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Sigma DP series reinvented as DP1M and DP2M with 15MPx3 sensor from SD1

Feb 8, 2012 at 07:00:00 GMT

CAMERA NEWS SIGMA

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Sigma has totally reinvented its DP series of large sensor compacts with the DP1 Merrill and DP2 Merrill. The DP Merrill models are named after Dick Merrill, inventor of the Foveon sensor and include the most recent version of the technology - the 15x3MP APS-C sensor first seen in Sigma's SD1. Because the Merrill cameras feature full APS-C sensors, they also feature totally redesigned lenses, with the DP1M including a 19mm F2.8 lens to offer a 28mm equivalent field of view and the DP2M having a 30mm F2.8 lens to give a 45mm equivalent field-of-view.

Both camera's lenses (which may sound familiar in the light of the company's Digital Neo announcements) include Sigma's Fluorite-like 'FLD' glass elements. They also both include substantially redesigned bodies that incorporate high-resolution 920k dot LCDs. The controls have also been updated and the cameras look smarter as a result. Having been first-to-market with a large sensor, prime lens compact, it must have been hard for Sigma to watch the success of Fujifilm's X100. We haven't had a chance to see the Merrills in-person yet but we hold out hope that the high-res sensor and updates will make the DP series competitive again. There is also no detail on pricing yet.

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Press Release:

Sigma Corporation announces next-generation compact cameras named in honor of Foveon innovator

DP1 Merrill and DP2 Merrill now incorporate 46-megapixel, full-color image sensor

Ronkonkoma, NY, Feb. 8, 2012 – Sigma Corporation of America (www.sigmaphoto.com), a leading researcher, developer, manufacturer and service provider for some of the world's most impressive lines of lenses, cameras and flashes, today announced the new Merrill series of digital cameras with the introduction of the DP1 Merrill and DP2 Merrill. The Merrill series is named in honor of Richard “Dick” Merrill, the co-creator of the Foveon X3 Direct Image Sensor technology that powers Sigma’s unique lineup of cameras.

These upgraded, high resolution, fixed lens compact digital cameras now incorporate the same APS-C sized 46-megapixel X3 image sensor found in the company’s flagship SD1 SLR, now also known as the Sigma SD1 Merrill. This name change not only pays homage to Merrill, but it also reflects new production efficiencies that will result in a substantial reduction in the camera’s market price starting next month.

Merrill (1949-2008) was a brilliant engineer, talented photographer and Foveon co-founder. He tapped into his passion for electronics to build an innovative pixel structure that uniquely demonstrated the ability to capture RGB information in each pixel location. This revolutionary discovery led the Foveon team to the development of the X3 Direct Image Sensor and, ultimately, to the creation of some of the most vibrantly colored and detailed imagery the photography industry has ever seen. Sigma acquired Foveon in late 2008.

“This revolutionary image capture system reflects both the artistic and technological sides of Merrill’s personality,” said Kazuto Yamaki, CEO of Sigma Corporation. “As an expression of Sigma’s passion for photography and in honor of Dick Merrill’s genius, we have named the latest generation of the Foveon X3 Direct Image Sensor the Foveon Merrill.”

The Sigma DP1 Merrill and DP2 Merrill each boast exclusively-designed, high-performance telecentric fixed lenses. The DP1 Merrill features a wide, 19mm F2.8 lens, which is the equivalent to a 28mm lens on a 35mm SLR camera. The DP2 Merrill, however, offers a 30mm F2.8 lens, which is the equivalent to a 45mm lens on a 35mm camera. Both cameras are compact and lightweight, and feature Sigma’s own “F” Low Dispersion (FLD) glass, which performs like fluorite glass and significantly improves lens performance, as well as Super Multi Layer Coating to reduce flare and ghosting. With the 46-megapixel, full-color Foveon X3 Direct Image Sensor, the new DP cameras capture all primary RGB colors at each pixel location with three layers, which results in incredibly detailed images with a three-dimensional feel.

The Sigma DP Merrill cameras also include the following features:

A dual, three-layer responsive ultimate (TRUE II) engine now incorporates two TRUE II processors to improve the processing speed and overall quality of the final image. Sigma’s unique image-processing algorithm also provides high-resolution power and reproduces high-definition images with richly graduated tones that offer a three-dimensional feel.
RAW and JPEG format recording retains the full image detail of the utmost quality captured through the direct image sensor, as well as a JPEG recording format for convenience. The RAW data format provides pure data for high-resolution images, and uses lossless compression for more compact, yet uncompromised, data files. The RAW data format of the DP Merrill series keep brightness and color data in a 1:1 ratio without relying on interpolation. When the image is processed in Sigma Photo Pro, it will preserve the balance of the natural data for the best photos with the best image quality.
Sigma Photo Pro processing software converts RAW data quickly and easily. It incorporates functions such as a loupe, exposure picker, print, JPEG conversion, and batch white balance settings.
Manual focus is available for use when autofocus or focus-lock is not desired.
An advanced user interface is complete with a custom Quick Set (QS) menu and the metallic command dial to improve usability. The diaphragm, shutter speed and menu can be changed quickly using the command dial. The QS menu consists of the most commonly used functions and can be easily displayed by pressing the QS button, allowing photographers to change the menu content and the order depending on preferences.
A large, highly visible three-inch TFT color LCD monitor ensures great visibility even outdoors in the daytime. This approximately 920,000 pixel resolution LCD monitor benefits from a wide viewing angle, making it easy to capture details and check focusing and composition.
A hot shoe allows the use of the dedicated external flashgun EF-140 DG (optional) as well as Sigma electronic flashguns for SD series such as EF-610 DG Super (optional) and EF-610 DG ST (optional).
Movie mode enables movie recording with VGA (640×480) size, with 30 shooting frames per second.

Pricing and availability of the Sigma DP1 Merrill and DP2 Merrill are pending.

To locate an authorized Sigma dealer nearest to you, visit www.sigmaphoto.com/where/where.asp. For information about Sigma Corporation of America, visit www.sigmaphoto.com.

Sigma DP1 Merrill and DP2 Merrill specifications

	Sigma DP1 Merrill	Sigma DP2 Merrill
Body type
Body type	Large sensor compact
Sensor
Effective pixels	15.4 megapixels
Sensor photo detectors	46.0 megapixels
Sensor size	APS-C (24 x 16 mm)
Sensor type	CMOS (Foveon X3)
Processor	Dual TRUE II engine
Image
Image stabilization	Unknown
Uncompressed format	RAW
Optics & Focus
Focal length (equiv.)		50 mm
Optical zoom		1×
Manual focus	Yes
Lens mount	None
Screen / viewfinder
Articulated LCD	Fixed
Screen dots	920,000
Viewfinder type	None
Photography features
Maximum aperture	F2.8
External flash	Yes (via hot-shoe)
Videography features
Format	Motion JPEG
Microphone	Mono
Speaker	Mono
Videography notes	640 x 480 (30 fps)
Connectivity
USB	USB 2.0 (480 Mbit/sec)
Physical
Battery	Battery Pack
Weight (inc. batteries)	330 g (0.73 lb / 11.64 oz)
Dimensions	122 x 67 x 64 mm (4.8 x 2.64 x 2.52″)	122 x 67 x 59 mm (4.8 x 2.64 x 2.32″)
Other features
GPS	None

Additional images


Sigma DP1 Merrill

Sigma DP2 Merrill

Sigma DP1M

Sigma DP1 Merrill

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Sigma DP2 Merrill

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Comments

Total comments: 243

I love this camera (lucky owner), because the picture is incredibly good.
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/foveon-sigma

1 upvote

The Luminous Landscape review says it all. Nothing even remotely near the image quality for the price. Very few with better image quality period. High praise for Sigma.

0 upvotes

There is a review of the DP2 Merrill at ePHOTOzine now.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/sigma-dp2-merrill-camera-review-19831

0 upvotes

when will this be released??

1 upvote

I'm hoping these two DP cameras are a fairly inexpensive way to get access to the outstanding IQ of the SD1. Just to see what these new Merrill cameras are potentially capable of I downloaded some SD1 Sample Images from Sigma's website and the clean, artifact free images are really superb.

These SD1 sample images, viewed full-size, are just amazing.

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/sd1-photo-gallery/khagiwara/index.html

Of course portraits like these were made with the 85 1.4 EX, but I guess you can't have everything.

0 upvotes

You're probably looking at $800-$1000...

0 upvotes

what reason to cancel the build-in flash? why still missing the AF assist lamp? :(

0 upvotes

This camera sounds great spec-wise, and I've always been very intrigued by the Foveon sensor. But I think, at least in part, the reason these cameras (their predecessors at least) haven't sold as well as the likes of the Fuji X100 is the styling - it's very stark, and there's no hand grip. A lot of people love the retro styling of the rangefinder-style cameras like the X100.

1 upvote

Matter of taste. I absolutely dig the looks of the camera. Very clean industrial design.

1 upvote

Not fair how it said 15x3 MP
for each color 15MP R and 15MP G and 15MP B

While the 36MP D800 RGGB should be at least divide by 3 to be 12MP for each channel or even less because the G is twice in a row

Sigma should said as 45MP in the title

not stressing as 3 x 15MP

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

2 upvotes

They do that in an effort to not mislead, but in actuality, people who use them see how fine the detail is in their photos, and they understand why Sigma does what they do. It is really no comparison to put the new 46/48 megapixel Foveon sensor up against a CFA sensor with 15 or 16 megapixels, because it just blows away the "normal" sensors (the CFA sensors), when comparing the 14.7 megapixel images from the new Sigma cameras with their amazing Foveon sensors against any of the latest 15 or 16 megapixel cameras. It would be interesting to see a comparison of Nikon D7000 images against SD1 Merrill photos shot with an identical lens (maybe the Sigma 70mm macro). Unfortunately it seems nobody has done this. I have compared Sony A77 photos against similar photos from the new Sigma SD1, and the Sony does pretty well, but not as good as the Sigma at low ISO settings from ISO 100 to ISO 800. I compared similar Nikon D800 shots, but with different lenses I could not tell which is better.

0 upvotes

I'm very happy to hear about this update! Only a few comments and suggestion:

1. Make the electrical mechanics more reliable
(My dp1 died after 2 years, the usual mechanical failure and it cost as much as buying a new camera to repair it!)

2. Some manual focus assist system
(The same way sony NEX series has incorporated in their system, it would be awesome to have that on a sigma)

3. Make the lens brighter!
(2.8? Come on sigma, that's so long ago, we want sweet bokeh go for a least 1.8-2.0)

If you're not going to make m 4/3 camera then at least give yourself some competing edge with very fast integrated lens!

I don't care about videos, this is a still camera so make it the best it can be. Learn from Apple. Good user friendly interface and hardware to software integration. We know you don't have the resource as other manufacturer but you have a great technology and the implementation/design is just as important.

0 upvotes

Any information on ISO range?

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting

1 upvote

Yes. According to http://www.dslrmagazine.com/digital/camaras-compactas-digitales/novedades-sigma-cp-2012.html the ISO Range of the Sigma DP1 and DP2 Merrill extends from ISO 100-6400. Unfortunately there is no ISO 50. Very unfortunate... since ISO 50 always gives me the BEST results when using the 'old' DP-series...

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 13 minutes after posting

1 upvote

My understanding is that the way the new sensor works iso 100 is basically equivalent of the old iso 50 (including decreased headroom for highlights), 200 the old iso 100 and so on

0 upvotes

Dear Mr Yamaki Jnr

You can have a clear mission statement please.

"To bring SD1 sensor to as many photographers as possible."

So photographers can see for themselves the quality of SD1 sensor from photos they have taken.
The only way to do this is to make SD1 1.5x crop into m43.
Then with already existing adapters photographers can use their legacy lenses.
Please the camera must be easy to use as eg OLympus OMD EM5.

0 upvotes

The already said back a year ago that they'll be bringing out a mirrorless system. Probably not m4/3 though. The APS-C-Foveon is fine anyways...

1 upvote

Oh ! Aps-c mirrorles.

If it is Sigma mount how can photographers put their favorite lenses on it to see the quality of the SD1 sensor.

Dear Mr Yamaki
the only way to have a Sigma genesis
is mirrorless m43

Only then can many photographers see the quality of the SD1 sensor.
Thus also honoring even more Dick Merrill and the Yamaki San Snr.

0 upvotes

I do not think Adorama messed up in announcing the pricing. Hard to believe Sigma will find it in themselves to price it under $ 1500 ever...

0 upvotes

I bought a used DP1 on a lark and have been just amazed at how good the landscape shots are. Even tho they are only 4.6MP, they are as good as the 12MP ones on my EP-1. When I saw this announcement, a thought struck me: The SD-1 will always be eclipsed by FullFrame DSLRs and medium format, but the DPxM Sigmas will have no such cpmpetition. Nobody is likely to make a pocketable FullFrame sensor camera due to the size of a lens that delivers even light to the corners of the sensor and a pocketable medium format is obviously impossible. Therefore, the DPxM camers with the new 15MP foveon will have the best IQ of any of the large sensor compacts by a wide margin. Only the Fuji X-Pro 1 can come close. If Sigma put R&D priority into refining the DP series (interchangable lenses, faster shot to shot times and focusing, etc), they could dominate this segment of the camera market. I see a real opportunity for Sigma here.

3 upvotes

Hey Mr Yamaki Jnr you doing fab already.
Please make M43 interchangeable (evf, swivel screen, fine af) you already make two fine m43 lenses.
It would make m43 IQ to a whole new level and people will love its IQ seeing a sensor showing the best of their favorite legacy lenses.

It would be like a Sigma genesis.

0 upvotes

For sure I would love to use all my Oly 4/3 and, especially, M4/3 lenses on a DP body. However....the 4/3 system was the first digital system without 35mm film legacy lenses to accomodate. The 4/3 lenses were thus optimized for the area of the 4/3 sensor. They probably won't light the corners of the much larger Sigma sensor. By "won't light", I don't mean a darker image in the corners as one gets with some legacy film lenses. I mean no image at all in the corners. This problem won't apply to Sigma lenses that are designed for Canikon sensors and then remounted by Sigma to 4/3, and it may not apply to all Oly or PanaLeica lenses at all focal lengths, but it has to be considered and compensated for somehow before we get to use our Oly lenses to their fullest potential on a DP body.

0 upvotes

I wouldn't mind putting up with some vignetting to have a sigma sensor on m4/3

0 upvotes

Watch those gear changes! I'd go a bit further, because you will remember folding 6x9cm cameras with high quality lenses-pocketable: there are still a few around, but they have become jumbo-sized. I have an ancient Voigtlander Bessa, and it occurs to me that a full-frame sensor, or even a 6x9cm sensor could , if produced fit into a folding camera. With enough resolution, it can be argued that a single fixed lens is all that anyone needs, because resolution on a big enough sensor will mean that cropping rather than zooming will become the order of the day.
The lens has to be extremely sharp into the corners, so they will find a means of bracing the bellows such that the optics are parallel to the sensor. Envisage a rising front machine in which distortions resulting from perspective are eradicated- very easy to do with a wide-angle lens that has little or no inherent distortion, shutter in lens. I am certain they will be produced.

0 upvotes

I'm really happy to hear this news.
I love my DP2, but the focal length is bit narrow. DP1 has wider angle, but the lens is slow. I prefer 35mm equiv focal length, but 28 is also OK to me. Now new DP got 28mm and faster lens, furthermore, new foveon which has incredible resolution.
The only thing I'm concerning is the file size. The size of SPP file is 50M, you may need larger HDD to keep all the pictures.

0 upvotes

it looks like twisting the lense ring when in manual focus mode.

1 upvote

Nice that the 28mm version is getting a faster lens, but would have been good to have f2 on the 45mm...

1 upvote

Sigma should get some other company to buy their sensor en put it in a decent camera. Pentax maybe or Fuji (Canon is way too conservative and Nikon too, Sony make their own).

0 upvotes

I agree, but still I'm happy with sigma. They only makes the camera I like

0 upvotes

Its only Sigma Technology because they bought it! All other manufacturers could have bought into the technology but they didn't. WHY NOT? Speculating, it could be, Pride, Cost, contracts that are in place, sharing of current Technology etc. I do know that Sigma bear the huge costs of going this path, whereas all other manufacturers benefit from sharing some of the burden of development of the currently used sensor technologies, This includes the software side of raw processing etc

0 upvotes

Actually, lets all applaud a company that is willing to jump in to the fast flowing stream and swim against the current. If you really think about it, only a company like Sigma was probably willing to do it. If u have had any dealings with the large Japanese corporations that are the leaders in the Camera game, you may understand this. Remember Sigma still makes all of its lenses in Japan, Do Canon or Nikon? Sigma are small, and hence get used to the fovean chip living in Quirky camera's built by a small company with a minuscule budget compared to a N or C. Alternatively we can drown in what these forums seem to thrive on, I want, Why didn't they, It should have had, They are stupid etc, etc etc.

4 upvotes

If Sigma wants to play in the high-end P&S segment, their cameras need to not look like bland generic boxes like the one above. They clearly haven't learned from the success of Fujifilm's X10 and X100.

2 upvotes

I disagree Reg. I think the minimal, rectilinear, mostly black design is right in line with the others in this segment. My design criticism of this is that the lens being mounted on the left looks more like a Sony. The Sigma P&S's looked better in earlier versions when the lens was in the center. In general, while I'm drawn to the mildly retro/nostalgic designs, I'd rather see all new classics that speak to the different design potential due to different camera tech. Which means I had camera designs like that fuji x100. It's nothing but a copy of old styles. At least this sigma and the fuji's released since then, are styled in a Cartier-Bresson way while embracing some subtle modern twists. I guess my point is, how do you see this design as really any different from the s90-s95 or fuji x10, etc?

5 upvotes

fully agree. sigma's aesthetics are fine or even great. the problem lies with their interface, usability, and hardware reliability/functionality other than the sensor and lens. such a pity because apparently they excel in two very important areas - sensor/lens but the usability is terrible.

0 upvotes

By choosing the minimal, simple rectangular design, sigma got advantages in weight and size. I like my DP2 than Fuji X100, simply because it is smaller, lighter and cheaper. I love sigma. They makes us happy.

2 upvotes

Well, I guess it just goes to show you that there are many different tastes when it comes to cameras. Personally, I like clearly marked mechanical knobs and dials, made of metal, and I prefer zooming by turning a mechanical lens ring (the Sigma may have this latter feature, I don't know). I want an all metal body and, ideally, a distinctive appearance. I don't consider these things "retro", although I realize they were common in the 1970s and 1980s. To me, they're just good design. To each their own, however.

1 upvote

With all due respect, this is pure Steve Jobs. The people who are willing to pay what these cameras will cost and deal with the inevitable quirks (problems) that come with Sigma cameras are looking for something more than stylishness. Heck, these cameras don't even have zoom lenses.

0 upvotes

"reflects new production efficiencies... will result in a substantial reduction in the camera’s market price..." or better said "massive price reduction because SD1 doesn't sell as expected" means someone's woken up to get the Foveon investment back. Hope the DPs will have better IQ than the horrible SD1.

3 upvotes

Totally agree.

0 upvotes

gimme back the build-in flash!
did Sigma cancel it?

0 upvotes

I'm very surprised, and very pleased, that Sigma is coming out with compact cameras that have their new large sensor so soon. I thought they moved more slowly than this. If it isn't too expensive, I'll get one!

0 upvotes

Wow, I take my hat to you Sigma. Let's the battle begin! Predict that the super compact cameras (fixed lens) will have a big evolution during from now, at the end of many years of absence of products that could attract the attention of more advanced photographers. Good move and impact Sigma, lets see the IQ...

1 upvote

Only VGA video? Shame.

2 upvotes

Well, if you want to buy a camcorder... Of course: filming in full HD would be nice. On the other hand: this is not a type of camera that suits the average customer. It's a typical camera, with a typical sensor. Built for the serious landscape / portrait photographer. If Sigma keeps improving the sensor in favour of image-quality, it's fine with me. I can buy a -say nikon p300- for filming HD.

2 upvotes

> Built for the serious landscape / portrait photographer

Serious portrait photographer? With 28mm and 45mm equiv lenses? Right...

It could be nice for street photography, though, unless IQ starts breaking down at 800 ISO.

0 upvotes

I guess they MAY have been able to implement HD (or even Full HD) video of some sort. It, however, may have been of VERY bad quality: because of the slow reading speed of the sensor, they in no way could have used pixel binning, unlike, say, the Pana GH2. The results are known for lower-end Canon DSLR's: awful moire.

0 upvotes

Foveon pioneered binning. The reason the video is VGA is that it's a side effect of the live view feed, no more, no less.

0 upvotes

The design is a nice evolution, really clean looking. Now they should replace the EF-140 flash with something that lays flat when not in use.

1 upvote

Did the manual focus wheel get deleted? :0(

0 upvotes

Focussing with the lens-ring.

3 upvotes

Good to see the DP1 Merril has F2.8, the previous model had F4, so I went for the DP2 instead.

Unfortunately still no EVF and I don't like the optical viewfinder as you then get the parallax effect. Solution is to buy an LCDVF from Kinotehnik, this is now possible because of the detailed 3 inch display.

So great to see the SD1 sensor come in such a small package!

0 upvotes

Indeed: a viewfinder. Such a class-product, missing such an elementairy thing....

0 upvotes

I imagine these babies will help them recoupe the cost on the sensor. Look like nice basic cameras, but would it have killed them to make it interchangeable lens? Sigma could make a pretty sweet mirrorless camera.

0 upvotes

I still wish someone other than Sigma had taken on Foveon sensors. Tremendous potential but probably not with Sigma behind it. I still use the DP1 and it doesn't need any improvments in sharpness, detail or lens quality. But green corners, magenta blotches, etc are a real drag. And no, I did not get a bad one.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 36 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

...And you can use only Sigma lenses on these bodies, no matter how good these bodies are. To be honest, I have nothing against Sigma lenses as I use a lot of them on both Nikon and EOS cameras (and of some I can only dream), but would not like Sigma lenses as my only choice. Even if all are excellent.

0 upvotes

@nemark--not being cheeky, but what other lens would you put on a fixed lens camera? Just askin', you know.

0 upvotes

It remains to be seen how compact this 'compact' camera is. The smaller the better, for my money. But isn't the whole purpose of having a compact camera compromised by designing it for interchangeable lenses, rather than a fixed zoom? Having to tote one or two extra lenses lessens the pocketability factor, no?

0 upvotes

John D., I presume we are talking in this thread about Foveon sensors in Sigma cameras generally ("I still wish someone other than Sigma had taken on Foveon sensors."), no matter interchangeable lenses or not, and that's why my comment.

0 upvotes

Oh my. I had a DP1 in the past and grew frustrated with the camera - very slow on almost everything shooting related (start-up, AF, write times etc)........ but the problem doesn't end there, try using their software to edit RAW files and you will be pulling your hair from frustration.

The image quality was great at base ISO though. Excellent in-fact albeit the magenta shift.

....... was going to try the upgraded versions but got lured by the m/43 and NEX format.

0 upvotes

Well, this new sensor (46 MP) is another league.... The amount of detail is astonishing (Sigma Sd1).

0 upvotes

I have a DP1 and DP2. The DP2 is considerably faster than the DP1 but still not in the same league as contemporary compact cameras. But at least the DP2 enables you to shoot more fluidly. The speed has gone up for subsequent models like the DP1s and DP1x, as well.

0 upvotes

Sigma SD1 no AA filter
Leica M9 no AA filter
Nikon D800E no AA filter.
Is it the right way?

1 upvote

Not necessarily, and the D800E still has one, but it has another filter to counteract its effects. Moire can be deadly, and getting rid of it is well worth the very slight loss in sharpness. I've looked at samples from each of the new Nikon bodies and see very little difference.

0 upvotes

Fuji X pro-1 no AA filter.

0 upvotes

I would probably pay $700-$800 for each of these cams.
Any higher and I'd be less excited.

Comment edited 10 seconds after posting

1 upvote

Given the list price on the X100 is $1200, it's pretty optimistic to expect it to be much lower than that.

0 upvotes

The X100 has a hybrid OVF and a F2.0 lens though. Build quality is probably a lot better on the X100 too.

Pricing these above an X100 means they won't sell many of them.

Sigma products tend to drop in price a lot. I can see myself picking up one of these in a year or two after there have been some significant price drops.

0 upvotes

Yes, but the sensor is making the difference. The pictures with foveon 46Mp are better than full-frame Leica, in my opinion.....

0 upvotes

Depending on test results, I'd buy one for at least the price of a X100 or Ricoh GXR plus aps-c module. It is unreasonable to expect these cameras, coming from a much smaller company, to cost less than comparable models from other companies.

0 upvotes

Oh,that would be nice around 700 to 800 but knowing Sigma, I feel it would start much higher than that. I feel it to be around $1000, and start to drop in price within the coming months to adjust with volume and demand.

0 upvotes

"The DP1M will be available in March for around $2,299. Pricing and availabiltiy of the DP2M will be announced." - Adorama; http://www.adorama.com/alc/news/Sigma-announces-DP1M-and-DP2M-with-15MP-Foveon-sensors

Edit: Just realised that that's the same price as the revised price for the SD1 - I imagine someone at Adorama has buggered up here.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

sure?
too expensive!!

0 upvotes

Someone messed up at Adorama for sure. That info has to do with the SD1. My wild guess is a price of 899-999 a piece and availability April-May.

1 upvote

I will buy it, after probably 1.5 years...

1 upvote

Adorama seems to have updated the page mentioned above already. It now says:
"Pricing and availability of the Sigma DP1 Merrill and DP2 Merrill are pending."

Comment edited 15 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

This is good news!))) Its never to late, you know! This what I have been waiting for. Im buying it!))

1 upvote

Sigma are really upping their game now ! This is really GREAT !!

0 upvotes

Breeak-even price no more $750 for each camera! ... otherwise we get angry!

1 upvote

Too late sigma, too late!! Where were you in 2010?

2 upvotes

My best guess based on SD1 pricing... both models will retail for $5000.

3 upvotes

you must have missed the other part of the sigma news ;)

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

No list price will be $5000. Street price will be $2500. 6 months later they will change the price to $100 and give everyone who paid $2500 a free optical viewfinder and maybe even a spare lens cap!

Comment edited 35 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

DaSigmaGuy

... wow, how many times can you contradict yourself in one post?

2 upvotes

don't worry he does that all the time :)

0 upvotes

he should be banned....

0 upvotes

Holy Macaroni! This is it for me! Never thought I see the day!)))

1 upvote

There is a pair of question marks in all this, and they are big ones...
did they hire good software developers this time?
will they relate upon consistent alpha tester?

1 upvote

It's obvious they're using the 19/2.8 and 30/2.8 which they're also marketing for m43 and NEX.

Looking at the dimensions, it doesn't seem the lenses are very deeply integrated into the body... Seems they could have engineered some kind of lens mount so you could swap one for the other without increasing size that much. That might have made for a much more exciting product, rather than forcing foveon fans to pick one and only one focal length, or buy two (likely very expensive) cameras.

Or better yet, put a NEX mount on there. I'm sure a lot more people would try such a camera if they could add it to an existing system and feel like their lenses could be reused on future bodies...

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting

1 upvote

I would buy a DP camera with a NEX mount in a flash.

0 upvotes

@ chadey_chad
".. wow, how many times can you contradict yourself in one post?"

Huh? Please point out where I have contradicted myself...

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

If they're going to be doing other mounts, I'd rather them do a Micro 4/3 Foveon camera...

0 upvotes

I'm a m4/3 user myself, so I'm also partial to that mount (and the better selection of lenses available for it). But with Sigma's sensor being APS-C format, m4/3 would not be appropriate.

0 upvotes

This camera will not be bought by casual users. It also won't be recommended by review sited to casual users, and in the end - was not made for casual users.
So, where is the viewfinder SIGMA?
And what about persuading people a bit that your new great product won't fail doe to bad designing decision? I own carcass of DP1, which failed during a trip, due to _unscrewed nut_ _inside_ the lens. I would call that a bad omen for a 1000€ camera.
What with Sigma Pro photo? That program is piece of junk, in which you can't even be sure when the colors are right, or sharpness turned off.

1 upvote

Very eager to handle one!

0 upvotes

I see that in the case of the 19mm lens, the aperture has grown by 1 stop to f/2.8, but man, did they have to make the lens that much larger? Here's a razor thin 40mm f/2.8 lens: http://www.dpreview.com/products/pentax/lenses/pentax_xs_40_2

Even the 30mm lens is larger, and its aperture is the same as the old one.

1 upvote

Except the older DP2 did not have a 30mm lens but a 24mm lens.

So no, the physical aperture is larger. And the new lens creates a larger image circle. That's not bad considering it's practicaly the same size.

If you can't appreciate this fine but please educate yourself before posting crap. :)

Comment edited 49 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

I think this is a no brainier. With the price drop of the SD1 the new p&S will be priced accordingly.

DP2M: $4999.99
DP1M: $6999.99

6 upvotes

At that price, I'll replace my old DP1 with one of each, I reckon ...!

1 upvote

compare this to the Canon Powershot S100

is this the new king of pocketcamera's?

0 upvotes

That lens isn't going in the same pockets as the S100.

1 upvote

What are you talking about - theres no way you can compare Canons point and shoot (as good as it is) to this. Me thinks you need to take a lesson in sensor types and sizes!

(and yes, I own amongst things a DP1 and an S95 ... again not that the two are remotely linked except for their smallish size and atmospheric price!)

0 upvotes

but it seems very compact, more compact then the NEX7 or the Fuji X100/X10. This Sigma seems almost as compact as the Canon S100, eventhough I cant see any dimensions comparison. For me the last king of pocketsize cameras with a big sensor is the Olympus MjuII which was a fullframe filmcamera! The S100 has such a small sensor that I have never considered one, but users rave about it. Hopefully this Sigma is a home-run.

How do you experience the difference between the two (DP1 and S95)?

0 upvotes

Well, the Sigma is (much) bigger than the S100 it seems
http://camerasize.com/compare/#292,140

more X10 size
http://camerasize.com/compare/#292,129

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

@ Auke B van der Weide

The S95/S100 is a point & shoot camera, albeit with a larger than average 1/1.7" sensor and f2 lens. It's a great camera for carrying around in your pocket, I love it, IMO the best P&S camera for its size (I preferred the Samsung EX1 but its considerably larger). I've taken great images with the Canon, although its zoom in low light leaves a lot to be desired! has some great features though.

You can't then compare it to the Sigma DP1/DP2, whose sensor is probably around the same size as a 4/3rds sensor, but being Fovean, the quality (I found) far superior. The Sigma DP1 I owned blew my Canon 450D images out the water! Thats not to say its a great camera ... its s*** at doing anything other than operating in decent light and on a tripod with nothing moving. For landscape and still life photography though, quality is awesome ... and all in such a small package. The price though ... wow ... might I suggest you eBay an older DP1 @ circa £150 & see for yourself.

1 upvote

Thanks for you answer Chadly

For landscape, travel and documentary photography I will rely on my D700&D3. But for snapshots I am looking for something small with decent quality at all iso-levels, like the S100, but with bigger sensor for better DOF. I was hoping this Sigma was a tad smaller though.

But then again if this sensor (and AF!) is is any good compared to NEX5n, X100, X10 or the new Canon G1X or Panasonic GX1 then I would be very interested. These cameras are all a bit bigger than the S100 though..... No, I guess the S100 is still the champion of pocketsize cameras :)

0 upvotes

@chadley_chad 4/3rd is about half FF size, DPxM APSC is about 1/1.5 FF size. This taken to the square for the area and compared, the Sigma sensor has almost double as much area as 4/3rd...

0 upvotes

That explains why the images are so bloody good!

For purely tight pocket work, nothing will beat the S95/100 .... But this new sigma MAY give the NEX a run for its money due to the fact Sony can't even offer a decent lens range!

0 upvotes

Well there is more to life than the size of the sensor...
With mirrorless cameras AF accuracy, speed and high ISO capabilities are just as important. Hopefully Sigma didnt forget about that.

0 upvotes

For now, the Nikon 1 is very much underestimated
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1058&thread=40312311

0 upvotes

I don´t get it. A mega capable sensor in a point and shoot toy. Too bad. I've said it about some other cams too, but if they had added a true swivel flipscreen these cams would sell in droves.

0 upvotes

It's a camera for people who appreciate large sensors and prime lenses. Similar to the old film Ricoh GR1.

0 upvotes

Yes, you don't get... a flip screen on this camera would be ridiculous.

0 upvotes

Yes, you don't get it!

Try actually using a Sigma DP1 or DP2 .... and then one of the non APS-C sized toy camera point & shoots with the screen type you mention.

Shesh, I wish people actually knew what they were talking about before posting nonsense!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 56 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

what this cam needs is a decent built in ovf and FOR SURE no swivel screen. not every small camera has to be a toy consumer p&s

but it has a prime lens, so you can mount any fitting ovf you want .. its still the most exciting camera news for a long time (besides d4/800 of course"

0 upvotes

Good grief!

Why do people constantly say ' it needs this and it needs that'. If it had those things it wouldn't be the camera it was now would it!!!

If the Sigma had an OVF then it wouldn't be as it is now (which makes it so tempting) ... think about it ... and if it had an OVF, then no doubt everyone would say its a shame it came without.

Shesh! If you want a camera with an OVF, buy something else, if you want another P&S sized camera with a Fovean sensor don't bother, there isn't one, this is it!

1 upvote

Why a swivel screen? @wootpile: you know the difference between a point and shoot camera and a prime-camera?
You know anything about sensors and sizes? If not:read and learn before posting...

0 upvotes

Look, like the SD1, these cameras are unlikely to be able to shoot above about 640ASA.

Sigma needs to do something about the terrible extraction software; it's both slow and then there's the big banding problem.

Adobe Camera RAW will open files from the DP2x; that software sure is faster, and it's easier to control colour. Sigma needs to work with Adobe here on this SD1 based camera.

0 upvotes

But ACR does'nt work properly with Sigma RAW files...Only SPP should be used to process them as it gives the best results.
PS should then be used to make any further tweaks you need on the resulting Tiffs or Jpegs.

1 upvote

@DaSigmaGuy pls read the OP again and you will discover your answer is somehow off... HowAboutRAW was completely aware that ACR does not process DPxM RAWs, but he was talking about the predecessor DPx...

0 upvotes

Best news I've heard all year. Deep down inside.. I had hope.
The X100 is no longer a contender for me.

Big fevon in a small package. Dreams do come true.

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

f2.8 has'nt been considered fast since the fifties!

2 upvotes

Seriously, if your looking for the best compact camera camera currently available, get the Sony NEX-7...It actually has an interchangable lens mount so you wont be stuck with a single fixed FL slow prime. In lab tests its been proved that the NEX-7 has the same resolution as the sensor in the SD1 and the new DPM's, but it has MUCH better high ISO performance, its much faster to use, both from startup and with its amazing 10 fps. It also has a substantially bigger buffer than you would get in a DPM, its LCD screen has a much higher resolution than the screen in the DPM's and its also articulated....It also offers stunning full HD 1080P video, with stereo audio noless...Trust me, you will be lucky to get low-res 640x480 VGA video and mono audio with a DPM.
The NEX-7 is currently less than a grand in the UK...I would expect either of the DPM's to cost at least that, but probably more...So what are you waiting for?...Get the NEX-7, now!

1 upvote

Except the NEX-7 is not a compact camera once you mount a lens.

4 upvotes

"f2.8 has'nt been considered fast since the fifties!"

You know what was considered really fast in the 50s? ISO400.

2 upvotes

"f2.8 hasn't been considered fast since the fifties!..."

actually any cmos sensor can't read any light further than that... dunno if foveon is different in this regard.
So if you take into consideration focal length too, f 2.8 is simply perfectly reasoneable...

1 upvote

@ DaSigmaGuy

I'll presume you've never owned a number of different camera's for different purposes, including a Sigma DP1 or DP2.

Should you have owned a DP1/DP2 and a NEX-5N like myself (granted not a 7 but similar), you'd know they are like chalk and cheese and aimed for entirely different markets. The images produced on my DP2 (IMO) blow those produced by my NEX out of the water (theres just something about that Fovean sensor!) despite the fact its a pig to use along with all it's other bad points.

Also, not everyone needs fast interchangeable lenses (at exorbitant prices Sony!) ... and its not always about lens speed, its also about quality and the ability of the fixed lens and sensor to work together (as the Sigma's do well).

I'm excited about this camera and its good to see Sigma are finally improving its spec to make it a contender in todays market. It'll never replace anything like a NEX (and it'll still cost a bomb), but people will buy it!

1 upvote

@dasigmaguy: ... and buy a nex made buy a company specialized in TVs and walkman ... yeah ... for sure hahahahahaha

@ thebees: so my nikkor f/1.2 isnt working on my cmos equipped d700? oh my god! why didnt you tell me earlier

i would never ever buy a lens slower than f/2.8 which means 2.8 is allready too slow, except for uww or macro, even my 135mm lens is a faster then that sigma lens

0 upvotes

DaSigmaguy isn't so Sigma...

4 upvotes

@ inevitable crafts studio

In case you didn't realise, the quality and popularity of the NEX (amongst its other DSLR products) DOES make Sony a camera specialist ... and being the best at walkmans and TV's isn't a bad thing is it (despite the fact I think Panasonic make better TV's ... and hey, don't they make camera's too!)

Glad you'd never buy a slower than f2.8 lens, good for you, but some people would, some people don't need a faster lens and some people are good enough to take a decent picture without anything faster. Each to their own I guess, but to imply its not worthwhile buying anything slower than f2.8 is (IMO) purely camera snobbery and a purely proof (again IMO) that you don't have the skills to shoot with a variety of equipment.

Your 135mm lens might be faster, but speed doth not make a quality image (especially if you've got your f1.2 135mm (or whatever) stuck on a dog of a body and operated by nonce!

:o)

0 upvotes

I cannot agree more with u whtchocla7e

0 upvotes

@dasigmaguy:

I have evaluated the NEX-7, and it has a serious (software) drawback: the maximum range for bracketing is a measly 0.7EV. So for any HDR photos (which I like to do), you are limited to the built-in jpg HDR which is pitiful.

0 upvotes

I liked my DP1 but 2.8 for a prime is not a fast lens anymore in 2012

0 upvotes

A faster lens equals more weight and more cost.

Do you think that the buying public would pay $1000-$1200 for this body with an F/2.0 lens?

1 upvote

f2.8 has'nt been considered fast since the fifties!
And for HowAboutRaw...Neither of the new DPM's should have had a fixed lens at all. EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder/Interchangable Lens) cameras are now where its at and interchangable lens mounts have become a standard design feature of virtually all new compact cameras...If the DPM's had an interchangable lens mount they would have been worth paying a lot more for than they are now because it would open up the use of rmuch faster non-Sigma lenses...Of course, the reason they dont have an interchangable mount is for that exact same reason...Users would no longer have to purchase lenses from Sigma, so just like Sigma, they prefer to trap you into using Sigma glass only.

Comment edited 15 minutes after posting

1 upvote

As "DaSigmaGuy", you should know that this is a niche product for people who appreciate primes. Let the others fool around with the not-compact-and-not-DSLR EVILs, they've got that covered. Sigma, Ricoh, and Fuji are the only ones who get this market.

3 upvotes

'I liked my DP1 but 2.8 for a prime is not a fast lens anymore in 2012'

For the market this camera is aimed at (the one previous DP1/DP2 users used the camera for), why would you need anything faster than f2.8?

If you need faster and don't mind sacrificing that Fovean Sensor quality then treat yourself to a DSLR, a 4/3rds or a NEX (good luck finding a cheap fast lens there!) ... but as a previous user, you should know theres nothing out there that can compete with this (fovean sensor in a pocket sized body!)

1 upvote

@howaboutraw: yes for sure why not its in the range of other big sensor compacts, you think anyone would buy a camera with a built in f2.8 lens? if it would be ff its allready pretty slow, but for apsc? whats that lens spec then? dof like f/5.6 and speed like f/4 ?^^

0 upvotes

It seems the uninitiated P&S brigade only look at megapixels and the know-it-all DSLR fraternity only look at f numbers.

Learn how to use the various camera's and lenses properly please people!

1 upvote

that's pretty quick for a wide angle lens. I just wished the DP2 had a faster lens even if it sacrifices IQ like distortion and CA so that it can be more useful indoors or at night.
yet, I think, the "VPS" modes will help alleviate that.

0 upvotes

@DaSigmaGuy This is a camera for people who appreciate IQ in their shots, not for people who are test shooting. Faster lenses need often trade off IQ, and price and weight increases. Why do that if you stop down anyway? Pls have a look at Leica M lenses and you will easily find out that a DPx fits several times into with a fixed lens attached. Heck, similar to Sigma DSLR lenses, the DPx lenses, especially this of the DP1 are better, and cheaper with means the cam comes for free!

0 upvotes

Calls himself dasigmaguy and from what he says, seems like he's never even owned one!!!!

0 upvotes

I would pay 1000$ for a 1.8 lens on that baby. The sensor is incredible and just needs a bright lens to go with it under low light conditions. Who cares about interchangeable lens if you've got a great product.

0 upvotes

Now this is cool stuff. While Nikon grab all the headlines with there latest tanks and Fuji and Olympus slog it out over the Retro Chic market, these Sigma's might well go unnoticed yet again. Which is a shame.

I know when I'm not shooting professionally, the last thing I want to carry is an DSLR kit.

At the same time my Ricoh GR3 is a great pocket camera, it doesn't quite deliver the IQ I'm used to so I may well take a closer look at one of the new Sigma's.

3 upvotes

As an owner of a few cameras, I think that the Ricoh GXR with 28mm module might be a good alternative to the GRD III for you. You get all the Ricoh build quality and ergonomics, and much better image quality. As good as current aps-c DSLR's, actually. The new Sigmas will be considerably larger that the GXR due to the protruding lens, so they are not really pocket cameras.

I have the GRD III, GXR and two DP cameras, so I have some basis for comparison. Having said that I am keenly interested in at least one of the new Sigmas, as I love the image quality. I just won't think of it as a pocket camera.

0 upvotes

Total comments: 243


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