Updated: our Canon EOS M hands-on preview: Digital Photography Review

I bought my EOS M about a month ago. Am a new camera user and this is my first DSLR. The camera produces some very remarkable imaging but comes with some major down side. The auto focus is a real pain and slow. Sometimes i never get a focus. a friend of mine chided me off as a bad carpenter blaming the tools. Then i bumped into this: https://vimeo.com/56922158

The other downside is the usage of the EF lens adapter. There is free play of the adapter when the lenses are rotated during focusing and this can sometimes get to you on a difficult day. Am thinking of getting a 7D body now as i have already invested on some EF lenses.

The final downside is the price. One can get better DSLR cameras in this price range.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Will this have back button AF through any of the custom functions?

0 upvotes

Sure, the design looks to be thoroughly thought out (as to be expected), but the omission of a viewfinder in so many of these mirrorless debuts just irks me to no end. I will never again buy a camera without one... I was burned once and that was enough to last me for life! Nothing can replace having a little window to frame things and see it a little differently ...

0 upvotes

P.S. Not trying to pick on and rail on Canon here necessarily, it is just that this one popped up here most recently, and this reminded me of the phenomenon. I do like their designs and features, and I do hope they make a model "with sights" in the near future for everyone's sake. They are just one of many to leave that crucial compositional aid out, and I honeslty did not expect that considering that Canon is practically the only brand to still offer budget compacts with viewfinders! I applaud them for that.
To me, viewfinder=indespensable component of photography.

0 upvotes

Michael Reichmann from Luminous Landscapes said in his his OlympusXZ-1 review that he could not consider the using a compact camera without a viewfinder( the XZ-1 had EVF compatibility so it met his requirements ) In his Sony RX100 review he praises the camera's features , there is no mention of the view finder. I remember the time I walked away from the then new EOS film cameras when updating my older FD lens canon SLR , all that funky autofocus and plastic could not be a serious photographic tool ! The LCD screen is the new viewfinder , not perfect but what a new generation of smartphone, tablet computer, gaming console consumer is comfortable with . I remember my Nikon CP990 with the 1.8" screen and crappy optical viewfinder . Most of us found accessories to enhance the LCD , I am sure this is what will happen with this camera tool

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

"I was burned once and that was enough to last me for life!"

LOL, that's like saying, "I was burned by auto focus once and that was enough to last me for a life! I'm never using AF again!" I remember a lot of long-time manual focus shooters saying that about AF cameras. But obviously, AF cameras have done quite well. And likewise, cameras without viewfinders have done quite well, too.

The funny thing is that whenever I hand my DSLR over to a typical non-DSLR shooter, the first thing they'll do is stare at the rear LCD, expecting to be able to frame the image with the rear LCD. It doesn't occur to them that they have to look through the "little window to frame things." My point is that there is a whole generation of users who are more comfortable using a rear LCD.

0 upvotes

in all fairness to my rejecting the first EOS there was a Canon "Autofocus Attempt" called the T80. Anyone who went down that path would think twice maybe three times about auto focus SLRs hehe

0 upvotes

Is it just me that's tired of seeing Canon throwing the 7D sensor into practically every new camera? I want a body with competent AF and MFA, but when the IQ and ISO performance I would be getting with a 7D is matched by the enthusiast, entry level, and even compact body cams then even the indestructible body, 8fps and that nifty AF somehow feels unnecessary for the price... OM-D I can see myself wielding instead of the M, but hey, EOS glass needs a body ~

0 upvotes

For a landscape photogs like myself, it is indeed good news. I am sick of carrying my 7d plus grip on pre dawn trek or boat rides. But I will be waiting for the availability of Spare Batteries for ultra long exposures and cable release and intervalometer.

0 upvotes

It will be interesting to see how good/bad AF speed is, compared to Sony NEX. For Canon, this is a first-generation product, so I have my doubts.

0 upvotes

I see in specs that EOS M has both contrast- and phase detection focusing. How that phase detection is implemented in such small body, 18 mm from flange to sensor?

0 upvotes

There are special pixels right on the sensor used only for phase detection AF. It's similar to the system used by the Nikon 1. The same sensor, used similarly, is also found on Canon's Rebel t4i.

1 upvote

Nikon 1 was a disaster. wouldn't suprise me if Nikon scraps the whole line and a new crop sensor mirrorless series.

0 upvotes

Oh, that's ingenious. Interesting, that it's not widely used as phase detegtion is in worst case 2x faster (predicts focus direcion) than contrast.

Nikon 1 is another story, lets not dwell into it.

0 upvotes

I'd be very surprised if Nikon doesn't stay with what they've started. Small sensors are getting pretty amazing (see the RX100) and the casual shooters Nikon targets don't know about the dof disadvantage. They really should have made the bodies smaller. With the petite lenses their line would have stood out better from the competition. The EOS-M only stands out because it's from Canon. That's probably enough to sell plenty, but only to people who don't care about price or features. I hope the advanced models are better, but I bet the prices are going to be ludicrous.

0 upvotes

Is it as good as special-purpose phase-detection sensor? As fast and accurate?
Are the same pixels used later also to capture the image?

Please stop spamming Nikon in my thread.

0 upvotes

I like Canon, and this camera will probably sell well. Many very good pics will be shot with it. This camera was coming, and finally its here, not very exciting, but a safe first step I guess. With that said, I am soooo glad I bought the Oly E-m5.

0 upvotes

it will sell well as you say, but "good pics"?
even the full frame models of 2012 still have huge problems taking a good picture when you need it.
how would you define a good pic?
I d need a good pic when the lights are nearly out (only the emergency lights lit in a 200+ conference room) with my ISO exceeding 50k and my 400mm lens to focus on a running/scared celebrity/politician. Of course, the publisher pays for the equipment so the cost is not an issue and everything is insured, and I have a huge press pass to go past the security, BUT couldnt that be enclosed in a smaller camera? Why do I have to carry 2kgs of equipment for anything? I think the technology is there already, but why dont they DO IT? Just build a camera that will save me carrying two extra battery grippers, heavy lenses,cleaning stuff, huge external flash lights and all that stuff an old man is fed up with?

0 upvotes

Because one person is a very small market segment. OK, maybe there are a few hundred with your specific needs. Cameras are designed to sell tens of thousands or more. Eventually sensors may get so sensitive they will meet your needs, but for now, sensors aren't any better than what is sold.

1 upvote

In uk, there were more than 20000 photjournalists in 2003. Equipment cost per person, about 10k. Insurance cost for the company, more than 4.1k per year. Pros are the ones who pay the big sums of money.
FACT: people use their phones to get pictures these days.
FACT2: most people I ve met, consider HD video, way better than a single shot. Even if the video is blurry and of no quality or significance, people still prefer it.
FACT3: if you see the camera time-line, you ll notice that in 2012, the rubish pocket cameras have nearly disappeared, and only the few models of that kind that come out, have huge zoom capability and hi iso (that yields bad quality pics).
People just buy junk cameras that look like a good one in shape or speq-wise, but they are just not adequate. why canon decided to add some more bad pictures? All they have to do is to make a portable cam with the technology of eos5d inside. I think that they can do it, but the "market" is just not ready yet.

Comment edited 17 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

"Display name for fame", I don't think the market isn't ready, but rather there are very few users who would desire, or rather even understand why they would want an FF camera. Most people aren't aware of the difference in format size, but the big companies know that the pro or aspiring enthusiast really wants FF, and those are the ones that will pay big money to go FF, so making a cheap FF camera means less profit for the companies, especially when the "average user" won't know/care.

And yes, people think it's soo cool to shoot video in "HD" and they often prefer just sharing vids no matter how they look, but still, when those people see a good picture, they know it's a good picture.

0 upvotes

To little to late.

0 upvotes

Oh dear, go back to 4th grade English, Too little too late.

1 upvote

Market proves that Canon and Nikon did more right than wrong on their products as a result of where they are.
It is hard to conclude the cameras until trying on, in actual shoots.
I think the EOS-M can be potentially a good side camera of my EOS system.

4 upvotes

yeah...hey you may want to wait for the next version...it is going to be a phone, TOO!!!!!!! :-)

0 upvotes

This is the dominant argument offered in all posts in favor of this camera:
"it is a Canon, and Canon has had many other successful cameras, so we can judge by brand name alone and ignore comparing its known features and specs to those of its competitors".

We do not need to wait for reviews to know about its lack of any eye-level VF option and non tilt-able LCD, the excessive size of its standard zoom lens (which is the dominant lens choice for entry level cameras) compared to various m43 options, needing a bulky and expensive adaptor to use any lenses beyond two EF-M ones, like for any telephoto lens ...

6 upvotes

I would quit photography before I used this camera.

3 upvotes

C'mon...put some $2000 L glass on there....and I will loan you the dark-cloth for my view camera!!!! LOL!
This is the funniest thing I have ever seen marketed in my life...and you know what is funny...Canon has so much marketing power to brainwash people...it works. Its the DUMBING DOWN of photography..and most people do not even see the difference in the results. Welcome to the digital world!!!!!!

3 upvotes

Hi BoyntonBlade
So you've actually tried the camera out and tested it's features? Why not give a review??? Oh yea as your making sweeping statements from only reading specs and reviews. Please do not buy this system.

3 upvotes

People are so narcissistic and self-centered these days that they forget that there is a world of people out there that aren't so narrow-minded and inflexible as they are. These days, people make great photos with all variety of equipment, from film Holgas to iPhones to medium format digital bodies.

1 upvote

I see on Nicon and Cannon mirrorless cameras, and understand, that these companies are not competitive in this segment of market

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

They don't want to be. They could kill the market, should they want to, but they have entry level DSLR's to sell, that's actually what generates the profit for the R&D for the professional tools. C&N have the technology to turn the mirorrless and medium format market onto it's head, but for the sake of profit, future customers and brand recognition, they don't !

Do you really think Nikon has the know how to build the D4 and 200 f/2, but they can't build a decent compac camera ? Do you really think canon can build a 200-400 f/4 with a built-in tele converter, but the best they could do with the G1x was a f/4 lens ? Boy, do you have alot of things to leanr !

P.S. It's actually Nikon and Canon.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Actually I think its you who has something to learn (!) about the fallibility of companies, about the huge potential for large company employees to ignore new trends and continue doing what they are doing regardless, and about the number of currently large companies who - if history of economics and business teaches us anything - will screw up within the next hundred years.

Canon and Nikon's future success is likely but not guaranteed and they are not immune to shortsightedness and a focus too much on reducing costs versus increasing revenue from growing markets.

I wanted to include a reference to a piece of recent research about the 100 top companies from around the year 100. Only a dozen or so remain. I'm sorry I couldn't find the reference after a few minutes, I don't ask you to take my word for it, so look instead at research on , for example, corporate governance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_governance

1 upvote

oops I mean year approx 1800 not 100!

0 upvotes

Not sure what else Nikon is into aside from general purpose optics, but at least Canon's major market is scanners/printers and dealing wholesale as an "official partner". And trying to stay alive is a reason why Canon jumped into the video industry, though they did screw up and not really listen to what videographers wanted, and allowed Nikon to take a lead with the D800. But to say, although they aren't doing much good to the mirrorless market they do have their own future plans and understanding, they're not totally blind of what has potential and what would keep them afloat.

0 upvotes

This STM focus business sounds like an excellent idea for the type of people who are into hacking mirroless cams to make compelling cinema-esque film.

Otherwise, it seems like a pisspoor decision to put slow AF on an expensive camera aimed at the low end of the market.

2 upvotes

STM is designed mainly for filming though.

If you want fast AF you can always use a lens with USM.

0 upvotes

Though in the end, videographers don't (shouldn't) rely on AF, as it's accuracy/hunting can't beat manual control. For basic everyday video, then maybe one should just use a wide angle so everything's in focus anyway... like every other cheap cam with video

0 upvotes

So many here make the mistake of associating the typical camera buyer with the typical DPR reader. These cameras will fly off the shelves of Best Buys and Camera stores everywhere.

Remember that guy/gal asking all those amateur questions at the camera store the last time you were there? The one that was hogging all the employee's attention when you were just trying to buy a new memory card? Yes, that is the person this camera is aimed for.

Also, remember when you tried to get your significant other interested in photography? Remember when you failed because they could never see themselves carrying around a brick to take photos with? Yes, this camera is aimed at that person too.

Remember when you wanted to take shots at your buddy's party, but you didn't want to be a dork lugging around an expensive DLSR? Yes, this camera is aimed at you too.

17 upvotes

Well, that sounds like some excellent marketing apologistics--what can you say positive about the actual camera?

In the real world it focuses slow, relies too heavily on a touchscreen for no clear/valid reason, lacks a viewfinder, and has only two lenses to choose from.

1 upvote

@micahmedia

There are many people with Rebels that almost exclusively use contrast detect AF on their live view screens. Many of these people have iPhones and the touch screen will be a huge selling feature. They are used to their camera phones and P&S with slow AF and no viewfinder. It's what they know.

They are going to get shallow DOF at f/2 that they didn't know was possible with the kit lens. That and the add on lens for most will be all they need. For others, there is the adapter.

3 upvotes

"So many here make the mistake of associating the typical camera buyer with the typical DPR reader."
Agreed so far: this first EOS-M camera targets the substantial "step up from camera-phone" market.

"These cameras will fly off the shelves of Best Buys and Camera stores everywhere. ..."
You offer good reasons for people buying this _sort_ of camera, but ignore the numerous other options from Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung etc. competing for the same customers, and offering far more choices of bodies, lenses and features, and lower prices for the entry level models. If Canon's hybrid AF is really as slow as some testing suggests (on the 650D/T4i too), what advantage does this camera have over the other more established "live view camera systems"?

One hint: up-graders from camera-phones and such will probably not be worried that the 4/3" sensor is too small (being about 16 times larger in area than most phone sensors). The will probably instead think that the 18-55 lens is too big.

3 upvotes

@facedodge

There are many mirrorless currently available that are targeted the same user (P&S upgrader) and they are cheaper while being better in some ways: smaller, faster focusing, have brighter lenses available, etc.

In addition, a beginner wouldn't have a nice set of EF/EF-S lenses to adapt to this camera anyway, so that 'feature' is moot.

1 upvote

You guys make good points... There are many other options.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Cameras-Camcorder-Promotions/Digital-Imaging-Offers/pcmcat37600050025.c?id=pcmcat37600050025#compact

However, the camera was just announced and it's already on the top of the list at Best Buy. It's Canon. The name matters. People know Canon = Camera. Powershot upgraders will trend toward the Canon M.

I don't think Best Buy carries Panasonic, Fuji, or Olympus compact system cameras at the stores.

The Nikon 1 looks like a can of sardines. And the Sony Nex has a lot going on with the tilt screen, viewfinder and all those buttons. I see a lot of people thinking it's just too much.

There will be competition, but I think we will see Canon's M outperforming all of them.

3 upvotes

The thing is, the type of consumer that would buy this camera wont know that others have better AF, or more lenses available, or, better controls, or a different sized sensor, or a EVF, ect and frankly don't care to know all that "geeky," "complicated," stuff. All they will care about is if they can get it in the color they prefer and that it has Canon written on the front.

The biggest factors that sways these types consumers to one camera over another is what they see in commercials and what the store clerk tells them. Canon doesn't care as much how this camera stacks up against the others in this category because the only people who spend hours online comparing cameras are the enthusiasts that Canon want's to buy a semipro DSLR and expensive lenses instead of the EOS M.

1 upvote

And everyone will know that you paid twice as much as the better spec'd Samsung NX200. How cool are you....wow, you can afford to throw money away.

0 upvotes

Writing off the "Canon" factor as ignorance or a desire to be cool misses the point. Canon is considered the most successful and respected camera maker. They didn't get there purely by ignorance, coolness, or just marketing. They had to back that up with products that people were happy to buy, use, and later replace or upgrade. Canon is likely to be there for them.

In addition, it is an EOS and part of that ecosystem. People upgrading from P&S and cell phones, and even some beginners often want to buy into a system they know is deep and growing, even if they never buy more than a kit zoom. And if you have some EF or EF-S lenses, Canon flashes etc., then they will work. No colored wires hanging out.

Finally, image quality. OK, Sony may have the edge, but the EOS-M gives you EOS 7D quality for $800. And Canon lenses - the broadest range, specialist optics if ever needed etc. The first two and other recent small EF lenses appear to be excellent, inexpensive.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

1 upvote

@OP facedodge:
I always thought that for each situation you mention, is what the enthusiast compacts were for:
ie: RX100, XZ-1, X10, G12, P7100... ;-p

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

@Timmbits

Yes, but some people can't identify the difference between a RX100 and a Cybershot. They see the price difference and go... huh?

Now, when they go to the store they see big camera with big lenses on the left, small point and shoots on the right, and small point and shoots with big lenses in the middle. They instantly infer that you have pro, enthusiast, amateur. They say they want to go enthusiast but not pro, so they go to the middle where the Nikon 1 and EOS M are.

I have 2 in my family that bought the Nikon 1 and this was their train of thought.... the pink option was what won them over.

Comment edited 54 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

To be fair I have been a DSLR user since 2007 & I finally said "you know what? I do not intend on going pro and I can't pick a compact because the image quality is shitty (especially for me a pixel peeper)

I switched this year from 1D mark II to OM-D E-M5 & you know what? I am taking WAY more photos, taking the camera with me FAR MORE & getting lots of good shots I would of missed because I can carry it in my jacket pocket.

I have had several DSLR's examples: 350D 20D 450D 1D Mark II, Pentax K10D, K20D & probably forgetting 1-2 DSLR's.

And honestly? I am happier than I have ever been now with a micro four thirds. The reason is it provides great image quality & gives me portability.
Sure a DSLR outperforms it, but its a nice middle way where you sacrifice neither image quality nor the customization.

I do have little faith though in the Nikon & Canon mirrorless market. Perhaps in a few years time they will be worthy of a purchase, but so far Olympus & Panasonic are just way ahead.

1 upvote

How very true. The vast majority know nothing about digital cameras and for the majority of these I suspect they buy on price and size after #1 consideration - how many pixels does it have!

So, high pixel count, small size and low price and you have, sir, just sold a camera to a member of the unsuspecting public!

1 upvote

There are people and people. There are cameras mad for people and others made for the other people. All is about what you are and to where you belong to. You want an all-round tourist camera with good picture quality and good all-round lenses, you go for a M, if you ow Canon gear or stick to that brand because you wrongly think it is better. If for sure, you are a serious photographer who likes old style manual and AF picture taking, you go for a NEX-7. With an adapter you may use Canon lenses on it as well, and the manual focusing assist is proper to Sony. You aim and focus and when sharp, the sharp portions get surrounded by a colored halo. You have the choice between red, white or yellow halo. You focus manually that fast with a Nex-7 that any AF lens gets jealous.

0 upvotes

So, what? the buttons are there to parameter fast steps and it works according to your needs. It took me 2 days to know the camera and parameter all to my needs. No other camera offers that comfort. So, just chose to what people you belong to, and make a choice. Canon will not make you better, nor will Nikon or Sony do. Who cares about a brand as long as it fits your needs. For sure Sony could think about making a few more glasses for the NEX, specially for the other kind of people.

0 upvotes

The Sony NEX c3 is as good or better than the 650d (which is supposed to be the same as the M) and yes you can use Canon lenses. And it's way cheaper.

3 upvotes

or F3 for that matter, which can be had for about the same price

0 upvotes

" the 18-55mm focuses pretty quickly,"

Really?

Surprising assesment!

Did you need to do any tweaking to get OK focus speeds (turn off face detection, select a single AF point or whatever?).

I'm asking because your assesment is a bit out of line with what the rest of the blogsphere is reporting:

The verge: "laggier than the NEX–5N, but offered results comparable to a good point-and-shoot." ($800 is an amazing price to pay for P&S class AF).

IR: " a lot of buyers are going to be frustrated with the EOS M."

Engadget: "Speaking of focusing, our experience was surprisingly sluggish, even with the 22mm and 18-55mm kit lenses. "

2 upvotes

It's too bad they couldn't have done something original with the kit zoom, like make it a constant f/4. As-is, it's an also-ran.

0 upvotes

its a kit lens, enough said

1 upvote

yeah but the body is so uninspiring that they could have done something extra with the lens to make the package stand out a little. but nope!

0 upvotes

1. It is already too big if anything: small, light entry level cameras need small, light kit lenses, which limits them to small apertures.

2. Constant f-stop zoom designs are anachronisms: an f/2.8-4 can be about as small and light as a constant f/4, while being faster at most focal lengths. That is why f/2.8-4 or f/2.8-3.5 is what I want in step-up zoom lenses for the higher level models in these systems.

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

what is so uninspiring ? I shoot a 5D3 and this looks like a nice little camera that I can mount all my expensive glass on or put a little pancake lens on, all the things you need to customize a shot are in the touch screen menu

0 upvotes

Ross, I also shoot a 5D3. There would be no point in putting any large lens on this camera, like a 24-70, 70-200, 35L, or even a 17-40. May as well carry your 5D3 then. 35/2, 50/1.8, *maybe*. I find the lack of manual control dials uninspiring. Also the slow AF.

3 upvotes

I think a 35 1.4 or Canons new fisheye would be great fun on this little guy, it looks to me like a great little back up camera for my casual shooting. A lot of people are going to buy this camera, you should look at the Amazon pre sales. Maybe not for you, but I will surely enjoy it. The big thing is the IQ this brings to a small package.

0 upvotes

I agree the IQ will be great if you can learn to live and operate with its many limitations. I will be waiting for something with real manual controls, and better AF, thanks.

0 upvotes

I see a lot of comments wondering about who this is for. I'd suggest Canon has aimed at what perhaps is the typical Rebel shooter. Those who simply wanted a better images than a P&S. I would say that most, including those I know, shoot in auto exclusively, only with the kit lens and don't care about a viewfinder (There's nothing wrong with that and of course that doesn't mean all Rebel shooters do likewise!). I'd also say most would have preferred a smaller camera. Well now they have the choice at the same price as a 650D. The main thing I wonder about is no built in flash, but Sony have obviously got away with that. It should be included in the price though. So apart from the pricing, I think Canon have got it right. It's not for me though.

3 upvotes

It's aimed at keeping Canon users from straying over to Sony (F3) or Samsung (NX1000, NX20, NX210) or micro4/3 or Nikon1, by offering a similar form-factor,
but WITHOUT competing with the existing Canon lineup.
So they had to design some disappointments into it. Purposefully!
It is a pure competitive move for Canon, not for it's users.

Comment edited 54 seconds after posting

1 upvote

The EOS-M macro sample shows how much nicer APS-C renders images compared to those from m43 and smaller sensor
cameras when subtle DOF differences are important to the composition.

http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/canon_eos_m_macro_sample.jpg

That said, there are better options for photography in APS-C like the X-Pro1, X100, NEX-5N, and NEX-7. Aside from IQ differences, a viewfinder is not something I'd consider optional. Aside from composing, you simply cannot hold a camera steady as well with arms stretched out squinting at the LCD. But I'm sure Canon video shooters will buy this as a B-camera to easily mount anywhere.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

That example is stopped down f/8 to get _enough_ DOF, as is almost always the case with macros. A m4/3 camera could get the same DOF at about f/6, or less DOF at the lower f-steps offered by many m4/3 lenses. Even a Nikon One could match that DOF.

2 upvotes

I would just emphasize on IQ and high ISO performance for the time being. If both are good, then the EOS-M is good to go.

ps. I'm a Nikon DSLR user, what a pity!

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Considering the market offers and product characteristics, the right price for the Canon EOS-M camera with zoom lens and kit flash is exactly USD 600. It may come down from 650 bucks as a start for novelty surcharge. That is it. Check prices of competitors. Innovation and competitiveness must be reflected in the price.

0 upvotes

This is really a lackluster news. Too little, too late, too expensive, too boring, too uninspiring.

Canon, Panasonic got you beat in this market. If you want to play and specially if you want to become a market leader in the mirror-less segment, you need to top the competition and/also offer your product at competitive pricing.

You are doing it all wrong, poor showing, at too high price range. And overall extremely a slow shooter and needless to say uninspiring offering.

I am a Canon fan but shoot with Panasonic. Win me back!

4 upvotes

And now this on the heels of yesterday's announcement?

What a coincidence!

Comment edited 14 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

No viewfinder

0 upvotes

Canon really lacks imagination.

3 upvotes

Lets hear what you can imagine. Maybe they need to hear it too.

C

3 upvotes

Canon was free to peek up another letter from alphabet instead of well known for a half-century already M mount from Leica at least.

1 upvote

You mean - they should have slapped a Ferrari logo on it and charged $5000 more for the same camera?

0 upvotes

I mean that if you type "M lens" at B&H search you will get both Canon and Leica.

And no Canon M does not fit Leica M and Leica M does not fit Canon M they are physically different mounts. Meanwhile there are many unoccupied by a specific mount type letters available in alphabet.

Cannon behaves kinda straightly unprofessional just as plain as that.

0 upvotes

I hope the next body has dedicated control dials for aperture, shutter speed, exposure compensation, and ISO. I'm glad it's APS-C though.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

I hope the next body will have larger monitor , like 3.5 or 4 inches.
This will be excellent choice.

0 upvotes

I kinda like the idea of a simplified, portable camera with DSLR grade image quality. Plus i assume it will work with my canon speedlights. My only real concern is the autofocus speed.

4 upvotes

I have a bit more concerns then that.
- No system to speak of (2 lenses and 1 flash don't make a system.)
- No controls
- No viewfinder or good manual focus assists or battery life (guess you need to take 4 of these into a pocket for any longer trip, lol)
- Old sensor
- Issues with AF (we'll see if it gets confirmed, but so far I'm yet to see anyone playing a camera and strongly denying it)
- Closed bayonet (unlike m4/3 or (to a degree) NEX)
- No perspective of catching up with competition in years (as it keeps running away, especially thanks to 3rd party manufacturers which use open specifications)
IMHO both: m4/3 and NEX are by far better systems. Unless you really necessary need EOS lenses with working AF on mirrorless body - there's no point in buying EOS-M.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

really ? system is called EOS and there will soon be more EOS-M mounts, view finder,who cares, batteries ? how do you know this ?
not heard of AF issues, wheres your source for that ? APSC= better IQ than M43. Working auto focus is kind of nice to have by the way

Don't buy of you don't like, stick with Panasonic or Sony

0 upvotes

"system is called EOS"- if it's a suggestion that this little toy is part of DSLRs family: it's not. System for EOS-M currently is non-existent.
"there will soon be more" - I wouldn't bet on this "soon"-people told the same about Nikon 1 and right now majority of photographers wonder if it'll survive next 2 years at all as Nikon did exactly nothing. Canon system has far more potential then Nikon 1, no doubt, but it's just a flea comparing to NEX system.
"view finder,who cares" - obviously all those people missing even external accessory viewfinder - for both: m4/3 and NEX you can get various viewfinders ranging from optical to electronic.
"batteries ? how do you know this ?" - I read the specification. Even on paper it looks like a joke comparing to cheapest, 3 years old NEX.
"not heard of AF issues, wheres your source for that ? "
Imaging Resource
"APSC= better IQ than M43" - perhaps in future. Right now there do exist better sensors for m4/3 then the one in EOS-M. OM-D got one.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

5 upvotes

from fisheye to 800mm and all the other stuff its called "EOS", the OM-D is good agreed not seen its sensor called better, its also more expensive and good lenses are mostly big, Nikon screwed up with their tiny sensor, thats their problem not Canon's, cant seem to find your AF issue over at IR.

0 upvotes

I just noticed battery life is rather poor. It's even worse than my current Panasonic G3.

4 upvotes

No doubt this will be a very good camera-image quality-wise. But very conservative. Take an already existing sensor and touch interface; use an Elph platform; etc. For the price, it should have been a two-lens kit.

I do give Nikon credit for trying to stretch the envelope performance-wise and we can see the strategy of each. Expand to new users. Don't tread on existing DSLRs. Those with less market share must be the innovators.

0 upvotes

Dear DPReview, the Leica M8 and the Epson R-D1 predate the introduction of whatever y'all are calling the first interchangeable lens mirrorless, and that Epson by a lot.

2 upvotes

Indeed, and we have made that distinction variously, in different reviews and articles over the past 5 years. But at this point, to call the Epson RD cameras, or the Leica M8 'mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras' in the same breath as talking about the Canon EOS M or Panasonic G5, would be misleading.

Since 2008 the term 'mirrorless interchangeable lens camera' has come to mean a class of cameras with electronic, rather than optical viewing paths, which compete with and have to some extent evolved from (D)SLRs. Rangefinders stand apart - and have always done so.

You're not *wrong*, but the terminology has moved on.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

8 upvotes

Barney, Just curious about your reaction to Panasonic's floating the acronym DSLM. We've yet to hit on something that everyone feels comfortable with and DSLM has the advantage of indicating that the format is similar yet different to DSLRs.

1 upvote

Fuji X-Pro1 would not qualify as a DSLM.

0 upvotes

Barney Britton:

Um, no the terminology has not moved on. A (the) major US retailer is calling the M9 mirrorless.

What you're perfectly right to point out is that the first Panasonic mirrorless was the first mirrorless interchangeable lens still camera with an LCD live view screen; that refinement in no way makes Panasonic the first to ship a mirrorless interchangeable lens still photo system.

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Well, the digital rangefinders are mirrorless in the sense that they lack the mirror found in DSLRs. But they are not "mirrorless", i.e. they do not belong in the category of cameras variously called MILCs, EVILs, CSCs, DSLMs or whatever. Rangefinders really do stand apart.
Leica themselves have hinted at an upcoming entry into the mirrorless arena, suggesting that they don't regard M8/M9 as mirrorless cameras.

2 upvotes

@HowaboutRAW B&H puts the M9 in with Mirrorless cameras as it fits that category better than, obviously the DSLR or P&S categories. I wouldn't draw any conclusions from this placement. It a rangefinder camera and always will be.

1 upvote

No better things to do than waste time with what term fits to what camera. A rangefinder has no mirror, that's it, it is mirror-less.
So, let us simple say that any camera that shoots pictures and has no mirror is mirror less. What is now around on that body to split them then in different categories is another thing. Leica is expensive, has the best lenses and makes not the best picture by sensor quality. Leica could do better, many mirrorless beat it's picture quality with their own lenses and cost 1/10th of it's price

Comment edited 39 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

"A rangefinder has no mirror, that's it, it is mirror-less." - same can be told about every single point&shoot or majority of film interchangeable lens cameras before reflex systems came in or heck: even iPhone which can have interchangeable lenses and doesn't have a mirror.
Mirrorless cameras are what they are, no need to twist the term just because something else doesn't have a mirror. lol

1 upvote

@FTW Perhaps the Fuji X-Pro1, and possibly some of the NEX cameras beat the Leica M9 for IQ/sensor ability, but that's about it. But you need to look at the whole system of lenses, body, and sensor, and I cannot think of a nicer camera system in this segment than an M9 price aside.

0 upvotes

But a rangefinder camera inherently has no mirror, because the viewfinder and focusing don't work through the main lens. Calling a rangefinder "mirrorless" is like calling a cow "wingless".

2 upvotes

All:

The problem was DPReview calling Panasonic "first".

Surprised no one has pointed out in all of these refinements that there were interchangeable lens mirrorless video cameras years ago, so whichever one of those was first to capture stills was also a first mirrorless.

But no, Leica and Epson were there first digital still camera makers (Epson modified an already existing rangefinder body). Now I am not making claims about the high or low quality of the images or sensors in those cameras.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

A vital performance question is AF speed. If that's unacceptable, nothing else matters.

7 upvotes

huh? Noise, ease of handling, buffer speed, lens quality, those things don't matter or are completely trumped by AF speed.

Ever hear of using manual focus? Or prefocusing, or just a purely manual focus camera?

4 upvotes

well, I hope it's as fast as Kirk Hammet's ripping, but if not, I can still enjoy "Nothing Else Matter."

2 upvotes

If AF speed is that imporatant to you you really should be looking at a semipro or better DSLR and quality, fast focusing lens.

1 upvote

The latest M43 cameras meet or even exceed DSLRs in focusing speed. I have a Canon 1D Mk 4 and a Panasonic GX1. They both focus (and take a shot) almost instantaneously. The DSLR only wins when it comes to focus tracking.

0 upvotes

SpikeT:

Really would that be all dslrs, like the Nikon D3s? Unlikely.

That pro Canon you cite doesn't have a great reputation for AF speed, nice, in a bad way, to see that weakness confirmed.

I believe Canon has fixed the AF problems with that latest 1D X.

0 upvotes

"The latest M43 cameras meet or even exceed DSLRs in focusing speed." - exactly which DSLRs from the current lineups? Even cheapest crappiest DSLR beats m4/3 any time with any light.

1 upvote

http://dpnow.com/forum2/showthread.php?p=65836

0 upvotes

Like other sites, this site should display what was updated, perhaps with a page called "Updates" in the review.

1 upvote

First Nikon, now Canon;

Guys why do you keep doing the mistake that already done by olympus and sony! Why we can´t your previous lenses on your mirrorless solutions?

1 upvote

The adapter makes it possible to use previous lenses, or would you prefer the Pentax approach? Basically you either obtain the advantages provided by a mirrorless solution which is to remove the mirror box allowing a more compact design, or go like Pentax ending up with a somewhat strange solution whose advantages are not immediately apparent.

7 upvotes

Considering Oympus's range of available m4/3 lenses I don't see how it is a mistake..

What is the point in having a tiny little mirrorless camera and putting huge DSLR size lenses on the front of it (with or without an adapter), crazy.. Try the Om-d with the 12/2 or 45/1.8 on it, that is how a portable mirrorless camera should be, high optical quality, high sensor quality and compact. Otherwise what is the point in not just sticking with a smaller DSLR??

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

Because it's not a (business) mistake to get folks to buy a new system that requires all-new equipment? Folks with a bag full of legacy lenses may be waiting for them to see the "error of their ways," but their target customers aren't.

Their goal isn't to get committed DSLR customers to adopt/switch, but to get an all-new crop of customers. This is aimed at the mass market, not the niche.

Consider the Nikon ads featuring Ashton Kutcher. Were they intended for dedicated enthusiasts? I'll bet Canon's TV campaign will feature a very attractive sports star showing that you don't have to be a camera geek to use this great new piece of gear and get fabulous photos.

People world-wide are taking more photos than ever before. How do you get them to trade-up from a $600 cell phone camera? With an even sexier, more expensive toy.

Comment edited 24 seconds after posting

5 upvotes

"Guys why do you keep doing the mistake that already done by olympus and sony! Why we can´t your previous lenses on your mirrorless solutions?" - you can use A-mount lenses on NEXes - with full, real DSLR-quality autofocus thanks to LA-EA2. That's something no other mirrorless system features, not even EOS-M with it's on-sensor PDAF.

So Sony avoided this mistake already :) Don't confuse people by spreading FUD ;)

2 upvotes

Guys who replies:

You are kinda right about big junky lenses which are 2 kilos 300mm macro lenses etc.

BUT, was not it the CANON who JUST announced a pancake lense? And you just cant use it on this new baby, unless you have an adaptor... At least Micro 4/3 lenses made by more than 3 producers nowadays that is the pionnering system on the market IMO, NEX is following... for now!

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Eh...kind of disappointed that DPR released its preview of the Canon before it was complete. I go to DPR for thoroughness, not because they're first on news reports.

How many people are gonna go through the whole preview again to see what they missed? Maybe more than I think, but it's kind of unnecessary just to be one of the first previews.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

7 upvotes

.
(dpr should add a delete button btw for comments that haven't been replied to)

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Did you see the preview when it was first posted? Were you disappointed by it?

4 upvotes

Will there be an update of the update of the preview?

0 upvotes

@SM7 - we pretty frequently add to our content over time. Most of the time we don't flag it up but since the EOS M is a major new product from one of the biggest camera retailers on the planet, and ushers in a new lens-mount, we thought people would appreciate the heads-up :)

2 upvotes

One has to weigh this up against those who would complain if DPR didn't publish a preview within minutes of a new piece of equipment's official release announcement.
DPR can't please everyone.
If I'm interested in the equipment based on the original preview then I'll read the update.
If the (shorter) original is of no interest then I skip the update.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

@Barney While I wasn't disappointed by the initial preview, it wasn't really anything new. For people that have long been interested in Canon's foray into the mirrorless market, details of the camera had already been known before official websites were allowed to publish their previews. So while the initial preview wasn't bad, I would have rather waited an extra day for DPR to finish the preview rather than having to read through it again and skim for new additions. People who were ever interested in it already knew about it, so an ASAP publication wasn't necessary.

However, as @Antony, I suppose there would be another side to this. I still think that the people complaining about a non-immediate release would be a smaller portion than the people who would've benefited from a slightly delayed, but finished preview.

But in the end, it's a rather small point...elaborating on what I said was probably unnecessary zzz...

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting

1 upvote

The camera does look nice. An articulated screen like the nex would have been fine.

0 upvotes

now I am getting it.. it is like a smart phone (touch screen), that has interchangeable lens..without the built in flash...

2 upvotes

It's only like a smartphone if you use the Vodafail network and therefore have no reception.

3 upvotes

It looks like a nice start and it would be fun to play with. I wouldn't buy one though, I'd want a viewfinder and better control layout. Being able to use DSLR lenses is nice but if I'm going to lug around L Series lenses I'd just use my DSLR.

For this style of camera I think Fuji have the overall design right with the X Series, they just need to sort out a few issues and it will be great. I'm looking for a digital replacement for my much loved Contax G series which was small, light and extremely well performed.

0 upvotes

"I'm looking for a digital replacement for my much loved Contax G series which was small, light and extremely well performed." Exactly. And Contax, and now Fuji, are the only ones I am aware of that have tried to advance viewer technology.

Comment edited 20 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

The question every post here should be answering is:

"Will you buy this?"

NO.

.

10 upvotes

Never.

5 upvotes

it will be a sucess no matter what you clowns say....

6 upvotes

The obvious answer to your question: It doesn't matter. Because, believe it or not, the camera marketing world does not revolve solely around DP Review readers. If someone has a thought about what they like or don't like and why, that might be worth mentioning. I just spoke to a guy at work who knows nothing about photography and he can hardly wait to get one.

4 upvotes

Agree with what others said in that no matter how pointless it is (or poor compared to the competition) it will be successful as it has a Canon badge on it and therefore must be what the 'PROs' use...

lol

4 upvotes

This guy at work... If he knows nothing about photography, why does he know about a camera that has just been announced and isn't available until October. Doubt he's seen any ads (have there even been any). Been talking it up, have you?

3 upvotes

Might've been a good, pocketable backup cam to pop into my bag, allowing the use of my current lenses, but at that price??? No chance.

0 upvotes

Too boxy looking.

1 upvote

does it matter when you show people your photos?will they ask how your camera looks like?no.

0 upvotes

Let's see if we can get another 1000+ disappointed posts on this thread too. ;-)

12 upvotes

Complainers just gotta complain: "Canon didn't build the camera that I want! Don't they know what *I want*? Bad company doesn't get it! They're going to trick people into buying it!"

1 upvote

I expected better to be honest from Canon.

0 upvotes

No autofocus test yet with EF lenses?

5 upvotes

The camera has been announced, but there are no production units yet. Actual release is slated for October.

3 upvotes

So what did you test?

0 upvotes

snowboarder: what about "a pre-production camera"? (it´s written in the text) ;-)

2 upvotes


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Updated: our Canon EOS M hands-on preview

Canon EOS M

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