Just Posted: Canon Rebel T4i / EOS 650D preview with real-world samples: Digital Photography Review

Sorry I forgot to ask which other camera would you advice to a beginner ?

1 upvote

Hello,

do you think that this camera is a good choice for a first dslr ?

I will make photos and video for my online shop.

thanks.

1 upvote

For those of you interested in the HDR function. I put an example on flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peregrin71/7478250626/

0 upvotes

Reading this thread makes me want to gag and puke. Is there any intelligent life in here? Too much garbage here to weed through to find anything useful at all.

0 upvotes

Its pretty ridiculous that this is the first DSLR with a touchscreen. Why does it take DSLR's so many years to catch up with crappy point and shoot cameras when it comes to usability? They are made by the same companies and own the same patents, a capacitive screen is not much more expensive than a normal one at these sizes.

Being able to set the exposure by tapping the screen would be so convenient, their current method of setting a custom location by using the arrow keys is a joke. Not to mention making manual mode a million times easier instead of futzing around with the stupid Q button, I dont know what they were thinking with that button.

My only complaint with DSLR's is navigating the UI, a touchscreen should have solved those issues YEARS ago. I think this is as big as Live View, something that should have happened WAY sooner and will have a major impact on usability.

0 upvotes

The simple fact is that mobile phone cameras will/ are taking over the world (slowly) whilst I love my cameras (Canon/Nikon) I know that one day they'll all be as DEAD as my film cameras.
Example - attended an event recently, my son took a few shots with his iPhone 4S (or whatever its called) loaded to iCloud, images appeared on his 42 inch Panasonic Plasma set by the time we travelled home - and weren't bad. Not as good as my gear but so fast, so easy. This is what killed of the LP & CD - it WILL happen to standard cameras...only a matter of time. Sadly.

0 upvotes

I'm not so sure about that. The issue here is DoF, and the laws of physics. If there's one easily identifable feature of images produced by a DSLR or large sensor camera, it's shallow DoF. I think shallow DoF is overrated, mind you, but people are going to continue trying to achieve that look forever.

You're never going to get shallow DoF from an iPhone, unless some newfangled trick is found to somehow stuff alot more light into a sensor of sensible size. Perhaps software added shallow DoF could work somehow, but I don't see it happening convincingly within our lifetimes.

0 upvotes

It seems that the "new" features are those that they intentionally kept off the 600D, so they could release an "upgrade". Dirty marketing.

1 upvote

Dear S&M7,

Prove it. Yes, prove to all of us that Canon wasn't able to develop any new tech the past YEAR!

1 upvote

@SM7,

You rock! Been tellin' my peeps da same thing. Oh, and Black Ops SHOULD have been Black Ops 2, but they, like, held it back, dude, so we'd, like, buy ANOTHER game, dude. Dirty, dirty, marketing.

Gotta go, my Mom's calling me...

4 upvotes

There is no reason that things such as stereo mic and in-video focus were not included in the 550D, let alone the 600D. And thanks for your constructive replies, you can now return to 4chan.

1 upvote

Agreed.

This is the Canon we now recognized as...they simply delay serious upgrading for as long as possible.

However they will keep selling their products and make big money still, i'm afraid...and only us, the ones who can see through their trick, wont fall prey to a pointless purchase or upgrade.

What to do?? It was quite a bitter pill for me to swallow when i first realized how come my 550D dont have this and dont have that...but now i choose to keep learning to appreciate what i have instead of getting so agitated by Canon's way of doing business (i used to get really upset by this fact, seriously)

After all, the 550D is quite a powerful tool (and toy too!) by itself. With Magic Lantern around, it makes owning and using one even more fun and meaningful.

Yeah, may u and all rebel owners always enjoy whatever version of the 18MP in hand. :-)

0 upvotes

I worked in the software business and was a mechanical designer. The first time I was introduced to the marketing concept of sequentially adding features to keep you buying was in 1977. This has been going on for a long time and everybody does it.

As strange as this is going to seem, there is a good side to it and that is if you waited to get all the features you wanted you would never get a product. Nothing would ever get released to the public. It is called "feature creep" and is the bane of any product development. I was a software development manager and worked with a marketing guy who wanted the world in the first release of a product. I said sure we can do that but it is going to take the next generation to complete it.

By then most of what was developed would be obsolete. In the mean time the potential customer is waiting for a product to make their lives more productive. I hope they are not holding their breath.

0 upvotes

Will anyone here know if I can put a protective glass screen on the T4i Touch Screen LCD? My concern is that the protective glass 'may' hinder the operation of the touch screen.
I called Canon customer service, and the tech seems to believe that it will work, even though he has not seen this new model yet. The reason he said is that he put a protective glass on his Apple iPhone with touch screen, and the touch screen still worked.
Any input on this important matter will be appreciated by all new T4i buyers.
Thank you.

Comment edited 38 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

To tell you the truth all DSLR in video mode is a mirrorless camera so is meaningless to say that Canon does not have a mirrorless camera!!! DSLR with video capability is an hybrid camera with or without mirror.

0 upvotes

I thought I just posted a question, but now it has disappeared. Sorry if this is a duplicate, but can someone explain the HDR "backlight" feature to me? I understand HDR, just not the backlight.

0 upvotes

Lemme try. Backlight HDR is a specific type of HDR that counters a heavily backlit scene, like when the Sun is behind your subject. Simply: it enables you to take correctly exposed images when the background is much brighter than the subject.

Edit: a camera with a high FPS or a tripod is usually required for optimum results.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Can anybody explain the HDR backlight feature to me? I know what HDR is, just not how "backlight" relates.

0 upvotes

Hmm....I'm actually relieved that they are keeping the Rebel series as "entry" level (wait, hear me out!). No one likes to save up hard earned money for something they've always wanted, only to find out the newer versions of lesser line products "borrowed" or uses the same "features" of what the higher products had a few years ago. This is quite apparent with phones and other smaller devices.

When I saw the 18MP that my 7D had, I was worried they would have a similar (if not the same) 19 AF points. Glad to see it's still 9-points (although for this price, bumping it to, let's say, 12-points would be justified). I worked really hard to get my 7D (upgraded from a modest Rebel XT (7-point AF), and would cry if some spooty Rebel out-spec'd it already. I guess that won't come till next year with the Rebel 5i, or 70D.

0 upvotes

According to Canon Rumors, Photokina, coming this September, will be big for Canon as four new cameras will be introduced between now and then (there). Will a 70D be among them?

0 upvotes

Or the replacement for the 7D!!!

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Holy cow Canon Singapore are fast. The 650D and 40/2.8 are on sale already!

0 upvotes

Just another Rebel. If it was $600 it could have been compared to a Nikon D5100 or Sony Nex-5n, but at $1200 a D700 would crush it. Just another marketing stunt that failed.

0 upvotes

This sounds like a marketing and sales forum for new equipment. What is the next life cycle in your plans: Six months life spans of cameras?

When do we start to demand real equipment: lasting and not bug fixing on plastics housings with prior sensor embedded systems?
It is our money we might waste in the gimmicks like those Nikons, Canons, OM-Ds of today. Technology to buy self-proclaimed break-throughs. But those Canons-Look-Alikes are not real innovations. Just to grab our$$$ for industry. We live in oversatured markets and desires.

0 upvotes

This place sounds like a kindergarten with a lot of pouting and crying every time Canon gets a positive review for anything. Still,, when you put 50 kids with Down Syndrome in a room,,, there's gonna be a lot of hugging.

2 upvotes

Today I took pictures with a Ricoh XRX-X. This is a film camera from 30 years ago. No touch panel and ISO confusion. But I also use Nikon, Canon and Olympus on digital at contemporary levels. They are practical but make not better images (to fix people).

0 upvotes

För tweaker, Swissboy,

Jag fick en idé: vem om dig öppna din egen jävla kameran företaget och utarbeta de saker du tiken om så mycket, va? Vad sägs om dem äpplen? Jag menar, vad är ditt syfte här? ALLT DU GÖR DET tik och klaga. Gå och ta dina meds - Nikon Fanboy!

0 upvotes

Fun

0 upvotes

While the new touch screen LCD is likely to be the headline grabbing feature amongst this camera's intended audience, I'm really more intrigued with the new hybrid sensor tech and the STM lenses. Looks like I may finally have an excuse to upgrade to the next generation 60D or 7D when they become available. Thanks Canon for giving us smarter pixels instead of just more pixels.

2 upvotes

hi iso samples look incredible :-)

0 upvotes

Why there are always so many Nikon fanatics vomiting nonsense around a new Canon product launch? I don't see this phenomenon on Nikon's announcements. That's a clear evicende you are unsatisfied with the black and yellow strap on your neck.

If you are so green with envy, buy one Canon, shut up, and stop behaving as imbecile.

5 upvotes

Then you don't look very hard. When the D800 was announced there were an incredible amount of canon folks dissin it. Still are.

0 upvotes

I'd love to try one out with my brand new today 15-85 lens - sorry of course with new STM tech ALL of my lenses are now out of date!

0 upvotes

Just another me too product. Who needs this? And look at the ergonomics. I do not want this camera for my expressions. Fall asleep with such a kind of photographic equipment. Nikon +endless+MP - Canon boring - waiting for the real thing. Maybe just "dynamic true range..."

0 upvotes

Blinka lilla stjärna, Hur jag undrar vad du är. Upp över världen så högt, Som en diamant i skyn. När flammande - få fan oughta här Nikon Fanboy!

0 upvotes

It's a tool-- and a fine tool at that. A tool is only as boring as you make it and only as exciting as you make it. Maybe you're just a boring photographer? In the hands of a better, more skilled, more expressive photographer, this equipment is definitely not going to be boring and isn't going to make anyone "fall asleep." But in your hands, yeah, you'll probably put people to sleep. Haha!

If you lack creativity and vision, a Leica rangefinder can also be considered to be pretty boring too. And Leica rangefinders have almost non-existent ergonomics. But lots of great photos are made with Leica rangefinders. It all depends on the photographer behind the camera.

0 upvotes

Still waiting 1080p with 60fps

1 upvote

Still waiting for Nikon to do this 5 years later and claim they invented it.

0 upvotes

That is about the only missing spec that disappointed me.

0 upvotes

I'm waiting for sharp and detailed 1080p, as from Panasonic.

1 upvote

As BOTH a Canon & Nikon owner it is disappointing that despite many improvements neither of 'my' two brands are able to match the best (for video) that Panasonic has been able to offer for a while now. 5d Mk4 & D800 Mk 2 anyone?

1 upvote

Dear Sad Sack,

What the hell are you talking about? You own both Canon AND Nikon and mention two future iterations sure to be in the $4,000.00 range and you can't just buy a Panasonic and spare us this?

0 upvotes

Dear Friend

I think you misunderstand, my point is/was that Panasonic is the leading 4 x 3 video brand and video images from a GH2 are still better than those from ANY Canon or Nikon DSLR to date. Perhaps Canon and Nikon should invite the Panasonic engineers around for a chat and to pick up a few pointers?

Perhaps my next camera will be a Panasonic ? Its a route that many ex Canon & Nikon owners have taken (as well as buying Fuji/ Sony/ Olympus) the brand giants should not take us all for granted !

Happy vids

0 upvotes

Dear Why are you Sad?,

The GH2 video IS NOT BETTER. You need to watch YouTube vids in Full HD, like this one:

"Panasonic GH2 Moire/Aliasing Issue--Defective Sensor?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89Z-Fnevdk

The moire out of the Panasonic is just hideous. And no, this camera is NOT defective.

0 upvotes

Is there an option where i can disable the verbal waste (i.e. 90% of the comments) that clutters all articles these days?

8 upvotes

Or more specifically for me... why do the comments have to be loaded on EVERY page of reviews. The scroll bar is tiny on my browser because of this.

1 upvote

I am a Nikon guy but have same amount of respect for Canon gear. If I remember correctly having read sometime back that Canon and Nikon together have about 75% of the pro market to their credit. Most cameras they make for amateurs has technology which trickles down from the flagships. In addition to that these two companies launch their cameras based on feedback from real photographers (not armchair photographers) that makes these cameras so user friendly.

This rebel T4i will sell truckloads as has always been the case in the past with this series, negative comments from some on this thread leads me to believe that they read more than actually practice photography.

I would not be surprised if the pictures from T4i make it to the top in one of the challenges in very near future, beating all others, even better gear.

9 upvotes

The same typical blurry garbage year after year. No effort at all made to improve resolution, and I'm not talking about megapixels.

But I guess for most people today so long as you can shoot at iso 12800 all is well.

0 upvotes

Did you turn AF on?

9 upvotes

Check your eyesight.

0 upvotes

Blurry garbage. Hilarious. This blurry photo was made with a 7 year old Canon 350D piece of garbage. I can't wait to get my hands on the latest piece of garbage to see what it can do. ;-)

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3165484114/photos/1056599/img_5004

1 upvote

Few questions-
The pricing of 650D is same as 60D, is the pricing worth the features on offer?
Is it the same sensor as the other 18MP models from Canon or a totally new sensor with better IQ?
How is the high ISO performance of this camera? The past rebel models have been a big letdown compared to their Nikon counterparts in low light conditions, does this show an improvement on that front? The sample gallery 12800 ISO image looks CLEAN, waiting for the detailed comparison.

0 upvotes

Any Canon was much better compared to Nikon in terms of:
1.true colors
2 Perfect AutoISO in Canon, poor in Nikon, until D800

1 upvote

Steve Davey, Bryan Peterson, Joe McNally and lots of others have been producing great pictures with almost 'antique' equipment. Pictures they show in recent books so the're are still among the best they can show.

Lots of comments (not only here but always at DPR) are total crap. If 'yours is better' show me better pictures. If you can't get out there and learn some skills and stop making a fool of yourself.

9 upvotes

Canon needs to do something about their sensor technology, and quick.
5D3 has less DR than my Sony Nex 5, and that's not even comparing it to the newest generation.

4 upvotes

at high ISOs Canon tech isn't bad, it's the low ISO performance that they have to improve
PS nex 5 has better DR only up to 400 ISO, above that it's more than stop worse

7 upvotes

DR means SOOOO much on a 4x6 Walmart print.

0 upvotes

I just don't get it how a silly touch screen is going to make any of my photos better in any way.

0 upvotes

There are plenty of things that are added to cameras that impact usability but have nothing to do with making "any of my photos better". For example, why increase the size and resolution of the rear LCD if it doesn't "make any of my photos better"?

3 upvotes

It's all marketing. Since this is aimed at more entry level photographers, not everyone is going to understand what makes a camera optically superior. But if they're deciding between Camera X with no touchscreen and Camera Y with a touchscreen, they might go for Camera Y because "Well, it has a touchscreen and that one doesn't!" Canon wants to sell their products and make a profit, the addition of a "cool" feature (especially one as ubiquitous as this is these days between smart phones, tablets etc.) will absolutely help them do that.

1 upvote

Dear globe...huh?

Hello--speed? SPEED!

How does A/F make your photos any better? It doesn't. IT HELPS YOU GET THEM.

You can't correct a lost moment in time.

A touch screen, silly? SILLY? It's only the MOST common user interface for hand-held devices in the WORLD.

0 upvotes

Touchscreen is just what should be done. I guess in a few years most DSLR will have touchscreen. It is just so easy to use (providing it is well implemented, but I guess camera manufacturers have higher quality standards than many smartphone makers:)).

High ISO performance seems good compared to my old 400D and this is good news since Canon sensors are not the best.

On the other hand I have the feeling that Canon is somewhat lagging in comparison to innovations other manufacturers are carrying on. Entry level DSLR will probably give the way to compacts in a few years. I personaly do not care that much of video making.

I will just wait some years before buying a new camera. And then I will seriously consider selling my few Canon lens to switch brand.

1 upvote

The touch screen on my old Sony DV camcorder is great. I worried it would be too small but it is great. I think it'll be handy for shooting videos but when shooting pictures of course the dedicated controls need to be used if you're using the OVF. Well, I'd sometimes use the LCD for tripod shooting (stills).

0 upvotes

who has a 550D they may keep quiet

0 upvotes

I've searched a little and can't find what size the photo detectors in the sensor in this cam are. Anyone have any idea? Thanks.

0 upvotes

From Canon USA website, T4i specifications
Pixel Unit - 4.3 µm square
I hope this is what you are looking for.

1 upvote

Thanks, Jim. Much obliged.

0 upvotes

Battery as low as 180 shots per charge in live view?

Gosh that bad ... Even A37 with tiny battery has over 500 per charge

0 upvotes

but A37 has lower resolution screen with no touch.....

0 upvotes

so? 650d still has ridiculous battery time in live view.

0 upvotes

Honestly, if battery life is the best cheap shot you can make, then you really need to just get out a bit more (with whatever camera you choose). Battery life is a problem that was solved for every camera years ago by getting a spare, in case you hadn't heard.

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting

4 upvotes

yes, i suppose when shooting self portraits in front of a mirror to post them on fb, low battery life in live view mode is a concern.

man, are being serious? who shoots in live view mode with a dslr? live view is only meant to aid difficult situations such as shooting extremely low to the ground. dslrs are what they are for a reason.

6 upvotes

I shoot live with my DSLR. In fact I bought it ( sony A500 ) because it did have great autofocus in live view. I am shortsighted therefore shooting in live view is much easier. There are many millions like me that are shortsighted and despite that love photography. some of my pictures http://www.panoramio.com/user/2896886

2 upvotes

if I'd have older Canon or Nikon camera - I wouldn't shoot with live view either. It's horrible out there.

2 upvotes

Dear ET--Phone Home...

Uh, battery grip...hello? It stores two batteries, doubling battery life. And Sony--uht-uh. The only vertical grip available is for the A77. Minolta was a much better company: they had grips for all their models. Maybe we should call Sony, "Sady."

0 upvotes

BCMAR15, so you expect entry-level consumer to buy the battery grip -- or be left with 180 shots? Canon tried to improve the liveview experience on this camera, but it can only do 180 per charge in live-view?

Sorry, this is a con

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

Even Canon's top DSLR right now is a failure. Rebels have a tradition of being mediocre garbage cans producing mediocre images for years. Is this rebel any different? This is something for those people who give a damn to go and work out.

0 upvotes

And i suppose you're trying to insinuate that Nikon or Sony's equivalents were actually superior in any form whatsoever...

Canon isn't exactly linear in its approach to Rebel series upgrades... sticking with 18 MP on an entirely redesigned sensor was a good move... and seems to be paying of in great dividents as far as IQ is concerned... even their revamped AF should be more accurate & responsive campared to Nikon's D3100 / 3200 & D5100 range...

Nikons decision to implement 24 MP on an APS-C sensor sounds like a massive upgrade (on paper at least) ... but even from sample images, IQ seems to be a notch or two behind their previous generation of DSLR's... colour rendition & depth seems to be muted for some reason... and noise... well its okay... but even Sony's NEX 7 is a cut above them...

6 upvotes

What a load of garbage.

I have several magazine covers and other published photos taken with a 350D and they are tack-sharp and beautiful. My T2i has better image quality than the 350D.

1 upvote

Dear Tape Worm...

Why is the Nikon fanboy pissin' in Canon's snow? He wrote this over there (about the D3200):

"If you ever see a river of cameras washing past you, I bet you reach for the red one in there."

Really? Well, if I see a river of cameras washing past, I'm pushing YOUR ass in as you, duh, "...reach for the red one."

Go away, dummy!

0 upvotes

Hihihihi, the first iDSLR (good one Canon, this one is for the iPhone fans)... Stay tuned, all others will start thinking and "copy" Canon quite soon. Now, a short note on the competition and EVF: sometimes you cannot land a plane (no matter the size) only based on onboard computers/electronics. You will have to use your eyes, because sometimes electronics can fail you. Badly. So, to me, OVFs are, even in the future, the better choice.

4 upvotes

Have you actually used a touchscreen camera? Panasonic have had them on their m4/3 cameras for ages implemented in a way that simply makes the camera quicker to use, which is of course a good thing.

Also I'm not sure how an EVF would ever "fail you" as if anything they are a more realistic representation of what the sensor is actually seeing, which is quite different to what your eyes would see.

2 upvotes

Presumably you prefer a film camera over digital also, for the same reasons?

1 upvote

As much as I hate Canon, (I think they've been putting out junk for a long time), I may actually buy this. I've been considering the Pentax K-5 or the new K-30 when it comes out, but this will be out a month sooner at the same price. It's got a higher resolution than both of the Pentax models, a fully articulated LCD, full time fast and silent video autofocus, (compared to no video focus on the Pentaxs) and more lens choices.

The Pentaxs have weather-sealing, but that isn't a deal breaker for me. My biggest concern is image quality.

Canon image quality has typically been very lackluster, but this is a new sensor, new engine, and I will reserve judgement until I've seen the IQ tests. Maybe they're going to turn it around this time.

1 upvote

"Canon image quality has typically been very lackluster, but this is a new sensor, new engine, and I will reserve judgement until I've seen the IQ tests. Maybe they're going to turn it around this time."

First of all, stop being an anal pixel peeper. Millions of photographers worldwide, both amateur and pro, take great pictures with their supposedly "lackluster...junk" Canon's! LOL. Today's cameras are extraordinary devices delivering superb levels of IQ, and if you're getting "lackluster" IQ from them, the problem is probably more with you than the camera.

Secondly, regardless of whatever improvements Canon may or may not have with this "new sensor, new engine", etc, these days the differences in IQ between cameras is so minimal that you really, really do need anal pixel peeping to discern differences. And even then, with the right post processing you can even further minimize any differences. So I say just buy cameras based on features (or other factors) rather than IQ tests.

6 upvotes

sorry, the K-5 plays in another league, and see DxOMark
and the test here at dpreview

4 upvotes

Hey Joe, (like rustics said) you can't compare this Rebel to the K-5—the K-5 is in totally different league, basically the best you can get with an APS-C sized sensor.

2 upvotes

not really true (cough cough D7000) but you are right that this D650 can't and should NOT be compared to K-5.
To the OP: Just the fact that K-5 har 2 wheels puts it WAAAY above D650.
Weather sealing and picture quality are also way above it.

0 upvotes

If the AF of my D7000 was better in low light I would certain crown it the king of APS-C...

0 upvotes

"First of all, stop being an anal pixel peeper. Millions of photographers worldwide, both amateur and pro, take great pictures with their supposedly "lackluster...junk" Canon's! LOL. Today's cameras are extraordinary devices delivering superb levels of IQ, and if you're getting "lackluster" IQ from them, the problem is probably more with you than the camera."

No, they are obviously poor at "delivering superb levels of IQ," unless you think soft images are "superb." Viewing images at 1:1 is not pixel peeping. If images at 1:1 are soft or blurry then that should be unacceptable.

There has been no improvement over the years in delivering sharper images from Canon or any of the mainstream brands. Just more megapixels and a ridiculous obsession with high iso and now video.

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting

1 upvote

For many this will be more interesting as an HDSLR video cam, a kind of poor man's 7D. But for that application, with the GH2, and the GH3 just on horizon, there are frankly better choices. Unless of course you are heavily invested in EF glass. Lots of choices but I'm personally not a fan of Canon's conservative, incremental upgrade approach that always seems to have an eye toward protecting their higher end.

3 upvotes

That's the big thing...glass is expensive and really there is not a HUGE difference in IQ between any two cameras especially if you ignore the extreme scenes (night/dark shooting at very high ISO). Feature wise the T4i looks great (time lapse and moreso quiet shutter mode would be nice for me though - I assuem it doe snot have silent mode, have not checked).

0 upvotes

not bad, the body is good. all around good for the price. could be better but...

0 upvotes

1. Plastic: doesnt matter, its all good nowadays.
2. AF: Typical Canon....the best and very reassuring.
3. Features......Yawn, boring Canon never ground breaking.
4. Sensor: Cant match the sony sensors in Nikon and Pentax.
5. Megapixels: Who cares its all gone silly and glad to see only 18......
6. Sales? ...........bucket loads because its Canon and who can beat the EOS marketing machine.
7. video: pretty good, up there with sony.......or go buy a video cam.
Summary: Just another solid Canon product with no major class leading or ground breaking ideas which will sell by the gazillions
Time to roll over and go back to sleep.

1 upvote

Not bad! Canon is the first who attempts a smooth move to the mirrorless. Wouldn't work due to PDAF-optimized lenses, but can't blame them for trying. Who knows, they might even think something up for the lenses!

P.S. Unlike Olympus, dropping dead its DSLRs (and abandoning their users) completely, rendering great (and rather expensive) zooms pretty useless chunks of (expensive) glass.

3 upvotes

Did you miss the bit with the on-sensor PDAF? :)

0 upvotes

Indeed I have. The amount of minor stuff inside had overwhelmed me :)

0 upvotes

Canon is without ideas.

3 upvotes

Canon have been doing what they've been doing for the last several decades of Rebel SLRs: producing reliable, good-but-not-mind-blowing, well-featured cameras that consistently sell well year after year. That's not being "without ideas." Canon has a very good idea of what the consumer wants. That's why the Rebel continues to endure and continues to be at the top of sales. I think a lot of consumers just want a good, reliable, consistent, well-balanced product with just the right balance of features at the right price.

This new Rebel is keeping in line with that long tradition. For example, it's still a trusty, consistent Rebel, but it adds touch-screen technology. I think the touchscreen, alone, will be very attractive to a lot of consumers. After all, practically everyone has a touchscreen phone in their pocket. A touchscreen may not be a mind-blowing idea, but it's a smart one to bring to their DSLRs and one that I think many customers will appreciate.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

There ideas are usually to copy other manufacturers features.

3 upvotes

If camera makers didn't copy each other, there would only be ONE camera to chose from.

Hello, this is Earth, have we met?

2 upvotes

It may be that Canon has gotten conservative in its old age but Canon has historically been an innovative company.

I'm not sure if anyone else was 'first' but Canon has been the introducing esoteric technology into the marketplace for decades.

This include image stabilization (lens), hybrid image stabilization, diffractive optics, fluorite elements and eye controlled focus. I think they were also first with electronically controlled aperture diaphragms as well.

I just wish Canon were bolder and kept on the path of innovation since they seem to be concentrating on their product silos and letting their competitors bear the risk (and reward).

3 upvotes

tonywong, what people fail to realize is that a lot of those technologies were actually "copied" from other manufacturers. For example, optical image stabilization first appeared in a Nikon back in 1994 in a compact film camera called the Zoom 700VR. A few years later, Canon took that idea and put it into their SLR lenses. And if there were big photo internet forums back then, people would be complaining that Canon was "without ideas" and used to be "an innovative company,...but now they just copy other companies!" LOL

Every generation thinks that Canon has "gotten conservative" and boring, and is "without ideas". And ten years from now, even as Canon continues to improve and update their products and be at the top of sales, people will STILL be saying that Canon is "without ideas" and is no longer "an innovative company", just like short-sighted people are doing right now. Every generation loves to declare that Canon has "gotten conservative" and is going under.

Comment edited 15 seconds after posting

1 upvote

T3, the Nikon was introduced in 1994 and the Canon lens was 1995. I don't think that image stabilization was invented solely by one company but with university research and government cooperation in Japan. Also, I'm not talking about pure invention but market risk as well.

Just like video in DSLRs, Nikon has been able to pip Canon a few times with some features but Canon has historically had some interesting concepts and they weren't afraid to lead. No one copied Canon's pellicle mirror for decades until Sony's SLTs were introduced.

I never claimed Canon was going under. I think you are trying to overreach by putting me in with the doomsayers. I'm saying they should keep swinging for the fences instead of bunting.

0 upvotes

I still have a 650 (the very first ESO camera) complete with a sticky shutter - a common fault. I think the new 650D is interesting and full AF with video is very welcome as is an improved 18MP sensor. Not sure if either will work quite as well as claimed - only time will tell. Photographers MAKE pictures, cameras simply take images. Even more interesting will be the replacement of the 7D & 60D, however at what cost? All of the new Canon kit seems to have jumped up quite a lot. Last point - a 40mm pancake ?????- 64mm on cropped and not much more use on FF. Why oh why didn't Canon make it a 35mm pancake instead? Love Canon but sometimes they do stupid things, I suspect the 40mm is the latest (but not the last).

1 upvote

People are getting a little too hung up on the "conventional" focal length numbers. "OMG, it's 40mm instead of 35mm! This lens is useless!" That's ridiculous, of course. People need to just loosen up a bit. There are no hard and fast rules that state that 35mm is infinitely better, while 40mm completely sucks. Likewise, there are no hard and fast rules that state that 50mm or 85mm is great, but 64mm is pitiful.

The reality is that great images are taken at all kinds of focal lengths. That's what ends up happening with zoom lenses, after all. And the same will happen once people start using this 40mm lens. People need to let go of their pre-conceived notions of what focal lengths people "should" be using. To imply that a 40mm or 64mm (equiv) focal length is "stupid" or "not much use" is quite stupid IMHO. 35mm? GREAT! 40mm? STUPID and USELESS! LOL.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

I'm sorry but a 40mm is STUPID, I had the 'original' pancake 40mm f2.8 lens on my Pentax MX - it remained at the bottom of my bag. When I came to sell it (as I moved to Nikon) the purchaser dismissed it as a joke lens, which was a shame cause it was lovely - just not very useful. Canon have two 35mm lenses currently - an expensive L 1.4 and a cheap as chips (but old slow AF) 35 f2. Surely there was (is) room for a modern 35 f2.8 STM lens. I fully expect the new 40mm will be very good - my point is that it wouldn't be very useful. If STM lenses are to catch on Canon need to wait up and stop trying to prevent leakage sales from older kit. A royal pound says Canon will have a line up of STM lenses within 18 mths and the 40mm will be forgotten unless its VERY VERY good and remains very cheap.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

I am glad that Canon is back into the game and implemented features similar to those of competitors. In some aspects it is even better.
My Pany m43 has better touch screen and AF implementation than my Sony NEX but I think Canon 650D trumps both of them.

2 upvotes

Rebel is bad. With or without a cause. Particularly when it is in red Marvel fonts. Rebels of this world all turned out to be mummy's boys needing to be loved. This Canon needs to be loved too. Really badly, and that, makes it a bad camera.

0 upvotes

Time to take your medication. You're mumbling incoherent statements again.

1 upvote

The Plastic Fantastic Canon Rebel Series ..... they FEEL and LOOK like you should buy them at Toys-R-Us. The Nikon camera's in this range may not be any better in image quality, but at least they are Made Better, Feel Better, Look Better and last longer. I've known too many student photogs that complain about the short life-span of the "budget" Canons.

They're over-priced for what you get, too. Sorry, Ashton Krutcher commercials do not justify a +20% price tag. Just a Gag.

5 upvotes

That's non-sense. I stil have an old Rebel XT/350D that is still going strong, even after all these years of abuse, being dropped, knocked, kicked, used in the rain, snow, dust, sea spray, etc. The reason why the Rebel series continues to be so popular after so many years is because it's a very good, reliable product that does last a long, long time.

If you have any doubts about the durability of these "budget" DSLRs, watch DigitalRev's durability test where they take a Nikon D90 and Canon 550D and proceed to put it through massive amounts of abuse. Both continue to operate just fine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tTBncIsm8

12 upvotes

T3: +1, so do I.

2 upvotes

+2.
The high performance plastic materials used in many digital cameras are no joke. They last and last.
Anybody who complains about FEEL and LOOK of plastic body must have been smoking some dope.

2 upvotes

Nikon is great in terms of the photography options on their entry D3200 or semi pro D800 but you got to give it that Canons options in terms of videoagraphy and photographics options are still better than nikon on anyones opinion, nikor lenses have a soft tone to them when filmming.Canons T4i is a new level of camera that has all sorts of features people who have special interest for video more or less than photography can be happy about this camera, although no mic jack in, many people still use separte audio devices to record sound, the mics built in provide emergenct situations and traveling occations.The durability on these cameras are amazing, even the plastic fantastic line as you say xD.Firmware is strong and fast, no loading for a special GUI menu, pretty straight foward and gets the job done.Multitouch isnt necessary but its quite a new touch to this camera thats rare for cameras now a days.

0 upvotes

+3 :P

0 upvotes

@AllanZ

Not sure which Nikkors you've used for video, but a set of matched Nikkor AIS lenses is one of the gold standards in HDSLR photography. Not soft at all, nor are AF-S Nikkors. If you want to talk about soft, we should mention that the 5D3 is significantly softer than the D800 for HD video. This is a fact.

And Canon has a history in video, and Nikon doesn't. But Nikon DSLRs with their significantly better sensor technology have been outperforming the Canon equivalents for photography for quite a while.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

I think I did the math just last week. My old 350Da shutter has spent over 3000 hours open in conditions that most would never even think of running a camera. It's spent entire nights on 2 batteries running in -20F capturing images. It's captured flood damage in pouring rain and it fires every time! (not that I recommend taking the chances but it *can* handle it) Every thing still works, and though it may feel like a plastic 'toy', every thing changes when you put on a battery grip. It feels no less qualified as a camera than a D3100-5000.

0 upvotes

@ AllanZ. T4i does have a microphone input. Look at the pics from this preview.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i/5

0 upvotes

I think that the features thst this camera offers are great. I just hope that Canon will re-consider adjusting the price of the 18-135 kit lens to $1099 and then I feel they would have a real winner on their hands. I can't wait to see a full review of how the new AF for video performs.

1 upvote

I agreed and I already have two mirrorless systems, The Panasonic m43 and Sony NEX on hand. Still, I drool over the features on this Rebel 650D. On paper, the touch screen, menu, touch AF seem to be better than what Pany and Sony have. It's definitely a must-have just reading the description alone and Canon is coming with even more models 70D and the highly rumored real mirrorless camera system.
If you don't want to pay the list price, don't be the first to buy one. Just wait for a few months after it is available on market. I paid only $900 for my 60D body, that's $200 below list price.

0 upvotes

Panasonic m43 cameras have touchscreens for ages, as well as good video features, as good as this Canon or better.

0 upvotes

Entry level DSLRs become redundant. From my perspective, none would miss the 650D or the D3200 if an APS-C mirrorless was the entry level camera.

Specifically for the 650D, it looks to me Canon is a generation behind. It barely bests the D3200 (all things considered) and we haven't even seen what D5200 will be like. Not to mention the truly innovative SLTs. More so if you take into account that Canon has used the same mirror technology decades ago, I can't imagine why they weren't the first to reintroduce the technology. Plus, Sony could put their hybrid AF system from the RX-100 into the SLT line, be done with the mirror and step even more forward.
I've said it countless times, I'm expecting Nikon to do this with one of their next releases, probably a D5200 without mirror and with an EVF. Or even without, a-la K-01. I, for one, wouldn't mind.

1 upvote

I sure would. Mirrorless isn't an option for me as I find EVFs just short of useless.

1 upvote

@ljfinger

+1. I feel much more comfortable looking through an OVF.

0 upvotes

Damo83, I was shooting wedding for 13 hours yesterday.I haven't had any problems with EVF of Sony A77. I worried about shooting for a long time with EVF 'til I tried...

7 upvotes

@ljfinger & Damo83
I bet you already own a higher grade DSLR. Otherwise you wouldn't value OVFs so much. I'm talking about entry level here.

+1 for hippo84. EVFs on DSLRs just started life. They will only get better with time. If I'm allowed an opinion, OVFs are going to die eventually.

1 upvote

I agree - I think thsoe who prefer OVFs are older guys who used film cameras. When I bought my XSI, it took me awhile to get used to sticking the camera up to my face to squinting through the tiny OVF. An EVF would be better for manual focus - it is impossible with a Rebel sized OVF to consistently get perfect manual focus, but with an EVF, they could zoom (and crop of course) the image all the way to 1:1.

2 upvotes

While it is true I do not like entry level OVFs, it is also true that EVFs still suck. If the viewfinder is that important, and I think it is, get a D7000, or better yet a D800.

1 upvote

There may be questions when compared EVF and OVF of FF cameras, but... It is enough to compare viewfinders of Canon 60D and Sony A65, for example. The difference is huge!

0 upvotes

I also own a Rebel T2i, and use its OVF for many things you can't do with an EVF.

I've used EVFs since the 80s for video, and they haven't improved much - they still stink.

0 upvotes

"There may be questions when compared EVF and OVF of FF cameras, but... It is enough to compare viewfinders of Canon 60D and Sony A65, for example. The difference is huge!"

I compared an A55 to a Canon 1000D, and I agree the difference was huge - the Canon was orders of magnitude better.

1 upvote

I agree EVFs still have a long way to go but frankly after getting an A55 I haven't even cared that I don't get to use the pentaprism viewfinder in my older A700 as it hardly bothers me whether its an EVF or OVF. In fact I appreciate that the EVF is 100% view and can also magnify the image to aid in focus for macros.

1 upvote

ljfinger - A55 is discontinued, EVFs of A37/57 is larger and have bigger resolution. A65/77 has OLED viewfinders with great resolution. Undoubtedly, EVF will become better and better, but OVF size is limited by the size of the sensor.

1 upvote

PDAF off sensor is good but not up to best mirrorbox systems for tracking, so far (exprienced shooters comapred the V1 to D300s, for example). But my guess is that Canon and Nikon will keep dominating the game when APS-C goes first hybrid (like Canon now) and them ML. In 2-3 years the mirror is gone from APS-C and down, then FF later. Canon is ready for their ML, some say as soon as later this month (G1X sensor size). It'll be a killer system (I'm a Nikon user btw).

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

"Plus, Sony could put their hybrid AF system from the RX-100 into the SLT line, be done with the mirror and step even more forward."

The RX100 doesn't have any hybrid AF system, it's just regular contrast detect AF. People wrongly assume this just because the sensor size is the same as in the Nikon J1/V1, but that sensor is made by Aptina, not Sony.

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting

1 upvote

"ljfinger - A55 is discontinued, EVFs of A37/57 is larger and have bigger resolution. A65/77 has OLED viewfinders with great resolution. Undoubtedly, EVF will become better and better, but OVF size is limited by the size of the sensor."

Size and resolution are totally irrelevant to the problems with EVFs. They could be huge and have infinite resolution and they'd still be awful.

0 upvotes

clueless and ignorant people will remain clueless and ignorant. Don't bother with any discussion - it's not constructive with people like ljfinger.

1 upvote

It is quite nice update from Canon, however.. The company became a copycat.

HDR, multi noise reduction, handheld night scene.. all copied from Sony's DSLR. Sony has HDR's since 2009, MNR, HNS also for about 2-3 years..

And now, another Canon's "breakthrough" in photography.

5 upvotes

Ehem... What company became a copycat?

As far as I know, Canon came up with translucent mirror technology as early as 1965 with the Canon Pellix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Pellix), but stepped away from it in the early nineties.
A semi-translucent mirror has lots of advantages, but is very prone to dirt and you lose a 1/3 stop of light.

It's quite common that technologies found from competing products are adapted, modified and eventually implemented in a new format. It occured with CCD and CMOS sensors, TTL, AF and other technologies.

4 upvotes

Well STL it is not pelix. Translucent mirror has different purpose in Sony camera. Of course Sony based SLT in some way on canon's invention from 1965, however in totally different way. In 650D canon did exact copy of Sony features. They work exactly the same way, that is why Canon is a copycat.

When Sony invents new features, usually haters say that they are stupid and unnecessary. After 2 years Canon copied those features and now tyeh are great.. because it is Canon..

3 upvotes

I agree with you, this time Canon just copies most of the nice features from Sony ...
I'm kinda disappointed, but hey it will be very welcome by Canon lovers. I used 2 Canon dslr before and I always wish them to have the nice features from Sony, then I switch to Sony and now Canon includes those features but I don't think i will come back :D

1 upvote

HDR was a very obvious feature to add. I wish they'd all include time lapse features - hassle using an external timer and I bet they've changed the connector so mine won't work with the T4i. Competing models are including it more and more.

0 upvotes

Canon does not copy everything. They still have that old Canon sensor, so I think the "copycat" tag is unwarranted.

5 upvotes

Canon is a copycat? I've been hearing people say that about Canon for decades. It's silly. They copy some things, copy and improve other things, or make entirely new stuff; it's a combination of all three things. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters is if the consumer is happy and buys your product.

0 upvotes

Canon even copied the logo for MFNR in the menu from Sony, if you look at Canon's menu, but the Sony version of multi-shot NR still takes 6 shots.. Canon's take 4 shots. So I am guessing the Sony's version would be slightly more effective.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

@Breen: everybody copies everybody else. Some copy and do it better ;).

0 upvotes

Canon copy themselves! What is this now, the FIFTH(!!) camera with 18MP sensor from years ago? 7D, 550D, 60D, 600D, 650D (with some added AF bonus I won't use)

0 upvotes

That's interesting that you should phrase HDR/DRO/Twilight as being a Sony technology.

If you follow the review trail you will see that all of the HDR multishot blending is licensed technology from Apical.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta77/12
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyNexC3/page7.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2009/3/18/apical

Relevant quote:
"You may not have heard of the British imaging technology company Apical but, if you've used a camera made in the last couple of years, there's every chance you've used technology it has developed. This is because a wide variety of cameras, from compacts through to pro-level DSLRs incorporate its processing algorithms. You may know it as D-Lighting, Shadow Adjustment Technology or Dynamic Range Optimization, but the underlying technology starts with Apical."

0 upvotes

The 650D means that canon is desperate, to counter Sony EVF with LiveView is forced to make a camera with the autofocus of a bridge.

2 upvotes

Canon is desperate? Canon's Rebel sales far outstrip Sony's DSLR sales.

6 upvotes

Just the T3i sells more, likely, than all IL Sonys together. :)

Comment edited 12 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

I despise Canon for their lack of progress on image quality since the 550D. How can they release 3 cameras at starkly different prices with the same sensor and image quality? The 650D does not seem like much of a step forward either. Aren't we going to get film like dynamic range, fine noise grain (especially in the lows)? Canon have much improvement to make but don't seem very willing to give it to us. Look at this to see exactly what I mean (vs Nikon's Sony produced sensor)...

http://www.eoshd.com/uploads/5dmk3-vs-d800-lows.jpg

0 upvotes

Can we get an anti-name-alias filter for this thing? One model name is sufficient enough.

3 upvotes

Video DSLR is the future so they say. How about non-video DSLR with better low light performance, better AF, and lower price?

Maybe they should release the 650D special edition without video?

3 upvotes

There is virtually no cost to adding video to a camera, so making the same camera without it would be stupid.

2 upvotes

maybe it's good idea for Leica M. :) There is Leica M-Monochrome ...

0 upvotes

sorry, Leica M... have no video, so Aputra, I think no-video is a expensive feature :P

Comment edited 26 seconds after posting

1 upvote

ROTFL

0 upvotes

Well, just wishing...

0 upvotes

D700, the ultimate non-video DSLR.

0 upvotes

The video is implimented in software. The last non video Canon was the 50d but you can make it a video DSLR with a firmware upgrade (albeit with no sound as it doesn't have a microphone). There's no trade off. Leaving it out won't get you your wishlist of better still photo goodies.

0 upvotes

Aputra - What evidence do you have that video makes stills quality worse? I'd love to see this line of thinking expanded upon.

Good luck!

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

The touch screen is nice. I like the ability to focus during video as well. Those would be nice additions on my K 01. However, image quality is somewhere between M43 and P&S. If that floats your boat, fine. If not, Nikon and Pentax with the better Sony sensors deliver the tonality. No IBIS nor focus peaking either. Too bad.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes


Video tests of the Canon EOS 650D / Rebel T4i's Hybrid autofocus system Aug 15, 2012	Canon issues allergy warning for EOS 650D/Rebel T4i Jul 10, 2012	Canon EOS 650D preview updated with studio and real-world samples Jul 4, 2012	Canon announces EOS 650D / Rebel T4i 18MP touch-screen DSLR with Hybrid AF Jun 8, 2012

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Just Posted: Canon Rebel T4i / EOS 650D preview with real-world samples

Canon EOS 650D (EOS Rebel T4i / EOS Kiss X6i)

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