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Pentax Ricoh: no decision made on future of Pentax compacts

Jul 17, 2012 at 11:40:39 GMT

CAMERA NEWS PENTAX-RICOH

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Pentax Ricoh Imaging has said no decision has yet been made about dropping the Pentax name from compact cameras. Japanese newspaper newspaper Asahi Shimbun reported, in a subscriber-only interview with the company's President Noboru Akahane, that the Pentax name would be used only for DSLRs. This was then repeated by Japanese blog Digicame.info, prompting much internet speculation about Pentax stopping compact camera production.

We approached the company and were told: 'The article is part of a wider interview where many issues were discussed. The product branding approach highlighted by the article is one option that was discussed but the final decision has not been made.'

However, it does seem likely that Pentax Ricoh will want to create some distinction between its product lines, rather than selling competing mass-market models under different brand names. The Ricoh brand is still fairly strong outside the US, so a move to use the Pentax name for interchangeable lens cameras may well make sense. However, the question of which model lines will continue does not appear to have been discussed, just which brand name would appear on which type of camera.

Comments

Total comments: 83

The article is part of a wider interview where many issues were discussed. <a href="http://www.thedreamclean.com">HOUSE CLEANING BROOKLYN</a>

0 upvotes

Pentax is either in the camera business or not. Making OEM, unbranded cameras is not making cameras - it's making tchotchke. It is time to bring some respect back to a brand that once actually made decent photographic gear - or pack up and go home. Minolta, Konica, Pentax...

1 upvote

Pentax is dead. For the next 5 years at least.

0 upvotes

Not dead. But they can become a wonderful OEM system camera manufacturers. Say Coca-Cola wants 10,000 Coca-Cola branded DSLRs, and Ricoh/Pentax makes them. They can outfit them in red and white too. All of a sudden, everyone can have their own branded camera, and Ricoh/Pentax delivers to the door. Would you care more if you had a Canon branded DSLR and their lenses, or a DSLR with your nameplate on it, dedicated to you and given as a 21st b'day present, together with laser engraved and specially dedicated FA31mm lens? Indeed, which one would you cherish more?

Comment edited 51 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

There's a better idea to Pentax / Ricoh name dispute:
1. They can manufacture all their cameras with no name badges on them,
2. Supply them like that to parties out there who actually know
- what to do with such cameras,
- how to market them well, and
- keep their marketing value too.

An updated K5 would be a wholly different camera if rebadged as a Canon 7D MKII. It would sell at a higher price, higher quantity, keep its resale value better and people would rave about it because it's Canon. And Canon saves tons of $$ in R&D.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting

1 upvote

You might not be far off. Maybe make a compact platform that can be controlled via. Android and sell that platform to any cell phone manufacturer that wants to put a really good camera on their phone. Imagine that. A slightly bigger / more sensitive sensor, better lens, maybe more controls. It would make pictures you post to Facebook a little better. Someone already has a platform out there, but I bet Pentax/Ricoh could make something a lot better.

0 upvotes

I agree with you, but I'm mostly laughing about the mental image your sentence "people would rave about [a canon 7D MKII]" gave me. LOL

0 upvotes

i think compact cameras would sell way better with a ricoh label on it.

ricoh is known for superior compacts, pentax is known for making nice cheap SLRs in the 70-80ies, and the 645 system

i think pentax should drop their dslr line which cant compete with anything other then sony or samsung and should concentrate on mft lenses, 645 bodies and lenses

and ricoh should make the compacts just as they do now, pentax had nothing to offer on the compact secor anyway, well besides the Q

so pentax 645, ricoh grd, ricoh gxr ..l f**k the rest :)

1 upvote

That certainly is an interesting theory that completely ignores market realities.

I agree that Ricoh makes some very nice compact cameras, and has a much stronger brand image in that niche, but to dismiss Pentax as "known for cheap SLRs in the 70-80s and for their 645 system" is really insane.

Pentax made some really great SLRs in the old days, and even their cheapest ones were very good and extremely well made.

Their most recent DSLRs have been at the top of the list among all makers, getting outstanding reviews and winning all sorts of awards. The only negatives seem to be "fewer lens options" and "no upgrade path to Full Frame."

The Pentax 645 is a great camera, but market share for medium format is so excruciatingly small that it would be foolish to build a mass market brand around a niche product. How many amateur DSLR buyers also own MF cameras? Or even plan to buy one? My guess is "zero."

1 upvote

No, I think this is a bad move - people often buy into a brand via their 1st camera - typically this is a compact camera. No entry point = less future DSLR sales. Pentax have done some excellent cameras in the past such as the Spotmatic, ES, ME Super, MX, LX as well as some interesting compacts such as the Auto 110. I simply feel (sadly) that Pentax need an injection of fresh thinking and some decent marketing - their latest fresh items aren't too hot and their marketing ?? Do they do marketing? Please Pentax contact me I'd be happy to help you out with a few suggestions!

PS - why no FF Pentax ? Simply buy the tech in (like Nikon have from Sony) there are millions of potential sales from the ranks of Pentax, Ricoh, Chinon etc etc users out there.

2 upvotes

why ff with a pentax ?? for what? ^^

they dont even offer a decent dx-dslr ^^

dont let pentax ruin ricohs reputation !!

0 upvotes

(Why do I fear I am responding to an unreasonable Nikon fanboy? Any way ...) What do you mean they don't offer a decent cropped sensor DSLR? Even DPReview stated in their review of the K-r that it was "one of the best APS-C DSLRs currently on the market". Whatever. (Troll.)

1 upvote

That was the K-5 review. ^ Sorry.

1 upvote

I have both a D7000 and a K5. Well, until I can get rid of the D7000, at least.

Hands down (and in-hands) the better camera is the K5.

0 upvotes

I've got a D800E and a K-5. The K-5 is a little gem.

0 upvotes

I would suggest that that this is a very smart move. Pentax would then only become synonymous with producing (good) DSLR cameras and Ricoh for the compacts. Simple and effective.

0 upvotes

Just hurry up and make a full frame K-Mount body.
And then make a full frame GXR module that takes K-Mount lenses.
And then start making more full frame K-Mount lenses. Even if they are the old manual focus designs.
This is what people want, and Pentax/Ricoh can easily shoehorn themselves between Canon and Nikon.

0 upvotes

That would be a shame. I browsed through the Ricoh compact line and with the new team I'm sure they could come up with some really interesting (and fun) compacts! Then again, maybe make a cost reduced version of the Pentax Q and send it into the compact market head on. That would be cool!

Ok. Don't have the pop-up flash, just have it stationary. Keep the hot-shoe. (Ok. Maybe lose it, but then have a USB plug-in that you can buy that gives it back to you. [grin].) Make it easy to buy into it, and then when I have some money I can get the rest of the lenses. That . . . would be cool!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

I agree that Pentax has released some rather underwhelming compacts - models they don't even seem to believe in themselves. But the WG models have really struck a chord with buyers, and rightfully so, I think. I'm not sure Pentax should give up on their branding of these models, especially since innovation is one of the things Pentax tries to (and often does) stand for.

Mundane P&S JPG models do little to help the brand, but cameras like the WG series definitely need to stick around, and probably should retain the Pentax brand as well. I imagine this model is profitable, but even if it's not, it bolsters their image and can create brand loyalty.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

2 upvotes

Had some good cameras in the earlier days of digital when OEMs tried harder. The Optio 450, 550, 555 are excellent cameras.

1 upvote

So the news are there are no news

0 upvotes

Pentax compacts have not been particularly successful at any point in the digital era. Ricoh not only has a more trusted name in compact camera design, but has kept pace with the market in that segment better than Pentax has in the last 5 years. The writing was on the wall when Ricoh and Pentax merged; the value of the Pentax brand was NEVER in compact cameras, it was in the K-mount and the brand name. Keeping Pentax associated with it's bread and butter (DSLR) and chopping off the excess fat (sub-par compacts) is a no-brainer. If you don't know Ricoh, in the United States, you can't be over 25 - Ricoh was making K-mount DSLR's for years (they are still everywhere) and produced many many K-mount lenses prior to the digital era. Pentax clearly has the bigger name in DSLR technology, but there is no advantage to keeping Pentax-branded compacts.

0 upvotes

As a geezer I remember Ricoh in N. America. Mostly as cheap plastic clones of Pentax. KR-5 anyone? Had one, and the KR-10, mostly found in Sears, Kmart etc. They were flimsy compared to even my Pentax ME-Super, let alone my LX. Sorry but ricoh was nothing special then.

1 upvote

Yet I'm still using their Rikenon lenses with my K-5; other than 20th-century flare at times, they really do nice work.

0 upvotes

Who said they were 'something special' then? If you are going to respond to something I write here; at least make it accurate.

0 upvotes

As a geezer of 38, I've only known Ricoh as a maker of copiers. I didn't even know they made cameras at all until a few months ago, and then only from seeing reviews here. Never known anyone who owned one, never seen a picture online tagged as being taken by one. Plenty of Pentaxes in both categories. I don't know about outside the US, but at least here it seems like a bad move even in compacts. Pentax is just a better known name.

1 upvote

I've always been pleased with Pentax's point and shoots. My wife has a WS80 which turns out good pictures for such a small thing and has the advantage of being water and dust proof which ideal for the beaches and kids in Devon. My point and shoot was their very advanced 750Z which they failed to follow up. It still takes superb pictures. Had they pursued this, I think they'd have had a Canon G series competitor on their hands and that seems to sell well enough. I think it's right to sell one brand and not the other though in the right market segment, though I feel the Pentax brand is stronger than Ricoh in the UK.

0 upvotes

The Ricoh name has no brand recognition for cameras in the United States. I could see making one camera model and using the Ricoh name in some parts of the world and Pentax in others. But carrying on development of two distinct competing model lines under one roof seems rather foolish.

1 upvote

The WG-1 has been my swimming pool cam for the past two seasons, and I've gotten some great shots with it. Since I'm floating around in the pool at the time and dunking the camera on a regular basis to get underwater shots, I certainly wouldn't trust even my K-5 to pass the pool test for waterproofing, and yet the WG-1 keeps right on working, shot after shot. I've tried other waterproof cameras, but they just aren't as versatile. So I for one would be sorry to see the line disappear.

0 upvotes

I think that lumping all Pentax compacts together and calling them "rubbish" is a difficult thing to do. I have the S4i and S5i and these tiny digicams have given me great results over many years. Of course their use is limited, but I have done lovely 18x24 blowups from their sparse megapixels. The lenses hold up. VRR

1 upvote

good riddance to bad rubbish, from personal experience, the Pentax p/s are all junk.

0 upvotes

So you tried the ALL ?

1 upvote

9 page Review of nikon coolpix S9300, nikon coolpix P510,nikon coolpix P310 in July alone but no review for Ricoh GRD IV, which seriouscompacts.com compares favourably with the Fuji X10, Olympus XZ-1,

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/f41/ricoh-gr-digital-iv-review-field-report-6243/

Photographyblog says is Highly Recommended.

Review also available at DC camera resource.
HMMM.

7 upvotes

I believe you already posted this mini-rant in this thread.

Richard Butler also already explained: "we've been rather overwhelmed by large, complex cameras that mean we may not find time to review the GRD IV."

I'd also point out that DPReview's testing labs are now located in the United States, and Ricoh doesn't sell cameras in the United States. It's an invisible brand here; no marketing, no advertising, and almost no support structure (just a contract repair facility). Yes, if you know to look for them, you can find online sellers.

0 upvotes

No ranting that I could see.
Two of the three cameras I mentioned were point and shoots, the other a bridge camera.
None of which could be said to be large and complex.
The Digital Camera Resource Page which this site is using as a basis for some of it's reviews has a review as mentioned in my previous post.
R Butler says as you quote "we may not have time to review the GRDIV". This means that they have access to the camera but not the time.
I was merely questioning the fact that a camera series which has a rich legacy for enthusiasts and that elsewhere has been compared with the X10 and XZ-1 deserves to be reviewed over the ones I mentioned.
Have two nikon reviews and one Ricoh. Where's the problem.
As another poster mentioned the GRD IV review I gave references to other sites where it was available.
Is that ranting or being helpful?

2 upvotes

GRDIV is hardly anything new but a refreshed revision of the GRDIII which could be called GRD 3.5
The major improvements are. sensor-shift Image stabilisation and the return of Phase Detection AF. The last one which the original GRDI had but which was removed with GRDII and left it with sluggish AF performance compared to GRDI. The PD AF should not have been remove in the first place so that's hardly anything 'new' but trying to make up for a unneeded mistake.
Still the GRDIV have same lens as GRDIII so not anything new there. Also I don't like the NR in GRDIV which can be set to off. The problem is just that it is definitely not the same as real NR Off. And it has been like that since the GRDII...
But I hope that we'll see a review of the GRD V whenever it becomes available. But there is some time until then.

0 upvotes

It's a super niche camera. 28mm prime lens on a compact? And it's not even any faster than those other cameras in it's price range that have zooms. It would be last on my list to review, too, considering the small amount of interest that camera generates.

0 upvotes

"hardly anything new"
Image Stabilisation added, better AF, 3 inch screen with 1,230,000 pixels (EVF optional) and improved low light image quaity, improved processor

GRD III already had f1.9 lens, shot RAW, magnesium body,
fantastic UI.

The only problem is it's not got Panasonic written on it.

0 upvotes

Review of Pentax K30 at Pentaxforums.com

5 upvotes

pentaxforums.com/news/the-pentax-k-30-review.html#more

2 upvotes

With so many people using camera phones as their carry-along camera, it would make sense for some retrenchment in compacts. There are just so many brands/lines, many without that much to distinguish them. Certain forms (superzooms; the economy point and shoot) look like they came off the same assembly line. Instead, let the OEMs concentrate on lines that offer something special: the weather-resistant cameras; the enthusiast compacts; something with a larger sensor. How about something new?

2 upvotes

The only line of Pentax compacts that has ever caught anyone's attention is the waterproof Optio line, which kind of fits well with their series of weather sealed DSLRs. If dropping their compact line means more resources can be allocated towards creating my full frame LX-D, then I'm all for it. Mmmmm, waist-level finder...

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

That such a report creates a 'hoo-hah' speaks volumes for consumers, unfortunately.

The truth is there is a company which, amongst other things, makes cameras of various kinds. I'm certain it will continue to make many models. What name they choose to print on the front has absolutely no effect on the internals whatsoever.

That people seem to think otherwise says to me that too many are interested, not in the actual product and how well it does its job, but rather whether it has the right name on the front.

A sad indictment of our society :(

2 upvotes

Lets face it... the days of the cheap compact camera may be over, being replaced by more competent camera phones. This just isn't a growth market anymore.

Since many snapshooters are satisfied with camera phone results, compact cameras need to move to the high end to find a niche. And even when they do, they will face stiff competition from high end MILC cameras at the low end of the price scale. (Think... Olympus EPM1, which currently sells for less than a Canon S100).

One thing we know for sure is that Pentax has had mixed results. Producing some very nice and very innovative DSLRs and some very ordinary compact cameras.

3 upvotes

I think you are right. My daughter was telling how great her pictures from her new phone were. After she sent some to me and I opened them on the computer, they were pretty awful in terms of quality. But they were more than good enough for her and all her teenage friends. I don't think they know or care what they are missing.

There is still a market for compacts, but it's shrinking.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

I recently got a waterproof compact, the only reason i got it was because it was waterproof.

http://www.mobiledia.com/news/143098.html

Phone tech is driving innovation at this lower end of the scale. Soon phones will be waterproof - check the link - instead of building sealing like my camera they coat the electronics internally.

Things are going to change for compacts! I think we will see them mostly die out, the remaining compacts will be niche

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

I don't think this means that Pentax would dump all their compacts, just that they would rebrand their best models as Ricohs and dump all their mundane ones.

And from a marketing point of view, this could be a very good idea because it strengthens the value of both brands. This isn't very much different that how some companies offer two lines... like Toyota and Lexus, or Rolex and Tudor.

I also think Olympus would be well served to dump their mundane compacts and keep the few good ones. And their Board seems to agree.

2 upvotes

Very good said. Pentax is a such decent brand with its great product and wide range of products as well. I also respect this decision.

They don´t dump their product line as Olympus made with PEN series boom (7 cameras came in 4 years, even less.. with almost exact features !!) All pentax need a bit more refindment, concentration and patience.

0 upvotes

Pentax oozes nostalgia. Your dad / uncle / schoolteacher / you as your first camera used to have a Pentax.

Ricoh makes me think of a pallet with cheap copiers at the local office supply store.

0 upvotes

Money made on those "cheap copiers" probably subsidizes losses on those admired copiers. Canon too makes more money on copiers and printers than cameras. Margins on cameras have been killed by over-competition and the advent of better phone cameras.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

You must be ignorant concerning the compacts. Ricoh makes one of the finest pocketable compact GRD IV (1.9/28mm, superfast hybrid AF, fantastic photographer friendly interface), not talking about APS-C size GXR. I do hope Pentax will concentrate their effords on semiprof and prof DSLR (FF coming?) and leave to icoh what they do best.

3 upvotes

Ricoh makes same of the finest copiers made

1 upvote

It must be my poor ability to express myself in englisch. I wanted to express what the brands make me think off.

Ricoh just sounds too much like a famous brand of freeze-dried soup over here. And their cameras may be excellent, none of the local internet stores I frequent stock them.

0 upvotes

"Speculation about Pentax stopping compact camera production."

Who says that Pentax wil stop production? It could just as well be the case that Pentax keeps making compact camera's just as they've always done, just replacing "Pentax" with "Ricoh".

1 upvote

Ricoh doesn't have much of a name in European and US consumer markets. So that would be a bad decision. They should just brand the same camera's Ricoh in Asia and Pentax in USA/Europe.

0 upvotes

The new Pentax/Ricih PR team is setting new standards for what not to do. There is not much worse in the business world that "we are canceling product line X" followed by "we are still discussing if we might cancel product line X." Guess what guys, in the minds of buyers, its already canceled so forget about the decision. No one wants to be stuck buying something that is no longer going to be supported.

3 upvotes

Who is buying Pentax point and shoots anyway?

0 upvotes

Me for one. I just bought a WG-2 for my 15 year old son to take on a Scouting trip. Water proof, drop proof, crush proof, freeze proof. Just about Boy Proof!

Half my team in Afghanistan bought Pentax WG series cameras. If your life is outdoors, Pentax is the way to go.

3 upvotes

I 100% agree with that statement: "if your life is outdoors, Pentax is the way to go."

Here's my take on Pentax Weather Sealing in Afghanistan...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo61t5fH6Qw&feature=player_embedded

5 upvotes

Hele2 - Awesome!!! I dragged my K200 all across Afghanistan and cleaned the sensor exactly twice!! With 4 months left I actually gave my rocket blaster to a friend who got a Nikon D3000 and couldnt keep dust off his sensor for more than a week.

Love you stuff.

Be safe brother!

0 upvotes

Ricoh should drop the consumer oriented compacts and seriously works on their high-end compact. Pentax Q should be part of Ricoh brands. Pentax brand only develop DSLR and simple compacts for the mass markets.

4 upvotes

Add a phone and a bigger screen, trump the other compacts.

2 upvotes

Let them dump the compacts & concentrate on introductio of a wide variety of reasonably priced lenses for Q system. That win them minds&hearts.

0 upvotes

I am not that sure about the Q system. Most of the reactions are "a step along", "expensive toy" etc., it´s not taken too seriously. The K-01 is a much stronger player, with its size being the major disadvantage.
However I also think it would be no pitty if they terminated compacts having Pentax name. Concentrating on DSLR (and CSC) is the future (more DSLR lines, a full frame...).

1 upvote

It's not a question of "concentrating." It's a matter of exiting a field that makes no money. It's not clear whether a DSLR-only business would be profitable, either, unless it caters "expensive toys" to a niche of the rich. A rosewood version of the Q might be a nice $25k gift to bestow on some tycoon. It would be a nice conversation piece on the executive suite coffee table.

1 upvote

The Pentax Q system is actually pretty nice, for what it is.

But it is priced way too high. But it really is the successor to the Pentax 110 SLR of the past, which also had a very limited lens selection, but it failed in the market due to poor image quality associated with 110 film.

This may not happen to the Q, since even small sensors can get reasonably good results today, while the 110 SLR was severely limited by the film.

3 upvotes

Cy Cheze seems to really be aware of the realities of the camera market which is an entirely different world from what "fans" seem to think. I would add that Asian manufacturers have a long tradition of sub-contracting so when you see a lens with your favorite brand name (so it must be good) it's entirely possible it was made by a different company. With so much stuff coming from China and elsewhere you'd think this would have occured to consumers but I don't think it has.

0 upvotes

Pentax comes across as technical and innovative.

Ricoh sounds and feels like a breakfast cereal or chocolate malt drink.

The company should diversify into food products and leave the Pentax marque alone...

3 upvotes

So long as you ignore the photographer-targeted GRD series, which have one of the best user-interfaces available on any compact cameras.

6 upvotes

Even their CX series have a more thoughtful user interface and more controls than other cameras in their class.

2 upvotes

Of which GRD IV we had a nice preview on Sep 2011 but not a hint eversince... Maybe this year?

0 upvotes

Sadly it's unlikely - we've been rather overwhelmed by large, complex cameras that mean we may not find time to review the GRD IV.

1 upvote

I always felt that Sony blundered by naming their DSLR line "Sony" rather than "Minolta" after the acquisition. They passed up a golden opportunity to cash in on a long history and tradition of the Minolta brand.

Of course, history and tradition don't mean very much to buyers under 30. But I do know that Pentax has a great brand image in photography, and Ricoh is primarily known for copiers.

3 upvotes

It may be known for copiers in the US, but I know a fair number of people with Capilo Rs, GRDs or CXs in Europe.

0 upvotes

@ Marty4650,
I abosolutely agree with with you. Sony Killing off the Minolta name was a blunder of Biblical proportions.

1 upvote

I agree Sony should have kept the Minolta name but there is no way Sony would do that, their other products had a large audience that recognized their name and those of them that entered the camera market would probably be attracted to Sony rather than brands they weren't familiar with.
I don't see how making P&S would be negative for Pentax, it doesn't seem to bother Canon & Nikon.

0 upvotes

A lot of comments are getting to the idea that Pentax needs a broader DSLR base. The cameras are good, but you need more than 1 or 2 current models.

1 upvote

@ Chris and photoholiko....

I probably should tell you that I am 63 years old, and soon to be 64. I still cherish my Minolta XD/11, so in my mind the word "Minolta" means "innovative and well made cameras."

For me at least, Sony meant "pretty good color televisions", (The Trinitron), and the poorly marketed Beta videotape format.

Younger buyers may have much more of a connection with Sony, because it is the brand that gave them Walkmans, the Compact Disc, the PlayStation, and the Blu-Ray Disc.

One thing for certain is that us older buyers are becoming less and less of the market, so perhaps Sony made the right decision. Time will tell.

2 upvotes

At least Sony had the sense to innovate. More than you could say for HP.

HP should have acquired a revered camera brand, and made better cameras. Would have made a lot more sense than acquiring Compaq.

0 upvotes

9 page Review of nikon coolpix S9300, nikon coolpix P510,nikon coolpix P310 in July alone but no review for Ricoh IV, which seriouscompacts.com compares favourably with the Fuji X10, Olympus XZ-1,

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/f41/ricoh-gr-digital-iv-review-field-report-6243/

Photographyblog says is Highly Recommended.

Review also available at DC camera resource.
HMMM.

1 upvote

There may be too much roughage in your diet. But after all, what really matters is how something sounds, not what the product actually does or doesn't do. I hope your camera lab tests aren't based too much on your impression of the Pentax "marque".

0 upvotes

Marty4650,

To us, the word Sony also reminds us of rootkits, DRM, DMCA, poor security (PSN network), anti-customerism, suing of PS emulator makers, proprietary flash memory designed to lock customers in (memory sticks) and vastly overrated, highly ordinary LCD TVs (Bravia). It's too bad that their Walkman and Trinitron days are well over.

0 upvotes

That's so true... they even invented their own proprietary hot shoe....

0 upvotes

Total comments: 83


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