Nikon tells PDN it is looking for a fix for D800 and D4 lock-up bug: Digital Photography Review

I have been having exactly the same problem (not even an issue) with my D700 for the last three years. The local camera repair shop cannot fix it after two hundred dollars. Nikon Canada in Vancouver fixed it three times; six months and four hundred dollars later, the problem persists. They blame it on the Tamron lens but when I abandoned that and plunged in to buy a Nikon equivalent, the problem continues. They said they have never had that problem before. Alas, and now the D800 and the D4.

0 upvotes

Ahh, I remember the days when products were tested in house before release, rather than on the first wad of early adopters. More profit if you don't have to test yourself, now that's what I call GOOD BUSINESS. :)

0 upvotes

Stop early adopting, people.

0 upvotes

A reasonable person would say this is unfortunate but predictable given the level of complexity.

0 upvotes

I would still take D800 over F3 ...

1 upvote

In an email to customer with existing D800 pre-orders Vistek (one of the major Canadian retailers) claims that Nikon is having "production problems" with the D800.

Read more on NikonRumors.com: http://nikonrumors.com/2012/04/15/weekly-nikon-news-flash-158.aspx/#ixzz1u7qpyG5J

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 38 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

guess they stopped all production until the fix is out... more delays..

0 upvotes

to raincoat,

This is good ... for those who have not yet bought the new toy! A rule of thumb, try not to be a guinea pig.

0 upvotes

At least we know what the problem is and there is a workaround. I'd hate to see a reset button on a cam but it may yet come to that. It also points to an inherent complexity of DSLR vs. MIL cams. [I know, fuji is so wonderful it can prove just the opposite.]

When will the Merrill patent expire? This will put pressure on the sensor, smaller ones benefiting. Meanwhile, I'd like to see a Skype-like feature on a WiFi cams (with the fully articulated display facilitating the view of the remote party.)

0 upvotes

I don't know what's wrong with these major camera manufacturers. Consumers are paying over 3 grants for this so-called top of the line pro cameras, and you would think you get something bug free with that kind of price tag. Oh no, the Canon 5D2 can't focus, Canon 5D3 has a light leak issue while the D800 is a backward version of the D700 with mediocre LCD screen and backward auto focus switch. Canon and Nikon, if you can't get your acts together, get out of this business f#XKer!!!

0 upvotes

Almost every auto manufacturer recalls cars, trucks, and vans for various brake, engine, and master control unit issues. What are your thoughts on that?

Major technological devices allow room for thousands of mechanical and software related problems. I find it hard to believe that every one who downloads a security patch or software upgrade is on the verge of trading in their iSomething or PC for an abacus.

2 upvotes

And the space shuttle has tiles that fall off. Technology causes problems. Or should I say "issues".

2 upvotes

My Mercedes SL500 needed a new transmission at 57,000 miles, not a computer fix, a new transmission, it was covered by warranty. They have been making this transmission for many years and they can still have problems with it.
So a light leek or software bug in millions of lines of code is no surprise. I'd be surprised if any new camera didn't have a problem.
Every time Microsoft comes out with a new operating system there are problems to be fix and they spend a lot more than any camera company does on software.
Back in the old days, for me that's the late 60's, the Nikon F only had a battery for the meter, everything else worked without that battery.

0 upvotes

Pacemakers are recalled all the time due to bad batteries or the lead wire breaks, guess what is more important, a bug in a D800 or a pacemaker.

0 upvotes

Wow BAD news for the Nikon fanboys.. Well, i hope Nikon have the permanent solution for this ASAP.

3 upvotes

Just to be fair here, Canon has a light leak issue for the 5D3. I guess it is fair to say that they both suck!!!!!

0 upvotes

Not a fanboy but a Nikon user, light leak under extreme condition still sounds less disasterous than a 3K door stop ... still, not going to cancel my D800 pre-order ...

0 upvotes

Hey guys, just be cool. That's the reality here. Ugly truth hurts. But to be fair, Canon already made the perfect solution for the lightleak issue in just few days, which i think is not a big issue if you know your gear and know their limits. And for the Nikon, hoping they will Fix the issue ASAP. Happy shooting..

3 upvotes

And what about green LCDs and left point auto-focus issues?

2 upvotes

What about the white Canon lenses :-)

0 upvotes

These latest models were pushed out rather quick. Previous models got testing up to a year in advance by pro shooters.

With the tsunami/earthquake, these models were only in the hands of pros days before they were officially announced.

I'm still unhappy with the level of QC at Nikon, and their US repair dept is abysmal, but it still seems like folks are overreacting here.

1 upvote

What about all the people who bought the d800 and they don’t know about all the problems, ok I know it has a focusing problems but all the other malfunctioning is hard to know whether it is something that I don’t know how to use or it is a problem from the camera, don’t you think they should recall all the serial numbers which have problem....

1 upvote

Which particular focusing problem are you referring to?

0 upvotes

The left side of the focusing point, I'm using the 24-70 2.8 lens, i have the 8000xxx code on my camera.

0 upvotes

I don't see anyone complaining about their cell phone or computer here, but modern digital cameras are really a computer and a lot of software with a big sensor chip wrapped around old-fashioned shutters, mirrors, and optics. Really, it's time to acknowledge that software errors like this are part of technology and stop bashing the manufacturer. We all want perfection, but sometimes problems don't appear until they are out "in the wild" where massive numbers of people exercise every feature of the product more than testers can. Please get out and shoot some photos instead of wasting time on a fact of life.

2 upvotes

Well said! This lockup bug can probably be easily fixed with a firmware update.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

Ooops. Nobody's perfect.

0 upvotes

Yikes! This was careless of Nikon. Hope they fix the issue. I read somewhere just now two D800's have reportedly exploded. Whilst that would make quite an interesting moment at a wedding, I really would rather not have that happen at a wedding i'm shooting with a colleague shooting with one of these!

3 upvotes

Yes, they can now be used by terroist for suicide missions ..ha..ha.

0 upvotes

Jahled said 'I read somewhere just now two D800's have reportedly exploded'.
I would like to read that, do you recall where or what "somewhere' is?

0 upvotes

This has happened twice to my camera & after the battery recall I had hoped it was due to overheating but guess not- once I had to remove the battery and once just restarted- what a drag!
Thanks for the update!

0 upvotes

Oh my. I'm sure it was so painful to pull the battery and wait the whole second that body takes to start up. Gimme a break. That's happened once in how many shots? I had my k7 lock once. It wasn't a big deal. You do realize how f***ing complex these dslrs are don't you??

0 upvotes

ha, ha, ha -
such a bullsh ** for $ 3000 and more

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

5 upvotes

These new megabucks priced Canikon DSLRs are full of unadulterated, untested garbage, it seems. So sad, more than anything else, really. When even Nikon cannot make decent cameras without "Bugzilla had hit Downtown Tokyo!!!!", what else if left?

0 upvotes

Both of you, please buy a manual film camera, no lockup, focus issues or greenish display! This all will be addressed in an upcoming firmware upgrade, I am sure about that.

0 upvotes

back to the problem:
I bought a D4 AND a D800
In the 1st wedding I used them both.
BOTH of them freezed.
twice the D4 and 3times the D800.
This happened at highly important moments.
If my clients were clever enough to see what's missing they could even sue me.

Now, apart from being patient and forgiving complex technologies
should I sue the company for providing me faulty tools?

I have to mention I used them for about a month BEFORE the wedding without a single problem...

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

7 upvotes

you can´t sue nikon.. it´s a feature not a bug. lol

it prevents you from ruining you eyes because of a bad viewfinder.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1110652

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

Thats why most people wait at least 6 months before buying new technology.. Obviously you did shoot differently during the wedding then prior the shoot, otherwise it would have happened before also.

1 upvote

They can sue you for missing a shot? Wow. Doesn't leave much room for error, like say equipment failure. What kind of insane contracts are you writing up there?

1 upvote

It is very much like the release of a new operating system...don't buy it if you aren't ready for the initial "bugs". Wait for awhile...let them fix what problems arise...something akin to the Fuji "orbs"?

2 upvotes

Very good points Nuts57!
Those people who buy early releases tend to pay more mney and they also unwittingly become "Guinea pigs" for unknown bugs and errors....

1 upvote

Sad, very sad nowadays you are getting into a jungle when buying a new... almost everything! Cars, phones, computers, cameras... after one year maybe the faults are fixed, and in another year or two, obsolete.

Nice.

2 upvotes

maybe nikon had to raise the price in the UK because they have forseen the increasing cost of support? LOL....

viewfinder out of focus issues
LCD color issues
focusing issues
freezing issues
battery issues

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/04/nikon-issues-battery-recall-en-el15-d800-d800e-d7000-v1

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/04/22/nikon-refutes-greenish-tint-issues-says-lcd-on-d4d800-is-more-accurate/

http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/04/05/and-the-nikon-d800-autofocus-saga-continues-with-some-comments-on-specific-lens-performance/

and the best.. EXPLODING D800´s... lol...

http://www.canonwatch.com/another-exploded-nikon-d800/

Comment edited 5 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

Seems like some Canon fanboys are so upset about Nikon taking the lead that they by all means seek to trash Nikon. Very childish.

3 upvotes

I don't like see people trashing and trolling and that's the reality today. I am a Canon owner since many many years and I am happy with that.
But I am not pleased to see people glad over Nikon or Canon facing problems. This is natural today! Realize that! Cameras are so complex that it takes many months to test every single function on them. We consumers expect more and more with each new model but when there are some issues people are quick to judge. I thins the D800 is a very competent and nice model and I hope it will be as popular as the 5D II became among Canonists.

9 upvotes

well anhund, i only try to level the s h * t written by nikon fanboys about the canon light leak..
i guess you know that already.... as you are one of the biggest nikon fanboys around here.

4 upvotes

Fact is, most of these newly released Canikon DSLRs are pretty much value-less for professional applications. And they actually want $$$ MONEY €€€ for them wow!!!

0 upvotes

I shoot with Canon's because I always have done; I prefer how they feel. Simple as that. But i've got plenty of mates who shoot Nikon and I would be gutted for them if their cameras had faults such as these, and not just as a mate expressing genuine sympathy; but from a commercial point of view, given I have to work with them, and if their gear is broken, it's going to have a knock on effect to our final product as well. Hope Nikon quickly find a fix :)

2 upvotes

Gothmoth. I prefer Nikon due to the lenses I already invested in (have owned a couple of Canons too), but I never spend time trashing in reviews of equipment from other manufacturers. That is simply a waste of time.

So I don't understand why you are spending time on a product that does not have any interest to you at all as I suppose you are a Canon user? Why do you want to level the s h * t others write?

Does it really matter what others write about your brand, if you are happy with it. I don't think Canon need you to defend them - Canon is big and will remain big even with all the s h * t that is written.

0 upvotes

Many dslrs have focusing screen issues due to the narrow tolerances required. That's why each manufacturer has different sized shims to adjust them. You people are a bunch of whiners. All new technology has some initial kinks due to complexity.

2 upvotes

A massive amount of venting going on in these forums - it's really reaching fever pitch. Doesn't anyone want to discuss actual photography any more?
Don't worry too much about the cameras, and especially who made which one and how they're ripping you or the next guy off.
Cameras today are a bazillion times better than ever before. Go out and use them. If it breaks, get it fixed and then use it some more.
And get this: Your Nikon is not better than someone else's Canon. And your Canon is not better than someone else's Nikon. Neither Canon OR Nikon are conspiring to "Rip Off" their loyal customers/fanboys.
Stop whining, man, I can't take it any more!

8 upvotes

You mean we should all love photography and love each other??!!

NEVER SIR, NEVER !!

''Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drenched our steeples, drowned the cocks!''

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

"Cameras today are a bazillion times better than ever before. Go out and use them."

As recently as 10-15 years ago, camera mfrs were releasing decent quality, internally tested cameras.

These days with the endless digital hype, they release but fancy looking garbage, it increasingly seems. When you cannot trust Canon, Nikon, Fujinon, etc. any more, who can you really trust?

0 upvotes

I think you hit things on the head. Brand loyalty may be obvious economic reality, but brand bashing is simply meaningless; and as you point out, also completely daft. Camera's don't take photographs, humans do

0 upvotes

I reported this problem here over 3 weeks ago already, now the biggies have also noticed...

Camera, in this case a test D4, would function normally, but would not fire. On/off switch would not function, only way to turn it off was to cold boot by removing the battery.

1 upvote

As a consumer, I find it really annoying that photographers are expected to buy a new camera that simply doesn't work. With near £20K invested in the tools necessary to take a good photos, and I find it frustrating in the extreme when I'm hampered by dodgy equipment.

However, having worked as a professional tester, I recognise that it's just impossible to conceive of testing scenarios that will predict every way in which your product might be used - and in fact, no testing even attempts to. If they did attempt to, you could expect to wait an extra year for a new camera release, and expect the prices to be considerably higher to cover the additional costs incurred pre-release, still with no guarantee that they will catch every fault that could occur under any circumstances.

I'm glad I have access to new technology sooner, but it'd be easier to swallow the problems if the first takers (often a brand's most loyal customers) weren't fleeced by the initially higher prices.

6 upvotes

This could easily be rectified by a user testing program prior to release like software companies do. 50 or 100 different photographers using the camera everyday in real world situations for a few months would catch many of these problems.

4 upvotes

Finaly someone makes a sensible note.

0 upvotes

Problems of Nikon, Canon, Fuji ... and maybe other brands.
I think the real problem is that machines as complex as those of today require very long test times to submit to many tests, but the manufacturers do not have all the time because too pressured to enter new machines on the market before the competition. All this is obviously at the expense of quality. This happened on the production of some lens. To pay for all this are the people who buy these new products first. They are the real testers who discover defects which then subsequently their signals are suitably corrected by the manufacturers.
However I think it absurd that professional cameras and professional lenses can have these problems considering their high cost.
I personally prefer to buy a product after its release to make sure that you have fewer problems and I'm not a consumer of professional machines.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

I'm not sure about 50-100 photographers but Canon and Nikon both do have beta testers who put these cameras through the paces before they are released to the public. Fanboyism just magnifies these problems 1000 fold when it invariably shows up.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

What ever happened to quality control? Fuji, canon and now nikon.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

Digital technology happened. It's far easier to test a mechanical device, but once you have multiple chips and software involved, most of which does far more than you are aware of, it's just not possible to manage every possible interaction between these devices (which carry out millions of instructions whilst you snap away), in every weather, being held in every plane, with every brand of media and battery, shooting every type of subject in all lighting conditions, in all humidities, in all temperatures, at all altitudes, from all distances, etc. All these things affect how the camera works, and how the images are processed during and after shooting, and the number of combinations is astronomical.

When we all shot film, there were far fewer variables that had to be considered. The more complex cameras become, the less realistic to expect it to be perfect on release.

5 upvotes

Doesn't matter. They need to do testing in all conditions before they sell. All they care about now is getting the product out first before the conpetition. I guess you must work for one of those companies.

6 upvotes

I rather it release later after completing all the trial testing. 1st in Olympics is useless.

1 upvote

OH not only the above cameras have problem, now Olympus OM-D also shutter jammed up on the first two days of using during a nature trip. Happened with my friend's new camera. Happened two times. Had to pulled out the batteries and insert agian to reset the problem.

1 upvote

These high-priced digital cameras are increasingly becoming "DEFINITE NO BUYS." Why spend good real money on some badly bugged experimental fake camera?

0 upvotes

No lock-up here, knock on wood.

0 upvotes

It's the world of the golden calf.

1 upvote

Wow, Nikon need some black tape from Canon to fix it!!!

7 upvotes

Unfortunately it looks like the practice in the software industry of using the first customers to essentially do the final testing for them is bleeding over into actual, physical products.

4 upvotes

Where are all the Nikon-boys screaming and laughing at Canon and the light leak...???

Every big camera maker has shown some pretty bad build faults in the last year.

There is no point to pick on others people cameras unless you are 5 years old.

But Nikon... we are missing shots here, not just a light leak...ah ah ah

10 upvotes

At least there's a work-around that doesn't compromise camera operation, and it sounds like nothing more than a firmware fix. Not at all like having to send a camera back to dismantle it and install black tape. No need to miss shots here and no need to send the camera away for service. You were saying?

7 upvotes

Hey BJN, Light leak issue doesn't effect 99.99% of the photographers... It doesn't hang up in the middle of a shoot. Work around, net even required... and you were saying?

9 upvotes

Oh you guys flying arrows at each others and making each other unhappy and pumping blood pressure too. You don't really own Nikon share or Canon share of the company and it is also not good for your health. Just wait for them to solve the problem. After all when a camera fails it will eventually fails.

2 upvotes

Considering your own statement, we can assume you are 5 years old DioCanon? :)

0 upvotes

You know...with all these problems between Canon and Nikon and other cameras, maybe it's time to find another hobby.

6 upvotes

Or just stop worrying about it and go out and take some damned pictures. I mean your equipment is working right? So go shoot and quit your moaning.

1 upvote

incredible!

0 upvotes

I am shocked, SHOCKED, that they would release a camera that is not perfect. What were they thinking?
<sarcasm/>

1 upvote

almost all the cameras releases in last couple of years have some sort of unresolved issues at release. none of the new cameras released are perfect.

1 upvote

>C, sarcasm buddy ...

0 upvotes

oh well, firmware fixes are the norm these days. Cameras are getting more and more complex.

3 upvotes

I got my D800 on Monday & I haven't come across (yet) any of the problems mentioned by PDN nor some of the other comments about focusing problems. Likewise I have not had battery or viewfinder issues. So far it's been pretty good apart from Auto WB. That is poor in comparsion to my Olympus E-5's Auto WB. Mind you that's easily fixed by me not being lazy & doing the WB properly.

4 upvotes

And we thought the fuji x10 had problems!!!

2 upvotes

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/jaccuse.shtml
... gather goes with any manufacturer these days.

0 upvotes

oh well.. all the nikon bigmouth fanboys.. what they are doing now?

battery issues, viewfinder issues, focus issues, freezing issues with the D4 and D800.

well i rather have a light leak that affects me at -4 EV then all these OBVIOUS issues. so where are the nikon fanboys who asked about canons testing procedures? ROTFLOL

btw: in 2009 nikon had these freezes with a camera too and recalled them.
google it.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting

5 upvotes

5D III has focus issues, just Google it - not as bad as 5D II where the problem was permanent though :-)

2 upvotes

I can always count on Henry to be one of the biggest Canon fanboys on these forums. The stakes are high so mistakes are bound to be made by any company. There's no such thing as a perfect camera right from the start anymore.

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting

5 upvotes

Okay Nikon owners, stop laughing at your 5D Mark III cronies for their leaky problem. That might be a drip in the pail next to your own worries — namely, possible “lock-up”, focus and viewfinder hitches on your D800 or D4. Nikon verified that a “small number” of units of both DSLRs can lock up and become unresponsive, but until there’s a permanent patch you can prevent this by disabling both highlight and RGB histogram displays. The company also verified that a “run” of D800s is suffering from a viewfinder bug, although it has yet to confirm another emerging problem with autofocus in some units, which apparently requires a factory fix. So, if you’ve noticed any of this with your pricey new D800, or really pricey D4, your best bet might be to reach out to your Nikon repair center post-haste. And don’t let the Canon guys see you.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/04/nikon-confirms-woes-with-d4-and-d800/

3 upvotes

I don't recall even giving the Canon black tape issue a second thought. But it's abundantly clear that there are insecure Canonites who care way too much about what's going on in the other camp. The trolls apparently really get to you folks. It's only a camera.

4 upvotes

BETA-TEST CAMERAS

How hard would it be to get into position for a major manufacturing rollout, and instead of just distributing them; have them sent directly to people who agree to test the cameras for them, along with a detailed form to be filled.

In exchange for the test, the clients are asked to place all of their photos in the same folder location, and use a Nikon software tool which uploads the exif of all the RAW files so that Nikon knows if the client just held the shutter down with a rock while he watched a movie or something.

After 90 days & a minimum 10,000 shutter actuations, Nikon asks for their beta-testing form to be sent in. Then everyone who made the Beta-List gets to keep their cameras for free.

3 upvotes

Whats wrong with manufacturers today?

Have they ever heard terms quality testing? Or at least in IT language "beta testing"?

D800, 5DMK3, X Pro1 .. if they were games, nobody would play or buy them as no one likes betaversions.

In case Sony holds A99 for these reasons, then Im glad. Seems only company that can do some testing is Olympus. E-M5 isnt perfect, but it has very few problems and not that big ones as these..

0 upvotes

I can ensure you almost 100% that you are not willing to pay the prices for perfect functioning SLR-cameras.
I am a software developer and I know too well the complexity level of these devices. Nobody will quarantee 100% bugfree/bugless functionality until we (consumers) are ready to pay for it. Even plane manufacturers (Boeing, Airbus) escape from bugs in critical partsof their systems. Why? The systems today are much complex and interact with a lot of other subsystems. Be happy that your Nikon will be fixed with a SW update. Canon's 5D III is almost the same but not that serious. With greater numbers of testers the possible misses become revealed :-)

2 upvotes

Just use a Nikon FM3a, it never goes wrong.

2 upvotes

Such hyperbole, extreme views, and misinformation used to be the domain of political pundits. Based on many of the comments here, it's sad to see that it has come down to camera fans. Do we really need a partisan divide based on camera brands?

9 upvotes

Apparently we do. I am astonished at the level of bickering, nasty comments, mean-spirited competitiveness and oneupsmanship associated with camera blogs! Can't we disagree more respectfully? it's really like watching Red Sox and Yankee fans or Real Madrid and Barcelona fans go at each other. And this is about cameras and photography!! Jeez. Come on guys!! And does anyone believe that this kind of discourse helps improve the field . . . or our experience in it?

1 upvote

Sticky tape appears to be the solution. Stick it over the histogram, problem solved. When you've finished with the tape, pass it over here and I'll stop the light coming in my camera :>

10 upvotes

Many are complaining about the out of focus on the left side of the photos too, and that includ mine, how come they didn’t mention anything about it :((.....Hurry Nikon your loyal customers should get at least a clarification about said issue.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

3 upvotes

BS, period.

0 upvotes

I call bs. If your sensor is misaligned send it back for a replacement. If a distant horizon is sharp across the frame at hyperfocal then your camera is fine.

0 upvotes

Like a trolly fan Nikon boy used to say every minute: "Oh, yes this a Nikon revolution...".

But aside the ironic comments the problem should get a solution briefly; good luck, Nikki.

4 upvotes

This is why I am waiting until there are plenty out in the field and the firmware has been upgraded. Every new camera has issues, or perceived issues, some I remember being Blinking Green Light of Death (BGLOD), excessive moire, and back focusing.

0 upvotes

no, youre waiting because there's none out there to buy and the waiting list is 6 months long

Comment edited 13 seconds after posting

11 upvotes

Not EVERY camera. Both my D50 and D300 were perfect, not even a SINGLE firmware was issued at any time.
No issues whatsoever. Probably, at that time there was less pressure to launch new cameras...

1 upvote

My D3 had zero issues.

0 upvotes

PDN = Photo District News the major trade publication of working photographers in the US and world wide.

2 upvotes

see, thats what you get when you make a review not a preview ;) whats this PDN ? never heard of that

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

There are huge computers in modern cameras. These computers have operating systems and applications just like your home computer. When a new operating system for Apple, Windows or Linux is released, we can expect a few crashes here and there until it gets ironed out. It's fairly normal. Even with huge beta periods and a lot of testing, computer bugs crop up after release. Nobody likes it, especially the releasing company. No matter how un-rushed you are to market, it happens.

There are two types of errors; syntactical and logical. Syntax errors are usually all caught in beta and other testing. This is where you made a grammatical error in your coding. A logical error is much harder to find. It will only crop up when that logic is tested. It might mean a series of events simultaneously triggering another series of events where something in the middle tried to divide by zero.

Finding these bugs is not that hard and pretty trivial to repair. I'd buy one today without issue.

7 upvotes

Operating systems are designed to be able to run on many thousands (millions) of hardware combinations with drivers and software designed by many different companies. This is not like a computer because the camera company designed the hardware, operating system and firmware. They are selling the complete package, unlike Microsoft Windows which is merely the software piece. This is simply a case of failure to do adequate testing of a final product.

I'd also argue it is barely acceptable for operating systems on computers to be so buggy but at least they can blame bad drivers and hardware that they have no control over.

4 upvotes

I don't think many people are aware of the complexity of a modern camera like the D800.

It is not just a single CPU it is a network of several CPUs, so it is like a complete network of computers within the camera that are "talking" together.

All in all very complex setup linked together with mechanical components that require perfect timing. I think the Nikon F4 which is a film camera has something like 5 CPUs. Don't know about the d800, but it is surely much more complex than the old f4.

With the increasing complexity I don't think it is possible to cover every scenario in the testing if the camera is ever going to reach the market.

2 upvotes

Aren't these cameras $3000+? Aren't we paying for increased complexity? That's not a valid excuse.

4 upvotes

tkbslc, Cars cost how many tens of thousand of dollars and they still are delivered with problems. It is a fact of life that products based on multiple microprocessors operating together will have bugs. The number of possible combinations of situations is huge, testing all is extremely difficult if not impossible. If you think you can do it I would like to see how you do. This is a problem that will be fixed.

3 upvotes

tkbslc, if you look at the history of both photography and computing, the fact is that if you are paying $3000 for one of today's pro SLRs, it is absolutely astounding that you can have that kind of power for that little money.

The surprise isn't that you have problems like this. The surprise is that these exceedingly complex devices work as well as they do.

3 upvotes

Now I know why camera companies don't try to get it right the first go 'round. Half their customers are eager and willing to beta test their products with low expectations.

I'd be upset if my car had problems too. I expect to get at least a few years out of it before that happens and if I had problems from the start I wouldn't buy that brand again for a LONG time. I don't see why you guys are so understanding and accommodating of corner cutting quality degradation.

And yes, the new tech is quite amazing. But it's not really new tech until it works. Ironically there weren't any recalls on the Nikon D5000 and Canon Rebel lines

2 upvotes

I think for starters, some don't know what an operating system is. They can be fairly trivial all the way to very complex. Your camera's computer has an OS. As others have mentioned, it is not so simplistic as a simple systems level OS designed for an assembly line. There are literally millions of possibilities for input and output. There is no way to beta test all variations. That's why problems can creep up years after release. I'm not putting down the folks that don't understand this. Just trying to explain. Someone has to try to break something in beta in order to find a problem. If nobody thinks of that way to break it, it won't be discovered. Simple as that.

But, that's why we call it "Software." Fixing it is trivial. It's designed to be replaced. It's designed to be fixed. It's designed to be able to add features later when you think of them. It's not like a design mistake like a light leak or white orb creating sensors. It's SOFTware. Software gets updated all the time.

0 upvotes

Just a small correction: Syntax errors do not require testing and they don't reach beta releases. They are simply caught by compilers. Logical errors do require extensive testing in every possible combination of conditions. Sometimes it is impossible for the development team to cover all possible conditions on their tests, that's why they make beta releases.

3 upvotes

I couldn't agree more Graybalanced. Both the software and hardware in a high end DSLR are both so complicated, it speaks to the kind of effort put into testing that there aren't more problems. Expecting no problems in a new system (and that even extensive testing will or should catch all issues) just isn't realistic.

0 upvotes

Talk about a SOAP. This is it. Great stuff. ;-)

0 upvotes


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