

3 upvotes

His posts on lens tear downs when he does them are also fantastic.

1 upvote

Roger's blog is actually fun to read. He usually presents geeky stuff in a way that can be understood easily. I really got a handle on how to read MTF charts after I read his posts.

I like his sense of humor and also appreciate how tech savvy he is.

9 upvotes

Cicala's articles are of the highest quality. Truly enjoyable and informative. Looking forward to the continuation on Nikon AF. Tech-savy guy with resources (doing the testing against all those bodies must have been a incredible amount of work.) DPR should be envious ;)

10 upvotes

Conclusion... newer is better.

3 upvotes

Yes, every one once in a while this is true.

3 upvotes

Except with computer operating systems. And most software.

2 upvotes

Regarding software, newer IS usually better in the beginning. It's all up hill for the first few months/years of development, then it reaches it's zenith where the developers should stop adding features and just focus on stability. They never do that though and down the other side of the hill it goes. Once bloated to the point of uselessness, everyone moves onto the next big thing only to see the cycle start all over again. It is physically impossible for a developer to stop when good sense says they should lol.

4 upvotes

Katie, that next cycle hardly ever starts with as little bloat as previous. Mostly it just continues from old and adds even more bullet point engineered bloat.
For example MS conveniently even gives table about bloating of one typical software whose bloating surely has done nothing to help people do more work:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee624351.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth's_Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bloat#Examples
These aren't any jokes, in 18 years I've seen many commercially made programs to become big piles of crap spreading to consume all resources like some cancer.
Besides Nero you can add all commercial video players. Heck, even antivirus softwares often act like viruses slowing down PCs.

0 upvotes

This guy is obviously a Nikon owner/Canon hater. ;-)

2 upvotes

Yeah - this is real stuff. Or at least so it seems.

0 upvotes

my head is spinning and i read it 3 days ago

0 upvotes

The link above is a new posting from today. Part 3B.

0 upvotes

I have been following this for the past week. Very interesting results and good to know he will be doing Nikon lenses and bodies next.

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

this is worth reading

0 upvotes

Simon.... you need to hire this Cicala guy.

His tech knowledge is astounding, and he can write really well.

13 upvotes

I doubt DPR can afford him but maybe if Bezos can. ;)

2 upvotes

Roger gets to hang around a warehouse full of camera gear and basically borrow whatever he wants whenever it's not being rented. :) I think he's quite happy where he is!

0 upvotes

Roger,

Is it really the case that the 5DII can't take advantage of the newer Canon lenses only because of some new hardware feature found in the 5DIII and the 1DX but not in the 5DII? Or is it that the 5DII focus motor is, for example, programmed to move in larger increments, so overshoot occurs. In the 5DIII, with smaller increments, then there would be less overshoot. IOW, I suspect that Canon simply denies features to lesser cameras just to distinguish the higher ranker models.

So I'm interested in whether the hacking community can attack the barriers to use of the new lenses for more accurate focus. I doubt that all of the differences are hardware related. more likely, I suspect rationing of features. Have you looked into this possibility? http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Category:DSLR

Asher

0 upvotes


Roger Cicala compares Zeiss and Canon 135mm f/2 lenses Apr 29, 2013	Roger Cicala looks at the Canon 40mm F2.8 STM pancake lens Jun 21, 2012	Grizzly bear tests limits of rented lens insurance cover May 21, 2012	LensRental's Roger Cicala examines Canon EOS 5D Mark III light leak 'cover-up' May 2, 2012

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Roger Cicala investigates Canon's AF marketing claims

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